This definitely deserves a thread of its own. Locke putting dynamite in Miles's mouth is probably the most badass moment in Lost history. :hypocrit:
i hope that is the direction Locke is going in .

This definitely deserves a thread of its own. Locke putting dynamite in Miles's mouth is probably the most badass moment in Lost history. :hypocrit:
i hope that is the direction Locke is going in .

He put a live grenade in Miles mouth. The fact that Locke knew about how it worked and that if he moved his mouth it would go off indicates some military back ground for Locke.
Yep Locke is bad ***. I just hope he can keep his cool. He was starting to loose control after bringing Ben his breakfast.

What did you guys think about Locke putting the grenade in Miles' mouth?
I personally was freaked out because if that was me, I would totally drop it!
Locke means business... and I think Ben sure knows how to push his buttons (no pun intended about the numbers!) Perhaps Ben wanted to make Locke upset so Locke would punish Miles and then Ben wouldn't be blackmailed by Miles anymore!

It might be a dud grenade because I dont think he would anyones life in danger like that, anyone could be near that boathouse if and when he drops the grenade.

That's true, Locke could be playing mind games with Miles to get information out of him... then again, Locke seems really angry and frustrated.

I sure hope it's just mind games because I was extremely disturbed by that scene. But, then again. Locke has always disturbed and now is just getting crazier and crazier.

I think that the granade wasn't live. Locke is way too curious to kill Miles before getting any info out of him. After all, that's the reason he's kept Ben alive this long, hoping he'll tell what he knows. He knows that Miles has info on Ben, which is just what Locke needs for some ammo in their battle of wits that he keeps losing.

I hope Miles gives up the goods on the next episode! I know I would... Locke is scary!

All I know is that I would NOT want to be Ben right about now. Something tells me that Locke is about to go berserk on that bugeyed bastard!

EDIT: The filter pwned my alliteration!

Ben pisses off Locke.
Kate & Sawyer deceive Locke.
Hurley can't help but be Hurley.
Locke takes it all out on Miles.

All I know is that poor Miles was fuhreaked out. He had terror in his eyes. Locke scared the crap out of him. I have a feeling he's going to be spilling the beans sometime soon.

All I know is that poor Miles was fuhreaked out. He had terror in his eyes. Locke scared the crap out of him. I have a feeling he's going to be spilling the beans sometime soon.

I get the feeling that Miles is more bark than bite. I hope Locke is just messin' with him.

You know it's kinda funny. Of the four that landed on the Island, Miles is having a bad couple of days. I am sure he is thinking, "Hey, I didn't sign up for this."

I wonder what the code would be for, "I can't talk right now because I'm tied up and I have a grenade in my mouth."

I get the feeling that Miles is more bark than bite. I hope Locke is just messin' with him.

You know it's kinda funny. Of the four that landed on the Island, Miles is having a bad couple of days. I am sure he is thinking, "Hey, I didn't sign up for this."

I wonder what the code would be for, "I can't talk right now because I'm tied up and I have a grenade in my mouth."

MOMMMMMMYYYYY! That would be the code, wouldn't it, PapaThor?? :lol: OR mb mh m mrmmmrm or something to that effect.
Frankly, I loved the scene. For once, Locke's the con instead of the conee and Miles has finally shut up. His arms and mouth sure are gonna be tired before next week!!

We all know that Locke is right. The flashforwards prove that whatever happened on the island and the people behind "the rescue" are not good. I don't know if it's going to go the way of the self fulfilling prophesy and Locke's actions are going to lead to the war that is going to happen, but I think Locke wants to protect the island and therefore protect the world since it's obvious those powers want to get to whatever the power of the island is. We are seeing the creation of another Ben Linus essentially. I'm sure Ben walked the path of the righteous leader until he realized he had to take drastic steps to get things done. But I really do hope that Miles sings like a canary. Wouldn't that be great? That would make Locke justified if we get one nice piece of the puzzle.

It was truly an excellent rebound for Locke. I think he finally reached his boiling point after everyone is taking turns disrespecting him. Don't think he'll need as much guidance anymore. He has been able to walk, but tonight he finally got a spine.

. He has been able to walk, but tonight he finally got a spine.

hahahaha, well done.

Locke was perfect tonight. I don't really think that it indicates Locke has a military background, because most everyone who has seen a war movie knows that the pin is pulled on a grenade, but what arms it is the "arm" clicking up. Therefore you can pull the pin out and just hold it and it wont go off...

The only reason I say that is because I have no military background at all and I have known that since I was about 12 and noticed it in movies.

i guess it could. But I dont know.

We all know that Locke is right. The flashforwards prove that whatever happened on the island and the people behind "the rescue" are not good. I don't know if it's going to go the way of the self fulfilling prophesy and Locke's actions are going to lead to the war that is going to happen, but I think Locke wants to protect the island and therefore protect the world since it's obvious those powers want to get to whatever the power of the island is. We are seeing the creation of another Ben Linus essentially. I'm sure Ben walked the path of the righteous leader until he realized he had to take drastic steps to get things done. But I really do hope that Miles sings like a canary. Wouldn't that be great? That would make Locke justified if we get one nice piece of the puzzle.

Even though he didn't get directions from Jacob, Locke is using his instincts to guide him to make decisions.

Also, Miles and Ben are not acting innocent or as if they are there to help the Losties. I think that Locke knows this and is treating them accordingly.

We are seeing the creation of another Ben Linus essentially.

A poor-man's Ben Linus. Locke doesn't have the smarts, I'm afraid. Ben and Sawyer get the best of Locke in this episode. All Locke can do is kill a chicken and yell at Kate. Well, I have to admit the whole hand grenade thing was pretty good.

Locke takes it all out on Miles.

Bingo.

I loved it. I'm a huge fan of Psycho Unabomber Locke. But let's call a spade a spade: C-R-A-Z-Y bananas. I love it.
100%
A poor-man's Ben Linus. Locke doesn't have the smarts, I'm afraid.

No, he's nowhere near as coniving and brilliantly devious as Ben is. I've been saying this for a while, but what do you know Locke's still primed to become the new Leader Of Everybody and poor Ben is destined to be his servant in most fandom polls. :D

Am I the only one who thought I heard him mumble "for how long!?!?" with the grenade in his mouth? AWESOME.

I would like to know how Miles gets out of this one - I don't like the guy, but I don't want him dead just yet. I first saw Miles as a threat, but ever since Jack and crew surrounded him Miles has been threatened ever since.

"Hey! When am I gonna get my gun?!"
"You don't expect to go w/o me, do you? You don't? Oh, uh, good."
"I want my 3.2 million dollars!"

