I'm thinking that he's already feeling some sort of guilt over Claire's death (or whatever it was that happened on the island), and Aaron is too much of a reminder for him to bear. Any thoughts?

Think Jack doesn't want to see him because it reminds him of all the lies he has been having to tell regarding his time on the island. He has to lie that only 8 survived the crash, that the island was deserted and that Aaron is Kate's baby. The lies are destroying him and he wants to stay away from them.

Yeah, I think that at this point, he was already starting to crack from the guilt of whatever went down on the island.

It makes me wonder if he knows that Aaron is his nephew...

Poor Jack, if he would just get over himself and go see Aaron, he probably wouldn't end up such a wreck later on.

It makes me wonder if he knows that Aaron is his nephew...

Oh, GREAT point! I had actually forgotten this!

It makes me wonder if he knows that Aaron is his nephew...

Maybe he does know, and doesn't want to be reminded of his father's infidelity.

Yeah I definitely think *this* Jack (as in pre-finale Jack) is sweeping everything under the rug and trying to ignore all of the guilt he is feeling and all of the lies he is telling, Aaron is just another one of them.

I actually have a bit of a theory about that: right before they leave the island everyone assumes Claire to be dead so Kate takes Aaron thinking Claire would have wanted that, as they're flying off Claire shows up on the beach and everyone finds out she's not dead so Jack feels really guilty because they took her child from her and cant get him back to her. Just a theory.

Plausible posts that I can buy . . . .

It just seems to me that:

1- If Jack still loves Kate he wouldn't let Aaron stop their being together

2- IMO finding out that Kate adopted Aaron made up for any bad that she has ever done IMO. I found her so sexy upon realizing that it was Aaron -- A whole newfound love and respect for her since she kind of fell out of my fave five last season.

3- Knowing that it wasn't Sawyer's baby would make being with her cleaner and easier.

E D I T:

Yeah I definitely think *this* Jack (as in pre-finale Jack) is sweeping everything under the rug and trying to ignore all of the guilt he is feeling and all of the lies he is telling, Aaron is just another one of them.

I actually have a bit of a theory about that: right before they leave the island everyone assumes Claire to be dead so Kate takes Aaron thinking Claire would have wanted that, as they're flying off Claire shows up on the beach and everyone finds out she's not dead so Jack feels really guilty because they took her child from her and cant get him back to her. Just a theory.


This is a really fantastic take on it! You posted as I was writing.

TeeVeesBella: I absolutely agree with you that Jack (marvelously and subtly acted by Matthew, by the way) was indeed starting to exhibit signs of the stress of, well, perhaps guilt, since Jack is so guilt-prone. I am wondering what kind of deal-with-the-devil the O6 made to get off the island... If there was limited space on whatever means of transport they used to get off the island, then I might think Claire would have allowed Aaron to get a place and sacrificed her own return so Aaron could leave, and asked Kate to take care of him. Or Jack somehow finds out Claire is is half-sister. Or Ben's got something on them...either way, there's PLENTY for Jack to stress about.

A couple things I thought about on why Jack did not want to see aaron and most were already brought up .

1) Maybe he knows that Aaron is his nephew and it has something to do with Christian.
2) Something happened to Claire and the others survivors (like they really did not survive) and Aaaron reminds him too much of what happened.
3) The lie they are all keeping Aaron is a constant reminder of and he can't bare to see him.



I am unsure but I really wished him and Kate had that cup of coffee together. Why must Jack and Kate be so angsty all the time?

Maybe he does know, and doesn't want to be reminded of his father's infidelity.

I don't think Jack would care enough about that to let it interfere with getting to know his nephew -- especially since said nephew is being raised by the woman he loves (and is the son of a sister he bonded without even realizing the familial ties).

I really believe that the grief and guilt is eating Jack alive, and Aaron is a flesh-and-blood reminder of the emotional storm he's trying to escape.
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I am unsure but I really wished him and Kate had that cup of coffee together. Why must Jack and Kate be so angety all the time?

Hey, I was just thrilled that Kate's "son" wasn't Sawyer's kid. :biggrin:

1- If Jack still loves Kate he wouldn't let Aaron stop their being together

Yeah, cause nothing says happy, long lasting future together as lying to your prospective stepson about his very identity and the fate of his REAL mother. So little Aaron comes from school one day and asks: "Daddy, so if you have hazel eyes and mommy has green eyes how come I have blue eyes? Cause we just learned in science that it doesn't happen this way."

It's one thing to lie to and adoptive kid you've saved from a crackhouse and quite another to lie about sweet, lovable Claire, especially if you feel it's your fault that she got separated from her baby and you have to lie about it.


2- IMO finding out that Kate adopted Aaron made up for any bad that she has ever done IMO.


Are you serious? I can kill people I don't like as long as they're jerks and I adopt myself a community service baby? Sweet. My boss is so dead.

Plausible posts that I can buy . . . .

It just seems to me that:

1- If Jack still loves Kate he wouldn't let Aaron stop their being together

2- IMO finding out that Kate adopted Aaron made up for any bad that she has ever done IMO. I found her so sexy upon realizing that it was Aaron -- A whole newfound love and respect for her since she kind of fell out of my fave five last season.

3- Knowing that it wasn't Sawyer's baby would make being with her cleaner and easier.

Whatever the circumstances that Aaron came to be in Kate's care, it seems to me that Kate may have parlayed Aaron as an unseen "character witness" to help her get off the charges. I think Jack is uncomfortable with the lie that he is her bio son and the reminder of whatever bad happened to make Claire not be there.

I think its all a combination of things but I'm hoping that he finally found out the truth and knows that Aaron is his nephew.

Yeah, cause nothing says happy, long lasting future together as lying to your prospective stepson about his very identity and the fate of his REAL mother. So little Aaron comes from school one day and asks: "Daddy, so if you have hazel eyes and mommy has green eyes how come I have blue eyes? Cause we just learned in science that it doesn't happen this way."

It's one thing to lie to and adoptive kid you've saved from a crackhouse and quite another to lie about sweet, lovable Claire, especially if you feel it's your fault that she got separated from her baby and you have to lie about it.



Are you serious? I can kill people I don't like as long as they're jerks and I adopt myself a community service baby? Sweet. My boss is so dead.

Clauds I think I am yours posts stalker. I just feel the need to follow them around all the time and ITA them :lol:

Hey, I was just thrilled that Kate's "son" wasn't Sawyer's kid. :biggrin:

Well, presumably. I'm still not convinced... I think Jack didn't want to see Aaron because he knows Sawyer is the baby daddy. ;)

lets not jump to the conclusion that Claire will die. it may come to a point where Claire has to make a choice to let Aaron go to a better life, or keep the baby on the (dangerous) island. ...plus, nothing will make better drama than a mom separated from her baby. :)

Well, presumably. I'm still not convinced... I think Jack didn't want to see Aaron because he knows Sawyer is the baby daddy. ;)

Whatever gets ya through. ;)

But let's get real. TPTB played their hand in that respect: Kate, for whatever reason, is raising Aaron; she and Sawyer didn't conceive a child together. There's no way to spin that one in any other direction. It is what it is.

:cool:

It appeared to me that Jack can't deal with "the baby" and whatever circumstances led to Kate passing Aaron off as her son so they don't see each other except on the news when they're regurgitating their well rehearsed lies. Jack looked pretty much like he did with Hurley to me, like he's being slowly consumed by something so awful, something that scares him so bad, that for the first time in his life his instincts aren't guiding him, his natural inclination to grab the bull by the horns and lead the way is eluding him, his body language no longer exuding confidence, but instead an uncertain nervousness. He's truly LOST right now.

That's obviously a discussion for another thread, but let's just look at it keeping in mind that this is LOST and it's supposed to make us obsess about stuff.

A) Questions raised about a reveal that Kate is raising Claire's Aaron:

1. OMG, what happened to Claire? Is she dead?
2. Did Claire give the baby to Kate even though she knew she was a fugitive? Did they rescue Aaron at the last minute and there were no times for goodbyes, etc?
3. Are there people interested in keeping Aaron away from the Island and concealing his true identity?
4. What about the "raised by another prophecy"?
5. Does Jack know he's his nephew?
6. Why is he feeling guilty?

etc.

B) Questions raised by Kate having a random baby she named Aaron:

.................................................. ...

Erm... I got nothing.

Another thing no one has brought up (that I know of) -

In the flashfowards, HOW LONG have they been off the island? Or how long did it take them to get off? Because in the FF, Aaron is at least 3, maybe 4 years old.

Whatever gets ya through. ;)

But let's get real. TPTB played their hand in that respect: Kate, for whatever reason, is raising Aaron; she and Sawyer didn't conceive a child together. There's no way to spin that one in any other direction. It is what it is.

:cool:

I'm open to the possibility that my Skater sensibilities are making me a little biased, but I didn't really believe Kate when she told Sawyer she wasn't pregnant. She certainly seemed worried about it in her scene with Claire and Aaron. If she doesn't think she's pregnant, I don't know why she's still planning on leaving the island, especially considering that Miles just confirmed that she's still a wanted fugitive.

