I had a feeling that Kate's baby would be Aaron. The question I have is how does the prophecy of Aaron having to be raised by Claire going to come into play?

No reason to spoilerfont. Please remove it so people don't get confused.

EXCELLENT POINT. What will happen now that Aaron is being "raised by another"????

While I believe that it is and it is highly likely, we have no 100% confirmation that it is Claire's Aaron so if that info is based on a spoiler or a hunch based on a spoiler than rtteachr should feel to spoiler font it. Better safe than sorry.

Can someone quickly recap this season 1 episode in conjunction now with aaron being raised by another?

I'll likely watch it this weekend but interested to see what others think now. Sorry if this has already been started, I couldn't find it...

Good question. The psychoic did tell Claire her baby must not be raised by another and now Kate is raising Aaron who is another. I wonder what the effect will be for this.

Hopefully it means he won't grow up to be evil. That episode has always made me think Aaron is some demonic baby biding his time, waiting to do bad things.

After Claire's boyfriend left her, Claire decides to let the baby be adopted, and goes to a palm-reader, with her friend.

The palm-reader is the one who tells Claire that she 'must raise her baby,..nobody else but her.'

That's bothering me, big time now. If Kate is raising Aaron, what does that mean?

Does Aaron have psychic abilities? Could he grow up to be the female Carrie? I wonder,...

I'm with you guys.

I always think about Aaron's implications becasue the psychic -- Malkin -- said that Aaron would never know happiness if he was raised by another. I always got the impression that aaron could become like Damien in the Omen movies -- the physical conduit for Satan or something.

We also know that Malkin FALSELY arranged for Claire to fly to LA to give up the baby but he knew the plane would crash. Did Malkin foresee everything on the island and forseee that Kate would adopt the baby? Does he foresee Aaron being happy with Kate?

In true LOST style one answer raises twenty more questions!!!

Ok, I see what you are saying, Karri. The way the OP phrased it, I took it to mean just info from tonight's episode.

I am hoping to hear from other posters.... what will it mean to Kate, and maybe the rest of the world that Aaron is being raised by another?

Just one more reason to think this must be Claire's Aaron. It brings the prophecy into play.

I think Claire is still alive on the island and Aaron needs to go back there to do whatever it is he is supposed to do. Kate's selfish, short-sighted tendencies have once again screwed things up.

Does anyone remember Claire's first episode in season one? When the psychic told her that she must raise the baby? that her baby raised by anyone else would be in terrible danger?

do you think the writers have forgotten that or do you think it's still significant?

I do think that's still significant. I mentioned it to my mom (with whom I always watch) after the show ended.

I think Claire is still alive on the island and Aaron needs to go back there to do whatever it is he is supposed to do. Kate's selfish, short-sighted tendencies have once again screwed things up.

excellent thought. i hadnt really thought about that quite yet.

If Aaron is Claires then Jack didin't want to see him because of some guilt. However, if Aaron is Kate's and Sawyer's then Jack didn't want to see the second Aaron because of that.

Does anyone remember Claire's first episode in season one? When the psychic told her that she must raise the baby? that her baby raised by anyone else would be in terrible danger?

do you think the writers have forgotten that or do you think it's still significant?

I seriously doubt the writers have forgotten it. If we can remember it, so can they. Probably is significant.

Rewind for Raised by Another (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=83248)

no, aaron was not supposed to be raidest by an OTHER


lol i don't know


i knew as soon as the episode was over that there would be a topic with this name....

in one of eko's episodes in season 2 the psychic said that he was a fake. i think he just said that to claire to get her onto the island. maybe he is associated w/ dharma or widmore or whatever. but this doesn't really make sense because how would anyone know that desmond would stop pushing the button the moment flight 815 was over the island... (which has been the confirmed reason for the plane crash). then again... why would the psychic say he is a fake. the only reason would be to prevent eko from investigating his daughter (who supposedly came back to life). WHO KNOWS??? i wouldn't be surprised if the writers never address this issue again =P

If Aaron is Claires then Jack didin't want to see him because of some guilt. However, if Aaron is Kate's and Sawyer's then Jack didn't want to see the second Aaron because of that.

Yeah, that's the million dollar question. Did she lie to Sawyer or is she lying now? I would think that she told Sawyer the truth and that this is Claire's Aaron...but what happened to Claire then? Why would she ever consent to give him up? (Is she dead? Was there another reason that she couldn't leave the island?) What sort of guilt would Jack have if that was Claire's Aaron? Did they steal the baby?

:eek2:

The psychic does tell Claire she must raise the baby herself but then toward the end of the episode he says he was wrong and gives her a plane ticket to L.A. where he's found a couple that will be good parents for the baby. I think he gives her $10k and then she'll get another $10k when she gets to L.A.

Kate is in L.A. and has "adopted" Aaron. Maybe she and Jack do get married and he adopts Aaron. What a twist since we know he's Aaron's uncle.

Kate and her future significant other could be the "couple in LA" the psychic was referring to.

in one of eko's episodes in season 2 the psychic said that he was a fake. i think he just said that to claire to get her onto the island. maybe he is associated w/ dharma or widmore or whatever. but this doesn't really make sense because how would anyone know that desmond would stop pushing the button the moment flight 815 was over the island... (which has been the confirmed reason for the plane crash). then again... why would the psychic say he is a fake. the only reason would be to prevent eko from investigating his daughter (who supposedly came back to life). WHO KNOWS??? i wouldn't be surprised if the writers never address this issue again =P Correct you are. The psychic was lying to Eko about being a fake. The fact is, Richard Malkin actually refused any money from Claire, and actually paid her, losing thousands of dollars in the process, just to insure that she raised the baby herself. He also spent months harassing her about raising the baby by herself; that's how afraid he was of the implications if she didn't. Malkin had no financial gain in his dealings with Claire, which proves he is not a fake and just didn't want to be investigated and exposed by Eko.

Raised By Another is one of my favorite episodes of all time and I have waited over two seasons for some more development in that storyline and I am glad that there is finally some progress! I think they are building Aaron to be the "Anti-Walt". I think they have already hinted at Aaron having some psychic abilities of his own, most notably spontaneously crying after Charlie died. Also, Jack seemed notably afraid of Aaaron in my opinion, even passing up the chance to be with Kate. Jack must know Aaron is "special".

Malkin specifically told Claire that her "goodness" had to be an influence in the development of her child and that "grave danger" surrounded him. There would also be "no happy life" for her baby if she herself didn't raise the child. "There can be no other."

Great ending! I always wondered what would happen if Claire didn't raise the baby herself, and as sad it is going to be, now we will finally know.

I think Claire died. Think about it, Jack discovers Claire is his half-sister. Claire dies - Aaron is raised by Kate. Jack and Kate have this awkward relationship surrounding whatever this x-factor is.

The psychic does tell Claire she must raise the baby herself but then toward the end of the episode he says he was wrong and gives her a plane ticket to L.A. where he's found a couple that will be good parents for the baby. I think he gives her $10k and then she'll get another $10k when she gets to L.A.

Kate is in L.A. and has "adopted" Aaron. Maybe she and Jack do get married and he adopts Aaron. What a twist since we know he's Aaron's uncle.

the plane ticket could simply be to strand her on the island and force her to raise him...the "rescue" could have been an unforeseen wrinkle.

Aaron was the first live birth on the island. Kate could be pregnant, maybe her baby dies and she steals Aaron in her child's place. She's turning out to be crazy and conflicted enough to do it. This whole episode revealed just how torn up she is inside. When Jack was lying for her she couldn't stand it and stopped him. Her mom's appearance really threw her for a loop too. Her relationship with Sawyer and her motivations to stay or leave the island have all come into question as well. In short, Kate is becoming increasingly unbalanced and stealing Claire's baby does not seem too far fetched.

Yeah, that's the million dollar question. Did she lie to Sawyer or is she lying now? I would think that she told Sawyer the truth and that this is Claire's Aaron
:eek2:

What I don't understand is how did she know whether or not she was pregnant? It hasn't been that long since they were in the cages and she wouldn't know for sure if she was pregnant or not...unless she took one of those Dharma pregnancy tests and we didn't see that part.

While I believe that it is and it is highly likely, we have no 100% confirmation that it is Claire's Aaron so if that info is based on a spoiler or a hunch based on a spoiler than rtteachr should feel to spoiler font it. Better safe than sorry.

Well TPTB won't just leave a cliffhanger like that, just to pass it off that Kate named her own child Aaron. Also, the hints ie when Claire was like Kate can you hold Aaron.

Typical LOST irony there. Like when Sayid was like I'd sell my soul than work for Ben, then what do you know, he does.

I think Claire is still alive on the island and Aaron needs to go back there to do whatever it is he is supposed to do. Kate's selfish, short-sighted tendencies have once again screwed things up.


I disagree. I think Claire dies. Actually I read that the end of the episode would be a big hint at the next person to die.

I also think there is only one Aaron and that is Claire's. Having Kate name her baby after Aaron is too sappy for this show. Plus, all the time Kate spent with Claire in this episode foreshadowed the ending.

I think Kate was telling Sawyer the truth, that she wasn't pregnant, (something she knew likely because of her cycle) and that the pregnancy issue was just brought up to mislead us until the end of the episode so that the Aaron thing would be a shock.

I think that Kate is taking care of Aaron for Claire, because for some reason Claire cannot. Jack knows this, but is not okay with it (we don't know why yet). Kate doesn't want her mom to see the baby, or have the baby shown on TV because she doesn't want the child to be identified as not hers. Kate's mom might be able to tell that Aaron is not Kate's biological child.

I think Kate was telling Sawyer the truth, that she wasn't pregnant, (something she knew likely because of her cycle) and that the pregnancy issue was just brought up to mislead us until the end of the episode so that the Aaron thing would be a shock.

I think that Kate is taking care of Aaron for Claire, because for some reason Claire cannot. Jack knows this, but is not okay with it (we don't know why yet). Kate doesn't want her mom to see the baby, or have the baby shown on TV because she doesn't want the child to be identified as not hers. Kate's mom might be able to tell that Aaron is not Kate's biological child.

I agree that Kate does not want anyone to see the baby because they will realize he loks nothing like here.

In another topic I said Kate has to convince everyone Aaron is hers. If not, people will want to know who had the baby if there were only six survivors of Oceanic 815 and the baby was born on the island.

