So...the Oceanic 6 are celebrities. Which means, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Nadia (whom we've seen numerous other times in the show wandering about the world) would know about it. So...where is she in all this? It seemed to me like Sayid was still completely unaware that she was even still alive, as he was in bed with another woman. Given, he slept with Elsa while on business, but he obviously cared for her, too. This would never have happened if Sayid was with Nadia. He would have simply carried out his orders.

So, I ask again...where is Nadia?

I dunno. Maybe we'll see her in another FF. Wasn't she running from the gov't? Maybe she's still in hiding.

I dunno. Maybe we'll see her in another FF. Wasn't she running from the gov't? Maybe she's still in hiding.

I remember they showed her when Locke was reading the meter on her house in America, and then she was the woman who called Charlie a hero in England. She's obviously running around the world for some reason. I just can't figure why she wouldn't have contacted Sayid right away.
100%
I dunno. Maybe we'll see her in another FF. Wasn't she running from the gov't? Maybe she's still in hiding.

Plus, she would care more about the fact that Sayid was alive and easy to locate. She would have definitely gone to him.

Yeah, if I needed protection, Sayid would be my guy!

I think she'll reappear at just the right time and be intimately involved in Sayid's redemption :)

I think Nadia was killed at some point after Sayid and her were reunited. During the final speech between Ben and Sayid, Ben said something about remember what happened last time you got too close ... Seems like whoever Sayid and Ben are hunting, were involved with Nadia's death and drove him to work with Ben. Just an idea I had at the end of the episode.

I think Nadia was killed at some point after Sayid and her were reunited. During the final speech between Ben and Sayid, Ben said something about remember what happened last time you got too close ... Seems like whoever Sayid and Ben are hunting, were involved with Nadia's death and drove him to work with Ben. Just an idea I had at the end of the episode.

Interesting idea. I don't see any holes in this one. We'll have to wait and see I guess, but it would sure be sad if she died after all this time. It would kinda defeat the purpose of Sayid's character.

She's gone and forgotten by that horndog Sayid.
If the fella didn't clean up so prettily, I'd hold it against him...

OK, I went back- he said "these people don't deserve our sympathies. Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?" Sayid said he used that to recruit me into killing for you. It seems like Nadia would be too far removed from the situation for it to be her. It seems like it would be related to the rescue and the things that are haunting Hurley and Jack.
Then again, who on the island does Sayid care that much about? I would say Kate, but she's one of the O6.
Then again, he's doing the killing to protect his "friendS", so he must care about them quite a bit! - inaddtion to getting revenge for something!

Nadia's last words to Sayid before her escape were "see you in a different life, if not this one."
There was one time he thought with his heart instead of his gun. When the American general, (Kate's dad) showed him footage of his village being gassed. Sayid's emotional response is what swayed him to become a torturer.
What Ben is talking about could also be something that happened between the time we last see Sayid on the island and tonights FF.

So...the Oceanic 6 are celebrities. Which means, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Nadia (whom we've seen numerous other times in the show wandering about the world) would know about it. So...where is she in all this? It seemed to me like Sayid was still completely unaware that she was even still alive, as he was in bed with another woman. Given, he slept with Elsa while on business, but he obviously cared for her, too. This would never have happened if Sayid was with Nadia. He would have simply carried out his orders.

So, I ask again...where is Nadia?


In "Solitary" didnt Sayid tell Danielle that Nadia was dead?

In "Solitary" didnt Sayid tell Danielle that Nadia was dead?

Nadia is still alive and seen in Charlie's and Locke's flashbacks. I don't remember if Sayid said he thinks she's alive or dead though.

Elsa looked to me like a blonde Nadia, btw.

Ben told Sayid he made the mistake of caring in the past - Was Nadia recruited by Abaddon?

'Cause he's busy being a killing machine for Ben? ;)

I think that though Sayid loves Nadia, there are more important things going on for him right now; mainly protecting the people of Oceanic 815. Obviously something sinister enough is going on for Sayid to be working with Ben.

'Cause he's busy being a killing machine for Ben? ;)

I think that though Sayid loves Nadia, there are more important things going on for him right now; mainly protecting the people of Oceanic 815. Obviously something sinister enough is going on for Sayid to be working with Ben.

I completely agree. Sayid is still a soldier albeit now in a smaller, more personal, maybe even more morally ambiguous war. He wouldn't want Nadia to be involved in such a life. I'm thinking he's figured out that she's alive, maybe visited her, and possibly she is waiting for him to be finished with his mission to be actually linked with him.

Man, Sayid was so interesting, hot, and dangerous last night. It was good stuff.

Not sure why, as there is no hard evidence, but I strongly feel that Nadia and Naomi are somehow related.
Biologically related (as in sisters/cousins)doesn't make total sense as one is from the Arab world and one is from Britain......
BUT
there is some physical resemblance
both are strong, fighter women
both travel all over the world

Like others I'm going with the theory that either Nadia was killed by the people he is now killing off (thus driving him towards Ben) or she is being held by Ben as collateral as it were (I prefer the first theory).

The Sayid we saw was lacking in a soul I feel. Only a terrible terrible loss could explain it IMO.

I also think that Nadia is dead and that Ben's comments in the final scene with Sayid are in reference to her. I think only something as traumatic as her death and the need to prevent the rest of his friends from suffering the same fate could make Sayid become an assassin.

Is it possible that Nadia had met someone else and was married by the time Sayid returned? When Sayid got on the plane, he didn't know anything about her life just that she was alive and living in California. Just throwing it out there. I'm leaning more towards the Nadia being dead theory though.

With all those "why isn't Nadia on Sayid's FF?", I thought about it for a while.

This is a quote from the last scene:

Ben: Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?

Sayid: You used that to recruit me to killing for you.

--

So, isn't it possible that Ben has Nadia hostage (or threatening Sayid to hurt her) to order Sayid to kill for him ?

It's very possible.

I think Nadia is alive and Ben knows where she is, or in fact has her, It wouldn't surprise me if he has shown Sayid a video or arranged an in person meeting. Sayid will do anything to see his love again. Here comes a weird side note, somehow I think Sayid is the person who was in the coffin that Jack visited. He alienated everyone when Ben pulled him to the dark side. They know he is coming now and eventually killed him?

Hmmm, maybe?!
Maybe he swooned another girl while trying to obtain information
on the economist. This resulted in Nadia being harmed somehow.
I wonder if she is alive.

I think Nadia is part of the same group as the Freighties and Abbadon, a group which I think is the umbrella organization which Dharma was part of. Sayid trusted her about something, and it cost him.

Ben told Sayid he made the mistake of caring in the past - Was Nadia recruited by Abaddon?

I completely agree. Sayid is still a soldier albeit now in a smaller, more personal, maybe even more morally ambiguous war. He wouldn't want Nadia to be involved in such a life. I'm thinking he's figured out that she's alive, maybe visited her, and possibly she is waiting for him to be finished with his mission to be actually linked with him.

Man, Sayid was so interesting, hot, and dangerous last night. It was good stuff.

I think that Nadia is who Sayid made a mistake with when he "thought with his heart instead of his gun..."

Now how this connects to Nadia, I don't know but it does seem that she is no longer around and whatever happened when Sayid thought with his heart has caused him great pain...enough to sell his soul!!!!

I think it's a fair theory to say that Nadia is dead and Sayid has sold his soul...

Whatever is going on, here's to seeing more Sayid the badass...that was awesome!!!!!

In "Solitary" didnt Sayid tell Danielle that Nadia was dead?

Yes, but according to both "The Greater Good" and "Exodus, Part 2", he was on his way to Los Angeles to meet Nadia when Oceanic 815 crashed. He sure still seemed to be under the impression that Nadia was alive when he boarded the plane, so unless he received new information regarding her status after the plane took off, he was lying to Rousseau.

In the beginning of the episode I thought that maybe he had been looking for Nadia. I knew it was a flashforward and was thinking that would be the first thing that he would do if he got off of the island. I can't wait to see a reunion between the two of them. i want to see that almost as much as Desmond and Penny reuniting.

I definitely think Nadia is part of Sayid's motivation, which Ben is taking advantage of.

I think that Sayid is killing people for Ben so that he will tell him where to find Nadia. This would clash with Ben's given reason Sayid is working for him, to protect his friends left on the island, presumably.

Let's look at the evidence of Sayid's behavior:

I. Nadia
- He was a torturer who was used to extract information from political prisoners in Iraq. To complicate matters the young love of his life is captured as an enemy of the government. He tries to fit into his role in the army, but in the end his heart wins out. He risks his own life, kills a comrade, and sets her free.

Result: Heart wins.

II. Australia
- He is set up as a pawn by American officials to smoke out a terrorist cell. He refuses until they use the idea of Nadia against him. He agrees. In the end he convinces his friend to go ahead with the suicide bombing, even though he personally does not agree with it, and his friend is afraid. At the last minute he tries talking his friend out of the situation, but his friend commits suicide. He delays his flight so that he can properly take care of this friend, even though Nadia is "waiting" for him.

Result: Heart wins.

III. Shannon
- He meets this spoiled, bratty girl and eventually falls in love with her. She is shot by accident, and dies in his arms. He has a choice to avenge himself on her killer, but instead chooses not to do so. He makes a comment like, "Then we are both already dead."

Result: Heart wins.

IV. Post Island Hitman - Elsa
- Something happens between Sayid getting onto the helicopter and the time when he is on the golf course where Sayid choose to allign himself with Ben. His new target, the Economist, requires that he seduce the young assistant. She looks quite a bit like Shannon, and she confesses her love for Sayid, as well as her knowledge that he has told her nothing about himself. Just when he says, ok, no more secrets, her phone rings and the mood changes. Laying in bed, Sayid makes a decision. He warns her to leave Berlin, trying to protect her from what he is about to do. She ends up being killed by him, and it's obvious that her death affects him greatly.

Result: Heart wins.

Conclusion in regards to, where is Nadia?
- I think that Sayid will choose to not find Nadia, if she is still alive. Eventually, the List he is after, is going to figure out WHO is hunting them. If they want to get to him they are going to go after people in his life like Nadia. My bet is that Sayid is on the outside talking to no one except Ben. He will avoid anyone who may get caught in the crossfire.
- Why has Sayid aligned himself with Ben? Obviously, we can only guess. But I think it's safe to say that there is a very good reason for what he is doing. He may have been crying over Elsa simply because it was Elsa. Maybe it reminds him of Shannon..... Maybe it reminds him of Nadia and what he has never been able to have. Everytime Sayid tries to let go of his past for love, it backfires, and he is left worse off than before.
100%
Let's look at the evidence of Sayid's behavior:

I. Nadia
- He was a torturer who was used to extract information from political prisoners in Iraq. To complicate matters the young love of his life is captured as an enemy of the government. He tries to fit into his role in the army, but in the end his heart wins out. He risks his own life, kills a comrade, and sets her free.

Result: Heart wins.

II. Australia
- He is set up as a pawn by American officials to smoke out a terrorist cell. He refuses until they use the idea of Nadia against him. He agrees. In the end he convinces his friend to go ahead with the suicide bombing, even though he personally does not agree with it, and his friend is afraid. At the last minute he tries talking his friend out of the situation, but his friend commits suicide. He delays his flight so that he can properly take care of this friend, even though Nadia is "waiting" for him.

Result: Heart wins.

III. Shannon
- He meets this spoiled, bratty girl and eventually falls in love with her. She is shot by accident, and dies in his arms. He has a choice to avenge himself on her killer, but instead chooses not to do so. He makes a comment like, "Then we are both already dead."

Result: Heart wins.

IV. Post Island Hitman - Elsa
- Something happens between Sayid getting onto the helicopter and the time when he is on the golf course where Sayid choose to allign himself with Ben. His new target, the Economist, requires that he seduce the young assistant. She looks quite a bit like Shannon, and she confesses her love for Sayid, as well as her knowledge that he has told her nothing about himself. Just when he says, ok, no more secrets, her phone rings and the mood changes. Laying in bed, Sayid makes a decision. He warns her to leave Berlin, trying to protect her from what he is about to do. She ends up being killed by him, and it's obvious that her death affects him greatly.

Result: Heart wins.

Conclusion in regards to, where is Nadia?
- I think that Sayid will choose to not find Nadia, if she is still alive. Eventually, the List he is after, is going to figure out WHO is hunting them. If they want to get to him they are going to go after people in his life like Nadia. My bet is that Sayid is on the outside talking to no one except Ben. He will avoid anyone who may get caught in the crossfire.
- Why has Sayid aligned himself with Ben? Obviously, we can only guess. But I think it's safe to say that there is a very good reason for what he is doing. He may have been crying over Elsa simply because it was Elsa. Maybe it reminds him of Shannon..... Maybe it reminds him of Nadia and what he has never been able to have. Everytime Sayid tries to let go of his past for love, it backfires, and he is left worse off than before.

I think Nadia is part of the same group as the Freighties and Abbadon, a group which I think is the umbrella organization which Dharma was part of. Sayid trusted her about something, and it cost him.

I think GreatHeights is correct. Even if he doesn't know Naomi, he seemed to recognize her bracelet and also treated her body very reverently. He even seemed to be performing some sort of prayers that I think were connected with her.

Whatever is going on, the absence of Nadia or any mention of her seems glaring to me. I believe she is somehow at the heart of his actions.

Yes, but according to both "The Greater Good" and "Exodus, Part 2", he was on his way to Los Angeles to meet Nadia when Oceanic 815 crashed. He sure still seemed to be under the impression that Nadia was alive when he boarded the plane, so unless he received new information regarding her status after the plane took off, he was lying to Rousseau.

Exactally - although he has said many times that she had died..... he was on his way to LA to meet here.... the entire reason he did the FBI (CIA?) sting in Australia.

I have a hunch he lost her, though Ben, following his heart and not his gun. Ben, you bastard.

Don't you think Sayid is too high profile of a celebrity for Nadia to return to him?

Ben asks Sayid (and I paraphrase) remember what happened last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun...followed by Sayid saying, you used that and took advantage of me...

This tells me that Sayid last thought with his heart and one of his "friends" got killed.

Ben follows up with, These people don't deserve our sympathy and reminds him of the need to continue keeping his friends safe.

Ben always says that he "finds out what people are emotionally attached to and exploits them..."

Who is Sayid most emotionally attached to? Nadia would be my answer.

It's an interesting twist and tough to call but I think there would have to be some serious stuff to keep Sayid from finding Nadia. Even if he didn't want to be found, the fact that the O6 are famous still looms...once she saw him alive, why wouldn't Nadia get in touch with him right away ?

Ben asks Sayid (and I paraphrase) remember what happened last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun...followed by Sayid saying, you used that and took advantage of me...

This tells me that Sayid last thought with his heart and one of his "friends" got killed.

Ben follows up with, These people don't deserve our sympathy and reminds him of the need to continue keeping his friends safe.

Ben always says that he "finds out what people are emotionally attached to and exploits them..."

Who is Sayid most emotionally attached to? Nadia would be my answer.

It's an interesting twist and tough to call but I think there would have to be some serious stuff to keep Sayid from finding Nadia. Even if he didn't want to be found, the fact that the O6 are famous still looms...once she saw him alive, why wouldn't Nadia get in touch with him right away ?


There is no question in my mind. They would get in touch with each other immediately after he got back to the mainland. Nadia was his reason for living, quite literally.

In thinking about Sayid, not only does he have motivation for Nadia, but he has a desire to protect the innocent. Who are the most innocent on the island, Clair's baby and perhaps Chen's.

Ben always says that he "finds out what people are emotionally attached to and exploits them..."

Who is Sayid most emotionally attached to? Nadia would be my answer.

It's an interesting twist and tough to call but I think there would have to be some serious stuff to keep Sayid from finding Nadia. Even if he didn't want to be found, the fact that the O6 are famous still looms...once she saw him alive, why wouldn't Nadia get in touch with him right away ?

It's clear that Sayid would try to find Nadia, but we've never seen Nadia being aware that Sayid is looking for her. He helped her escape prison and that was it. She seems to have made her own life by the time Locke crossed paths with her.
So it's not a given that she would seek him out with the Oceanic 6 publicity. Some people think things should remain in the past. (or in the next life, in her case.)

By the way, I think her appearance in Charlie's flashback was before her appearance in Locke's because Charlie's was from way back before Driveshaft hit it big - he was busking under his own name. Although I guess we don't have a good way of dating Locke's Tustin flashback where Cooper faked his death, but it seemed to be not long before TMFT flashback where he confronted him and was thrown out the window, becoming paralyzed for, what 4 years before coming to the island?

But I'm sure Ben's reference was to Nadia somehow and he's threatened to harm her in order to get Sayid to do his bidding.

Perhaps Nadia is on the island.............

If we just consider Locke's FB with Nadia, it's been at least 4 years that she's been in the U.S. It's very possible that she has made a new life, has a family and is very happy. Sayid may learn of this or even witness it with his own eyes when he returns. I don't think he would break up a happy home. I can see him looking sad and walking away before she ever sees him.

As for the remark that Ben made about "remember what happened the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun, it came right on the heels of the scene where Sayid suggests they take Naomi's body back to the freighter. While Sayid has a violent past he is still a very caring and compassionate man, does consider the other Losties his friends and even prayed for Naomi whom he barely knew. I think something goes terribly wrong when they get to the freighter and Sayid is not able to help rescue the rest of his friends. In fact, as each of the O6 get rescued I think they are off the island for good (until Jack finds a way to bring them all back). This would be devastating to Sayid, whom I believe has been slowly shedding his tortured past and evolving into a much more "diplomatic" individual.

Something horrible happens on the island, Sayid feels responsible as he did with Nadia's torturing, and along comes Ben with a "solution." ;)

If we just consider Locke's FB with Nadia, it's been at least 4 years that she's been in the U.S. It's very possible that she has made a new life, has a family and is very happy. Sayid may learn of this or even witness it with his own eyes when he returns. I don't think he would break up a happy home. I can see him looking sad and walking away before she ever sees him.
This could be. But she did tell Locke that she didn't have a husband, so maybe there's hope for Sayid. I would love to see a reunion scene, and it's bound to be bittersweet no matter what.

This could be. But she did tell Locke that she didn't have a husband, so maybe there's hope for Sayid. I would love to see a reunion scene, and it's bound to be bittersweet no matter what.

I think she did say that, too. But it's been at least 4 years, maybe longer since after Locke's fall he goes to work for the box company. I can't remember how long he worked there before going to Australia. Maybe another year? I'm thinking she moved on. Then she would have heard of the 815 crash and subsequent announcement that all had died.

But I'm with you - I'd love a reunion, too. After all Sayid's been through I feel he deserves some happiness at last. I don't like seeing him revert back to his old ways. :mad:

There has been some talk of the lines "these people don't deserve our sympathies. Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?" and that this somehow relates to Nadia.

I have a feeling that these lines relate to something about Namoi? Does anyone else think that Sayid seems to recognise Namoi? When these lines are said we cut to Sayid looking at her (as well as the other times he seems upset by her death) - Sayid is hardened to the deaths of people he knows, let alone those who he doesn't. He also kept that braclet she had on as we see it in the FF.

Why would the Sayid we saw in The Economist WANT to share his life with Nadia, or anyone? What kind of a life is that? At this point, he has nothing to offer in a relationship. (Well, except glorious eye candy.) He's sold his soul. Besides, hanging around with Sayid would put anyone in great danger.

There has been some talk of the lines "these people don't deserve our sympathies. Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?" and that this somehow relates to Nadia.

I have a feeling that these lines relate to something about Namoi? Does anyone else think that Sayid seems to recognise Namoi? When these lines are said we cut to Sayid looking at her (as well as the other times he seems upset by her death) - Sayid is hardened to the deaths of people he knows, let alone those who he doesn't. He also kept that braclet she had on as we see it in the FF.

I love your name...I'm assuming that's the miawallace from one of my favorite movies?

Back on topic, I do think that Sayid has some reason to be so touched by the death of Naomi...haven't figured that out yet. I do not think that is what Ben is referring to when he mentions "thinking with your heart instead of your gun" though...he was on the beach and couldn't have done anything about Locke killing Naomi even if he wanted to.

Why would the Sayid we saw in The Economist WANT to share his life with Nadia, or anyone? What kind of a life is that? At this point, he has nothing to offer in a relationship. (Well, except glorious eye candy.) He's sold his soul. Besides, hanging around with Sayid would put anyone in great danger.

This is exactly why I think that the mistake sayid made..."thinking with your heart instead of your gun"...was about Nadia.

He no longer has anything to give in a relationship...and has sold his soul...and that's why...he's got no reason to care about love anymore because these people took his reason to care away. That's my take anyway...

In "Solitary" didnt Sayid tell Danielle that Nadia was dead?
Sure, and Sayid told Ana-Lucia, "We're already dead", probably referencing the plane at the bottom of the sea. Sayid and Nadia are secret agents; they probably never had any real attachment to each other, it was just for show.

Robert

Sure, and Sayid told Ana-Lucia, "We're already dead", probably referencing the plane at the bottom of the sea. Sayid and Nadia are secret agents; they probably never had any real attachment to each other, it was just for show.

Robert

That's either based on some serious spoiler info or you are REALLY going out on a limb with that theory!

Secret Agents huh? Do tell!:confused:

Ben is holding something over Sayid's head. Whether he is holding Nadia captive, playing on Sayid's guilt about situations surrounding those left behind or something completely different that has yet to be introduced, Ben has control over Sayid. He still has the ability to feel and love as is displayed in the cases of Naomi and Elsa. However, he has a job to do and I doubt he would contact Nadia until that job was done. He would not want to put her life in jeopardy.

As for her finding him, I would think he's been keeping a low profile while he's been traveling from place to place killing people. You don't really want to be too visible while committing murder, right?

OK, I went back- he said "these people don't deserve our sympathies. Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?" Sayid said he used that to recruit me into killing for you. It seems like Nadia would be too far removed from the situation for it to be her. It seems like it would be related to the rescue and the things that are haunting Hurley and Jack.
Then again, who on the island does Sayid care that much about? I would say Kate, but she's one of the O6.
Then again, he's doing the killing to protect his "friendS", so he must care about them quite a bit! - inaddtion to getting revenge for something!

Someone he did care about on the island was Shannon, who was shot in front of him by Ana Lucia.

"Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?"
Then Sayid said something along the lines of "That's what you used to recruit me to kill for you."

So I would guess that something happened with Nadia, before this. She is perhaps even dead, and Ben manipulated the situation to get Sayid to work for him.

Then Sayid said something along the lines of "That's what you used to recruit me to kill for you."

So I would guess that something happened with Nadia, before this. She is perhaps even dead, and Ben manipulated the situation to get Sayid to work for him.

Maybe it's both - the people who killed Nadia (if that's true) are also a threat to the well being of the Losties. But I think we have to remember the "you want to protect your friends, don't you" line. This has something to do with those left on the island or maybe those who got off the island, the rest of the O6. This is what's motivating Sayid. And why? Because he feels responsible for their present situation and it must be pretty bad for him to become Ben's hit man. I still think he doesn't make it back to help the rest get off and now their lives are in jeopardy if he doesn't kill the people Ben tells him to kill.

[quote=I can't remember how long he worked there before going to Australia. Maybe another year? I'm thinking she moved on. Then she would have heard of the 815 crash and subsequent announcement that all had died. [/quote]

I expect she heard about the crash, also everyone is assuming that Sayid is one of the six. I don't have a dvr did the man on the golf course recognize Sayid or did he become aware of the situation only when Sayid told him he was one of the six.

If he was lying, this would explain his eas of moving around to complete Ben's list and why she hasn't contacted him.

The man on the golf course didn't seem to recognize Sayid until he said he was one of the O6. Then he looked like he just wanted to get the heck out of there. He'd definitely heard of Sayid but it's strange he didn't recognize him if Sayid was such a threat. Maybe Ben's hit list includes people at all levels. :34853_huh:

That's either based on some serious spoiler info or you are REALLY going out on a limb with that theory!

Secret Agents huh? Do tell!:confused:
The vast majority of the characters are secret agents -- con artists collaborating as part of one faction or another.

Secret agents working for who? What are the different factions?

And once again, is this spoiler info or a theory that you have developed? I'm not being a smarta**...I'm just trying to understand.

This is a pretty bold statement to just throw out with no explaination.

Secret agents working for who? What are the different factions?

And once again, is this spoiler info or a theory that you have developed? I'm not being a smarta**...I'm just trying to understand.

This is a pretty bold statement to just throw out with no explaination.

Read in chronologic order here. (http://users.bestweb.net/~robgood/teach)