So, going back to Confirmed Dead, when we see Daniel in the past crying without knowing why.

I'm thinking he also gets "unstuck" in time at some point and perhaps that was him traveling back but having forgotten that in the future he knows the Oceanic people. Hence the emotional reaction without consciously knowing why. After all, when Desmond was traveling he forgot about everything on the island. Daniel could too.

Also, could his memory problems be a result of his experimentation with radiation or electromagnetism in his lab? Maybe he is partially unstuck already.

absolutely...

Woh...

This episode blew my mind! And I like this theory, Kate!

I guess I'd be a bit wiggy if "it" were happening to me too!

Yeah, he first asked Jack is Des has been exposed to radiation. Des also asked why Daniel didn't protect his head from constant radiation exposure.

Man, I'm going to be up all night pondering this episode!

Okay, but wouldn't we have seen Daniel "going out", just as Desmond did, visibly "blacking out". At least that's how it would look to, say, Jack and Kate or Juliet- the people who've been with him.

Is it because he saw Desmond, his constant, fairly soon after?

I'm not sure. I think this has something to do with his reaction in his flashback, but I'm not sure that it means he's already experienced what Desmond has.

Faraday is asked by des why doesn't he protect his head. I think he's the magic to figuring it all out, but because he didn't protect his head in early years of experiments he is loosing his faculties. This is a crossroads. Is Faraday brilliant and will figure it out or is he too far gone, mentally and will cause destruction?

Or can he go back and reclaim his brilliance? Perhap that's the gig.

I'm amazed we got such a huge clue as to what was going on with Daniel so quick. Usually they make us suffer for longer.
So he never protected his head from
100%
I'm amazed we got such a huge clue as to what was going on with Daniel so quick. Usually they make us suffer for longer.

I missed that. When did Des ask him that?

I missed that. When did Des ask him that?

Right before he zapped the rat, he put on that tan colored thing, but nothing on his head. He said it was to protect him.

Yes, I think his radiation exposure will be important in his memory loss or something like that.

Radiation protective gear usually aims to protect primarily things like reproductive tissues and the thymus, which are the most susceptible to radiation damage.

The CNS tissues (ie. the brian) are the least sensitive (that's why you don't need headgear when you get an x-ray) but with prolonged exposure/ high enough doses they most certainly can be damaged.

No wonder Naomi called him a "head case" Poor guy. :(

So Faraday melts his own brain and perhaps now can't help anyone.

Does anyone think Desmond being Faraday's constant has something to do with his (seemingly) inexplicable crying in Confirmed Dead? I know Desmond wasn't on 815, but still, it seems like it is the only connection Daniel would have had to the island.

I think that his tears were probably him returning from a time jump, not a reaction to the news on the TV. That's how I see it at least.

I think that his tears were probably him returning from a time jump, not a reaction to the news on the TV. That's how I see it at least.

In light of tonight's episode this makes sense.

I was thinking that Dan was frustrated becasue he came bacl from the future to that point but couldn't remember what happened next and vice versa.

In Eggtown he couldn't remember the three cards although he should have becasue it was something from his past. :confused:

Is it because he saw Desmond, his constant, fairly soon after?

I'm not sure. I think this has something to do with his reaction in his flashback, but I'm not sure that it means he's already experienced what Desmond has.This is what I'm assuming. Maybe his blacking out has gotten better since arriving on the island. :shrug:

My question is "Why IS Desmond Dan's constant?" Dan said you had to find someone or something you really cared about to be your constant...?

I forget,

did Daniel say it had to be something you cared about, or that it just had to be something that was present in both the past and future?

I think after Daniel meets Desmond (and Desmond tells him that he knows him in the future) Daniel is able to figure out that in the future the same thing may happen to him and that he will need a link. Since he knows Desmond in the future (and now knows him in the past) Desmond is suitable. Maybe Daniel has heard of the island and its effects and figures out from Desmond's situation that he too may possibly be there someday in the same situation.

This is what I'm assuming. Maybe his blacking out has gotten better since arriving on the island. :shrug:

My question is "Why IS Desmond Dan's constant?" Dan said you had to find someone or something you really cared about to be your constant...?

Maybe the Des in 1996, after finding his constant, went back and spent time with Dan, researching.

Anyway, I'm totally backing the idea that Dan got "unstuck" himself and that's why he had the odd reaction to the footage of the plane wreck.

Kate, you're right.

Yes, you have to care about your "constant" but obviously Dan will care about Des very, very much if he knows (or will know or has known) that Des is what will enable him to regain his memory or stop being unstuck in time. Right?

Thank you for explaining the crying thing. Obviously if he knows the 815ers already, and then is seeing their crash on tv, he must be quite emotionally affected.

I really like the theory for Dan. Especially the fact that he was taking in the radiation since he didn't have any head protection.
Listening to the crew they said Daniel couldn't even take care of himself. So my guess is to agree he has started to get better once he reached the island/his constant. This would also explain his somewhat strange, a little out of it, behavior early on. He needed a "caretaker" before. Now he's doing better and better. Just not as fast as he would like, as he said per the card experiment, its working just very slowly.
I didn't necessarily think he had to "care" about his constant. That was just important with Desmond to be sure it was still in his life and he could no how to reach i 8 years later.
Just a thought

Ahh, yes, I forgot about the cards. That really adds up, except I think it would be the opposite. I think that he was jumping forward into the future, looking at the three random cards that were put down (that neither of them know) and then coming back and recalling what they were...

Definitely. I think he was crying because he knew it was all true.

Thank you for all who pointed out that Daniel was crying b/c he knew in the future what would happen. One thing I would like to bring up is that something tragic must happen in the future to the island people who he obviously comes to care greatly for. That scene with him crying is actually a lot more powerful and telling knowing that... I love it.

So, going back to Confirmed Dead, when we see Daniel in the past crying without knowing why.

I'm thinking he also gets "unstuck" in time at some point and perhaps that was him traveling back but having forgotten that in the future he knows the Oceanic people. Hence the emotional reaction without consciously knowing why. After all, when Desmond was traveling he forgot about everything on the island. Daniel could too.

I think you are partly correct. The fact is that this happens to all the freighter people, not just Daniel.

Charlotte refuses to believe that the found 815 plane is the real one, despite all evidence to the contrary. It's because she doesn't remember having met the survivors in the future.

Naomi continually asks Abaddon what they should do if they find survivors. Why? The world found the 815 plane, and Abaddon assures her there were no survivors. She seemingly has no reason to believe otherwise, yet she presses the issue.

Frank also has doubts about the veracity of the found 815 plane. Is it really just because the pilot wasn't wearing a wedding ring? I doubt it. Subconsciously he knows much more. I'm sticking with the story that it is Frank himself in the pilot seat at the bottom of the Sunda trench.

I'm not sure about Miles, but I don't think we have quite enough info yet on his "flashback"'s connection to the Losties.

Kate, you're right.

Yes, you have to care about your "constant" but obviously Dan will care about Des very, very much if he knows (or will know or has known) that Des is what will enable him to regain his memory or stop being unstuck in time. Right?

Thank you for explaining the crying thing. Obviously if he knows the 815ers already, and then is seeing their crash on tv, he must be quite emotionally affected.

Not only that, but Desmond helped Dan with his research by proving his theories to be true.

The whole radiation causing memory loss thing explains why he was playing that memory game with Charlotte. He couldn't remember what three playing cards had been laid down only thirty minutes before. Daniel in 1996 also points out that he found it odd that his "future" self didn't remember Des. So, can high amounts of electromagnetism or radiation cause short and long-term memory loss?

Not only that, but Desmond helped Dan with his research by proving his theories to be true.

Good point. Dan was obviously working on a way to send someone consciousness into the future. When Des came to him in 96 claiming to know him in the future, that probably jump started Dan being able to make the machine work.

Why was Dan building that machine anyway?

I'm backing this theory for Dan. It makes so much sense...well, at least as much sense as anything can on this program. ;)

Nothing I've read so far seems to explain why Desmond is his constant, though. I wonder how long we'll have to wait for the answer...

I'm backing this theory for Dan. It makes so much sense...well, at least as much sense as anything can on this program. ;)

Nothing I've read so far seems to explain why Desmond is his constant, though. I wonder how long we'll have to wait for the answer...

The note in his notebook indicated "If something goes wrong". I assume that meant in the mission to go on the island.

What is the only thing that would possibly exist from Dan's past that also exists on the island? Desmond.

The note in his notebook indicated "If something goes wrong". I assume that meant in the mission to go on the island.

What is the only thing that would possibly exist from Dan's past that also exists on the island? Desmond.

That's what I got from it. Like, if he he ended up jumping around in time he already had a note for himself so he would know what to do.

If you're a part of the group that believes Faraday is like Desmond and Minkowski (time displaced, or jumping back and forth)... this episode could go a long way towards our flashback of Faraday crying, and not knowing why. His conscious didn't recognize the history that he would soon have with flight 815.

And it would explain the woman as his caregiver, given he is prone to blacking out etc.

And it would explain the woman as his caregiver, given he is prone to blacking out etc.

if he were prone to blacking out, he would have had nose bleeds and died already.

i don't think that's not why he was crying. he was crying because Oceanic crash/finding hadn't happened yet (thus, his adventure to meet Desmond which he had never known about, YET). But his subconscious somehow experienced sadness knowing he was going to place (the island) that in turn changed his own history (meeting Desmond). does any of what i said make sense? Think about this - if he had met Desmond prior to his trip to the island, Oceanic on TV wouldn't have probably made him cry because it wouldn't be the biggest deal - just get Ben and go. But somewhere, ingrained in his (future history paradox) his own life was changed in a big way and he met his own constant.

What is going on with Daniel Faraday? We've seen him in a flashback in floods of tears, trying to remember 3 cards with charlotte, and now the doctor on the freighter says "faraday can't even help himself". I think Faraday is more than just an eccentric scientist. Is he suffering from side affects of radiation? He was wearing that white vest thing when he was testing Elouise but like Desmond implied, it doesn't seem to be the most protective vest. Maybe because Desmond was exposed to one big burst of radiation and Dan may have been exposed to many more smaller bursts, are the side affects manifesting themselves differently?

Maybe Dan is jumping around through time like Desmond but much less structured and he can't actually remember that he's doing it (unlike Desmond who could remember jumping back and forth). Things that make me think this: Dan in floods of tears, he could have just jumped back and therefore has no idea why he's crying. The thing with the cards, maybe he was trying to test if he'd already experienced that moment and trying to remember the cards before looking at them. And, finally, the "Desmond Hume is my constant" note.

my big question is: "is the Daniel Faraday that we see on the island, a Daniel from the present time, or is it a Daniel from the future, which is why he is such a basket case, until he realizes that Desmond is his Constant?"

It actually sounds quite good for a theory my friend! Love it!

I think we clearly now understand why Daniel is such a "basket case". I'm not sure if having a constant will alleviate that!

I wonder just how long this has been happening to Daniel . . . in 1996, his theories had been pretty well fleshed out.

I think Daniel is a basketcase because his brain is messed up from all the radiation and the not protecting of his head during his experiments. My belief is that this is present day Daniel. We've had no evidence that he blacks out and goes to another time. We should start watching for this though, perhaps.

i don't think that's not why he was crying. he was crying because Oceanic crash/finding hadn't happened yet (thus, his adventure to meet Desmond which he had never known about, YET). But his subconscious somehow experienced sadness knowing he was going to place (the island) that in turn changed his own history (meeting Desmond). does any of what i said make sense? Think about this - if he had met Desmond prior to his trip to the island, Oceanic on TV wouldn't have probably made him cry because it wouldn't be the biggest deal - just get Ben and go. But somewhere, ingrained in his (future history paradox) his own life was changed in a big way and he met his own constant.

Yes that makes sense. I thought that was what I was trying to say. I'd say we're in agreement.

the way i read it was that, based on what was written in faraday's journal at the end, Faraday recognized des, that he knew him though des didn't know faraday yet because he hadn't experienced the jump yet... that faraday cried when he saw the ship because he knew that his fate was tied to it, and that des was tied to it...almost like his fate was sealed when the ship was found...

but i'm still reeling from the epi, and need to watch it a few more times....

Does this mean that Daniel has the time-travelling/radiation sickness? He'd need a caregiver. Would that make his crying at the TV footage about 815 his future consciouness affecting his present (the present in the flashback anyway). Trying the card game with Charlotte and his is-that-an-improvement reaction could have something to do with his fears about the illness and trying to survive it. Now that he's found Desmond, his constant, is he better?

I don't know. Just something that occurred to me...

edit: Thanks to whomever moved my thread and incorporated it into this one---I appreciate it! :D (I feel like a dork when I miss someone else's already-started discussion...)

Yeah I agree that's what his note about Desmond means.

ZotBot

I was just about to post this same question and thought I better check to see if it was posted first.

What I see is that the first flashback of Daniel was really a flashforward to this Daniel we see now. I mean, imagine if you were a physicist studying time space travel, and all of a sudden someone from the future pops into your lab with the exact thing you have been looking for. Wouldnt you be running all kinds of experiments? And the fact that Des told him about the island?

In Confirmed Dead, we see Daniel crying as he watches the news about the remains of Flight 815 being found in the ocean. When his care taker asks what is wrong he says he does not know but he seems to in some ways know why he is crying.

In The Constant, we saw that he made notes in his journal about future events, like writing that Desmond would be his constant.He also knew about the side effects that could happen.

So when he saw the news coverage he knew it was a lie and that is why he was crying. He subconsciously knew why he was crying even though consciously he did not know why. Perhaps he had experienced some sort of a flash about finding the survivors alive on the island.

In other words he is having emotions to a past memory that had not been made yet.

Stacy Lane

This has been bugging me since I saw Confirmed Dead. On the helicopter, when it is going down. There is a lot of confusion, lights, screaming, but Daniel is just kind of sitting there with his mouth open, kind of out of it. They have to physically push him out of the copter. I wondered why he was acting so catatonic. Do you think he might have been boomeranging right then?

This thread seems to dance around this idea, but it seems no one has suggested it outright...

After Dan gets his machine working, and sees the effect it has on people (i.e. Desmond), Desmond goes off to find Penny, then it's back to military life, right? So does Daniel eventually try to use the machine on himself, to see if he can get to the future? If so, he knows he will need a constant, so he makes a note to himself to use Desmond.

So when he starts bouncing back and forth through time, are some of the scenes we've seen of Daniel on the helicopter and on the island actually 1996 Daniel in present-day Daniel's body? Perhaps after reading the note he wrote to himself, he pops back to 1996, and has to track down Desmond, who would either still be in the army or in jail, right?

Just one possibility, I guess.

Anyone else feel like his crying was taken straight out of Donnie Darko? It made more sense in that movie, since it dealt with daughter universes not time travel.

When Desmond meets Daniel at Oxford, Daniel comments that his future self will remember meeting Desmond years earlier. Desmond says no and suggests that Daniel simply forgot.

Daniel says something like, "Yeah right...how would that happen?" Moments later, Desmond points out an obvious flaw in Daniel's protective measures against his experiment...citing that Daniel leaves his head exposed.

On the island, we find out, via 3 cards, that Daniel seems to have a problem remembering things. He also keeps a journal, which would come in pretty handy for someone who couldn't convert short-term to long-term memories very well.

So...

Daniel's experiments will eventually cause him some memory complications so he must resort to recording his thoughts into a journal. Perhaps, this is how Daniel got Desmond's name in his journal, yet did not seem to know him upon meeting.

If nothing else, this would be convenient way to eliminate paradox issues and/or creations of parallel universes.

Yup, pretty much.

I suspect Faraday's memory issues are part of the universal "course correction" to prevent paradox problems.

I suspect Faraday's memory issues are part of the universal "course correction" to prevent paradox problems.
I'm with both you and the OP. The radiation is the means through which the memory loss occurs. The motivation for the memory loss in 'the grand scheme of things' is to prevent paradox problems.

I'm all about the linkage.

i need to watch again to be sure, but it seemed to me when des brought up the lack of head protection, dan made a sort of 'too late/doesn't matter' style gesture... i'm thinking there is already a problem with his brain before then.

Why couldn't Daniel be Eloise's constant? Eloise's death does present a paradox...unless one can "time shift" into the future in which one no longer exists.

Why couldn't Daniel be Eloise's constant? Eloise's death does present a paradox...unless one can "time shift" into the future in which one no longer exists.

Well... it seems that you must know you need a constant, and be able to "get to" your constant in both times. There's no way a rat would know to establish a constant.

Remember when it was revealed that the woman with Daniel in his flashback is his caretaker? Why does he need a caretaker? Why is he crying and doesn't understand his reason for doing so? Brain tumor from prolonged exposure to the radiation in his lab. When he and Charlotte are doing the card memory test, they are simply verifying one of the island's properties--it heals. We've seen it with Locke, Ben alluded to it, and now with Daniel.

Why couldn't Daniel be Eloise's constant? Eloise's death does present a paradox...unless one can "time shift" into the future in which one no longer exists.

Unless of course Daniel did something radical like teach Eloise 'off-camera' .... like during the 75 minute break that Desmond was out for maybe? :rolleyes:

Y'know I've never seen any of the main characters take a 'bathroom break' on the show, on-camera at least. I guess that means they have been constipated since they landed on the Island, right?

Why couldn't Daniel be Eloise's constant? Eloise's death does present a paradox...unless one can "time shift" into the future in which one no longer exists.

Good point.. even better question, though: why couldn't Daniel be Desmond's constant?

I mean, besides the fact that Penny being his constant is way more romantic.

Remember when it was revealed that the woman with Daniel in his flashback is his caretaker? Why does he need a caretaker? Why is he crying and doesn't understand his reason for doing so? Brain tumor from prolonged exposure to the radiation in his lab. When he and Charlotte are doing the card memory test, they are simply verifying one of the island's properties--it heals. We've seen it with Locke, Ben alluded to it, and now with Daniel.

I think he's crying because on a subconscious level, he knows what 815 crashing means-- that a whole chain of events is going to begin. If Desmond is Faraday's constant, he must have been keeping track of him. I know it all happens in a weird order, and at the time Faraday saw the crash Desmond hadn't traveled back in time yet, but with this whole screwy space-time continuum thing, I can't help but think (in this case) the future is effecting the past.

i need to watch again to be sure, but it seemed to me when des brought up the lack of head protection, dan made a sort of 'too late/doesn't matter' style gesture... i'm thinking there is already a problem with his brain before then.

That's what I think. He's smart enough to realize what the radiation would do to his head. If he had a previously existing condition, he's probably feel like it didn't matter if he got more messed up.

I took the scene to show that despite Dan's amazing intellect, he did not consider something so obvious....as in, they're depicting him to be one of those scientists you see that are super-intelligent but they can barely dress themselves or walk and chew gum at the same time.

I took the scene to show that despite Dan's amazing intellect, he did not consider something so obvious....as in, they're depicting him to be one of those scientists you see that are super-intelligent but they can barely dress themselves or walk and chew gum at the same time.
I'm in agreement with you on that. It definitely seemed to strike him as a "that could never...oh ... wait... dangit." Poor absent-minded Daniel :hug:

When Desmond meets Daniel at Oxford, Daniel comments that his future self will remember meeting Desmond years earlier. Desmond says no and suggests that Daniel simply forgot.

Daniel says something like, "Yeah right...how would that happen?" Moments later, Desmond points out an obvious flaw in Daniel's protective measures against his experiment...citing that Daniel leaves his head exposed.

On the island, we find out, via 3 cards, that Daniel seems to have a problem remembering things. He also keeps a journal, which would come in pretty handy for someone who couldn't convert short-term to long-term memories very well.

So...

Daniel's experiments will eventually cause him some memory complications so he must resort to recording his thoughts into a journal. Perhaps, this is how Daniel got Desmond's name in his journal, yet did not seem to know him upon meeting.



All great points and a lot of nods toward a memory loss.

Does anyone else think memory loss might be one of the side effects of traveling through the snowglobe limits, or through time? Daniel mentioned 'side effects,' and since Charlotte was attempting to help him with his memory, I got the feeling the memory loss was related to something she cared about (and considering her seemingly callous attitude, I can't see it being just her helping him out with his previously occurring memory issues).

Also - and I'm just throwing this out there - could the freightie flashbacks be from a different timeline? One that occurred after they changed the past, but Daniel still had remnant memories about the Losties that made him cry? I just keep thinking that if I were Des, and could control being unstuck in time, I might change the past and not go on the race that led to him being on the island. If that happened, it's conceivable that the Losties' plane would have crashed into the ocean after losing a lot of fuel being so far off-course (Desmond wouldn't have been there to mess up the button-pushing that made them crash onto the island).

I started thinking with 'Eggtown' that Daniel has a brain tumor. Something that is affecting his memory.

Thinks in 'the Constant' that I feel play into this theory:

1 - When Desmond asks what does he wear to protect his head, Daniel gives him that look. To me that look could mean, "I've got a brain tumor. I'm really not going to mess it up any more than it is."

2 - Farraday's journal. At the end, he finds that note to himself. Maybe the reason Daniel doesn't remember meeting Desmond is his brain tumor. What if this meeting happened every time, and Farraday just couldn't remember it.

Though with 'the Constant' I have to think that maybe Daniel made his own mind travel through time. That's why he has so many memory issues.

Let's hope if it is a tumor, that the island heals him. I like Faraday!!

The journal entry is enigmatic- we don't know if he needs the constant now, or if he is projecting that Desmond is suitable in case he would need a constant. "If something goes wrong" sounds like Daniel has been trying the Eloise experiments on himself.

I started thinking with 'Eggtown' that Daniel has a brain tumor. Something that is affecting his memory.

Thinks in 'the Constant' that I feel play into this theory:

1 - When Desmond asks what does he wear to protect his head, Daniel gives him that look. To me that look could mean, "I've got a brain tumor. I'm really not going to mess it up any more than it is."

2 - Farraday's journal. At the end, he finds that note to himself. Maybe the reason Daniel doesn't remember meeting Desmond is his brain tumor. What if this meeting happened every time, and Farraday just couldn't remember it.

Though with 'the Constant' I have to think that maybe Daniel made his own mind travel through time. That's why he has so many memory issues.

He's been exposed to radiation. Or a radical hippy:

Brain on drugs (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Fried_egg,_sunny_side_up.jpg)

A brain tumor makes sense to me! All that radiation! And I can't think of another reason that Des had that line about him not protecting his head.

I also think Dan and Charlotte already know about the healing properties of the Island which is why she said he was making "progress".

Hahaha, thanks for the trip down memory lane, Uvajed! :biggrin:

A brain tumor makes sense to me! All that radiation! And I can't think of another reason that Des had that line about him not protecting his head.

I also think Dan and Charlotte already know about the healing properties of the Island which is why she said he was making "progress".

I need protection for my brain cause i never even thought of that!!

I need protection for my brain cause i never even thought of that!!

Don't worry I might have just been exposed to too much time tripping drugs in my past! :D

Hahaha, thanks for the trip down memory lane, Uvajed! :biggrin:

As always, pleased to oblige...:)