You would think people would question that anyway since they weren't missing for nine months, and I am assuming not six.

i knew as soon as the episode was over that there would be a topic with this name....

sorry i'm not original enough for you, but i think it's likely to be somewhat significant. maybe you disagree, but i'm glad to see others thinking about it too.

IMHO Kate is not lying about Aaron being her biological child. My gut feeling is that Kate's attorney wanted to use Aaron in the trial to further Kate's heroic character. The lie is part of the "Big Lie" (i.e. the O6 cover story). Kate saved Jack's life in the crash AND Aaron's... then she cared for Aaron after the crash (then adopted Aaron after their rescue).

In reality, there is every indication that something has happened to Claire. My guess is that Claire gave Aaron to the O6 when they left to save him from some danger on the island. (Although her death is an intriguing possibility.)

I believe Jack's guilt comes from his knowledge that Aaron is his nephew and that deep down, he knows that removing Aaron from the Island (and Claire) was a mistake.

The psychic does tell Claire she must raise the baby herself but then toward the end of the episode he says he was wrong and gives her a plane ticket to L.A. where he's found a couple that will be good parents for the baby. I think he gives her $10k and then she'll get another $10k when she gets to L.A.

Kate is in L.A. and has "adopted" Aaron. Maybe she and Jack do get married and he adopts Aaron. What a twist since we know he's Aaron's uncle.
Claire So you're giving me 6000 dollars to give my baby to a couple of strangers in Los Angeles?
Richard: 12,000. The other 6 when you arrive in Los Angeles. And they're not strangers, Claire. They're good people.


For anyone that wants to refresh their memory without re-watching the episode you can read the transcripts at www.losthatch.com, it's amazing how things will seem when you read them.

thanks sam g and whoever else posted the other recap link. i'm looking forward to where this ends up...!

The thing is you can't really tie in these kinds of episodes that early in the show with the entire mythology, because at the time of writing that episode, I'm sure they didn't even know about Dharma, the Oceanic 6, who the Others were, what the monster was etc.

The psychic's persistence in getting Claire to board the plane, was because i presume he knew about the island, and he wanted Claire to crash there and start a new life. Either way there was no couple in LA to give the baby too, i'm pretty sure Charlie and Claire had this discussion in season 1 anyway, and they came to the conclusion that there was no LA couple, that he knew about this, and that he was really psychic.

I think it was just a fate thing, the show was primarily about fate/destiny back then, and less about massive conspiracies.

I think you're all missing a bigger piece here. Desmond saw Clare and Aaron board a helicopter. This has to be remembered ! I'm not sure how it ties in with this new info we have but it's something to remember. Maybe Claire is one of the 06 (8?) or worse maybe Claire was on her way to escaping but dies and Kate HAS to raise the baby because she is the only female 06 ? and only the people on the island would know about any thing 'special'

I also thought .. maybe it is her own baby and she just named it Aaron as well in memory?

LOST YOU MAKE MIND MIND GO INTO OVERDRIVE!!!

It should have implications...I didn't even think of that.

The thing is you can't really tie in these kinds of episodes that early in the show with the entire mythology, because at the time of writing that episode, I'm sure they didn't even know about Dharma, the Oceanic 6, who the Others were, what the monster was etc.

The psychic's persistence in getting Claire to board the plane, was because i presume he knew about the island, and he wanted Claire to crash there and start a new life. Either way there was no couple in LA to give the baby too, i'm pretty sure Charlie and Claire had this discussion in season 1 anyway, and they came to the conclusion that there was no LA couple, that he knew about this, and that he was really psychic.

I think it was just a fate thing, the show was primarily about fate/destiny back then, and less about massive conspiracies.

Straighteners -- You are not giving the writers enough credit!!! They may not have known specifics about the episode we are watching NOW when they were writing Raised By Another THEN, but they have always had the overall story in mind -- the story arc is set in place. They have to kind of know where the story is going (aaron WILL BE raised by another) in order to put the pieces in place to get it there.

This is just frustrating to me, because I'd like to think "Yeah, Malkin was psychic!" but...he told Eko he scammed people. So it's just hard for me to wrap my head around.

in one of eko's episodes in season 2 the psychic said that he was a fake. i think he just said that to claire to get her onto the island.
Ah, but see, I have always felt that it was Eko the psychic was lying to, for some uknown reason. I don't feel he was a fake. That reading was so chilling, so REAL/authentic-seeming to me. It was one of the most classic and defining scenes in LOST "canon". And this is a great topic (thank you to the original poster!), as I, for one, definitely thought of it last night during "Eggtown", BIG TIME.

"You must not allow him to be raised by another!" and "Without your spirit, your goodness..." he would be in great, great, apparently unspeakable danger. INTERESTING!

Maybe the physic meant "an OTHER", as in you must not allow the Others to get their hands on him and raise him. In that case, Claire has done what he said, she somehow protected him from the Others in those last few moments on the island by giving him to Kate and making sure he got away, even though for some reason she herself could not. So maybe it will be okay, in terms of Aaron not being raised by another, as long as he is with Kate, who is not "an Other", if you follow me.

I think that scene with the psychic is probably, of all the scenes ever on LOST, the one that I find myself harking back to the most, for some reason! And watching the last scene of "Eggtown" was no exception: major harking going on! "You must not allow him to be raised by another". So is Kate "another"? Or was Claire heeding the psychic's advice and PROTECTING Aaron from being raised by "an other" when she gave him to Kate (if that is even what happened)?

I don't know, but it is fascinating to contemplate and this topic is great. I tend to think that something must have happened in those last moments that was very chaotic and Aaron was in extreme danger, and Claire and Kate decided that, in order to protect him, Kate would have to take him with her off the island. That's just my gut feeling on it all. I think that Claire was trying to protect Aaron from being raised by another, in the sense that the psychic meant his warning to be taken, even though Kate is, literally, "another", as in, she ain't Claire.

WOW.
100%
Kate and her future significant other could be the "couple in LA" the psychic was referring to.
:thumbup1: Whoa. This is a possibly BRILLIANT insight! Wow. :ntworthy:
100%
The psychic was lying to Eko about being a fake. The fact is, Richard Malkin actually refused any money from Claire, and actually paid her, losing thousands of dollars in the process, just to insure that she raised the baby herself. He also spent months harassing her about raising the baby by herself; that's how afraid he was of the implications if she didn't. Malkin had no financial gain in his dealings with Claire, which proves he is not a fake and just didn't want to be investigated and exposed by Eko.
Okay, before I say what I'm about to say, let me just hasten to reiterate that I totally agree that the psychic was NOT a fake at all. I think his reading with Claire was as real as they come. That said, though, just to play devil's advocate for a minute: the fact that the psychic seemingly paid Claire with money from his own pocket, does not necessarily mean he wasn't a fake, as he have been funded/paid by whatever powerful entity (like for example Hanso/Widmore/Dharma-Initiative-Funders/et al.) was trying to get the key LOSTaways on their "list" to the island in the first place. I, for some reason, don't think this is the case, I think the psychic's reading was genuine, but I'm just saying that the fact that he seemingly lost thousands of dollars to get Claire onto that specific flight does not necessarily prove that he was the genuine psychic article. He could have been paid by very powerful people to get her (and little fetus Aaron) onto Flight 815.

(Again, though, I think the psychic's reading was sincere, real, and that he meant every word he said to Claire.)

Maybe if Claire was dying or couldn't be rescued for some reason, she rationalized that Kate would be a good mother to her baby, because she says that Kate would be a good mother in the episode, so she gave Aaron to kate to save him. Kate and Claire have always been friends so Claire probably thought she could trust Kate to make sure her baby didnt turn up evil.

On another note, when Jack's on trial for Kate, he mentions that Kate "tried" to save the other two survivors but Kate stops him. If one the dead "eight" origional survivors was Claire, maybe Kate didnt want to remind herself of Claire and the lie that she tried to save her and not that she stole Aaron from Claire .

Both could be equally true, i guess thats what makes this show so challenging to predict.

And this is a great topic (thank you to the original poster!), as I, for one, definitely thought of it last night during "Eggtown", BIG TIME.


You are welcome! That episode, to me, held many of the creepiest unanswered elements from the first season (and is still pretty unanswered, of course), so I was glad to have it come back to the forefront. I agree with a lot of what you said, esp. Kate having to rescue Aaron...

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it was some sort of "Wizard of Oz" scenario in which Claire and Aaron got onto the helicopter together but, for some unknown-to-us-as-of-yet reason, Claire got off at the last possible second, asking Kate to hold Aaron on her lap for a moment, fully planning to get back into the 'copter, but then somehow the chopper had to take off right then and there was a dramatic exchange between Kate and Claire, maybe even a non-verbal one of looks, but probably a verbal exchange in which Kate promises Claire she will take care of Aaron.

...'Course, I could be way, way off on this...but the LOST creative team does seem to love "The Wizard of Oz" as much as I do, so ...I mean, I can just PICTURE the scene in my mind as we speak!

"Come back! Oh, don't go without me! I'll be right back! Toto!"

no, aaron was not supposed to be raidest by an OTHER


lol i don't know


i knew as soon as the episode was over that there would be a topic with this name....

Clever!! I didn't think of that.

Also, do we really know that Aaron in this episode is the same one from the island? All logic points to a big ===> YES!!! However, this would mean something happened to Claire somewhere along the lines and have we ever had any foreshadowing this big??

i posted last week somewhere that, unfortunately, i think that desmond's vision only showed claire and aaron getting on the copter and it taking off. no way to know for sure what happened next, which leads us to now see that perhaps all did not go well and somehow claire is not with aaron any longer....

I have been loving the renewed thought about this plotline since last night. I've heard people mentioning in other threads that having Kate raise Aaron is a continuity error (ie, "did the writers forget he isn't supposed to be raised by another?"), but it's just the opposite - it's the continuation of a long developing plot arc. What WILL the consequences be? Will he turn out to be a "bad" child? Is he the main reason why Jack's life (and maybe later Kate's?) starts going down the tubes? Does he possess within him the will of the island, which Hurley feels is making them want to return?

Also, sier, your thought is pretty amazing. You're saying the psychic saw 3-4 years in the future, that Kate and Jack would be rescued and raise Aaron? That would be a shocking revelation.
The thing is you can't really tie in these kinds of episodes that early in the show with the entire mythology, because at the time of writing that episode, I'm sure they didn't even know about Dharma, the Oceanic 6, who the Others were, what the monster was etc.
BTW, you should know that all of the major landmarks of the show have been planned since before the pilot - including the nature of the monster, the presence of Dharma, and the flashforwards (I don't know if there being 6 survivors specifically was, but they have been planning to include FFs at the midpoint of the series). This has been said in numerous interviews by Damon and Carlton. In fact, Kristin at E! reported today that she was told by JJ Abrams BEFORE THE PILOT AIRED that Claire's unborn child would be a key mystery of the show. IMO, if they knew about the baby's significance, and about survivors having FFs, they always knew someone else would be raising him off the island.

Alert! I'm freaking out! I just went to the transcript site and read very carefully all the scenes between Claire and the psychic in "Raised by Another". OMG!

1. All this time, I sort of thought he meant "another" as "an OTHER", but now I'm not so sure because he is SO clear that the baby must be raised by you, yourself, nobody else, anybody else but YOU, yourself would leave the baby in great danger, and there is no happy life for this child without YOU. Reading it now, it sounds like he meant ANYONE else, anyone other than Claire would be: BAD. I'm suddenly VERY concerned about baby Aaron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. The following lines of Malkin have me FREAKED out, big time, and see if you can guess why before I say why:

CLAIRE: "So you're giving me 6000 dollars to give my baby to a couple of strangers in Los Angeles?

MALKIN: 12,000. The other 6 when you arrive in Los Angeles. And they're not strangers, Claire. They're good people."

:eek: Good people? GOOD PEOPLE? omg, omg, omg: That is EXACTLY what Ethan said to Claire when trying to convince her that they would take good care of Aaron: "We're good people, Claire. A good family". Didn't he?! OMG! So, what does that mean, does that mean that the psychic, knowing the plane would crash, wanted the Others to raise Aaron? Or was the phrase "...they're not strangers" even more important, hinting that the "couple in LA" is Kate and (who...Jack?), who are not going to be strangers at that point, and THEY are the "good people"?

Or WHAT?! I must know! I must know the answer to every mystery on LOST right NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! I can't go on like this!!!! I must know the fate of baby Aaron and what the psychic really meant by everything!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! Lockefan is freaking out! 4 8 15 16 23 42!

I think the reason that Jack doesn't want to see the child (Aaron, we know, now) is because he knows about why Kate has him. Someone, somewhere has the whole story so scripted for them that he can't bear to face some of it head on. The story they are forced to tell is quite far from the truth. Kate a hero, no I think not.

They have hinted since season one that Aaron would be raised by someone other than Claire.The episode where we met Richard Malkin was called Raised by Another, and Aaron is now being raised by another.

Based on what the psychic told Claire about Aaron, it at first seems like it is a bad thing that Aaron is off the island and being taken care of by Kate. I think that it was actually Aaron's destiny to be raised by Kate. Although it at first seemed like he was not supposed to be raised by anyone other than Claire.

Richard Malkin told Claire the following in Season one's episode Raised by Another.

"It is crucial that you, yourself raise this child...The child parented by anyone other than you- danger surrounds this baby...Your nature, your spirit, your goodness must be an influence in the development of this child. There is no happy life- not for this child, not without you... It can't be another.You mustn't allow another to raise your baby"

This all would make us think that Claire must raise the baby. Claire has however been apart of Aaron's life and has been part of his development. It seemed like the psychic kind of took back all of what he had said when he talked to Claire the final time before she got on the plane. At this meeting Malkin told Claire " I found a couple in Los Angelas who are very eager to adopt.The baby will be safe in their care... I know this sounds ridiculous ,Claire. All this psychic business and I appreciate that you must think I'm a raving madman.But this is what must happen...$12,000. The other 6 when you arrive in Los Angelas.And they're not strangers Claire. They're good people... It has to be this flight.It can't be any other.They're already scheduled to meet you when you arrive... Flight 815.Flight 815."

I believe the psychic knew the plane would crash on this island.He also knew that Claire would meet Kate and Jack.Jack was the first person to go to Claire after the crash. Since Claire met Jack and Kate after the crash, they are not strangers and they are both good people. Malkin said the couple lived in Los Angelas, which is where Kate and Jack live.
Claire had to be on this specific flight so that she would meet them.

I believe that the people that Sayid are killing for Ben, are not only after Ben but also after the baby. I think that Aaron is safe off the island as long as he is in the care of Kate or Jack.Anyone besides them or Claire would place the baby in great danger.

Macainickle

That's an interesting thought. And the specific amount of money-12,000 , 6 now, 6 later. Hmmm...

I think that the baby being raised by another, off-island, is all part of the HUGE mistake that everyone made who's off the island. Everything is terrible for them, and rescue wasn't supposed to happen, so this is just another piece of the bad consequence.

I've only skimmed this long thread, so I may be repeating someone.

Aaron isn't Claire's Aaron. He's Kate and Sawyer's son and this is why Jack won't visit him.

How would a presumed felon have gotten custody in any way shape or form over Claire's Aaron? Claire has no family to claim him? Jack still doesn't know of their familial connection in the future? What about Aaron's planned adoptive family?

Possibly Claire and Aaron die somehow and Kate honors them by naming her baby Aaron?

Anyone able to determine how long the survivors spent on the island total? Kate's Aaron appears to be about 2 in the flash forward.

I'll be disappointed if Kate is raising Claire's baby somehow - it's too predictable, what everyone is assuming - there must be a big twist somehow.

I've only skimmed this long thread, so I may be repeating someone.

Aaron isn't Claire's Aaron. He's Kate and Sawyer's son and this is why Jack won't visit him.

How would a presumed felon have gotten custody in any way shape or form over Claire's Aaron? Claire has no family to claim him? Jack still doesn't know of their familial connection in the future? What about Aaron's planned adoptive family?

Possibly Claire and Aaron die somehow and Kate honors them by naming her baby Aaron?

Anyone able to determine how long the survivors spent on the island total? Kate's Aaron appears to be about 2 in the flash forward.

I'll be disappointed if Kate is raising Claire's baby somehow - it's too predictable, what everyone is assuming - there must be a big twist somehow.

I disagree. Aaron is Claires Aaron. They foreshadowed this during the entire episode with Kate being around Claire. This also brings the mysterious prophecy back into play.

I'll be disappointed if Kate is raising Claire's baby somehow - it's too predictable, what everyone is assuming - there must be a big twist somehow. You and I feel completely opposite on the issue! I thought it was too predictable and boring that the baby was Sawyer's and was shocked/relieved that the twist at the end revealed the baby to be Aaron (as in Claire's Aaron).

There is just so much more storyline potential with Kate raising Aaron, especially given the whole "Raised by Another" prophecy, that it would be very anticlimactic if the baby was really Kate and Sawyer's.

We don't know the circumstances surrounding how and why Kate is raising Aaron, so I don't think anyone can claim that "it doesn't make sense" for Kate to be raising Claire's child until we see more pieces of the puzzle.

I thought it was a great unexpected twist at the end, personally.

In another topic I said Kate has to convince everyone Aaron is hers. If not, people will want to know who had the baby if there were only six survivors of Oceanic 815 and the baby was born on the island.

You would think people would question that anyway since they weren't missing for nine months, and I am assuming not six.

We don't know how long they were missing, either in their own time frame, or in the outside world's. But I think the better reason why she has to lie about it being her biological child is because they don't allow criminals to adopt.
100%
How would a presumed felon have gotten custody in any way shape or form over Claire's Aaron? Claire has no family to claim him?
Because when she was dying, Claire told her she wanted her to raise him as her own.

Jack still doesn't know of their familial connection in the future?
He probably does, which explains why he's not comfortable having to go see his father's illegitimate grandson being raised by his girlfriend.

What about Aaron's planned adoptive family?
They never existed anyway.

The Hand That Rocks The Cradel Rules The World! This is who brings us our vaules, our nurturing, love and our general out-look on life and our place with in that world. If Aaron was raised by another according to the psyhic perhaps this means all will become negative if raised by another. "one of them" who ever "they are" raised under the watchfull eye of a sinister group.

This again reminds of 6 around one or 12 around one, something I mentioned on the Ho Ho Ho thread.......

Perhaps depending on who is he raised by will effect his choices later in life that may bring or may not bring Chaos to the world. Depending on who is teaching him right from wrong. Is the child learning "love" or is the child learning "evil". "love" is used in both worlds, groups, familes with completey different meanings.

At the risk of coming across as self-promoting, I wanted to mention that there's another thread (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=89709) that's being discussed in this episode's board that directly effects this subject of Aaron and his fate. In Aaron's room we see a painting (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=109663&fullsize=1) above the dresser that shows a blonde boy riding a bicycle (Aaron?). In the background are some houses that look similar to the drawing of houses representing the Barracks that were shown on the Swan station's mural. And there in the foreground of this painting is a clothespin holding two playing cards: a Seven of Spades and what appears to be the Queen of Hearts (this second card is a bit difficult to read, since it's covered up by the Seven above it).

Now, if this painting represents Aaron - what do all the elements in the painting signify? And to answer that we can use the playing cards to help figure this out. Playing cards were derived from the older Tarot deck, and there still are a lot of people who use playing cards in lieu of Tarot cards to do divination readings. Each of the four suits in the playing card deck came originally from a Tarot suit, so it is quite easy to make the switch and to interpret the playing cards in the painting as if they were Tarot cards.

So, what do the cards mean? To read a much more detailed answer to that, go to the thread discussing this directly (it's called "Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards"), but here is a very brief summation:

The Seven of Spades would be the Seven of Swords (http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=23&cardID=56) in the Tarot deck. The Queen of Hearts (if that is indeed what that second card is) would be the Queen of Cups (http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=23&cardID=48) in the Tarot deck.

The way that the Seven lays over the Queen signifies that it has "trumped" the Queen. The Seven represents theft, kidnapping, betrayal, taking the easy way out, running away from responsibilities. The Queen represents someone (a woman perhaps) who is blonde and fair who is nurturing, sensitive and intuitive.

So, one interpretation of these two cards juxtaposed the way they are in the painting that shows Aaron on a bicycle is: Someone has stolen/kidnapped Aaron from Claire.