It appeared to me that Jack can't deal with "the baby" and whatever circumstances led to Kate passing Aaron off as her son so they don't see each other except on the news when they're regurgitating their well rehearsed lies. Jack looked pretty much like he did with Hurley to me, like he's being slowly consumed by something so awful, something that scares him so bad, that for the first time in his life his instincts aren't guiding him, his natural inclination to grab the bull by the horns and lead the way is eluding him, his body language no longer exuding confidence, but instead an uncertain nervousness. He's truly LOST right now.

ITA, Flyer. :frown:

What I found interesting is that Kate told Jack that she's heard him tell that story (about the 8 survivors) so often she thinks he believes it, yet she really seems to believe Aaron is her son.

I'm open to the possibility that my Skater sensibilities are making me a little biased, but I didn't really believe Kate when she told Sawyer she wasn't pregnant. She certainly seemed worried about it in her scene with Claire and Aaron. If she doesn't think she's pregnant, I don't know why she's still planning on leaving the island, especially considering that Miles just confirmed that she's still a wanted fugitive.

Well, clearly something happens between "now" on the island and whatever goes down to separate Aaron and Claire. I'm thinking that things are going to get so terribly dangerous on the island, that staying just doesn't seem like a viable option anymore.

Of course, that's worrisome, because I would hate to believe that everyone who stayed behind is dead.
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What I found interesting is that Kate told Jack that she's heard him tell that story (about the 8 survivors) so often she thinks he believes it, yet she really seems to believe Aaron is her son.

I think for all intents and purposes, Aaron IS her son now. She's basically taken him into her heart the way any adoptive parent would.

Another thing no one has brought up (that I know of) -

In the flashfowards, HOW LONG have they been off the island? Or how long did it take them to get off? Because in the FF, Aaron is at least 3, maybe 4 years old.

Someone else mentioned that the credits for this episode listed "2-year-old boy." But I'm not sure how accurate that is.

I'm open to the possibility that my Skater sensibilities are making me a little biased, but I didn't really believe Kate when she told Sawyer she wasn't pregnant. She certainly seemed worried about it in her scene with Claire and Aaron. If she doesn't think she's pregnant, I don't know why she's still planning on leaving the island, especially considering that Miles just confirmed that she's still a wanted fugitive.


Maybe Kate is there when Claire is dying and Claire begs Kate to save Aaron. So Kate takes him off the island. :confused:

And if the O6 are pretending Aaron is supposed to be Kate's son, who did they tell everyone who the father was? She could not have been pregnant before she went on that plane, at least not to the exent that she showed. And is there a further reason that Kate's lawyer wanted her to use her son to get her out of trouble? What could using her son do for her? Does he have a special gift that would persuade everyone to feel sorry for Kate or judge her differently? Maybe this special gift is why Jack is staying away.

That's obviously a discussion for another thread, but let's just look at it keeping in mind that this is LOST and it's supposed to make us obsess about stuff.

A) Questions raised about a reveal that Kate is raising Claire's Aaron:

1. OMG, what happened to Claire? Is she dead?
2. Did Claire give the baby to Kate even though she knew she was a fugitive? Did they rescue Aaron at the last minute and there were no times for goodbyes, etc?
3. Are there people interested in keeping Aaron away from the Island and concealing his true identity?
4. What about the "raised by another prophecy"?
5. Does Jack know he's his nephew?
6. Why is he feeling guilty?

etc.

B) Questions raised by Kate having a random baby she named Aaron:

.................................................. ...

Erm... I got nothing.


LMFAO :lol: Diet coke just went all over my key board Clauds. I am billing you :rotflmao:

What I found interesting is that Kate told Jack that she's heard him tell that story (about the 8 survivors) so often she thinks he believes it, yet she really seems to believe Aaron is her son.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think she is very aware that he is not hers and it's made her very protective. I think a lot of the reason she didn't want Aaron brought into the trial, or didn't want her mother meeting him, was because she was afraid someone would realize that he wasn't her son at all. They don't really look anything alike.

I think Jack is feeling guilty and not wanting to see Aaron because:

There was an accident, which Jack caused, and Claire dies. Before Claire dies, she asks Kate to take care of Aaron. Jack can't see Aaron because of said accident. Kate knows it's not Jacks fault, but Jack can never get over the guilt of taking away Aaron's real mother.

HAHA! I'm pretty proud of myself for that one. :)

Yes I can see that would be Kate's reasoning but I still don"t get why bringing the kid in would be so helpful to Kate's case

I still have trouble wrapping my head around Jack feeling perfectly cool having coffee with Kate but not being able to bear seeing Aaron. You'd think if he was remembering Claire every time he saw the kid, he'd have the same problems being around the woman who is raising Claire's son. And if he thinks rather that it's her child with Sawyer, wouldn't he be just as peeved with her as with the kid.

I can see Jack not being able to bear being reminded of all the folks they left behind, but that would make any contact with any of the other five painful.

The kid seemed about 2.5 to 3. He was still sleeping in a crib, and Kate called him "the baby."

Cardie

Yes I can see that would be Kate's reasoning but I still don"t get why bringing the kid in would be so helpful to Kate's case

I think it was more that her attorney wanted to prove that she was a loving, attentive and stable mother.

That's obviously a discussion for another thread, but let's just look at it keeping in mind that this is LOST and it's supposed to make us obsess about stuff.

A) Questions raised about a reveal that Kate is raising Claire's Aaron:

1. OMG, what happened to Claire? Is she dead?
2. Did Claire give the baby to Kate even though she knew she was a fugitive? Did they rescue Aaron at the last minute and there were no times for goodbyes, etc?
3. Are there people interested in keeping Aaron away from the Island and concealing his true identity?
4. What about the "raised by another prophecy"?
5. Does Jack know he's his nephew?
6. Why is he feeling guilty?

etc.

B) Questions raised by Kate having a random baby she named Aaron:

.................................................. ...

Erm... I got nothing.

I'll help you out:

1. Did Kate know she was pregnant when she left the island? Is that what motivated her to leave? If she knew before she left, or suspected even as of tonight's episode, why did she tell Sawyer she was sure she wasn't pregnant? Was she just "testing" him?

2. Why would Kate name her child Aaron? What might that imply about Claire and her Aaron's fate?

3. Will father and son ever be reunited? Will Kate go back to the island for Sawyer? Will Sawyer be able to find out that Kate has had his baby, a la Juliet finding out that her sister gave birth?

4. Is Jack unwilling to see Aaron because he knows that he is Sawyer's child and he can't stand to see Kate and Sawyer's love child?

5. Is it really even possibly that after having (presumably unprotected) sex at least twice on Super Sperm Island, that Kate did not get pregnant?

Just a couple of things to think about. I'm of the impression that this is a "red herring" of sorts -- I do think at this point that we are supposed to think this is Claire's Aaron, but I think we might get twisted back around in the other direction to find out it's not.

Aaron is 'special', and Kate was forced to take him and raise him as her own as part of the deal they made to get off the island.

I think its all a combination of things but I'm hoping that he finally found out the truth and knows that Aaron is his nephew.


I think this is probably the closest to the truth. Otherwise, I can't think of a reason Jack would be uncomfortable around Aaron.

I still have trouble wrapping my head around Jack feeling perfectly cool having coffee with Kate but not being able to bear seeing Aaron. You'd think if he was remembering Claire every time he saw the kid, he'd have the same problems being around the woman who is raising Claire's son. And if he thinks rather that it's her child with Sawyer, wouldn't he be just as peeved with her as with the kid.

I can see Jack not being able to bear being reminded of all the folks they left behind, but that would make any contact with any of the other five painful.

The kid seemed about 2.5 to 3. He was still sleeping in a crib, and Kate called him "the baby."

Cardie

As lame as it seems, Jack just can't seem to completely get over Kate. He "loves" her (blech...), but apparently that love isn't strong enough for Jack to accept the fact that Kate has a "son". If that is in fact *the* Aaron, then Jack's no doubt fighting some guilt there. Doesn't completely explain the scene, but I'll chaulk it up to awkward writing.

Aaron is 'special', and Kate was forced to take him and raise him as her own as part of the deal they made to get off the island.


Was Aaron the reason the plane crashed??? Maybe Ben knew about Aaron and somehow caused the plane to crash where it did so that he could have Aaron. Maybe Ben is responsible for the "fake" crash site.

Yeah, cause nothing says happy, long lasting future together as lying to your prospective stepson about his very identity and the fate of his REAL mother. So little Aaron comes from school one day and asks: "Daddy, so if you have hazel eyes and mommy has green eyes how come I have blue eyes? Cause we just learned in science that it doesn't happen this way."

It's one thing to lie to and adoptive kid you've saved from a crackhouse and quite another to lie about sweet, lovable Claire, especially if you feel it's your fault that she got separated from her baby and you have to lie about it.

Who says she's lying to him, now or in the future? Just because he called her mommy? Adopted moms are still moms. Plus, a two year old isn't old enough yet to be told or to comprehend that his real mom died. They generally can't even comprehend death. (Yes, he looked about two, maybe even a tad younger.) That doesn't mean that Kate intends to keep the truth from him in the future.

Are you serious? I can kill people I don't like as long as they're jerks and I adopt myself a community service baby? Sweet. My boss is so dead.There was more to Kate killing her dad than that she just didn't like him. None of it was brought up in the trial, though, very oddly.

This episode was spoiled like crazy and there was lots of speculation about Kate's intentions with Aaron, but now that I've seen that final scene between Jack and Kate it seems very apparent that Kate has no qualms or shame about being Aaron's mom. She seemed very understanding that Jack was too heartbroken over circumstances (of Claire's death?) to see Aaron, by telling him that they will be there for him whenever he's ready. Plus, Jack's problem seemed to be only that he couldn't bring himself to visit Aaron, not that Kate was raising Aaron. I think a lot of the spec that Kate used or stole Aaron to free herself or that she was demanding that Jack accept her as Aaron's birth mom was just way off. It's implied in this scene that Claire is "officially" dead.

I'll help you out:

1. Did Kate know she was pregnant when she left the island? Is that what motivated her to leave? If she knew before she left, or suspected even as of tonight's episode, why did she tell Sawyer she was sure she wasn't pregnant? Was she just "testing" him?

2. Why would Kate name her child Aaron? What might that imply about Claire and her Aaron's fate?

3. Will father and son ever be reunited? Will Kate go back to the island for Sawyer? Will Sawyer be able to find out that Kate has had his baby, a la Juliet finding out that her sister gave birth?

4. Is Jack unwilling to see Aaron because he knows that he is Sawyer's child and he can't stand to see Kate and Sawyer's love child?

5. Is it really even possibly that after having (presumably unprotected) sex at least twice on Super Sperm Island, that Kate did not get pregnant?

Just a couple of things to think about. I'm of the impression that this is a "red herring" of sorts -- I do think at this point that we are supposed to think this is Claire's Aaron, but I think we might get twisted back around in the other direction to find out it's not.

Erm, not to be rude, but that would make Lost even more like "The Bold and the Beautiful" and that would suck. Plus, Aaron not being raised by another is one of the founding mythologies of the show.

Anyways, as someone said in another thread, Kate made her choice tonight and it was neither Jack nor Sawyer - it was Aaron, who she now sees as her child.

I agree with people who think that Jack thinks he has someone caused the death of Claire and thus cannot look at her son. I mean, he did call the freighties, what if one of them offs her?

Erm, not to be rude, but that would make Lost even more like "The Bold and the Beautiful" and that would suck. Plus, Aaron not being raised by another is one of the founding mythologies of the show.

Anyways, as someone said in another thread, Kate made her choice tonight and it was neither Jack nor Sawyer - it was Aaron, who she now sees as her child.


Agreed. At this point, arguing that Aaron was SKate's baby and not Claire's son -- the Aaron we already know -- is really grasping at straws. If it were true, it would cheapen the show exponentially, as all it would be is a silly "gotcha" that had absolutely no purpose.

I'll help you out.

Much obliged, but I just happen to think the first set of questions is far more interesting and plot-advancing than whether Sawyer is reunited with his baby or not.

Just a feeling, but Kate, the music, the tone, the everything of that last scence was soooo sad...... like a "Claire (Aaron's mother) is dead" or "Sawyer (Aaron's father) is dead" type of sad.

Whether the mother is Claire or the father is Sawyer, neither one of them appears to have made it off the island. I tend to think it's b/c of some really bad thing that went down as a result of Jack's decision to make "the call."

Aaron being motherless/fatherless was Jack's fault and his guilt is what keeps him away from the child.

hi everyone.. i just was wondering why anyone had to die for aaron to have gone with kate? more people wanted off the island than got off obviously.. is it possible that claire wasnt going to be able to go, and asked her to take the baby? aaron was at least 20 years younger than anyone else on the island(except for alex and her boyfriend). is it fair to decide for him that he will grow old with no companionship?? that he will live out his last years by himself on the island when everyone dies? this might be an explaination too.. he is the only child ever born on the island after all..

hi everyone.. i just was wondering why anyone had to die for aaron to have gone with kate? more people wanted off the island than got off obviously.. is it possible that claire wasnt going to be able to go, and asked her to take the baby? aaron was at least 20 years younger than anyone else on the island(except for alex and her boyfriend). is it fair to decide for him that he will grow old with no companionship?? that he will live out his last years by himself on the island when everyone dies? this might be an explaination too.. he is the only child ever born on the island after all..

Interesting point. But I highly doubt that Claire would've remained behind if she didn't have to.

i also think this is claire's aaron for another reason.. as a parent, i would never name my kid the same name as my friends already born and named child.. not that it hasnt ever happened, but i feel i am not alone on this one.. i dont believe kate would do this either.. therefore it is not a child she birthed or named.

Erm, not to be rude, but that would make Lost even more like "The Bold and the Beautiful" and that would suck. Plus, Aaron not being raised by another is one of the founding mythologies of the show.

Anyways, as someone said in another thread, Kate made her choice tonight and it was neither Jack nor Sawyer - it was Aaron, who she now sees as her child.

I agree with people who think that Jack thinks he has someone caused the death of Claire and thus cannot look at her son. I mean, he did call the freighties, what if one of them offs her?


Dude give Bold and the Beautiful more credit. If they went with it being Sawyer's baby after this then LOST would be equal to or worse then PASSIONS.


I have a feeling this whole "Kate's baby is Sawyer's love child" is going to be as bad as season ones theory even after the writers squashed it a million times "the island is purgatory" theory.:rolleyes:

So ANYWAYS back to the topic at hand. I think Jack thinks Aaron is a reminder of their lies about the other survivors back on the island and ,leaving them behind.

Dude give Bold and the Beautiful more credit. If they went with it being Sawyer's baby after this then LOST would be equal to or worse then PASSIONS.

:rotflmao2: Amen to that!

Interesting point. But I highly doubt that Claire would've remained behind if she didn't have to.

sorry feeling like a chatterbox here.. i didnt know how to word it, so i left it out.. in movies we sometimes see refugees who cant get on the helicopter or whatever vehicle is used for escaping a situation.. the refugee mother screams for them to take her baby.. "Save my baby!!" i kinda had something like this pictured in my head..

sorry feeling like a chatterbox here.. i didnt know how to word it, so i left it out.. in movies we sometimes see refugees who cant get on the helicopter or whatever vehicle is used for escaping a situation.. the refugee mother screams for them to take her baby.. "Save my baby!!" i kinda had something like this pictured in my head..

Now THAT'S a theory I can get behind. ;)

Welcome to the Fuse, btw.

thank you.. been reading awhile, but was a bit intimidated to post.

I get the feeling that the Freighties or Boaties or whomever ends up getting the O6 off the island -- and whomever set up the lies and cover ups and settlement monies -- wanted those exact 6 people. They were chosen for a reason. Claire, even if she doesn't die, was never meant to get off the island. She must figure this out and force Kate to take Aaron and adopt him and raise him as her own. It's part of the cover up. Kate obviously wasn't pregnant when the crash happened, so part of her cover up story must be that she got pregnant and had the baby on-island. Which means they were on the island at least 9 months for that story to stick ... if not longer since baby Aaron is now a toddler.

thank you.. been reading awhile, but was a bit intimidated to post.

Well, glad you braved it. :cool:

I'm off to bed.

I don't see how somebody wouldn't give their seat up to Claire if it came down to that (seperating a mother from her child) doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not sure what Jacks problem is. I guess it could be as simple as saying that he feels guilty. I wonder if he found out that is his nephew. I don't understand why he would be uncomfortable seeing Aaron, reminding himself of his choice in calling the freighter, when seeing Kate is a non issue.

Very interesting episode. Left me with my mouth hanging.

Did anyone else think Kate looked spooky in the last scene. I don't know just something about how her eyes squinted.

Does he have a special gift that would persuade everyone to feel sorry for Kate or judge her differently?
Yes: its called extreme cuteness.

"Daddy, so if you have hazel eyes and mommy has green eyes how come I have blue eyes? Cause we just learned in science that it doesn't happen this way."


Actually, it does happen that way. Scientists used to think that's how it worked. Now it's known to be more complex. And actually, blue is recessive in the old school of thought - so in any case, Kate wouldn't have to explain that.

Dude give Bold and the Beautiful more credit. If they went with it being Sawyer's baby after this then LOST would be equal to or worse then PASSIONS

:roflmao::roflmao:

Lost is so Passions, and Aaron is sooooo Timmy. Ahhh, how I loved Passions when I was a uni student.

sorry feeling like a chatterbox here.. i didnt know how to word it, so i left it out.. in movies we sometimes see refugees who cant get on the helicopter or whatever vehicle is used for escaping a situation.. the refugee mother screams for them to take her baby.. "Save my baby!!" i kinda had something like this pictured in my head..

I really like that, it's nice because Claire may be safe!

But then maybe Aaron is like Walt and Jack is scurred of him :confused:

I think Jack finds out that Claire is his sister before she dies and he was somehow indirectly responsible for her death. That's why he can't bear to see the kid.

Do you think the story to the press is that Jack is the father? They asked him if he was in love with Kate. They wouldn't ask him that unless they thought he was, so it must've come out in their survival story that they were together. Afterall, Kate would have to say who the father was, unless James Ford was one of the 8 that didn't make it.

Aaron is 'special', and Kate was forced to take him and raise him as her own as part of the deal they made to get off the island.

I don't think the lies are part of a deal to get them off the island. I think the lies are lies told to protect the people still on the island. And maybe Claire asked Kate to take the baby to protect him.

I think that Claire is still alive but due to unknown circumstances at the time could not come with the 6 (was there a "list" that only allowed those 6 to leave?) and once back in civilization Jack learns that Claire is his sister (and Aaron his nephew), which shows why he becomes so obsessed with going back (to rescue his sister).

Maybe we will find out in a FF that Jack finds out really bad things may be happening to those who remained back on the island...

or they told them that they would leave 6 at a time and later found out that no more would be coming back...sorry just throwing out random ideas now. :biggrin:

Kate, for whatever reason, is raising Aaron; she and Sawyer didn't conceive a child together. There's no way to spin that one in any other direction. It is what it is.
It works just fine with what I figured out a while back: that Claire's pregnancy was fake, and Aaron was delivered from Kate's backpack.
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1. OMG, what happened to Claire? Is she dead?
Maybe. More likely the character of Claire who was created at an "accident scene" just disappeared, and the lady who was operating under that assumed identity has gone back to regular life or assumed yet another identity for another scam. As are many other "survivors", and almost all of the "dead".

4. What about the "raised by another prophecy"?
That was just something the fortune teller was duped into telling her.

Robert

Aaron was the first baby born on the island in 16 years. His dead grandpa is hanging out with Jacob. The seemingly credible psychic told Claire she had to get on the plane. Im starting to think Aarons role on the show is a lot more than just "the baby".

Am I the only one who saw some fear in Jack in regards to seeing Aaron? I definitely think that Aaron has Walt's kind of "special" powers and may have done some freaky things that would make Jack ambivalent about seeing him. I definitely think the "Raised By Another" prophecy is coming true and bad things are going to happen to everyone with Claire not raising the baby.

Aaron was born on the island, first child in how long??????? I know he was'nt conceived on the island but he is still pretty special besides the fact he survived the plane crash in mommy's tummy. I'm sure the news reports him as a "miracle chld".

I kinda agree though that this might get twisted on us agian and he may not be the Aaron we know at all. And if it really is Kates biological son he is a miracle child anyway because he was conceived on that island under those circumstances and lived to get off it. Its very possible that this child has all kinds of abilities from the island because he was conceived there. This may be why Kates mom wanted to make a deal or why Kate thought she wanted to make a deal. But I think she did the loving grandma thing and "got to sick to testify" so that Kates could have some happiness in her life not because she wanted to make a deal.

Is it possible that Clair is being kept on the island because she gave birth on the island? I know she did'nt get pregnant there but they were pretty Interested in her
because she was pregnant.

To me none of this makes sense with Jack. If he knows its his newphew I think he would want be around to help raise the child if in fact Clair is gone regardless of what his dad did. Jack is educated and too strong for that to brother him. And if it is Kates biological son he stills seems to strong of a person to let that come between him and Kate even if it was Swayers.


I think theres more here then what were being told at this point.

I must say i kinda feel like an idiot-- watched the epi and could have sworn she called her son Ethan. Glad I logged on when I couldn't sleep!!!!!

I must say i kinda feel like an idiot-- watched the epi and could have sworn she called her son Ethan. Glad I logged on when I couldn't sleep!!!!!

I thought she said Erick until I poped on here.

I thought she said Erick until I poped on here.


I am sooo glad I am not the only one!!!!

Well, presumably. I'm still not convinced... I think Jack didn't want to see Aaron because he knows Sawyer is the baby daddy. ;)
They knew you might think along those lines. Now check out all the toys in Aaron's room. There must be 41 different Australian animals shown there. Definitely Turniphead IMO.

Are you serious? I can kill people I don't like as long as they're jerks and I adopt myself a community service baby? Sweet. My boss is so dead.

Clauds, you're on fire tonight, but this is golden! :biggrin:

Well, presumably. I'm still not convinced... I think Jack didn't want to see Aaron because he knows Sawyer is the baby daddy. ;)

If Jack were that shallow, he would never have risked his life to get Kate AND Sawyer off of the Hydra Island. If he were that shallow, he never would have stuck up for Sawyer in TTLG when Sawyer went back to the beach and told Kate not to follow him. If Jack were that shallow, he never would have asked Kate to go with Sayid to Otherville and told her Sawyer wouldn't allow Locke to harm her.

If Jack were that shallow, Lost would air in the soap opera afternoon schedule.

It appeared to me that Jack can't deal with "the baby" and whatever circumstances led to Kate passing Aaron off as her son so they don't see each other except on the news when they're regurgitating their well rehearsed lies. Jack looked pretty much like he did with Hurley to me, like he's being slowly consumed by something so awful, something that scares him so bad, that for the first time in his life his instincts aren't guiding him, his natural inclination to grab the bull by the horns and lead the way is eluding him, his body language no longer exuding confidence, but instead an uncertain nervousness. He's truly LOST right now.

I completely agree with you here. If there's one thing we haven't seen from Jack in the past three seasons is fear. He's been worried, insecure, obssessive, desperate, sad, angry, pissed off, hopeful, over confident... but he's never been afraid. He's never been truly terrified of anything.

I am absolutely loving the way the writers are breaking Jack down so slowly, and I'm in awe of Matthew's performing skills more than ever. It's so subtle, yet so obvious.

I'm open to the possibility that my Skater sensibilities are making me a little biased, but I didn't really believe Kate when she told Sawyer she wasn't pregnant. She certainly seemed worried about it in her scene with Claire and Aaron. If she doesn't think she's pregnant, I don't know why she's still planning on leaving the island, especially considering that Miles just confirmed that she's still a wanted fugitive.

She had wine and coffee. Even Kate knows those things are not good for a baby.

I still have trouble wrapping my head around Jack feeling perfectly cool having coffee with Kate but not being able to bear seeing Aaron. You'd think if he was remembering Claire every time he saw the kid, he'd have the same problems being around the woman who is raising Claire's son. And if he thinks rather that it's her child with Sawyer, wouldn't he be just as peeved with her as with the kid.

I can see Jack not being able to bear being reminded of all the folks they left behind, but that would make any contact with any of the other five painful.

The kid seemed about 2.5 to 3. He was still sleeping in a crib, and Kate called him "the baby."

Cardie

Yes, I was too, I was going to answer this, but Rabid already identified the possible reason:

As lame as it seems, Jack just can't seem to completely get over Kate. He "loves" her (blech...), but apparently that love isn't strong enough for Jack to accept the fact that Kate has a "son". If that is in fact *the* Aaron, then Jack's no doubt fighting some guilt there. Doesn't completely explain the scene, but I'll chaulk it up to awkward writing.

Just a couple of things to think about. I'm of the impression that this is a "red herring" of sorts -- I do think at this point that we are supposed to think this is Claire's Aaron, but I think we might get twisted back around in the other direction to find out it's not.

The entire episode they are keeping the name of the baby a secret and misleading the audience to think that Kate is pregnant, only to reveal at the end she wasn't. That was the surprise of the episode. I really don't see how or why they would later say "gotcha again! it was Sawyer's baby, haha!"

What purpose would that serve? If they wanted to raise your questions about a Sawyer baby, they would have made him a Sawyer baby. But if they wanted to raise your questions about a Sawyer baby, why have him be a Claire's baby first? Doesn't make any sense. Wouldn't advance th eplot one bit, either, and they only have 44 more episodes to finish this tale.

sorry feeling like a chatterbox here.. i didnt know how to word it, so i left it out.. in movies we sometimes see refugees who cant get on the helicopter or whatever vehicle is used for escaping a situation.. the refugee mother screams for them to take her baby.. "Save my baby!!" i kinda had something like this pictured in my head..

I would love this, but I think Jack, Sayid or Hurley would gladly give up their seats for Claire. So, I don't think this is going to happen. It's a nice theory, though.

Welcome to the Fuse, I hope you continue posting and not just lurking :) .

Yes: its called extreme cuteness.

:biggrin: :biggrin: At least on TV it is!

Do you think the story to the press is that Jack is the father? They asked him if he was in love with Kate. They wouldn't ask him that unless they thought he was, so it must've come out in their survival story that they were together. Afterall, Kate would have to say who the father was, unless James Ford was one of the 8 that didn't make it.

I think they are going to say Kate was pregnant before she boarded 815, just not showing yet. Some women don't show until their 5th month or so. So, if they said she was 4 months pregnant when she boarded the flight, and we know they have now spent about 100 days on the island, that would make her 7 months pregnant by the time the Freighties came. They could easily say Aaron was premature and Dr. Jack handled the birth.

There's no reason why Kate would be obligated to say who the father of the baby is. Unless someone claims paternity and starts a legal proceeding for a DNA test, she can doesn't have to say a thing about the father.

Am I the only one who saw some fear in Jack in regards to seeing Aaron? I definitely think that Aaron has Walt's kind of "special" powers and may have done some freaky things that would make Jack ambivalent about seeing him. I definitely think the "Raised By Another" prophecy is coming true and bad things are going to happen to everyone with Claire not raising the baby.

I don't think Jack is afraid of Aaron, but I do agree that because he's being "Raised by Another" we are going to start seeing some of the consequences of that. And I agree he'll end up being "special", much more so than Walt.

I must say i kinda feel like an idiot-- watched the epi and could have sworn she called her son Ethan. Glad I logged on when I couldn't sleep!!!!!

Glad you logged on too! What a horrible thought! :biggrin:

I don't think Jack would care enough about that to let it interfere with getting to know his nephew -- especially since said nephew is being raised by the woman he loves (and is the son of a sister he bonded without even realizing the familial ties).

I really believe that the grief and guilt is eating Jack alive, and Aaron is a flesh-and-blood reminder of the emotional storm he's trying to escape.
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It appeared to me that Jack can't deal with "the baby" and whatever circumstances led to Kate passing Aaron off as her son so they don't see each other except on the news when they're regurgitating their well rehearsed lies. Jack looked pretty much like he did with Hurley to me, like he's being slowly consumed by something so awful, something that scares him so bad, that for the first time in his life his instincts aren't guiding him, his natural inclination to grab the bull by the horns and lead the way is eluding him, his body language no longer exuding confidence, but instead an uncertain nervousness. He's truly LOST right now.

very well said teeves and flyer.

i think the best explanation for jack avoiding the baby is that claire is dead and jack just can't bear to look at aaron. i think it's also pretty likely that he knows about their familial connection by this point. kate seems to understand his feelings and doesn't seem to be holding it against him, but she's also seems to feel he's being immature and is disappointed in him.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think she is very aware that he is not hers and it's made her very protective. I think a lot of the reason she didn't want Aaron brought into the trial, or didn't want her mother meeting him, was because she was afraid someone would realize that he wasn't her son at all. They don't really look anything alike.

yeah, i was wondering why she wouldn't let her mom see the baby. it made sense later than we saw he wasn't really her grandson. and although kate seems to react angrily to her mother's request, her words tell me she wasn't really angry. she was probably just upset. that "we're finished here" line was the same dismissive line jack used when kate came to him and begged him to save sawyer, and i don't think he was actually angry with her then either.

sorry feeling like a chatterbox here.. i didnt know how to word it, so i left it out.. in movies we sometimes see refugees who cant get on the helicopter or whatever vehicle is used for escaping a situation.. the refugee mother screams for them to take her baby.. "Save my baby!!" i kinda had something like this pictured in my head..

you described this perfectly! i had the same mental image pass through my head. it's completely likely that claire would ask kate to take aaron if for some reason kate was able to leave the island and claire was not. i don't, however, think that's the case, because then the interaction between kate and jack over the baby doesn't make as much sense.

sadly, i think the obvious message here is that claire is dead in the future, and i'm wondering if what kills her is another pregnancy. her chances of being pregnant seem pretty high given that she seemed to be living with charlie just before he died, and juliet injected her belly just a few weeks ago. the last person we saw juliet inject in the belly got pregnant, even though she was apparently infertile and had no obvious sperm donor.

a couple other things i find interesting about kate raising aaron:

1) Kate delivered Aaron. She was the first person on earth to hold him.
2) The psychic put Claire on flight 815 so she could bring Aaron to a nice couple in Los Angeles. Did he envision Aaron's eventual raising by Jack and Kate?
3) In the "Missing Pieces", Christian told Jack that if he ever had a kid he hoped Jack would treat better him than Christian treated Jack. I find that sad, since we see that Jack isn't (yet) capable of being the good father-figure for Aaron that he definitely should be with Claire out of the picture. Failing as a father-figure is yet another way FF Jack follows Christian's poor example.

If Claire is alive on the Island, and Jack knows it and feels directly responsible in some way for Claire becoming separated from Aaron during the rescue, then his guilt would be tremendous every time he looked at Aaron. The more time goes on, the more guilty Jack feels, and the harder it becomes for him to be around Aaron.

Jack's a fixer, but he can't fix this one. So he tries to ignore it. But we all know that it gets to him in the end.

When Lost started back in 2004, I never thought in a million years that I would be rooting for any of the Losties to get BACK on the Island. But that's exactly what I'm hoping for now. If Claire's alive on the Island and separated from Aaron ... how awful.

One would suppose Jack would be happy to see little Aaron so whats up with him?

I think Kate could have very well lied to Sawyer when she said she wasn't pregnant. I think its Sawyer's baby & Jack is bothered by ir so that may be the reason for his hesitation to visit. And just why Kate named the baby Aaron is a whole other explanation that we are yet to learn of.

Well, I didn't hear Aaron, I heard Eric which I know is wrong if we can believe the subtitles. So, I assumed it was actually Jack's baby. I was a little surprised by the blond hair though.

Aside from that, I think Jack doesn't want to be a father figure to this child, whether it is his or not. He didn't have a great example in his own father and he knows his own head is messed up and he is prone to addiction so he just doesn't want to mess up Kate's child.

I think, unfortunately, something happened to Claire leading to Kate adopting Aaron and this event has caused much grief and guilt for Jack. Or...for some reason Claire might have been left behind and Kate took the baby for whatever altruistic reason she may have and the mere thought of Aaron reminds Jack that Claire and others were left behind.

I think something happend to Claire too, but there is no way Kate adopted Aaron. Not with her wanted for murder. No court in the world would allow that. She has him and I have a feeling besides the Losties no one knows that isn't Kates baby.

That's true Laurie. I didn't mean "adopted" in a legal sense. You are right. No court would give a person wanted for murder custody of a child. I meant she took custody of him by whatever means she used. I got the impression that her mother thinks that Aaron is Kate's biological child.

Remember, Claire is Jack's half sister, so he has a more serious tie to Aaron than just being on the same island as him, he's Aaron's uncle.

Claire, and to an extent Aaron, is a constant reminder to Jack of his father.

thats a good theory.

Whatever circumstance that leads Aaron to be in Kate's custody is gonna be bad, very bad. JAck makes a point about saying how he didn't mean ANYTHING he said on the stand. Kate is going to be shown, once again, doing what it takes to cover her own arse..even if it leads to her whacking Claire herself.

Do you think at this point Jack knows that Claire is his half sis? And maybe that reminds him what a dirt bag his dad is? So that's why he doesnt want to see Aaron? Or did something shady happen and that's why Kate has him? WOW, was not expecting that though....

I'm pretty sure Jack was referring to the fact that he said he wasn't in love with Kate anymore on the stand when he later said he didn't mean what he said.

And it will be interesting to find out if he ever finds out she was his half sister. Still I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to see Aaron.

I don't think Jack knows he is related to Aaron. But I do remember that when they told the back story of his relationship with his wife, Sarah, they delved into the fact that she wanted children and he didn't. I think he doesn't want to see Aaron because of the circumstances in which Kate became his "adopted" mother. So sad.

At first I heard Eric too, then rewinding tape several times & nose pressed to screen to catch Kate's lip positions :biggrin: to catch the C at the end of the name. But I read here that CCing indicated she said Aaron.

That said its still a puzzle to me that Jack is hesitating to visit his nephew if it is indeed Claire's baby. I'm thinking that perhaps somewhere along the line Claire & Aaron do not get off the island. (god forbid something bad will happen to both of them cuz I certainly would be upset.) But if that unfortunate happening should occur maybe Kate is responsible in some way then out of guilt she names her baby Aaron as a namesake for Claire's Aaron. ?

I know... its a stretch. <sigh> We could rack our brains forever and a day over this show. :ohwell:

So far we haven't been made aware that Jack knows about his relationship to Claire and Aaron. Claire's mom and dad are both dead. The only person left that even knows Claire/Jack's dad's name is her aunt and she didn't seem to want anything to do with him. The only thing I can think of is that during the publicity of the Oceanic 6 rescue, the aunt heard Jack Shepherd's name and realized the connection and came out of the closet. But I don't know how likely this is. Claire didn't even know her dad's name.

So far we haven't been made aware that Jack knows about his relationship to Claire and Aaron. Claire's mom and dad are both dead. The only person left that even knows Claire/Jack's dad's name is her aunt and she didn't seem to want anything to do with him. The only thing I can think of is that during the publicity of the Oceanic 6 rescue, the aunt heard Jack Shepherd's name and realized the connection and came out of the closet. But I don't know how likely this is. Claire didn't even know her dad's name.
Claire's mom isn't dead, she is in a coma. She could very well have woken up while the 815ers have been missing. And I am sure as soon as someone says 'Jack Shepherd', the connection is going to be made to Claire pretty quickly.

I don't think that works that Aaron is really Kate's and she named him after Claire's Aaron. The child that Kate hugs looks ... I would guess over 2 years old. On top of that, Jack is really cleaned up. I would assume that Kate's FF is the "earliest" one that we have seen so far (even before Hurley's, which is obviously before Jack's. We don't have reference for where Sayid's fits in). This trial would also have been held right after the O6 got back. There is no way Kate could have gone through 9 months of pregnancy and then at least a couple years of the child's life before we see her hugging him at the end of the episode. There is no question in my mind that the Aaron we saw is Claire's Aaron.

As for why Jack doesn't want to see him, I think it could either do with the family connection that they share or that Aaron reminds him of something bad that happened on the island.

I'm assuming that Kate has to convince people that she was pregnant when she got on Flight 815 in order to claim Aaron as her own. I'm really wondering how that is all going to turn out, since she was a hero and saved everyone but has to convince them she was pregnant at the same time :confused:

One would suppose Jack would be happy to see little Aaron so whats up with him?

I think Aaron might have some crazy psychic powers and Jack is afraid of him / feels uneasy in his presence.

If everything was normal with Aaron, Kate would not be so afraid to show him to her mother or the public.

I think Jack lost Juliet due to Aaron's survival. I have no idea how, but that's my guess.

And somehow...Christian is involved.

I think Jack is feeling guilty about the deal the Oceanic 6 have cut to get back to the real world. I believe Ben is behind the whole thing. He sent Aaron home as Kate's baby, knowing it would gain her sympathy with a jury. He concocted the story Jack tells for the same reason. He sent Jack home knowing he would make a good, camera-friendly, credible celebrity to help sell the story of the O6. He sent Hurley back to reclaim his fortune, which is now being diverted into Sayid's missions to take out Ben's enemies (likely Mr. Widmore and the other funders formerly behind DHARMA.) It's even possible that Jacob has been keeping Kate's mom alive.

Each person who goes back is part of Ben's master chess game to protect the island (and himself.) The O6 can't go back, and the remaining Losties (and maybe the Boaties, too) are being held by Ben as insurance that his plans are "executed."

My bet is that, in the end, it's Penny who saves the day by getting the O6 back to the island to rescue their friends from Ben.

I think Jack lost Juliet due to Aaron's survival. I have no idea how, but that's my guess.

And somehow...Christian is involved.

Christian is dead

If Claire didn't make it off the island...does that mean that Charlie sacrificed himself due to a false vision of Desmond? Desmond told him that flooding the control room of the Looking Glass would result in Claire and Aaron getting into a Helocopter...presumable for rescue...

Perhaps Jack finds out that he is related to Claire while he is on the island, and so he knows Aaron is his nephew; if Claire is dead, then he might find it then too upsetting to see him as it would remind him of Claire's death and how it was that Kate ended up with him, I don't know. It is confusing, I think that perhaps we are not meant to know right now.

Ben must know that Claire and Jack are siblings...my guess is that he lets it out of the bag to Jack at some point. Jack is wrecked with guilt over whatever happened, the events resulting in Claire's death on the island. I believe Kate's child is THE Aaron, not just a baby Kate had that she named after Aaron. The big question is, if Des saw Claire and Aaron getting on the heli in his flash, then what happened???????

C'mon everybody! Only one thing makes Jack that nervous and jittery.

Failure. Failure to save somebody.

Aaron's presence in Kate's life symbolizes some giant failure of Jack's. Something he failed to do -- save Claire's life -- get Claire off the island. Aaron is a reminder that he failed in something big.

As for how Kate comes to have Aaron ...

I believe Ben is behind the whole thing. He sent Aaron home as Kate's baby, knowing it would gain her sympathy with a jury.

I agree with this theory.

If Claire didn't make it off the island...does that mean that Charlie sacrificed himself due to a false vision of Desmond? Desmond told him that flooding the control room of the Looking Glass would result in Claire and Aaron getting into a Helocopter...presumable for rescue...

Des isn't always the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to interpreting his flashes. Remember the Penny/Naomi confusion? I suspect he saw a woman holding Aaron on a helo (I've always found it suspicious that we never saw this flash) and assumed it was Claire.

Des isn't always the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to interpreting his flashes. Remember the Penny/Naomi confusion? I suspect he saw a woman holding Aaron on a helo (I've always found it suspicious that we never saw this flash) and assumed it was Claire.


true thing... nice point.

Des isn't always the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to interpreting his flashes. Remember the Penny/Naomi confusion? I suspect he saw a woman holding Aaron on a helo (I've always found it suspicious that we never saw this flash) and assumed it was Claire.

Another good theory, wannabef! Boy, you're full of them this morning!

I have a sneaky feeling that in order to get off the island Jack somehow ended up killing Claire. It would explain why he was so concerned with Hurley tellling the world what happened on the island, and perhaps why Hurley was so sorry for going with Locke, maybe him going with Locke ends up putting Jack in a situation where he accidentally kills Claire...

Seeing the face of Aaron would be too painful for Jack after something like that.

If Claire didn't make it off the island...does that mean that Charlie sacrificed himself due to a false vision of Desmond? Desmond told him that flooding the control room of the Looking Glass would result in Claire and Aaron getting into a Helocopter...presumable for rescue...

Claire may have gotten into the helicopter--but not gotten out.

I'm envisioning a scenario in which Kate and Claire (with Aaron) board the helicopter and it takes off. Along the way, something happens, maybe turbulence. Claire has an unfortunate accident--she falls out of the helicopter to her death, leaving Kate with Aaron. When the helicopter lands, she tells everybody that Aaron is her own son.

Something like that.

I'm thinking that he's already feeling some sort of guilt over Claire's death (or whatever it was that happened on the island), and Aaron is too much of a reminder for him to bear. Any thoughts?

That's exactly what I thought. He doesn't want to see Aaron because it reminds him of his (dead) halfsister.

I got the impression that her mother thinks that Aaron is Kate's biological child.Absolutely. I don't think she would have been so emotional about seeing some other child, she wants to see her grandson.

Well, I didn't hear Aaron, I heard Eric which I know is wrong if we can believe the subtitles. Thank goodness, I thought I was the only one that heard 'Eric'. Only the 'scary music' made me think about it further and wonder if maybe she had said 'Aaron'. (My internet connection was down last night, so I couldn't follow any of the threads here at the 'Lage.)

If he is Claire's Aaron, then Jack probably either doesn't approve of the way that Kate acquired him or he can't deal with such a direct reminder of the island.

The whole thing has me totally confused.

I have a couple of thoughts, but none of them really add up.

First, Claire has to raise Aaron. That much we know. So it makes sense to me that the bad buys goal would be to seperate Claire and Aaron.

Kate agrees to raise Aaron to get off the island. Jack agrees to keep the secert. Which is where his guilt comes in. Kate probably thinks she can keep Aaron safe.

Now the part that totally blows my theory apart. A company with that much money could have kept Aaron getting off the island a complete secert and had one of their own people raise him. No need to invlove Kate to that level.

Unless when they are resued the press sees Aaron and as a quick cover up, the bad guys announce he is Kates. Since she is the only woman to be saved.

Yea I've got nothing also....lol

Christian is dead

So is Charlie...

That's exactly what I thought. He doesn't want to see Aaron because it reminds him of his (dead) halfsister.

If this is the case, then IMO, it would make Jack the most unlikable weakling in the history of television. If he feels guilty for Claire's death (or even if she's only left behind on the Island) and denies his nephew, merely because of his own feelings of guilt/inadequacy? How lame, and not very "heroish" of him. :rolleyes:

But honestly, what could be any other reason? There's obviously nothing keeping him and Kate apart, nothing keeping them from seeing each other, no grand conspiracy there, since she invited him over to visit with the baby. He just started looking around uncomfortably, making some lame excuse...so good for Kate for standing firm! I like the she was finally shown to have moved past her incessant need for Jack's approval. However she took possession of Aaron's well-being, it's clear that she's putting him first and foremost...that's some great character development for her.

I really believe that the grief and guilt is eating Jack alive, and Aaron is a flesh-and-blood reminder of the emotional storm he's trying to escape.
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Hey, I was just thrilled that Kate's "son" wasn't Sawyer's kid. :biggrin:

I agree on both points. I should follow up to say that there is something more to the way that Kate ended up with Aaron that is driving Jack's guilt beyond Aaron simply being his nephew.

first post on the forum, but have been reading fuselage for a long time. personally, i dont think the answer to this question is very difficult.

1) jack makes a really bad decision about something on the island that gets claire killed. kate knows about what jack did and picks up aaron and takes it back with her to civilization.

2) claire is dead on the island, but a lot of other castaways are still on teh island alive.

3) kate wants to be with jack after they back, but wont unless jack accepts the decision he made that killed claire, and shows that he can move on.

4) jack obviously cannot do that and feels really guilty about what he did to claire, and im assuming here that he finds out she is his half sister before she dies, which leads to him feeling more guilty.

5) therefore jack does not want to see aaron, but in not seeing aaron he feels more guilty about what he did to claire and leaving everyone else on teh island.

6) hence --> season 3 finale jack

other things i picked up: the "he" kate refers to in season 3 finale is in fact aaron, which i never thought of ever that the "he" might not be a lover of kates. also, i really do not think that jack can ever have a relationship with a woman or a successful marriage ever. jack is married to the hospital and fixing people, and for some reason he cant get past it.

I still have trouble wrapping my head around Jack feeling perfectly cool having coffee with Kate but not being able to bear seeing Aaron.


I don't think Jack was perfectly cool with having coffee or anything else with her. I think he was politely blowing her off because just like with Hurley, he can't stand to be around any of them for very long because it does make the guilt and the lies that much more difficult for him.

Yeah, I don't think shame and inadequacy are such bad things to have when you've done something (even involuntarily or because there was no other choice) that caused people pain. You lack those if you're a psycho or entirely self-absorbed, in other words, if you're Kate.

I think Kate could have very well lied to Sawyer when she said she wasn't pregnant. I think its Sawyer's baby & Jack is bothered by ir so that may be the reason for his hesitation to visit. And just why Kate named the baby Aaron is a whole other explanation that we are yet to learn of.

It boggles my mind that there are still a few people determined, against all evidence to the contrary, to believe that the baby was Kate and Sawyer's. I know this is LOST, but come on. The big revelation here was that Kate is raising Claire's child. There's no Sawyer/Kate baby. Period.

:rolleyes:


first post on the forum, but have been reading fuselage for a long time. personally, i dont think the answer to this question is very difficult.

1) jack makes a really bad decision about something on the island that gets claire killed. kate knows about what jack did and picks up aaron and takes it back with her to civilization.

2) claire is dead on the island, but a lot of other castaways are still on teh island alive.

3) kate wants to be with jack after they back, but wont unless jack accepts the decision he made that killed claire, and shows that he can move on.

4) jack obviously cannot do that and feels really guilty about what he did to claire, and im assuming here that he finds out she is his half sister before she dies, which leads to him feeling more guilty.

5) therefore jack does not want to see aaron, but in not seeing aaron he feels more guilty about what he did to claire and leaving everyone else on teh island.

6) hence --> season 3 finale jack

other things i picked up: the "he" kate refers to in season 3 finale is in fact aaron, which i never thought of ever that the "he" might not be a lover of kates. also, i really do not think that jack can ever have a relationship with a woman or a successful marriage ever. jack is married to the hospital and fixing people, and for some reason he cant get past it.

Welcome to the Fuse! Great observations. I tend to agree, although, I think Jack probably did everything within his power to save Claire and the other Losties, but simply wasn't able to -- and now, having the god-complex that he does, he just can't get past it.

The way Jack acted about seeing Aaron wasn't out of guilt. Cause we all know that if Jack just felt guilty about Aaron/the people still on the island, then Jack by his very nature would at least try to help with Aaron (esp. if he knows that he is his nephew). I think Jack reacted the way he did for another reason. What if Aaron had done something to Claire? The fortune teller spoke of danger around the baby.

Now is where I go off the deepend. What if Aaron is or is inhabitated by Jacob?

Hear me out...

Kate clearly at the end of season 3, no matter how guilty she may have felt, wasnt ready to go back to the island. We kinda can figure the reason for that is Aaron AND the fact that she got 10 years probation (which they took the time to explain to us), and that if she left the state, she would go to jail. So what could drive her to change her mind? If Aaron for some reason had to go back to the island to be "exorcised" of Jacob, that could be motivation enough. I also feel like that could somehow explain a connection with Christian (being Aaron's grandpa) being in Jacob's cabin.

I'd also like to mention that the fact that the world at large is buying into Kate being Aaron's mother, proves the time-shift elements off the island are real. Because Kate was clearly not 9 months pregnant when she got on the plane, and if they were only on the island 100 days before the freighter, (lets say even its another 100 days before they get off) that isn't enough time for her to have a baby. Unless the world at large believes that several months/years have passed before rescue.
100%
The way Jack acted about seeing Aaron wasn't out of guilt. Cause we all know that if Jack just felt guilty about Aaron/the people still on the island, then Jack by his very nature would at least try to help with Aaron (esp. if he knows that he is his nephew). I think Jack reacted the way he did for another reason. What if Aaron had done something to Claire? The fortune teller spoke of danger around the baby.

Now is where I go off the deepend. What if Aaron is or is inhabitated by Jacob?

Hear me out...

Kate clearly at the end of season 3, no matter how guilty she may have felt, wasnt ready to go back to the island. We kinda can figure the reason for that is Aaron AND the fact that she got 10 years probation (which they took the time to explain to us), and that if she left the state, she would go to jail. So what could drive her to change her mind? If Aaron for some reason had to go back to the island to be "exorcised" of Jacob, that could be motivation enough. I also feel like that could somehow explain a connection with Christian (being Aaron's grandpa) being in Jacob's cabin.

I'd also like to mention that the fact that the world at large is buying into Kate being Aaron's mother, proves the time-shift elements off the island are real. Because Kate was clearly not 9 months pregnant when she got on the plane, and if they were only on the island 100 days before the freighter, (lets say even its another 100 days before they get off) that isn't enough time for her to have a baby. Unless the world at large believes that several months/years have passed before rescue.
100%
The way Jack acted about seeing Aaron wasn't out of guilt. Cause we all know that if Jack just felt guilty about Aaron/the people still on the island, then Jack by his very nature would at least try to help with Aaron (esp. if he knows that he is his nephew). I think Jack reacted the way he did for another reason. What if Aaron had done something to Claire? The fortune teller spoke of danger around the baby.

Now is where I go off the deepend. What if Aaron is or is inhabitated by Jacob?

Hear me out...

Kate clearly at the end of season 3, no matter how guilty she may have felt, wasnt ready to go back to the island. We kinda can figure the reason for that is Aaron AND the fact that she got 10 years probation (which they took the time to explain to us), and that if she left the state, she would go to jail. So what could drive her to change her mind? If Aaron for some reason had to go back to the island to be "exorcised" of Jacob, that could be motivation enough. I also feel like that could somehow explain a connection with Christian (being Aaron's grandpa) being in Jacob's cabin.

I'd also like to mention that the fact that the world at large is buying into Kate being Aaron's mother, proves the time-shift elements off the island are real. Because Kate was clearly not 9 months pregnant when she got on the plane, and if they were only on the island 100 days before the freighter, (lets say even its another 100 days before they get off) that isn't enough time for her to have a baby. Unless the world at large believes that several months/years have passed before rescue.

Kate's reaction to her mom wanting to see Aaron may have been a clue (or may not, of course). Her reaction did not seem quite in character with the facts as presented. Yes, she was upset with her mom, but she generally wanted her acceptance and forgiveness, at least pre-island. Her adamance that mom not be anywhere near Aaron seemed related to something "extra".

Since the entire kate half of the storyline for this episode revolved around the mystery of Aaron, my main guess is that Jack's reluctance to see Aaron is the same as, or at least related to, Kate's extreme desire to keep her mom away from him.

Failing that, my secondary guess is that Jack directly killed Claire. Nothing else mentioned seems like enough to keep this character away from Kate.

jack might think its sawyers kid because he might not kno if its aaron

Think Jack doesn't want to see him because it reminds him of all the lies he has been having to tell regarding his time on the island. He has to lie that only 8 survived the crash, that the island was deserted and that Aaron is Kate's baby. The lies are destroying him and he wants to stay away from them.

This is exactly what I had thought last night. It seems to be the most reasonable thought as to why he wouldn't want to see him since he should know that he's not really Kate's baby. Unless, of course, he really is Kate's baby, though I just don't see that as being possible given everything we know.
100%
Was Aaron the reason the plane crashed??? Maybe Ben knew about Aaron and somehow caused the plane to crash where it did so that he could have Aaron. Maybe Ben is responsible for the "fake" crash site.

LOL Wow, that sounded "so season one" :biggrin: Going back to theories on what single thing of millions of possibilities caused the crash...

I think it's because it will eventually be revealed that Aaron is his nephew, and he is therefore a reminder to Jack of his dad's affair. I am very much looking forward to seeing how the Claire/Jack sister and brother storyline will unfold.

Originally Posted by Claudia815
Are you serious? I can kill people I don't like as long as they're jerks and I adopt myself a community service baby? Sweet. My boss is so dead.
ROTFL! Best line of the week!
:) .

I don't think Jack is afraid of Aaron, but I do agree that because he's being "Raised by Another" we are going to start seeing some of the consequences of that. And I agree he'll end up being "special", much more so than Walt.

Oh yeah!
I'd forgotten about the "Raised by Another" angle.
Will Aaron turn into a little Damien?

This is certainly the biggest question that has been raised so far this season. We're definitely seeing that that this show is not going to end in a conventionally happy way.

Desmond told him that flooding the control room of the Looking Glass would result in Claire and Aaron getting into a Helocopter...presumable for rescue...
But what happens after that?

This episode shows that getting in a helicopter en route to a Freighter (like Sayid and Desmond) doesn't necessarily get you there.

>>>>>>>Kate's reaction to her mom wanting to see Aaron may have been a clue (or may not, of course). Her reaction did not seem quite in character with the facts as presented. Yes, she was upset with her mom, but she generally wanted her acceptance and forgiveness, at least pre-island. Her adamance that mom not be anywhere near Aaron seemed related to something "extra". <<<<

something occurred to me after reading this and several other threads:

What if Aaron is so special the people who are looking for the island (so far known as Freighties) want him
And in turn Ben wants him....and is using Diane to try and get Aaron....see I think he may have talked to Kate way back when they had the "beach breakfast in handcuffs" and Ben did something like offer to help cure Diane's cancer (a la Juliette's sister) in return for some yet unrevealed promise.....maybe a promise to get pregnant on the island (since the curse of such a pregnancy was not yet known by the Losties) hence all the sex with Saywer in the cages (so Ben could SEE she was keeping her end of the deal)....then Kate finds out if she has this baby, both of them will die...this would explain why she wants off the island so badly...and why Jack lies to help her stay out of jail once she is off the island

Ben, who wants this child badly, can hold over Diane's head - get the child for me or I I stop your cancer treatments....
kinda weird but could work

Jack has to make a decision who gets off the island.

Claire wants him to take Aaron away, and he does.

Kate doesn't want to let Aaron go, and return to the island back to Claire.

Jack can't raise Aaron and pretend everything is ok, since his real mother is still waiting at the island. That's one reason they need to "get back to the island".

