But we know, according to Frank's flashback that the plane was found in the south indian ocean (sunda trench)....


So which is right?

We know the truth. South Pacific is just part of the lies lies lies. Like, that only 8 (then 6) survived. That Kate was the first hero, etc. etc. That the Marshall died in the crash. Lies.

Jack was just regurgiatating the cover story that he and the O6 promised to spew as part of their deal with whomever.

What we know for sure is that Jack doesn't know where the island is becasue in TTLG he was flying around aimlessly trying to relocate it.

But wasn't the whole world told that 8i5 crashed near Bali and all 324 on board died? Is part of the cover story for the Oceanic 6 that they were actually on some other Oceanic flight?

It's all part of the cover up. What I'm wondering is who or what is making them lie?

yes the whole world was told that...I dont get it

Okay wait... The rest of the world believes the plane crashed in the trench in the ocean, right? That's what Naomi told the Losties and that's what the news was all over the place when we got flashbacks with Charlotte, Daniel, Miles and the pilot (can't remember his name). But now we see Kate's FF and the world is being told that they crashed on an island in the south pacific. I realize the Oceanic 6 are telling a very specific story for some reason, but how can their story work with the footage of the plane in the underwater trench?

Okay wait... The rest of the world believes the plane crashed in the trench in the ocean, right? That's what Naomi told the Losties and that's what the news was all over the place when we got flashbacks with Charlotte, Daniel, Miles and the pilot (can't remember his name). But now we see Kate's FF and the world is being told that they crashed on an island in the south pacific. I realize the Oceanic 6 are telling a very specific story for some reason, but how can their story work with the footage of the plane in the underwater trench?


They are implying that they washed up on an island in the south pacific

Okay wait... The rest of the world believes the plane crashed in the trench in the ocean, right? That's what Naomi told the Losties and that's what the news was all over the place when we got flashbacks with Charlotte, Daniel, Miles and the pilot (can't remember his name). But now we see Kate's FF and the world is being told that they crashed on an island in the south pacific. I realize the Oceanic 6 are telling a very specific story for some reason, but how can their story work with the footage of the plane in the underwater trench?

I believe that the Oceanic 6 end up making a deal with the freighties and helping them in order to get off the island. In return they concoct a "more accurate" cover story for the Oceanic 6 and flight 815. Oceanic will admit to the world that they made something up about the Sunda Trench plane. They'll have to becasue we know both can't be true -- that is unless we start to get into alternate timeline theories and whatnot, which I'm not even going to entertain.

They are implying that they washed up on an island in the south pacific
I don't think so, because the Sunda Trench is in the Indian Ocean. It's a bit to far for them to have floated. Plus, if the plane was down in a trench, how would Kate have plausibly pulled the survivors out of the wreckage and onto the island?

Something is surely fishy here. The world saw massively publicized footage of a plane - with the body of its pilot - underwater in a trench in the Indian Ocean. Now Jack is telling a totally accepted story about a crash in the South Pacific. We know that neither of these is true of course, but why aren't they being questioned about the two disparate stories?

The outside world was shown the wreckage before the freighter came to the island.
The outside world is now being told that Oceanic 815 crash landed on an island on the South Pacific. A cover-up for a cover-up? C'mon........

The only thing that I can come up with is that they claim that the 8 were not on 815 to begin with but I don't see how they get around the manifest for the plane in the trench unless it was doctored from the beginning. But you'd think that two supposed crashes so close together might make it hard for Oceanic to stay in business.

They can't be saying that they were on a different plane. Sayid clearly said he was a survivor of flight 815.

Man, this is a good one. I keep coming up with half theories and by the time I finish it I've disproved it to myself. This episode had a lot to think about--even more than the last 3 eps, which I didn't think was possible. This pace is awesome, but its a little harder to keep track of so many different ideas like I used to.

But wasn't the whole world told that 8i5 crashed near Bali and all 324 on board died? Is part of the cover story for the Oceanic 6 that they were actually on some other Oceanic flight?


Maybe the "World" that the Fantastic 4 came from is not the World the 6 returned to

I dont believe for one minute that the plane in the trench is a fake. This isnt 24...its Lost. With duplicate bunnies, duplicate Penny Photos, and now duplicate 815's--along with Desmond Time traveling---a coverup is the last thing, I believe, Lost writers would come up with

One thing I do believe for sure, regardless of whether an alternate world is true or not, is that plane IS Flight 815 and not some fake plane made to look like it.

This really bothered me about tonights episode. We know from Confirmed Dead that it was made public that the plane's wreckage was found in the Sundra Trench which is in the Indian Ocean. Jack's testimony where he states the South Pacific makes no sense at all.

Count me as confused, too. The way that Jack said it so matter-of-factly when he was on the stand -- it's obviously common knowledge now, or else people would have jumped up and said "Wait! I thought your plane was found in the Indian Ocean". So this has to be something that the public accepts.

