When Jack asked Kate to go with "them" and they discussed not trusting Locke, I thought this meant Jack wanted Kate to go with Sayid and Miles to get Charlotte and then come back. BUT, I'm assuming because Kate didn't come back that Jack wanted her to be a plant inside the Locke team to keep Locke on track. Is this correct or was Kate supposed to come back with Sayid and now she is being held hostage too? OR did Kate choose Sawyer over Jack once again and decide to stay on her own?

I think Sawyer convinced her to stay and play house (I mean now they have a bed to get busy in instead of a bear cage)! But obviously she parts ways with them at some time since she is part of the Oceanic 6.

Locke didn't let her go?

Locke didn't let her go?
So, does that mean she was part of Sayid's trade?

What use is Kate to Locke? She stayed because she wanted to and will most likely be free to leave is she chooses to. Locke's trolley isn't quite on the track, but I doubt he'd hold any of his friends against their will.

Ok, so was Jack expecting Kate to come back with Sayid or was their conversation about her staying and keeping an eye on things at the Locke camp?

I got the impression that Kate originals intentions were to come back but then Sawyer convinced her to stay

She was part of Sayids trade. What does Jack covet most on that Island " Kate" Now Locke has a bargaining chip against Jack now.

Either Sawyer won't let her leave, or convinced her not to leave...I'm going with convinced seeing the scenes from next week. Wink wink, lol

I think that maybe Locke is keeping Kate because it's leverage against Jack. I don't think she decided to stay behind or that Sawyer talked her into staying. You could tell from the look on Sayid's face when Jack asked him where Kate was, he said that she had stayed behind, I don't believe that at all.

I think that maybe Locke is keeping Kate because it's leverage against Jack. I don't think she decided to stay behind or that Sawyer talked her into staying. You could tell from the look on Sayid's face when Jack asked him where Kate was, he said that she had stayed behind, I don't believe that at all.

Well, Locke just ended up on my blacklist.

Same with Sawyer!

It almost looks to me as if Sayid didn't even say anything to Kate. Like he just made the Miles/Charlotte trade and just took off leaving Kate in the bedroom with Sawyer...

She was part of Sayids trade. What does Jack covet most on that Island " Kate" Now Locke has a bargaining chip against Jack now.
Oh please, that doesn't make any sense. Why would Sayid trade two people against one? The trade was Charlotte against Miles, freighter person against freighter person.

Why do you think they put the whole Sawyer-Kate conversation into the episode? Sawyer told Kate that the only thing waiting for her off the island is a pair of handcuffs, and she realized that that's exactly how it is.

Well, Locke just ended up on my blacklist.

Same with Sawyer!

Why Locke? At least he doesn't claim to be in love with Kate and then hold her hostage, if in fact that's what's being done.

Are we forgetting "Not Penny's boat" already? As far as I'm concerned, Locke, Sawyer and the others are in the right.

Are we forgetting "Not Penny's boat" already? As far as I'm concerned, Locke, Sawyer and the others are in the right.
I've never disagreed with that. I am on Team Locke!! We are just disputing whether or not Locke and Sawyer are keeping Kate hostage and if they are why?

I don't think they are. I think Sawyer convinced Kate not to leave the house.

It almost looks to me as if Sayid didn't even say anything to Kate. Like he just made the Miles/Charlotte trade and just took off leaving Kate in the bedroom with Sawyer...

Yeah, that's exactly the impression I got too. Kate's in good hands for now away.

She obviously stayed because Sawyer convinced her to. That whole little speech meant something to her.

I don't think they are. I think Sawyer convinced Kate not to leave the house.
I don't think Kate is that easily convinced.

First they will play house..
Then Doctor, (aint talking no Shepard here)..
Then bow-chika-wow-wow!

My prediction!

She will run back to Jack after Sawyer asks her to make breakfast.

So, does that mean we agree that Jack was expecting Kate to come back with Sayid? Or was Jack and Kate's conversation about her being a spy to keep an eye out on Locke?

I don't think Kate is that easily convinced.
We already know that she ends up leaving the island, but I think Sawyer made a really good point, that she is a fugitive and would probably be arrested upon arriving back in the real world. She would probably rather avoid that.

Why Locke? At least he doesn't claim to be in love with Kate and then hold her hostage, if in fact that's what's being done.

She is being held against her own will. Locke is playing hardball.

Also, Sawyer is self-fish and is manipulating Kate.

I don't care, she deserves a great life and none of this jail time crap is going to stop her!

She was part of Sayids trade. What does Jack covet most on that Island " Kate" Now Locke has a bargaining chip against Jack now.
There's no way Kate was part of any trade on Sayid's part. He traded Miles for Charlotte, which he made clear to Frank. He told Jack that Kate "decided to stay". We don't know how long she'll stay, but it was her choice and force had nothing to do with it.