:sob:

Another thing no one has brought up (that I know of) -

In the flashfowards, HOW LONG have they been off the island? Or how long did it take them to get off? Because in the FF, Aaron is at least 3, maybe 4 years old.

Aaron looked like he was two or maybe a small three year old to me. No way was he four.

I think it's because it will eventually be revealed that Aaron is his nephew, and he is therefore a reminder to Jack of his dad's affair. I am very much looking forward to seeing how the Claire/Jack sister and brother storyline will unfold.
Yeah, I think by far the most likely reason is that it's too disturbing for him to have his potential girlfriend raising his father's illegitimate grandson.

I think part of Jack's reluctance is because he's terrified of following in his father's footsteps even further than he's already come -- he didn't want to be a dad with Sarah, and now to get together with Kate, he's got not only to face up to whatever he's feeling guilty about (something terrible in relation to Claire no doubt) he's also got to take on a father role, he simply can't. Isn't it interesting that Sawyer was relieved to not be a dad and Jack has the same quirk, just more subtly? Also, he's probably already drinking at this point, he's following in dad's footsteps on this one, why not on what kind of dad (adoptive or otherwise he'd be) he's just lied his butt off and committed perjury - the antithesis of who he was when the plane crashed. I don't think that the lies on the stand are entirely to do with Kate's and his' attachment to each other.. I think the ease and glibness illustrate that he'd already fallen off the truth wagon and over the liar's cliff. You don't go from the hero of the crash to a perjurer in one easy step, there is something major that persuaded him to lie big time before the trial so that it's just one more thing he's not telling the truth about.

I'm probably very unclear, but it makes sense in my own head...
squid

Agreed on him being less than 4. I'd say 2 or very early 3 at most.

I've got 2 kids, 4 and 2 - no way he is 4.

Now, I'm kind of doubting this is where they'll be taking the story, just because it's a bit too convenient, but bear with me...

I was thinking it's possible that Jack was forced to tell everyone he was Aaron's father as part of the cover story. We know now that time moves differently on the island, so they could've been missing for more than the 9 months it takes to carry a child to term. Let's just say for the sake of argument that the cover story has Jack and Kate having a child on the island, and then splitting up after the rescue.

My guess is that Claire has to stay behind for some reason, but requests her baby be taken to a better place (or dies somehow). So during the rescue, the people who have all the information on the survivors tell Jack that Aaron is his nephew, and that he and Kate will have to pretend they are his parents. This explains why Jack can't "accept" Kate's son...he'll never be okay with lying about his father's infidelity in order to say he's the baby's father.

It also explains why a judge in a federal case would allow Jack to testify with questions like "do you love her?" with the answer "not anymore". If the world thinks Jack's the father of her baby, and the couple are now estranged, this is a valid question.

To take the concept even further, Jack might even be a close enough relation to pass a paternity test, so that nobody could dispute it.

Again, I don't think this is the direction they're heading, but it's at least plausible.

Another thing no one has brought up (that I know of) -

In the flashfowards, HOW LONG have they been off the island? Or how long did it take them to get off? Because in the FF, Aaron is at least 3, maybe 4 years old.
Well according to Lostpedia the flashforwards are in Late 2006/Ealy 07 and he was born on Nov. 1 so he's around 2 by the end of the Eggtown flashforwards.

When I heard Jack's response i seriously thought it was because the baby resembled Sawyer. WOW this is why I love LOST! I agree with others when Jack refused because it either brought back memories of the island or because something happened to Claire and he feels guilty of it.

Yeah, I think by far the most likely reason is that it's too disturbing for him to have his potential girlfriend raising his father's illegitimate grandson.

Though I could see this as a possibility, I can't fathom this being the reason for how Jack literally self destructs in those flash-forwards that we've seen.

Now, I'm kind of doubting this is where they'll be taking the story, just because it's a bit too convenient, but bear with me...

I was thinking it's possible that Jack was forced to tell everyone he was Aaron's father as part of the cover story. We know now that time moves differently on the island, so they could've been missing for more than the 9 months it takes to carry a child to term. Let's just say for the sake of argument that the cover story has Jack and Kate having a child on the island, and then splitting up after the rescue.

My guess is that Claire has to stay behind for some reason, but requests her baby be taken to a better place (or dies somehow). So during the rescue, the people who have all the information on the survivors tell Jack that Aaron is his nephew, and that he and Kate will have to pretend they are his parents. This explains why Jack can't "accept" Kate's son...he'll never be okay with lying about his father's infidelity in order to say he's the baby's father.

It also explains why a judge in a federal case would allow Jack to testify with questions like "do you love her?" with the answer "not anymore". If the world thinks Jack's the father of her baby, and the couple are now estranged, this is a valid question.

To take the concept even further, Jack might even be a close enough relation to pass a paternity test, so that nobody could dispute it.

Again, I don't think this is the direction they're heading, but it's at least plausible.

You're doubtful, but I actually think this is a very viable theory and one I've considered myself.

It could be that Jack disapproves of Kate having kidnapped Aaron, and that's why he doesn't want to see him...just a thought.

Let me preface this by asserting again that there's no way in hell that I believe Kate would ever kidnap Aaron (or anyone). But... say for the sake of argument that she did... why would Jack be so generally pleased to see her (and confess that he still loves her) if he didn't approve of her kidnapping Aaron? Clearly, whatever went down involved them both (and mostly likely all of the O6).

I actually have a bit of a theory about that: right before they leave the island everyone assumes Claire to be dead so Kate takes Aaron thinking Claire would have wanted that, as they're flying off Claire shows up on the beach and everyone finds out she's not dead so Jack feels really guilty because they took her child from her and cant get him back to her. Just a theory.

I agree with you completely that something happened regarding Claire that Jack feels very guilty about. Maybe there was only room for one more on the helicopter & Jack chose Aaron or maybe the helicopter got into difficulties & they had to ditch some weight to survive - Claire being the one to 'volunteer' before Jack could react?

I wouldn't mind betting that something along these lines happened!

Let me preface this by asserting again that there's no way in hell that I believe Kate would ever kidnap Aaron (or anyone). But... say for the sake of argument that she did... why would Jack be so generally pleased to see her (and confess that he still loves her) if he didn't approve of her kidnapping Aaron? Clearly, whatever went down involved them both (and mostly likely all of the O6).

I agree.

The kid seemed about 2.5 to 3. He was still sleeping in a crib, and Kate called him "the baby."

Cardie

It wasn't a crib, it was a toddler bed. Though I agree about the age. He's 3 at most.

My son is 4 and we still call him "the baby". I think parents tend to do that with the youngest (or only) child.
100%
first post on the forum, but have been reading fuselage for a long time. personally, i dont think the answer to this question is very difficult.

1) jack makes a really bad decision about something on the island that gets claire killed. kate knows about what jack did and picks up aaron and takes it back with her to civilization.

2) claire is dead on the island, but a lot of other castaways are still on teh island alive.

3) kate wants to be with jack after they back, but wont unless jack accepts the decision he made that killed claire, and shows that he can move on.

4) jack obviously cannot do that and feels really guilty about what he did to claire, and im assuming here that he finds out she is his half sister before she dies, which leads to him feeling more guilty.

5) therefore jack does not want to see aaron, but in not seeing aaron he feels more guilty about what he did to claire and leaving everyone else on teh island.

6) hence --> season 3 finale jack


I agree with this.

I was still thinking it could be Sawyer's baby conceived on the island and he was named Aaron for Claire's Aaron (something happens to him) but that would be too soap opera-ish.

Could Jack feel guilty about seeing Aaron because of his involvement in Claire's death (if she died on the island?) ? And again, if, Jack had anything to do with her dying.

Just a thought.

Or Ben's got something on them...

This is an interesting idea, seeing as how Ben and Saiyd are in contact (to say the least) post-island, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ben had contact with all the O6. But if they were in contact with Ben, that would make it a lot easier for Jack to try and get back to the island, look for Ben instead of flying over the Pacific ocean and hoping the plan crashes. So maybe they aren't in contact with Ben, and he just recruited Saiyd for his skills.

As for Jack not wanting to see Aaron, it has to be something pretty big, since he obviously wanted to see Kate pretty badly. If guilt were the problem, you'd think that hanging out with Kate would be equally as bad as seeing Aaron. I am leaning towards the "Aaron is special" argument, I think something happened on the island to make Jack afraid of Aaron.

This is an interesting idea, seeing as how Ben and Saiyd are in contact (to say the least) post-island, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ben had contact with all the O6. But if they were in contact with Ben, that would make it a lot easier for Jack to try and get back to the island, look for Ben instead of flying over the Pacific ocean and hoping the plan crashes. So maybe they aren't in contact with Ben, and he just recruited Saiyd for his skills.

As for Jack not wanting to see Aaron, it has to be something pretty big, since he obviously wanted to see Kate pretty badly. If guilt were the problem, you'd think that hanging out with Kate would be equally as bad as seeing Aaron. I am leaning towards the "Aaron is special" argument, I think something happened on the island to make Jack afraid of Aaron.


I agree that Jack is afraid. Perhaps Aaron is more like Walt than we have seen as of yet.

I'm betting he's guilty about killing Claire. I bet somehow, someway, he kills Claire and is so guilty he can't face Aaron.