And then he gets a grenade in his mouth. I'm lovin' it! :D

He's not the threat I thought him to be.

I got the feeling the grenade was a dud or a fake. If Miles had called Locke's bluff and spit the grenade out, Locke would be dead too. And he must have thought about that.

The DOLT team was pretty floored here.

My post:

Holy crap! Enjoy your breakfast? That was among the most badass things I have ever seen! Locke went from that backgammon game with Sawyer, being all insecure and cute, to shoving an active grenade in a dude's mouth. Suuuuuper cool!
Oh, and I was also a wee bit unsettled by the self-entitlement issues. It seems that through his sawyer talk Locke just wants respect and a little gratitude. He has spent so long working in the background, not rubbing his every accomplishment in the losties' faces, that people just don't appreciate it. I hope he finds a happy medium and gains his confidence without alienating himself further. So Lirpa, where do you think the writers are going with this little character tangent?

Scene opens with Claire and Locke enjoying a nice cup of tea. Suddenly a huge explosion rocks the house.
Claire - What was that?!?
Locke - What?
Claire - That gigantic explosion! It looks like the boat house has been vaporized!
Locke - It's just mice.
Claire - I don't see how mi....
Locke - I SAID, It was mice.
Claire - Oh. Okay sir.
Locke - Fancy a game of backgammon?
And they all live happily ever after, and Miles' bits make an excellent fertilizer for their gardens, and they get to eat loads of salads.
That wrapped up nicely I think.

- So all in all, quite good. Also, come join DOLT.

It was truly an excellent rebound for Locke. I think he finally reached his boiling point after everyone is taking turns disrespecting him. Don't think he'll need as much guidance anymore. He has been able to walk, but tonight he finally got a spine.

Well put! I'm happy to see him standing up for himself and refusing to take all the crap people keep dishing his way. He knows Miles won't take him seriously until he makes him stain his pants, so this move definitely goes down as awesome!

i thought it was evil. and not in a good-evil way. locke used to be one of my fave characters but lately he's getting tiresome. he's turning into a bully.

Loved the line (paraphrasing) Rules are no good without punishment.

I wonder what the code would be for, "I can't talk right now because I'm tied up and I have a grenade in my mouth."

LOL!!:biggrin:

It made me sick :(
If that gernade isn't disabled, all I can say is Locke is going off the deep end for sure.
If the gernade is working, I'm wondering if this little stunt doesn't back fire horribley and doesn't end up killing not only Miles, but Claire too.

Locke is in a weird place right now. I don't know where all this is heading, but I don't see how everything he's doing can be for the benefit of the losties. Maybe some of the stuff, but not everything. He's so concerned with the island, and Ben, that it's totally consuming him. It seems like he doesn't give a crap about any of them.

That. Was. AMAZING. Unbelievably badass!! Cruel, yes, but the badassedness of it definitely makes up for it! Locke rocks too much.

And let's face it... Miles had it coming. He's been all cocky and trying-to-be-tough that someone needed to take him down from his high horse. Now he knows to watch his behavior, lest he get another grenade shoved down his throat. :biggrin: Seriously, he was TERRIFIED. About as terrified as one could be. Locke is made out of pure awesome.

locke is super bad!!!!! i hate him..
can somebody please kill him? so everything can run in good order..

p.s. The grenade never exploted.

That. Was. AMAZING. Unbelievably badass!! Cruel, yes, but the badassedness of it definitely makes up for it! Locke rocks too much.

And let's face it... Miles had it coming. He's been all cocky and trying-to-be-tough that someone needed to take him down from his high horse. Now he knows to watch his behavior, lest he get another grenade shoved down his throat. :biggrin: Seriously, he was TERRIFIED. About as terrified as one could be. Locke is made out of pure awesome.

Unless Locke blows him to pieces first. I really, really hope not.. I'm lovin Miles.
Remus, you crack me up.

It made me sick :(
If that gernade isn't disabled, all I can say is Locke is going off the deep end for sure.
If the gernade is working, I'm wondering if this little stunt doesn't back fire horribley and doesn't end up killing not only Miles, but Claire too.

Agreed. I'm not digging the bad *** Locke. I think he's losing it.

i thought it was evil. and not in a good-evil way. locke used to be one of my fave characters but lately he's getting tiresome. he's turning into a bully.

I agree entirely. If he's so tough, why couldn't he keep it together after leaving Ben's cell? He gave Ben EXACTLY what he wanted (and I'm not talking about the last 2 eggs). The hand grenade was a great narrative detail-- I'm guessing it's not live-- but hand-grenade schmand-grenade, what bothers me is his sudden penchant for fascism.

I've been very pro-Locke all along, but there's no excuse for the condescending, paternalistic way he's treating his fellow Losties. He's enjoying the power-for-power's sake, lording it over the people he's pretending to protect. I guess he is his father's son after all. What bugs me is, why is Sawyer putting up with it?

Unless Locke blows him to pieces first. I really, really hope not.. I'm lovin Miles.
Remus, you crack me up.

Oh, I love Miles too. Plenty! He's actually one of my Top 5 favorite characters. But I still enjoyed seeing him terrified, because he underestimated John Locke. ;) Seriously, it was so incredibly cool. Locke really put him into his place.

locke is super bad!!!!! i hate him..
can somebody please kill him? so everything can run in good order..

p.s. The grenade never exploted.
KILL HIM? Are you kidding and lose the best character on the show, no way. Locke is a big reason why the show is so exciting. I loved the scene with miles and the grenade, I was laughing the whole time, because I couldn't believe that Locke had done that!! I never know what he's going to do next and that's what's so great about him.

haha, that was an AWESOME scene! however, I think Locke is just playing with Miles, and the grenade wasn't live. I mean, if Miles wanted to, he could have dropped it and Locke would have died too.

haha, that was an AWESOME scene! however, I think Locke is just playing with Miles, and the grenade wasn't live. I mean, if Miles wanted to, he could have dropped it and Locke would have died too.

Well, that doesn't really make sense... I mean, Miles would die too. If I was in his situation, I'd probably think that this guy can't really have put a live grenade in my mouth, he's just bluffing... but I would still keep biting down on it, because no way would I ever take the chance.

I get the feeling that Miles is more bark than bite. I hope Locke is just messin' with him.

You know it's kinda funny. Of the four that landed on the Island, Miles is having a bad couple of days. I am sure he is thinking, "Hey, I didn't sign up for this."

I wonder what the code would be for, "I can't talk right now because I'm tied up and I have a grenade in my mouth."

