Isn't it nice to see Claire so happy and care free now that Charlie is dead?
Who needs to grieve? I mean he died like a day or so ago? How long can
you be sad?

I was really thinking the same thing. Not even a mention of Charlie.

Thank God you're being sarcastic. When I saw the thread title I wasn't sure, then I read the post and laughed. I'm completely over Claire like she's over Charlie. I'm done with her. Worst bit of memory loss we've seen yet, and this show is guilty of many many cases of amnesia.

I agree, it was quite horrible. I mean, Charlie was practically the father of her child and she (as well as Hurley, come to think of it) was perfectly happy.

I was really thinking the same thing. Not even a mention of Charlie.

I least Desmond doesn't look like he's happy. Even though he must feel guilty for lying to Charlie. From the unfolding events it seem he saw HIMSELF getting on a chopper after Charlie dies. He must have manipulated Charlie by saying Claire left the island by chopper. Unless that is she still does?

I was thinking the same thing. It was so weird to see her so happy and carefree. It's like Charlie never existed.

My thoughts exactly. Claire used to be one of my favorite characters and her relationship with Charlie was also one of the first "ships" that I cheered for, but they ruined both of them. They were just bit of innocence in the show, now Claire is just completely oblivious and pretty uncaring. Maybe Locke drugged her or something.

yeah...this episode suffered from tunnel vision of the worst kind. it was so obvious the writers were thinking "kate," in the process booting a good chance to deal with Claire's grief. Had she just mentioned being upset to Kate I think I could have completely overlooked the last couple of weeks of people not noticing Charlie's death...they were so perfectly set up to deal with it tonight...

oh well. the episode was mediocre...still better than the weakest moments of the last two seasons.

It's totally turned me against the character and for the first time I had to go vent in the I'm Not Into You section. It's turned me from a C/C shipper to a Claire hater. She had periods of being cold as ice with Charlie before but this just tears it. I no longer believe she ever cared about him and he DIED FOR HER!!!! Gah, I'm so angry.

***mod edit I too though thought she acted strangly.

Yeah, I HATED that. How can she not be grieving over Charlie, he JUST died? Everyone on that damn island is acting like Charlie never existed.

I know! I mean, like, one day has passed since she found out Charlie was dead, and she's all cheerful and doesn't even mention him?

And she's just blissfully doing laundry and hanging out in otherville (seemingly without other friends before Kate came along) and not asking Locke (or even Kate) ANY questions? Not wanting to find out more and maybe reconsider why SHE wants to stay or why she may want to leave???

Sawyer's assessment appears to be correct. She was being quite a mindless sheep in this episode.

yeah...this episode suffered from tunnel vision of the worst kind. it was so obvious the writers were thinking "kate," in the process booting a good chance to deal with Claire's grief. Had she just mentioned being upset to Kate I think I could have completely overlooked the last couple of weeks of people not noticing Charlie's death...they were so perfectly set up to deal with it tonight...

oh well. the episode was mediocre...still better than the weakest moments of the last two seasons.

It seems in a lot of ways the creative team are trying to keep the story new to keep any new audience they might get rather than keep older story threads alive.

You know what I just realized this too. They could have had a least a couple of lines about him. Poor writing.

How wonderful for Claire. So happy now that Charlie's dead. I guess he was a real pain to her and an obstacle for her happiness. As a PB&J shipper (well, former now :rolleyes: ), I guess I can't pretend or delusion myself anymore that there might be a tiny part of her that cared for Charlie.

I'm done with her. I can't believe her.

Wow.

I have no words.

I'm so not a shipper.. not by any means... but... I couldn't believe they were all so so care free and especially noticed that there was no mention of charlie.. nothing... and there were so many times it could have been there... when Aaron was crying and Kate didn't pick him up I figured Claire would tearfully recall how Charlie was there for them and loved Aaron..

It was one of the most poorly written moment in the shows history. I am insulted by the writers treatment of the character. There is time for rediculous sexual games with *sigh* Sawyer and Kate, when a real relationship is completely ignored. Poor, poor writing on it's lowest level.

How wonderful for Claire. So happy now that Charlie's dead. I guess he was a real pain to her and an obstacle for her happiness. As a PB&J shipper (well, former now :rolleyes: ), I guess I can't pretend or delusion myself anymore that there might be a tiny part of her that cared for Charlie.


No part at all. You're right lune, she's glad he's gone, he was just a bother to have around. Kate can help with Aaron just as easily...oh wait she can't. Well, I'm sure someone else will go on walks with her...oh wait there's no one asking her to do that. Well maybe if she's lucky she'll find someone else who's willing to die for her and her child.

And as for them moving forward for the sake of the story and new viewers, that's a poor excuse. This is a serialized drama. Continuity is everything. It claims to be character driven (although I don't believe that for a minute). How many scenes have we now had since the beginning of the season of Kate flirting with jack, flirting with Sawyer, using Jack, using Sawyer. Plenty of time for that continuity. The writers just need to kill Claire already because they obviously don't care about her. And they must really have no regard for her fans.

Don't shoot me. Because I totally hear you all on what you are saying. I really do. BUT, I THINK that the point of showing her happy or whatever, was to contrast with the fact that Kate is going to be raising Aaron, and that Claire may die or at least be separated from Aaron permanently.

That doesn't excuse the lack of Charlie references. But I think that's what they were trying to accomplish. Albeit misguidedly.

Happy B-day LL...just saw you listed at the bottom of the home thread page. Hope you had a good one

And as for them moving forward for the sake of the story and new viewers, that's a poor excuse. This is a serialized drama. Continuity is everything. It claims to be character driven (although I don't believe that for a minute). How many scenes have we now had since the beginning of the season of Kate flirting with jack, flirting with Sawyer, using Jack, using Sawyer. Plenty of time for that continuity. The writers just need to kill Claire already because they obviously don't care about her. And they must really have no regard for her fans.

I think they have thrown continuity out the door.

I'm hoping that the writers have this all planned out, and that the death hasn't "hit" Claire yet. When trouble arrives, she is going to be scared and realise that Charlie really isn't around anymore; then we will get to see her true feelings come out.
Because, these days it seems character development only takes place in centric episodes...

But Laura, that just goes to prove that Claire exists only to serve and drive other character's stories. She's never entitled to any development of her own. She gets her first scenes of the season and they're only to contrast her with Kate? They could have used any redshirt for that. That's no better.

I completely agree! It has been mere days since Charlie died to save her! The enhanced episodes are so clearly geared to folks who've never seen the show that it seems TPTB are focused on the attempt to draw in new viewers.......who don't know Charlie, so why over-complicate the new episodes by mentioning him!

I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see how anyone can get "Claire and the rest of the group doesn't care that Charlie is gone" out of all of 2 minutes of Claire being on screen.

I agree that there should be a mention here or there of what Charlie has done, but keep in mind that Desmond is really the only person that knows what happened. We haven't seen anything on the show where he has told them step by step what happened or that Charlie knew of his death and sacraficed himself. I don't recall Desmond announcing his "gift" to the rest of the group.

Also, I for one can say that there have been occasions in my life (and that of my family's) where we have lost a loved one but shared good moments as well, we have even shared laughter at the wake of a loved one. Sometimes humor is the best way to deal with grief. Life goes on. These are people living in extreme circumstances and had no hope at all and now there's a chance that they all might live. They don't know what we do (so far) about their fate. I'm not going to hate the girl just because she is sharing a cup of coffee with a friend.

Sorry for my little rant but I think people are being a bit harsh on the poor girl.

I'm hoping that the writers have this all planned out, and that the death hasn't "hit" Claire yet. When trouble arrives, she is going to be scared and realise that Charlie really isn't around anymore; then we will get to see her true feelings come out.
Because, these days it seems character development only takes place in centric episodes...

But by that time it's only going to make her look WORSE. She only thinks about Charlie when she needs him to protect her? Did she even care about him for who he was or was it only because he did things for her?

I've been thinking the same thing!! I keep hoping since episode one of this season that there would be a little "break down" scene where she would at least get a little "misty-eyed" and wax fondly about Charlie. But it's like, "Charlie?" "Charlie who?"