Of course, this is open to debate. I just wanted to share this with you all in this thread, since it seems to indicate that Aaron IS Claire's Aaron, and that Kate has taken him away through less-than-honorable means. Comments welcome.

Kate and her future significant other could be the "couple in LA" the psychic was referring to.

That's an interesting idea. It could relate to the island time discrepancy.

Another thing I was thinking of was that when Jack says to Kate in Through the Looking Glass 'We were not supposed to leave' he is talking about himself and Kate in reference to Aaron. He is saying Claire was meant to leave with Aaron, not Kate, fulfilling Desmond's vision of Claire and Aaron leaving and fulfilling what the physic says about Claire having to be the one that raises the baby.

Perhaps we later find out that someone else was meant to leave in Jack's place too.

Question. Do you know the exact birth date of Aaron? It was the day Boone died, and then it should be day 41 on the island. November 1st?

That's what Lostpedia has:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline:November_2004

Thank you.

IMHO, I think the prophecy is not: "raised by another" but:

"Raised By An Other"

which would explain why Aaron had to get off the island, and away from the Others, Jacob, Ben, etc.

Just my two cents....

IMHO, I think the prophecy is not: "raised by another" but:

"Raised By An Other"

which would explain why Aaron had to get off the island, and away from the Others, Jacob, Ben, etc.

Just my two cents....

Are you 100% sure about "Raised By An Other"??
100%
Here is what I found....

"The psychic opens his door to find Claire there, requesting a second reading. She jokes as he counts her cash, and the psychic notes that Claire has been dumped. He asks if she wishes to continue after what he saw last time, and she agrees. He says that it is crucial that Claire raises the child herself, and that her goodness must influence her baby’s development. "

So clearly.... Kate may have "bad" influences.

What if its not "raised by another", but "raised by an Other"

As long as its not raised by an "Other" then everythings OK. Kate is not an Other

Or maybe, you know, the psychic is a fraud.

I'm just sayin'.

Ah, but see, I have always felt that it was Eko the psychic was lying to, for some uknown reason. I don't feel he was a fake. That reading was so chilling, so REAL/authentic-seeming to me. It was one of the most classic and defining scenes in LOST "canon". And this is a great topic (thank you to the original poster!), as I, for one, definitely thought of it last night during "Eggtown", BIG TIME.

"You must not allow him to be raised by another!" and "Without your spirit, your goodness..." he would be in great, great, apparently unspeakable danger. INTERESTING!

Maybe the physic meant "an OTHER", as in you must not allow the Others to get their hands on him and raise him. In that case, Claire has done what he said, she somehow protected him from the Others in those last few moments on the island by giving him to Kate and making sure he got away, even though for some reason she herself could not. So maybe it will be okay, in terms of Aaron not being raised by another, as long as he is with Kate, who is not "an Other", if you follow me.

I think that scene with the psychic is probably, of all the scenes ever on LOST, the one that I find myself harking back to the most, for some reason! And watching the last scene of "Eggtown" was no exception: major harking going on! "You must not allow him to be raised by another". So is Kate "another"? Or was Claire heeding the psychic's advice and PROTECTING Aaron from being raised by "an other" when she gave him to Kate (if that is even what happened)?

I don't know, but it is fascinating to contemplate and this topic is great. I tend to think that something must have happened in those last moments that was very chaotic and Aaron was in extreme danger, and Claire and Kate decided that, in order to protect him, Kate would have to take him with her off the island. That's just my gut feeling on it all. I think that Claire was trying to protect Aaron from being raised by another, in the sense that the psychic meant his warning to be taken, even though Kate is, literally, "another", as in, she ain't Claire.

(Again, though, I think the psychic's reading was sincere, real, and that he meant every word he said to Claire.)

I agree...I think that Malkin told Eko this because he didn't want Eko to investigate his daughter Charlotte's near death experience. If you remember, Eko went to him at the request of the Catholic Church to determine if a miracle happened.

This was Malkin's way of losing credibility with Eko and having him leave without conducting the interview.

I believe he did tell Claire the truth.

Wish I could remember what Charlotte told Eko when she caught up to him in the airport? I know she mentioned Yemi but I don't think she said anything about Claire/Aaron

i posted last week somewhere that, unfortunately, i think that desmond's vision only showed claire and aaron getting on the copter and it taking off. no way to know for sure what happened next, which leads us to now see that perhaps all did not go well and somehow claire is not with aaron any longer....

Claire could very well get on the cpoter and even leave the island...maybe she is not allowed to leave the ship though. I keep thinking about Mrs Hawking saying that a course correction will always happen...is Claire supposed to raise Aaron? Will the course correction take place and Aaron and Claire will be reunited? Will Jack and Kate take Aaron back to the island with them?

Lot's of questions huh?

At the risk of coming across as self-promoting, I wanted to mention that there's another thread (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=89709) that's being discussed in this episode's board that directly effects this subject of Aaron and his fate. In Aaron's room we see a painting (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=109663&fullsize=1) above the dresser that shows a blonde boy riding a bicycle (Aaron?). In the background are some houses that look similar to the drawing of houses representing the Barracks that were shown on the Swan station's mural. And there in the foreground of this painting is a clothespin holding two playing cards: a Seven of Spades and what appears to be the Queen of Hearts (this second card is a bit difficult to read, since it's covered up by the Seven above it).

Now, if this painting represents Aaron - what do all the elements in the painting signify? And to answer that we can use the playing cards to help figure this out. Playing cards were derived from the older Tarot deck, and there still are a lot of people who use playing cards in lieu of Tarot cards to do divination readings. Each of the four suits in the playing card deck came originally from a Tarot suit, so it is quite easy to make the switch and to interpret the playing cards in the painting as if they were Tarot cards.

So, what do the cards mean? To read a much more detailed answer to that, go to the thread discussing this directly (it's called "Tarot Reading of Daniel's Cards"), but here is a very brief summation:

The Seven of Spades would be the Seven of Swords (http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=23&cardID=56) in the Tarot deck. The Queen of Hearts (if that is indeed what that second card is) would be the Queen of Cups (http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=23&cardID=48) in the Tarot deck.

The way that the Seven lays over the Queen signifies that it has "trumped" the Queen. The Seven represents theft, kidnapping, betrayal, taking the easy way out, running away from responsibilities. The Queen represents someone (a woman perhaps) who is blonde and fair who is nurturing, sensitive and intuitive.

So, one interpretation of these two cards juxtaposed the way they are in the painting that shows Aaron on a bicycle is: Someone has stolen/kidnapped Aaron from Claire.

Of course, this is open to debate. I just wanted to share this with you all in this thread, since it seems to indicate that Aaron IS Claire's Aaron, and that Kate has taken him away through less-than-honorable means. Comments welcome.

This is a great thread for those of us not familiar with Tarot...a must read to understand Eggtown in my opinion!!!!!

I think its weird how Kate acted so strange when Claire asked her to hold Aaron for a minute while she did the laundry. I mean she acted like Aaron was cursed or something.

Can someone quickly recap this season 1 episode in conjunction now with aaron being raised by another?

I'll likely watch it this weekend but interested to see what others think now. Sorry if this has already been started, I couldn't find it...

Thanks for raising this. Like you, I was wondering whether other people would be re-examining the Aaron story arc in light of the final scene of "Eggtown."

As you know, the title "Raised by Another" is something of a joke. It is a homophone to "Raised By An Other." In the episode, Richard Malkin tells Claire that Aaron must not be raised by "another" ("An Other"). On a subsequent visit, he tells Claire that he knows some "good people" (where have we heard that phrase before?) in LA who will take Aaron in adoption. This leads to Claire taking Flight 815 (Malkin insists that she be on that flight and no other.)

This, in hindsight, raises some questions: Why does Malkin contradict himself, telling Claire one time that she must raise Aaron, and then arranging things so that he can be raised by someone else? Who or what got to Malkin?

Malkin's insistence that Claire be on 815 also suggests, as I have theorized elsewhere, that it was already arranged for 815 to wind up on the Island, something that was "arranged" in advance by higher powers working behind the scenes.

It cannot be a coincidence that ALL the people who happen to carry Shepard genes on the entire continent of Australia wound up on the same plane.

I, too, think that there is a connection among Jacob, Aaron and the Shepards. I have said elsewhere that "specialness" has a genetic component, and that the Shepard line is very special.

I am not yet sure quite what the connection is but consider this:

-When Hurley looks into Jacob's cabin, the figure he sees in the chair is Christian Shepard (according to screen caps)

-Christian Shepard is Aaron's grandfather. In the Bible, Jacob is Aaron's great-great-grandfather.

-Jacob was a Shepard by profession. He was also the first person in the Bible to refer to God as a "Shepard."

-Claire was brought to Richard Malkin by her best friend, Rachel. Rachel was Jacob's wife in the Bible.

-LOST is, in some sense, about the End of the World (as predicted by the Valenzetti Equation, whose core values are the numbers). It is also, in some sense (again, I don't know exactly what sense yet) about a Evil Power out there beyond the Island. Jacob had a vision ("Jacob's Ladder") in which he saw that the ultimate evil empire, Edom, (whose guardian angel was Jacob's evil twin, Esau) would fall at the End of Days.

I also think that "specialness" is both genetic and environmental. It is enhanced to the degree that one is conceived on the Island, born on the Island and/or raised on the Island. Aaron was not conceived on the Island, but he was conceived near something that (in my opinion) is similar, the Australian vortex (Australian version of the Bermuda Triangle). This, of course, is what allows his mom to survive childbirth, since only women who conceive on the Island die. He was raised in part on the Island.

The Others obviously think he is special, since they risked Ethan's life to get him an inoculation.

One thing that is certain: Aaron is being raised in the FF by "another." Is he also being raised by "An Other?" If (as I believe is the case) Adam and Eve turn out to be Kate and Jack, that would mean that (via a time loop) Kate is one of the original inhabitants of the Island and, by definition, "an Other."

Whether this is good or bad is still to be seen: Did Kate (and the rest of the Oceanic 6) make some sort of "deal with the Devil" to get themselves off the Island, taking Aaron with them?(Certainly, since Kate was facing a charges that potentially carry the Death Penalty, she would have to have one HECK of an incentive to leave the Island. No such incentive has been disclosed as yet)

Does Jack, in "Looking Glass" finally realize that leaving was a mistake, and want to "get back" (with Aaron) to "fix things?" (Getting back could mean that Aaron would ultimately be raised by Claire, and that he would grow up on the Island, thus guaranteeing both his "goodness" and his "specialness.")

