WTF Uno: Erm... isn't she supposed to be worried about a very possible pregnancy with a guy she was sleeping with 48 hours prior? Must the other guy she's batting her eyelashes at keep reminding her that so as to stop her attempts at flirting? Ew.

WTF Dos: When Sawyer asked her why she's so anxious to get off the Island... How about... Oh, I don't know "Cause I'm in a bad version of Meangirls and sex means I'll get pregnant and DIE?"

Ummm.....Is this in the right thread? Seems more like a character/shipper post?

I don't care if it gets moved, but I'm talking about a situation that pertains to this episode in particular.

I'm just curious to see if anyone else is confounded by the writing with this character in this episode.

A couple of weeks ago there was a thread about Vincent and it didn't get moved to the Vincent forum so I wasn't aware of the strict delineation.

I don't do ships. ;)

Sawyer did raise a good point that Kate is wanted out in the world and has handcuffs waiting for her. Doesn't seem like she's thought of that.

Well they are obviously still wanting to continue this strange romance and I think Sawyer really does want Kate to stay. He's being selfish and probably isn't thinking about the ramifications of her actually staying. I'm sure the stuff you were speaking of will come up in the near future, especially if they are going to have sex again, which looks like they are from the scenes of the next episode.

Sawyer did raise a good point that Kate is wanted out in the world and has handcuffs waiting for her. Doesn't seem like she's thought of that.

Doesn't very likely death trump that though? Or isn't it at least the first thing you'd mention when asked why you want off the Island?

Doesn't very likely death trump that though? Or isn't it at least the first thing you'd mention when asked why you want off the Island?
I know a the pregnancy issue is an immediate concern, but I wondered all last season when someone would mention the fact that Kate will be on trial or in jail when she gets back to the world. They've been running around talking about rescue but never confronted the fact that when Kate gets rescued it will be the end of freedom. And I know that part of Sawyer raising it was that he wanted her to stay.

Besides the pregnancy thing, who said that Kate and Sawyer could play house at the others villiage? Sayer said something about "We have a roof over our heads and running water and electricity etc." So they've (the Others) abandoned their nice houses forever? They will just let Kate and Sawyer move right in? Maybe they could have Picket and Colleen's house. :rolleyes: Only a few days ago the Others were trying to kill Sawyer and kept Kate hostage. Not to mention Sawyer just blew one of them away. Seems a bit sketchy and presumputious of Sawyer to think they'd never come back. If Sawyer wanted to stay on the island, he'd probably be sleeping under a tarp, out in the jungle, down by the river, :lipsseal: avoiding Smokey!

He didn 't say it was forever, he admitted he didn't know how long they could play house but wanted to give it a try. And apparently Kate agreed.

Well they are obviously still wanting to continue this strange romance and I think Sawyer really does want Kate to stay. He's being selfish and probably isn't thinking about the ramifications of her actually staying. I'm sure the stuff you were speaking of will come up in the near future, especially if they are going to have sex again, which looks like they are from the scenes of the next episode.

hey buddy,.. you may want to spoiler-font that last part of your post! ;)

I know she's not that bright, but still... Conception on the Island KILLS. If someone were to ask Sun why she wanted to get off the Island, I'm assuming the first choice of an answer would not be: "Cause my Daddy's loaded and this Island is full of mosquitoes and I miss my 500 pairs of shoes." Nor can I imagine Jin asking why rescue is so important for Sun.

So both Kate and Sawyer fear she might be pregnant and are well aware of the fact that she is going to die if she stays on the Island.

Normal reaction:


KATE: You know. They sent Juliet to check out Sun, but she was there to check and see if I'm pregnant too.
SAWYER: Well let's hope you're not.


WTF reaction:

SAWYER: Why do you want to get off the Island?

KATE: ............................................

But in the last episode Kate seemed to be pretty sure that she wasn't pregnant. She told Sawyer as much, to which he reacted and said "Good."
Now, I don't know why that could be, but there are a couple of reasons why Kate could be sure she can't become pregnant. Medical issues is the first that come to mind. Maybe she can't conceive, so the whole 'pregnant women die'-issue wouldn't be a reason for her to want to leave the island. Maybe that's why she didn't bring it up.

I agree with Claudia. I was kind of dumbfounded by Kate in this episode. I don't know how they can realistically do what Sawyer is saying when A) sex could kill her and B) there's a big conflict going on right now that needs to be resolved before anything else. Oh, and C) many others including the only doctor on the island are leaving (likely) so if the does get pregnant in the future she has no choice but to sit around and wait to die!

However, I do see Sawyer's point about Kate (I always wondered why she wanted to leave at all) as she has perhaps the biggest motive to not rejoin civilization.

Kate doesn't seem to be able to hold down a firm opinion or side on anything for very long. She needs to think about what she really wants here, instead of flipping back so easily between having a helicopter in front of her to staying on the island indefinitely and playing house. ..That's a pretty big change.

I think the idea of rescue is making Sawyer take a good hard look at his life. He did just kill his main enemy, after all, when he took out "Mr. Sawyer." I think for the first time in his life, he has found a sort of family. He even seems to like Jack now. So he's ready to stay. Kate, being Kate, can't handle the idea of staying in one place forever. Poor Sawyer. I would live on the island in a little hut with him any day.

hey buddy,.. you may want to spoiler-font that last part of your post! ;)

Yeah I realized that after I did it and meant to go back to do that but just forgot...sorry dude....thanks for warning!!

I like the fact that Sawyer doesn't want to go back to the life he was living. Conning his way from one town to the next isn't something he has any interest in any more, and that's a good thing. I think it's a valid question to ask Kate if she wants to go back to the life she was living... wanted by the law, on the run at best. Fair question, and certainly one that Kate needs to address but hasn't as yet.

Kate looked very confused when he was talking to her. And yes, the issue of being pregnant with his baby should always be forefront in her mind. She has no idea what she wants. Im hoping that she knows she isnt pregnant, although when on the island sperm is quadrupled, theres a huge chance she is. So Im also hoping she knows she cant have babies, maybe realizing it when she found out she wasnt pregnant with Kevins baby.

So basically Im either hoping she was confused or hoping she knows she cant get pregnant.

And now Im confused.:blink:

Kate, being Kate, can't handle the idea of staying in one place forever.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with this one! :)

I like the fact that Sawyer doesn't want to go back to the life he was living. Conning his way from one town to the next isn't something he has any interest in any more, and that's a good thing. I think it's a valid question to ask Kate if she wants to go back to the life she was living... wanted by the law, on the run at best. Fair question, and certainly one that Kate needs to address but hasn't as yet.


Even though Sawyer is definitely being himself this season, you can also notice a pretty big change in him. He seems to be growing out of this phase of being angry at everyone and everything...he almost seems to be growing up in a way. Like I said he's still himself, arguing with John about what to do, beating the crap out of Ben, but he seems more compassionate this season and like he actually for once cares about what happens to him. It seems like almost his whole life he has lived with the attitude that he doesn't really care if he dies because he has nothing to lose and doesn't really have anything to live for. But now he has this place and these things that have happened that have had a major impact on him, and there's his love for Kate, and he has an opportunity on the island to actually be someone he never was before and do things he would have never even thought about doing back in the real world, like helping people and being a true friend, not conning people. Sawyer is coming around and I really like where they are taking his character this season. KUDOS to Sawyer and the writers!!!!

I think the idea of rescue is making Sawyer take a good hard look at his life. He did just kill his main enemy, after all, when he took out "Mr. Sawyer." I think for the first time in his life, he has found a sort of family. He even seems to like Jack now. So he's ready to stay. Kate, being Kate, can't handle the idea of staying in one place forever. Poor Sawyer. I would live on the island in a little hut with him any day.

Agreed. This is probably the closest Sawyer has ever come in his adult life to fitting into a community. And he does not want to go back to his old way of life.

Sawyer isn't ready to accept responsibility for his actions pre-island. He wants to put his head and the sand and pretend that he's just a "normal" person. Sorta if I stay here I don't have to face the realities of the "real world"
He wants Kate to stay too because he doesn't want her to become an adult and grow up.
Just mho

He wants Kate to stay too because he doesn't want her to become an adult and grow up.

Sawyer is much farther along the road to adulthood than she is anyway. Regardless, if it weren't for the whole pregnancy scare, I'd say he wants her to stay because he loves her and doesn't want to see her go to the slammer.

But the pregnancy scare IS there and has been addressed before so... does he also want to see her dead? I don't think so, which is why I think this is contrived and inconsistent with what we've been shown in previous episodes, but then again, Contrived and Kate tend to happen a lot in the same storyline.

Characters forgetting what motivated them three episodes ago is inconsistent writing.

first of all, she did not agree whatsoever to whatever Sawyer offered her. she's just hearing him out for now, coz they havent talk ever since the 'lets-hope-your-not' pregnant convo.

some people are already assuming she did, but i didnt even see the possibility of that happening based on this episode and given the fact that she got off the island based on the flashforwards.

secondly, maybe the reason she didnt answer back when Sawyer asked her why she wanted to leave the island because IMO she was giving the look 'You wouldn't understand even if i told you..' .. and after being told by the man possibly responsible for getting her pregnant that he hopes she's NOT, what do you expect her to feel. she probably is afraid to discuss it with him for now.


or maybe, as Kerstin80 said, she already know that she isnt/couldnt get pregnant ..

I don't think she knows she can't get pregnant, cause in their discussion in TTLG Kate says something along the lines of "that means I might be pregnant too" before Sawyer's "let's hope you're not". Kate seemed genuinely nervous/ scared when she said that. I doubt she would have said it at all if she already knew it was impossible.

Plus, Sun and Jin have already proven that infertility is no match for the island.

Sawyer is much farther along the road to adulthood than she is anyway. Regardless, if it weren't for the whole pregnancy scare, I'd say he wants her to stay because he loves her and doesn't want to see her go to the slammer.

But the pregnancy scare IS there and has been addressed before so... does he also want to see her dead? I don't think so, which is why I think this is contrived and inconsistent with what we've been shown in previous episodes, but then again, Contrived and Kate tend to happen a lot in the same storyline.

Characters forgetting what motivated them three episodes ago is inconsistent writing.

Completely agree with you here Claudia. Kate's reaction here is another example of poor continuity and character reversal that was evident in this episode. Glad you pointed this one out, I was stuck on the other ones!;)

secondly, maybe the reason she didnt answer back when Sawyer asked her why she wanted to leave the island because IMO she was giving the look 'You wouldn't understand even if i told you..' ..

He already DOES cause he was standing right there next to her when they played Juliet's tape for Ben, he was right there when Kate asked Juliet in GH if they were coming to test them and most importantly, because HE was being the smart one again in TTLG basically asking her: "What, I'm supposed to be happy that you're gonna DIE?"

what do you expect her to feel. she probably is afraid to discuss it with him for now.

Already happened. So what do I expect? A little continuity that would not require the little impulsive lady having to be reminded by her gentleman that she's a wanted fugitive (seriously? How am I supposed to believe that she survived on the run for three years) and still allow THAT issue to be addressed without whitewashing the other. Kate could have said, for instance: "I know I'm going to jail, but I'd rather take my chances on the run again than live in this place. I don't want to DIE, dude!"

I wondered why she didn't bring it up too. But then I remembered it's only been 2 days since she found out, and there is so much more to learn about the Oceanic 6. We'll probably get some confirmation yay or nay next week. I can wait.

And who's to say they aren't using protection now that they are staying in the Others' village. I have faith in the writers they'll address it.

Kate is not mysterious or bipolar, she's just badly written to keep the drama and the triangle alive.

Who cares what Kate decides in this episode. We all know she ends up off island in the future.

Who cares what Kate decides in this episode. We all know she ends up off island in the future.

Yes, but it's this episode we're discussing, not future episodes. Plus, Kate's behavior with Sawyer isn't completely within character. Kate talked about the possible pregnancy before this, so why not now when Sawyer asks her about leaving the island? Kate's been all about getting off the island from the beginning, so why have her hesitate here when she has an absolute legitimate reason to leave, because she could die if she is pregnant or if she ever becomes pregnant.

Just a thoought while reading this.....we never really found out what was discussed when Kate had breakfast with Ben and he made her put on a dress. Could she be staying because of Ben? Could she have a untold deal with Ben we don't even know about? I refuse to believe it was all just to make her look "pretty" that he made her wear that dress.

Just a thoought while reading this.....we never really found out what was discussed when Kate had breakfast with Ben and he made her put on a dress. Could she be staying because of Ben? Could she have a untold deal with Ben we don't even know about? I refuse to believe it was all just to make her look "pretty" that he made her wear that dress.

Not quite sure I understand. Stay where? We already know she gets off the island.

Just a thoought while reading this.....we never really found out what was discussed when Kate had breakfast with Ben and he made her put on a dress. Could she be staying because of Ben? Could she have a untold deal with Ben we don't even know about? I refuse to believe it was all just to make her look "pretty" that he made her wear that dress.

Yes, that's very interesting! Maybe Ben is the "he" Kate refers to off-island when she says to Jack "He'll be wondering where I am". Maybe she's working for him or maybe he already had arrangements for her to leave...

What is with all the Kate bashing?!

NO, Ben did not do anything to her after breakfast!:rant:

Kate IS NOT A POORLY WRITTEN CHARACTER! SHE IS GREAT! Sawyer is just treating her POORLY!!

Not quite sure I understand. Stay where? We already know she gets off the island.

Sorry....why she stayed at otherville with Sawyer and why she went in the first place. Sayid didn't ask her to come. Sawyer would not have made her stay if she didn't want to.............I think that's why he was trying to tell her to be quiet at first.

I think she has a deal in place with Ben already.

Yes, that's very interesting! Maybe Ben is the "he" Kate refers to off-island when she says to Jack "He'll be wondering where I am". Maybe she's working for him or maybe he already had arrangements for her to leave...

I agree with this 100%. I think she made her deal way back when she had breakfast with Ben all those episodes ago. I bet her and Sayid have some kind of deal with Ben that Jack and Hurley chose not to take.

The writers have confirmed repeatedly that there is NOTHING more in that scene than we've already seen. There are about two dozen questions to Gregg Nations on this topic and even an answer from Darlton themselves (don't remember if it was interview or podcast). So guess what it was really about? Yep. Stupid triangle drama, using BEN of all interesting characters to make soap opera commentary.

I agree with this 100%. I think she made her deal way back when she had breakfast with Ben all those episodes ago. I bet her and Sayid have some kind of deal with Ben that Jack and Hurley chose not to take.

Well, there's a least three of us then.:biggrin:

The writers have confirmed repeatedly that there is NOTHING more in that scene than we've already seen. There are about two dozen questions to Gregg Nations on this topic and even an answer from Darlton themselves (don't remember if it was interview or podcast). So guess what it was really about? Yep. Stupid triangle drama, using BEN of all interesting characters to make soap opera commentary.

Maybe there was nothing else to that particular scene, but I still don't believe that Ben does things for no reason. It could be a lead up to something he does later...something we haven't seen yet. I think that more than just creating drama, the writers may have wanted to let us see a potential for something in the future between Kate and Ben. Maybe they were just leaving a door open....

What is with all the Kate bashing?!

NO, Ben did not do anything to her after breakfast!:rant:

Kate IS NOT A POORLY WRITTEN CHARACTER! SHE IS GREAT! Sawyer is just treating her POORLY!!

Adam, every poster is allowed to voice his or her opinion on the matter, whether you agree with it or not - we are talking about opinions here, after all, there is no right or wrong...

What is with all the Kate bashing?!
NO, Ben did not do anything to her after breakfast!:rant:
Kate IS NOT A POORLY WRITTEN CHARACTER! SHE IS GREAT! Sawyer is just treating her POORLY!!
I don't think she's a poorly written character necessarily, I just don't like her character. That's my bias. Obviously your bias runs the other way (at least you give slight hints to that! ;) )!
And I know that Sawyer behaves very badly sometimes, but why in this instance do you think he's treating her poorly?

BTW, was anybody else surprised that Kate ratted out Sawyer so quickly when he came in? Not a lot of loyalty there.

Kate is not mysterious or bipolar, she's just badly written to keep the drama and the triangle alive.

Thank you. And the eyelash batting thing was pretty embarassing...

Thank you. And the eyelash batting thing was pretty embarassing...

That was my WTF #1, although that's not a continuity screwup, au contraire.

I'm a woman in my midtwenties and I have enough friends who are Kate's age. I have yet to understand though why the writers think ANY 27 yr. old woman would go through this timeline:

*2 weeks ago: finds out pregnancy kills due to SuperSperm (yeah, that's one of LOST's classier storylines :rolleyes: ) Jack is standing right there next to her when they find out and she knows he knows there's a very good chance that she's pregnant.

* the day after, sees Jack omg!having dinner with Juliet and when the refined method of seduction by Licking The Oatmeal Spoon fails, goes to jump Sawyer with tears in her eyes, despite being aware of the Meangirls scenario.

*continues to do so up until 72 hours ago.

*48 hours ago, bickers with Sawyer in front of Jack and Jack wants to make her feel better and defends Sawyer to her, basically saying, I know your guy loves you cause I do too, I can relate and he's just trying to protect you so cut him some slack. (But not before she gets a dig in at Sawyer about how he'd never be that noble for Jack... Also classy!)

* Meanwhile, has never said a word to Jack to indicate that: a) she's not pregnant and b) she's not in love with Sawyer

* Present time: is very pouty and disappointed when Jack does not melt at her feet following extreme batting of the eyelashes. Because I guess he was supposed to go: "Hey, Sawyer's out of sight out of mind and there's no danger until the third trimester so... hey baby! :naughty:"

Again, I must say... WHAT?

BTW, was anybody else surprised that Kate ratted out Sawyer so quickly when he came in? Not a lot of loyalty there.

I came into this thread specifically to say that! I was wondering about that, too. Kate really ticked me off when she did that. In my opinion, Sawyer is trying to keep her from screaming because he probably wanted to warn her that Locke was crazy and give her a chance to get away (since he sneaked in quietly with his finger on his lips) and she immediately screams?

That really confused me. Kate has no reason to be afraid of Sawyer or be un-loyal to him, so I was wondering why she would call out. I know she is mad that he chose another side, but to "get him in trouble" like that by screaming was confusing to me.

That was the one thing Kate did that made sense. She wasn't afraid of Sawyer, she was just trying to warn Sayid that they'd been caught hoping he would have time to get away.

Claudia, there's no logic there. Don't try to understand Kate as a character. Jaters were happy that she flirted with Jack and Skaters were happy that she stayed with Sawyer. They throw bones to the shippers since the begining of the show, stating that Jack and kate are the ultimate relationship, that she made her definite choice in "I do" and it is Sawyer bla bla.
The result is that she doesn't make any sense anymore but looks like shippers are more important than continuity.
It is strange because now that LOST has a end date, they shouldn't pay that much attention to shippers and focus on what's real and continuity.

Kate hasn't chosen to stay with Sawyer - its more like she hung back. She made a decision and that is to get off the island. So, I think she has other agendas; she knows the freighter4 want Ben and she may be looking for an opportunity to get some answers out of him. I think she's been pissed at Sawyer since he 'dissed her on the pregnancy. Even though Kate has been physically involved with Sawyer she isn't emotionally invested in a relationship with him. Sawyer knows she's used him for sex, even called her on it and is okay with it - after all, he's a user too; its how he made his living. Sawyer's never been in a mature relationship with a woman (Casey was closest), but would like to be with Kate. I think his plea got to her a bit and maybe she's also sticking around to see if she can get him to change his mind about leaving - tries to give him a reason to reconsider if the preview is any indication. Pregnant or not, she is NOT going to stick around a make believe village and do taco night for the rest of her life.

So a question is does Sawyer have the guts to leave the island? I mean, Ben called him a nobody in the real world and now he's acting like it - hiding out in Otherville. Is he man enough to make a real commitment to someone he loves, someone with whom he may have fathered another child? He couldn't do it in the past and he can't do it staying on this island, 'cause Kate will die.

Also don't see why anyone is surprised, or irritated when Kate flirts with Jack. She's done it since day one ("you checkin' me out?"). Flirting is a large part of how she interacts with men. But, she 's got a split personality and at her core is somone better than that, someone Jack "met" from day one on the island and has been trying to draw out ever since. That is the side of Kate he is in love with and he gives her the courage to be that person. That is why Kate will eventually leave this island to face her day in court. That's why the producers keep Jate going and state it is the ultimate relationship. So, I don't feel like any of our dysfunctional triangle family has acted out of character in this episode.

But in the last episode Kate seemed to be pretty sure that she wasn't pregnant. She told Sawyer as much, to which he reacted and said "Good."
Now, I don't know why that could be, but there are a couple of reasons why Kate could be sure she can't become pregnant. Medical issues is the first that come to mind. Maybe she can't conceive, so the whole 'pregnant women die'-issue wouldn't be a reason for her to want to leave the island. Maybe that's why she didn't bring it up.
Maybe she just had her "comma".

So a question is does Sawyer have the guts to leave the island? I mean, Ben called him a nobody in the real world and now he's acting like it - hiding out in Otherville. Is he man enough to make a real commitment to someone he loves, someone with whom he may have fathered another child? He couldn't do it in the past and he can't do it staying on this island, 'cause Kate will die.
I suppose you are a person I'm never going to agree with. What do "guts" have to do with it? The only thing in his life before was his quest to kill Frank Sawyer. He's done that. He has a child, but he hates himself so much that he believes she's better off without him in her life (though he set her up financially). If he leaves he'll probably just drift back into the miserable life he had before. Why not make a life where he is? It reminds me a little bit of an old classic movie, "The Incredible Shrinking Man." As he diiminishes to molescule size he doesn't know what that makes him. They he comes to understand that he can be a true "man" in whatever world he finds himself in. I don't see why staying makes him less of a man. And he is the one to make the proposal to Kate -- he's asking her right there to be with him. He's making the commitment right there. Is Kate "woman" enough to "make a real commitment to someone she loves, someone with whom she may have started a baby? She couldn't do it in the past..." Any particular reason you're expecting Sawyer to hold to a certain standard but not Kate?

Also don't see why anyone is surprised, or irritated when Kate flirts with Jack. She's done it since day one ("you checkin' me out?"). Flirting is a large part of how she interacts with men. But, she 's got a split personality and at her core is somone better than that, someone Jack "met" from day one on the island and has been trying to draw out ever since. That is the side of Kate he is in love with and he gives her the courage to be that person. That is why Kate will eventually leave this island to face her day in court. That's why the producers keep Jate going and state it is the ultimate relationship. So, I don't feel like any of our dysfunctional triangle family has acted out of character in this episode.
Well said.

I think there are some really disturbed fantasies on this thread: some people are talking as if the there had been a love scene between Sawyer and Kate in this episode. There wasn't.

What do we know?
1. Kate and Sawyer had a heart-to-heart talk about their lives on
the island, and what each may face if they return to civilization.
Why shouldn't they? Isn't that what friends do?
2. Sayid returns to the copter with Charlotte, and tells Jack that
"Kate decided to stay".
That's it.
We have no way of knowing why she decided to stay, or indeed, if
Sayid is telling the truth. Personally, I think Kate, Sawyer and Sayid have cooked up a plan to defeat the Freighties, and felt that they couldn't tell Jack about it since he is was so keen to trust them.

Maybe Sawyer and Kate are hiding, well armed, just over the next hill in case the Freighties try something.

This thread is not about Sawyer, his reasons to stay or not to stay on the Island, his relationship with Kate, etc. and it's most definitely NOT about ships.

It's about bad writing, more specifically about how badly written Kate is. It's about characters getting a sudden bout of amnesia and forgetting what motivated them four episodes ago.


Also don't see why anyone is surprised, or irritated when Kate flirts with Jack. She's done it since day one

Not surprised at all, I'm just saying that on Day One she hadn't been doing another guy just two nights ago and Jack didn't strongly suspect she was pregnant. It's very trailerpark trash and I've made a little timeline to explain why I think Kate's actions are extremely trite and dictated by the need to keep alive the idiotic storyline of the triangle. No 27 year old woman with a dash of brains or integrity acts that way, but Kate has neither because the writers want to keep both shippers groups interested and show her in her bikini whenever possible.

This thread is not about Sawyer, his reasons to stay or not to stay on the Island, his relationship with Kate, etc. and it's most definitely NOT about ships.
True, sorry I was talking off-topic.

Not surprised at all, I'm just saying that on Day One she hadn't been doing another guy just two nights ago and Jack didn't strongly suspect she was pregnant. It's very trailerpark trash and I've made a little timeline to explain why I think Kate's actions are extremely trite and dictated by the need to keep alive the idiotic storyline of the triangle. No 27 year old woman with a dash of brains or integrity acts that way, but Kate has neither because the writers want to keep both shippers groups interested and show her in her bikini whenever possible.
True again, I dislike Kate so much and forget that there are actually writers involved in making her do/say the stuff that makes me want to gnaw off my ears. There's so much in this series. I can't help but believe that the writers underestimate their viewers by thinking we need the ship/triangle stuff to keep us interested. My gosh, there's so much in these epis, and they've already kind of dead-ended lots of storylines. All the stupid triangle stuff takes up the time that should be spent on tying up loose ends and completing story arcs.

True again, I dislike Kate so much and forget that there are actually writers involved in making her do/say the stuff that makes me want to gnaw off my ears. There's so much in this series. I can't help but believe that the writers underestimate their viewers by thinking we need the ship/triangle stuff to keep us interested. My gosh, there's so much in these epis, and they've already kind of dead-ended lots of storylines. All the stupid triangle stuff takes up the time that should be spent on tying up loose ends and completing story arcs.

Well said...we can only hope that this seeming tapering off of the triangle will stick, but I don't know that I have that much faith in the writers anymore, and I have no doubt that it'll charge tritely ahead, to the end of Lost. :rolleyes:

They insist on continuing Kate's obsessive need for Jack's approval, going so far as to parallel her relationship with him - the proverbial "good guy" - to her relationship with her mother (seeking unneeded approval from both). They insist on continuing to have Kate struggle against falling for Sawyer - the "bad boy" - because of her mother's past relationship with Wayne, and Kate's desire to be/deserve something "good" herself. They try and force her into flirty situations with Jack, and on the other side of that coin they portray her as utterly (if reluctantly) in love with Sawyer...and in so doing, they are dangerously close to destroying her character completely. I'll never understand it. :drowsy:

It's about bad writing, more specifically about how badly written Kate is. It's about characters getting a sudden bout of amnesia and forgetting what motivated them four episodes ago.
I'm glad that you mentioned the apparent amnesia, because I've been posting about it for years, with the hope that it is plot/mystery-based, or failing that...intended to be comedic.

It was beyond ridiculous that Kate would plop down on the bed, gun in hand, and ask Sawyer "so I'm your prisoner now?". So I think that it was supposed to be funny...or maybe she is a malfunctioning robot (LOL). Someone posted elsewhere about how the characters seem to be TPTB's toys...which is actually true (in a way), but maybe that concept is being shown on screen in a more literal way.

I often feel that I don't have the necessary vocabulary to discuss LOST. :biggrin:

Maybe that scene was just watercooler fodder...
100%
After more thought, maybe Kate was just referring to Sawyer walking in the room and closing the door...and she didn't feel terribly threatened by him, and didn't want to harm him either. Maybe she's trying to resist her feelings about him (not trying to go shipper here either).

But that doesn't quite work with how long she pointed the gun at him...unless there is some mind/memory manipulation going on (or some more fanciful theory)...

Well said.

I think there are some really disturbed fantasies on this thread: some people are talking as if the there had been a love scene between Sawyer and Kate in this episode. There wasn't.

What do we know?
1. Kate and Sawyer had a heart-to-heart talk about their lives on
the island, and what each may face if they return to civilization.
Why shouldn't they? Isn't that what friends do?
2. Sayid returns to the copter with Charlotte, and tells Jack that
"Kate decided to stay".
That's it.
We have no way of knowing why she decided to stay, or indeed, if
Sayid is telling the truth. Personally, I think Kate, Sawyer and Sayid have cooked up a plan to defeat the Freighties, and felt that they couldn't tell Jack about it since he is was so keen to trust them.

Maybe Sawyer and Kate are hiding, well armed, just over the next hill in case the Freighties try something.

You have to be in denial to believe that Sawyer and Kate are just friends. But that's your perogative.

Kate's actions are very inconsistent. She yells for Sayid as if Sawyer is the enemy because he left with Locke. She asks him if he is holding her prisoner when she's the one holding the gun. Then she engages in a conversation with him in which she tries to convince him to leave the island and he tries to convince her to stay. Cue the Sawyer and Kate love theme. And she stays. Hello?

Well said.

I think there are some really disturbed fantasies on this thread: some people are talking as if the there had been a love scene between Sawyer and Kate in this episode. There wasn't.

What do we know?
1. Kate and Sawyer had a heart-to-heart talk about their lives on
the island, and what each may face if they return to civilization.
Why shouldn't they? Isn't that what friends do?
2. Sayid returns to the copter with Charlotte, and tells Jack that
"Kate decided to stay".
That's it.
We have no way of knowing why she decided to stay, or indeed, if
Sayid is telling the truth. Personally, I think Kate, Sawyer and Sayid have cooked up a plan to defeat the Freighties, and felt that they couldn't tell Jack about it since he is was so keen to trust them.

Maybe Sawyer and Kate are hiding, well armed, just over the next hill in case the Freighties try something.

I'm right there with you on this one. Why do we assume Sayid is telling Jack the complete truth when he comes back? Or, put another way, why muddy the water by saying Kate and I have a plan and she has her part to do, and I am doing mine.

I think Kate has a definite agenda to get off the Island which has been hinted at with the stealing of the SatPhone and her tracking of Naomi. She even talked to the Freighter and gave her name. I think we will see in upcoming episodes that Kate proves once again she is not the simpering idiot some in this thread have made her out to be. No character on the show is as one dimensional as the OP is trying to make her seem. Cherry picking scenes can be done for any Lost character to prove one thing or another. IMHO.

I can see why others feel so strongly about her flaws/actions, but I think the same irritating inconsistencies can be shown in many other characters too, not just Kate. But I digress.

What is with all the Kate bashing?!

NO, Ben did not do anything to her after breakfast!:rant:

Kate IS NOT A POORLY WRITTEN CHARACTER! SHE IS GREAT! Sawyer is just treating her POORLY!!
ok mate we get it, you LOVE kate every thread i read about kate this season
you always say how sawyer treats kate bad, HOW?
please explain what you think sawyer's doing wrong to kate.

...but please do so in another thread where it would be on topic.

I agree that Sayid's comment to Jack upon returning was a brushoff; an effective way to deflect any more questions about what Kate might be up to. And with apologies to others on this thread, I absolutely do not see Kate as "utterly in love with Sawyer". She's far from given up on him either, but I think despite being physically involved with him she is still trying to sort out where her heart lies. And that may be another reason why she hangs back. Sawyer did put it out there and it meant something to Kate that he offered something other than the cold shoulder he's shown her the past few episodes.

Jack's ILY was puttin' it out there too and it was said knowing Kate slept with Sawyer and knowing that she might be pregnant and even though he isn't necessarily expecting it to be reciprocated, he enjoys her approach. He willingly lets her in; he doesn't care what she does to his heart because he chose to give it to her. Frankly, that's true of both guys and so I think the writers have been consistent with Kate's character in so much as where they intend to take her. But I think next week will show that there is much more going on this past week than the never ending triangle. I expect that Kate will make an attempt to interrogate Ben and could use Sawyer to help her gain access to him.

Kate's a stupid bitch these days -- emphasis on "stupid."

That's the extent of my profundity regarding her right now.