But yet we go on and on for an entire two episodes about Naomi's death?!? Sayid's episode was constantly infiltrated by Naomi's dead presence!

Maybe she's in shock... It's not natural...that's for sure.

Don't shoot me. Because I totally hear you all on what you are saying. I really do. BUT, I THINK that the point of showing her happy or whatever, was to contrast with the fact that Kate is going to be raising Aaron, and that Claire may die or at least be separated from Aaron permanently.

That doesn't excuse the lack of Charlie references. But I think that's what they were trying to accomplish. Albeit misguidedly. Not shooting you. I think that's exactly what they were trying to do. But it didn't make sense considering that her boyfriend died the day before. But like pace said, I think the writers just don't care about the character anymore and they don't bother having any continuity. It's an insult to her fans.

I love Pacejunkie and I used to think it was just bitterness over Charlie being axed, and this might seem lame, but after watching the first two episodes of the new Jericho season I'm convinced that there can definelty be room to have great story and action with just a small scene of showing some emotion or grief.

Would it really be too much to ask to have had a 2 minute scene where say Claire is making coffee for the two of them but then suddenly breaks down in tears and Kate consoles her? It would added a lot and fit in a lot better than the two of them just sitting there laughing.

Yeah, since The Beginning of the End there's been like zero thought of Charlie. And I understand they need to move the story along pretty fast and so even though I'm a huge Charlie fan i've been ok with Desmond getting on the helicopter and all that stuff, but this really made me mad. Claire wouldnt be like that. At all. They should have at least had a scene were Claire was sad and Kate could comfort her for like two seconds, is that too much to ask? I dunno, I just thought it was a bit tasteless and crossed the line a bit, but I did love the episode as a whole!

And is Claire ever gonna get the greatest hits list? I was hoping maybe when they showed Aaron he'd have the DS ring on or something.

Happy B-day LL...just saw you listed at the bottom of the home thread page. Hope you had a good one

Thank you so much! It was a Lost day, so of course I had a good b-day!

But Laura, that just goes to prove that Claire exists only to serve and drive other character's stories. She's never entitled to any development of her own. She gets her first scenes of the season and they're only to contrast her with Kate? They could have used any redshirt for that. That's no better.

Hm, I see what you are saying, but I was actually thinking that they were contrasting Claire's on-island life with her future... non-existence? Do you know what I mean? Foreshadowing her death (or whatever happens)? Maybe she'll get an upcoming episode. I have *some* hope for that. I have always really, really liked Claire. She's had low character moments, but so have all of the characters. And she's had lack of development, lack of screen time. But I still really like her. I loved the initial reaction over Charlie's death, and I'm just HOPING that this episode was a little bit of a slip-up that had good intentions. I also think chellly has a point, for sure.

My biggest qualm is that EDR should have been given better direction or slightly better writing (or maybe better acting skills) to play Claire in this episode just more "down." I don't think Charlie HAD to be mentioned, or that she had to be crying. But she needed to look less content. That's my biggest issue.

Naomi was killed in front of everyone, while Charlie died out of view. Many peoples way of dealing with stress is to pretend it didn't happened. It will no doubt hit her later. You guys have been dealing with Charlies death for months; her, a couple days. Avoiding the issue is a perfectly natural coping mechanism. It'll catch up with her, watch.

Not shooting you. I think that's exactly what they were trying to do. But it didn't make sense considering that her boyfriend died the day before. But like pace said, I think the writers just don't care about the character anymore and they don't bother having any continuity. It's an insult to her fans.


CINTHIA!!!! :glomp: Its great to see you. Again i think it was a mix of writing and the actress. I mean remember how sorrowfull Sayid was after Shannon died. He didnt get much lines but you could since his pain. They totally had an oprotunity during the laundry scene but didnt. I was actually saying to my self the charlie fans are going to be PISSED! :rolleyes: ;)

Naomi was killed in front of everyone, while Charlie died out of view. Many peoples way of dealing with stress is to pretend it didn't happened. It will no doubt hit her later. You guys have been dealing with Charlies death for months; her, a couple days. Avoiding the issue is a perfectly natural coping mechanism. It'll catch up with her, watch.

Exactly what I was thinking, and in fact she might not believe that he's dead. He did tell her "don't worry about me while I'm gone," so she might be thinking that he's going to turn up again, that his absence was all planned. And she still has the ring and the greatest hits list to discover, so perhaps that will be final proof to her that he's really gone. Maybe they're saving that moment for her next centric episode.

Would it really be too much to ask to have had a 2 minute scene where say Claire is making coffee for the two of them but then suddenly breaks down in tears and Kate consoles her? It would added a lot and fit in a lot better than the two of them just sitting there laughing. It doesn't even take 2 minutes! only 10 seconds. Kate and Claire are doing laundry and Kate notices Claire is holding back tears, Kate pats Claire on her back, continue scene. 10 seconds. 10 freaking' seconds of seeing Claire not having such a great time. I can't quite believe what I've been seeing today. And to say that I was ready to give the show another shot.

There is only a certain amount of screen time every episode. They addressed Charlie's death in great detail in The Beginning Of The End. I see no reason to bring it up and slow down the pace of the story even more.

Poor Claire missing Charlie so bad she just acquired selective memory. Ahhh Charlie who? Maybe the island "cured" her of her sadness.:undecide:

My biggest qualm is that EDR should have been given better direction or slightly better writing (or maybe better acting skills) to play Claire in this episode just more "down." I don't think Charlie HAD to be mentioned, or that she had to be crying. But she needed to look less content. That's my biggest issue.

That would have been something at least. But you're right in that Emilie really blew it.

It doesn't even take 2 minutes! only 10 seconds. Kate and Claire are doing laundry and Kate notices Claire is holding back tears, Kate pats Claire on her back, continue scene. 10 seconds. 10 freaking' seconds of seeing Claire not having such a great time. I can't quite believe what I've been seeing today. And to say that I was ready to give the show another shot.

That already happened in TBOTE. And it would completely shift the focus of that scene which was on Kate's reaction to Aaron which was very important in the context of the ending.

I really think that we can probably look forward to a Claire-centric episode in the near future that shows us just what she's gone through since Charlie's death and really do it some justice. These scenes, where she seems to be all smiles with Kate hanging up the laundry, it's just a moment in her life when she was putting on a smile, a strong front, like any good single-mother would. This was just not her episode. When it is, I really think, and hope, we'll see and understand just how Charlie's death has affected her. Based on the Aaron reveal, there's alot more to know about Claire.

There is only a certain amount of screen time every episode. They addressed Charlie's death in great detail in The Beginning Of The End. I see no reason to bring it up and slow down the pace of the story even more. How about continuity? You didn't see Shannon having happy conversations with her friends after Boone died. She was looking terrible in the background.

Anyway, I was about to write a lengthy response but it's really not worth my time and efforts. They could have made their point of Kate being uncomfortable with Aaron without destroying Claire's character.

I agree that Emilie did a bloody awful job. ***mod edit

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who's upset about this. I was expecting to come here ranting and get the classic: "You're just saying that because you're a Charlie fan!"

So it's nice to know most of you agree. I hope Darlton are proud.

There is only a certain amount of screen time every episode. They addressed Charlie's death in great detail in The Beginning Of The End. I see no reason to bring it up and slow down the pace of the story even more.

Great detail?? I think we watched different versions of that episode.

I know there's only limited screen time in each episode but there is no reason why they couldn't have written the coffee scene in a better way. Instead of having it on the porch, have it in the kitchen. Claire and Kate sitting in the kitchen making the coffee and she starts crying. Kate goes over, gives her a hug says "It'll be ok, we'll get through this" or something like that. Knock on the door, it's Sawyer, Kate then goes outside with him on the porch and they have the same conversation they did. It can take up the same amount of screen time as the scene in the episode tonight.

Yeah, I forgot about the DS ring. She probably just chucked it. It didn't fit.

you guys are weird :) Actors don't show up to the set and act the way they want. There are directors there to, uh, direct those actors. If Emilie was playing it too chipper then the director would have another take of it.