So, does that mean we agree that Jack was expecting Kate to come back with Sayid? Or was Jack and Kate's conversation about her being a spy to keep an eye out on Locke?

Yes, I believe Jack was expecting her back and was concerned when he didn't see her, until Sayid explained that Kate "decided to stay."

She is being held against her own will. Locke is playing hardball.

Also, Sawyer is self-fish and is manipulating Kate.

I don't care, she deserves a great life and none of this jail time crap is going to stop her!

Locke would never hold Kate against her will and who really cares if Sawyer is selfishly manipulating the queen of selish manipulation, at least he's doing it with a pure heart, his feelings for Kate genuine, which is more than can be said for Kate's motivations most of the time.

Why does Kate deserve a great life when there is a widow in Iowa raising a young child alone and bunch of traumatized bank robbery victims in New Mexico still finding it difficult to sleep at night? Kate deserves to go to jail, but this LOST where good gets punched in the gut and evil triumphs so that Kate appears to be living well and free as a bird in the future shouldn't surprise anyone.

We already know that she ends up leaving the island, but I think Sawyer made a really good point, that she is a fugitive and would probably be arrested upon arriving back in the real world. She would probably rather avoid that.
I've even said what Sawyer said in this episode. However I'm sure it's crossed kate's mind before Sawyer brought it up and she still chose to stay with Jack. I don't know how long she'll be with Sawyer and Locke but in the end she'll be back with jack.

I don't think Kate is being held hostage but there's way more to it than Sawyer convinced her. She'll sleep with Sawyer again but it will only be to manipulate him, she ain't playing house.

The real question is what does Kate want? What game is she playing?

I don't think Kate is being held hostage but there's way more to it than Sawyer convinced her. She'll sleep with Sawyer again but it will only be to manipulate him, she ain't playing house.

The real question is what does Kate want? What game is she playing?


I agree...

Sawyer saying something like, "you have your own agenda" to Kate in the previews?

Locke would never hold Kate against her will and who really cares if Sawyer is selfishly manipulating the queen of selish manipulation, at least he's doing it with a pure heart, his feelings for Kate genuine, which is more than can be said for Kate's motivations most of the time.

Why does Kate deserve a great life when there is a widow in Iowa raising a young child alone and bunch of traumatized bank robbery victims in New Mexico still finding it difficult to sleep at night? Kate deserves to go to jail, but this LOST where good gets punched in the gut and evil triumphs so that Kate appears to be living well and free as a bird in the future shouldn't surprise anyone.

Kate is not evil, just misunderstood!

Also, Sawyer and Locke are evil. I just know it!

It almost looks to me as if Sayid didn't even say anything to Kate. Like he just made the Miles/Charlotte trade and just took off leaving Kate in the bedroom with Sawyer...
i totally agree with this. i don't think kate even knew that sayid had left. obviously that's why they stuck sawyer with her because locke knew that he could keep her preoccupied. i wonder what she's going to do when she finds out she's been tricked.

did you see how jack stood looking over the hill even after charlotte and sayid had passed him by, telling him she had stayed. that was so sad.

she is not a hostage anymore she decided to stay..no one is forcing her to do it...
James is not evil...he has changed so much since season one....
and lost is about redemption, at least for some characters will be, and Kate deserves a new life...and fresh start...

Locke would never hold Kate against her will and who really cares if Sawyer is selfishly manipulating the queen of selish manipulation, at least he's doing it with a pure heart, his feelings for Kate genuine, which is more than can be said for Kate's motivations most of the time.

Why does Kate deserve a great life when there is a widow in Iowa raising a young child alone and bunch of traumatized bank robbery victims in New Mexico still finding it difficult to sleep at night? Kate deserves to go to jail, but this LOST where good gets punched in the gut and evil triumphs so that Kate appears to be living well and free as a bird in the future shouldn't surprise anyone.
what about the "widow" of the man sawyer killed right before he got on the plane. he killed the wrong man. sun committed adultery ultimately killing the man through her father having him thrown out of a window. each one of the survivors has a sad past, some by their own hands. You may not like kate, but she's not the only one who's sinned.

I think something is going on off screen. Jack was wondering where Kate was when Sayid came back and looked sad that she didn't, so I don't think it was part of any "plan". If there is, Jack doesn't know about it. We also know that Kate doesn't stay at the barracks, as she gets off the island. Kate has some sort of ulterior motive that we just don't know about yet. It wouldn't be the first time she's had a card up her sleeve.

she is not a hostage anymore she decided to stay..no one is forcing her to do it...
James is not evil...he has changed so much since season one....
and lost is about redemption, at least for some characters will be, and Kate deserves a new life...and fresh start...
i agree that everyone deserves redemption and a new start, but i think we'll find out next week whether kate wanted to stay or not. don't you think that since jack asked her to go with sayid because he knew how much she wanted to go that she would have come back with sayid just to tell jack that she is going to stay with sawyer's group. that's not like kate to just disappear from jack. even if she's not "with" jack, she wants him to trust her.

I think something is going on off screen. Jack was wondering where Kate was when Sayid came back and looked sad that she didn't, so I don't think it was part of any "plan". If there is, Jack doesn't know about it. We also know that Kate doesn't stay at the barracks, as she gets off the island. Kate has some sort of ulterior motive that we just don't know about yet. It wouldn't be the first time she's had a card up her sleeve.
I guess its possible she simply fell for Sawyer again. Or maybe she called an audible and decided to take Jack's plan one step further and keep an eye on Locke from that side. Maybe it wasn't the initial plan but Kate came up with the idea once she was over there.

First they will play house..
Then Doctor, (aint talking no Shepard here)..
Then bow-chika-wow-wow!

My prediction!

She will run back to Jack after Sawyer asks her to make breakfast.

LOL!! I think this should have been spoiler fonted! :biggrin:

I guess its possible she simply fell for Sawyer again. Or maybe she called an audible and decided to take Jack's plan one step further and keep an eye on Locke from that side. Maybe it wasn't the initial plan but Kate came up with the idea once she was over there.

I can definitely see her improvising once she got there. If there is one think that is consistent about Kate, it is that she is spontaneous. I just can't see her staying just because of Sawyer (and we know for a fact that she doesn't stay). She would die if she stays! I really hope they clear that up ASAP because the fact that neither of them seemed to be concerned about her potentially dying is really irritating.

I guess you're assuming she's pregnant?

I guess you're assuming she's pregnant?

I'm assuming that having unprotected sex=pregnancy. Even if she's not pregant for whatever reason, it needs to be addressed. Staying with Locke isn't going help her unless the magic box can.

I'm assuming that having unprotected sex=pregnancy. Even if she's not pregant for whatever reason, it needs to be addressed. Staying with Locke isn't going help her unless the magic box can.

Totally agree. It's weird that she doesn't mention it as a reason to leave the island. If for some reason it's truly a non-issue for Kate, they need to explain why.

Totally agree. It's weird that she doesn't mention it as a reason to leave the island. If for some reason it's truly a non-issue for Kate, they need to explain why.

Exactly. Thank you. ;)

I get why some people would want to stay on the island. I really do, especially if you are Locke. But for Kate, her options are to go back to the real world and go to jail (although we know that she is not in jail in the future) or stay on the island and DIE! Yes, there is the possibility that she may not be pregnant, but if this is the case it needs to be addressed. If she is, or if she isn't, it still needs to be addressed. I haven't completely given up on Kate for entirely losing her brains, which is why I don't think she is will be staying with Locke for long and/or playing house with Sawyer. She has another agenda for going with Locke's side.

what going on here is Kate doing what she thinks is the right thing for her to do...she doesn't need any man to make a decision for her... even tho going back = jail...but if she has feelings she is pregnant she has to leave James going or not with her.
why she has to go and tell Jack she decided to stay to go back the same day...i don't see the point what she did was right...Sayid giving the message to Jack

At least he doesn't claim to be in love with Kate and then hold her hostage, if in fact that's what's being done.

She is clearly not a "hostage" because she still has her GUN. Sawyer doesn't even try to take it away, not does she ever threaten to use it to get free. Sawyer obviously convinced her to stay, at least for now.

well if Kate is a captive she makes the most of it according to the preview scenes for next week's epi or a soon coming one. hehe
Arlie

Yeah, I think Kate has stayed of her own free will.
Didn't Sayid say Kate decided to stay?

We should take that as the truth.
I think the interesting thing about it is that if Kate chose to stay, what made her change her mind to leave the island?

Unless she's conning them anyway. My bets on the latter.

Kate is not a captive and she has not a hidden agenda/working fr Jack. She only works for herself.

Kate clearly has another agenda for staying behind. And Sayid commenting to Jack that she "decided to stay" - definately a brushoff. He falls somewhere in between Jack and Locke in terms of how he views the "rescue party". Charlotte was his ticket off the island, but I think he intends to get on board the freighter and determine whether the rescuers pose a threat to the survivors before putting any more people in harms way. Kate is going after the other half of the puzzle - Ben - and will try to find out what the connection is between him and the others. Locke, who's in communication with the island, takes it on faith that the folks on the freighter are bad news. Jack is hell bent on getting out of there and doesn't seem to care why the freighter4 were sent to bring Ben back. So long as they bring the Oceanic survivors home safely Jack doesn't care if they skin Ben alive. And Sawyer......I don't know, he wants to play house.

Sayid is not a liar if he said Kate decided to stay ....she decided to stay...what is the point to lie about it??? none...

I've already said this elsewhere, but if Kate decided to stay and "play house" on the suggestion of a man who was essentially holding her hostage, than clearly she's become a feeble-minded shell of the original Kate, who was strong-willed and way too smart to play the role of love-sick bimbo.

Ick.

I've already said this elsewhere, but if Kate decided to stay and "play house" on the suggestion of a man who was essentially holding her hostage, than clearly she's become a feeble-minded shell of the original Kate, who was strong-willed and way too smart to play the role of love-sick bimbo.

Ick.


I'm still holding out hope that Kate is up to something.

I still say she's taking Jack's suggestion one step further and keeping an eye on Locke while Jack figures out a way off the island.

Ok, so was Jack expecting Kate to come back with Sayid or was their conversation about her staying and keeping an eye on things at the Locke camp?

Jack's expression after Sayid told him she decided to stay makes me think that he was expecting her to go and come back.

Anyway, we have understand now (and so the losties) that the freighters are not going to leave immediately the island, since they have their "jobs" to do. Kate may be aware as well that even if she remains with Sawyer now, she's not going to lose her ride off-island.

Sawyer made the woman one hell of an offer ....she's had nothing like it from Jack (not actually James' idea mind - that would be Ben, who planted it last episode :biggrin: clever boy!)

There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Kate had Locke issues: he's read her file.

Since she learned that... she's taken every opportunity presented to side with Jack against him or drop him in it with the Freighties. This woman, with a proven gift for lying on her feet, gave Naomi - whom she only just met and did not know - the real name of a man who had treated her with respect, admiration and never a shred of belittlement.

What... she couldn't have said John Brown, Joseph Bloggs or Alan Smithey?

She continued to call the wrath of the Freighties down upon him even after she had cause to doubt they had come to assist them.

She's following her own agenda all right.

(and more power to her elbow! lovelorn Kate was lame)

Kate's no lovesick bimbo, but she is conflicted. By her love for Sawyer, her loyalty to Jack and desire to get off the island and risk a life sentence in prison vs risk a death sentence on island if she gets pregnant. I think that she does have a pretty compelling reason to stay with regard to Sawyer wanting to make a go of it. There's nothing wrong with two people in love wanting to find a way to stay together if they can work it out. However, I am presuming she has multple reasons for staying, and with the island being what it is, events shall likely make staying at the Barracks no safer than anywhere else. Sawyer admittedly doesn't know how long the playing house could last, but he was willing to give it a try. This harks back to Darlton's plans for Kate when they said they'd be exploring her commitment issues post I Do.

Upcoming spoiler spec:

We know she has an agenda with Miles and wanting to find out what he knows about her history. However, it's also clear from spoilers that she genuinely was staying at the barracks, and doesn't want to leave until forced to. So I really don't think she's trying to spy for Locke for Jack or being held as a traded pawn (since Locke banishes her next ep)

Ok, so was Jack expecting Kate to come back with Sayid or was their conversation about her staying and keeping an eye on things at the Locke camp?
Yes - Jack was expecting Kate to come back. Watch that scene when Sayid tells Jack Kate stayed behind. He is looking all around for her as they walk up. And when he finds out - he is torn up!!

She was part of Sayids trade. What does Jack covet most on that Island " Kate" Now Locke has a bargaining chip against Jack now.

I think that was the plan - but it won't happen.

Yes - Sawyer will try to convince her to stay behind and "play house" because he wants her too. BUT - Jack's right - Sawyer will not let anything happen to Kate - even if it means letting her go. He would have done it several times when they were in captivity and he will do it now.

Sawyer will let her go. And Locke will be pissed. And Sawyer won't care. :biggrin:

Let the convincing begin... :drool:

Kate's no lovesick bimbo,
That's what leads me to believe she either
a: was held against her will or
b: she has an agenda which I think is to keep an eye on Locke while Jack figures out how to leave the island.

Upcoming spoiler spec:

We know she has an agenda with Miles and wanting to find out what he knows about her history. However, it's also clear from spoilers that she genuinely was staying at the barracks, and doesn't want to leave until forced to. So I really don't think she's trying to spy for Locke for Jack or being held as a traded pawn (since Locke banishes her next ep)


I'm not totally sure about that.

I don't think she already has an agenda. I'm more into thinking that something's gonna happen during next ep that leads to Miles' third degree

Obviously we know that Kate had an agenda now. I don't think Sawyer played any part of why she stayed with Locke's side. It appears that it hurt Jack's feelings though.

Obviously we know that Kate had an agenda now. I don't think Sawyer played any part of why she stayed with Locke's side. It appears that it hurt Jack's feelings though.

Yes, and she managed to hurt both Sawyer and Jack as usual. :rolleyes: