The OMG Knew It All Along and Love TPTB Thread! [Archive] - { Flicks N Shows | Fringe Division

Charlie

02-28-2008, 11:29 PM

OMG wait. OMG are you serious???? OMG I didn't connect the dots with the other characters doing that! OMG. You have imploded my mind.

So, do you think that the other characters are similarly going through what Desmond is going through but Desmond is affected differently/crazily because of his electromagnetic exposure?

Or are you saying that the FBs are a metaphorical connection to this actual phenomenon that Des is experiencing?

And holy cow. The sickness?? I didn't connec that either!!! I need to sit down. Oh wait. I am. Sh*t.

I think it's simple enough to see that the other Losties aren't experiencing the kind of dramatic effects that Desmond did/is. BUT it is a great idea that the flashbacks are something similar to what Desmond experienced. For example- Because of the electromagnetism or whatever is causing this, everyone experiences it to some degree. And so the Losties experience a nudge in memory, seemingly randomly, which results in the flashback.

I have always wondered this- When we see the flashbacks occur, are the characters actually thinking about that right then? Did they "experience" that flashback too? Not as vividly as Desmond, but experience that memory at that time? Certain times I've almost been sure of this.. and other times it doesn't really seem like it. If this is the case, though, wow. Thrilling.

lucky4me8

02-28-2008, 11:29 PM

OMG, Tabby, I just PMed you....
You're right - the SICKNESS!! Brandon! Has Danielle been time traveling all this time? Ben, from his closet????

abbybaby

02-28-2008, 11:30 PM

From what Noeland has said I'm wondering if.....your conscousness goes back in time while u are ON the island you are not physically affected as you would be Off the island ...as in Desmond. But what about the Flash Forwards? I'm confused, but lovin it!

TabbyRasa

02-28-2008, 11:30 PM

kendra...we cross-posted...look at the post before yours about the eye reference(s) :)

kendra1966

02-28-2008, 11:32 PM

I'm not a total idiot....really. Who is Brandon...why am I blanking? AUGH!

axpo23

02-28-2008, 11:34 PM

Wow. I never ever ever in a million years ever thought the FB were anything other then TPTB giving the audience information crucial to the characters. But, to think they actually could be something more---another reason I LOVE this show.

TabbyRasa

02-28-2008, 11:35 PM

Margalit

02-28-2008, 11:35 PM

so do you think danielle didn't contract the sickness because she was pregnant? was it protective somehow?

TabbyRasa

02-28-2008, 11:41 PM

abbybaby

02-28-2008, 11:43 PM

so do you think danielle didn't contract the sickness because she was pregnant? was it protective somehow?

Maybe because she concieved off the Island, like Claire, maybe that has something to do with it???

OK, Now I'm wondering about those SHOTS that Charlie was giving Claire from the medical station??? Were those anything like the shots Ships Doctor was giving the guy that was strapped down??? This epi has me RETHINKING this WHOLE SERIES and whats really going on! :eek2: :confused: :eek2:

lucky4me8

02-28-2008, 11:46 PM

kendra...way back in the S1/Pilot...on Danielle's repeating radio transmission...she said that Brandon/Brendon had the keys...

And we could only speculate what that meant (back then, and until tonight)...

NOW (pun intended), we can surmise much more about the importance of it all...

I'm probably being a LOST sap :redface:...but there are SO MANY loose ends being tied (or at least being referred to) in this epi...

:jump1:

And remember reading that in the original script for Solitary, Danielle told Sayid that her team had been studying time?

So I wonder, in addition to the flashbacks they've always had, have many been experiencing bits of the future since the sky turned purple and there was an electromagnetic surge?

Jack Sawyer

02-28-2008, 11:47 PM

Mind-blowing episode. So many reveals...I'm reeling. Such a strange and interesting "disease" .... I didn't see that coming at all. I'm so glad they tied up so many 'loose ends.' Can't wait to watch this one again...

LostLaura

02-28-2008, 11:48 PM

I think it's simple enough to see that the other Losties aren't experiencing the kind of dramatic effects that Desmond did/is. BUT it is a great idea that the flashbacks are something similar to what Desmond experienced. For example- Because of the electromagnetism or whatever is causing this, everyone experiences it to some degree. And so the Losties experience a nudge in memory, seemingly randomly, which results in the flashback.

I have always wondered this- When we see the flashbacks occur, are the characters actually thinking about that right then? Did they "experience" that flashback too? Not as vividly as Desmond, but experience that memory at that time? Certain times I've almost been sure of this.. and other times it doesn't really seem like it. If this is the case, though, wow. Thrilling.

Brilliant.

OMG, Tabby, I just PMed you....
You're right - the SICKNESS!! Brandon! Has Danielle been time traveling all this time? Ben, from his closet????

Oh, jeez.... do you think you can learn to "harness" the ability? Do you think that's how Ben has "never left the island" but clearly has??
kendra...way back in the S1/Pilot...on Danielle's repeating radio transmission...she said that Brandon/Brendon had the keys...

And we could only speculate what that meant (back then, and until tonight)...

NOW (pun intended), we can surmise much more about the importance of it all...

I'm probably being a LOST sap :redface:...but there are SO MANY loose ends being tied (or at least being referred to) in this epi...

:jump1:

But but I SWEAR it was "Brennan"! I heard "Brandon" tonight and flipped too, but I swear the transmission was "Brennan".
Lostpedia (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Distress_signal)
English translation

(sorry for crazy Lostpedia formatting)

Iteration 17294530 : "If anybody can hear this, they are dead. Please help us. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Black_Rock_%28ship%29). It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all."
Iteration 17294531 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Brennan_%28radio_transmission%29) took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."
Iteration 17294532 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."
Iteration 17294533 : "They are all dead. Help us. They are dead. If anybody can hear this—"
Iteration 17294534 : "It [or he] is outside. Please help us. Please help us !"
Iteration 17294535 : "If anybody can hear this, I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. Please help us ! They are all dead. They are dead. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock."

kendra1966

02-28-2008, 11:50 PM

kendra...way back in the S1/Pilot...on Danielle's repeating radio transmission...she said that Brandon/Brendon had the keys...

And we could only speculate what that meant (back then, and until tonight)...

NOW (pun intended), we can surmise much more about the importance of it all...

I'm probably being a LOST sap :redface:...but there are SO MANY loose ends being tied (or at least being referred to) in this epi...

:jump1:

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain that. I had totally forgotten about that. Your insight is a huge help.

lucky4me8

02-28-2008, 11:56 PM

Oh, jeez.... do you think you can learn to "harness" the ability? Do you think that's how Ben has "never left the island" but clearly has??

Yes!!!! I'll bet this is what's happening! He's harnassed and mastered the ability. I think my head is going to explode.

Oh dear, so then....where is Jacob? Stuck in time with no constant, in that chair? But where is his whole cabin?

TabbyRasa

02-28-2008, 11:56 PM

LostLaura...I was and still am too overly excited about this epi and the "B" reference...please forgive me...and I am way too excited to remember/research Tom's last name... :) Maybe that's where/when/why/how my confusion started (LOL)...

YVW, kendra...we try...

Gkaplan

02-29-2008, 12:02 AM

This reminds me why I always love Desmond "Mr. Deus Ex Machina" episodes. The past couple episodes had me a little worried, introducing so many new mysteries/questions without dealing with old ones. Then WHAM we get more than I ever expected from one epi. That will teach me to question my faith in the TPTB! :)

EvanAgee

02-29-2008, 12:10 AM

My only problem with the idea that the lostie's flashbacks are actually time shifts like Desmond's is this: They don't experience (or at least display) the same sense of panic that Desmond did. They don't seem to be confused in the slightest...

Guinevere

02-29-2008, 12:12 AM

I didn't know it all along but I have wondered about the flashbacks as well since "FBYE". There was so much stuff going on and I thank TPTB for explaining it in a way that I can somewhat understand!! :clapping: I think, though, I'm gonna get off the boards and go rewatch it. I'm sure I missed a thing or two from excitement. ;)

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 12:15 AM

Guin :hug: I hear you loud and clear...

I just need to commune with many LOST fans before I go re-watch... ;)

OMG, this epi *R*O*C*K*E*D* and *R*O*C*K*S* !!! :biggrin:

LostLaura

02-29-2008, 12:20 AM

Yes!!!! I'll bet this is what's happening! He's harnassed and mastered the ability. I think my head is going to explode.

Oh dear, so then....where is Jacob? Stuck in time with no constant, in that chair? But where is his whole cabin?

Oooohhh... maybe? OMG I can't fathom that.

Tabby, which "Tom"? Mr. Friendly? Why do you want to know his last name? I don't know it....

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 12:22 AM

Oh....the "knew it all along" just means that they've given us "time clues", and we've speculated upon such for so long...and that I've had faith in the writers that they would "come through" and "bring it"... ;)
100%

Tabby, which "Tom"? Mr. Friendly? Why do you want to know his last name? I don't know it....
Kate's ex...Tom Brennan (if I'm not mistaken?)...the one who was killed in the car when she was running from the hospital where she'd just seen her dying mom....

The Brennan/Brandon/Brendon confusion is a NEFARIOUS conspiracy that I blame on TPTB...;)

jscimeca715

02-29-2008, 12:30 AM

I find it hard to believe that the flashbacks are time travelling for everyone as well as Desmond. As someone mentioned a few posts above, none of the other losties seem to be as panicked and how do you explain the flash forwards? I think that Desmond is the only one that we'll see that is having these visions as well as possibly Locke. Remember, none of the Losties were overexposed to radiation or electromagnetism which would sort of void them when it comes to conscience travelling.

LostLaura

02-29-2008, 12:34 AM

Kate's ex...Tom Brennan (if I'm not mistaken?)...the one who was killed in the car when she was running from the hospital where she'd just seen her dying mom....

The Brennan/Brandon/Brendon confusion is a NEFARIOUS conspiracy that I blame on TPTB...;)

Oh, right right right... yeah in the "Brandon has the keys...." thread, czardingus mentioned that as well. He seems to think that the general feeling was that the transmission said "Brandon" or "Brendan" until we met Tom Brennan and then people changed their minds..... lol now I have no clue!

I find it hard to believe that the flashbacks are time travelling for everyone as well as Desmond. As someone mentioned a few posts above, none of the other losties seem to be as panicked and how do you explain the flash forwards? I think that Desmond is the only one that we'll see that is having these visions as well as possibly Locke. Remember, none of the Losties were overexposed to radiation or electromagnetism which would sort of void them when it comes to conscience travelling.

They were all exposed to the electromagnetism when the sky turned purple. Des the most, obviously.
100%
TABBY: OMG! lucky4me8 just posted in the "Danielle..." thread this amazing point: Do you remember that old thread where we posted about the real scripts? It was pressexecute.com I believe but the site is gone. Remember the Solitary script? That originally Danielle told Sayid that her team was studying TIME!!!!

jscimeca715

02-29-2008, 12:41 AM

Yeah but that still doesn't explain the flashbacks that happened before the sky turned purple. I'm not trying to be disagreeable, just trying to cover all the holes in this theory.

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 12:47 AM

TABBY: OMG! lucky4me8 just posted in the "Danielle..." thread this amazing point
I've posted here (the 'Lage) about that several times, but have always considered it a spoiler (on this site)...

It was
a deleted scene, according to David Fury, former LOST writer.

Simplist

02-29-2008, 12:49 AM

danielle was a freightie?

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 12:50 AM

Gee, Simplist...that's an intruiging thought...

lucky4me8

02-29-2008, 12:52 AM

I've posted here (the 'Lage) about that several times, but have always considered it a spoiler (on this site)...

It was
a deleted scene, according to David Fury, former LOST writer.

Sorry, my bad -- I edited my posts to spoilerfont. But I do love how that all fits so beautifully.

ForgivenTheWarlord

02-29-2008, 12:53 AM

I think it's simple enough to see that the other Losties aren't experiencing the kind of dramatic effects that Desmond did/is.

Yeah but that still doesn't explain the flashbacks that happened before the sky turned purple. I'm not trying to be disagreeable, just trying to cover all the holes in this theory.

I agree... I think that flashbacks are just flashbacks, but Des experienced something special. According to the rules presented in this episode Des is aware of the time jumps (no one else on-island has been) and they die violently without "connecting" to a constant. Sayid and the pilot were not injured so I don't think that they (or any of the other Losties) have experienced this.

I love the thought that it may be "the sickness" though... I hope it is, that'd be Fantastic.

This was one of my favorite episodes of anything ever.

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 12:57 AM

Sorry, my bad -- I edited my posts to spoilerfont. But I do love how that all fits so beautifully.
:8: LOST :8:
I agree... I think that flashbacks are just flashbacks, but Des experienced something special. According to the rules presented in this episode Des is aware of the time jumps (no one else o:n-island has been) and they die violently without "connecting" to a constant. Sayid and the pilot were not injured so I don't think that they (or any of the other Losties) have experienced this.

I love the thought that it may be "the sickness" though... I hope it is, that'd be Fantastic.

This was one of my favorite episodes of anything ever.
Interesting perspective, FTW...hmmm.

And hafta agree on your last sentence!

LostLaura

02-29-2008, 12:59 AM

Oh, right. Deleted scene. Spoiler. Will fix my post. But do you think that further corroborates the idea that Danielle's team was the freighties???
100%
Yeah but that still doesn't explain the flashbacks that happened before the sky turned purple. I'm not trying to be disagreeable, just trying to cover all the holes in this theory.

Oh, ok, I see what you are saying. Good point. I think it could be more of a metaphorical device in that case....

nlzounis

02-29-2008, 01:02 AM

Where is "Lord of the Files"?? He's been hawking this forever! I want to read his perspective on this week.
This episode was amazing. I loved it!!!!!!!

lostmio

02-29-2008, 01:12 AM

Never once, in 3.5 seasons, has any Lostie, at any time, looked around and said "Where am I?" "What I am I doing here" or "Who are you?"... either in flashback or on the island.
edit: except for Claire's amnesia in Maternity Leave, after she was hit in the head by Danielle.

I agree... I think that flashbacks are just flashbacks, but Des experienced something special
Exactly.

LostLaura

02-29-2008, 01:15 AM

Never once, in 3.5 seasons, has any Lostie, at any time, looked around and said "Where am I?" "What I am I doing here" or "Who are you?"... either in flashback or on the island.

Wait, I am confused. What is your point? Cause in the Pilot episode, Charlie says "Guys, where are we?"....

golf_fan

02-29-2008, 01:17 AM

I am BUSTING about the Des answers. Did anyone else surmise that he was in the brig (in S2 I believe) because he may have gone AWOL (stayed gone past his leave) while visiting Penny, in this episode? I didn't remember to count the days from the time he left the phone booth, to the moment he left Penny's apartment. I love that his backstory is all tied up. At least it feels all tied up. I knew Des was never a screw up.

Now we probably know why Dan need(s/ed) a caretaker - 20 shots of radiation to the head for how many years? I loved that line about the radiation apron. Des:"What about your head?" :rotflmao2: The look on Dan's face was priceless.

OMG I LOVED THIS EPI!!!!

kendra...way back in the S1/Pilot...on Danielle's repeating radio transmission...she said that Brandon/Brendon had the keys...

And we could only speculate what that meant (back then, and until tonight)...

NOW (pun intended), we can surmise much more about the importance of it all...

danielle was a freightie?

Gee, Simplist...that's an intruiging thought...

Maybe this Bandon guy traveled in conscious time to the past to meet Danielle much as Des met Dan at Oxford. Maybe this is why she never got the sickness, she had a constant in Brandon, until he died - and she was the only one from her team who had a constant. But, maybe now she has many constants if she's been jumping a while.

I LOVE IT!

1LovesLost

02-29-2008, 01:20 AM

OMG, Tabby, I just PMed you....
You're right - the SICKNESS!! Brandon! Has Danielle been time traveling all this time? Ben, from his closet????

Hey Everyone, this episode Rocked My World!!!! I don't get the sickness thing, Brandon, Danielle time traveling??? Can someone please explain for a slow person like myself :redface:????

lostmio

02-29-2008, 01:25 AM

T Desmond seemed fine with his FBs too until he got in the chopper. Des was never fine with his fb's. He was confused throughout both episodes in which he had fb's..

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 01:28 AM

Hey Everyone, this episode Rocked My World!!!! I don't get the sickness thing, Brandon, Danielle time traveling??? Can someone please explain for a slow person like myself :redface:????
You're not slow :)

Many of us think that connections are being made, and we could be much mistaken...

But, as for me, I figured that the nosebleeds (of Minkowski and Desmond) and Des' Time-Jumping = The Sickness that Danielle referred to way back in Season 1....

lostmio

02-29-2008, 01:28 AM

Wait, I am confused. What is your point? Cause in the Pilot episode, Charlie says "Guys, where are we?".... Charlie's remark wasn't associated with a flashback. He wasn't in the least disoriented about his own timeline, he was commenting on the weirdness of the island...

Selene1212

02-29-2008, 01:32 AM

:coco: :insane:

Lost_in_DeLandFla

02-29-2008, 01:34 AM

Since most of the smart people are hanging out in here tonight, I have a stupid question.

Is what happened to Des tonight, moving back and forth, the same as the flashes he has been having, where he can see the future and change the future? Or...is this a completely different, if a related phenom? Was the difference in what happened to Des in FBYE and this episode different because of the helicopter flight and the wrong coordinates?

lostmio

02-29-2008, 01:35 AM

Y I figured that the nosebleeds (of Minkowski and Desmond) and Des' Time-Jumping = The Sickness that Danielle referred to way back in Season 1.... I made that connection, too but I didn't see anything that made me think the Losties are suffering the same 'sickness'..

Gkaplan

02-29-2008, 01:39 AM

I don't think the other characters were experiencing their flashbacks. I think, as several other have said, that this was our first view of "the sickness" We spent so much time wondering about it and why none of the Losties had been effected. But we were missing a key ingredient, a hefty exposure to electromagnetic radiation. Something to do with the original "incident" in the Swan and why so many people (Danielle's team, the quarantine sign) were getting sick. Before they installed the time release manageable doses system.....

Once Desmond turned the key he blew up the electromagnetic anomaly, and gave himself a massive blast, quickly giving him the first stages of the sickness. Finally realized by not traveling out of the island on exactly the right coordinates.....

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 01:39 AM

bachikarn

02-29-2008, 01:39 AM

Only fools are enslaved by time and space ;)

1LovesLost

02-29-2008, 01:41 AM

You're not slow :)

Many of us think that connections are being made, and we could be much mistaken...

But, as for me, I figured that the nosebleeds (of Minkowski and Desmond) and Des' Time-Jumping = The Sickness that Danielle referred to way back in Season 1....

OOOhh. Thank You Tabby :kiss:. That's a kewl possible connection.

lostmio

02-29-2008, 01:41 AM

Now we probably know why Dan need(s/ed) a caretaker - 20 shots of radiation to the head for how many years? I loved that line about the radiation apron. Des:"What about your head?" :rotflmao2: The look on Dan's face was priceless.

I loved that bit too! I'm not sure which wins the "campiest moment of S4" award - Daniel's unprotected head or Sayid's "I can fix it" when he looked at the 10001 cut cable and wrecked circuits in the comm room. GO SAYID GO! FIX THAT SUCKER! YOU'RE THE MAN!

lostnthesoutheast

02-29-2008, 01:42 AM

First off, I love the fact that we finally know what the sickness is!!!! But I find the idea of many of the characters having "a constant" very intrigueing! Remember that comment that Carlton Cuse made in an interview about Jack and Kate being "the ultimate couple". At the time we all assumed that it referred to the triangle. But now I am thinking that there was really a whole lot more to it. I think that they are each other's constants. They've always seemed to be one another's touch stone on the island, an now in the FF's too. And what about Walt and Locke too. there are so many places this story could go now.

But one question, when was the name Brandon mentioned tonight? I missed it.

LilMissRabbit

02-29-2008, 01:43 AM

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 01:44 AM

OOOhh. Thank You Tabby :kiss:. That's a kewl possible connection.
YVW and TY...:)

This epi has LOST viewers reeling :confused:...c'mon, join the madness! ;)

Guinevere

02-29-2008, 01:55 AM

golf_fan

02-29-2008, 01:55 AM

That's what I was thinking too, chelle. The question remains, though... if the "sickness" that afflicted the rest of Rousseau's team is the same thing that Desmond and Minkowski experienced, why didn't it affect Rousseau? Had everyone else on her team been exposed to radiation/electromagnetism (as Daniel seems to blame) but her?

I posted this a page back, but maybe Brandon met her in the past, like Desmond meeting Daniel at Oxford. If so, Danielle could have a handy dandy notebook which has red letters that say, "If anything goes wrong, Brandon ___ will be MY constant"

What do you think?

I just got the similarities as well, Daniel (Farraday), Danielle (Rousseau). Could they have had the original same "interest" in the Island?

Intriguing that we are speculating on Rousseau without her appearance tonight... :)

PapaThor

02-29-2008, 01:56 AM

My understanding about the flashbacks is that they are "...used to recount events that happened prior to the story’s primary sequence of events or to fill in crucial backstory." and that " The flashbacks have some thematic or narrative parallels with the events on the Island."*

The flashbacks are literary devices and what is happening to Desmond is not a flashback. His consciousness seems to be traveling back and forth, each time carrying a memory of the previous trip.

That is why Daniel can tell Desmond to relay a message to him in the past.

Another reason these are not flashbacks is because the scenes are not static; they are dynamic, i.e. Desmond in interacting with the people in the past in order to affect the future. It's the good side of the Grandfather Time Travel Paradox. If you go back in time and kill your grandfather then your father is never born and you are never born so in effect, you are removing yourself from existence by killing your grandfather.
In this episode, Desmond carries hints and messages back and forth from the present to the past then back to the present again.

But notice that it is his past consciousness, or the Desmond from 1996, that is brought to the present (Dec. 2004) and present Desmond that is taken back to 1996. By going back and forth, Desmond is gaining information that will cause the "traveling" to stop because he has found his "constant."

In short, Desmond planted a seed in the past, (getting Penny's telephone number) so he could use it in the present.

Desmond is not technically time traveling per se, but doing something else that is affecting the timeline. And that something else is

* Flashbacks - Lostpedia [ http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Flashbacks ]

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 02:00 AM

I would think that Danielle being pregnant that she would have been shielded fro:Welcome:m any work involving the EMA. That may be the reason why she didn't get the sickness. Just my theory...
Wow...and we got a clue about that with Daniel putting on the radiation jacket...
I posted this a page back, but maybe Brandon met her in the past, like Desmond meeting Daniel at Oxford. If so, Danielle could have a handy dandy notebook which has red letters that say, "If anything goes wrong, Brandon ___ will be MY constant"

What do you think?

I just got the similarities as well, Daniel (Farraday), Danielle (Rousseau). Could they have had the original same "interest" in the Island?

Intriguing that we are speculating on Rousseau without her appearance tonight... :)
Too much to think/ponder about...must go re-watch... :)

MTQuinn

02-29-2008, 02:09 AM

What a gorgeous episode! Also, am I the only one who thinks that Sayid has a serious endorsement deal with Radio Shack in his future?

Guinevere

02-29-2008, 02:14 AM

What a gorgeous episode! Also, am I the only one who thinks that Sayid has a serious endorsement deal with Radio Shack in his future?

If he doesn't, he should get to work on that asap! ;)

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 02:16 AM

I probably need to bow out of those topics, MTQuinn...

But I do agree on the gorgeous episode comment!

lostmio

02-29-2008, 02:20 AM

What a gorgeous episode! Also, am I the only one who thinks that Sayid has a serious endorsement deal with Radio Shack in his future?

And Verizon and Sprint and AT&T.
"Can you hear me now?"
If not, call SAYID, he's the MAN!

Guinevere

02-29-2008, 02:24 AM

And Verizon and Sprint and AT&T.
"Can you hear me now?"
If not, call SAYID, he's the MAN!

Yeah, just give him a minute! ;)

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 02:25 AM

SUCH a mind-blowing epi....words escape me...

I don't have anything else to say until I re-watch...(promise) ;)

solarman

02-29-2008, 02:29 AM

I think like everything done on this message board, the constant is being over analyzed. I do not think the constant is the sickness, nor do I think everyone has a constant. I would think the people around the swan when it blew up may, but other then that I doubt anyone else has been exposed to mass amounts of radiation/magnetic force.

Zane_7849

02-29-2008, 02:31 AM

I don't think the posters earlier were trying to say that the other losties were having time bending flashbacks like Desmond before, but maybe that the flashbacks are lighter, less intense versions of what is going on with poor Des.

And yes everyone on Flight 815 was exposed to some to degree to electromagnatism, Des did bring down the whole plane with it.

Shione

02-29-2008, 02:32 AM

I don't even know what to say... my head is spinning, and and I'm squirming around so much I can hardly type. This was, without a doubt, one of the best episodes of LOST I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing. Never have I had so many jump-out-my-seat moments in a single episode! Desmond has FINALLY found an explanation for what's happening to him, Faraday proves to be a brilliant addition to the island, we're given the chance to start processing what's going on with this time dilation, and there was a shoutout to Flowers for Algernon. Thank you Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof, you truly are geniuses!

The March Hare

02-29-2008, 02:33 AM

And yes everyone on Flight 815 was exposed to some to degree to electromagnatism, Des did bring down the whole plane with it.

Arg! I was just going to post this! :biggrin:

MTQuinn

02-29-2008, 02:33 AM

Solarman, the house that I grew up in was an electromagnetically coiled piece of uranium so I resent your comments. Please try and be more sensitive in future posts.

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 02:36 AM

Double ARGHH!!! I am still reeling...

solarman

02-29-2008, 02:37 AM

And yes everyone on Flight 815 was exposed to some to degree to electromagnatism, Des did bring down the whole plane with it.

But Faraday said mass amounts.

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 02:38 AM

Solarman, the house that I grew up in was an electromagnetically coiled piece of uranium so I resent your comments. Please try and be more sensitive in future posts.
tentative :biggrin:

I detect humor on the thread (I hope)... ;)

solarman

02-29-2008, 02:39 AM

Solarman, the house that I grew up in was an electromagnetically coiled piece of uranium so I resent your comments. Please try and be more sensitive in future posts.

You are taking my comments about a TV show personally? I would hope you are joking.

MTQuinn

02-29-2008, 02:42 AM

I am completely joking like, most of the time. I think I need to add a disclaimer to my signature.

Shione

02-29-2008, 02:44 AM

Solarman, the house that I grew up in was an electromagnetically coiled piece of uranium so I resent your comments. Please try and be more sensitive in future posts.

You too! I can't believe it! I'm not alone ...although, I didn't get time-traveling-consciousness abilities, just a voracious love for LOST, and a penchant for wine.

MTQuinn

02-29-2008, 02:45 AM

You too! I can't believe it! I'm not alone ...although, I didn't get time-traveling-consciousness abilities, just an voracious love for LOST, and a penchant for wine.

That's nice, mostly it just made me sterile.

EVIL JOE

02-29-2008, 02:48 AM

Remember this video: http://lost.wikia.com/wiki/Station_6:_The_Orchid#Video ?

It was shown at Comicon. You see Marvin Candle/Halowax with rabbit number 15 talking about Station 6: The Orchid. At one point in the video, something falls from the ceiling, then the camera pans up to show another number 15 rabbit. Halowax makes a point of keeping them away from each other.

So my theory is that they were experimenting with this time shifting using rabbits. Rabbit number 15's constant was the other rabbit number 15. Although, why would they put the same number on them? Why not 15A and 15B? And what fell from the ceiling?

He also asks someone what she set the shift to and she says, "Negative twenty."

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 02:48 AM

Gee :( this thread is seemingly being taken over by funny people who don't understand the importance of LOST....ah well...those of us who UNDERSTAND LOST prevail...:biggrin: (well, we try)

ForgivenTheWarlord

02-29-2008, 02:50 AM

The March Hare

02-29-2008, 02:52 AM

Last season on a podcast, Damon and Carlton said the relationship between Penny and Desmond is key to the show. Tonight proved that.

atem ra

02-29-2008, 02:53 AM

MTQuinn

02-29-2008, 02:53 AM

Sorry Tabby, I am just really amped after that episode, what would you like to discuss?

havok579257

02-29-2008, 02:53 AM

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 02:55 AM

Last season on a podcast, Damon and Carlton said the relationship between Penny and Desmond is key to the show. Tonight proved that.
Really cool catch! :) Many of us were waiting for for tonight (but it wasn't quite the ultimate, if you know what I mean)...

ForgivenTheWarlord

02-29-2008, 02:55 AM

I was thinking if you don't come in at the right bearing you get the sickness, "Side Effects". Danielle must have gotten lucky, not her team. Losties as well, special? or since they crossed in past life they have constants with each other? "We are all brought here for a purpose." or the plane hit the right bearing? very cool.

I think that what the ep was saying was that the "side effects" occur to people who have recently been in contact with electromagnetic energy. We know that Des was when the hatch blew up... but maybe the other Losties never were.
100%

If everyone experienced this then they or at least most would be dead now. Like Claire. She cares for Aaron but Aaron does not exist in her FB. Remeber Daniel said you have to have a constant in the past and in the present. Also Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid and Sawyer would be dead. None of them have a constant in the past and in the future.

That's what I think also.
I mean even if you say Jack has his dad, Kate has her horse, Sayid has the cat etc... then their flashbacks would have Stopped after they met their "constants" like they did with Des.

Sam G

02-29-2008, 02:58 AM

Is there a chance that Aaron is their Constant, that there is a way they see he is happy in the future because of things they did in the past?

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 02:59 AM

Sorry Tabby, I am just really amped after that episode, what would you like to discuss?
Desmond and Penny riding off into the sunset?:)

What got you amped about the epi?

MTQuinn

02-29-2008, 02:59 AM

I think that what the ep was saying was that the "side effects" occur to people who have recently been in contact with electromagnetic energy. We know that Des was when the hatch blew up... but maybe the other Losties never were.

I guess Locke's lack of a constant will be yet another reason for him to stay then since he also encountered quite the hefty dose.

Desmond and Penny riding off into the sunset?:)

Totally, I almost had some serious man-tears!

ForgivenTheWarlord

02-29-2008, 03:02 AM

I guess Locke's lack of a constant will be yet another reason for him to stay then since he also encountered quite the hefty dose.

The island's way of saying "you leave, you die!"

And it's Locke's own doing because he doubted the button.

Do not doubt the button. Fear the button.

Sam G

02-29-2008, 03:10 AM

No one else can be effecting the time shift or they would be dead. This is Desmond and Minkowski specific and obviously Daniel. Remeber Daniel said "SOME" people have side effects. He didn't say everyone.

If everyone experienced this then they or at least most would be dead now. Like Claire. She cares for Aaron but Aaron does not exist in her FB. Remeber Daniel said you have to have a constant in the past and in the present. Also Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid and Sawyer would be dead. None of them have a constant in the past and in the future.

This is Desmond specific due to turning the key and leaving the island. The rest of the FB are just FB. Its just not possible for this to be happening to anyone else because everyone else would be like Minkowski.
Does the Constant have to be Good?

Sayid has Nadia
Sawyer had the Real Sawyer but the strength of that had been fading (but could have changed to Kate, there's a chance he knew her 4 years before flight 815)

Locke had Cooper (But he had Sawyer kill him, is this why Locke is starting to act strangly?)

Hurley has his Mom

Rose and Bernard have each other

Sun and Jin have each other

Jack doesn't seem to have anyone from his past
Kate doesn't seem to have anyone from her past..........Could Aaron be their constant?
Claire doesn't have anyone from her past

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 03:11 AM

Totally, I almost had some serious man-tears!
Only almost? I think a re-watch might be good thing... :) (don't forget to report back)
100%
Sam :) I will digest your post tomorrow...(damn the time zones)... :)

havok579257

02-29-2008, 03:27 AM

Does the Constant have to be Good?

Sayid has Nadia
Sawyer had the Real Sawyer but the strength of that had been fading (but could have changed to Kate, there's a chance he knew her 4 years before flight 815)

Locke had Cooper (But he had Sawyer kill him, is this why Locke is starting to act strangly?)

Hurley has his Mom

Rose and Bernard have each other

Sun and Jin have each other

Jack doesn't seem to have anyone from his past
Kate doesn't seem to have anyone from her past..........Could Aaron be their constant?
Claire doesn't have anyone from her past

The constant does not need to be good just someone you care deeply about who IS in the past and IN the present. Sayid has no one since Nadia is not in the present with him, niether is Hurley's mom, niether was Cooper for Sawyer or Locke or the first 2 1/2 seasons.

Like Daniel said you have to have a constant who is both in the past and in the present and when you come in contact with them in btoh times you will stop shifting through time and end up in the proper timeline. Desmond and Jin and Sun would be the only people who have constant's who are in their past and in the present. Everyone else's constant is only in the past or only in the present, not both.

jcm224

02-29-2008, 03:29 AM

I often glance, but never respond, so forgive my ignorance. But, concerning the "constant" theory...we know Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and Aaron are 5 of the 6 Flight 815 returnees, so it would seem that everyone else (from the flight) either chose to stay, or maybe died in transit due to the lack of a "constant". Remember, the rest of the world eventually believes there were 8 original survivors (Jin and Sun?)? There's still sooo much to be revealed in the coming episodes/seasons. Perhaps we haven't been exposed to the "constants" that enabled the return of the 6?
Again...first post ever! Go easy on me!:redface:

mmpd

02-29-2008, 03:30 AM

:) :) :)

Yes, all the Time references from way back in Season 1; yes, the Eye references; yes, The Sickness...

They are tying it all together...and so very expertly...

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

I just don't see how LOST can get any better...but it keeps doing that...

Man, the sickness. You are so right!

benos

02-29-2008, 03:35 AM

I guess when we see Danielle's story. We see her crew gain Desmond and Min's curse of traveling back in time. That's why Danielle killed her team, and thought they were crazy.

havok579257

02-29-2008, 03:41 AM

TabbyRasa

02-29-2008, 03:42 AM

Man, the sickness. You are so right!
I could be wrong, though (but thanks!)...

Of course, this could be a conspiracy to make us think these things...(anyone have a tinfoil hat handy?)...

Goldfoot

02-29-2008, 03:43 AM

Someone brought up the idea of Desmond being AWOL and that getting him discharged. I thought of this the instant he called Penny on the phone. The problem is, it's those kinds of things in movies that make me dislike the movie. Once he got out of prison he was confronted by Charles Widmore and told to stay away from his daughter. This sequence of events started him on the path to the island, thus enabling him to send his consciousness back in time. If this event in the future were to turn out to be the cause of his discharge, that would be just like all the movies and I will be upset. It does not make sense to me that a future event that alters the past will cause someone to follow a path that allows them to experience that future event. I'm really hoping that the writers have a better/different way of working with the time "traveling" than what has become typical in other media. That's one of the things that intrigues me about Desmond, that what is happening to him appears to be something I've not seen in any other story.

jcm224

02-29-2008, 03:45 AM

But...technically? Wasn't Aaron "on board"? I mean, Claire was 8 months pregnant! Very close to term! I don't know...that was my assumption!

Sam G

02-29-2008, 03:45 AM

The constant does not need to be good just someone you care deeply about who IS in the past and IN the present. Sayid has no one since Nadia is not in the present with him, niether is Hurley's mom, niether was Cooper for Sawyer or Locke or the first 2 1/2 seasons.

Like Daniel said you have to have a constant who is both in the past and in the present and when you come in contact with them in btoh times you will stop shifting through time and end up in the proper timeline. Desmond and Jin and Sun would be the only people who have constant's who are in their past and in the present. Everyone else's constant is only in the past or only in the present, not both.

I don't have the ability, right now, to rewatch the episode. Does someone have Daniel's definition of what the Constant is? Didn't Desmond ask if it could be a person? Can it be something else?

mmpd

02-29-2008, 03:51 AM

I don't have the ability, right now, to rewatch the episode. Does someone have Daniel's definition of what the Constant is? Didn't Desmond ask if it could be a person? Can it be something else?

He did ask if it could be a person, and Daniel said yes. So would that imply it could be something other than a person as well? I don't know. If it has to be something you care deeply about, it would seem like it would most likely be a person.

I just remembered. Walt's constant could be Vincent.

jbritz22

02-29-2008, 03:56 AM

I dont think the constant has to be a person. When daniel was asked if it had to be a person he said something like "im not sure". So it could be anything that holds meaning to you, at first I thought the constant was the picture of des and penny. But it turned out to be penny herself.

ForgivenTheWarlord

02-29-2008, 03:57 AM

Sam G

02-29-2008, 03:59 AM

jbritz22

02-29-2008, 04:02 AM

Sayid still has Nadia's picture

Sawyer would have still had the real Sawyer, if it wasn't for Richard and Locke
But Sawyer had that birthday wish he made 4 years ago, which makes me think Kate could be his constant.

Claire has Aaron because he was with her 8 months before the crash.

Kate ?

Hurley is in trouble

Saywers constant could be anthony cooper and the note? But im not too convinced that the flashbacks are going back in time just yet. If they were that would be insanely cool. Oh and one more thing, the passengers of 815 that didnt have high exposure to radiation wouldnt need constants would they? didnt daniel say that only people with high exposures got the bad symptoms?

Goldfoot

02-29-2008, 04:03 AM

Sam G

02-29-2008, 04:07 AM

None of the others have tried leaving the island yet. We're not sure what the hatch implosion has done. Is everyone on the Island now exposed to a strong magnetic field?

We've seen Hurley in trouble. Kate seems fine and Jack isn't doing well, Sayid seems fine.

jbritz22

02-29-2008, 04:18 AM

You all are giving these characters constants, but they would have no idea to use them if they were experiencing these episodes. If they were experiencing them, they would all constantly be disoriented and as confused as Desmond and not remember that they crashed onto an island, yet they all talk about the fact that they crashed all the time.

But, these people did not have the mass exposure like desmond/locke did. Perhaps since they only got a small "dosage" there "flashbacks" are not strong enough to be noticed? Iunno this all really confuses me!!!

lostmio

02-29-2008, 04:24 AM

Sayid still has Nadia's picture
Penny's picture wasn't much help to Des. Are you saying Nadia's picture was more significant than Penny's?

Sawyer would have still had the real Sawyer, if it wasn't for Richard and Locke No help there.

But Sawyer had that birthday wish he made 4 years ago, which makes me think Kate could be his constant. I don't follow you. Please explain.
Claire has Aaron because he was with her 8 months before the crash. Claire barely acknowledged Aaron during the first few months of her pregnancy, and didn't name him until after he was born. Further, she tried to give him away. Not much of a constant.

Kate ? doesn't seem all that disoriented..

Hurley is in trouble What's your point?

We've seen Hurley in trouble. Kate seems fine and Jack isn't doing well, Sayid seems fine.
No pattern there.
Neither Hurley nor Jack have shown any problems that remotely resemble Desmond's.
Nor has any other Lostie.

Goldfoot

02-29-2008, 04:34 AM

But, these people did not have the mass exposure like desmond/locke did. Perhaps since they only got a small "dosage" there "flashbacks" are not strong enough to be noticed? Iunno this all really confuses me!!!

But Desmond didn't experience this until he physically left the island after the explosion. I think it happened only to Desmond because he was the one who turned the key. That was the extreme amount of electromagnetism required. It sent him back in time then, only it seemed to be permanent. Since it was just his consciousness, when he got hit with the cricket bat, it returned him to normal, back in 2004. Then upon leaving the island, or crossing the barrier to the rest of the world, at the wrong bearing he had a similar experience to before, only this time it was erratic and dangerous.

Sam G

02-29-2008, 04:41 AM

We don't know who's going to need them.

Daniel thought he might need one:

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=110152&fullsize=1
Which reminds me of Claire's Diary

jbritz22

02-29-2008, 04:43 AM

But Desmond didn't experience this until he physically left the island after the explosion. I think it happened only to Desmond because he was the one who turned the key. That was the extreme amount of electromagnetism required. It sent him back in time then, only it seemed to be permanent. Since it was just his consciousness, when he got hit with the cricket bat, it returned him to normal, back in 2004. Then upon leaving the island, or crossing the barrier to the rest of the world, at the wrong bearing he had a similar experience to before, only this time it was erratic and dangerous.

So, if locke leaves the island do you think this same thing could happen to him?

I think this proves its locke in the coffin. Perhaps this strange sickness affected him?

lockesmithe

02-29-2008, 04:44 AM

I think it happened only to Desmond because he was the one who turned the key. That was the extreme amount of electromagnetism required.

Not sure at this point how much electromagnetism is required. Minkowski also experienced the Desmond effect. He sat in a radio room, and then ventured out toward the island. I'm assuming that being constantly in a radio room for a certain amount of time is enough to put you at risk for the Desmond effect. One not need to be at ground zero of a dramatic failsafe key turn.

Goldfoot

02-29-2008, 04:51 AM

So, if locke leaves the island do you think this same thing could happen to him?

If he doesn't leave on the correct bearing. He was in The Swan when it purplized the sky. I really don't see him ever leaving the island though. My point was just that I think the rest of the people on the island aren't experiencing anything like that. Even the ones who spent some time in The Swan, which would be a lot closer than some of the people who had flash backs. Daniel was only concerned with the possibility of Desmond's exposure once he was told on the phone that something was wrong. This tells me that he has an understanding of the barrier between the island and the rest of the world. If the flashbacks that we see week to week were people suddenly being thrust into their past, I really think the characters would have addressed the issue amongst themselves. Over 40 people have had flashbacks and yet not a single mention of anything extraordinary.

jbritz22

02-29-2008, 04:55 AM

If he doesn't leave on the correct bearing. He was in The Swan when it purplized the sky. I really don't see him ever leaving the island though. My point was just that I think the rest of the people on the island aren't experiencing anything like that. Even the ones who spent some time in The Swan, which would be a lot closer than some of the people who had flash backs. Daniel was only concerned with the possibility of Desmond's exposure once he was told on the phone that something was wrong. This tells me that he has an understanding of the barrier between the island and the rest of the world. If the flashbacks that we see week to week were people suddenly being thrust into their past, I really think the characters would have addressed the issue amongst themselves. Over 40 people have had flashbacks and yet not a single mention of anything extraordinary.

Good point, furthers my doubts that flashbacks are people being thrust back into time. But it's still lingering there.

Pinjo

02-29-2008, 06:36 AM

But Sawyer had that birthday wish he made 4 years ago, which makes me think Kate could be his constant.
Kate and Sawyer never met, I hate how much people read into that line. Sawyer's 'birthday wish' was that a hot girl would jump him, most probably covered in dirt in the middle of a jungle, or something 'hot' like that. :undecide:

I'd really like the whole 'flashback' thing to have an indepth explanation, like it is the earliest stages of the sickness. But, there are too many plotholes. Boone wouldn't have experienced any flashes because he had Shannon's as a constant anchor in his life from the time that his flashes took place. The same applies for Sun (and Jin), despire her one childhood flash, Jin has been a constant anchor in her life. It doesn't explain Danielle avoidance of time travel either, pregnancy can't be an immunity because Claire was quiet clearly experiencing 'flashes' in her season one episode. Also, Jack should have stopped having 'flashes' from the time the tailies and the losties united, because Ana-Lucia would have acted as an anchor. But between their union and her death, he continued to 'flash'.

I love these theories, and hope there is a basis for a lot of end game theories here; and I think the whole 'eye' thing is the start of something... But, honestly, I think we are trying to use one isolated mystery to explain the entire mythology of the show, and I don't think that's going to work.

pibbsneaker

02-29-2008, 07:05 AM

Bugul

02-29-2008, 07:14 AM

Before I comment on this properly can someone please point me towards this Brandon/Brennon reference? Was one of the people on the freighter named Brandon/Brennon?

andy_candy

02-29-2008, 07:15 AM

:) :) :)

Yes, all the Time references from way back in Season 1; yes, the Eye references; yes, The Sickness...

Whatz with the eye references? Sorry but I didnt get it. Will you plz care to explain?

Bugul

02-29-2008, 07:20 AM

Whatz with the eye references? Sorry but I didnt get it. Will you plz care to explain?
Referring to the doctor looking in Desmond's eyes and the connection to the time traveling, I think.

Pinjo

02-29-2008, 08:06 AM

Then why did we have flashbacks for people who don't make it off the Island, who have died on the Island, or who have lived on the Island for a very long time? Why didn't they stop for a second during their FB and say, wait, I remember something from the future?
Try again. The flashbacks/flashforwards are devices used to tell a story.
Well, obviously no one is suggesting that they are flashing back with their entire consciousness in tact like Desmond. They are mearly experiencing a primitive form having only experienced very small exposures to the electromagnetism. Desmond, who has had a long term exposure plus one full blast from the release, undergoes an excelled 'flash' when he withdraws from the island. Well, atleast I think that is what is being said.

IF this is the case, and the Losties discover that they share the common bond of being each other's constants, then that sure adds a whole lot of weight and irony to Jack's 'Live Together, Die Alone' quote.

stevep

02-29-2008, 08:39 AM

guys could this explain why jack wanted to go back to the island in the finale, does he need kate as his constant

LostLaura

02-29-2008, 11:09 AM

Charlie's remark wasn't associated with a flashback. He wasn't in the least disoriented about his own timeline, he was commenting on the weirdness of the island...

Ah, I misunderstood your comment.

Since most of the smart people are hanging out in here tonight, I have a stupid question.

Is what happened to Des tonight, moving back and forth, the same as the flashes he has been having, where he can see the future and change the future? Or...is this a completely different, if a related phenom? Was the difference in what happened to Des in FBYE and this episode different because of the helicopter flight and the wrong coordinates?
It's related. He was already having the flashes because of the electromagnet exposure when the hatch imploded. But when they went slightly off course when they were flying to the freighter, he apparently go the sickness.

I don't think the other characters were experiencing their flashbacks. I think, as several other have said, that this was our first view of "the sickness" We spent so much time wondering about it and why none of the Losties had been effected. But we were missing a key ingredient, a hefty exposure to electromagnetic radiation. Something to do with the original "incident" in the Swan and why so many people (Danielle's team, the quarantine sign) were getting sick. Before they installed the time release manageable doses system.....

Once Desmond turned the key he blew up the electromagnetic anomaly, and gave himself a massive blast, quickly giving him the first stages of the sickness. Finally realized by not traveling out of the island on exactly the right coordinates.....

That's a very good explanation that people should read if they are still not understanding.

First off, I love the fact that we finally know what the sickness is!!!! But I find the idea of many of the characters having "a constant" very intrigueing! Remember that comment that Carlton Cuse made in an interview about Jack and Kate being "the ultimate couple". At the time we all assumed that it referred to the triangle. But now I am thinking that there was really a whole lot more to it. I think that they are each other's constants.

Interesting idea about Jack and Kate. "WE have to go back!" Maybe he can't go back without her. It'd be interesting if Kate was Jack's constant but Kate was also Sawyer's constant. At least that would be a good explanation/excuse for the hate triangle!

Personally, I like the idea of overlapping constants. One person is connected to someone who is connected to someone. Remember the S2 DVD Connections game? ...

:Welcome: to the 'Lage, LilMissRabbit! I would think that Danielle being pregnant that she would have been shielded from any work involving the EMA. That may be the reason why she didn't get the sickness. Just my theory...

I agree that must be why Danielle didn't get the sickness.

I just got the similarities as well, Daniel (Farraday), Danielle (Rousseau). Could they have had the original same "interest" in the Island?

Intriguing that we are speculating on Rousseau without her appearance tonight... :)

I have been wondering for a little while now why we have a Danielle and a Daniel. It's been annoying me b/c if I'm reading someone's post quickly I might misread who they are talking about! ;)

And yes everyone on Flight 815 was exposed to some to degree to electromagnatism, Des did bring down the whole plane with it.

Right. Thank you. It's not just when the sky turned purple during the implosion. There was the first time, when the plane was brought down. Very good point.

I often glance, but never respond, so forgive my ignorance. But, concerning the "constant" theory...we know Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and Aaron are 5 of the 6 Flight 815 returnees, so it would seem that everyone else (from the flight) either chose to stay, or maybe died in transit due to the lack of a "constant". Remember, the rest of the world eventually believes there were 8 original survivors (Jin and Sun?)? There's still sooo much to be revealed in the coming episodes/seasons. Perhaps we haven't been exposed to the "constants" that enabled the return of the 6?
Again...first post ever! Go easy on me!:redface:

Very good first post! Welcome!

Glad your here, welcome aboard. Should point out Aaron is not one of the 6 as far as we know since he was not actually on the plane. I don't think he counts. The 6 I think need to have been on the plane.

Many people think Aaron IS one of the 6. There is a thread I started in last week's eppy forum that discusses this very topic.

He did ask if it could be a person, and Daniel said yes. So would that imply it could be something other than a person as well? I don't know. If it has to be something you care deeply about, it would seem like it would most likely be a person.

I just remembered. Walt's constant could be Vincent.

I like the Walt/Vincent idea. Yes, it can be something other than a person.

Well, obviously no one is suggesting that they are flashing back with their entire consciousness in tact like Desmond. They are mearly experiencing a primitive form having only experienced very small exposures to the electromagnetism. Desmond, who has had a long term exposure plus one full blast from the release, undergoes an excelled 'flash' when he withdraws from the island. Well, atleast I think that is what is being said.

IF this is the case, and the Losties discover that they share the common bond of being each other's constants, then that sure adds a whole lot of weight and irony to Jack's 'Live Together, Die Alone' quote.

Yes, thank you. Good explanation. And I love your point about LTDA!!!

jfrey42

02-29-2008, 11:15 AM

Am I like totally LOST in regards to this last episode? I have never watched the mobisodes or anything from the internet. Have I like missed a lot by only watching the LOST TV show? I don't know or understand what loose ends have been "tied up"....I've watched every epi of LOST since the pilot and thought "The Constant" was great, but I'm not getting what loose ends are cleared up. HELP!

jane_eire

02-29-2008, 11:18 AM

The strongest Constant is Love. The most powerful of emotions.

Why did Walt appear to Shannon, all wet and speaking backwards? It was Shannon because of the shared emotional connection with Vincent.

You are going to cry when you realize what happened in Raised By Another and ATBCHDI, if you have love in your hearts.

Do not be surprised when Sawyer sees his parents.

The Whispers Are Beautiful.

Emotional continuity.

Good vibrations.

danl08

02-29-2008, 11:29 AM

What a gorgeous episode! Also, am I the only one who thinks that Sayid has a serious endorsement deal with Radio Shack in his future?
I smell a rat, who could have fixed that mess in a minute..... and got a phone line out...... with a dial tone...... to the UK...... from a ship......?
calling Dr Suds.

ryan0905

02-29-2008, 11:35 AM

jane_eire

02-29-2008, 11:38 AM

Nadia's picture is very important. Her name is Noor... it means light reflected off the mirror of the heart.

Miss Aly

02-29-2008, 11:40 AM

LostMyMarbles

02-29-2008, 11:41 AM

Before I comment on this properly can someone please point me towards this Brandon/Brennon reference? Was one of the people on the freighter named Brandon/Brennon?

I believe Brandon was the name of Minkowski's companion who was in the body bag.

Danielle said Brendan lost the key.

jane_eire

02-29-2008, 11:43 AM

Only read the first two pages, so I'm sorry if this has been mentioned.

Regarding the flashbacks being a character's conscious moving back in time to resolve an issue, I'm not sure that's the case. If so then a character would completely blank out for x minutes 4 times a day, every day (almost). I'm fairly sure somebody would have noticed that.

Desmond's case is extreme. For most of the FBs, it isn't full-blown consciousness being transferred, it's emotion that's being transferred, back and forth. And the transfer of emotion does create the opportunity to change decisions in the past, only the characters aren't aware of it at the time. It is not deliberate, not controlled... and it's very dangerous.

burgs

02-29-2008, 11:58 AM

The island's way of saying "you leave, you die!"

And it's Locke's own doing because he doubted the button.

Do not doubt the button. Fear the button.

a thought that i just had...locke's constant could have been his father...but ben told locke that he had to kill his father before he could come with ben and the others...maybe this was ben's manipulative way of forcing locke to stay on the island - if his father is dead, ben knows that locke's leaving the island would kill him?? and since locke seems to have insight into the secrets of the island, he would know that he cannot leave or risk death, making him a protector of the island, like a new ben?
100%
Sayid still has Nadia's picture

Sawyer would have still had the real Sawyer, if it wasn't for Richard and Locke
But Sawyer had that birthday wish he made 4 years ago, which makes me think Kate could be his constant.

apologies, but could you remind me what this birthday wish was that sawyer made?

Kate has the plane

i had this thought as well.

havok579257

02-29-2008, 12:25 PM

Well, obviously no one is suggesting that they are flashing back with their entire consciousness in tact like Desmond. They are mearly experiencing a primitive form having only experienced very small exposures to the electromagnetism. Desmond, who has had a long term exposure plus one full blast from the release, undergoes an excelled 'flash' when he withdraws from the island. Well, atleast I think that is what is being said.

IF this is the case, and the Losties discover that they share the common bond of being each other's constants, then that sure adds a whole lot of weight and irony to Jack's 'Live Together, Die Alone' quote.

Except thats not possible from what we know. You need to have a constant in the FB and in the present. So for Jack, if Kate's his constant he needs to talk to her in the past and in the present. If Sayid's constant is Nadia then he needs to have talked to her on island. Just doesn't make sense.
100%
The strongest Constant is Love. The most powerful of emotions.

Why did Walt appear to Shannon, all wet and speaking backwards? It was Shannon because of the shared emotional connection with Vincent.

You are going to cry when you realize what happened in Raised By Another and ATBCHDI, if you have love in your hearts.

Do not be surprised when Sawyer sees his parents.

The Whispers Are Beautiful.

Emotional continuity.

Good vibrations.

Love is not the constant, someone or something is the constant. That is unless you are saying Daniel LOVES Desmond who is his constant.

Goldfoot

02-29-2008, 12:37 PM

Only read the first two pages, so I'm sorry if this has been mentioned.

Regarding the flashbacks being a character's conscious moving back in time to resolve an issue, I'm not sure that's the case. If so then a character would completely blank out for x minutes 4 times a day, every day (almost). I'm fairly sure somebody would have noticed that.
I've made similar points and so have others, yet a lot of people seem to only be reading the stuff they agree with, even though it doesn't really make sense. That or they are only reading the first post and then replying, ignoring the fact that this is a two sided discussion. Worrying about all the character's constants, even though none of them need them because they weren't exposed to high levels of radiation or electromagnetism. That and the fact that unless Daniel is around, they wouldn't know to use their constant.

Sam G

02-29-2008, 12:44 PM

Didn't Danielle say that they were on the island for 2 months before anything happened? After they found the radio tower, coming back from the Black Rock.

elfdream

02-29-2008, 01:41 PM

Sorry if this has been covered but in regards to Danielle's 'sickeness'.

Her team went to the Black rock and apparently were fine..on their way back they met the 'others' whom she said were 'carriers' (and how could conscience jumping whatever cause Montard to loose his arm?). Apparently the sickness symptoms didnt start until after they returned. Right or wrong.. She thought the 'others' had triggered it.

Now were the 'others' affected by the shifts in time? Are they all each other's 'constants'? Were they around during that 'earlier' incident? Were they all living in the 'hatches' and perhaps escaped exposure?

And of course there was the Dharma people. Did they 'endure' this 'shifting?

We seem to forgot that there were a bunch of other people on the island at one time or another and it would be nice if we find out what happened with them.

Does this account for people 'seeing' people? Perhaps they were affected when the plane was brought down but not as badly as Desmond..therefore they suffered only slight side affects. I drink one beer and certain minor physical things start to happen but my friend drinks three six packs and certain MAJOR physical things start to happen..Jack shifted a tiny bit and saw his dad etc etc....

LostLaura

02-29-2008, 02:34 PM

Didn't Danielle say that they were on the island for 2 months before anything happened? After they found the radio tower, coming back from the Black Rock.

Radiation at the radio tower? Any chance of that?

Sorry if this has been covered but in regards to Danielle's 'sickeness'.

Her team went to the Black rock and apparently were fine..on their way back they met the 'others' whom she said were 'carriers' (and how could conscience jumping whatever cause Montard to loose his arm?). Apparently the sickness symptoms didnt start until after they returned. Right or wrong.. She thought the 'others' had triggered it.

Now were the 'others' affected by the shifts in time? Are they all each other's 'constants'? Were they around during that 'earlier' incident? Were they all living in the 'hatches' and perhaps escaped exposure?

And of course there was the Dharma people. Did they 'endure' this 'shifting?

We seem to forgot that there were a bunch of other people on the island at one time or another and it would be nice if we find out what happened with them.

Does this account for people 'seeing' people? Perhaps they were affected when the plane was brought down but not as badly as Desmond..therefore they suffered only slight side affects. I drink one beer and certain minor physical things start to happen but my friend drinks three six packs and certain MAJOR physical things start to happen..Jack shifted a tiny bit and saw his dad etc etc....

So here's the thing, and your questions are all really, really good, Elf: we don't know how much of Danielle's story to trust. So did she think the Others caused it? Yes. But that doesn't mean they did. She was scared and pregnant and then alone and her baby was kidnapped and it'd been 16 years.... I mean, we all know how fickle memory is. And when we believe something, it can change the memory. So the sickness might not be related to the Others at all.

I have no explanation for how Montand lost his arm, except that maybe he lost consciousness during a time shift and something bad happened to him during that time. Who knows.

I believe that they are many different phenomenons happening on the island, so I don't think that the sickness has to relate to seeing visions, hearing whispers, etc. I think they can be separate issues.

Goldfoot, I am not sure why you are being so negative. I have read all of the posts where people disagree, but that doesn't mean I agree with them. I think that the FBs (excluding Desmond) are primarly narrative devices. Always have been. Always will be. But I think, knowing what we now know about Desmond, that those FBs are also a small-scale representation of what Des is going through and that they are all going through to a small extent. Again, they were all exposed to some level of radiation when Des didn't press the button and the plane was brought down. And then again when the sky turned purple and the hatch exploded. Those were hugely significant events. I don't think anyone else will be affected like Desmond is. I think that's his plot point for this show, and the other Losties won't have this problem. But the Constant is also a metaphor on this show, and therefore I see no reason why we should not theorize on the metaphorical constants for the other characters.

andy_candy

02-29-2008, 02:53 PM

Whatz with the eye references? Sorry but I didnt get it. Will you plz care to explain?

Referring to the doctor looking in Desmond's eyes and the connection to the time traveling, I think.

I got that part. But what is it referring to? The scene opening with an eye? Is that?
If yes, then how does it relate????

Atticus_

02-29-2008, 04:07 PM

Couldn't they all be each other's constants? Sayid asked shannon to look after his bag, jack talked to anna lucia, jin saw jack argue with someone... not to mention the losties have met before crash in some cases. Could be wrong though as I'm not quite sure how well you have to know someone for them to be your constant.

lostorfound

02-29-2008, 04:23 PM

I've made similar points and so have others, yet a lot of people seem to only be reading the stuff they agree with, even though it doesn't really make sense. That or they are only reading the first post and then replying, ignoring the fact that this is a two sided discussion. Worrying about all the character's constants, even though none of them need them because they weren't exposed to high levels of radiation or electromagnetism. That and the fact that unless Daniel is around, they wouldn't know to use their constant.
I think your post is being read, however your question has been answered. According to this connection between a FB and time travel that is being discussed: the Losties FB's are the extreme minimal version of Desmond's.
I do agree however that discussion about each character's constant is fun, but futile as no one else NEEDS a constant.

Goldfoot

02-29-2008, 04:39 PM

I think your post is being read, however your question has been answered. According to this connection between a FB and time travel that is being discussed: the Losties FB's are the extreme minimal version of Desmond's.
I do agree however that discussion about each character's constant is fun, but futile as no one else NEEDS a constant.

If it's the extreme minimal version, how is it any different than a normal memory? I just don't see why there has to be an island induced reason for flashbacks. One of the main ideas of this ongoing story is that every person has a chance to begin again. If we weren't given flashbacks, we couldn't compare what we see on the show to their past. We would have no way of telling what kind of progress, if any, that these characters are making. I believe that it is simply a plot device to allow us to relate to and care about these characters. I realize that some things are revealed on the island in conversations with other people, but there are some things in the flashbacks that are never discussed. Some things we see in the flashbacks are significant enough that if the Losties were actually having those memories at the time we see them, it would change things. Prime example would be Libby watching Hurley get his picture taken. The fact that Hurley doesn't remember her there proves to me that this was something that only the viewers are shown. Plus, the introduction of flash forwards brings in to question why the four that have had them don't mention anything about it. Wouldn't Hurley be freaking out on the island if he had a flash of Charlie in the future? Wouldn't Kate wonder why she has Aaron?

LostLaura: I'm not trying to sound overly negative. I'm reading the posts too, and I disagree. That is why I bring up the points I am. I will admit that my reply to Miss Aly is very negative and I probably should have thought about how I wanted to word it before I actually posted it. It just seems to me that there is a lot of evidence to suggest that the FBs/FFs are only there for our benefit and that they don't actually affect the characters.

jscimeca715

02-29-2008, 04:52 PM

I'm trying really hard to agree with the people who think that every survivor of flight 815 are going through a watered-down version of Desmond but I have to disagree. I'm going to try and lay it out in points so that they can be argued seperately if needed.

1. As stated before, nobody else recognizes that they are experiencing those flashbacks. Desmonds 2004 mind is confused because he believes that he's his 1996 mind. None of the other survivors are going crazy in the future. Now, to argue the other side it could be dependent on the amount of radiation/em but it's doubtful in my eyes. Two things to add: I think TPTB know that we're already confused with one time jumper. I think that it's an isolated incident. The interesting person is Locke, if he tries to leave the island who knows what will happen.

2. Something else I just thought of: The Sickness doesn't happen to Desmond until he leaves the island. We've seen the flash forwards for Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Ben and Kate (plus Aaron.) I think it's safe to say that none of them caught The Sickness because they are fine in the future. An argument to give regarding the plausibility of this being "The Sickness" that Danielle spoke of is this: We really need to know if her team tried to leave the island again. If they tried to leave the island again by whatever means and failed then it's possible that they went mad and killed each other when they ultimately failed and came back to the island.

3. I'm going to have to argue against Danielle and Claire not catching The Sickness because they were pregnant. I don't think there is enough evidence yet, we'll need to see a Rousseau flashback first. Just to add to this, if they are okay because they were pregnant then Alex and Aaron are in big trouble.

4. The only other thing I'll present is that the theory of time jumping and The Sickness probably correlate with Course Correction. I don't really have a way to connect them, I'm hoping you guys can, but Desmonds character has had everything to do with the TIME mythology of Lost and I can't imagine the writers don't want to make that connection.

5. I consider this the best Lost episode of the series. That is probably the only thing that I'm sure of on this post.
100%
If it's the extreme minimal version, how is it any different than a normal memory? I just don't see why there has to be an island induced reason for flashbacks. One of the main ideas of this ongoing story is that every person has a chance to begin again. If we weren't given flashbacks, we couldn't compare what we see on the show to their past. We would have no way of telling what kind of progress, if any, that these characters are making. I believe that it is simply a plot device to allow us to relate to and care about these characters. I realize that some things are revealed on the island in conversations with other people, but there are some things in the flashbacks that are never discussed. Some things we see in the flashbacks are significant enough that if the Losties were actually having those memories at the time we see them, it would change things. Prime example would be Libby watching Hurley get his picture taken. The fact that Hurley doesn't remember her there proves to me that this was something that only the viewers are shown. Plus, the introduction of flash forwards brings in to question why the four that have had them don't mention anything about it. Wouldn't Hurley be freaking out on the island if he had a flash of Charlie in the future? Wouldn't Kate wonder why she has Aaron?

LostLaura: I'm not trying to sound overly negative. I'm reading the posts too, and I disagree. That is why I bring up the points I am. I will admit that my reply to Miss Aly is very negative and I probably should have thought about how I wanted to word it before I actually posted it. It just seems to me that there is a lot of evidence to suggest that the FBs/FFs are only there for our benefit and that they don't actually affect the characters.

Goldfoot, I think that we're definitely in the minority, I think the tone of your posts is throwing people off. I do agree with you though. I remember hearing in Damon and Carltons podcast a while ago that sometimes "a bracelet is just a bracelet"...I think in this case...except for desmond...a flashback is just a flashback.

EricGunn

02-29-2008, 05:05 PM

jscimeca715

02-29-2008, 05:10 PM

Ok, can I clarify something or get clarified on something?

Are there 2 sicknesses?

The "timetravelling" sickness Des and Minkowsky have/had, and some are having fun speculating perhaps Danielle Rousseau's team fell ill to?

and...

The "pregnancy" sickness Juliet was brought to the Island to try and cure?

The brain's EM disruption passing the EM field was described as a sickness due to radiation exposure. I loved reading the first 8 pages of posts, ideas and speculations. But is it THE sickness we have been hinted at? I'm not so sure, although I love reading this thread to convince me otherwise!

Love this discussion as much as I loved the episode.
Eric

Good point, I definitely think we are talking about two different things. But here's something that might make sense. Desmond is experiencing a sickness, the pregnant women are experiences a virus/infection. Desmond's sickness causes the brain to go crazy from confusion and rupture whereas the pregnancy infection physically attacks the body. Hope this helps.

Wanted to add something else...the pregnancy infection only happens to people who get pregnant on the island, which I think is unrelated to time. Whereas the Desmond sickness is related to leaving and passing through the wormhole or whatever it is.

Goldfoot

02-29-2008, 05:31 PM

Goldfoot, I think that we're definitely in the minority, I think the tone of your posts is throwing people off. I do agree with you though. I remember hearing in Damon and Carltons podcast a while ago that sometimes "a bracelet is just a bracelet"...I think in this case...except for desmond...a flashback is just a flashback.

I realize that now, but I guess this is just how I talk. I think this is one case where people are looking way too much into it. Not saying I haven't done the same with other issues, but this storyline is intriguing enough and it's only ever related to Desmond until this episode. But even in this episode Daniel mentions high doses of EM radiation as a factor.

Saphiamond

02-29-2008, 08:03 PM

Random thought:

It seems to me that you can increase your odds of staying PERFECTLY on course by means of underwater travel (aka submarine) instead of aerial transport (helicopter, airplaine...or even dingy/boat) I believe this is why the sub was mainly used to take people on and off island. A sub would be far less likely to be affected by an an intense storm/barrier...and winds....could this be related to why the freighter won't approach the island by sea but has otherwise sent 2 helicopters? Rather than risking the whole boat/cargo/equipment/people...they risk a small number, though dangerous.

Your thoughts?

LOST Granny

02-29-2008, 08:08 PM

Wow, the sickness... Holy crap.

This episode is kicking my face in.

me too...face kicked in...

herrdokter

02-29-2008, 08:19 PM

so I am reading people think the flash backs are now the same thing has what desmond had happen to him in the episode, well I totally disagree - no one in there flash back said anything about the island, no one passed out, no one found there constant. Someone would have said hey man I just thought I was back in 1994, and then everyone else would be like OMFG same is happening to me. So in the end, Flash backs arent the same as what just happened with Desmond.

Siobhan

02-29-2008, 11:32 PM

I agree with herrdoktor and others about the flashbacks. And, about the sickness, if what happened to Minkowski and Desmond is the same as the "sickness" that infected Rousseau's team why would it make her believe it was so bad that she had to kill them all. During their non-time shifting moments wouldn't they have discussed what was happening? Even if they were acting really screwy I don't see anything about their behavior that would lead someone to think they all needed to be killed. Also, this sickness seems to onset and kill someone relatively quickly so why would Rousseau need to kill them.

jjraabe

03-01-2008, 12:36 AM

I love the idea of having the losties flashbacks and desmond's time travels, but I think that they are only related by metaphor, meaning the flashbacks are not actually side effects for the losties.

I'm a film major, so not only was I freaking out about all the LOST stuff, I was jumping up and down when they transitioned between Des's two time references, using something called a match cut.

A match cut is a cut that matches the action of the first shot to the second. A basic example, if anyone ever watched studio 60 (they did this a ton), you'd be following a character walking from the side and they go through a door way, the camera keeps moving and you're on the other side of the door, but they've actually transitioned to a new scene and its a different door with a different character entering through a doorway. It's super slick and hard to pull off, and it looks amazing.

You'll notice that when we cut between 2004 and 1996 Des, we use all match cuts, to show for Des, there is no transition from his point of reference, he's all of a sudden somewhere else, disoriented. For example, the other soldier bumps into Des, he drops his change and bends down to pick it up, and BAM he's grasping at nothing on the deck floor of the freighter. My favorite example is when he was Des was running down some stairs and he falls and midfall, the camera barely moves, but you see the background shift and he's in the other time period (I can't remember the specific transition but I'm looking for it.)

In terms of the "disease" I personally believe it's something that's not contracted until you actually try to "leave" the island, and only if you've experience an abnormal amount of radio or EM activity. If we look at the Oceanic 6 so far, and the others we have seen off the Island, Jack, Hurley, Kate, and Ben were all on the other side of the island when the hatch exploded (Michael was trading them for Walt) and Sayid was with Jin and Sun on the sail boat sneaking into the fake other's camp. So far, all the people we have seen off the island were no where near the hatch when it exploded, so, since we have not seen them experiencing any temporal effects, I don't think it was ever an issue for them. They weren't exposed to as much or any EM from the hatch (this is a little odd, since EM is pretty strong and travels on and on, but we'll see.)

But what about Aaron? We see him off the island and he's on the beach! Well, at the beginning of "Live Together Die Alone" Claire is still giving Aaron those vaccines from the hatch that the Swan attendants were supposed to be taking every 9 days, and claire has been sticking to that regimen with Aaron. Desmond comments that he gave up on that. Possibly, this vaccine was to fight all the EM exposure the hatch attendants would get during their shift in the swan, so that they could be extracted without any complications.

So if Aaron has been receiving the "vaccine," i think it supports that he makes it off the island fine.

I think Oceanic tries to save everyone and take them off the island, but something happens, or they're ignorant, they leave on the wrong heading, and all the the losties on the beach during the time of the hatch explosion start "shifting" like Desmond, and eventually die because NOW they need a constant but can't find it. That's why Jack and the other Oceanic 6 are sticking to the story that they were the only one's that survived, AND why Oceanic has lawyers all over the place