So, 815 disappears. Who knows how long after Oceanic comes out and says "We found the wreckage -- all passengers dead -- look here's under water footage of the plane". The Freighties set out and land on Craphole Island and find 815ers alive and well. 6 of them get "rescued" and taken back to the "real world". There's a huge cover up, huge lies, huge settlements. Why? And how is it explained?

Who was shown the footage of the alleged 815 wreckage in the Indian Ocean? Did we see it shown to more people than just the ones recruited for the mission onto the island? We saw the pilot shown it down in the Carribean, we saw Daniel shown it when he cried over it ... is it possible that it was a set up just shown to those specific people so they'd go on the mission? Why though?

My head hurts after this episode.

Anthony Cooper knew something about it but but he apparently said 815 went down in the Pacific. My original posts were made before I had watched the episode. My theory that a new story to the effect that the eight survivors hadn't been on flight 815 had been put out is clearly wrong. I'm stumped.

It's all part of "what they can and can't say"

We have Hurley wishing he had gone with Jack, Jack obviously telling a "forced" story about Kate, the hero, and Jack's contradiction of the previously publicised crash site.

Stringing the clues in a disconnected chain...

Who was shown the footage of the alleged 815 wreckage in the Indian Ocean? Did we see it shown to more people than just the ones recruited for the mission onto the island? We saw the pilot shown it down in the Carribean, we saw Daniel shown it when he cried over it ... is it possible that it was a set up just shown to those specific people so they'd go on the mission? Why though?



I was thinking along these lines too. I think it is a bit elaborate of a ruse to just show this footage of the plane being underwater to those who were recruited for the mission. As far as I can remember, the only ones who mentioned the plane crashing in the Indian Ocean or who saw it was Naomi, Daniel, and Lapidus.

Charlotte saw it on the newspaper front page in Tunisia. And was asked, in how many more languages she'll have to read it, before she'll believe. So i guess, the find of 815 was a global news...

Okay wait... The rest of the world believes the plane crashed in the trench in the ocean, right? That's what Naomi told the Losties and that's what the news was all over the place when we got flashbacks with Charlotte, Daniel, Miles and the pilot (can't remember his name). But now we see Kate's FF and the world is being told that they crashed on an island in the south pacific. I realize the Oceanic 6 are telling a very specific story for some reason, but how can their story work with the footage of the plane in the underwater trench?

Eggs-actly!!!
The world was shown a plane underwater in a trench with a rotting pilot.
Now Jack is stating that they crashed on an island in the Pacific.
So how does the story get twisted into what we see?!

Did 8 people swim to the nearest island, where 2 died?
Did part of the plane break off with only 8 people on it that
landed on an island?

Im so confused.... :shrug:

so am I, it makes no sense at all. How can a plane be found in the Indian ocean ad have survivors in the Pacific..

so am I, it makes no sense at all. How can a plane be found in the Indian ocean ad have survivors in the Pacific..
That would be the million dollar 'answer'...

Now, I believe that the explanation is gonna have to involve Oceanic Airlines taking blame for making a HUGE mistake regarding the plane flight numbers or something.
I mean, this sounds crazy and probably impossible, but would it be possible that TWO Flight 815 took off from Sidney that day or maybe some time before? One headed for LA, with our losties. The Other one headed WEST with other passengers. This is the plane they found in the sunda trench. The Pilot was different because it wasn't really Flight 815.

After all, Jack confirmed they crashed in the pacific. So where does this other plane come from?????


As a result of this mistake, Oceanic Airlines might have gone out of business and later on bought by a biggest corporation. Widmore, Abaddon's, Paik, etc.

This is one of the most interesting things someone noticed about this episode.

To add to the weirdness, why exactly did the people who planted the fake plane crash do it near Bali, so far from the flight path? Why take the risk of people questioning why the plane was off-course?

Is it possible Jack slipped up in his testimony and no-one picked it up?

It must have been at some point revealed to the world that the supposed 815 in the Sunda trench was actually some other plane. That's sort of inevitable, since nobody would have survived from 815, if that had been the real 815. The only lie about what happened to the plane was that it "crash landed", as opposed to that it broke apart in the air.

Seems like there will have to be an explanation for the wreckage found in the trench.

I'm excited to hear what it is. 6 more days?!

The minute I heard Jack testify where the plane crashed, I paused the episode to wrap my brain around the ramifications.

Does anyone recall if Jack, Kate or Hurley mentioned the flight number 815 in their flash-forwards?

Here's why I ask: we hear "815" from the mass media in the Fantastic Four flash forwards. It's mentioned on TV, the car radio and the newspaper.

When it comes to our Losties' flash-forwards, I recall only hearing "flight 815" once, from Sayid on the golf course. (to the horror of Avellino) Could Sayid's blatant mention of "815" be his way of letting Avellino know that Sayid knows who he is? Basically, Sayid doesn't have to lie about the flight number to Avellino...because Avellino isn't making it back to the clubhouse alive.

I guess this all leads to a second Oceanic crash that was later faked (and with another flight number and maybe only having 8 total passengers) or something much more bizarre involving alternate time lines.

Crap... so this was being discussed already in a thread. Didn't mean to double up and create a new one. I am very intrigued by this and how these two stories will be made to fit together for the public though.

I believe that the story Jack told was one that he was encouraged to tell, probably by Oceanic to reconcile the fact that they showed footage of the wreck. It was mentioned that the survivors were starving. Could it be possible that the reason that they were starving is that they were adrift on the wreckage for a period of time?

The minute I heard Jack testify where the plane crashed, I paused the episode to wrap my brain around the ramifications.

Does anyone recall if Jack, Kate or Hurley mentioned the flight number 815 in their flash-forwards?

Here's why I ask: we hear "815" from the mass media in the Fantastic Four flash forwards. It's mentioned on TV, the car radio and the newspaper.

When it comes to our Losties' flash-forwards, I recall only hearing "flight 815" once, from Sayid on the golf course. (to the horror of Avellino) Could Sayid's blatant mention of "815" be his way of letting Avellino know that Sayid knows who he is? Basically, Sayid doesn't have to lie about the flight number to Avellino...because Avellino isn't making it back to the clubhouse alive.

I guess this all leads to a second Oceanic crash that was later faked (and with another flight number and maybe only having 8 total passengers) or something much more bizarre involving alternate time lines.



Eventhough Hurley never said I survived Oceanic Flight 815, he did say I am one of the Oceanic 6. Sayid said he was one of the Oeanic 6 to Avellino just before he pulled the trigger.

To me that disproves 2 seperate plane crashes with a possible error to one of them.

I believe Jack just slipped up, as to he was thinking about Kate and what they had, and how he still has feelings for her, thus he told the truth unconsciously.

Eventhough Hurley never said I survived Oceanic Flight 815, he did say I am one of the Oceanic 6. That's the hair I'm trying to split. The "Oceanic 6" are not the survivors of the Flight 815 from Season 1. Instead, they're pretending to be the survivors of whatever the flight number was for that plane sitting in the Sundra Trench.

That's the hair I'm trying to split. The "Oceanic 6" are not the survivors of the Flight 815 from Season 1. Instead, they're the (pretend) survivors of whatever the flight number was for that plane sitting in the Sundra Trench.


But with Sayid stating that he was one of the O6 and a survivor of 815 that proves to me that they are one in the same...

Just my opinion, you could be right

But with Sayid stating that he was one of the O6 and a survivor of 815 that proves to me that they are one in the same...

That's why Avellino freaked out. He didn't expect to hear 815, and Sayid said it intentionally to let him know that he's a dead man.

Oh, I fully expect I'm as wrong as wrong could be. I'm just trying to come up with an explanation other than Jack testified to something that the entire planet knows is wrong by a couple of thousand miles.

That's why Avellino freaked out. He didn't expect to hear 815, and Sayid said it intentionally to let him know that he's a dead man.


I thought that Avellino knew about Sayid and his connection to Ben, eventhough Ben did not know Avellino knew, therefore realized that Sayid was not there by coincidence, but rather to kill him, that is why he tried to get away so quickly.

I personally would have hit Sayid with my 5 iron

but that is last episode.

Eggs-actly!!!
The world was shown a plane underwater in a trench with a rotting pilot.
Now Jack is stating that they crashed on an island in the Pacific.
So how does the story get twisted into what we see?!

Did 8 people swim to the nearest island, where 2 died?
Did part of the plane break off with only 8 people on it that
landed on an island?

Im so confused.... :shrug:

OK. This episode got my head spinning like everyone else. WTF
8 people, hmm. Does this mean bad news for Claire? (Des flash).
Jack's cover-up story, Kate pulls survivors to shore ? WTF. Looking at a map and the supposed 815 (found).. that makes no sense. Thats a lot of drifting.
There's no way, they got onto a South Pacific island from the "Sundra Trench" crash site.
What does this mean??
I really dont even want to start going this direction.. and I wont, lol. Im just gonna throw a few thoughts out there.
1. Sundra Trench really is 815, and they all died.
2. Alternate timelines
3. Kate's FF was a slight variation, of the island timeline (now).
4. Frank did actually pilot 815 in one variation, in another Seth goes to the island.
5. (and my least favorite) They are mirror twins.. (not timeline).






"Driveshaft, more like Suckshaft"

I think the most likely answer is a writer thought Bali was the South Pacific.

I suspect this might be a writing mistake that they will have to address, perhaps by having the oceanic 6's story being something along the lines of them making a raft from the plane's rudder and a sail from Hurley's underwear before undergoing an epic journey to an island in the South Pacific. Either that or it will never be addressed again.

I think maybe that their might be someone from the island or the O6 who might tell what actually happened on the island but no 1 will believe them because the story sounds crazy i wouldnt believe it :biggrin:

maybe hurley? maybe that was what charlie's warning was all about???? "they need you Hugo."

and whoever is behind all of this has done a nice job of making sure that the O6's resident blabber mouth wouldn't be taken seriously, huh? by sticking him back in the institution. and that's why he's being checked up on? by abbadon?

yeah, they story jack told sounds totally rehearsed and fed to him. even with beginning with the date of the crash, and Kate's reminder of how many times she heard that story.

Oceans do border one another, and while I'm not an expert on the exact dividing line between the Indian and the (and can't find it definitively right now), the Sunda trench (aka Java trench) is definitely in the NE corner of the Indian Ocean.

If the plane goes down in the open ocean, it's conceivable that they wash up somewhere to the south and west and more "Pacific." Provided there is something to float on. How this fits in with the "Kate is the hero" story and the rest of the cover-up remains to be seen.

I don't think this is going to further complicate the story with secondary crashes, flights, timelines, etc.

And remember, this is America, not exactly a nation renowned for our sense of world geography.

I thought that Avellino knew about Sayid and his connection to Ben, eventhough Ben did not know Avellino knew, therefore realized that Sayid was not there by coincidence, but rather to kill him, that is why he tried to get away so quickly.

I personally would have hit Sayid with my 5 iron

but that is last episode.

I suspect this might be a writing mistake that they will have to address, perhaps by having the oceanic 6's story being something along the lines of them making a raft from the plane's rudder and a sail from Hurley's underwear before undergoing an epic journey to an island in the South Pacific. Either that or it will never be addressed again.
:24:

I absolutely love LOST fan humor! Great posts!

<still laughing>

Don't think any of the O6 will ever tell hat really happened. I think there lives and the lives of their friends still on the island would be in jeporady if the truth came out.

asdwkjqehq

Okay, I read through the posts in this thread and didn't notice this, but if on the chance someone else wrote about it and I missed it, please forgive.

Anyway, what I was thinking was this: Jack didn't say that Flight 815 crashed ON the Island - he said it crashed IN THE WATER in the South Pacific. He went on to say that Kate rescued the other 7 people IN THE WATER.

So, perhaps the reason Jack is saying this is to prevent people from thinking that they were on an island? I'm not sure. And perhaps if this is the "party line" that the Oceanic Six are telling everyone, there is no need for the general public to see anything contradictory about Flight 815 being found in the Sunda Trench.

I know, maybe this is stretching it too far. But one thing's for certain, Jack did say they'd crashed in the water, not on the land.

http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=89629

Lord of the Files has an interesting thread about this topic at the above link. He explains it without parallel realities......REALLY interesting stuff...check it out

The pilot's body on the Sunda Trench plane was not the 815 pilot. This is either evidence of a hoax or of a second Oceanic plane crash (in addition to flight 815).

Could there be 2 different Oceanic flights missing (815 and another)? NO
When we see the footage of the Sunda Trench plane, the voice of the person operating the camera immediately believes it's flight 815. If there were actually 2 different Oceanic flights missing at that time, why would he automatically assume it was 815? I can't imagine that's where anyone would have expected to find flight 815, so the only explanation for the assumption is that it was the only Oceanic flight that was missing.

Could the Oceanic 6 story be that they're survivors of a different fight? NO
We can rule out the idea that the Oceanic 6 are supposed to be survivors of a different Oceanic flight because... in the courtroom, Jack says he met Kate on flight 815; Sayid mentioned flight 815 to the man on the golf course (although he killed him right afterwards); and the cop that interrogated Hurley knew which flight it was because he mentioned knowing Anna Lucia from Hurley's flight.

Could the Sunda Trench news footage be a hoax just for the freighties (meaning it wasn't actually public)? UNLIKELY
We saw 3 freighties (Charlotte, Daniel and Frank) find out about Oceanic flight 815 being found in the Sundra Trench. Frank and Daniel saw it on TV and Charlotte saw it in the newspaper. Frank was watching TV alone, but some woman was with Daniel. Charlotte was with a friend, who even commented about how many different papers Charlotte had read the story in. So given all that, I think it's unlikely that the freighties could have been shown a hoax story about 815 that was just for them. I guess it's possible, but the evidence doesn't really seem to lead me that way.

So where does this leave us?
The Sunda Trench is in the Indian Ocean, so there's no way the story of 815 being found there can be merged with Jack's courtroom story that they crashed on an island in the South Pacific. I think that leaves us with the Sunda Trench 815 discovery eventually be found out to be a hoax when the survivors show up. So maybe there are 2 different factions at work -- one that perpetrated the Sunda Trench hoax and one that orchestrated the "Oceanic 6" hoax.

Maybe the freighter 4's "flashbacks" were actually fastforwards, and the wreckage was found AFTER the survivors were.

I don't think so, because the Sunda Trench is in the Indian Ocean. It's a bit to far for them to have floated. Plus, if the plane was down in a trench, how would Kate have plausibly pulled the survivors out of the wreckage and onto the island?

Something is surely fishy here. The world saw massively publicized footage of a plane - with the body of its pilot - underwater in a trench in the Indian Ocean. Now Jack is telling a totally accepted story about a crash in the South Pacific. We know that neither of these is true of course, but why aren't they being questioned about the two disparate stories?

We keep seeing things change - usually subtle things. For example, the parachutist's (Naomi's) boots were black in Desmond's vision, and red in reality (or something like that). The frames changed at the the murdered boy's house. Perhaps this is a BIG thing that got changed from one "course correction" to the next. In which case, noone would know that the other plane HAD been found in the Trench to begin with. I think...:rolleyes:

Maybe the freighter 4's "flashbacks" were actually fastforwards, and the wreckage was found AFTER the survivors were.

I don't think so because Naomi already had that information when she landed on the island. The only way the freighties FBs could be FFs would be if Naomi's was given the story in advance by whoever was planning to perpetrate the hoax.

Couple of things. First , I swear I heard Jack say something like "I met Kate . . . Miss Austen . . .passenger on flight 815 which crash landed on an island in the south Pacific." Did he say this or didn't he? I thought I may have heard him say something about landing in the water too.

I thought one possible scenario was that Oceanic planted the fake wreckage in the ocean to avoid a lawsuit.

Think about it for a second. In this day and age if an airplane took off with 324 people on board . . . and then was never heard from again??!?. . .somebody better start explaining right now.

We haven't been shown ANY scenes of anyone's reaction the the flight not landing when it should have. Presumably there would have been people there to greet people getting off the flight. Maybe these people started such a ruckus that Oceanic had to come up with a cover story.

So they planted the fake wreckage in a deep trench where bodies couldn't be salvaged.

And then at some point the O6 showed up and a new story had to be cobbled together.

So where does this leave us?The Sunda Trench is in the Indian Ocean, so there's no way the story of 815 being found there can be merged with Jack's courtroom story that they crashed on an island in the South Pacific. I think that leaves us with the Sunda Trench 815 discovery eventually be found out to be a hoax when the survivors show up. So maybe there are 2 different factions at work -- one that perpetrated the Sunda Trench hoax and one that orchestrated the "Oceanic 6" hoax.
So whoever orchestrated the Jack's South Pacific story is ALSO working to expose those who set-up the Sunda Trench crash? Not a bad idea, but couldn't this exposure lead to everyone being open to scrutiny. Wouldn't that be potentially dangerous for those responsible for the O6 lie as well?

So where does this leave us?
The Sunda Trench is in the Indian Ocean, so there's no way the story of 815 being found there can be merged with Jack's courtroom story that they crashed on an island in the South Pacific. I think that leaves us with the Sunda Trench 815 discovery eventually be found out to be a hoax when the survivors show up. So maybe there are 2 different factions at work -- one that perpetrated the Sunda Trench hoax and one that orchestrated the "Oceanic 6" hoax.

That's sounds like the most plausible scenario thus fun.

Hi guys! Long time lurker from England here! Really loving S4 so far, but like most of you my head is spinning with all the new questions it poses! This has to be the biggest puzzle of Eggtown, followed closely by the cliffhanger of Aaron with Kate?! and why Eggtown?! - thankfully why Eggtown was answered by Lostpedia for me! Anyway back to the Sunda Trench puzzle, just thought I'd throw something into the mix which I haven't seen raised here yet - whilst looking at maps of the Sunda Trench I read that this is where the Boxing Day Tsunami originated, now I'm a bit lost (!) with the timeline, but I THINK I read it's around Christmas Eve / Christmas Day at the moment, SO what is this going to mean for this story line?!

I think one of the biggest problems some people have is they do not watch the episodes more than once or they dont pay attention or they dont remember past episodes in detail---or all 3 :)

This is a big complicated story and the errors people make are understandable. But I dont undertsnad why people who come to forums, which would mean they are not just casual fans, dont see, or remember the simplest of details

First
Anna's cop partner said that she was on the same flight as Hurley. So from the very first episode it was confirmed as 815.

2nd
Jack did say they crashed on an Island in the pacific. He didnt say they crashed in the Indian ocean and swam 400 miles. He clarified it went into the water next to the Island---as Kate dragged them to shore. We know thats a lie---but thats not important--whats important is the world didnt flinch at the contradiction from the Trench crash site

3rd
The Fantastic 4 ARE Flash BACKS. Dont give it another thought. They are. You could not having been paying attention if you think otherwise

I think one of the biggest problems some people have is they do not watch the episodes more than once or they dont pay attention or they dont remember past episodes in detail---or all 3 :)

This is a big complicated story and the errors people make are understandable. But I dont undertsnad why people who come to forums, which would mean they are not just casual fans, dont see, or remember the simplest of details

First
Anna's cop partner said that she was on the same flight as Hurley. So from the very first episode it was confirmed as 815.

2nd
Jack did say they crashed on an Island in the pacific. He didnt say they crashed in the Indian ocean and swam 400 miles. He clarified it went into the water next to the Island---as Kate dragged them to shore. We know thats a lie---but thats not important--whats important is the world didnt flinch at the contradiction from the Trench crash site

3rd
The Fantastic 4 ARE Flash BACKS. Dont give it another thought. They are. You could not having been paying attention if you think otherwise

..which is why I asked the initial question. I do apologize if my memory isn't as sharp as yours and didn't make the time to watch the episode again prior to the post. Yes, "815" is in Jack's testimony. My musings are all for not.

JB, I hope this forum is open to people of varying levels of interest and memory; I've tolerated some theories and comments with far less merit than PS's, with responses more gracious, to say nothing of more informative, than your third point. I've watched the episode twice now and I must have missed the bit about 'dragging them to shore' twice. Such is the attention level of us mere mortals.

That said, what do you mean about Ana Lucia's partner and "the very first episode'? Do you mean 4.1? And do you think that cop is a neutral party, a member of the general public? I don't.

they needed to make up a story how do u think they felt if they said everyone died then some turn up alive

Maybe I'm in the minority for in thinking the faked 815 wreckage from CD (Sunda Trench) and the Oceanic 6 Flight 815 survivors story (South Pacfic) aren't necessarily that different. Even if both stories are faked for the public.

1) Sunda Trench stretches more than 1500 miles, with the south east end being directly north of Australia and south of the lesser Sunda Islands.

2) The Indian Ocean ends as the Timor Sea flows into the Arafura Sea of the Pacific Ocean. This happens at the end of the lesser Sunda Island chain.

2) This spot is below the equator. Hence South Pacific.

So, we're not talking about thousands of miles between the Sunda Trench and South Pacific. I think a credible story can told quickly. This would leave remaining time to explaining other things that seem more interesting (time differences, smoke monster, where/when the heck they really are - versus where they said they were...)

FYI-
This is part of Doc Jensen's interview with Damon and Carlton after the strike (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20179125_3,00.html):

The Sayid episode established that Ben's got this list of bad people that need executing. What can you say about these people?
CUSE: We'll know by the end of the season that there will be two alternative explanations for why Oceanic 815 is in the trench at the bottom of the ocean. It will not be clear which story one should believe. [To be clear, Cuse is saying the mystery of Ben's list is linked to this wreckage.]
LINDELOF: Both stories will be presented and both stories will have legitimate facts presented on their behalves.
CUSE: The act of taking a plane, filling it with dead bodies and putting it at the bottom of the ocean connotes a group that is pretty freakin' powerful. You should be worried about the people involved in either scenario capable of doing something like that.

***Mod edited to remove material under third party copyright***


Hope this clears up some of the confusion....or not. Enjoy!

For the record, Jack says nothing about Kate dragging anyone to shore. He says he was wounded, that Kate gave him first aid, and that he wouldn't have made it to shore without her.

You see, even for the Brilliant Mr. Burger, it is possible to hear 'ABCDFG' and swear that 'E' was one of the letters.

This kinda reminds me of the man Anna Lucia intentionally killed before the flight.

I can't remember the names. But if you follow the episodes and read the transcripts, First she shot "John Doe" but near the final episode of Anna Lucia, it was said by her mother that Anna shot "John Jane". Kinda weird. Like a duality exists. Another universe, but not quite the same, maybe the same thing as the Jacob's shack.

Or, it could be writers mistakes.

While I agree that the plane in the Sunda Trench is a fake, I have an idea how the 815'ers in their off-island future can explain the wreckage in the trench, while also saying that they crashed in the South Pacific: Something called Thermohaline Circulation, or the 'Ocean's Conveyor belt'. I'm no scientist, but in TV-land it seems plausible to me that a plane crashing in the South Pacific, in the water, would sink and then be taken by this 'conveyer belt' to the Sunda Trench. Wikipedia has a good explanation, and graphic of how this current works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation

The current just happens to run East to West, north of Australia and then right to the Sunda Trench.....I'm not suggesting this is what happened, but I am suggesting the Oceanic 6 could use this as a cover story to explain the wreckage in the trench.

This kinda reminds me of the man Anna Lucia intentionally killed before the flight.

I can't remember the names. But if you follow the episodes and read the transcripts, First she shot "John Doe" but near the final episode of Anna Lucia, it was said by her mother that Anna shot "John Jane". Kinda weird. Like a duality exists. Another universe, but not quite the same, maybe the same thing as the Jacob's shack.

Or, it could be writers mistakes.

