You'd think Locke would have enough tact to at least move far enough away from Ben before erupting into his temper tantrums. Why give Ben the satisfaction? I seem to recall Locke also flipped out once before in the Swan hatch, much to Ben's amusement.

I know. This was the part of the episode I least wanted to see. Sometimes I wonder if the writers make Locke dumb on purpose... why is he turning back into season 2 Locke? Maybe we're just supposed to say that he's so reigned by emotion that he couldn't help himself either time. That seems to make the most sense.

The thing is when you have a bad temper like Locke can have sometimes you don't really control the where of when you get angry. If Locke was in control enough to go somewhere else and throw a fit he'ss never throw the fit in the first place.

Ben didn't seem amused this time, he seemed disappointed.

Sloppy, repetitive writing.

He definitely redeemed himself at the end though!

Sloppy, repetitive writing.

He definitely redeemed himself at the end though!
I don't think it was sloppy writing at all, part of Locke's struggle is that he is gullible, look at how easily he was conned by Kate and Sawyer, and quick to anger. As well as racked with self doubt. He is also the militant badass at the end with Miles, if he was that all the time he wouldn't be interesting. It's the two sides of his nature that make him interesting.

Part of me is disheartened by Lockes behavior as of late. In on hand they paint him to be this messiah like character through episodes like the Brig, and the Man behind the Curtain...Even at the end of Through the Looking Glass...when he knifes Naomi in the back....It seemed like he had purpose...more so than Ben. But so far this season, he is back to his old ways.....He's wasting his time trying to buddy up/impress ben, Hes getting conned by sawyer and kate, hes entrusting Hurley with sensitive information, and he is letting his emotions get the better of him.

Another thing I had noticed is that even after hearing jacobs plea of "help me" ....in THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN he resigned his belief in him and continued accusing Ben of being delusional and being a Liar. Ben of course then shoots him. But then all of a sudden out of no where in "Confirmed Dead" he is reaching out to Jacob and looking for guidance.Why is he so worried about Jacob?....Hasnt he been in commune with the Island to some effect since Crash landing there in Episode 1....

I don't think it was sloppy writing at all, part of Locke's struggle is that he is gullible, look at how easily he was conned by Kate and Sawyer, and quick to anger.It was very poorly written. They even had him use the tired cliche "I know what you're doing, and it's not going to work" right before recycling his tantrum schtick from Season 2.

His character is no longer being developed. The writers just have him revert to whichever mode (wise prophet, angry madman, bald chef) is most convenient for the current episode's plot. He's become a simple plot-delivery device.

Does the mirroring of this scene with the scene in season 2 now mean that someone will devise a scheme to get inside the room to question Ben which will then lead to a situation where someone gets shot and killed unintentionally?:confused:

Kate did devise a scheme, Ben was questioned: "Do you know who I am?" - same question Kate asked the questioner - and got-them-from-him-once-before Sawyer now knows where John keeps his gun.

Sloppy writing?

I don't think so.

I thought that too, but obviously he has some real issues with his anger. He couldn't hold on despite knowing that his freakout would make Ben happy.

Unless he knew it would tick Ben off and did it on purpose.

I believe Locke is very frustrated because he still doesn't know all the secrets of the island. He feels he SHOULD know them because he also thinks he is the ONE. But I think he is misinterpreting the clues... Locke is not the one. He is the messenger. He is for the real one like Richard was for Ben.

Unless he knew it would tick Ben off and did it on purpose.
Why would it tick Ben off? It's exactly what he wants; to get to Locke and make him crazy.

I really disliked the tantrum at first but now I'm loving it.

I love that our heroes (or anti-hereos) are all very, very flawed and struggling with their own demons while they try to do what they think/feel is right. There's something epic in the struggle to be in control while really controlling nothing.

That Locke is so unstable, so emotionally raw is fantastic and gives his character some real depth.