I would have to say that Charlotte has had the worst time of it yet. Pretty much as soon as she gets out of the tree she landed in, she is captured by Locke, then shot twice in the chest by Ben. So far all Miles has had to deal with is fear. No harm has come to him as of yet. Unless you count Kate grabbing him by the throat, which by his comment didn't seem to bother him too much.

I sure hope it's just mind games because I was extremely disturbed by that scene. But, then again. Locke has always disturbed and now is just getting crazier and crazier.

How is this more disturbing than tying up Boone and drugging him, then leaving him alone in the jungle with the monster? Or throwing a bowie knife into the back of Naomi? I mean her back was to him, what a coward.

We all know that Locke is right. The flashforwards prove that whatever happened on the island and the people behind "the rescue" are not good. I don't know if it's going to go the way of the self fulfilling prophesy and Locke's actions are going to lead to the war that is going to happen, but I think Locke wants to protect the island and therefore protect the world since it's obvious those powers want to get to whatever the power of the island is. We are seeing the creation of another Ben Linus essentially. I'm sure Ben walked the path of the righteous leader until he realized he had to take drastic steps to get things done. But I really do hope that Miles sings like a canary. Wouldn't that be great? That would make Locke justified if we get one nice piece of the puzzle.

I think Ben was taking drastic steps long before he was the "leader" of the Others (which I still don't think he is, he takes his orders from someone, ahem, Jacob). Remember when he donned a gas mask, while having a beer with his Dad and sat there watching his Dad die from the poison gas that Ben himself released in the very van they were both sitting in. That didn't seem to phase Ben at all. Now I know is dad was a complete A-hole to him his whole life, but still. He wasn't exactly walking the path of the righteous. Last time I checked murder is never righteous. Regardless of how good the intentions behind it are.

As for Locke putting a grenade in Miles mouth. I don't know whether that's a con or not. We still don't know for sure if he really destroyed that submarine or not. I wouldn't put much past Locke at this point though. He has been through quite a bit. Not only conned out of one of his kidneys, but also pushed out of a window and crippled by his own father. Damn near killed in the hatch explosion, that granted he ultimately caused to happen. Shot and left for dead in a pit of corpses by Ben. I think if he hasn't reached it yet, he is pretty close to the end of his rope.

haha, that was an AWESOME scene! however, I think Locke is just playing with Miles, and the grenade wasn't live. I mean, if Miles wanted to, he could have dropped it and Locke would have died too.
I was thinking along the same line too. I think he wants to scare Miles but not kill him. Although I can never figure Locke out, so I may be wrong, who knows!!

What bugs me is, why is Sawyer putting up with it?

I think Sawyer and Hurley might organize a mutiny for the good of everyone. You notice they're rooming together.

Locke has changed so much. Back in season 1, he was everyone's pop-up guru at moments of crisis. (Remember Charlie: "If there were one person on the island I would trust to keep us safe, it would be John Locke.") Even in Season 3, he was all "I don't run things like Jack; this is a democracy and anyone can come along." Now, as Sawyer says, he's gone all Colonel Kurtz.

Well, that doesn't really make sense... I mean, Miles would die too. If I was in his situation, I'd probably think that this guy can't really have put a live grenade in my mouth, he's just bluffing... but I would still keep biting down on it, because no way would I ever take the chance.

But if Locke leaves eventually Miles will tire and drop the grenade anyways. Take Locke out while you can.

I sure hope it's just mind games because I was extremely disturbed by that scene. But, then again. Locke has always disturbed and now is just getting crazier and crazier.
I was disturbed as well. I think that Locke is losing it. This guy came onto the island to supposedly save them and the only reason Locke doesn't believe him is because "walt" told him not to. I'm not saying that Miles is a good guy, but Locke is really freaking me out. Of course, it probably has a lot to do with his past and being pushed around and bullied, so I will go with the flow. How about when Kate said is this a dictatorship and Locke replied, if that was so, I'd just shoot you! HELLO!

Didn't Locke also say as he was leaving,"Enjoy your breakfast"...
or something like that. That was a bigger WTF moment for me
than the Aaron ending.
Locke is out of control! :ranting:

That was pretty evil, I would have dropped it and volleyed it out of the door when Locke opened it. Theres no way someone could hold something that big in their mouth for any amount of time.

To me, this is a new low point for Locke. I don't like his "dictatorship" attitude and he is so obssessed with the island and its secrets that he is willing to kill Miles (or make him think he is going to kill him....I agree, the grenade may not be live). He is becoming more like Ben everyday.

He is losing control and is lashing out at everyone in his path. You know it is bad when he is asking Sawyer for advice.

It might be a dud grenade because I dont think he would anyones life in danger like that, anyone could be near that boathouse if and when he drops the grenade.

kind of reminded me of when ben put that heartbeat monitor on sawyer and told him if it reached a certain bpm his heart would explode - miles also doesn't know if the grenade is real or fake, and i'm pretty sure he's not willing to drop it in order to find out! pretty good way to acquire control of the situation, to be sure.

I've been very pro-Locke all along, but there's no excuse for the condescending, paternalistic way he's treating his fellow Losties. He's enjoying the power-for-power's sake, lording it over the people he's pretending to protect. I guess he is his father's son after all. What bugs me is, why is Sawyer putting up with it?
Thanks for this, you said it better than I could. Locke scared the crap out of me in the scene with Miles, and mostly because he's becoming a power crazy maniac. Kate can deal with it when he banishes her - why should she really care? But Claire and Hurley are probably in some real serious danger right now. This is not the same man who guided Charlie into drug addiction remission - he's not a guide but a dictator now. I'm worried.

haha, that was an AWESOME scene! however, I think Locke is just playing with Miles, and the grenade wasn't live. I mean, if Miles wanted to, he could have dropped it and Locke would have died too.

Not necessarily, a grenade doesn't go off immediately after releasing the safety lever or else you couldn't throw one without killing yourself. If Miles opened his mouth while Locke was still there, Locke would have a few seconds to get away or at least get out of the shack to escape serious injury. Miles would be hosed though since he's tied and can't go anywhere. You typically have 4-5 seconds of delay for the fuse to detonate the grenade after releasing the safety lever.

But if Locke leaves eventually Miles will tire and drop the grenade anyways. Take Locke out while you can.

It's not like Miles is going to have to keep it there all day. It's his "breakfast", probably just a couple of hours. I think he can hang on that long, especially as it's his life we're talking about.

But I'm not worried at all.. I'm absolutely convinced that Miles will survive. And the grenade probably isn't live anyway. We'll see. But the point is, Miles is going to make it.

I'd love to try one of Locke's specialty breakfasts.

I heard they're a blast.

