Okay, forewarning, I'm a Skater, so obviously I wasn't too thrilled with the events that unfolded in Eggtown, but I am also a realist and I have always had the understanding that Kate and Jack will end up together by the end of the series.

That said, it was still super frustrating to see Kate being such a punk to Sawyer and not only using him more, but lying, c***-blocking, and doing her usual back and forth game.

Sawyer called it, showing his standard intelligence of the whole situation, but it's still lame how she keeps messing with him. I think it was totally fair for him to call her out. Sometimes it seems like the writers want us to think Kate's such a tough, kick-*** woman she can use a guy and not tell him why and toy with him...but dang, that ain't what I consider being a strong woman. It seems weak to me that she keeps jumping from man to man.

My final straw was when she said "Would it be the worst thing in the world?" when Sawyer was so relieved she wasn't pregnant. Yes! It would! 2 fugitives trying to have a baby on an island where pregnant women die? Duh.

One positive thing for Kate this episode...the final 1 second of the show, realizing that she had taken Aaron as her own child (assuming it was for good reasons).

I agree. I think she has always been a very selfish character. I think the whole thing about bring Miles to Ben was just wrong. Locke has reason to banish her. The people coming to the island would seem obviously bad to me. They come with guns, gas masks, bullet proof vests and won't really tell me why they are there. I don't think Locke is doing everything right, but letting him talk to Ben would be an obvious bad idea.

I dont really know about the whole taking Aaron thing. I mean, she seemed almost jealous of Claire near the begining, and then she bam. She has him at the end. Makes me really wonder...

It amuses me that jaters hate Kate when she's being a meanie to Jack and skaters hate her when she's being a meanie to Sawyer, but in between she's just a poor little victim of each guy as they're both blamed for treating her badly.

I'm neither and the one thing I hate most about her is how she's always been written.

Take the scene with Diane. Erm... am I the only one who thinks Diane had a bit of a good reason to call the cops and be generally miffed at her for you know... blowing up everything a poor waitress owned and a husband who might have been an abusive, horrible, horrible man but was still a human being?

Yeah! The scene with Diane was interesting...Kate showed such a lack of gratitude for her deciding not to testify. I've always sided with Kate that her mom showed a huge lack of judgment for allowing Kate to be around Wayne as a kid. But at this point, with so much to lose, why not share the grandmother with grandson?

And yeah, I agree that Kate's character has always been somewhat selfish, especially in the relationships. It's too bad, since it feels her character also appeals enough to everyone for her to be the female lead, who naturally we want desparately to be happy. Strange dichotomy.

My final straw was when she said "Would it be the worst thing in the world?" when Sawyer was so relieved she wasn't pregnant. Yes! It would! 2 fugitives trying to have a baby on an island where pregnant women die? Duh.

Yeah, I didn't get that at all. It's so obviously right to be relieved that I assume that there is information there that we don't have yet.

I don't liked Kate's acting in this epsiode not at all.

I used to like Kate. Not anymore. Can't make up her mind. Judgmental always with a selfish agenda, always running. Completely contrary. Jack says A she does B. Sawyer says stay she leaves. She has the "wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member disease." I am all for Kate doing whats best for Kate. Heck that is what I love about Sawyer. She seems wishy washy to a fault.

Sawyer called it, showing his standard intelligence of the whole situation, but it's still lame how she keeps messing with him. I think it was totally fair for him to call her out.

Sawyer was completely clueless. There is only one thing that explains all of Kate's actions. She is pregnant, or strongly believes she is, and is figuring out what the best thing to do for the baby is. And she found out: There is no real chance of her disguising who she is if she gets rescued, and Sawyer has absolutely no interest in being a father. She can't stay on the island to just die, so now she's going back to get off the island, face trial, and raise her child the best she can.

How and why she ends up with Aaron is a completely different question.

How can Kate piss you off after seeing her lying on Sawyers bed like that. Most woman wouldn't look that good after what she has been through.

Yeah. She's bugging me too. Full disclosure: I'm a skater. Although I'm starting to think maybe I really just love Sawyer and want him to find happiness and if that is with Kate then that's what I want for him. :undecide:
I've been really unhappy with the way their relationship has played out - especially lately.
I agree about the pregnancy scare - Sawyer was right to be relieved and Kate should realize that. However, Sawyer could have been a little less celebratory of the fact and sensitive to Kate's obviously somewhat ambiguous feelings about it. Maybe Kate was thinking if she was pregnant that Sawyer would want to leave the island with her (since she would die if she stayed) and they could go play house for real in the real world (assuming she could find a way out of her legal troubles). Sawyer didn't seem to consider that thought.

Having said all that, though, Kate has not been forthright in sharing her feelings with Sawyer and continues to use him whenever she needs something. Sawyer has her completely pegged in that she comes to him whenever she's upset and wants to feel better (uses him for physical closeness) but yet she never opens up to him and always runs back to Jack, only to bounce back to Sawyer as soon as Jack upsets her or when she needs Sawyer for something.

Kate is very duplicitous. She always has her own agenda and everything she does seems geared toward that agenda. She also has major trust issues (understandable). Aside from her mother, she seems to have healthy and normal relationships with other women - she and Sun are pretty close and she and Claire seem to get along well also. But with men, she seems to have a constant push/pull dynamic going. She seems to have some sort of emotional bond with Jack, but yet she never opens up emotionally with him. She keeps him at arms length both physically and emotionally. With Sawyer, she lets him get close physically, but still maintains a somewhat emotional distance - though Sawyer is pretty d*mn good at reading her a lot of the time. She's strong and independent and always wants to be included in the "guy stuff", but can neither trust or be real with men.

Bah! I have no clue, I'm just babbling trying to make sense of her. Kate has been losing a lot of her appeal for me because I really don't like the way she has acted during a lot of season three and now season four. Maybe it's not fair to feel that way since she seems to just be behaving as her true self. But given the whole notion of people on the island changing and finding redemption, learning from their past...Kate just doesn't seem to be doing the same. (With the exception of her becoming responsible enough to raise a child and stay put in a stable home for him {which I guess is pretty big}.)
I guess I just wish that she would treat Sawyer better and stop using him. Sawyer has been making a lot of progress on his evolvement and it is painful to watch him get hurt by her all the time. :frown:

It sure seems to me that whomever trusts Kate w/their heart, mostly just bleeds. I def worry for poor defenseless Aaron. James seems strong enough that he can give up on her & continue down his path of redemption, but Jack apparently doesn't.

I'm glad Locke banished her. He's like "I can't have this girl whoring herself around here everyday, it distracts from the work I supposedly have to do." Banish her to the docks.

"Would it be the worst thing in the world" ? Ummm.....ya Kate pretty close. 2 cons trying to raise a kid on an island where pregnant women die. Thats pretty close to a "worst" situation. What do you think ?

Locke's gone all Captain Bligh, and more people seem to be complaining about Kate than him... interesting.

Don't get me started on Locke! :insane:

This was a Kate episode, so that's why we're focusing on her...and I'll add one more grievance to our list here:

Why did she risk taking Miles to Ben just to have him tell her what he knows about her? Why didn't she demand that Miles help her stowaway somehow? That would be her best bet of getting off the island and starting a new life.

Also, I'm in agreement that Sawyer should keep on his path of redemption, even if that means losing Kate, who seemed to make him happy (half the time). Her character came off as arrogant toward him. Why should he have to worry about her feeling sensitive to NOT being pregnant...shouldn't she also have to worry about his feelings if she IS? They've done some good scenes showing they care for each other, but in this epi it felt that they both couldn't quite dish out the love. Sawyer did his bit, but he got impatient when she wasn't reciprocating..and I don't just mean sex, I mean showing any sign of opening up, sharing her feelings, working on progressing their friendship/relationship. She just pointed and blamed...exactly what he called her on.

Yeah. She's bugging me too. Full disclosure: I'm a skater. Although I'm starting to think maybe I really just love Sawyer and want him to find happiness and if that is with Kate then that's what I want for him. :undecide:
I've been really unhappy with the way their relationship has played out - especially lately.
I agree about the pregnancy scare - Sawyer was right to be relieved and Kate should realize that. However, Sawyer could have been a little less celebratory of the fact and sensitive to Kate's obviously somewhat ambiguous feelings about it. Maybe Kate was thinking if she was pregnant that Sawyer would want to leave the island with her (since she would die if she stayed) and they could go play house for real in the real world (assuming she could find a way out of her legal troubles). Sawyer didn't seem to consider that thought.

Having said all that, though, Kate has not been forthright in sharing her feelings with Sawyer and continues to use him whenever she needs something. Sawyer has her completely pegged in that she comes to him whenever she's upset and wants to feel better (uses him for physical closeness) but yet she never opens up to him and always runs back to Jack, only to bounce back to Sawyer as soon as Jack upsets her or when she needs Sawyer for something.

Kate is very duplicitous. She always has her own agenda and everything she does seems geared toward that agenda. She also has major trust issues (understandable). Aside from her mother, she seems to have healthy and normal relationships with other women - she and Sun are pretty close and she and Claire seem to get along well also. But with men, she seems to have a constant push/pull dynamic going. She seems to have some sort of emotional bond with Jack, but yet she never opens up emotionally with him. She keeps him at arms length both physically and emotionally. With Sawyer, she lets him get close physically, but still maintains a somewhat emotional distance - though Sawyer is pretty d*mn good at reading her a lot of the time. She's strong and independent and always wants to be included in the "guy stuff", but can neither trust or be real with men.

Bah! I have no clue, I'm just babbling trying to make sense of her. Kate has been losing a lot of her appeal for me because I really don't like the way she has acted during a lot of season three and now season four. Maybe it's not fair to feel that way since she seems to just be behaving as her true self. But given the whole notion of people on the island changing and finding redemption, learning from their past...Kate just doesn't seem to be doing the same. (With the exception of her becoming responsible enough to raise a child and stay put in a stable home for him {which I guess is pretty big}.)

Excellent analysis, emma. She's not winning any points with me either. She had seemed to make some progress on self-awareness with Left Behind last year during her trek to Otherville, where she started to realize that her actions have consequences for other people that she cares about. But upon return to the beach just became a ping-pong again with her conflicted feelings for the two men.
I hope Sawyer has the dignity to kick her to the curb if she bounces back to him in a little bit as predicted. That's the only way he's going to ultimately get any respect from her.

Excellent analysis, emma. She's not winning any points with me either. She had seemed to make some progress on self-awareness with Left Behind last year during her trek to Otherville, where she started to realize that her actions have consequences for other people that she cares about. But upon return to the beach just became a ping-pong again with her conflicted feelings for the two men.
I hope Sawyer has the dignity to kick her to the curb if she bounces back to him in a little bit as predicted. That's the only way he's going to ultimately get any respect from her.

Thanks, workingmom. Kate can be such an enigma at times, it's hard to figure her out.
I totally agree with you about Left Behind. I, too, really thought she was smacked upside the head with a big lesson in that one, only to find that she has reverted back to her impulsive ways of diving in and doing things that further her agenda, without considering the bigger picture and how her actions might affect others. She can be very selfish in that regard.
Maybe the whole point of this FF is to show us that she HAS finally grown - she now dedicates her life to raising a child, has commited to staying in one place and is putting someone else's needs before her own. :shrug:


The bedroom scene with Sawyer plays out in either of two ways, in my opinion. Either Kate wasn't giving Sawyer any nookie because she had actually gotten her period, hence her seeming confidence in saying she wasn't worried about being pregnant. And his reaction bothered her because, even though in the past she hasn't wanted to be a mom, she still has hope of being a mom SOMEDAY, or at least is warming to the idea.
OR, by now, she does believe or know that she IS pregnant and was testing Sawyer's reaction. If he had been more sensitive and showed more of a willingness to become a father, then maybe she would have told him that she IS pregnant in the hopes that he would then want to leave the island (since she would die if she stayed) and become a family in the real world. Since he didn't, she figures she HAS to leave anyway and will just raise the baby herself.

Either way, she doesn't earn any points with me, because she's not leveling with him and being honest. She's playing games. Manipulative games.

Edited to add: one other scenario for her not wanting to have sex is that she now knows the risks involved, so doesn't want to tempt fate. But if that were the case, why not simply say to Sawyer, "We can't. You obviously don't want a child, and if I do get pregnant and don't manage to get off this island, I die. So until we can find some birth control or you and me both get off this island....."
Course, there ARE other activities they could enjoy together. :wub: So her total freeze-out doesn't make sense there either.
I don't know. Kate's behavior just isn't making sense to me a lot of the time these days.

I am not a shipper in any way shape or form so I am not biased. I believe they were not intimate because she was "real sure" she wasn't pregnant. I think that's why they were talking about not having sex right before she says those lines about being "really sure".

Kate is on her cycle.

I honestly believe the girl loves them both, and will end up with neither. I believe Jack will die in the last episode, Sawyer sometime before him.

10 Things I Hated About Kate In This Episode:

10. Conned Hugo
9.
100%
10 Things I Hated About Kate In This Episode:

10. Conned Hugo
9. Expected Locke to be reasonable, and also didn't warn anyone that he's being a total dictator.
8. Didn't ask Claire about her feelings about Charlie's death and wouldn't hold her baby!
7. Total beyatch to her mom, when her mom could be her ticket out of jail.
6. Didn't ask Miles if he could help her off the island...only wanted to see if he knows who she was
5. Putting Ben and Miles in the same room
4. Her off-island wardrobe
3. Her off-island attitude was way too tough for someone looking for jury sympathy
2. Using Sawyer to get what she wants, again, and attempting to do it by flirting
1. Slapping Sawyer when she's the one who obviously started the fight and has more reason to be slapped herself

Jack pissed me off more than Kate with his "He doesn't know what he's doing" brush off to Sun's concerns. It said, "I'm right don't argue." And seemed a little insensitive. Sun's natural prenatal concerns are compounded by the fact that pregnant women die on the island and now a group of people on the island who may try to kill them. Jack's "He doesn't know what he's doing" line about Locke seems to cut both ways. While Locke is insecure, on a power trip, and possibly a little crazy, until this episode Jack didn't seriously entertain the idea that the freighties are bad news. At least now he's beginning to get suspicious. And it is a great performance from Matthew Fox to bring out Jack's negative qualities and still make the character sympathetic. When Miles said they compiled files on everyone on flight 815 after they made the phone call I thought it is all Jack's fault. Just kidding. It's actually more a collective fault. If Ben hadn't killed and lied to the losties he would have been listened to, and if Jack and Locke could've worked out their differences the situation at the radio tower may have ended differently.

As far as themes go, I felt like 'dictatorship' was a big one. Locke was definitely showing his stripes, and Jack was also expecting to not be questioned.

And back to Kate: she also was expecting no 'questioning', wanting unconditional love, and not giving anything back in return. She didn't want to tell Sawyer what she was doing there, and wouldn't accept his personal response to her lack of being pregnant. I'm sure we all have our moments of feeling high and mighty in our relationships, but this was just too much all in one episode.

I hate mean Kate! with Sawyer

Sawyer did his bit, but he got impatient when she wasn't reciprocating..and I don't just mean sex, I mean showing any sign of opening up, sharing her feelings, working on progressing their friendship/relationship. She just pointed and blamed...exactly what he called her on.Maybe she doesn't reciprocate his feelings.
She's fond of the guy and all, and there's some sexual chemistry, but I don't think Kate's now or ever been "in love" with him..
Don't bite me, I'm not a Jater either..
100%

The bedroom scene with Sawyer plays out in either of two ways, in my opinion. Either Kate wasn't giving Sawyer any nookie because she had actually gotten her period, hence her seeming confidence in saying she wasn't worried about being pregnant. And his reaction bothered her because, even though in the past she hasn't wanted to be a mom, she still has hope of being a mom SOMEDAY, or at least is warming to the idea.
OR, by now, she does believe or know that she IS pregnant and was testing Sawyer's reaction.
Or she just doesn't want to lead him on...

I can see why Kate using people to get what she wants would be annoying, but Kate has been doing this stuff since season one.

Jack pissed me off more than Kate with his "He doesn't know what he's doing" brush off to Sun's concerns. It said, "I'm right don't argue." And seemed a little insensitive.

Really? I didn't see that at all. Sun had an opinion and Jack had an opinion, that's all. Why can't Jack have an opinion about Locke? I don't think Jack was trying to tell Sun not to argue with him. Jack has a very strong opinion about Locke and Sun knows that. I don't think she felt shut down at all. Sun is no shrinking violet. She is the daughter of a crime lord, and she shot and killed Colleen. If anything, I think Sun is one of the people on the island that Jack respects most, and Jin is always telling Sun to stay close to Jack whenever he's away. If Sun felt intimidated by Jack, which she doesn't, she wouldn't rely on him - and him on her.

That's my opinion anyway.

Sun is no shrinking violet. . If there's a "Cobra" on the show, it's Sun.. who was deceptive and self-centered even as a child.

That's MY opinion.
And it makes me enjoy Sun all the more, I love the sneak...

Kate is very duplicitous. She always has her own agenda and everything she does seems geared toward that agenda. She also has major trust issues (understandable). Aside from her mother, she seems to have healthy and normal relationships with other women - she and Sun are pretty close and she and Claire seem to get along well also. But with men, she seems to have a constant push/pull dynamic going. She seems to have some sort of emotional bond with Jack, but yet she never opens up emotionally with him. She keeps him at arms length both physically and emotionally. With Sawyer, she lets him get close physically, but still maintains a somewhat emotional distance - though Sawyer is pretty d*mn good at reading her a lot of the time. She's strong and independent and always wants to be included in the "guy stuff", but can neither trust or be real with men.

Heh, actually I think that's a really good synopsis of Kate! :) She's vey duplicitous at times, two-faced; she's a Gemini after all. ;) I especially liked that last bit you wrote. Basically, Kate's got some issues, plain and simple. But hey, who doesn't?

I know she gets alot of flack, but I think she's a terrific character, and a great female lead.

I can see why Kate using people to get what she wants would be annoying, but Kate has been doing this stuff since season one.



Really? I didn't see that at all. Sun had an opinion and Jack had an opinion, that's all. Why can't Jack have an opinion about Locke? I don't think Jack was trying to tell Sun not to argue with him. Jack has a very strong opinion about Locke and Sun knows that. I don't think she felt shut down at all. Sun is no shrinking violet. She is the daughter of a crime lord, and she shot and killed Colleen. If anything, I think Sun is one of the people on the island that Jack respects most, and Jin is always telling Sun to stay close to Jack whenever he's away. If Sun felt intimidated by Jack, which she doesn't, she wouldn't rely on him - and him on her.

That's my opinion anyway.
I think cutting her off with "He doesn't know what he's doing" is kind of a rude way to cut her off, for all the reasons I mentioned previously. And, you're right Sun is no shrinking violet which is why she said, then why did Kate stay with Locke, which is a good way to twist in the knife. I think Jack is letting his hatred for Locke cloud his judgement just a little. Like I said it the he doesn't know what he's doing line cuts both ways, in the last episode Jack was already suspicious of the freighties, why take them to the losties camp, of course the freighties are outnumbered and could be easil tied up if they tried anything, but I'm of the belief that the freightastic four as someone called them don't know the full scope of what their group is doing, they have been lied to as well. The true danger lies on that freighter, but that's another post. I think this episode highlighted the flaws and positive aspects of both leaders. And judging from Jack's state of mind in TTLG flashforward he was wrong about the freighter. We found out from Miles that after they made the phone call the freighter has files on everyone on the plane, so making that call was a huge mistake. But this is lost and nothing is simple, as the previous episode and this episode showed not everyone on Team Locke is totally behind him, Hurley deffinitely has issues with Locke's decision and Sun has suspicions and Sayid definitely doesn't trust the freighties. And Jack is definitely beginning to get suspicious, which means he'll come up with a plan to stop the freighties and have it fall apart around him. Just kidding, Matthew Fox is great at playing all sides of Jack's character.

Heh, actually I think that's a really good synopsis of Kate! :) She's vey duplicitous at times, two-faced; she's a Gemini after all. ;) I especially liked that last bit you wrote. Basically, Kate's got some issues, plain and simple. But hey, who doesn't?

I know she gets alot of flack, but I think she's a terrific character, and a great female lead.

I will swallow some of my harsh words from previous posts...it's true that Kate's character is one of the intial grabs that pulls people into the show. I always loved that she was ready for an adventure and was pretty bad-a**. I don't watch any other TV shows, so it's hard for me to remember that compared to most TV, she's pretty dang cool.

But I will say, I think they've struggled to write her in romantic relationships. She's either all sweet and innocent and needy (with Tom and Jack and Kevin), or bit**y and rude (with Sawyer). That shows her Gemini characteristics I suppose, but it's too bad there isn't a happy medium.

no, and neither would she....its TV.

I think cutting her off with "He doesn't know what he's doing" is kind of a rude way to cut her off, for all the reasons I mentioned previously. And, you're right Sun is no shrinking violet which is why she said, then why did Kate stay with Locke, which is a good way to twist in the knife.

Okay, I'm just going to leave it as you and I having completely different opinions of that scene and just leave it at that. I just don't see Sun having a problem with Jack or wanting to "twist a knife."

I think Jack is letting his hatred for Locke cloud his judgement just a little. Like I said it the he doesn't know what he's doing line cuts both ways, in the last episode Jack was already suspicious of the freighties, why take them to the losties camp, of course the freighties are outnumbered and could be easil tied up if they tried anything, but I'm of the belief that the freightastic four as someone called them don't know the full scope of what their group is doing, they have been lied to as well. The true danger lies on that freighter, but that's another post. Yeah, but again, what's the alternative? If Sun stays, she dies. I just don't see how the freighter is more dangerous. Just as 40+ people can fight on the beach, they can fight on the Freighter. I would much rather commandeer a freighter and head for home then stay on Craphole Island with Ben, Smokey, Jacob, the Temple followers, and whatever else awaits them. Also, don't forget that they have stayed on the island for 100+ days, and they have lost how many people? How is staying safer?

I think this episode highlighted the flaws and positive aspects of both leaders. I think both men are definitely flawed, but I didn't see any moments where Jack making poor decisions was highlighted in this episode.

And judging from Jack's state of mind in TTLG flashforward he was wrong about the freighter. Well, according to Matthew Fox

He said Jack's FF state of mind has nothing to do with the rescue, and it's about something else entirely, which makes me really curious.


We found out from Miles that after they made the phone call the freighter has files on everyone on the plane, so making that call was a huge mistake.

But we already knew that Ben had files on everyone on the plane from season three. Remember when he told Mikhail to get files on everyone? Nothing about the 815ers is a secret. We learned that last year.

It's unfortunate. I really liked Kate in S1 but anymore she's just not likeable. Gorgeous, but not likeable. But then in the flashforwards she seems like a different person again. Maybe it's the island.

It's unfortunate. I really liked Kate in S1 but anymore she's just not likeable. Gorgeous, but not likeable. But then in the flashforwards she seems like a different person again. Maybe it's the island.
I could understand Kate's behavior in this episode, with the possiblity of rescue imminent the fear of prison is a reality, where on the island she was free. As for the flashforward, everyone's life is in shambles I think that the message is the Oceanic 6 made a mistake by leaving the island.

It amuses me that jaters hate Kate when she's being a meanie to Jack and skaters hate her when she's being a meanie to Sawyer, but in between she's just a poor little victim of each guy as they're both blamed for treating her badly.

I'm neither and the one thing I hate most about her is how she's always been written.

Take the scene with Diane. Erm... am I the only one who thinks Diane had a bit of a good reason to call the cops and be generally miffed at her for you know... blowing up everything a poor waitress owned and a husband who might have been an abusive, horrible, horrible man but was still a human being?Couldn't have put it better. She blew up her house and her husband. The extent of their problems weren't examined in depth in that episode too which made Kate's rash decision (to put it mildly) all the more contemptible.

All we're given to invest in her is her sense of injustice at the law, you know, punishing those who murder, blow up houses, rob banks, shoot people and being a general burden for everyone who meets her.

"Why shouldn't you go to prison Kate?"
"Well, prison doesn't fit into my plans."

Until the character starts taking LARGE chunks of responsibility for what she has done in her life, I won't invest in her. Heck, even Juliet had more justification and back-story to at least give her an intriguing character, if not a likable one.
And I totally agree, Kate had that in large portions pre-"What Kate Did"

Couldn't have put it better. She blew up her house and her husband. The extent of their problems weren't examined in depth in that episode too which made Kate's rash decision (to put it mildly) all the more contemptible.

All we're given to invest in her is her sense of injustice at the law, you know, punishing those who murder, blow up houses, rob banks, shoot people and being a general burden for everyone who meets her.

"Why shouldn't you go to prison Kate?"
"Well, prison doesn't fit into my plans."

Until the character starts taking LARGE chunks of responsibility for what she has done in her life, I won't invest in her. Heck, even Juliet had more justification and back-story to at least give her an intriguing character, if not a likable one.
And I totally agree, Kate had that in large portions pre-"What Kate Did"
I'm not a shipper. I found myself agreeing with Sawyer when he said go back to Jack but you'll be back when you find a reason to make him angry. That's what she does because she can't decide what she wants.

I don't think she wants either of them, to be honest.

I don't think she wants either of them, to be honest.


C'mon, she wants Jack; things just keep getting in the way. ;)

C'mon, she wants Jack; things just keep getting in the way. ;)Ha! :) Maybe she's just not that good in bed... and doesn't want him to find out. I can't imagine Sawyer's standards are too high. ;)

C'mon, she wants Jack; things just keep getting in the way. ;)
of course she wants Jack. She wants what she doesn't have. This is not love. Kate only loves herself and doesn't respect them. What a cool character! :)

Kate's behavior in her FF made total sense to me. Right now, Aaron (as her adopted son) is the top priority in her life, and Kate will do whatever she has to in order to protect him.

If that means keeping Diane (whom she no longer trusts) away from her son, or acting like a dictator toward her lawyer (so she doesn't wind up in jail, leaving Aaron to be raised by the nanny) - - then Kate won't back down, no matter how much of an "attitude" it makes her appear to have.

It's unfortunate. I really liked Kate in S1 but anymore she's just not likeable. Gorgeous, but not likeable. But then in the flashforwards she seems like a different person again. Maybe it's the island.I think it's the writers - they like to make a hate a character, then turn it around and explain their actions later, making us doubt our first impressions. I generally love that about this show, but in this instance, it's like Kate regressed back to S1 Kate, with no character growth, in order to contrast that with the FF where she finally stopped being selfish - and stopped running - because she cared for someone else (Aaron).



If that means keeping Diane (whom she no longer trusts) away from her son.You know, you're the first person I've seen point that out. Up till now I thought she'd been pretty bitchy to her mom, but you've got a point. Why would she want a woman who exposed her own child, Kate, to her abusive relationship with Wayne, and possibly exposed her to unwanted sexual advances from Wayne, around her own child? Kate was wrong to blow up her dad. Very, very wrong. But I can see how she wouldn't want her mom around her child, either. Her mom didn't protect her, and as you pointed out, Kate's doing the opposite - risking her own freedom to protect Aaron, who she now considers her son.

Why would she want a woman who exposed her own child, Kate, to her abusive relationship with Wayne, and possibly exposed her to unwanted sexual advances from Wayne, around her own child? Kate was wrong to blow up her dad. Very, very wrong. But I can see how she wouldn't want her mom around her child, either. Her mom didn't protect her,


Protect Kate from whom? Wayne? Judging from what I had seen in "What Kate Did", Kate didn't need protection from Wayne. She had seemed to harbor a contempt for him and dislike for abusing Diane.

I think it's the writers - they like to make a hate a character, then turn it around and explain their actions later, making us doubt our first impressions. I generally love that about this show, but in this instance, it's like Kate regressed back to S1 Kate, with no character growth, in order to contrast that with the FF where she finally stopped being selfish - and stopped running - because she cared for someone else (Aaron).


You know, you're the first person I've seen point that out. Up till now I thought she'd been pretty vincenty to her mom, but you've got a point. Why would she want a woman who exposed her own child, Kate, to her abusive relationship with Wayne, and possibly exposed her to unwanted sexual advances from Wayne, around her own child? Kate was wrong to blow up her dad. Very, very wrong. But I can see how she wouldn't want her mom around her child, either. Her mom didn't protect her, and as you pointed out, Kate's doing the opposite - risking her own freedom to protect Aaron, who she now considers her son.

While I find Kate inaccessible in the last two seasons, I do think you've hit on a point Tross that makes sense to me. Kate in Eggtown is all about protecting Aaron and I think she has a legitimate idea that her mom wouldn't be the best person to do that given her track record with Kate. Conversely, I think Kate was totally presumptuous to kill her father -- her mother after all loved him even if the relationship was unhealthy. You can't make decisions for someone you love even when you believe what you think is best. I think in some ways Kate and her mom are a lot alike. Diane only had something to give Wayne and Kate got left out in the cold and the rage that long-term rejection engenders isn't something you easily forget, nor is it something you would consider exposing a child to. From Kate's perspective I could see how she'd think that Diane would want to be around Aaron to make herself feel better rather than by wanting what is best for him and I think she fears being manipulated and ala Jack she ends things when the manipulation knife twists, "we're done here"...

I wish that TPTB would put in a scene or two that make Kate more understandable and less opaque, but I'm afraid that that ship has sailed and its a shame. Maybe down the road I'll be able to watch the series in sequence and more dispassionately and I'll understand her better, I doubt it, but I hope so.

squid

While I find Kate inaccessible in the last two seasons, I do think you've hit on a point Tross that makes sense to me. Kate in Eggtown is all about protecting Aaron and I think she has a legitimate idea that her mom wouldn't be the best person to do that given her track record with Kate. Conversely, I think Kate was totally presumptuous to kill her father -- her mother after all loved him even if the relationship was unhealthy. You can't make decisions for someone you love even when you believe what you think is best. I think in some ways Kate and her mom are a lot alike. Diane only had something to give Wayne and Kate got left out in the cold and the rage that long-term rejection engenders isn't something you easily forget, nor is it something you would consider exposing a child to. From Kate's perspective I could see how she'd think that Diane would want to be around Aaron to make herself feel better rather than by wanting what is best for him and I think she fears being manipulated and ala Jack she ends things when the manipulation knife twists, "we're done here"...

I wish that TPTB would put in a scene or two that make Kate more understandable and less opaque, but I'm afraid that that ship has sailed and its a shame. Maybe down the road I'll be able to watch the series in sequence and more dispassionately and I'll understand her better, I doubt it, but I hope so.

squid

I think you all have good points as to why Kate wouldn't want Diane to have access to Aaron. In addition, I think there was another motive - as usual, Kate has dual motives, which is to even keep Diane from seeing the child at all, even for a 10-minute meeting. Kate is apparently passing Aaron off as her natural child, and I think Diane would be able to tell right away that he wasn't. Kate needs to maintain the false story that's been put together for whatever reason, and she fears her cover may be blown if Diane were to figure it out. And how ironic for Diane, who kept her own daughter's true parentage from her all her life.

Yeah, if Diane saw Aaron, there'd be the normal grandma-type questions...who's nose is this? Why are his eyes blue? Etc...

Also, we know that Diane was a bad mother to expose Kate to her relationship with Wayne (and even though Wayne never "touched" Kate, he was sexually abusive in his passes to her). However, Kate being pissed at her mom for this never came up before...she always gave her mom a pass, and seemed surprised when Diane told her, at the diner, "you can't help who you love." She really felt she was doing her mom a favor and that her mom would reciprocate by being happy that she was freed from the abuse. It seems that Kate's acknowledgement of Diane's passive acceptance of her situation has been slowly building throughout the series, and wasn't an ingrained feeling before she killed Wayne. I would hope the writers would throw in a line like, "After how you let me be raised, I'll be damned to let you near my son...." or something, to make it clear that that was her motive to keeping them apart. But, after the final scene, I really felt it was more a precaution to not Diane see Aaron.
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I also wanted to share my theory about why Kate has Aaron:

I think she may have either stolen him from the island, or taken him in a desparate moment when Claire was in danger too. I think things will go sour with Locke, and Kate will convince Jack that they need to save people from him, or perhaps Sawyer leads a charge against Locke and tries to get people out of there,and Jack helps Kate take Aaron. That's why Jack feels weird around Aaron. I think Claire won't be killed, because we still have the "raised by another" prophecy that will need to be explained, plus Claire and Jack being related. If Claire had been killed I don't think Jack would feel as weird.

Seeing Jack ask Kate for coffee was so...cliche, and boring. Too normal for this show.