I don't think this is bad writing. Locke's history shows that he has an anger management issue (remember he met Helen in anger management classes). He has shown his temper on the Island most notably after he has lost some of his faith. I think it is highly unrealistic to expect him to never have a temper again, just because he has a destiny on the Island. He knew what Ben was doing but it still got the better of him. He's much scarier now than he was in season 2 since now he has more of a god-complex since he is the de factor leader of Otherville.

I think that Locke is a remarkably complex character. He's an insecure, wild-eyed dreamer, and has been a loser all his life. He's arrived at this mysterious place where the wild-eyed dreamer can suddenly succeed beyond anything he could have imagined, but he finds that he doesn't yet know how to ride this magical horse that he's discovered. Perhaps it's more like riding a tiger... he doesn't dare fall off...

As we saw with Eko, and perhaps with Ben, the island may favor you at one moment and reject you the next. Until we know what it actually wants, there's a terrible risk. Locke may just be starting to find this out.

Now, I've seen real cases of people being put into a position of responsibility they couldn't handle and becoming completely different people (and not in a complimentary way...) under the stress. When that position of responsibility involves leadership, the situation can become a total nightmare for the underlings. Locke at this point seems to be an extreme example of this kind of crisis, moving toward the very brink of sanity, and I doubt he's come near enough to the edge yet that Hurley would be so sorry that he went with Locke and not with Jack. I'd suspect that things will get a lot worse for Team Locke before they get better...

I think that Locke was playing games with Ben, and that's why he threw that tray right outside the door, he wants Ben to think that he's losing control, when in fact, he is in more control than he has ever been. Locke is no idiot, he knows about the head games that Ben plays.

Better watch out when Locke gets angry

He threw the tray so hard to the cement wall, it started to wobble.

I think that Locke was playing games with Ben, and that's why he threw that tray right outside the door, he wants Ben to think that he's losing control, when in fact, he is in more control than he has ever been. Locke is no idiot, he knows about the head games that Ben plays.I was hoping that we'd find out in the end that Locke did it on purpose, that he wanted Ben to think that he's loosing it. I wanted to see that Locke's stupidity has its limits, but sadly enough, that didn't happen. It's weird that Locke refuses to negotiate with his friends, but can be so easily manipulated by people like Ben and Cooper, and he takes orders from the Island and Taller Ghost Walt, even killing Naomi. Even if Locke thinks (quite correctly, in my opinion) that the Island is special, and has a mind of its own, I can't see how that would mean that Taller Ghost Walt and Jacob are good, or reliable sources of information.

I don't think this is bad writing. Locke's history shows that he has an anger management issue (remember he met Helen in anger management classes). He has shown his temper on the Island most notably after he has lost some of his faith. I think it is highly unrealistic to expect him to never have a temper again, just because he has a destiny on the Island. He knew what Ben was doing but it still got the better of him. He's much scarier now than he was in season 2 since now he has more of a god-complex since he is the de factor leader of Otherville. I agree. Locke was a weak man before coming to the island, and he has developed in some respects, but still has a long way to go. I didn't like the grenade thing, it was very unpleasant. They say that you can judge a society according to the way it treats it's prisoners...and in this respect, Locke's little group is starting to look worse than the Others.

Better watch out when Locke gets angry

He threw the tray so hard to the cement wall, it started to wobble. :biggrin:

Hard as it was to watch John loose it where Ben could hear him - tsk! :rolleyes: Johnathan! (you made me put my chiding face on and get my wagging finger out)

I think the man deserves credit for what he didn't do: didn't hit Ben with the tray, didn't YELL stupid threats he couldn't follow through, didn't trash Ben's house in a hissy fit strop, didn't bawl out the neighbours for some imagined slight and didn't cry.

He vented on an inanimate object, slammed a door - and walked it off.

I can't buy the grenade routine as anything other than funny as hell. Unless it's more to his credit. He tried the softly softly approach with Ben and it didn't work - his change of tack with Miles shows he's still adaptable.

I think that Locke is a remarkably complex character. He's an insecure, wild-eyed dreamer, and has been a loser all his life. He's arrived at this mysterious place where the wild-eyed dreamer can suddenly succeed beyond anything he could have imagined

Well put. Locke has wanted to be "special" all his life, and now he finds himself in a place where he is told that he is. He is such a fascinating combination of toughness and fragility. I wouldn't call it so much a "temper tantrum" as I would his frustrations and feelings of inadequacy coming out. I assumed he thought those doors were thicker than they are--I don't think he meant for Ben to hear him break down.

Sloppy, repetitive writing.

He definitely redeemed himself at the end though!

Couldn't agree more.

Continually depicting Locke as easily manipulated was not sloppy - it's a part of his character. Throwing kitchen utensils around has been done before though, and while the writers no doubt wanted to show him as frustrated by Ben as he was in season 2, they contrived a sloppy way in which to show it on screen.

Well put. Locke has wanted to be "special" all his life, and now he finds himself in a place where he is told that he is. He is such a fascinating combination of toughness and fragility. I wouldn't call it so much a "temper tantrum" as I would his frustrations and feelings of inadequacy coming out. I assumed he thought those doors were thicker than they are--I don't think he meant for Ben to hear him break down.

I think we agree. I'm sure he wouldn't want Ben to hear the crash, but when someone smashes food into a wall, I doubt that they're doing any reasoned thinking as to whether or not they're far enough away to be heard. A person may break a dish in controlled conditions in order to relieve pent-up stress, or they may hurl a tray in a rage because they're out of control.

Locke was out of control.

I believe Locke is very frustrated because he still doesn't know all the secrets of the island. He feels he SHOULD know them because he also thinks he is the ONE. But I think he is misinterpreting the clues... Locke is not the one. He is the messenger. He is for the real one like Richard was for Ben.

Exactly, Ben is not the messiah. He is JOHN the baptist more than likely, and he must accept that. Perhaps he is even like Aaron, needing to accept he is not Moses. Moses/the Messiah is probably Walt or Aaron (claire's aaron) and Locke must lead him

I was confused by his throwing the tray just outside the door. He acted in control in front of Ben then lost it a few feet away. Why not throw the tray right in front of Ben?

I was confused by his throwing the tray just outside the door. He acted in control in front of Ben then lost it a few feet away. Why not throw the tray right in front of Ben?

While it's subject to interpretation, it's perfectly consistent with someone who knows he needs to stay under control and is trying, but who eventually fails anyway.

Exactly, Ben is not the messiah. He is JOHN the baptist more than likely, and he must accept that. Perhaps he is even like Aaron, needing to accept he is not Moses. Moses/the Messiah is probably Walt or Aaron (claire's aaron) and Locke must lead him
I agree that Aaron has to play a big part in the story eventually, perhaps together with Sun's child. Imagine if she gives birth to a baby girl, could they be destined to become some kind of New Age Adam and Eve?
We have the Eden already...;)

Anyways, the 'one', according to my personal ideas, would be no other than...

Jack Sheppard.

Why? Well, we know the importance of Jack within the show. But what really makes me think of this as a very firm possibilitiy is the fact that Jack was the first one to see a dead parent on the island. Now tell me, who else saw a dead parent as soon as he stepped on the island and later on was chosen by the 'natives' as a leader????

BEN.

I was confused by his throwing the tray just outside the door. He acted in control in front of Ben then lost it a few feet away. Why not throw the tray right in front of Ben?

That is actually a very accurate portrayal of somebody like Locke. I am sure he was trying to hold it together as long as he could, but then he get's overwhelmed as soon as he gets out of the cell.

As we saw at the end of the episode Locke may be moving into a "strong" and "in control" phase again. Perhaps that will lead him back to Jacob...

They say that you can judge a society according to the way it treats it's prisoners...and in this respect, Locke's little group is starting to look worse than the Others.

Eh, I don't think so. The Others are WAY worse.

Ben performed a genocide rather than take prisoners.

Goodwin killed a prisoner.

etc...

I don't believe Team Locke have killed one of their prisoners. Sure, Sawyer killed Mr. Friendly and Locke's dad. But that wasn't Team Locke's doing, it was Sawyer's choice.