Personally, what bothered me more was when Locke threw the tray against the concrete wall and it bounced around. Now THATS a problem.

you guys are weird :) Actors don't show up to the set and act the way they want. There are directors there to, uh, direct those actors. If Emilie was playing it too chipper then the director would have another take of it.

Personally, what bothered me more was when Locke threw the tray against the concrete wall and it bounced around. Now THATS a problem.

The trays have strange magnetic properties. Don't you watch the show?

I thought all the scenes with Claire were odd tonight. I'm really disappointed that the writers didn't have her a least being somewhat distrcted. I can see the laundry scene playing out just like they wrote it with one difference - when Kate told Claire that she was such a good mother, she should have looked stricken and thinking of all the lectures she got from Charlie or something like that. It wouldn't have taken long and would give respect to both characters.

The trays have strange magnetic properties. Don't you watch the show?

ha ha. I meant the WALL bounced around. Should've been clearer.

you guys are weird :) Actors don't show up to the set and act the way they want. There are directors there to, uh, direct those actors. If Emilie was playing it too chipper then the director would have another take of it.
The thing is, on this show the actors usually film several emotional reactions, and then the editors + Damon and Carlton choose the one they want to go with.

I agree, it is unsettling. I'm a huge Kate fan, and I could have used at least 5 minutes less time with her on the island and more of something else, especially Claire's sadness. :frown:

I understand why we'd feel upset that Claire doesn't grieve Charlie and/or are annoyed with the writers for leaving her grief out of the story. It seems offensive for her to be laughing and smiling so soon after losing Charlie. The same thing happened with Hurley after Libby died, remember? He didn't seem to grieve until we saw the scene (quite a bit later ion the season) where he's sitting by her grave...

When someone you love dies, you do go into an emotional shock. Yes, you break down and you cry and scream and just when you think you're going to totally lose your mind you go numb again. I'm thinking what people would say if they'd seen a small scene from my life two days after my husband died. I took my kids and went with a neighbor to see Shrek. And I laughed and laughed and you never would have known I was a new widow. Even so soon after a death like that, you have to be able to smile and laugh for a period of time, a couple of hours, or you will go insane or die too.

So when I saw Claire laughing and smiling, I thought of me at the movies that day.

I love Pacejunkie and I used to think it was just bitterness over Charlie being axed, and this might seem lame, but after watching the first two episodes of the new Jericho season I'm convinced that there can definelty be room to have great story and action with just a small scene of showing some emotion or grief.

Would it really be too much to ask to have had a 2 minute scene where say Claire is making coffee for the two of them but then suddenly breaks down in tears and Kate consoles her? It would added a lot and fit in a lot better than the two of them just sitting there laughing.

Amazing... watching each scene with Claire (all obvious a setup for Kate's later revelations), I couldn't help but think, "The Charlie community is *not* going to accept this lack of grief."

I think an inclusion of your idea of a simple break-into-tears scene could have saved this backlash...
It's a shame TPTB didn't write/keep it in.

Instead we got a card/memory game with the new kids.
Sort of reminds me of the Nikki-Paulo debacle - our already established characters are losing valuable minutes to cater to newbies.

Add in the ending Aaron scene, and things don't look too good for Claire.
I always thought Claire was chronically underused; even when she *does* have a deserving (and anticipated) moment, it simply isn't given to her.

Don't blame Claire.
Blame whoever decided to leave it out or not write it at all.

Great detail?? I think we watched different versions of that episode.

They spent about half the episode on the death. That is more then any character has gotten and imo is more then enough especially considering the season was supposed to be only 16 episodes.


I know there's only limited screen time in each episode but there is no reason why they couldn't have written the coffee scene in a better way. Instead of having it on the porch, have it in the kitchen. Claire and Kate sitting in the kitchen making the coffee and she starts crying. Kate goes over, gives her a hug says "It'll be ok, we'll get through this" or something like that. Knock on the door, it's Sawyer, Kate then goes outside with him on the porch and they have the same conversation they did. It can take up the same amount of screen time as the scene in the episode tonight.You are making an assumption that Claire method of dealing with grief is the same as you expect. Everyone deals in a different way with grief, some like not to show that they are sad. It is entirely possible that Claire did not want to show her feelings to Kate(or anyone else for that matter) and Kate probably did not push it because she did not want to talk about it especially due to the fact that she is not close enough to Claire in the first place to talk to her on that topic.

When someone you love dies, you do go into an emotional shock. Yes, you break down and you cry and scream and just when you think you're going to totally lose your mind you go numb again. I'm thinking what people would say if they'd seen a small scene from my life two days after my husband died. I took my kids and went with a neighbor to see Shrek. And I laughed and laughed and you never would have known I was a new widow. Even so soon after a death like that, you have to be able to smile and laugh for a period of time, a couple of hours, or you will go insane or die too.

So when I saw Claire laughing and smiling, I thought of me at the movies that day.

Thank you for sharing that. And that was exactly my point. Everyone deals with grief differently. If this is the first time a person has experienced a loss of someone so close they might not really know how to deal. When my grandmother died my grandfather didn't really grieve until a month or so after her death, and they had been married for 52 years. It's almost as if the mind keeps you going on autopilot until you are ready to deal with it.

Irish, thank you for sharing your story.No part at all. You're right lune, she's glad he's gone, he was just a bother to have around.Personally, I've never felt that Claire was too vested in her relationship with Charlie, but I too think she could've been a little less chipper. If she wasn't in love with him she still lost a great friend. :(
I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see how anyone can get "Claire and the rest of the group doesn't care that Charlie is gone" out of all of 2 minutes of Claire being on screen.

I agree that there should be a mention here or there of what Charlie has done, but keep in mind that Desmond is really the only person that knows what happened. We haven't seen anything on the show where he has told them step by step what happened or that Charlie knew of his death and sacraficed himself. I don't recall Desmond announcing his "gift" to the rest of the group.

Also, I for one can say that there have been occasions in my life (and that of my family's) where we have lost a loved one but shared good moments as well, we have even shared laughter at the wake of a loved one. Sometimes humor is the best way to deal with grief. Life goes on. These are people living in extreme circumstances and had no hope at all and now there's a chance that they all might live. They don't know what we do (so far) about their fate. I'm not going to hate the girl just because she is sharing a cup of coffee with a friend.

Sorry for my little rant but I think people are being a bit harsh on the poor girl.Great post! :thumbsup:

And she still has the ring and the greatest hits list to discover.I'm pretty sure the ring was left on the beach and the list is lost somewhere in the sky. :(

How about continuity? Blame Greg Nations. Isn't he supposed to be the one that keeps track of all that stuff in the scripts?

But we've seen Claire deal with the loss of someone she loved. She looked pretty shaken up after her mother's accident. And I remember the lack of Hurley grief for Libby. From what I understand, the writer kind of regretted that after.

Thank you for sharing that. And that was exactly my point. Everyone deals with grief differently. If this is the first time a person has experienced a loss of someone so close they might not really know how to deal. When my grandmother died my grandfather didn't really grieve until a month or so after her death, and they had been married for 52 years. It's almost as if the mind keeps you going on autopilot until you are ready to deal with it.


That is perfectly true and in reality I accept that but I don't accept it here. There are other subtle ways to show that that is what is going in here if that were the case. Claire could be overcompensating and Kate could ask her if she's sure she's all right and Claire could insist she is. If Emilie is any kind of an actress we would know by her demeanour that she was covering. But that's not what was going on here. It was 100% as if Charlie had never existed. She wasn't overcompensating or in denial, which you could read between the lines, she was really perfectly fine. It was both written and played badly.
100%

Blame Greg Nations. Isn't he supposed to be the one that keeps track of all that stuff in the scripts?

Not only that but in this case he wrote the gorram thing. There really is no excuse.

They spent about half the episode on the death. That is more then any character has gotten and imo is more then enough especially considering the season was supposed to be only 16 episodes.

You are making an assumption that Claire method of dealing with grief is the same as you expect. Everyone deals in a different way with grief, some like not to show that they are sad. It is entirely possible that Claire did not want to show her feelings to Kate(or anyone else for that matter) and Kate probably did not push it because she did not want to talk about it especially due to the fact that she is not close enough to Claire in the first place to talk to her on that topic.


While I completely and utterly disagree that they spend HALF the episode dealing with Charlie's death, I'll concede your second point. I still don't like it though :)

That is perfectly true and in reality I accept that but I don't accept it here. There are other subtle ways to show that that is what is going in here if that were the case. Claire could be overcompensating and Kate could ask her if she's sure she's all right and Claire could insist she is. If Emilie is any kind of an actress we would know by her demeanour that she was covering. But that's not what was going on here. It was 100% as if Charlie had never existed. She wasn't overcompensating or in denial, which you could read between the lines, she was really perfectly fine. It was both written and played badly.
100%


Not only that but in this case he wrote the gorram thing. There really is no excuse.

Thats pretty much the way I feel about it. What makes it worse is, now in a later episode they are going to trot out a scene where she breaks down while reading the Greatest Hits list Charlie left and it will make me cringe horribly.

Blame Greg Nations. Isn't he supposed to be the one that keeps track of all that stuff in the scripts? Do we really need someone working on continuity to remind actors and writing staff (or themselves in this case) that Charlie just died? :confused:

I have a feeling that later on, Gregg Nations is going to regret the way he wrote Claire in this episode. A couple of times -- Nikki and Paulo being one great example -- the writers have been surprised by our reaction to how they present a storyline. I don't know if it's the pressure they're under or what. In this case, maybe none of the writers have lost a significant other? Claire subdued or Claire happy in one scene but sad in another would have been more understandable or easy to accept. Sometimes there's a denial with death, especially if there isn't a body to grieve over. Sometimes you almost have a fantasy process of thought like he's just around the bend and this isn't happening to me, if I laugh hard enough reality will come back and there he'll be. That would have made more sense too if the writing presented it that way but...it didn't.

Do we really need someone working on continuity to remind actors and writing staff (or themselves in this case) that Charlie just died? :confused:

:biggrin: OMG I know! It's not like a long forgotten plot point. This isn't the four toed statue or the black and white stones. :rolleyes:

Come on guys, so what Claire's not crying/sad all the time,
its a tough time for her and she's being strong by keeping
her feelings together, anyway she's already grieved her
heart out with Hurley over Charlie's death,

So give her a break,

Isn't it nice to see Claire so happy and care free now that Charlie is dead?
Who needs to grieve? I mean he died like a day or so ago? How long can
you be sad?

I 100% agree with that. It's impossible to think that she'd be over Charlie's death so quickly.

I was kinda waiting for that kind of moment myself with Claire. I suppose she could be coping or repressing. Or she could be pulling a Faraday and losing some of her memory, 'cause hey, wouldn't be the first time!

Agreed with all those saying Claire seems way too unfazed by Charlie's death... I know it's been months since he died in OUR time, but it's been, at most, a couple of days for her. La le la le la, mmm... coffee! Charlie who?

Sigh. I dunno. I can't be hard on Gregg or Elizabeth Sarnoff in particular. As I and someone else already said, it's not like we haven't had this problem before on Lost. I mean, Sayid probably had the most time out of anyone to grieve, but I think the only reason they let him grieve so much over Shannon is because it was usable as a plot point for why he would be so angry with "Henry." And people were then complaining at how quickly he'd moved on from Nadia to Shannon.
Hurley had no time to grieve for Libby at first.
I dunno, I guess I'm just going to hope that she has more time to grieve later, esp. in a centric eppy, and/or when she finds the letter/ring, whatever....
shrug.

Isn't it nice to see Claire so happy and care free now that Charlie is dead?
Who needs to grieve? I mean he died like a day or so ago? How long can
you be sad?

So, in another thread, I suggested that they didn't have time to grieve, what with their lives constantly being threatened. But, in retrospect, you're right. Claire did look awfully serene.

And if Kate has time to flirt and Sawyer has time to con and Hurley has time to watch a movie, Claire has time to grieve. All those other things were more important.

You know I was thinking the same thing. But I'm hoping that maybe there is a reason why Claire and even Hurley for that matter are ignoring Charlie's death.

Believe it or not Charlie and Claire is the couple that got me hooked on this show (and I am a hardcore jater) and ever since season 2 I have hated how the writers wrote Charlie and Claire.

Season one they were perfect together and the writers seemed to destroy everything about them and continue to after Charlies death even.

I do not blame Emilee de Ravn or even the character of Claire.


I put ALL the blame on the writers shoulders for this.

I love Hurley too and he has shown no emotion this eppi for his death either.

I think the C/C shippers are the ones who got shafted the worst on this show out of all the ships.

Claire was an afterthought in a Kate-centric ep. What's so new about that? There's only so much screentime to go around, and the story must go on.

Claire was an afterthought in a Kate-centric ep. What's so new about that? There's only so much screentime to go around, and the story must go on.

But for once it wasn't an issue of screentime. Claire had the screentime, it was what they chose to do with it that was all wrong. She was in three substantial scenes, but she was just too darn happy and at peace. It would have taken no additional screentime to write the scenes differently, accomplishing the same ends for Kate's story. Claire only needed to mention Charlie once or seem even slightly distracted. People act as if we're complaining she wasn't the focus or the ep or that she wasn't wearing mourning clothes and bawling her eyes out. That's not it at all. Just something to show she's thinking of Charlie and misses him.

But for once it wasn't an issue of screentime. Claire had the screentime, it was what they chose to do with it that was all wrong. She was in three substantial scenes, but she was just too darn happy and at peace. It would have taken no additional screentime to write the scenes differently, accomplishing the same ends for Kate's story. Claire only needed to mention Charlie once or seem even slightly distracted. People act as if we're complaining she wasn't the focus or the ep or that she wasn't wearing mourning clothes and bawling her eyes out. That's not it at all. Just something to show she's thinking of Charlie and misses him.Well thats the whole point of it. They really could've reversed the scene just before Locke banishes Kate. Kate was the one moping and Claire was comforting her!!!

I'm sorry, I still don't see what all the hubub is about. It is completely possible that I don't see it because I never saw this great romance between the two. I'm not denying they cared for one another but I never saw the deep passion/love between them that I saw between Sayid and Shannon. And no, I'm not saying that because they never shared a love scene...it was just the overall interaction between the two. To me Claire always came off as not being as in to him as he was to her.

I'm not going to get into the whole Charlie soap box thing, but that along with the fact that she's with the non-rescue hide-on-the-island team and being that cheery... it's just too out-of-character.

You know I was thinking the same thing. But I'm hoping that maybe there is a reason why Claire and even Hurley for that matter are ignoring Charlie's death.

I'm hoping that Hurley and Claire are leaning on each other a bit to help cope, and it's just not being shown. Hopefully we'll see it at some point, since I think it would be fitting and touching. Right now its total absence is conspicuous.

I'm sorry, I still don't see what all the hubub is about. It is completely possible that I don't see it because I never saw this great romance between the two. I'm not denying they cared for one another but I never saw the deep passion/love between them that I saw between Sayid and Shannon. And no, I'm not saying that because they never shared a love scene...it was just the overall interaction between the two. To me Claire always came off as not being as in to him as he was to her.

I got the same impression, but I felt like he was growing on her and had proven himself in ways that were important considering their past troubles and her own personal history. Not seeing a stronger reaction from her over his death can be explained in many perfectly good ways, but it just feels like a remarkable lack of awareness/appreciation on her part. I want Claire to at least have that for Charlie, even if she didn't love him madly.

Claire's behavior is absolutely not out of character for her. Look at each of Claire's three episodes:

'Par Avion': Compare the way Claire interacts with her comatose mother. She bottles it up, and acts like there's nothing wrong with her mother until she's absolutely forced to deal with the reality of it.

'Maternity Leave': Claire buried her memories of the Staff (and before that, everything else since the crash), until Libby brought them to the surface.

'Raised by Another': She says her mother would disown her for being pregnant. Her boyfriend says she basically already has. She also requests that Aaron's would-be adoptive parents sing her the song that her father (who she wanted nothing to do with) sang to her when she was a baby.

In other episodes, Claire has buried her feelings for Charlie on numerous occasions for various reasons, and never directly dealt with Desmond's premonitions of Charlie's death too. Now she's refusing to deal with the death itself.

In short, Claire is VERY good at repressing things. She lets them all out at once ONLY when she's forced to. She cares plenty about these things, but being all chipper in the face of tragedy is basically her consistent character trait. Jack's is saving, Kate's is running, Sawyer's is conning, Claire's is denial.

I agree and had the same reaction.
How could Claire be so ecstatically happy just one day after finding out that Charlie had died?
Bad writing, that's how.

I'm sorry, I still don't see what all the hubub is about. It is completely possible that I don't see it because I never saw this great romance between the two. I'm not denying they cared for one another but ..<snip>.....

I'm sorry to inform you that someday you will understand what the hubub is about.

The unexpected loss of a good friend (let alone a loved one) is totally devastating.

In your real life, is there any person you care about whose sudden, unexpected death wouldn't bum you out for at least a day or two?
Sheesh.
WAA.

There is no way that Claire could be so perky and upbeat at this point in time.
No way.
Except for bad writing.
Bummer.

I don't think Charlie HAD to be mentioned, or that she had to be crying. But she needed to look less content. That's my biggest issue.Absolutely. Maggie Grace did a terrific job after Boone's death. She went from looking like a pampered princess to looking hollow and wrecked. They didn't need to even mention Boone. You could just see that her brother's death was still cutting her deep.

After the complaints about Hurley forgetting Libby's death too soon they should've known better. This has been handled even worse than Hurley's Libby grief. What makes it worse is the Hurley/Libby ship was short-lived - Charlie/Claire lasted 3 seasons! I'm not gonna make excuses like "Maybe Claire is dealing with her grief in a different way". I think the truth is that the writers, director and actress weren't thinking about Claire's grief at all. Either they decided to skip it or they completely forgot about it. I'm not sure which is more insulting for the poor PB&J fans.

The lack of Charlie mourning is impossible to excuse now. Before you could say there was too much action, they had to concentrate on surviving, etc. Now they are all just lounging around Otherville or on the beach with nothing much to do. Hurley or Claire could have easily organized a memorial or a minutes silence or something. In S1 Claire organized a memorial for the crash victims (who she never even knew) and Hurley has always made an effort to see that his campmates had funerals, even redshirts. That neither Hurley or Claire are mourning or remembering their closest friend of 3 seasons is not in character at all. It is waaaay out of character. This isn't just about how Charlie was their friend or how Charlie sacrificed his life for the group. Charlie's a human being and his passing deserves some recognition even if it's just out of respect not genuine grief. Sayid showed Naomi this respect and he didn't even know the woman. I don't believe there is no time to do this. There is plenty of time. If there isn't they should make time for it because it IS important.

It feels like the smalls shows of grief in ep1 were not really a tribute to the loss of his character - it was more a functional necessity to get Charlie's death out of the way. It's awful.

I mostly lurk on here, but I want to reply to this.

Having lost some close family members, I have to say that the real grief often doesn't set in until several days after losing someone. There is a whole numbness first.

Also some people, of whom I am one, try to keep those feelings of grief private.

I thought it was well acted - Claire seemed happy and yet, fragile. She wasn't sleeping well.

And often after a death, it is hard to talk about the person that has died.

I didn't see anything weird about it while watching it. I didn't even think about it until I saw this thread.

I have to add my disappointment at this lack of grief over Charlie's death. I mean even denial can be written better than this. It wasn't satisfying at all.

Claire had three scenes. Showing her in of the grief stages in at least ONE of those three scenes wouldn't have slowed down the plot or make it about her instead of about Kate.

This and Kate's ridiculous "trial" were really low points for me.

Claire's behavior is absolutely not out of character for her. Look at each of Claire's three episodes:

'Par Avion': Compare the way Claire interacts with her comatose mother. She bottles it up, and acts like there's nothing wrong with her mother until she's absolutely forced to deal with the reality of it.

'Maternity Leave': Claire buried her memories of the Staff (and before that, everything else since the crash), until Libby brought them to the surface.

'Raised by Another': She says her mother would disown her for being pregnant. Her boyfriend says she basically already has. She also requests that Aaron's would-be adoptive parents sing her the song that her father (who she wanted nothing to do with) sang to her when she was a baby.

In other episodes, Claire has buried her feelings for Charlie on numerous occasions for various reasons, and never directly dealt with Desmond's premonitions of Charlie's death too. Now she's refusing to deal with the death itself.

In short, Claire is VERY good at repressing things. She lets them all out at once ONLY when she's forced to. She cares plenty about these things, but being all chipper in the face of tragedy is basically her consistent character trait. Jack's is saving, Kate's is running, Sawyer's is conning, Claire's is denial.

Excellent points. Thank you for posting them.

I'm sorry to inform you that someday you will understand what the hubub is about.

The unexpected loss of a good friend (let alone a loved one) is totally devastating.

In your real life, is there any person you care about whose sudden, unexpected death wouldn't bum you out for at least a day or two?
Sheesh.
WAA.

There is no way that Claire could be so perky and upbeat at this point in time.
No way.
Except for bad writing.
Bummer.

You misunderstand what I have said and in my prior posts in this thread. I have acknowledged that I have experienced great loss. I have lost those I deeply loved and those that were friends. I have mourned the loss of people I don't even know simply because I can imagine how the family/friends feel. So yes, I would be bummed. That being said, I am also a mother. I can put myself in Claire's shoes.

In such an extreme situation I don't think it's totally improbable that she is shutting her grief off for now (as is her pattern - thanks to gutsdozer for listing specifics that I have quoted above). Her focus is survival and protecting that child. She might have her own private moments where she grieves for Charlie. Maybe she hasn't been able to deal with what has happened. Until she is ready she shuts that part of her off and goes on until she is ready. That happens quite often IRL.

I have said that I don't disagree that the writers should have shown at least some kind of reaction from her over Charlie's death. As CL said above me that "even denial can be written better". Yes that's true, if given the screen time other than carrying the baby in the backround. Given a couple of lines here and a couple of lines there make it hard to portray much of anything. That's not a character flaw, that's a production flaw.

I dunno I just think folks are being incredibly hard on the poor girl. That's the overall point I have been trying to make. We don't know what the rest of the season holds. If within the next couple of epis we get this great scene of her crumbling under her grief will everyone be happy? Or will they still complain because it wasn't soon enough, it still wasn't enough grieving, etc.?

Blame it on Charlie's ghost...he's probably visiting here and telling her that everything is going to be allright.

;)

I was thinking the same thing. It was so weird to see her so happy and carefree. It's like Charlie never existed.

Why not? Claire just reached the Barracks with a safe roof above her head, enough water and supplies that she might have a hometown feeling. She might mourn for Charlie but probably only when she is alone.
I remember my personal losses. While among my friends they comforted me and I nearly forgot the great loss. Only at night when I tried to get asleep all the memories and thought came back and kept me from sleeping. I was glad when the next day came and my friends distracted me from my grieve.

So, I can't see why she shouldn't be happy when she is among friends.
Maybe Kate gave her so much support that she later gave Aaron into her hands to take care of him.....

I have one more rant about this.. Charlie "died" way back in season one when he was hung from the tree. Jack and Kate were the only ones there to witness it, but they were obviously very shaken up over it. Now, at that time they hadn't known Charlie for very long, but it was still upsetting. Now we're approaching 100 days of living in this small group together, and Charlie dies again and the person/s closest to him is all, "Oh no, Charlie died... OMGHOTCOFFEE! squeee" It's annoying.

I have one more rant about this.. Charlie "died" way back in season one when he was hung from the tree. Jack and Kate were the only ones there to witness it, but they were obviously very shaken up over it. Now, at that time they hadn't known Charlie for very long, but it was still upsetting. Now we're approaching 100 days of living in this small group together, and Charlie dies again and the person/s closest to him is all, "Oh no, Charlie died... OMGHOTCOFFEE! squeee" It's annoying.

The show has lost its heart since S1.

The lack of mourning is just bad karma I feel. At the end of S3 they made such a big deal of showing Charlie being selfless and making the ultimate sacrifice for the sake of his friends and especially for his love of Claire. So contrast that act of heartfelt self-sacrifice with the Lostees lack of grief or even regard for Charlie and it makes them look very selfish and unfeeling. They are too busy planning their post-rescue lives or enjoying their cushy island homes.

Perhaps I was to harsh in my judgement of Claire's lack of showing her loss. She may be just trying very hard to not think about it. Let's start call her "Cleo" the queen of denial.

Huh? People suffering grief never act happy?

Huh? People suffering grief never act happy?

Pleae don't oversimplify. If you read the detailed posts here that's not at all what people are saying.

Don't shoot me. Because I totally hear you all on what you are saying. I really do. BUT, I THINK that the point of showing her happy or whatever, was to contrast with the fact that Kate is going to be raising Aaron, and that Claire may die or at least be separated from Aaron permanently.

That doesn't excuse the lack of Charlie references. But I think that's what they were trying to accomplish. Albeit misguidedly.

You may be right on that and it would make Kate look even worse if it turns out Claire is still alive. It wouldn't be the first time that someone tried to take the baby.

Maybe without Charlie there to get Aaron back(who would fight harder to get Aaron back than Charlie) Kate will succeed where everyone else failed. I mean if Michael could be turned into a killer against is own why not Kate into a kidnapper. The kid did get her sympathy with "mama" so that she didn't testify so Aaron was used even if it was unintentionally.

But yeh I could see them using Claire's smile as a means of displaying the joys of motherhood -- a joy that Claire will lose if Kate takes Aaron(if she doesn't die.) Charlie was Claire(and Aarons) protector no doubt about it and with him gone anything goes.

As for forgetting of Charlie -- I think that TPTB are kind of sacrificing Claire's character development and other storythreads for storylines and characters they think are more important.I think that's a mistake because it leaves too many loose ends but it's their story -- what can you do.

I have one more rant about this.. Charlie "died" way back in season one when he was hung from the tree. Jack and Kate were the only ones there to witness it, but they were obviously very shaken up over it. Now, at that time they hadn't known Charlie for very long, but it was still upsetting. Now we're approaching 100 days of living in this small group together, and Charlie dies again and the person/s closest to him is all, "Oh no, Charlie died... OMGHOTCOFFEE! squeee" It's annoying.

Excellent point! The writing has gone down hill. That was my favorite all time scene. I think my heart almost stopped and I was weeping like a baby. What a relief when Charlie started breathing again.

This is a hard thread. I obviously feel for the people who are saying that Claire could be in denial (esp. based on her previous behaviors of being in denial...) but Claire was just not demonstrating *any* thoughts about Charlie. If she had looked *melancholy* during the laundry scene, that would have worked. The scene where Kate is up not sleeping, CLAIRE could have been sitting there with her, not talking. BOTH of them up, not being able to sleep, and then Locke comes to the door.

It would have taken no extra time.

So while I do feel that Claire could be in denial, whatevski, I just think it wasn't handled as well as it could have been. Up until this episode, I thought the handling of Charlie's death was pitch-perfect. The long build-up to it. His fantastic centric eppy. The actual death scene in TTLG which was heart-breaking. And the gut-wrenching responses of Hurley and Claire in TBOTE. I especially appreciated the way the Losties were placed back at the cockpit in that episode, so that Kate and Jack could reminisce about their very first island trek with Charlie. All very well done. And then last episode I didn't need grieving. But this episode.... sigh. If they get back on track next episode, I'll forgive this misstep, but right now I'm feeling a little miffed.

Again, I'm the one who first said that story-wise I understood what they were aiming for. But I think they missed their target.

Wait... Charlie died?? when the hell did that happen !?!? I though he was still in the hatch pushing the button....... Who's pushing it then, Eko?

Okay, so I was thinking exactly the same thing last night. Claire REALLY did not seem like someone who's "boyfriend" {or whatever she considered him} had just died like, a day prior. I know she didn't have a lot of on-screen time, but you could tell it wasn't on her mind.

"Oh Kate, could you pick up my baby?"
"Aren't you gonna' cry? I mean, Charlie was like, Aaron's dad..."
"Charlie who?"
"Whatever, I'm gonna' go have sex with Sawyer now. Again."
"Have fun!"

It took until episode 10 last season before Hurley addressed Libby's death in a significant way. Give it time, people.

I am glad I am not the only one who thought this as well. If she had just been melancholy, I would have been ok with that, but to be sipping coffee, smiling on a front porch like nothing happened...

I didn't buy it. :(

Well look on the bright side - it's the most dialogue she's had since last season, it seems.

Well, it is easy to say "I hate Claire," but it seems like people are forgetting that Claire is not real and that writers are responsible for her lack of grieving. To me, this just illustrates the larger problem that seems to have occured this season in Lost -- the writers/producers/string-pullers must be pushing for a higher audience and the whole writing team seems to be pandering to a new fan base that isn't coming. We loyal fans have kept this show alive, and I think they owe it to us and to the integrity of the show to write to their vision. All the catch-up lines this season, I can deal with that. And I'll even watch the little pop-up video of last weeks epi before the new one, but I don't know how much I more of this character flattening I can stand.

Sorry for the rant, but that needed to be said.

Pretty strange thread I gotta say. Yes, Claire and Charlie shared a lot of time together lately, but

a) they haven't known each other for *that* long and have shared no more than two subtle kisses
b) it took Claire long to even trust Charlie (remember the heroin? remember him stealing Aaron like a dark priest in the middle of the night?)
c) we already saw the emotional impact of Charlie's death in a previous episode

Should she not be able to smile and laugh again for the next two months? Should every scene with her be written such that the soap opera types get the stereotypical melodrama they expect?

Should she not be able to smile and laugh again for the next two months? Should every scene with her be written such that the soap opera types get the stereotypical melodrama they expect?

So if you had grown extremely close to someone in the events of being stranded on an island after a plane crash; someone that loved you and your child, and then they died...you'd be prefectly happy and smiley the next day?

I was very moved by Charlie's sacrifice last season, but when I was watching the episode, I was just thrilled that Claire got a talking scene. Since all the focus was on Kate, I too forgot that she was supposed to be grieving. I agree that they could have included something to address this, since I thought "The Beginning of the End" focused almost entirely on Hurley and there was practically nothing for Claire.

I do believe they will eventually address this in a satisfying way in the next Claire-centric episode, since they must eventually have Desmond give her the "Greatest Hits" list, wouldn't they? I'm just worried with 3 episodes cut from this season, there'll be a chance any plans of a Claire episode could be delayed or eliminated.

I think the poster who listed Claire's behaviour in previous episode has hit on a convincing reason why Claire is acting so chipper... she is probably focusing all her energy on Aaron and using that to dispel the grief, which is hard to accept since she didn't see it happen and Charlie's body hasn't been recovered.

I agree the writers need to make sure to keep the show's heart as a character drama. Recently, there have been plot advances that don't gel with who the characters are (the unconvincing split between Jack's supporters and Locke's, for example). They've been forgetting the human side of the show as they focus on the mysterious organizations controlling the Oceanic 6 after they escape.

Unfortunately, I think it was just terrible writing by Sarnoff and Nations. The way I see it, Charlie, Claire and Aaron had (have) a very strong bond. I mean, the guy sacrificed himself so they could be rescued, he's the true hero of the show. Claire's scenes in Eggtown were written as if Charlie never existed!

And where are Charlie's greatest hits? Did the writers completely forget about that?!

But see... why does everything have to be shown on screen? Can't we just assume she's grieving in her room in Otherville? Not everything has to be shown on TV. And maybe there just isn't enough time for a 2 minute scene of Claire talking about Charlie and grieving. Especially in a Flashforward episode about Kate. I don't think Claire is fully over it yet but right now isn't the right time to bring it up I think. Lost is a show that's built on many layers and each episode is focused on one or two things.

Basically, I'm sure Claire is still crying at night. And as for the Greatest Hits list... didn't Desmond put that in his shirt pocket and then dive down to the "Looking Glass"? I'm pretty sure that thing is gone and deteriorated somewhere.

someone that loved you and your child, and then they died...you'd be prefectly happy and smiley the next day?
My general mood certainly wouldn't be smiley. But that doesn't mean that I can't have happy moments during the day which also makes it easier to cope with the loss.
We've seen two minutes of Claire in that episode, and everybody freaks out because she doesn't cry her eyes out 24/7.

By the way, it has been two days since Claire learned of Charlie's death, not one.

I responded earlier in the thread that I thought Nations and Sarnoff would have one of those "oops" moments that they had when we reacted strongly about Nikki and Paulo. Maybe neither has lost a family member, definitely not a significant other--I don't know. But I do get it that people would have preferred seeing a subdued Claire.

I lost my first husband. Shock over the first three months numbs you although there are times when the emotional novocaine wears off and you are hit with this horrible pain. But when you are numb you can put a face on for the public and for your family and you especially do it for your children, particularly when they are too young to understand what's happened.

In those days, it didn't usually "hit" me until it was time to go to sleep. People used to say to me, "oh, you're doing so well."

About six months into it, though, I had an emotional breakdown.

Honestly, it does not happen in those first couple of days except for brief periods when that numbness wears off.

By the way, it has been two days since Claire learned of Charlie's death, not one.

LOL. It's been hundreds of days after Charlie's death for me and I'm still not over it!:bawling:

I think the trouble is a lot of people have been waiting to see Claire's reaction. If they had shown some response and mourning first, and then moved onto Claire carrying with life on as usual that would have been fine. I don't count the scene where Hurley breaks the news because we still haven't heard Claire say a word about Charlie or what his loss means to her. Maybe that is still to come, but like Hurley's belated Libby mourning, the lack of continuity is frustrating. I don't think Claire's grief for Charlie is insignificant so it shouldn't be confined to off-screen.

I love Pacejunkie and I used to think it was just bitterness over Charlie being axed, and this might seem lame, but after watching the first two episodes of the new Jericho season I'm convinced that there can definelty be room to have great story and action with just a small scene of showing some emotion or grief.

Would it really be too much to ask to have had a 2 minute scene where say Claire is making coffee for the two of them but then suddenly breaks down in tears and Kate consoles her? It would added a lot and fit in a lot better than the two of them just sitting there laughing.

Amen to the bit about Jericho.

I do believe the Kate/Claire scene was written to show how far Kate had come from not wanting to pick up Aaron to allowing him to call her mommy.

BUT..on the other hand Claire being the way she was in this episode was a big black hole to me. I didn't need a big scene. I didn't even need dialogue. I would have been happy with a short clip of Claire sitting on the porch while holding Aaron gazing sadly into the distance for a few moments. The viewers would know perfectly well what she was thinking...not a big crying jag or anything extreme. Just a few crumbs would have done...

[

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was shocked that Claire wasn't doing any grieving.

Face it. The writers have written themselves into a box. Sure they know where the storyline will end. But the extra stuff they have written in that they divert us on they cant keep straight.

About the greatest hits list:

Doesn't that make you guys mad too? Claire's never going to get to read that now. I'm sure it's quite wet and unreadable by now.

The Losties certainly never seem to grieve too much - maybe for an epi or 2. I guess that's just the 'way of the island'.

When Des jumped in the water after Patchy was shooting at him, that was my first thougth - 'Charlie's Greatest Hits'!~!! Nooooo!!!

Clearly, her on camera moments are a bit off. We'd expect to see more greif, but it's possible she's repressing it, and will deal with it later. This is a plausible possibility. I wouldn't be surprised if Claire's story is brought to the fore this season especially with the fact that Aaron is with Kate in the future.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=89816

I've read all the posts in this thread. My brain is over loaded with all the diffrent points of view. I for one have always loved Charlie and Claire. I wanted Charlie and Claire to be together. But apparently that's not gonna work out. I think Claire's feelings will be dealt with. Part of me still fells like they're not through with Charlie. Who knows.

Sometimes I wonder why I get myself so invested in this show. And I honestly still can't figure out why. But I know this, I've been with it since the beginning and I'll be damned if I miss finding anything out!

Sometimes I wonder why I get myself so invested in this show. And I honestly still can't figure out why. But I know this, I've been with it since the beginning and I'll be damned if I miss finding anything out!

Hear, hear!!!

(Or, is it 'here, here!' I can never remember, at any rate - I'm on the same page you are!)

Also, I think it's easy to forget that Charlie and Claire haven't known each other as long as we've known them 'together.' Also, they just kissed for first time, in like, Greatest Hits or something near there. Before that, Charlie was more of a confidante and a helper (daddy-like figure) without any intimacy.

I truly hope, and think, she'll get her own episode soon and it will show just how Claire greives. As other have mentioned, she seems to have a tendency to repress things that are tough on her psyche.

A sobbing Claire would make her even more annoying than she already is. No thanks.
Her baby has more relevance to the show than she does. Even before this episode.
90% of her scenes already seemed forced and out of place. I'm glad I don't have to see her grieving all the time.

And it's not that I extremely dislike Claire. It's just that she's yet to convince me that she matters. Especially now that Charlie's gone.

I've read all the posts in this thread. My brain is over loaded with all the diffrent points of view. I for one have always loved Charlie and Claire. I wanted Charlie and Claire to be together. But apparently that's not gonna work out. I think Claire's feelings will be dealt with. Part of me still fells like they're not through with Charlie. Who knows.

You know it's funny, but there are some days where I really believe that. There were so many running themes and literary parallels surrounding Charlie's character and all the mystery about his odd appearance to Hurley that would indicate that his story is far from over. Then they air episodes like this that convince me the complete opposite is true. To see Eggtown, you would think they were completely through with Charlie.

Just to play devil's advocate, it's quite possible there have been more grieving scenes filmed but cut due to time or pacing. Also, we've seen Claire for 10 minutes on screen for 2 days of Lost time. Who says she hasn't been grieving? We don't always need to see it - we saw her initial reaction so it can be implied. We know they use the bathroom but it is implied it happens offscreen :)

When Des jumped in the water after Patchy was shooting at him, that was my first thougth - 'Charlie's Greatest Hits'!~!! Nooooo!!!

Omg me too!! I am a little aggravated at the fact that Claire didn't get the list...and that they haven't really shown any "grieving-for-charlie-time" by Claire....except for the season premiere...all 0.387520587307 seconds of it hahaha. Oh well...show must go on...

*sigh* I'll grieve for you Charlie! :)

I didn't notice at the time (it's been ages since he died, and nearly a month since we saw the resulting grief), but I suppose it's a good point. They all seem too happy. I'd have expected weeks of disturbance from his death. If Libby (Who?) deserves to recur in several flashbacks and have several mentions in subsequent episodes, Charlie deserves a spin-off and a movie.
100%
Just to play devil's advocate, it's quite possible there have been more grieving scenes filmed but cut due to time or pacing. Also, we've seen Claire for 10 minutes on screen for 2 days of Lost time. Who says she hasn't been grieving? We don't always need to see it - we saw her initial reaction so it can be implied. We know they use the bathroom but it is implied it happens offscreen :)
And how come when we see bathroom action it's always Hurley (or Sawyer with his shocking amount of pornography)?

What really ticked me off was this scene (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1379-476.html). Claire is the one who just lost her boyfriend a day or two before and yet here she is comforting KATE and asking KATE if SHE'S okay. And why is Kate upset? Because mean old Mr. Locke sabotaged her attempts to screw things over for someone yet again. I'm not meaning to bash Kate, but I think if anyone has a right to be upset and get a little bit of comforting from someone it's Claire.

I just want to point out that Hurley grieving by Libby's grave was largely done because of fan complaints that he had appeared to forget Libby even existed.

By what we saw in Eggtown, it looks as of the writers are done with Charlie and just want to move the story along.