Everything points to duality. ;)

It is worth noticing that the Oceanic 6 showed up AFTER the Sunda Trench discovery. So, what if that is the REAL wreckage or at least part of it (tail and fuselage), and the story told by Jack about the island in the pacific IS the lie or cover up. I mean, if somebody wanted to deviate the media attention to a place other than the Sunda Trench, bringing back the real survivors from an 'island on the pacific' makes sense now. That way, they would make the Sunda Wreckage look as a HOAX, when in fact it is the real one!

That is why Naomi said that the plane was found near Bali. At that moment, the world believed that was the real plane, but the questions and mysteries surrounding its abnormal location were probably all over the news also.

So they had to do something: Bring a couple of survivors from Flight 815 from a place faraway from the Indian Ocean. The place were the plane should have crashed, by logic: The Pacific Ocean.

This way, the world is presented with TWO contradictory stories, all of a sudden:

1) The Sunda Trench Plane in the Indian Ocean.

2) REAL survivors of Flight 815, claiming they were found on an island in the PACIFIC ocean.


So, what do you think the world is gonna believe?;)


And of course, to help the Sunda Trench 'evidence' look like a hoax, they put down there the only piece they were missing from the real wreckage: The Cockpit, of course, with a 'fake' pilot.....


Now, I wonder, if it is accepted that the Sunda Trench is a hoax, after the O06, WHERE is the 'real' plane according to Jack and the people he is lying for?

Did they place a HOAXED HOAX plane near the island where OCeaninc 6 were supposedly found?
So will we have TWO flight 815, the real one (in the Sunda Trench) and the fake one to support Jack's lie, in the Pacific?

Now, I wonder, if it is accepted that the Sunda Trench is a hoax, after the O06, WHERE is the 'real' plane according to Jack and the people he is lying for?

Good question.

Another question: where is the actual wreckage (as we know it) on Craphole Island? As I recall, an unusually high tide and strong surf cleaned the beach area of the wreckage. That never did sit well with me. I mean, we're talking about an airlliner...

Good question.

Another question: where is the actual wreckage (as we know it) on Craphole Island? As I recall, an unusually high tide and strong surf cleaned the beach area of the wreckage. That never did sit well with me. I mean, we're talking about an airlliner...
I think it was stated on the show that the fuselage or most of it was indeed washed off the shore into the water. The Tail landed on the water already, so we have 2/3 of the plane in the water since S1.
This is the basics of my theory that the Sunda Trench wrecakge is REAL, except, of course, for the cockpit.
But how did it get there?

Well, this is explain in detail in my 1-in, 1-out Portal theory below.;)

To sum it up: There is like a...'sink hole' in the Indian Ocean that spew things out of the Island's snowglobe.

There is like a...'sink hole' in the Indian Ocean that spew things out of the Island's snowglobe.I like your theory! So, does that mean Desmond, Danielle and Henry Gale accidentally entered the portal...and if so, where?

But wasn't the whole world told that 8i5 crashed near Bali and all 324 on board died? Is part of the cover story for the Oceanic 6 that they were actually on some other Oceanic flight?


When Kate's attorney put Jack on the stand, he asked him to explain how he and Kate met. Doesn't Jack then say they were both on 815 yata yata?

I like your theory! So, does that mean Desmond, Danielle and Henry Gale accidentally entered the portal...and if so, where?

Pacific Ocean, somewhere between Tahiti and Fiji.
That is the Entrance-Portal, Bearing 145 within the snowglobe. That is where the chopper came from, according to this theory.
When Daniel told Frank to use the same bearing they came in on, I felt my theory has been just debunked, but, like a poster pointed out in that thread, what Daniel might have meant is to STAY on the same direction from where they came in to leave the island. In my portal's scenario, that would mean to keep going from a 145 bearing, within the snowglobe, around the South Magnetic Pole of the Island, if you consider it a big magnet, until you end up leaving the island with a 325 degree heading or close to the North Magnetic Pole.
This will make you pop up in the Indian Ocean, thousands of miles away from where you came in.

The definite confirmation or debunk of this idea will come when we learn WHERE Michael and Walt ended up.

Anyways, the theory could still work if we think that the portals are also 2-way.

When Daniel told Frank to use the same bearing they came in on, I felt my theory has been just debunked, but, like a poster pointed out in that thread, what Daniel might have meant is to STAY on the same direction from where they came in to leave the island.Or maybe Daniel intentionally misled Frank; who says Daniel wanted Frank to leave the island?

what Daniel might have meant is to STAY on the same direction from where they came in to leave the island. In my portal's scenario, that would mean to keep going from a 145 bearing, within the snowglobe, around the South Magnetic Pole of the Island, if you consider it a big magnet, until you end up leaving the island with a 325 degree heading or close to the North Magnetic Pole.

If they came in from the 145 bearing (in the south) and entered the snowglobe, isn't that flying toward the 325 bearing? I guess I am confused as to how "bearings" are indicated. Kind of like wind direction is confusing. A northerly blows out of the North towards the South. If this wind mass were moving straight North to South, would it be on a bearing of 180 degrees?

In other words, do you indicate bearing as the direction you are moving towards, or the direction you are coming from?

And, I suppose I am wondering why the Heli couldn't have just flown straight to the 325 bearing. Would that bearing be the opposite than the bearing they came in on, or a continuation, fly from 145 toward 325. Why do they need to go toward 145 then circle the South Magnetic Pole, then head back the way they came?

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I think you know I'm riding shotgun on your musical wagon, but this statement is confusing to me. Of course, the exact details involve Daniel's statement and how it was interpreted, but could you clarify this (the bearings thing) for me?

If they came in from the 145 bearing (in the south) and entered the snowglobe, isn't that flying toward the 325 bearing? I guess I am confused as to how "bearings" are indicated. Kind of like wind direction is confusing. A northerly blows out of the North towards the South. If this wind mass were moving straight North to South, would it be on a bearing of 180 degrees?

In other words, do you indicate bearing as the direction you are moving towards, or the direction you are coming from?

And, I suppose I am wondering why the Heli couldn't have just flown straight to the 325 bearing. Would that bearing be the opposite than the bearing they came in on, or a continuation, fly from 145 toward 325. Why do they need to go toward 145 then circle the South Magnetic Pole, then head back the way they came?

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I think you know I'm riding shotgun on your musical wagon, but this statement is confusing to me. Of course, the exact details involve Daniel's statement and how it was interpreted, but could you clarify this (the bearings thing) for me?
I see the island as a big magnet itself. Therefore it has 2 magnetic poles. One close to 325 degrees or Magnetic North Pole and the other one on the opposite side: 145 degrees or close to the South Magnetic pole.
This perspective is only valid WITHIN the snowglobe.

From outside the island's dimension, these coordinates are worthless. To ENTER the Snowglobe, the helicopter must have locked onto the radio signal from Naomi's phone and followed it until they saw some kind of Aurora. Then they just dived into the light.

Now, once inside the snowglobe and from a islander's perspective, Frank's chopper would be coming in from a bearing of 145 degrees or South-East, since they used the Entrance-Portal in the Pacific.

Then, like Daniel might have really suggest Frank to do, if they keep following that 145-degree bearing straight ahead, they will end up with a North-West direction of 325 degrees. In other words: the way out.

Now, if the freighter is in the Pacific Ocean and the way out leads to the Indian Ocean, why would Daniel put Frank on that bearing, if they knew they wanted to get to the ship?

Options:

1) Daniel didn't want Frank to come back to the freighter.

1b) He actually sent Frank to a 145 degree bearing, or reversed path, back to where they came from. In this case, maybe Daniel sent them on purpose because he knows of the 1-way nature of the portals. So he knew they wouldnt be able to get out.

1c) The Portals are 2-way.

I see the island as a big magnet itself. Therefore it has 2 magnetic poles. One close to 325 degrees or Magnetic North Pole and the other one on the opposite side: 145 degrees or close to the South Magnetic pole.
This perspective is only valid WITHIN the snowglobe.

From outside the island's dimension, these coordinates are worthless. To ENTER the Snowglobe, the helicopter must have locked onto the radio signal from Naomi's phone and followed it until they saw some kind of Aurora. Then they just dived into the light.

Now, once inside the snowglobe and from a islander's perspective, Frank's chopper would be coming in from a bearing of 145 degrees or South-East, since they used the Entrance-Portal in the Pacific.

Then, like Daniel might have really suggest Frank to do, if they keep following that 145-degree bearing straight ahead, they will end up with a North-West direction of 325 degrees. In other words: the way out.

Now, if the freighter is in the Pacific Ocean and the way out leads to the Indian Ocean, why would Daniel put Frank on that bearing, if they knew they wanted to get to the ship?

Options:

1) Daniel didn't want Frank to come back to the freighter.

1b) He actually sent Frank to a 145 degree bearing, or reversed path, back to where they came from. In this case, maybe Daniel sent them on purpose because he knows of the 1-way nature of the portals. So he knew they wouldnt be able to get out.

1c) The Portals are 2-way.

Yeah, that makes sense. So, if Daniel sent Frank to 325, it would be a continuation of the flight path in. If he sent to him 145, it be a back track. 325 - 1 way exit portal (to the wrong Ocean). 145 - 2 way entr-exit to Freighter, or 1 way entance and dun, dun, dun for Frank et al.

Gotcha ;) The whole circling the South Magnetic Pole of the Island was throwing me off. Trying to keep pace with the new infomartion and the theory evolution :biggrin:

Maybe Ben had the plane planted, and that's why he tells Alex that he just "can't" let them go back. Ben wanted the search for 815 to end so that no one would stumble upon the island. Maybe Oceanic didn't have anything to do with the Sunda Trench hoax, so then when the Oceanic Six showed up, they really had to come up with a doozy story for the survivors to tell, in exchange for a healthy compensation package.