:rolleyes:

I agree entirely. If he's so tough, why couldn't he keep it together after leaving Ben's cell? He gave Ben EXACTLY what he wanted (and I'm not talking about the last 2 eggs). The hand grenade was a great narrative detail-- I'm guessing it's not live-- but hand-grenade schmand-grenade, what bothers me is his sudden penchant for fascism.

I've been very pro-Locke all along, but there's no excuse for the condescending, paternalistic way he's treating his fellow Losties. He's enjoying the power-for-power's sake, lording it over the people he's pretending to protect. I guess he is his father's son after all. What bugs me is, why is Sawyer putting up with it?
I, too, used to be a fan of Locke, but how he seems drunk on power, and more than a little out of control. Jack has his own faults, but Jack is a better leader.

I would never have gone with Locke.

yea i thought that scene was nice but i am really not a locke fan... i do think the grenade was a dud and is being used a scare tactic cause locke does intend to get info out of miles...

I think Locke's playing headgames with Miles. You can't get answers from a blown up .....captive. He getting very frustrated and is trying to play head games like Ben keeps doing to him.

That scene was the most awesome thing Locke has done since Season 1 when he guru'd Charlie out of drug addiction.

You know, I miss guru Locke as well, but here's the thing: he's tried several times to get away from the pack and go off on his own. He can't do it because he really is supposed to protect the island, and because as someone who's older and knows a lot of shit, the Losties keep looking to him for leadership. We pretty much know he's right about a couple of things: THEY ARE THERE FOR A REASON. This IS his destiny. And the freighties are not there to rescue them.

Given that, should he not be leading these people at this point? Is he into "power for power's sake?" I don't think so at all. Leaders run things. In times of danger, leaders need to make sure people do what they say they're gonna do. They need to make sure rules don't get broken. If they all think Ben is going to grab a gun and start killing people, if they all suspect Miles is up to no good (but don't know for sure), then why wouldn't he be ROYALLY pissed that Kate shot the padlock off Ben's cell and put those two together in a meeting, basically for PERSONAL reasons?

I'm not saying he's not nuts...most people would be nuts if they'd lived his life, then gotten to an island where you have visions telling you your destiny it to protect it, and then kept screwing yourself out of success because you're too lilly-livered to get the job done.

My feeling: Locke is supposed to lead these people and protect the island, and he's FINALLY doing what he needs to do in order to do that.

The difference between Ben and Locke as leaders is this: Ben is a manipulator who uses people to his own ends. Locke is pretty transparent: his objectives are clear and when he wants someone to do something, or not to do it, he tells them straight up. His way or the highway.

I think the grenade scene, whether the item was live or not, was pretty damn up-front: Locke finally learned that laying down the law means nothing if you don't enforce the law when someone breaks it. He didn't slam Kate in the pen, he just told her to get out of there. He's probably being too nice. I think the treatment he gave Miles is totally awesome and appropriate. It's what Sayid would do, for one thing.

I just hope he keeps it up...but judging from the fact that he let Kate go back to the beach AND has no idea Sawyer was in on the deception, he's probably in for a few more lessons down the road.

...all that said, I will also say that I DID find disturbing not this scene, but the backgammon scene, both because he was playing with the dark pieces, and because he chuckled when Sawyer said "baa." But that's another thread.

This is another allusion to the Iraq War which was a big part of the second half of season 1 and some of season 2, but we haven't seen it in a while. The question as to whether or not torture is acceptable or if torture backfires and reflects worse on the torturer than the criminal/enemy combatant being tortured.

locke is super bad!!!!! i hate him..
can somebody please kill him? so everything can run in good order..

p.s. The grenade never exploted.

Yeah good call. Ill take that one further: Let's all stop watching mean ol' Lost, get a nice glass of Ovaltine and watch Gilligan's Island instead. That way our moms will still be able to tuck us in nice and early so we can get up at 8 and renew our subscriptions to Tiger Beat magazine.

Locke ruled. Done.



EDIT: Oh and Surferdervish, very nice post (non-sarcastically)!

I don't know where all this is heading, but I don't see how everything he's doing can be for the benefit of the losties

I take Locke at his word--"I am responsible for the well-being of the island." If he can help some Losties as well, he will. But they are not his primary objective.

I think the writers are setting up Locke going darker and losing what tenuous grasp of being a leader he had.

We've already seen Jack lose some leadership cred by holding a gun to a defenseless Locke's head and pulling the trigger. Sayid informing Jack that he would not be accompanying Sayid (due to his inability to control his impulses) on the trek to obtain Charlotte would have never happened before in Lost. In the flash forward, Jack is shown to be slower than Hurley in understanding the need to return to the island. Jack, once a true leader, seems to be on the verge of a story arc that takes him lower and lower. No doubt that we will see Jack recover from this eventually.

Locke, on the other hand, was never a true leader. Sure, he seemed to have a lot of nifty knowledge that came in handy on an seemingly uninhabited island, and he seemed to have some mysterious understanding of an island where all sorts of weird and potentially lethal phenomena occur. But, he has always been a follower and not a leader. The grenade in the mouth of Miles, while a being a most entertaining scene, also added to the picture of Locke losing control, both over himself and the Losties who accompanied him. He is becoming more and more a martinet.

Me I am a huge fan of Locke and I am so excited that he he is mind tripping Miles right now. It is quite obvious Locke will never get info out Ben(cause Ben is not afraid to die he has made that quite obvious), but maybe he can get info out of Miles about Ben. As for some people saying on here that Locke is turning facist I am sorry I just don't see it, Locke has finally found something to have faith in and that also has faith in him and that is the island. Like he said to Miles he is protecting the island. He is doing what he thinks is best and well the other losties Locke isn't keeping them their hostage , if they don't want to follow his lead or stay on the island well than they should go back to Jack and the freighties. Personally I am more scared of Jack since he pulled the trigger of that gun on Locke someone he has known for over 90 days !

I think that the problem is that Locke, even if he's right, is incapable of truly explaining why he is right and why should be people follow him. All he says is I know the way, and people disoriented by 100 days of hell, say better go with someone who thinks he knows what he's doing than jumping into the void. But... Maybe going with Locke is jumping into the void!

I think in the end, he will end up being right, but not vindicated in any way because of the way he did things. There is more than one way to do things and Locke seems to think that there is ONE single way.

Thanks MTQuinn, back at ya.

I think the fact that he let Kate go back to the beach is proof that he is not YET a martinet. Some of you could very well be right about the direction in which he's headed though (the backgammon scene is more foreshadowing than I'd like), but I'll wait until he actually pulls the trigger on an 815er before I'll make my mind up!