We all need to show Darlton how emotions work. Quick, everyone start mourning Charlie! Cry like your life depends on it! Or at least look a bit sad, they're just learning how to encorporate the wonders of emotions not coming from Jack.

We all need to show Darlton how emotions work. Quick, everyone start mourning Charlie! Cry like your life depends on it!

Darlton should already know that Charlie's death was the biggest tearjerker of the show so far. Often the show is smart enough to echo the viewers thoughs and feelings in their episodes - hence lines like Ana's Lucia's "People don't like me" and "Who the hell is Nikki?" I think that the main reason fans expected mourning over his character is because we mourned and we want a reflection of our feelings.

Maybe Claire's dying inside!
covering up the pain with a smile...that's all. :laughing:

Seriously though, the show doesn't have time to deal with grieving for more than one episode. When someone close to me dies I am usually down in the dumps for like a week. In LOST time, that would be like, 7 episodes, which would take 7 weeks.

I do wish they held some kind of 5 minute service for him...since he WAS a beloved character. But again, I guess they didn't have time. :undecide:

Well, it IS a new season and all. I mean Charlie dying is SO last season and we just need to get a move on...

(this coming from someone who has cried like a baby all 4-5 times I have watched the S3 finale! :cry: )

Hear, hear!!!

(Or, is it 'here, here!' I can never remember, at any rate - I'm on the same page you are!)

Well Thank God. For a minute I thought I was alone on this boat out here in the middle of the big blue ocean! Wheeew! :biggrin: What a relief to know I'm not the only one!
100%
I had the craziest thought the other night. Wouldn't it be wild if the reason Claire doesn't seem upset is because she's seeing Charlie. I mean, Hurley saw Charlie in the FF. What would happen if Charlie was appearing to Claire , or maybe even smokey via Charlie, and that might be a reason why Kate has Aaron in the FF.

Then I had another thought that, if you can believe what Juliet says about CLaire being the only woman to give birth on the island, (which only works if Danielle lied about having Alex on the island), then maybe CLaire is being used as a baby making machine? That doesn't make sense does it?

Oh hell. "Tis just a thought. :ohwell:

My thoughts exactly. Claire used to be one of my favorite characters and her relationship with Charlie was also one of the first "ships" that I cheered for, but they ruined both of them. They were just bit of innocence in the show, now Claire is just completely oblivious and pretty uncaring. Maybe Locke drugged her or something.


We can only hope that Locke is sticking happy pills in the community dinner. Claire's, Hurley's, and everyone else's acting like Charlie didn't sacrifice himself for them is totally bogus.

Well, it IS a new season and all. I mean Charlie dying is SO last season and we just need to get a move on...

(this coming from someone who has cried like a baby all 4-5 times I have watched the S3 finale! :cry: )


Don't feel too bad momster. I used two damn rolls of toilet paper the night s3 finaled. It was pretty sad. :grin:

Don't feel too bad momster. I used two damn rolls of toilet paper the night s3 finaled. It was pretty sad. :grin:

I think I get so emotionally invested is b/c my own life is so void of major excitement/drama (especially compared to our Losties). Of course, I will be raising teenagers in a few years, so I'm sure it all will change :)

READ THIS,

She cryed her heart out, over Charlie's death in "the beginning of the End"
did you all just forget that,

We know that physical wounds heal mysteriously quick on the island, maybe the emotional wounds heal fast as well. Just a thought.

We know that physical wounds heal mysteriously quick on the island, maybe the emotional wounds heal fast as well. Just a thought.

Well they didn't for Charlie when Claire was gone. He didn't speak to anyone for almost six days, and then he cried with Rose. But I think the magical healing properties of season four are at work here. This just didn't happen in season one.

I was very moved by Charlie's sacrifice last season, but when I was watching the episode, I was just thrilled that Claire got a talking scene. Since all the focus was on Kate, I too forgot that she was supposed to be grieving. I agree that they could have included something to address this, since I thought "The Beginning of the End" focused almost entirely on Hurley and there was practically nothing for Claire.

I had the same reaction at first too. I was like "ooo Claire's getting lines! Yay!" cause I've always loved Claire. But yeah, the more I thought about it, the more I was like "whaaaa?"

I had the same reaction at first too. I was like "ooo Claire's getting lines! Yay!" cause I've always loved Claire. But yeah, the more I thought about it, the more I was like "whaaaa?"

:biggrin: I know, it was like who are you and what have you done with Claire?

Maybe the island does dull the grief. Charlies stressed when Claire was gone but the island knew she was still alive. Since the island knows Charlie's dead maybe, just maybe it is helping her cope.

Maybe the island does dull the grief. Charlies stressed when Claire was gone but the island knew she was still alive. Since the island knows Charlie's dead maybe, just maybe it is helping her cope.

That didn't help Shannon get over Boone. Again, season one versus everything else.

I think I get so emotionally invested is b/c my own life is so void of major excitement/drama (especially compared to our Losties). Of course, I will be raising teenagers in a few years, so I'm sure it all will change :)


I don't even have kids and I can tell you for sure that'll it change. Yea, my life ain't exciting. I go to work, come home, talk about Lost.

I knew there would be much ranting about this... hey, I noticed it too, and I never was a big Claire fan. But I am also more willing to cut her some slack. She was almost sleepwalking through the island for 3 episodes... she didn't look happy at all then. Now Kate was there, she was her guest. She was just friendly for her sake maybe. Also, moms with small kids live through and for their child. It can be a source of strength and comfort like nothing else.

Also, it WAS poor writing. Or at least they didn't focus on her character. It was like when the helicopter was leaving the island, and I was dying to see Desmond's face when he was departing, but all I got was Sayid... well he was stranded there too but it couldn't possibly compare what he felt and what Desmond felt in that moment. But it was Sayid's episode, his moment and that was it.

This was Kate's moment, her (apparent) lack of motherly instinct against Claire's.

Really, why should she be all that upset?

1.) They were a couple in the sense that Charlie wanted to have sex with her.
2.) They only knew each other for 3 months and most of that time they were in conflict. Charlie appears to harm the baby. Claire had amnesia. Charlie's drug use.
3.) We know Charlie died so Claire and Aaron could go home. (desmond's vision) But Claire doesn't know that. She thinks he died on a regular mission.
4.) She hasn't gotten the letter he wrote her OR found the DS ring.
5.) Hurley and Claire had a good crying scene when she heard.
6.) She went with Locke based on Charlie's gesture.

Maybe if she gets the letter OR finds the DS ring we will see another cry.
Until then I think she has grieved properly. Agreed?

I think she has grieved properly. Agreed?I agree only if the character of Claire is supposed to be a heartless dimwit. Otherwise disagree 100%.

When did Charlie ever say or act like he just wanted sex with Claire? I know his relationship with Claire wasn't perfect, but for all his faults Charlie courted Claire in a strictly platonic manner.

I think it'll be very sad if Claire only mourns after she realises that Charlie died for her...like the mere fact of Charlie being a human being and her friend/boyfriend wasn't enough for her.

I guess it is possible that Claire is just holding everything in so it doesnt overwhelm her. She has Aaron to think about and can't afford to loose it right now with all the turmoil

I guess it is possible that Claire is just holding everything in so it doesnt overwhelm her. She has Aaron to think about and can't afford to loose it right now with all the turmoil

I guess it's possible, but it felt unnatural. She was way too happy, too chipper. It was as if she were back home talking to aunt Lindsey, or when she and the boyfriend were happy that Aaron was in the picture.

Honestly, it was sort of disturbing. She could have done all her scenes, with exactly the same text / duration without being so excited and happy. It was as if she were on some mood altering drug.

I guess it's possible, but it felt unnatural. She was way too happy, too chipper. It was as if she were back home talking to aunt Lindsey, or when she and the boyfriend were happy that Aaron was in the picture.

Honestly, it was sort of disturbing. She could have done all her scenes, with exactly the same text / duration without being so excited and happy. It was as if she were on some mood altering drug.

Ohhhh like Dharma Xanax? If Juliet was around it would be possible.:biggrin: