Just a few thing i noticed from the golf scene. Rain is an interesting thing on the island and we have seen a lot when there has been death. After Sayid kills his target, the sprinklers for the course come on. Kind of odd to be watering a fairway while there are players on the course.

Also, you think wager and the line about everything being more interesting when you have a wager on it? Anyone think that has any relevance to our losties? Perhaps there is a wager between the list people concerning the island. I mean, they all have alot of money. Maybe it is like the movie Rat Race and here the high-powered are betting on who can find the secret of the island first.

Excellent point about the sprinklers. In regard to the wager, I'm not sure what to make of that other than to say that they always focus on game - it's a recurrent theme.

Just a few thing i noticed from the golf scene. Rain is an interesting thing on the island and we have seen a lot when there has been death. After Sayid kills his target, the sprinklers for the course come on.

An interesting comparison. I didn't make that connection. Thanks.

Anyone think that has any relevance to our losties? Perhaps there is a wager between the list people concerning the island.

..or a wager between people about the behavior of people who crashed onto an island, similar to the wager seen in the movie, "Trading Places." Okay, I'm not being serious about that.

...or a wager between people about the behavior of people who crashed onto an island, similar to the wager seen in the movie, "Trading Places." Okay, I'm not being serious about that.

More apt than you give it credit for.

I took the sprinklers as symbolic in a way. Like Sayid needed cleansing. I came to that conclusion later in the episode. When Sayid leaves the resturant and talks on the phone, he tosses the phone in the garbage. Then he picks up snow and rubs it in his hand, like he is trying to wash his hands. just a thought...

I took the sprinklers as symbolic in a way. Like Sayid needed cleansing. I came to that conclusion later in the episode. When Sayid leaves the resturant and talks on the phone, he tosses the phone in the garbage. Then he picks up snow and rubs it in his hand, like he is trying to wash his hands. just a thought...

When I saw who he was working with (for) the picking up the snow made sense. I think he is only doing because he has too. I think he hates Ben and what he's doing but is being forced to do so for the sake of the other 815ers.

Just something that occurred to me. There's no reason why the sprinklers should have come on then. They were golfing at a high-priced country club. High-priced country clubs don't screw things up like that.

Besides being a great visual gag, I think there might have been some meaning to the sprinklers. If someone heard the shot that was fired, turning on the sprinklers would be a good way to identify anyone who was on the golf course at that moment--he would be wet!

I thought that too - maybe because I worked at a golf course for 3 years...sure didn't look like evening time to me! (Which is when you usually see sprinklers on) I think it was just for dramatic effect...possibly some sort of baptism/re-birth symbolism, but I think that might be reaching...

It reminded me of the previous Ep when Locke and his gang walked off and it started pouring down with rain. I think the sprinklers represented whatever it is that rain represents. There always seems to be rain when someone is killed - Ethan, Shannon, Frank in Australia, Pickett . . .

I saw it more as a cleansing-type symbolism. Sayid didn't look as sinister as he does later in the epi, so it seemed he was getting rid of a "bad" person. Or maybe someone that was going to shoot him if he didn't shoot first. I'm not sure if this will play out to be true now that we know Ben seems to be his "boss." :rolleyes:

As for the sprinklers coming on, it was supposed to be very early in the morning. Sayid mentions paying a premium to golf undisturbed at that time.

(OT: early morning is the best time to water grass, not the evening. If you're in a wet or humid climate, evening watering promotes mold and diseases. If you're in a warm and dry climate, early watering allows the water to soak in before the sun can evaporate it.)

There always seems to be rain when someone is killed - Ethan, Shannon, Frank in Australia, Pickett . . .

There wasn't any rain when Pickett was killed.

As for the sprinklers coming on, it was supposed to be very early in the morning. Sayid mentions paying a premium to golf undisturbed at that time.

(OT: early morning is the best time to water grass, not the evening. If you're in a wet or humid climate, evening watering promotes mold and diseases. If you're in a warm and dry climate, early watering allows the water to soak in before the sun can evaporate it.)

Even if it was early in the morning, you still don't water a course when people are playing on it. More people golf in the morning than later in the day, anyway.

kevn,
You're right, I was picturing the scene with Sawyer in the rain, but, of course, that wasn't when he was killed.

we saw this again in the episode when Sayid 'washed' his hands with the snow, after he threw away his cell phone after meeting Elsa..

i think its the writers playing with the theme of cleansing, for sure

I thought this was significant, as well as Sayid picking up a handful of snow and crushing it up in his hands just after tossing the cell phone in the trash.

After discussing it on another forum, I'm inclined to agree with one of their opinions, which was that both were symbolic of cleansing of sin, washing and purification.

To wash away the blood. ;)

Nah, just joking. Personally, I think it was just as an "oh snap" kinda thing.

I loved that effect. Hilariously perfect.

It could mean nothing but this is Lost, so maybe the water is to represent washing away the sins. Then again it isn't holy water so I don't know if regular water would have the same significance?

It could mean nothing but this is Lost, so maybe the water is to represent washing away the sins.
No. Look at how satisfied Sayid was. He's not ashamed, but proud of this kill. No, I think the point was that the streams of water formed multiples of the letter "V", to go with the "victory" theme of season 4 flashforwards so far. See also the red "V" of blood on the wall behind Bond Girl Elsa's back (echoing the diverging lines of blood from Naomi), and the red "VICTORY" on the wall behind Abaddon's back in Santa Rosa. Hugo's victory over Jack in Horse may also be significant.

Robert

Also, you think wager and the line about everything being more interesting when you have a wager on it? Anyone think that has any relevance to our losties? Perhaps there is a wager between the list people concerning the island. I mean, they all have alot of money. Maybe it is like the movie Rat Race and here the high-powered are betting on who can find the secret of the island first.
I do know Damon appreciates at least some of Andy Breckman's work.
100%
I took the sprinklers as symbolic in a way. Like Sayid needed cleansing. I came to that conclusion later in the episode. When Sayid leaves the resturant and talks on the phone, he tosses the phone in the garbage. Then he picks up snow and rubs it in his hand, like he is trying to wash his hands. just a thought...
But that certainly doesn't apply to killing Avelino, which Sayid appeared to enjoy. He even toyed with his quarry. As I'm mentioning in a few places (sorry if this is redundant), I think the point was the sprinklers making Vs as part of the "victory" theme of season 4 flashforward symbolism.

Robert

I took the sprinklers as symbolic in a way. Like Sayid needed cleansing. I came to that conclusion later in the episode. When Sayid leaves the resturant and talks on the phone, he tosses the phone in the garbage. Then he picks up snow and rubs it in his hand, like he is trying to wash his hands. just a thought...

Absolutely on the handwashing - Harrison Ford pulled a similar move in The Fugaitve, handled a gun like it was a dead rat then trashed it and wiped his hands in a subconscious revulsion kind of a way - and the fact the phone went in the garbage didn't escape me either. It was an obviously distasteful call. I'd extend the sprinkler symbolism to include that what Sayid did was cleansing.

I'm steering well clear of V symbolism though - we'll be in danger of discussing the sacred feminine otherwise. lol - and I don't have the energy or inclination.

The wager angle is interesting though - i took the line merely as an indication they were playing - not the golf - for high stakes.

What hand was the phone in?

I just think its a shame to kill a guy just because he beats you at a closer-to-the-pin contest!

(yes, I'm kidding)

I just think its a shame to kill a guy just because he beats you at a closer-to-the-pin contest!

(yes, I'm kidding)

ok roflmao :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
this was am awesome episide imo and i think the signifances of the sprinklers and the cleansing in the snow are of his distaste for what he is having to do. He will want to go back too.

What hand was the phone in?

When Sayid phoned Ben and then threw the phone away, he held the phone in his left hand. He also played golf left-handed (and had a proper set of left-handed clubs), but seemed to do everything else, including shooting people, right handed.

Very odd.

I took the sprinklers as symbolic in a way. Like Sayid needed cleansing. I came to that conclusion later in the episode. When Sayid leaves the resturant and talks on the phone, he tosses the phone in the garbage. Then he picks up snow and rubs it in his hand, like he is trying to wash his hands. just a thought...
i thought it looked like the sprinklers had been 'arranged' to come on, in the same way that the course was very quiet seemed to be by design. would the sprinklers not cover sayids tracks?

Just a few thing i noticed from the golf scene. Rain is an interesting thing on the island and we have seen a lot when there has been death. After Sayid kills his target, the sprinklers for the course come on. Kind of odd to be watering a fairway while there are players on the course.

Also, you think wager and the line about everything being more interesting when you have a wager on it? Anyone think that has any relevance to our losties? Perhaps there is a wager between the list people concerning the island. I mean, they all have alot of money. Maybe it is like the movie Rat Race and here the high-powered are betting on who can find the secret of the island first.

golf courses to this all the time. i have had to play around sprinklers lots of times. they are usually on a timer and often watering the course takes priority over players comfort since dead grass = bad course. also, they don't water at night or end of the day because it promotes disease.

Just a thought, what if Sayid's "toying" with Avellino was because the group Sayid is after are in turn trying to get rid of the 6 . Sayid would then be more inclined to "work for Ben" even if he couldn't stand the man.

I don't know... However I thought for even greater effect, Sayid should have dropped the $100 on the body as he walked past. Okay, maybe a little corny. ;]

When Sayid phoned Ben and then threw the phone away, he held the phone in his left hand. He also played golf left-handed (and had a proper set of left-handed clubs), but seemed to do everything else, including shooting people, right handed.

Very odd.

I thought it was his left :biggrin: but I confuse left and right so easily I couldn't be sure even while watching it. :rolleyes: Makes a lot of sense actually as we had Sayid's faith reinforced this epi.

In Christianity the left hand does the work of the Devil.

my first thought of the sprinklers was a cleansing scene, same as the phone.
he washed away the "sin".. so to speak.