Locke really wants/needs Miles. I think, while he won't cry for him if he died, he really wants Miles for the info he can supply. He traded Charlotte for Miles for a reason: either to obtain info or use him as a hostage, or whatever his reason is. He doesn't WANT to kill him.

We've already seen Jack lose some leadership cred by holding a gun to a defenseless Locke's head and pulling the trigger. Sayid informing Jack that he would not be accompanying Sayid (due to his inability to control his impulses) on the trek to obtain Charlotte would have never happened before in Lost. In the flash forward, Jack is shown to be slower than Hurley in understanding the need to return to the island. Jack, once a true leader, seems to be on the verge of a story arc that takes him lower and lower. No doubt that we will see Jack recover from this eventually.

Locke, on the other hand, was never a true leader. Sure, he seemed to have a lot of nifty knowledge that came in handy on an seemingly uninhabited island, and he seemed to have some mysterious understanding of an island where all sorts of weird and potentially lethal phenomena occur. But, he has always been a follower and not a leader. The grenade in the mouth of Miles, while a being a most entertaining scene, also added to the picture of Locke losing control, both over himself and the Losties who accompanied him. He is becoming more and more a martinet.

That was a very nice post! I had many of the same feelings. I disagree though with your statement that Locke has always been a follower. True, Locke has never been a stereotypical leader. Jack has always offered the losties a tangeable goal: get off this island that we crashed on.That is a political platform that the common crash victim can easily relate to. Locke has shown himself to be a leader to those who have a sense of adventure like Walt, Charlie, Boone, and even Sayid, Desmond, and Eko earlier on (think "You are a hunter, John"). His openness and knowledge attracts different sort of person. So next time I want to go hunting boar with Rose, I'll give Jack a call.

I felt that Locke was losing some control as well. Another way to look at it though is that he is finally evolving. He is changing from a man whos lack of self-esteem caused him to roll over in the face of opposition, to someone who fights for his sense of justice.

Another way to look at it though is that he is finally evolving. He is changing from a man whos lack of self-esteem caused him to roll over in the face of opposition, to someone who fights for his sense of justice.

Thanks for the kind words. An interesting perspective you offer here, as well. What do you make of Ben's frequent and effective chiding of Locke as someone who is still looking for someone (Ben, Jacob) to inform him what to do.

Locke has never been a stereotypical leader. Jack has always offered the losties a tangeable goal: get off this island that we crashed on.That is a political platform that the common crash victim can easily relate to. Locke has shown himself to be a leader to those who have a sense of adventure like Walt, Charlie, Boone, and even Sayid, Desmond, and Eko earlier on (think "You are a hunter, John"). His openness and knowledge attracts different sort of person. So next time I want to go hunting boar with Rose, I'll give Jack a call.

I felt that Locke was losing some control as well. Another way to look at it though is that he is finally evolving. He is changing from a man whos lack of self-esteem caused him to roll over in the face of opposition, to someone who fights for his sense of justice.

Yes, yes, yes and yes. Locke IS a leader, for people of a more individualist bent. In his past life, he was always looking for a family, somewhere to fit in. When he found himself rejected over and over, he became a bitter individualist. On the island, he finds that his destiny is to lead and to protect--this is something he could only read about in books prior to the crash. And he IS a natural, as he showed in season one when he fathered Charlie and Walt and helped the 815ers to feed and house themselves. Now things have gotten more complicated and he's being tested, over and over. The problems come only when he doubts his own abilities and reverts to his old self--that is when he looks for someone to follow.

It remains to be seen whether he can develop the "tough but fair" judgment he needs in a crisis--that's the difference between a leader and a dictator. So far I think he's doing fine and will as long as he continues to evolve... but I expect major setbacks, if past history (and Hurley's flash forward) is any indicator....

What do you make of Ben's frequent and effective chiding of Locke as someone who is still looking for someone (Ben, Jacob) to inform him what to do.

Ben is just that good. He recently worked Sawyer over mind-style too. Much of it is due to the fact that he has spent a long time on the island and has the luxury of a neat little dossier on each of our losties. I feel that Ben has been planting this seed in Locke for a long time now. He has been dangling this "You might be the chosen one, buuuuuut maybe not" carrot in front of John's face for too long now and has reinforced and overinflated his need for island-based direction. He was at first a man uncovering secrets for secrets sake, and now Ben has put him on a different track. What used to be fun now just seems a lot like work.

Now I think nothing would make Locke happier than to uncover all the secrets of the island and rub it in Ben's smug little punching bag of a face. Every time he cannot take a huge step forward Ben makes it seem like a huge step back. That's what is so difficult about working near a manipulative antisocial (meant in the cluster B, DSM-iv sense) personality.

I really liked the scene. It had some real wooo weee to it. But one thing strange to me is the fact a grenade could actually fit in a person's mouth. I've never actually held one but it seems to me they are larger than an average person's mouth could hold? I don't know... just crossed my mind while watching it. Nonetheless very cool scene indeed.

Miles has a very big mouth!

That scene freaked me out, man. If that is a real grenade, Locke has LOST it.

...no pun intended.

My two cents. This was definitely one of the better scenes on LOST thus far but I guess maybe it's just because I'm glad that Locke, who initially was so strong and confident, might be growing a spine again. I keep thinking that he's gotten past his issues (and the shows keeps leading us to think that he has), but then he regresses again. I really don't like the Locke that smashes the tray into the wall...

I had some more thoughts that have escaped me now because dinner just arrived, but will add / edit soon. So that was my one cent worth... =)

EDIT: Ah, yes - In regard to an earlier post, I believe that Locke knows what type of person Miles is (you can see it by looking at him) and has pretty good faith that he won't be letting that grenade drop (in the sense that HE WILL be able to hold onto it until Locke comes back).
100%
I got the feeling the grenade was a dud or a fake. If Miles had called Locke's bluff and spit the grenade out, Locke would be dead too. And he must have thought about that.

Most real grenades aren't anything like what you see in the movies... if it was just a fragmentation grenade (most likely), Locke wouldn't have had much happen to him at all if he had run just outside the door. Or walked for that matter. Most grenades take 3-5 seconds from release of the lever.
100%
That. Was. AMAZING. Unbelievably badass!! Cruel, yes, but the badassedness of it definitely makes up for it! Locke rocks too much.

And let's face it... Miles had it coming. He's been all cocky and trying-to-be-tough that someone needed to take him down from his high horse. Now he knows to watch his behavior, lest he get another grenade shoved down his throat. :biggrin: Seriously, he was TERRIFIED. About as terrified as one could be. Locke is made out of pure awesome.

And I suppose that he SHOULD be considering that he KNOWS that Locke is the one that killed Naomi... LOL

He's got NOOO reason to think that Locke may be bluffing!

I got the feeling the grenade was a dud or a fake. If Miles had called Locke's bluff and spit the grenade out, Locke would be dead too. And he must have thought about that.

Don't forget how much faith Locke has in the island and how much he wants to protect the island. I think that Locke's line of thinking would be, 'if the island wants me to die also, then so be it'
But he has faith that the grenade will not go off because he knows the island won't let it.
Perhaps Locke is on the path to being able to see Jacob's cabin again. Perhaps he lost faith and is starting to find it again- and the grenade scene is evidence of that.
(if it is a live grenade that is)

My TMJ hurts just thinking about this scene. I wonder whether Locke's "sheep" may start getting spooked by his actions--hostage taking, refusing to brook opposition, throwing Kate out of the Barracks &c. That would put more stress on Locke's leadership and bring some more drama and conflict into the Barracks team.

Miles is scared now, but I really hope he gets sullen and snarky and refuses to "sing" when Locke comes back. It would be much more entertaining to watch.:biggrin: They've reached the point where any more beat-downs on Ben would make one wonder why he doesn't need an emergency room, but it would be a shame to leave those talented makeup artists without bruises to create, so Miles can take the next few blows. I have a bit I would dearly love to see, just right for spring:

Locke: Now, why did you really come here?

Miles: I work for the IRS. We have some questions for Mr. Linus about his last tax return. It appears he may be misunderstanding what deductions he is allowed, and he has not filed the proper forms for wages earned while a non-resident in the US....

Miles was still trying to play tough-guy with Locke, so it was definitely a necessary step to snap him out of his "I'm a badass" mentality towards perhaps loosening up and giving him some answers... answers no one knows and only Locke seems to be actively pursuing.

Alive or not... putting a grenade in someone's mouth shows a new direction for Locke. He shots Naomi and now this. He definitely doesn't want these people messing with his plans to stay on the island.

Alive or not... putting a grenade in someone's mouth shows a new direction for Locke. He shots Naomi and now this. He definitely doesn't want these people messing with his plans to stay on the island.

Locke is like Shaft. Very similar.

Those were some mighty fine lines...
"My name is John Locke, and I'm responsible for the wellbeing of this island."
"Enjoy your breakfast."

heh. Well, if he wasn't Colonel Kurtz before, he is now.

I wonder whether Locke's "sheep" may start getting spooked by his actions--hostage taking, refusing to brook opposition, throwing Kate out of the Barracks &c. That would put more stress on Locke's leadership and bring some more drama and conflict into the Barracks team.

I was thinking that this is how Hurley and Aaron end up off the Island, Hurley and Claire may go back to Team Jack. They already seem mildly creeped out by him and they didn't follow Locke in the first place, they followed Charlie.

OK... realistically though... how long can Miles keep biting onto that grenade before he goes slackjawed?

Well put! I'm happy to see him standing up for himself and refusing to take all the crap people keep dishing his way. He knows Miles won't take him seriously until he makes him stain his pants, so this move definitely goes down as awesome!

What made it so great was that is was Miles on the receiving end. I haven't heard a positive post about him yet and the fact he was trying to hustle Ben made it even better.

Help me here. If I want to jam a disabled grenade in someone's mouth, how do I first disable it? Personally, I wouldn't experiment with the live grenade long enough to learn how to disable the darn thing. I have to assume either Locke is an expert in military ordnance, or the grenade is live. IMO.

This definitely deserves a thread of its own. Locke putting dynamite in Miles's mouth is probably the most badass moment in Lost history.
Yes, but it accomplishes nothing for Locke. If Miles had someone to talk to, the listener could hold onto the bomb trigger.

lostgurl, I completely agree with you. John Locke has only two real priorities -- the island's secrets and defending the island. Everything else, including the people, is expendable. I am once again reminded of Rose's comment about not going anywhere with "that man." He has no problem believing the island demands sacrifices. I believe he would willingly sacrifice any of the losties if he believed the island asked for it. That makes him very dangerous as a leader.

The only protection those who went with Locke have is Sawyer. With his recent exhibits of selfishness, Sawyer may or may not pick up on their need soon enough to defend the people with them. But at least he does recognize they are like trusting sheep. Maybe he'll take pity on them and protect them from Locke's love of human sacrifice.

Ben said that the freighter people coming would lead to the death of every man woman and child on the island. I wonder if island worshiping John Locke is the mechanism that brings that about.

Yes, but it accomplishes nothing for Locke. If Miles had someone to talk to, the listener could hold onto the bomb trigger.

I think that it sends the message that Locke means business. Right before that grenade was shoved into his mouth, Miles was just getting ready to fire off a smartass comment. Problem solved.

He has no problem believing the island demands sacrifices. I believe he would willingly sacrifice any of the losties if he believed the island asked for it. That makes him very dangerous as a leader.

Maybe he'll take pity on them and protect them from Locke's love of human sacrifice.

Locke didn't take Boone out and kill him because he was told that the island needed a human sacrifice, he was trying to justify it to himself after the fact. Locke, in fact, told Boone to get out of the plane when he saw that it was falling, and it was Boone who chose to stay in it in an attempt to reach someone over the radio. Locke did NOT kill Boone, nor did he kill any of our Losties to appease this bloodthirsty island that I've never heard tell of before. He apologized to Boone in his vision, and he felt terrible for what happened to him. Locke isn't sitting atop a Mayan pyramid looking for human sacrifices to rip the hearts out of, he's just looking for answers.

If you care to look past Sawyer's gorgeous hair, and instead looked at the past actions of both him and Locke, I think you would easily see who has the real bloodlust here.

Hi Shione,

Locke did tell Boone to go up there. Even Nikki and Paolo saw that the plane was in a precarious position and was unstable. Boone was hesitant about going up there but Locke told him to do it. What was worse is that Locke lied about the situation to Jack when he brought Boone in to be treated. Locke put Boone in a dangerous situation. He will put anyone in a dangerous situation if it serves his or the island's needs. It seems his need for answers exceeds his concerns for other people's welfare.

Even in the most dangerous situations you feel safer following a leader if you believe has your best interest in mind. It is much more difficult if you know the leader has an agenda other than your well being in mind. John Locke has another agenda. That makes it very difficult to trust him as a leader.

He will put anyone in a dangerous situation if it serves his or the island's needs. It seems his need for answers exceeds his concerns for other people's welfare.

He didn't intend to cause any harm to Boone, is my point. He didn't think he was trading Boone's life for potential answers, he was just very driven to find out what the island had to offer. This enthusiasm was even shared by Boone, who stuck by his side for a long time, and thought pretty highly of him. When Locke saw that the plane was actually going to fall, he was genuinely concerned; and when Boone was injured he didn't just leave him, he carried him to the beach so Jack could help him. He did everything he could to remedy the situation, and when he couldn't, he was completely torn up internally.

Itsalldark you make a lot of good points, I agree! I was so surprised when I saw this scene, which i loved :sweety: I've been on Locke's side since season 1 when he seemed to actually care about the 815ers. It took this episode for me to realize he really has gone over to the deep end, even if he IS doing what's good for the Island. He's still gotta be my favorite though (along with Jack); but now he's my favorite villian :P

All I know is that poor Miles was fuhreaked out. He had terror in his eyes. Locke scared the crap out of him. I have a feeling he's going to be spilling the beans sometime soon.If this show has taught us anything, it's that no one ever spills anything. Except maybe Bernard.


Though I loved seeing Locke not getting trampled for once, I have no hope in it leading anywhere useful. The writers have become way too predictable with these prisoner scenes. Note how Ben, nearly shot at the end of Confirmed Dead, is still alive and happily manipulating anyone who comes near him, all without revealing a single new piece of actual, useful information.

And I suspect this will continue to be the case for the next two seasons.

Locke is the only one on this island with a clue. Ben is obviously ahead of him in the clue department thus the dynamic between them. No other lostie has had even a molecule's worth of insight that Locke has. This is not a drama about Locke vs. Jack. It is an epic, save humanity, struggle between Locke vs Ben and always has been in my opinion.

Ben played his card by telling Locke that he is more "lost" than he ever was. The gauntlet has been laid down. Locke MUST prevail. This what at least Jack and hopefully the rest of the O6 have realized after leaving the island and thus Jack's desperation to return at all costs. Remember Jack said to Kate at the airport runway in the final scene from S3 (i paraphrase) "i keep flying back and forth every weekend just hoping for the plane to crash... I don't care about anybody else on the plane... I just want it to crash so I can get back!"

More grenades in mouths if that is what it takes. Sometimes the well being of the many outweigh that of the few. Locke realizes this. Jack realizes this now as well.

While reading the episode summary at Lostpedia this evening, something struck me. Of all the reasons one could have for shoving a grenade in Miles' mouth, Locke says he does it bacause Miles didn't follow the rules. Huh?:eek2: Since when is a hostage expected to follow Locke's rules? Are they posted in the boathouse for Miles to read? Even if it suited Miles' plans to stay hostage in Otherville, I must have missed the scene where he agrees to be a good boy and follow Locke's rules. Does this mean Mr. "Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do!" has turned into Mr. "I'll Tell You What To Do!"?

While reading the episode summary at Lostpedia this evening, something struck me. Of all the reasons one could have for shoving a grenade in Miles' mouth, Locke says he does it bacause Miles didn't follow the rules. Huh?:eek2: Since when is a hostage expected to follow Locke's rules? Are they posted in the boathouse for Miles to read? Even if it suited Miles' plans to stay hostage in Otherville, I must have missed the scene where he agrees to be a good boy and follow Locke's rules. Does this mean Mr. "Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do!" has turned into Mr. "I'll Tell You What To Do!"?

Yeah, it seems that Miles was totally being punished for Kate's breaking him out. What is supposed to do -say 'no, I think Locke will spank me if I leave?'

He wasn't being punished for that particular act, he was being punished for being a Freightie in general. Locke knows they are a threat to the Island, he knows that they are there for more than they're letting on, and this was a very unsubtle way of letting Miles know that he won't be walked all over like the other Losties.

Ben pisses off Locke.
Kate & Sawyer deceive Locke.
Hurley can't help but be Hurley.
Locke takes it all out on Miles.

Hurley is always inadvertently pwning Locke. First he sets up his old boss to make Locke his tool at the box factory, then he sees the cabin, then he lets Kate in on Miles' location.

I hear those of you who miss the old Locke. He is so hard to figure out. I really hope he does not meet his demise by being tricked by Ben. I have to say I am really worried he's going to lose it. I mean the build up between he and Jack over the years... that's what makes tragedies so hard to take, because characters you love turn bad or change for the worse.

But he did get his legs back for a reason, right? Hopefully it is not to just go crazy!!!

Come back good Locke!

Yeah, it seems that Miles was totally being punished for Kate's breaking him out. What is supposed to do -say 'no, I think Locke will spank me if I leave?'Well, yeah, I think that is the idea. Locke wants him afraid.

But it wasn't just the breakout. It was Miles' refusal to talk. Locke is making it clear who's in charge.

Well, yeah, I think that is the idea. Locke wants him afraid.

But it wasn't just the breakout. It was Miles' refusal to talk. Locke is making it clear who's in charge.

I'm not gonna argue with a man who just put a grenade in my mouth (at least not WHILE the grenade is in my mouth!) Point taken. :)

This was 1 of the most cheesiest parts I have ever seen on Lost.

How is Miles supposed to say " Hey I can't hold this in my mouth any longer" ? At 1 point your going to get tired of having a heavy metal object in you mouth, and not be able to hold it there.

This was so dumb. DUMB DUMB DUMB
100%
If anyone wanted to talk to Miles, they would just take the grenade out and hold the pin on it. Then when they were done talking, that person would just put it back.

WEAK

This was 1 of the most cheesiest parts I have ever seen on Lost.

How is Miles supposed to say " Hey I can't hold this in my mouth any longer" ? At 1 point your going to get tired of having a heavy metal object in you mouth, and not be able to hold it there.

This was so dumb. DUMB DUMB DUMB

Isn't it just basically that - a scare tactic? I think Johnny will come back and take the thing out of his mouth before it has time to blow. He wants to hear what Miles has to say.

Actually, I don't think the grenade is loaded - or whatever you call a grenade that is full of stuff and ready to blow. Remember that gun he threatened Jack with - the one that Jack would have shot Locke in the head with? It wasn't loaded.

It seems to be a recurring scare tactic on the island - Ben not really putting a deadly pacemaker in Sawyer, just making him think he did. I would guess fear is the best way to make a point.

Isn't it just basically that - a scare tactic? I think Johnny will come back and take the thing out of his mouth before it has time to blow. He wants to hear what Miles has to say.

Actually, I don't think the grenade is loaded - or whatever you call a grenade that is full of stuff and ready to blow. Remember that gun he threatened Jack with - the one that Jack would have shot Locke in the head with? It wasn't loaded.

It seems to be a recurring scare tactic on the island - Ben not really putting a deadly pacemaker in Sawyer, just making him think he did. I would guess fear is the best way to make a point.

That pacemaker tangent was the 2nd most cheesiest thing on Lost ever.

That pacemaker tangent was the 2nd most cheesiest thing on Lost ever.

But Sawyer fell for it, which was the point.

Heck, I fell for it! At that time Ben and the Others were a complete unknown. Granted, we still really don't know that much about them....

I'm still trying to figure out if putting a grenade in Miles' mouth was truly a scare tactic.

After all, we know earlier in the episode that Locke already offered Ben the last of the eggs and he killed off the chicken.

In light of the scarcity of breakfast foods there were to offer, maybe the grenade was all that was left for Locke to convey some semblance of hospitality.

Like Miles, I think I'm going to be left hanging and having to chew on this for awhile.

:24:

I believe it is a real live grenade and that it is meant to shut Miles up and "make him think", if that's even something he can do. How much of an effort does it take to keep your mouth shut for an hour or two, especially when you know the alternative?

I think this is much less extreme for Locke than him stabbing Naomi in the back. At least in Miles' case, we come to know him as a pain in the *** gold digger. I mean, who even cares if he can commune with the dead? All he wants is money. Good for Locke!

I loved the whole "good cop/ bad cop" aspect. First he cooks up breakfast for Ben. He even uses the last two eggs. Then he jams that grenade in Miles' mouth. I think the writers did a good job off leaving us as lost as Locke currently is. Who do we see next. Good Locke ? Bad Locke ? Not as black and white as it used to be.

I'm still trying to figure out if putting a grenade in Miles' mouth was truly a scare tactic.

After all, we know earlier in the episode that Locke already offered Ben the last of the eggs and he killed off the chicken.

In light of the scarcity of breakfast foods there were to offer, maybe the grenade was all that was left for Locke to convey some semblance of hospitality.

Like Miles, I think I'm going to be left hanging and having to chew on this for awhile.

:24:

Grenade=pineapple:biggrin:

Ok, this scene was so AWWWWWWWWESOOOOOME! Didnt kinda have a Saw feel to it, and Locke was playing Jigsaw? creeeepy!

Anyway, I think Miles is the spy and his little chit chat with Ben was just some undercover talk.

This scene still bugs me. Yes, Locke is sooooo tough with Miles, whom he doesn't know, yet with Ben, who's obviously far more dangerous, he can't keep his little toddler temper tantrum to himself. He played RIGHT into Ben's hand! There's a name for people who are tough with weaker people and weak with tougher people: coward.

I don't think the grenade was live, either. I think the most bada$$ moment in Lost hisotry was when Saydi broke that guy's neck with his feet. Yowza.

I don't think the grenade was live, either. I think the most badbutt moment in Lost hisotry was when Saydi broke that guy's neck with his feet. Yowza.

Amen! To quote Hurley 'I saw you kill that dude on the beach with your breakdancing move' - or something to that effect.

I also agree that I don't think the grenade is live. But, we shall see.....

If TPTB really are intent on turning Locke into an A-grade nutjob then this is the sort of thing I want to see from him, because if he continues on this path then it won't be too long before someone turns on him. Best to go out in a blaze of glory while you can.

Best hand grenade scene since Woody Harrelson in The Thin Red Line.

This scene still bugs me. Yes, Locke is sooooo tough with Miles, whom he doesn't know, yet with Ben, who's obviously far more dangerous, he can't keep his little toddler temper tantrum to himself. He played RIGHT into Ben's hand! There's a name for people who are tough with weaker people and weak with tougher people: coward.

I think Locke has in many cases shown he has an ample supply of cowardice, but also I'm suspecting that if Locke thought he could get what he wanted out of Ben by being tough that he'd do it in a heartbeat. With Ben, he sees he has an opponent who far outclasses him. Even when he has Ben completely captive, Ben has the upper hand in many ways because Locke's mind is so easy to get into. Considering how willing Ben is to get beaten up by people in return for screwing with their minds for one moment, I don't think that any physical threat on Locke's part would have any effect on Ben, and Locke knows it. So Locke is just marking time while he's trying to figure out what to do with Ben. He tried the trick of bringing Ben food and then taking it away almost immediately when Ben "misbehaved," but in his throwing the tray into the wall when Ben could easily hear it, he showed he couldn't even pull this off successfully. (We might remember that Juliet _was_ able to perform this exact tactic properly with Jack when he was her captive. Like Locke, Juliet has intense emotions. Unlike Locke, Juliet can control them when she has to...)

In Miles' case, he's a small time hustler who's playing a high-stakes game for maybe the first time in his life, and he's finding he's in way over his head. Hustling little old ladies for their grocery money as he "exorcises evil spirits" for them is right at his level of competence. Miles has seen what he figured was his _Big_Chance_ to make a big score. He's finding out that with the big opportunities come tougher, more desperate opponents, who know how to counter his moves and are willing to play hard.

With Locke, he's put himself up against an opponent for whom desperation has driven him to the very edge of sanity. No matter what Miles does at this point he may not be able to deal effectively with Locke's unpredictability in his current mental state.

But you know, I'm not sure at this point whether Miles is in bigger trouble with Locke... or if Locke is in bigger trouble with Ben...

Locke is a very unstable character.

From day to day we see him in many different roles

Monday: Ready to give up everything and die
Tuesday: Brave leader, doesn't care about trash talk
Wednesday: Afraid of peoples opinion about him, putting up a facade
Thursday: Angry towards his own incompetence in decision making
Friday: Fearless warrior doing whatever he wants
Saturday: The tactician, planning moves and winning
Sunday: Lost

Well, that doesn't really make sense... I mean, Miles would die too. If I was in his situation, I'd probably think that this guy can't really have put a live grenade in my mouth, he's just bluffing... but I would still keep biting down on it, because no way would I ever take the chance.

haha, common sense? on Lost Island? wouldn't that be a relief. common sense would be to torture any other until they give up some secrets, but I haven't seen that yet either.

Hurley is always inadvertently pwning Locke. First he sets up his old boss to make Locke his tool at the box factory, then he sees the cabin, then he lets Kate in on Miles' location.
1st -- a question - What exactly is pwning? I've seen it used before and have no clue what it means.

I'm not sure if the grenade was live.. but either way I'm glad that after all this time, someone is finally asking questions.. Throughout the first few seasons - it was frustrating that no one asked any questions of anyone.. now they're asking. I'm not really all that happy with Locke's methods though - he's just a bit too dictatorish for my liking.

It might be a dud grenade because I dont think he would anyones life in danger like that, anyone could be near that boathouse if and when he drops the grenade.

I think it's a dud grenade too because, Naomi notswithstanding, Locke has a problem with killing people. Most of the time he can't bring himself to do it.

I think he's catching up with Ben in the mind games/manipulation dept. though.