Does Kate, ever watching out for Kate, simply refuse to do so because the deal worked out well for her? Only time will tell.

A sidelight: I have long been fascinated by the story that, in the original drafts of LOST, Kate was supposed to be an ordinary housewife who takes over leadership of the Survivors when Jack is killed off in the pilot episode. I often wonder what that LOST would have been like (maybe it would have been re-titled "Really Desperate Housewives.")

Does it strike anyone else that the story that Jack told on the witness stand about Kate's heroics was a rendition of that alternate version of LOST?

I agree that the couple in LA could be Kate and Jack, and Malkin could have actually envisioned this as a good solution. However, the warning against being RBA seemed a bit stronger and had no "bribe money" involved to make it confusing.

IMO we're supposed to be flip flopping between which of the two versions to believe, as the one that is true will be telling about Claire's ultimate fate.

The problem with the whole the psychic is a fraud theory is that the psychic originally refused to do Claire's reading and turned her away, which is a mighty big gamble if you ask me. If Malkin was a fraud and was paid by people to get Claire on the plane, how could anyone have suspected that after turning her away, she would come back later to see him of her own free will? Sure you could say they anticipated her to come back out of morbid curiosity, but it still makes it highly circumstantial. Not to mention if Claire had agreed to raise the baby herself and had no doubts about it, Malkin would never have put her on the plane to begin with! If he was trying to get Claire on the plane from the get go, refusing to do her reading initially and then later telling her that she had to raise the baby herself might not have been the best approach since she could have just as easily not put up a fight and agreed to raise the baby herself. ;)

Also, the crash of Flight 815 was in and of itself an "accident". There is no way anyone (without psychic powers) could have predicted that Desmond wouldn't have entered the numbers into the computer at the exact moment Flight 815 was flying over head thus causing the magnetic "incident" that crashed their plane. Plus, there have been enough six degrees of separation and chance encounters connecting the survivors to each other spanning decades, for it to have all been orchestrated. While there is no doubt a massive conspiracy going on regarding the crash of Flight 815, I think some people are underestimating the presence of destiny and fate on this show that has long since been established as being very real in the show's universe.

I have already expressed in this thread that there is no doubt in my mind that the psychic is real. As for the whole "raised by another" dispute, while one could interpret the intentional play on words to mean "raised by AN other", the psychic most definitely reiterated the fact numerous times that NO ONE else, meaning ANYONE, besides Claire should raise the baby. He didn't even want Claire to give the baby up for adoption.

I also don't believe that there was a couple in Los Angeles. As for it possibly being Jack and Kate he was referring to, there is no indication that they ever even end up together as a couple. Last I recall, in Jack's flash forward, he hadn't seen Kate in awhile and was desperate to get in contact with her. The supposed couple in LA was merely a lie to get Claire on Flight 815 in the first place because, being the legitimate psychic that he is, he knew the plane was going to crash on the island to thus, what he thought, force her to raise the baby herself. He himself said that he didn't know how his powers worked and he couldn't exactly choose his visions. The funny thing about psychic visions and prophecies is that they don't always reveal all ends to a situation and can be very misleading. It is entirely possible that he had no idea about the Others on the island or the threats that Claire and Aaron would be facing. All the psychic knew was that his vision of what would happen if Claire didn't raise Aaron herself was SO BAD, he was willing to take DRASTIC measures to ensure what he thought was an act forcing Claire to raise the baby herself. And THAT is what makes the current development of Kate now raising Aaron so dire and shocking! This has been a storyline in the works since Season 1. The twist at the end was designed, in my opinion, to be unsettling given what we know the psychic told Claire.

Dang, of course (seems every thread I post in on the 'lage gets moved, merged, whatever) they merged the thread "raised by another" into "another" (!) thread, and it just took me longer to find this bad boy than it is taking Jack to find just the right Oceanic flight to hop aboard that will somehow crash right onto the island again *lol*!

ANYWAY: Friday afternoon, after work, I rushed home and popped "Raised by Another" into ye olde DVD player. Maaaaaaaaaaan, so much to say:

1. Sort of an aside, but that has got to be one of the best LOST episodes of all time, which is saying a lot, considering how great all the episodes are!

2. I had forgotten about Claire's dream/vision early in the episode, wherein Locke admonishes her for giving Aaron away (which she obviously had not done at that point!), saying (bolded emphasis added):

"CLAIRE: What's happening?

LOCKE: You know what's happening.

CLAIRE: But I don't understand. Why --?

LOCKE: He was your responsibility but you gave him away, Claire. Everyone pays the price now."

source: http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/Raised_By_Another_Lost.htm

Okay, color me blown away, watching that now in Season Four, in the context of what we now know post-"Eggtown"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At the time (Season One) of initially watching "Raised by Another", I probably assumed that Claire was just having a bad dream, induced by anxiety over her baby's impending birth and going through it all on the island, etc., and tinged with the warnings the psychic gave her. But NOW? omg! Locke saying: "He was your responsibility but you gave him away, Claire. Everyone pays the price now."? WOW!!! Draw your own conclusions, people, but isn't that dream/vision FASCINATING, in the context of what we now know about Kate having Aaron off-island and how tortured the Oceanic Six all seem to be, yada yada YADA? WOW! Intense, maaaaahn!*

3. Malkin's reading: I used to think he probably meant, you must not allow him to be raised by an OTHER, but now, watching it again with intent focus on Malkin's words, it seems crystal clear to moi that he meant, you must not allow ANYONE other than you, yourself, no one else, not anyone else, just YOU, to raise Aaron!

As for the "couple in LA" possibly being a reference to Kate and whoever she ends up with, I don't think so now upon re-watching it, although that was an insightful thought by the poster who suggested it. I think Malkin was trying to get Claire's patootie onto Oceanic Flight 815 because he knew it would crash, and he knew Claire would then not be able to give Aaron up for adoption. Flight 815 was bound for LA, so naturally, he said there was a "couple in LA" ...Of course, it could be argued, then, that he should have also known that whatever happened later resulting in Aaron ending up with Kate would happen, too...so, I dunno if Malkin would be okay with that or not but my feeling is: NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *LOL*! I really feel (and re-watch the episode, you'll see what I mean) that Malkin meant one thing: YOU, Claire, must raise Aaron yourself. Any other scenario (not pun intended with "other scenario" *lol*) would mean great danger for Aaron, and possibly for everyone else in the picture...and maybe even for the WORLD! But definitely for Aaron. He says "great danger surrounds this child", which could be taken to mean great danger for Aaron and/OR great danger for people around him.

I don't know but I'm now newly OBSESSED with this particular storyline!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love LOST. What a delicious obsession it is. And it is amazing how well-planned out the whole story arc is of the series, because when you do go back to Season One and watch "Raised by Another", everything now takes on a whole, deeper, clearer meaning. Like Claire's dream. Whoa.

Color me rivetted. But what else is new when it comes to LOST?

* edited to add: And also in the context of what we now know about how some dreams/visions on the island are very prophetic and real, and seem definitely to be more visions than "mere" dreams, if you see my distinction.

"Everyone pays the price now." Whoa!

I have always felt that Lost rejected psychics. We had Malkin explaining that he was a fraud to Eko. Then there was Lynn Karnoff (http://en.lostpedia.com/wiki/Lynn_Karnoff), who eventually admitted (when Hurley offered $10,000 to her) that Hurley's dad set the whole thing up.

In Lost, I think off-island psychics are frauds (*cough* Miles *cough*). Real psychics are people like Walt, and perhaps Carl.

I think Malkin was paid a lot of money to tell Miss Littleton to raise the baby herself. Remember, Malkin quickly switched from "raise it yourself" to "I found a couple in LA." He wasn't being straight with her... the issue wasn't who was going to raise the baby, the issue was that somebody wanted to keep tabs on Aaron. If she gave him up for adoption, it would be harder to trace him.

MALKIN: I know why you're here, friend. But you can save yourself the trouble. What happened here was not a miracle.

EKO: The doctor that treated your daughter seems to feel differently.

MALKIN: Treated her? He tried to cut her open. He's just trying to cover up his own negligence. He tell you the whole story -- how she supposedly drowned? She fell into a mountain river, her body shut down; she went into hypothermia which made her appear dead.

EKO: And why is your wife so convinced otherwise?

MALKIN: Because she's a zealot. All of this -- everything she's doing -- is to spite me.

EKO: Why would she spite you?

MALKIN: Because she knows I'm a fraud. Because I make my living as a psychic. You see, that's what I do. I gather intelligence on people and I exploit it. Everyday I meet people looking for a miracle, desperate to find one. But there are none to be had. Not in this world, anyway.

There are no miracles to be found... in this world. On the island, there sure are...

I always thought Malkin meant "another" as in, anyone else, not the others. This was part of the reason the universe killed off Charlie. Charlie was getting too close to becoming a father figure to the child, and NO ONE else can raise this child but Claire. What does this hold for Kate/everyone else? We'll see

IMO we're supposed to be flip flopping between which of the two versions to believe, as the one that is true will be telling about Claire's ultimate fate.
Yeah, I think this may be as far as we are meant to get so far in answering these questions. Lost does this to us so much - we argue and argue (or discuss :)) sides for ages and then feel a bit silly when we realize we were set up to disagree with each other! :p I :heart: these writers - oh how they love to mess with us!

Dang, of course (seems every thread I post in on the 'lage gets moved, merged, whatever) they merged the thread "raised by another" into "another" (!) thread, and it just took me longer to find this bad boy than it is taking Jack to find just the right Oceanic flight to hop aboard that will somehow crash right onto the island again *lol*!
You probably know this already, but if you are subscribed to a thread, it will pop up in your User CP even if it gets merged.
LOCKE: He was your responsibility but you gave him away, Claire. Everyone pays the price now."
Awesome - thanks for bringing this back up. The Losties are so screwed!

Really hate the writers if this is the case: the prophecy has already been fulfilled and has no bearing on Eggtown! Consider this:

"Raised by another...". This was broken when Claire began raising Aaron herself, vice immediately giving him for adoption at birth. Now she's dead or whatever, and never violated the vision.

"Raised by an Other...". This was broken when she escaped from Ethan, and Aaron was Not raised by the others.

Whomever Kate's Aaron is, it is now meaningless!!! In your face, loyal viewing audience! ;-)

greg_achen and Lockefan - Greg thank you for pointing out that Malkin sent Claire away the first time she visited with Rachel. To me that is the proof that Malkin had a real vision. He may have been a shyster/fraud/fake in every other reading but this one, which scared him because he actually did see something and the thing he saw was BIG and not good. He pushed it away. Claire had no prompting by anyone to go back and see Malkin, it was her own free will.

Lockefan:

There were hints that Claire's vision of Locke were connected to Malkin:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-237-24.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-237-220.html

It's really important to go back and rewatch the episodes as opposed to thinking you remember what you saw and heard the first time.

Aaron was the first live birth on the island.

The second, as far as we know. Don't forget about Alex.

I disagree. I think Claire dies. Actually I read that the end of the episode would be a big hint at the next person to die.

I sure hope so. Besides having Aaron, she has less island value than Shannon ever did. And without Charlie around to torment, she is pointless.

I also think there is only one Aaron and that is Claire's. Having Kate name her baby after Aaron is too sappy for this show.

Absolutely. But an interesting question comes to mind - What if there IS more than one Aaron in the future? Think about the impossible idea of there being multiple copies of the Desomond/Penny photograph. Relate that to the latest Dharma orientation video, where everyone freaks out because rabbits from two different times come together. All of these time loop theories are being proven to have merit with each episode. How will it affect those who are leaving the island?

Okay, before I say what I'm about to say, let me just hasten to reiterate that I totally agree that the psychic was NOT a fake at all. I think his reading with Claire was as real as they come. That said, though, just to play devil's advocate for a minute: the fact that the psychic seemingly paid Claire with money from his own pocket, does not necessarily mean he wasn't a fake, as he have been funded/paid by whatever powerful entity (like for example Hanso/Widmore/Dharma-Initiative-Funders/et al.) was trying to get the key LOSTaways on their "list" to the island in the first place. I, for some reason, don't think this is the case, I think the psychic's reading was genuine, but I'm just saying that the fact that he seemingly lost thousands of dollars to get Claire onto that specific flight does not necessarily prove that he was the genuine psychic article. He could have been paid by very powerful people to get her (and little fetus Aaron) onto Flight 815.

(Again, though, I think the psychic's reading was sincere, real, and that he meant every word he said to Claire.)

You should trust your instincts. There is a previously unseen clip in the Season 2 DVD (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Season_2_DVD) Lost Connections (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Lost_Connections) from Eko to Richard Malkin. Malkin tells Eko that he was paid $16,000 by a couple in Los Angeles to convince a pregnant girl to board a plane. I'm not saying that this information is "canon", but it's out there and I haven't seen it mentioned on this post.

Okay, color me blown away, watching that now in Season Four, in the context of what we now know post-"Eggtown"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At the time (Season One) of initially watching "Raised by Another", I probably assumed that Claire was just having a bad dream, induced by anxiety over her baby's impending birth and going through it all on the island, etc., and tinged with the warnings the psychic gave her. But NOW? omg! Locke saying: "He was your responsibility but you gave him away, Claire. Everyone pays the price now."? WOW!!! Draw your own conclusions, people, but isn't that dream/vision FASCINATING, in the context of what we now know about Kate having Aaron off-island and how tortured the Oceanic Six all seem to be, yada yada YADA? WOW! Intense, maaaaahn!*

Color me in agreement. Nice catch. If I'm going to trust anyone on this island, it would be John Locke, even in a dream sequence.

:confused: So much to think about, and so much contradictory evidence. I'm going to go with a theory that has very little evidence: Aaron is evil, and is using his powers to control Kate. I mean, come on - That woman we saw in the future was not really Kate, was it?

It's really important to go back and rewatch the episodes as opposed to thinking you remember what you saw and heard the first time.
Another good way is to read the script. I have the script from RBA in PDF - and it makes it CLEAR that the psychic is REAL. There used to be a site that posted them, before script security got really tight. Sam, I can't find the old thread or the site itself on google. Did it disappear?

Yes, Jenny pressexcute shut down and I thought Dark had them on his site but haven't found it. The transcripts are all over the place but not the same thing. Still looking.

Cool, thanks Sam.

http://www.darkufo.co.uk/tabularasa.pdf

I think Dark has them but I can't find how he has them listed.

Really hate the writers if this is the case: the prophecy has already been fulfilled and has no bearing on Eggtown! Consider this:

"Raised by another...". This was broken when Claire began raising Aaron herself, vice immediately giving him for adoption at birth. Now she's dead or whatever, and never violated the vision.

"Raised by an Other...". This was broken when she escaped from Ethan, and Aaron was Not raised by the others.

Whomever Kate's Aaron is, it is now meaningless!!! In your face, loyal viewing audience! ;-)
Aaron being RBA is a challenge that can be faced more than once! It by no means ended with either of the two events that you describe.

Also, viewing the new the Video Podcast - Evie is pretty clear about Aaron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa7771V1RCU

As far as raised.... I don't know if 50+days would actually classify as "raised". To me, raised means more than that.

So last night I was bored and was searching through my old threads here at The Fuselage. I have been a member of these forums since the middle of Season 1 and I seemed to have remembered myself posting a topic about the whole prophecy all the way back then, and I did!

On April 13, 2005 at 6:37pm, I made the following prediction:

Somehow I think that Claire is desitined to lose the baby, either through the baby being kidnapped or through her own death. I mean the show dedicated a whole episode constantly reinforcing to us [the audience] about how Claire had to raise her child herself, otherwise something really really bad would happen. The psychic was even willing to send her on a doomed plane just so that she would be forced to raise the baby! Obviously the show plans on going somewhere with all this. They wouldn't just set something up like that and never give us a pay off. It was also strongly implied that if Claire didn't raise the baby, the child would become evil, hence why her innate goodness had to rub off on it.

Would someone please pat me on the head? lol :biggrin:

Anyway, if you want to check out the thread where myself and some earlier fans posted our thoughts about the whole prophecy almost 3 years ago, you can check it out here: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=9855

*pat*

Just a quick thought,...if Aaron is "special",...can we assume that Jack is also "special" in the same way? He is Aaron's uncle,...is it a male genetic thing, or does it include both sexes? If so, is Claire "special" too?

As far as Aaron being raised by Claire, or somebody else,..I think the psychic Malkin, was being coerced to put Claire on the 815 flight. For some unknown reason, Claire was warned by Malkin, that she must raise Aaron,..nobody else. Somebody wants to keep them together. Perhaps, Aaron grows up without Claire, and becomes a total terror? If she raises him, he learns to use his powers for good, instead of evil? Kind of simplistic,...sorry.

I think, if Kate is raising Aaron, Claire's son, something happened to Claire. She is either dead, or she has been left behind. I do not think Claire would willingly part with Aaron,..not now.

Good question. The psychoic did tell Claire her baby must not be raised by another and now Kate is raising Aaron who is another. I wonder what the effect will be for this.
But remember that psychic is a fake, he admitted to Eko in his flashback...

Awesome - thanks for bringing this [Claire's dream-vision in "Raised by Another", in which Locke tells her that because she gave Aaron away, "everybody pays the price now".] back up. The Losties are so screwed!
You are welcome, I was SO blown away when I re-watched "Raised by Another" this past Friday, after "Eggtown", and saw Claire's "dream" again.* I really think it was more of a vision, and as we've seen on LOST, dream-visions are often pre-cognitive, for example, Locke's dream-vision about finding the small, Nigerian plane--among other things that that dream was about! Staying with that example, the dream-vision also contained information previously unknown to Locke, such as that Boone had a connection to someone named "Teresa", who "fell up and down the stairs", which Boone confirmed to Locke really happened. So I feel that Claire's dream-vision in which Locke tells her that now everybody has to pay the price for her giving Aaron away, was precognitive in a way, fortelling the future. I strongly feel now that Locke was referring to what, at that point, was something that was going to happen in the future, yet he was referring to it in that vision as past tense. Future and past, time in general, definitely seems to get muddled up on the island (look at Desmond, for example!). Anyway, in my opinion at this point, for us, the audience, it (Claire's dream) was foreshadowing, big time, of whatever happened to make Claire give Aaron away to Kate, and the resulting "great danger" the psychic foresaw, that made "everybody pay now".

Scary!

On another note, I hope that the theory that Aaron might be some sort of evil child, that only Claire's good influence and love can counteract, isn't correct. I am rooting for Aaron to be "good"--or a mix of good and bad potentials, just as all us humans are, and I'm hoping that the psychic was referring to great danger that could befall Aaron if Claire doesn't raise him, as well as possibly referring to the fact that Aaron is very special, clairvoyent (I think his momma's name, Claire, is a hint to us about that), and that without Claire's protection, others (not necessarily THE others, but other people, them included fer shuuuuur, but not necessarily just limited to them) would exploit that for bad purposes. But Aaron himself is a sweetheart, I'm hoping! I mean: we love our Turniphead, he can't be a "bad seed"! No, I think he is a sweetie with a great gift that others will try to use for evil purposes, that is why he needs Claire's protection.

Meanwhile, I can't wait to find out EVERYTHING about every single mystery on LOST! Ever since "Eggtown", my curiousity has reached a rousing crescendo of intensity and I can't take it anymore, I tells ya! ...But I must. Thank Jacob, because if we knew everything, that would mean that we don't have several years left to look forward to of this brilliant series...and that would be way more unbearable than all these delectable mysteries, the mystery of Aaron being one of the most compelling of the entire series. ...It's unbearable not knowing, but it's a good kind of unbearable *lol*!
100%
Another good way is to read the script. I have the script from RBA in PDF - and it makes it CLEAR that the psychic is REAL. There used to be a site that posted them, before script security got really tight. Sam, I can't find the old thread or the site itself on google. Did it disappear?
To quote the great Sawyer: hang on a tick! Do you mean that the actual scripts that the actors get are different, like with more side notes and stuff, than the transcripts one can find on the web, and do you further mean that in the particular script for "Raised by Another", there is something or several somethings that clearly indicate that Malkin was/is the real deal, psychic-wise? THIS IS HUGE, if so! Of course, I had already concluded that long ago, but one can never be sure when it comes to LOST. Anyway, if you can elaborate on what the RBA script said that makes you so positive, please do, but you may wish to spoiler-font it, as some people might not wish to see notes from scripts that weren't part of the dialog itself, ya know? As for me, I MUST KNOW *lol*, so please post, but do spoiler font. Thanks in advance!!!!!! I should add a few more exclamation points, because this is so HUGE: !!!

Also, viewing the new the Video Podcast - Evie is pretty clear about Aaron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa7771V1RCU

As far as raised.... I don't know if 50+days would actually classify as "raised". To me, raised means more than that.
Thank you so much for posting this! It was fantastic to hear Evie's feelings on the story and episode! Also, you are right about the way we remember dialog/scenes, versus the way they actually played out: Kate said "Hi, Aaron", and here I thought it was "Goodnight, Aaron". And it has only been a few days since "Eggtown" aired! ...Well, at least I had the "Aaron" part right!

:D

Again, thanks for posting that video link, Sam!

* edited to add: I mean, I was re-watching the episode ("Raised by Another") to see the scenes between Claire and the psychic again--I had totally forgotten about Claire's dream, yet it was SO relevant to "Eggtown" and to the story now--whoa/boy howdy!

Another good way is to read the script. I have the script from RBA in PDF - and it makes it CLEAR that the psychic is REAL. There used to be a site that posted them, before script security got really tight. Sam, I can't find the old thread or the site itself on google. Did it disappear?

jennylee - you can find the transcripts on Lostpedia (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Transcript)

HonBun, transcripts are not the same as the actual scripts. The transcripts have just the dialogue that was broadcast. The actual script, depending on the version you are looking at, will have scenes and dialogue that were deleted in editing, or never shot and descriptions of the intent of the scene. They will also have explicit words that are not postable here.


I finally found them

What a script looks like (http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2007/02/ever-wondered-what-lost-script-looked.html)

Great discussion. Aaron's dad, Thomas, is another dark figure to me. We saw one of his paintings in Charles Widmore's office. It was first in Thomas' studio in Raised by Another, then appeared in Widmore's office in Flashes Before Your Eyes. His paintings are very similar to the Swan mural which was painted by Desmond.

Unfortunately, we really don't know much about the guy. When Claire and Thomas learned that they would have a baby, he was happy about it at first, thinking their lives would have hope again. Then, he changed his mind and did not want the baby.

HonBun, transcripts are not the same as the actual scripts. The transcripts have just the dialogue that was broadcast. The actual script, depending on the version you are looking at, will have scenes and dialogue that were deleted in editing, or never shot and descriptions of the intent of the scene. They will also have explicit words that are not postable here.


I finally found them

What a script looks like (http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2007/02/ever-wondered-what-lost-script-looked.html)

Well, I learn something new everyday! Thanks, SamG

To quote the great Sawyer: hang on a tick! Do you mean that the actual scripts that the actors get are different, like with more side notes and stuff, than the transcripts one can find on the web, and do you further mean that in the particular script for "Raised by Another", there is something or several somethings that clearly indicate that Malkin was/is the real deal, psychic-wise? THIS IS HUGE, if so! Of course, I had already concluded that long ago, but one can never be sure when it comes to LOST. Anyway, if you can elaborate on what the RBA script said that makes you so positive, please do, but you may wish to spoiler-font it, as some people might not wish to see notes from scripts that weren't part of the dialog itself, ya know? As for me, I MUST KNOW *lol*, so please post, but do spoiler font. Thanks in advance!!!!!! I should add a few more exclamation points, because this is so HUGE: !!!
Well, sure! :) In addition to what Sam just said, the scripts have actions for the actors and the director. The transcripts are just done by viewers based on what they see on TV. So technically, they are treated as spoilers.

Sam's link has the PDF for Raised by Another as well as other eps fans have managed to get their hands on. Thanks for finding it Sam!

I would especially look at pages 31-33, but I haven't had a chance to review the whole thing.

Most of the scripts were auctioned off or given away the first season. It has been harder and harder to get copies of the scripts. Now, most of the scripts have shadow printing on them, they have the name of the person they are intended for on every page.

Another site (http://www.dailyscript.com/tv.html) for TV scripts...they also have movie scripts.

Back in season 1, I think we all knew that somewhere along the line, Claire would lose Aaron and he would be 'Raised by Another'. Why out that in if they weren't going to follow up on it? However I always thought the logical conclusion to the storyline would be that, although Aaron would be kidnapped/whatever, in the end he would be reunited with Claire to save his soul/keep him good/save the world/whatever other theory you like.

Another theory is that Malkin knew EVERYTHING that would happen on the island, He made Claire get on the plane that was destined to crash because he knew that it was the only way she would raise her son. He foresaw Kate eventually getting Aaron, but also foresaw him being reunited with his mother at a later date somewhere down the line. Whereas if Claire had put Aaron up for adoption, she would never see her child again.

Though if that were true and if Claire is still alive, it paints Kate in a less than favourable light. Pretending Aaron is hers, if his mother is still alive on island. Maybe reuniting them both will be her redemption?

Plus, I think there is greater scope if Claire remains alive. She could become a Rosseau figure with Aaron as her Danielle. I wouldn't mind seeing kick-*** Claire. ;)

Just a quick thought,...if Aaron is "special",...

I keep thinking that if Aaron IS special, then Ben will consider him a threat to his primacy.
So far, even tied up, Ben appears to be in control of things (conversation with Miles). And he is still in control with the 06 (giving orders to Sayid). So, I wonder if his hand is in this - exiling Aaron from his island. I don't know how that connects with Claire, I'm just wondering if Ben orchestrated the situation with Kate raising Aaron for his own reasons.

I hope Claire is still alive & will somehow get Aaron back before it's all over. I do think the psychics prediction was important & is still in play. Still I can't shake the feeling I had when I first saw Aaron this week on screen...(If you'll excuse me I'll reprint my thoughts here on this thread) I'm curious to know if others thought they saw evidence of this as well:

Even though I had already guessed it was gonna be Aaron (unbelievably, usually I'm always fooled)........so I was expecting to see him, but the first thought I had when they showed the baby was it was a Downs Syndrome baby, which did surprise me & made instant sense I thought oooh bringing him off the Island had a perhaps negative effect on him....I completely & immediately went there with the first shot of him then as the scene guickly moved on I began to wonder if I imagined that (maybe he was just being sleepy?) still it was a very odd shot...and it's still not easy to think the producers wouldn't have seen that.
Since then I've read on many sites that lots of other peolpe also thought the baby had Downs Syndrome at first...... a coincidence? an accident? a clue?


When you think about it it does seem to make more sense that the baby is a special needs baby off the Island and with kate:

That would have been a reason to bring the baby into court and generate more sympathy with the jury (It seemed the lawyer thought he had a bigger card to play with the baby i.e. she needs to care for this baby especially considering his "special needs" )

That would also perhaps explain Kate soo not wanting to exploit him in court (she doesn't want to use Aaron's malady especially if she were somehow responsible)

That would also fit in with the Psychics prediction that the baby couldn't be raised by someone else or something bad would happen...

And that would make more sense that Jack wouldn't want to see him if he felt their hard-headed decision to leave (no matter what) is what caused Aaron's problems

It also occurs to me that if there is a time difference on & off Island then maybe the fact that Aaron was born in Island Time the move off Island may have caused Physical or mental problems (or attributes) for him off Island & in "Real" time.


Some of these points don't seem to make as much sense if the baby is normal
Anyway we'll see...I just can't shake that first impression & feeling I had when they first showed the baby...the more I try to convince myself I just imagined that the more I realize a special needs baby actually makes more sense (and seems more like the Lost writers).

Anyway it's been another fun mental loop-de-loop for my brain this week considering the mystery & mastery that is lost. This is a major reason it's hard for me not to love every episode these days, regardless if I love every single scene or not, because I so love the unique, exciting puzzling storytelling that is LOST I crave it each week like a drug an will miss it greatly when it's all over....so whether my ideas are wacky & insane or right on....I am so greatful & appreciative for each & every opportunity to play in the land of LOST !

I think that the baby being raised by another, off-island, is all part of the HUGE mistake that everyone made who's off the island. Everything is terrible for them, and rescue wasn't supposed to happen, so this is just another piece of the bad consequence.

Excellent point.


How would a presumed felon have gotten custody in any way shape or form over Claire's Aaron? Claire has no family to claim him? Jack still doesn't know of their familial connection in the future? What about Aaron's planned adoptive family?

Part of the big O6 lie is that all of the other survivors died. Kate has to pretend that they baby is hers. Anyway, the only person the baby could go to is Claire's aunt, and I frankly think she would much rather have Kate raise her son than her aunt. Claire's father is dead. Her mother is incapacitated irrevocably. The father of the baby ended up being a jerk who left her. Who else would raise the baby, even if Kate told the truth?

Anyway, thanks to Sam G for posting that video podcast link (even though I now know the name of this week's epi, oops..). Evi does sound positive that the baby is The Aaron, so I am going go with that going forward. Of course, TPTB are known for keeping the actors completely in the dark, so I'll leave some room in my mind for the baby to actually be Sawyer's, but it's probably not.

Also, I expect the enhanced version this week will probably comment on the child.

Drat! Foiled again! Apparently Sam's link (that Dark UFO site) is some sort of subscription site. I can't get anything to come up but the header and a blank/white screen. This is obviously the work of the Hanso Foundation, suppressing information again *LOL*! Seriously, though, I guess it is not my destiny to see the actual script, notes about intent and all, of "Raised by Another". But I'll take you all everybody's word for it that the script notes indicate that the psychic is the real, authentic deal. I already felt/thought that to be the case.

...OT digression: a co-worker who sits in the next cube just came in sick as a VINCENT, and I, who usually never gets sick, have already been ravaged with two major cold/flu-zillas this winter, so WHY do people insist on coming in sick and infecting everyone wtih "the sickness"? Where do I work, the Black Rock? *rolling eyes!* If I get this thing that she is sporting, well, let's just say "everybody pays now!" Okay, end of OT digression...

By the way, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think that Claire's name is a hint to the audience about Aaron's specialness. Claire means "clear", and "clairvoyant" has the same root. I think Aaron is clairvoyent, big time. That is why, for example, he cried when Charlie died, imho. He knew.

Drat! Foiled again! Apparently Sam's link (that Dark UFO site) is some sort of subscription site. I can't get anything to come up but the header and a blank/white screen. This is obviously the work of the Hanso Foundation, suppressing information again *LOL*!
Hmm, it's not a subscription site. My guess is that you are blocked from it at work, since you mentioned that you were there when you posted. Did you try again at home?

Another site (http://www.dailyscript.com/tv.html) for TV scripts...they also have movie scripts.

And Tabby posted this (Which is really the same place as Dark, he just redirects to this site.)

And Tabby posted this (Which is really the same place as Dark, he just redirects to this site.)
True, I see now that his direct links go to that same site (even though he doesn't give credit in his comment).

I had the dailyscript.com site marked from long ago and was just trying to help...

Oh, Tabby, I mentioned it again because Lockefan seemed to be having problems getting the scripts through Dark's site. I thought maybe if they had the direct link it might open for them.

Thank you for posting it, if you hadn't, I wouldn't have noticed the link was the same. I've fixed it in the LOST library to link directly.

By the way, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think that Claire's name is a hint to the audience about Aaron's specialness. Claire means "clear", and "clairvoyant" has the same root. I think Aaron is clairvoyent, big time. That is why, for example, he cried when Charlie died, imho. He knew.


I tend to agree with Lockefan. There are other moments when Aaron has cried, and I have thought to myself that that meant something. Didn't he cry when the two groups met at the plane wreckage and the two groups split off?

God, if Lockefan is right, we'll have to go back and analyze every time Aaron cries for possible significance! ;)

I tend to agree with Lockefan. There are other moments when Aaron has cried, and I have thought to myself that that meant something. Didn't he cry when the two groups met at the plane wreckage and the two groups split off?

God, if Lockefan is right, we'll have to go back and analyze every time Aaron cries for possible significance! ;)

I agree too...Aaron has cried at many significant moments it seems. I especially notice how they cut to Aaron when Charlie died.

They wanted us to notice that.

And Tabby posted this (Which is really the same place as Dark, he just redirects to this site.)
Thanks for that second link, that time I was able to get to the script for "Raised by Another".

I totally agree that the script makes it seem from the notes that Malkin is "REAL", authentic, really experiencing the visions he is warning Claire about, etc. And I personally believe that he is the real deal. However, we should bear in mind that it is possible--not saying probable, but a possibility--that the LOST writers wanted the actor to play Malkin very authentically, very real, yet it still could turn out that he (Malkin, the character) was, to quote John Lovitt, ACTING! That he is being paid handsomely by someone or some entity and it was all a very convincing act. I personally think it was real, though, and the script definitely seems to stress that, no doubt about it.

Another thing I'm struck by AGAIN in the script, as I was when re-watching the episode, is when Malkin says that the couple in LA are "good people". That is something that didn't stand out at all years ago in Season One when I first watched the episode, BUT in the light of Ethan's telling Claire, assuring Claire, that the Others are "good people, Claire, a good family", when he was trying to convince her that it would be a good thing to give Aaron to them to raise, it is massively INTERESTING, yes? "Good people". This is a phrase that the Others often use to describe themselves (Ethan used it, Goodwin used it, and who could forget that chilling time when Ben said "We're the good guys"? ...but "good people", the exact phrase, is used a lot by folks like Ethan, Goodwin, your standard-issue Other), and they also use it when they talk about LOSTies who aren't on "The List", saying that the ones not on the list are not "good people".

DANG! So much to ponder!

An Lockefan...

If you haven't tried www.losthatch.com the transcripts are here, as they are many places but here you are able to search by episode, character, word, number and so on.

So you could choose to search "good people" and see when and who said it. Losthatch is a very useful site.

The prophecy may mean nothing. In a later episode the psychic told Mr. Eko that he was a fraud (he pretended to be a psychic to rip people off). So did he really know the plane was going to crash or was he sending Claire to LA as part of some scam?

An Lockefan...

If you haven't tried www.losthatch.com the transcripts are here, as they are many places but here you are able to search by episode, character, word, number and so on.

So you could choose to search "good people" and see when and who said it. Losthatch is a very useful site.
Great link, THANKS! The site I usually go to for obsessing over LOST transcripts is: http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/, but the transcripts thereon are not searchable by key word, as you describe them being on the site you linked. Thanks again!

:thumbsup:

edited to add: Just tried it (searching the transcripts by keywords on the site you linked) and: :Jumpy: ! Duuude, it's awesome! That site is getting placed in my iGoogle homepage's bookmarks, ASAP! Thank you so much, boar expert!

Maybe "raised by another" means "raised by an OTHER"...

Another thing I'm struck by AGAIN in the script, as I was when re-watching the episode, is when Malkin says that the couple in LA are "good people". That is something that didn't stand out at all years ago in Season One when I first watched the episode, BUT in the light of Ethan's telling Claire, assuring Claire, that the Others are "good people, Claire, a good family", when he was trying to convince her that it would be a good thing to give Aaron to them to raise, it is massively INTERESTING, yes? "Good people". This is a phrase that the Others often use to describe themselves (Ethan used it, Goodwin used it, and who could forget that chilling time when Ben said "We're the good guys"? ...but "good people", the exact phrase, is used a lot by folks like Ethan, Goodwin, your standard-issue Other), and they also use it when they talk about LOSTies who aren't on "The List", saying that the ones not on the list are not "good people".

I haven't kept up with the lists, but we only know so far that Jack wasn't on it (which is fine, since he thinks this is a mistake and I have a feeling he wants to take Aaron back to the Island anyway). I always thought Ben was making it up to control his sheep.

Another thing I noticed in the RBA script is that the Stewarts, the couple who was going to adopt Claire's baby, had a few extra lines in this version, with the mother mentioning that they just moved in from the States and the judge giving her a "Keep your mouth shut" kind of look. Those were cut so I don't put much stock in it, but I always wondered why two quasi-red shirts like them were written in such detail in the script.

I think Liplocked mentioned somewhere else that in Claire's dream where she sees Locke with the freaky white/black eyes, he tells her: "You gave him away and now we're all in trouble"... how's THAT for a prophecy? I think Malkin was a fraud to most of his clients but hit on something that freaked him out when he did Claire's reading. Furthermore, I think Locke's prophecy from Claire's dream will come true somehow. Jack will find out about it (hey, maybe ghost!Christian pays him a visit to tells him he has work to do and it's about Aaron... they are family after all) and that's what triggers his desperate search for the Island and Kate's refusal to go back (and give away a son she's bonded with in the meantime).

An Lockefan...

If you haven't tried www.losthatch.com (http://www.losthatch.com) the transcripts are here, as they are many places but here you are able to search by episode, character, word, number and so on.

So you could choose to search "good people" and see when and who said it. Losthatch is a very useful site.
Hear here! When the database in my head fails me :confused: , I go there.


I agree too...Aaron has cried at many significant moments it seems. I especially notice how they cut to Aaron when Charlie died.

They wanted us to notice that.
Indeed. I noticed that at the time, and thought it was the psychic or aural bond that the baby had with Charlie, who held him so much.

...but the first thought I had when they showed the baby was it was a Downs Syndrome baby, which did surprise me & made instant sense I thought oooh bringing him off the Island had a perhaps negative effect on him....I completely & immediately went there with the first shot of him then as the scene guickly moved on I began to wonder if I imagined that (maybe he was just being sleepy?) still it was a very odd shot...and it's still not easy to think the producers wouldn't have seen that.
Since then I've read on many sites that lots of other peolpe also thought the baby had Downs Syndrome at first...... a coincidence? an accident? a clue?


When you think about it it does seem to make more sense that the baby is a special needs baby off the Island and with kate:

That would have been a reason to bring the baby into court and generate more sympathy with the jury (It seemed the lawyer thought he had a bigger card to play with the baby i.e. she needs to care for this baby especially considering his "special needs" )

That would also perhaps explain Kate soo not wanting to exploit him in court (she doesn't want to use Aaron's malady especially if she were somehow responsible)

That would also fit in with the Psychics prediction that the baby couldn't be raised by someone else or something bad would happen...

And that would make more sense that Jack wouldn't want to see him if he felt their hard-headed decision to leave (no matter what) is what caused Aaron's problems

It also occurs to me that if there is a time difference on & off Island then maybe the fact that Aaron was born in Island Time the move off Island may have caused Physical or mental problems (or attributes) for him off Island & in "Real" time.

Thank you for posting this! I thought the exact same thing, but chalked it up to an awkward camera angle and let it rest. But your reinforcing evidence is undenyable and worthy of discussion. This idea deserves it's own thread.

I think the chatter about whether or not the psychic was legitimate is a dead-end. And by now, we should all be well versed in the matters of scripts and transcripts.

no, aaron was not supposed to be raidest by an OTHER


lol i don't know


i knew as soon as the episode was over that there would be a topic with this name....

you bring up a valid point. Sometimes psycics just see words and not images. another could have really meant an OTHER.

At first glance I also thought the child might have Down's syndrome but I don't believe that's the case. Bad camera angle and a sleepy child.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1379-889.html

Thanks for posting the pic, Sam. He looked to me to be a perfectly normal beautiful baby boy (albeit sleepy) from the first time I saw him.

Maybe "raised by another" means "raised by an OTHER"...Malkin did clarify this statement by saying something to the effect that Claire, and Claire alone, is to raise the child. So, it's "another" and not "an other".

Found the line: "It is crucial that you, yourself, raise this child."

Sorry, macainickle (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/member.php?u=25625)...missed your post back there.

Aaron was the first live birth on the island. Kate could be pregnant, maybe her baby dies and she steals Aaron in her child's place. She's turning out to be crazy and conflicted enough to do it. This whole episode revealed just how torn up she is inside. When Jack was lying for her she couldn't stand it and stopped him. Her mom's appearance really threw her for a loop too. Her relationship with Sawyer and her motivations to stay or leave the island have all come into question as well. In short, Kate is becoming increasingly unbalanced and stealing Claire's baby does not seem too far fetched.


I have heard over and over , on this board, how Kate stole Aaron and Kate is some horrible person. I am not one of those people who has any die hard liking to any particular Lost character, but I have to defend Kate here based on the facts of the show, that I witnessed? I might have forgotten a few things along the way, but if my memory serves me correctly, outside of kill