So it's December 24 on the Island and in London. Can we finally put the whole "Slow Time on the Island" boloney to rest?

I was just going to post a thread asking about this. I don't understand it. Why is it Dec. 24th in all locations? And is it REALLY Dec 24th on the freighter or did they just have a calendar up from 2004 b/c they knew that's what time it would be on the island?

If it's not slow time, then how do you explain the 31 minute issue with the rocket thingy?

Please help. I'm so confused!

So it's December 24 on the Island and in London. Can we finally put the whole "Slow Time on the Island" boloney to rest?
Well...all I can think of at the moment, and of course I kid, is: "My bologna has a first name...it's O-S-C-A-R...My bologna has a second name it's M-A-Y-E-R...Ohhhh, I love to eat it everyday and if you ask me why I'll sayyyyyy...cause Oscar Mayer has a way with B-O-L-O-G-N-A..." (<>..<>)

P>S> The time dilation may not be functional anymore with the demise of the swan...it kinda seemed that the wheels may have come off of that with everything going all white light/purple sky thing...

Forget the Freighter calendar. Penny was standing next to a Christmas tree talking to Desmond on the phone like he told her to expect to happen on Dec 24, 2004.

And that's what happened.

As for the 31 minute difference, that has no bearing (pardon the pun) on anything. It only affect things passing through the barrier. you send a clock through it and it jumps ahead, so it's out of sync. but the clocks on and off the Island in the meantime stay in sync.

In my mind the reason there wasn't a time difference from the boat to England. Is the boat is outside the range of the island. That's the barrier the helicopter had to travel through. So yes the time is the same they are no longer on the island. The whole "slow time" idea or whatever you want to call it would be shown in the difference for Jack/Juliet/and the rest on the island from when the helicopter took off it was a day for them, where it didn't seem to be nearly that for Desmond and Sayid.

Just an idea.

Ugh, I still need help from the master time theory understanders of this board.

Forget the Freighter calendar. Penny was standing next to a Christmas tree talking to Desmond on the phone like he told her to expect to happen on Dec 24, 2004.

And that's what happened.

As for the 31 minute difference, that has no bearing (pardon the pun) on anything. It only affect things passing through the barrier. you send a clock through it and it jumps ahead, so it's out of sync. but the clocks on and off the Island in the meantime stay in sync.

Totally agree things move slower when they pass through the barrier around the island.

In my mind the reason there wasn't a time difference from the boat to England. Is the boat is outside the range of the island. That's the barrier the helicopter had to travel through. So yes the time is the same they are no longer on the island. The whole "slow time" idea or whatever you want to call it would be shown in the difference for Jack/Juliet/and the rest on the island from when the helicopter took off it was a day for them, where it didn't seem to be nearly that for Desmond and Sayid.

Just an idea.

Thank you, that's exactly what I thought. From what we know, it is apparently Christmas Eve on the freighter which would match up with what the Losties thought it was for a date but they're obviously still experiencing time differently or the "overnight" (and then some) chopper trip would have ended up with the chopper running out of fuel and them becoming shark bait...

didn't sayid see the same calender?

island time=london time

the time difference exists in travel only.

Don't have the exact quote, but Daniel said something like the way you perceive time on the island is different.

Ugh, I still need help from the master time theory understanders of this board.

Well, lucky for you, I am one. (just look at my username!)

Here's the deal. The events of the episode take place on December 24, 2004. This is true of Penny in London, Desmond on the boat and Jack and Juliet on the Island.
In any other show, this would be what you expect. They crashed on September 22, 2004, they've been on the Island for 98 days, which puts them at Dec 24, 2004. No big deal, it's Dec 24, 2004 everywhere.

So where does it get screwy? WHEN THEY APPROACH OR LEAVE THE ISLAND!

The rocket approached the Island on a certain bearing that resulted in a 31 minute time difference.
Sayid, Frank, and Desmond Leave the Island and are forced off their bearing by the storm, and as a result, as Sayid observed, "we left the Island at dusk, and now it's the middle of the day."

In other words, passing through the Snowglobe sends you through time by an amount decided by bearing, but time on and off the Island remain synced.
100%
Don't have the exact quote, but Daniel said something like the way you perceive time on the island is different.

Get the exact quote, it is quite different from what you just suggested.

Well, lucky for you, I am one. (just look at my username!)

Here's the deal. The events of the episode take place on December 24, 2004. This is true of Penny in London, Desmond on the boat and Jack and Juliet on the Island.
In any other show, this would be what you expect. They crashed on September 22, 2004, they've been on the Island for 98 days, which puts them at Dec 24, 2004. No big deal, it's Dec 24, 2004 everywhere.

So where does it get screwy? WHEN THEY APPROACH OR LEAVE THE ISLAND!

The rocket approached the Island on a certain bearing that resulted in a 31 minute time difference.
Sayid, Frank, and Desmond Leave the Island and are forced off their bearing by the storm, and as a result, as Sayid observed, "we left the Island at dusk, and now it's the middle of the day."

In other words, passing through the Snowglobe sends you through time by an amount decided by bearing, but time on and off the Island remain synced.

Ok, SO: depending on what path you take through the snowglobe will shift your in time. How much can you shift? Years? Clarification: island time is not slow. Time travel is possible.
Yes?


Get the exact quote, it is quite different from what you just suggested. Spare me and just tell me what it is? :smile:

So it's kind of like spinning a glass upside down in a pitcher of water? The water outside the glass and the water inside the glass aren't affected by the motion of the glass itself, but stay in relative relationship to each other because they are in fact the same?

There was a thread from last show about the time difference. It is Dec. 24, 2004, on the Island, but it is Dec. 24, 2007, off the island. Do you age when you sync? Aaron looked 3 years old in last week's show, and Penny has been looking for Desmond for 3 years (or has he been on the Island for 3 actual years?).

There was a thread from last show about the time difference. It is Dec. 24, 2004, on the Island, but it is Dec. 24, 2007, off the island. Do you age when you sync? Aaron looked 3 years old in last week's show, and Penny has been looking for Desmond for 3 years (or has he been on the Island for 3 actual years?).

But off the island was a flash forward - showing what happens in the future, wasn't it?

didn't sayid say he didn't realize it was so close to Christmas? Was a that a clue? or is it still the same time on the island?

How far in the future? The Oceanic 6 get off the Island, Kate goes into custody, and there is a trial. It could take three years to go to trial, I guess.

Ok, SO: depending on what path you take through the snowglobe will shift your in time. How much can you shift? Years? Clarification: island time is not slow. Time travel is possible.
Yes?

Spare me and just tell me what it is? :smile:

If by time travel you mean different perceptions ;) of time then yes.

Which leads to what Daniel said:

"Your perception of how long your friends have been gone...its not necessarily how long they've actually been gone."

This means that Jack is worried because they've been gone for a day, but the guys on the copter are only experienceing a 20 min flight. Hence no need to worry about the fuel.

We don't know that it was Dec. 24 in London. People put up Christmas trees somewhere close to Christmas Day and take them down sometime later...

Nor for that matter do we know what day it is on the island, since - as was said above - the ship might be outside the island's time field.

And those multi-colored X's on the ship's calendar are a reminder that time's screwy..

(I typed this all out, hit post, and lost it all because of "high traffic." Wow... one more time.)

After Sayid's episode I came to the conclusion that time "moved slower" on the island. It explained Walt's growth, it explained Richard's non-growth, it explained the rocket experiement between Regina and Daniel. It made sense, there were some holes, but overall, if you thought about it hard enough, it made sense.

But tonight?!?! Explain the helicopter; nearly a day and a half passed in Jack's world when only twenty minutes passed in Sayid and Desmond's world. Explain the calendar; clearly it is the exact same time in both worlds - Christmas Eve.

I've heard other people say that time moves faster on the island, and Richard doesn't age because he spends most of his time off-island, in "normal time." But this completely contradicts Walt's obvious, off-island growth. Also, we know that Danielle has been there for sixteen years, her signal was broadcast for sixteen years, and she has a sixteen-year old daughter.

Clearly, neither theory is "the one." Does anyone have any ideas?

Not really! But I'm thinking there's a clue in the way Daniel says "Your PERCEPTION of how long your friends have been gone...."

I don't know exactly what that's supposed to mean but it just makes me think that their perceptions of time may be different but not necessarily that time is different.

Yeah. But then. If time isn't different. I'm so confused about Richard's non-growth, and Walt's super-growth. I want answers.

Ugh, I still need help from the master time theory understanders of this board.


Well, I won't claim to be a "master time theory understander," but I will give you my two cents on the issue. The way I see it is like this: if you draw to circles side by side and touching but not overlapping, I think that is a good way to look at it. When you leave one circle, being the island and the eloctromagnetic bubble that seems to encomposs the area surrounding the island, and going into the other circle, the rest of the world. When you cross the line where the two circles touch, the barrier, there are leaps of time... If one were to map out the barrier line they could place number indicating how much time would be jumped. If you hit the sweet spot, then you don't jump any time.

This is how I have looked at the wholet thing but tonights episode seems to indicate that the sweet spot is actually a spot at which you can cross the barrier w/o serious :"side effects." The chopper didn't hit the sweet spot, so it kicked off Daniels unsticking his consciousness from time.
I don't know if this helped, but it did help me to sort out all these new thoughts for myself, so thanks for allowing me to get that out. Hope it helped.

Because they are stuck in time.

I heard somewhere (probably right here actually) that the mass of an object would determine how much it gets displaced in time as the result of going through the "barrier", and that's why radio waves wouldn't be affected, since they have no mass.

It's probably something along the lines of objects "disappearing" as they hit the barrier, and not reappearing for some time. In the case of the rocket, which as a relatively small mass, it would only be "gone" for 31 minutes, but something like a pallet drop with a much greater mass might be "gone" for decades. And a helicopter, not sure how its mass would compare to that of a pallet.

31 minutes is not part of the equation; it is merely one possible outcome of the equation.

didn't sayid say he didn't realize it was so close to Christmas? Was a that a clue? or is it still the same time on the island?Being muslim I doubt Sayid keeps close track of things like that.

I'm voting for no time difference.

There could still be slow time. There has been no indication from the Losties that they think it is near Christmas. Sayid was surprised to see it was so close to Christmas. As far as the Losties are concerned, they may have only been on the island a month or two. There is not enough info to say, but from the data we do have does lean MORE towards slow time on the island. Consider:
1. The rocket clocks were different indicating slow time.
2. The helicopter trip seemed like a long time to the Losties.
3. Faraday explained that Island time may not be as it seems.
4. Sayid did not know it was near Christmas.
5. No one on the Island has mentioned Christmas.

5. No one on the Island has mentioned Christmas.Actually last week, Jack told Frank he hadn't seen a ball game in 100 days.

Actually last week, Jack told Frank he hadn't seen a ball game in 100 days.
Good point, but we don't know how long before the flight Jack last saw a game. He had been in Austrailia so he probably wasn't watching baseball there.

There could still be slow time. There has been no indication from the Losties that they think it is near Christmas. Sayid was surprised to see it was so close to Christmas. As far as the Losties are concerned, they may have only been on the island a month or two. There is not enough info to say, but from the data we do have does lean MORE towards slow time on the island. Consider:
1. The rocket clocks were different indicating slow time.
2. The helicopter trip seemed like a long time to the Losties.
3. Faraday explained that Island time may not be as it seems.
4. Sayid did not know it was near Christmas.
5. No one on the Island has mentioned Christmas.

I believe Sayid said he did not realize how close to Christmas it was..... Being on an Isolated island I am sure it would be real easy to lose track of the date. Only on the island a month or 2? They all realize how long it has been when they meet the tailies. I doubt Rose would forget how many days it has been since she saw her husband. Faraday said their perception of time was different.

I don't think the island runs on slow time,i think the island exists outside of time.If they had left the island on a different bearing,they would have arrived in 1998,or 2008,or 3008

As for the 31 minute difference, that has no bearing (pardon the pun) on anything. It only affect things passing through the barrier. you send a clock through it and it jumps ahead, so it's out of sync. but the clocks on and off the Island in the meantime stay in sync.

Yes! My husband and I were just discussing this very same idea. There is no time difference between the island and the outside world. That's why people on the freighter and the island were able to communicate over the phone, that's why the calendar on the freighter matches the date on the island, and that's why Penny was waiting for Desmond's call.

The time differences happen when passing through the bubble/barrier. In that barrier, time moves slower. So while it might have only felt like a 20 minute helicopter ride, significantly more time passed. That's why Sayid was confused about the time of day when they arrived on the freighter and why Jack and Juliet were worried about how long it had been since the helicopter left.

I dont believe it is Slow Time. I think the electromagnetism has somehow shifted their conciousness, RE: Desmond.
I don't know if any of you ever watched a SciFi series called Babylon5, it was a space type series set something like 250 years in the future. The basis of the science in the series was that it was real science. Ships in space moved according to the use of their propellent system, no banked turns like StarTrek. At any rate, they adopted HyperSpace use for getting around the Galaxy. There was jump points all around and you simply flew to a jump point, activated it and flew into the wormhole. While inside the wormhole you were in hyper space. Obviously travel time was reduced considerably, but it still took time to go, it wasn't instantaneous. The whole idea was that you were able to lock on to beacons at the jump points so you didn't get "lost" in hyperspace.
There was an episode where a fighter type ship was lost in hyperspace, and a bunch of others formed a chain from the beacon to the lost ship to retrieve it.
This is what I believe the anomoly is between the island and the real world. I believe that the Flight815 in the trench IS Flight815, as well as on the island.

I don't think the island runs on slow time,i think the island exists outside of time.If they had left the island on a different bearing,they would have arrived in 1998,or 2008,or 3008
They did leave on a different bearing (325 vs 305 maybe???). The result was the Desmond "side effect".

1. The rocket clocks were different indicating slow time.
2. The helicopter trip seemed like a long time to the Losties.
3. Faraday explained that Island time may not be as it seems.
4. Sayid did not know it was near Christmas.
5. No one on the Island has mentioned Christmas.

1. Indicating <i>something</i>. Don't jump to conclusions, I already did that after episode 3, and now I don't believe in "slow time."

2. Yeah? So if that indicated any kind of time, it would indicate FAST time on the island. Instead, it indicates neither. Something happens during travel, but you still pop out of the "barrier" in real time - regardless of how much time was lost.

3. Listen to his quote again.

4. So?

5. So? We have a documented number of days they've been on the island... it is Christmas Eve on the island, it is Christmas Eve off the island.

They did leave on a different bearing (325 vs 305 maybe???). The result was the Desmond "side effect".


The copter left on 305 and arrived in 2004

Michael and Walt left on 325,and we don't know where or when they are.My belief is that they arrived in 2000,and have been waiting for 4 years to go back and rescue the Losties.

5. So? We have a documented number of days they've been on the island... it is Christmas Eve on the island, it is Christmas Eve off the island.
I didn't see documentation of either tonight.
It's Christmas Even on the boat, I think. Beyond that it was kind of murky. Maybe, maybe not. Typical Lost.

Michael and Walt left on 325,and we don't know where or when they are.My belief is that they arrived in 2000,and have been waiting for 4 years to go back and rescue the Losties.Well, I guess that will be the telling point in the time issue.

I didn't see documentation of either tonight.
It's Christmas Even on the boat, I think. Beyond that it was kind of murky. Maybe, maybe not. Typical Lost.
By "we" I mean us super-freaks who literally have a calendar of every day and everything that has happened during every day. IIRC, we are on Day 98. Go to lostpedia.com.

I'm saying the same thing in three different threads right now... there is no time difference on/off-island. None.

I thought there was too, two episodes ago... but it doesn't make sense anymore.
100%
I didn't see documentation of either tonight.
It's Christmas Even on the boat, I think. Beyond that it was kind of murky. Maybe, maybe not. Typical Lost.
It was Christmas Eve in Penny's living room. Don't say, "Well, it could have been close to Christmas." Why? Because that would be ridiculous story-telling. That would make the time difference mere days, a month at most. Wow. Besides. On top of all of that, Desmond said he would call Penny on Christmas Eve of 2004. He did.

No. Time. Difference.

Ok... I had some thoughts but now that I've read through all the posts, I'm in over my head here.....

What in the world is going on?

Ok... nevermind, I think I just got it....

So, basically, what people are saying is, based on the timeline we have, it's 12/24/04 on the Island, and that is our frame of reference, and since they followed a bearing *close* to the one that Dan told them to, their time travel as they flew to the boat was minimal... about half a day... landing them, temporally, also on 12/24/04 *off-Island*.... Correct?

So, theoretically, since Dan's rocket was only 31 minutes off... rather than half a day, it followed a path closer to the "correct" bearing that Dan told Frank to follow. (And by the "correct" bearing, I mean the one that would cause minimal time travel....)

This is all so confusing to think about... but cool, though!:) We really did get *a lot* of food for thought in this episode... on a lot of different levels of the ongoing story!!!

Damon Lindelof (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Damon_Lindelof): It’s interesting that you should ask about time because… you know… you’re making a basic assumption that they’ve been there, y’know, as long as they think they’ve been there. [Crowd murmurs, someone says “Oh, no.”] I would say by the end of Season 3… that very different idea…

That to me indicates some kind of time difference. Everyone that I saw in here saying that there is no difference in how time passes due to the same dates both on and off the island are assuming there are 24 hours in a day on the island. A full day on the island might be 6 hours as we knows it. I'm using those numbers as an example, but this is the theory I've come to after realizing earlier today that the date on the island that the plane crashed was Sept 22, just like the rest of the world.

Remember Jack's line to the stewardess in the flashforward: "Yeah, well 20 minutes is a long time..." As soon as he said it I knew he was telling us something there. I guess looking back he was...

Regardless of how fast 2 things are going there is still a start point. Start point for 2 objects is point 0. In 5 units of time, object A is now at distance 10, object B is now at distance 5. No matter how long or far they go, they both started at the same spot, and at the same time (0). But throw all that out the window, because while their conciousness is shifted on the island, thus Faraday's "perception" line, you still lose time while penetrating the wall of the "Snow globe", because of the thickness or whatever the reason is. Time on the island: Dec 24th, 2004, Time off the island: Dec24th, 2004.

from Lostpedia

According to the calendar on the wall, as well as Desmond, the real-time events of this episode take place on Day 94 (Christmas Eve), continuing the timeline established in The Economist (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Economist), when Sayid, Desmond and Frank left the island. This means that while it is Day 94 on the Freighter, it is actually Day 96 on the Island.

from Lostpedia

According to the calendar on the wall, as well as Desmond, the real-time events of this episode take place on Day 94 (Christmas Eve), continuing the timeline established in The Economist (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Economist), when Sayid, Desmond and Frank left the island. This means that while it is Day 94 on the Freighter, it is actually Day 96 on the Island.
Isn't it the same day, the same "real time"? Jack and Sayid did talk on the phone... it's just that Jack's perception of how much time passed is different, which I certainly do not fully understand.

No slow time?

Isn't it a possibility that the 24 hours the losties experience on the island (which seem normal to them) would actually be a longer passing of time off the island? Yeah they crashed on September 22nd, but as time progresses on and off the island, it is a possibility that on the island, time is just going slower...

And yeah on the boat which apparently is OFF the boundaries of the island's properties, it is Christmas Eve, but you guys are just assuming that it's Christmas Eve on the island... There are no calendars or working watches or anything to show us that it is indeed Christmas Eve on the island... IF they actually tracked their days on the island, and came to a mathematical equation that led them to actually calculate when it would be Christmas Eve, I'm pretty sure that by the time it IS Christmas Eve on the island, that off the island Christmas Eve would have passed a while ago...

No slow time?

Isn't it a possibility that the 24 hours the losties experience on the island (which seem normal to them) would actually be a longer passing of time off the island? Yeah they crashed on September 22nd, but as time progresses on and off the island, it is a possibility that on the island, time is just going slower...

And yeah on the boat which apparently is OFF the boundaries of the island's properties, it is Christmas Eve, but you guys are just assuming that it's Christmas Eve on the island... There are no calendars or working watches or anything to show us that it is indeed Christmas Eve on the island... IF they actually tracked their days on the island, and came to a mathematical equation that led them to actually calculate when it would be Christmas Eve, I'm pretty sure that by the time it IS Christmas Eve on the island, that off the island Christmas Eve would have passed a while ago...
I know I've said this in a half-dozen threads now... but we know it's Christmas Eve on the island as well, mostly because of us (the viewers) tracking the days since the crash. Go to Lostpedia.

You're not understanding me...

By the time it does actually get to be Christmas Eve on the island, which would appear to be normal 24 hour days... It actually ends up being alot later in "off island time"...

Isn't it the same day, the same "real time"? Jack and Sayid did talk on the phone... it's just that Jack's perception of how much time passed is different, which I certainly do not fully understand.
If Jack and Sayid have different perceptions of how much time has passed, how could they be in the same time 'frame'?
Doesn't that mean the ship and island are in two different time frames?

You're not understanding me...

By the time it does actually get to be Christmas Eve on the island, which would appear to be normal 24 hour days... It actually ends up being alot later in "off island time"...
I understand. I just disagree. I believe that Desmond/Sayid and Jack are in the same "real time" right now. Desmond and Sayid just lost time. (Mittelos, anyone?) Besides, the two "sides" did talk on the phone.

If Jack and Sayid have different perceptions of how much time has passed, how could they be in the same time 'frame'?
Doesn't that mean the ship and island are in two different time frames?

In Jack's mind the chopper was gone a day. In Sayid's mind it was gone like 20 minutes, but it went from being dusk to the middle of the day. It was light out for both Jack and Sayid so they were talking at the same time, it just seemed to pass differently to each of them.

Damon Lindelof (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Damon_Lindelof): It’s interesting that you should ask about time because… you know… you’re making a basic assumption that they’ve been there, y’know, as long as they think they’ve been there..
And Cuse said the rocket experiment "established a time differential on the island (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20179125_4,00.html)".

I believe there is a Time differential getting to the island. Farraday stated that Jack's "perception" of time on the island is different. Therefore imo it is the same day.

The guy who played Minkowski (Fisher Stevens) was also in Bill & Teds Excellent Adventure and My Science Project, both Time related movies.

If Jack and Sayid have different perceptions of how much time has passed, how could they be in the same time 'frame'?
Doesn't that mean the ship and island are in two different time frames?

We might see some fall-out from that in a future episode. I doubt it will be anytime soon because I think this issue is at the heart of the mystery of the show and the mystery of the Island.

The point right now is, the three on the helicopter DON'T KNOW how much time has passed on the Island since they left it and subsequently arrived on the Freighter. They have lost 1 1/2 days and don't know it.

From both the POV of the Freighter and the POV of the Island, it took the helicopter 1 1/2 days to make the journey. So the two places are in the same time "frame." It's the people who travelled who are now out of sync. Sayid, Frank and Desmond are now 1 1/2 days YOUNGER than everyone on the Island and everyone on the Freighter.

Desmond has no clue since he thinks it 1996. Frank might have an inkling about what happend during the flight. So might Sayid, but he's not 100% sure how long he's been on the Island. A day or two difference wouldn't be that significant to him.

But Daniel is the only one who knows for sure that the helicopter lost time while travelling from the Island to the Freighter.

I was just going to post a thread asking about this. I don't understand it. Why is it Dec. 24th in all locations? And is it REALLY Dec 24th on the freighter or did they just have a calendar up from 2004 b/c they knew that's what time it would be on the island?

If it's not slow time, then how do you explain the 31 minute issue with the rocket thingy?

Please help. I'm so confused!

maybe the time doesn't pass on a linear way on the island...
but in this case Desmond is not on the island anymore so i don't see the problem?

I was just going to post a thread asking about this. I don't understand it. Why is it Dec. 24th in all locations? And is it REALLY Dec 24th on the freighter or did they just have a calendar up from 2004 b/c they knew that's what time it would be on the island?

If it's not slow time, then how do you explain the 31 minute issue with the rocket thingy?

Please help. I'm so confused!

This episode established once and for all (as much as Lost ever establishes anything) that the rate of time on and off Island is constant. There is no slow time effect. One day on the Island equals one day in the Real World.

On this episode, it is December 24 on the Island and it is December 24 off the Island.

On the Island, time is constant. Off the Island, time is constant. The only time travel effect that can occur is as one passes THROUGH the barrier BETWEEN the Island and the Real World, and it depends on which bearing one takes either on the way in or on the way out.

The rocket's 31 missing minutes can be explained because the bearing by which it entered the Island caused it to move FORWARD in time, relative to the Island (and the Real World). The rocket did not take Daniel's bearing of 305. It took a different bearing. We don't know what that bearing is yet.

From the rocket's point of view, only 20 seconds passed. This is why it didn't run out of fuel before it reached the Island.

From the Island's (and Freighter) point of view, the rocket travelled forward in time 31 minutes. What's so confusing about it all is that the Losties DON'T KNOW about the barrier's ability to jump things back and forth through time. Daniel Farraday and Charlotte know, but from our Lostie's point of view, they don't know what the heck is going on, because they haven't been told about the special properties of the barrier.

Alright, I would need a precise estimate of how many days have passed on the island since Sep 22, 2004.

But... Have there ever been episodes where we caught up with the losties after a number of days had passed? I cannot say for sure but it certainly seemed to me that one episode = one day on island at most (less for season finales). If you can find a counter-example, please let me know.

But if this is the case, then we know the plane crashed on Sep 22, 2004. Now, we've had 3 X 22= 66 episodes in the first three seasons and 5 episodes in season 4. That's 71 episodes (again, finales count as one day). So... 09/22 plus 71 days would put you on Dec 3rd 2004. Thus, there would be a three weeks lag between the Island and the outside world. Ergo, Sayid's comment which was a dead give-away.

So if 93 days have passed in the outside world (Sep22 to Dec24), then the ratio would be 71 / 93 = 0,76. The outside world time is running 30% faster than island time. However, Daniel's rocket should have impacted within seconds, not minutes... Confusing, isn't it?

I know it's simplistic and fails to address the helicopter travel-time perception discrepencies as well as the phone conversation on and off the Island. However, while I'm clueless as to the first point, concerning the second I would say that phone transmissions are frequencies, therefore weightless... perhaps that would explain how phone transmissions can occur in what seems to be the same time-space when in fact they're calling from the future (from freighter) to the past (the Island). The discrepencies between these two time-frames would augment with time but since the freighties have "just" come into contact with the island, the time difference is not that bad... yet. Just wait until someone calls from the freighter as the sun rises and we find out that it's twilight on Island ;-)

Alright, I would need a precise estimate of how many days have passed on the island since Sep 22, 2004.

But... Have there ever been episodes where we caught up with the losties after a number of days had passed? I cannot say for sure but it certainly seemed to me that one episode = one day on island at most (less for season finales). If you can find a counter-example, please let me know.

But if this is the case, then we know the plane crashed on Sep 22, 2004. Now, we've had 3 X 22= 66 episodes in the first three seasons and 5 episodes in season 4. That's 71 episodes (again, finales count as one day). So... 09/22 plus 71 days would put you on Dec 3rd 2004. Thus, there would be a three weeks lag between the Island and the outside world. Ergo, Sayid's comment which was a dead give-away.

So if 93 days have passed in the outside world (Sep22 to Dec24), then the ratio would be 71 / 93 = 0,76. The outside world time is running 30% faster than island time. However, Daniel's rocket should have impacted within seconds, not minutes... Confusing, isn't it?

I know it's simplistic and fails to address the helicopter travel-time perception discrepencies as well as the phone conversation on and off the Island. However, while I'm clueless as to the first point, concerning the second I would say that phone transmissions are frequencies, therefore weightless... perhaps that would explain how phone transmissions can occur in what seems to be the same time-space when in fact they're calling from the future (from freighter) to the past (the Island). The discrepencies between these two time-frames would augment with time but since the freighties have "just" come into contact with the island, the time difference is not that bad... yet. Just wait until someone calls from the freighter as the sun rises and we find out that it's twilight on Island ;-)

I suggest you go here.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline

Whatever The Case May Be took two days according to the timeline.
Outlaws took three days.

Hope that helps :)

I'm sure that there is no error in the timeline of Lost. It is Christmas Eve on the island, freighter and in the real world. However, I believe that the rocket timing has to do with the bubble in which you enter and leave the island. Or at least is some aspect.
100%
Actually, I may be wrong.
Just looked at the last few episodes timeline.

Lostpedia says:

Day 94 - Friday, December 24th, 2004 (on the Island)/Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004 (off the Island) covers CD and The Economist

Day 95 - Saturday, December 25, 2004 (Christmas Day)(On the Island)/Thursday, December 23, 2004 (Off the Island) covers Eggtown

Day 96 - Sunday, December 26, 2004 (on the Island)/Friday, December 24th, 2004 (off the Island) covers Eggtown and The Constant.

Im confused...

Remember, when Des told Penny he would call her on Dec 24th, 2004, he knew this because he saw the calendar ON THE FREIGHTER.

So, I think there is no doubt that it is, in fact, 12/24/04 in "off the island" time.

Thinking back to the episode where they showed the taillies whole time on the island they did it by days and at that point were some 50 days or so on the island. With that as a bearing, it is completely reasonable to think that it is also, in fact, 12/24/04 ON THE ISLAND as well.


As others have said, I think the problem only comes when traveling on and off the island. This explains why the others would travel by submarine (as others have said), this probably kept them immune to the "side effects".

The real question to me is, why are none of the 815 castaways not experiencing any side effects? Are we to assume that the plane entered by that exact bearing?

Also, what is the explanation for the rocket? Did the rocket travel into the future by 31 minutes?

Lastly, what is the explanation for Sayid's dusk to daylight comment? Did the entire helicopter travel through time a little? I suppose we are also to assume that you can only travel in time like Des did if you were exposed to radiation. So, I guess what happened to the swan was some type of radioactive reaction.

Well no you cant because the calander was off island time... and when desmond called penny he was pff the island so hense, in real time.. not on island time. Who knows how many days or months could have passed jsut by them travelling to the boat?

.

The real question to me is, why are none of the 815 castaways not experiencing any side effects? Are we to assume that the plane entered by that exact bearing?

That's a good question. Desmond is certainly a special case, since he should have imploded along with the Swan Hatch, yet somehow miraculously turned up alive in the jungle in the Season 2 finale.

Daniel asked if Desmond had been exposed to any massive amounts of radiation or electromagnetism. This must be a key component to explaining the reason why Desmond shifted during the barrier crossing and Sayid and Frank didn't.

However, it doesn't really explain why Minkowski and his friend (who tooked the tenter out) both experienced the same phenomenon as Desmond. Were they exposed to a massive dose of radiation/electromagnetism when they neared the Island's barrier? And if so, how was their exposure different than Sayid's and Frank's when they exited through the barrier?

I don't think we have enough info to suss this one out yet.

Also, what is the explanation for the rocket? Did the rocket travel into the future by 31 minutes?

That's what I'm betting.

Lastly, what is the explanation for Sayid's dusk to daylight comment? Did the entire helicopter travel through time a little?

If you buy that the rocket travelled through time as it entered the Island, then why not the helicopter as it exited?

I started another thread on here (don't know how to do links) where I explain how I think the helicopter travelled forward in time 1.5 days as it passed through the barrier -- only Sayid, Desmond and Frank don't realize it.

I have to side with everyone that says island time and off-island time are the same and constant and that the only time difference occurs is when one travels from the island 'bubble' to the off-island bubble.

Someone put it this way, so I can't take credit for it. Draw two circles next to each other that touch at one point. If you go from one circle to the other at the exact point where they touch, then there is no difference. But, if you draw a straight line at any other point, there is a space in between. And it can be different lengths depending on where on the circle you go (different bearings). This could explain why the rocket had only a 31 minute difference and the helicopter had a much longer time difference.

In other words, passing through the Snowglobe sends you through time by an amount decided by bearing, but time on and off the Island remain synced.
100%

From the rocket's point of view, only 20 seconds passed. This is why it didn't run out of fuel before it reached the Island.

From the Island's (and Freighter) point of view, the rocket travelled forward in time 31 minutes.
No, that's exactly the point. Regina counted down and saw the rocket impact after 20 seconds, not after 31 minutes!

okay.

It's been presented as Dec 24, 2004 on the boat, in London and the outside world in general, and I will take this as fact.

Jack had mentioned the 100 days....and it seems that the Losties have been aware of the passing of 100 days on the island. So it's being prersented that it's Dec 24, 2004 on the island as well. In fact, Ben confirms all of this in TGB....on day 69, of them being there...

BEN: Your flight crashed on September 22nd, 2004. Today is November 29th. That means you've been on our island for 69 days. Yes, we do have contact with the outside world, Jack. That's how we know that during those 69 days your fellow Americans re-elected George W. Bush; Christopher Reeve has passed away; the Boston Red Sox won the World Series. [Jack starts laughing] What?

So it really does appear that Island time...and real world time are in synch.

But somethings off...something with that sentance above MUST not be true since since we know when a rocket is fired to the island, it seems to take longer to get there to the people on the island. When a helicopter takes a 20min flight off the island, it seems to the people left behind on the island that it takes a day.

We know that when the chopper left, and all the occupants of it only experianced a 20min ride...that it was mid-day on the island...yet dusk when the arrived.

We know it's approaching dusk in the pacific...but it's nighttime in London? That wouldn't make sense either. So is Sayid then, misunderstanding and it's actually dawn?

somethings not right. Time does move differently somewhere. So if times moving fin ON the island. And times moving fine OFF the island. I guess it's through the thunderhead that time moves differently.

And if thats the case....it surely would explain why whenever it rains on the island, strange things happen.

This episode established once and for all (as much as Lost ever establishes anything) that the rate of time on and off Island is constant. There is no slow time effect. One day on the Island equals one day in the Real World.

On this episode, it is December 24 on the Island and it is December 24 off the Island.

On the Island, time is constant. Off the Island, time is constant. The only time travel effect that can occur is as one passes THROUGH the barrier BETWEEN the Island and the Real World, and it depends on which bearing one takes either on the way in or on the way out.

The rocket's 31 missing minutes can be explained because the bearing by which it entered the Island caused it to move FORWARD in time, relative to the Island (and the Real World). The rocket did not take Daniel's bearing of 305. It took a different bearing. We don't know what that bearing is yet.

From the rocket's point of view, only 20 seconds passed. This is why it didn't run out of fuel before it reached the Island.

From the Island's (and Freighter) point of view, the rocket travelled forward in time 31 minutes. What's so confusing about it all is that the Losties DON'T KNOW about the barrier's ability to jump things back and forth through time. Daniel Farraday and Charlotte know, but from our Lostie's point of view, they don't know what the heck is going on, because they haven't been told about the special properties of the barrier.

I think Lordof theFiles has got the right idea on this one.

time on the freighter may not necessarily be the same as of the island. it was Christmas on the frieghter and in London, but, unless I missed something, I saw no indication of any Christmas action on the island. So, it may be the same time or not. We don't really know yet.

I'm confused by this assertion - it was Dec 24 on the FREIGHTER, but not necessarily on the island...?
100%
Come to think of it Sayid even made a comment about it being Christmas Eve and saying something like "I was wondering what the date was, I've lost track." So that at the LEAST indicates that the Losties don't EXPECT that it's Christmas Eve.

QED, baby!

We don't know that it was Dec. 24 in London.

We do know. Desmond was very specific as to when he would call.

The real question to me is, why are none of the 815 castaways not experiencing any side effects? Are we to assume that the plane entered by that exact bearing?

Also, what is the explanation for the rocket? Did the rocket travel into the future by 31 minutes?

Lastly, what is the explanation for Sayid's dusk to daylight comment? Did the entire helicopter travel through time a little? I suppose we are also to assume that you can only travel in time like Des did if you were exposed to radiation. So, I guess what happened to the swan was some type of radioactive reaction.


I can't resist the urge to combine this idea with what I was reading in another thread - maybe the 815 castaways are experiencing side effects, but to a much smaller degree than Desmond. They came through the barrier at the wrong angle, but they were never exposed to electromagnetism like he was, so their side effects would be minor... they could manifest as Kate's vision of the horse, Sayid's of the cat, etc., or they could explain the entire flashback structure of the show, where they're not actually time travelling like Desmond, but they're having extremely vivid memories in bits and pieces. I haven't thought this through enough, but I love the idea that the structure of the show is more than just a storytelling device.

The way I'm picturing the barrier, in an utterly unscientific way, is like two circles around the island. A smaller circle inside a larger circle that touch at one point. The area in between the two circles is where time is experienced differently. If you pass through the exact point where the two circles meet, you never leave "real time." If you pass through where the circles are farther apart, it's like a shortcut, but with time instead of distance. At the point the rocket passed through, it took a few seconds to pass through the shortcut, but took a half hour in real time. The helicopter took 20 minutes through its point through the shortcut, but to everyone else in real time, it was 20 hours.

I can't resist the urge to combine this idea with what I was reading in another thread - maybe the 815 castaways are experiencing side effects, but to a much smaller degree than Desmond. They came through the barrier at the wrong angle, but they were never exposed to electromagnetism like he was, so their side effects would be minor... they could manifest as Kate's vision of the horse, Sayid's of the cat, etc., or they could explain the entire flashback structure of the show, where they're not actually time travelling like Desmond, but they're having extremely vivid memories in bits and pieces. I haven't thought this through enough, but I love the idea that the structure of the show is more than just a storytelling device.

Except the cat was Mikhail's, I'm not sure if anyone else saw the horse, but I think someone did. The "side effects" are not the flashbacks. If everyone was randomly being thrust into extremely vivid memories, (i.e. getting hurt, actually feeling things, what have you) I have to believe someone would have mentioned it. I know I would tell someone if I was thrust back to a point where I was beat up as a kid and it felt as if I was really there. That coupled with the fact that Ben and Juliet have had flashbacks and I'm sure Ben was meticulous in following the correct bearing.

Not trying to be rude here, but I find it frustrating how many people use circumstantial evidence to make assumptions and claim them as facts. As I see it, the facts are:

1. Calendar on the Freighter says Dec. 24th.
2. Penny is standing next to a Christmas tree in London.
3. Desmond said he would call on Dec. 24th, 2004.
4. Plane crashes (in real world time) on September 22, 2004.
5. Ben/Losties have COMMUNICATION with outside world.

Nothing in these statements PROVES that time is the same both on the island and off. Until proven otherwise, I think there is a difference between island time and outside world time.

Damon Lindelof (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Damon_Lindelof): It’s interesting that you should ask about time because… you know… you’re making a basic assumption that they’ve been there, y’know, as long as they think they’ve been there. [Crowd murmurs, someone says “Oh, no.”] I would say by the end of Season 3…

Bear with me... I read (albeit 13 years ago) Stephen Hawkings "A Brief History in Time". This book did appear in the episode "Not In Portland", so it should have some relevance. Although I can't quote the pages exactly, I do remember him talking about (these are his theories BTW, they are not proven even in real science) time can operate differently than how we are accustomed to perceiving it... when you are talking about events occurring near large gravitational/electromagnetic forces and/or as objects approach the speed of light.

Without getting too heady... one of the examples he used was of an astronaut leaving earth, but traveling at the speed of light. If the astronaut were gone for 10 years of earth time (let's pretend Penny/Freighter time), to the astronaut, the journey would seem almost instantaneous (island time). Upon returning, people on earth would have aged 10 years, but the astronaut would not have aged. In a sense... he was time traveling, but not in the typical sense we think of as someone disappearing and reappearing somewhere else. This sort of time travel occurs because we perceive time one way, but time can change. This sounds very confusing, but if you want more details, read the book.

So, how does this all apply to the FACTS:... The Losties have counted 95 days since the crash, but this is their perception. We DO NOT KNOW for FACT that what they perceive as 95 normal days passing equals 95 days of off island time. Anyone who is saying they do is basing that statement on conjecture. Let's hope those people never are on a jury when you are on death row... just kidding.

Here are my opinions... they are not facts, but they are one way of explaining things that people claim cannot happen. I'm sure they are not correct, but at least it is food for thought..

Q. If time moves differently on island and off, how do Losties/Ben COMMUNICATE with outside world?

A. They are COMMUNICATING with radio waves, which move at the speed of light. If you assume Hawkings descriptions of the above astronaut story to be true, then two people experiencing time differently physically could actually be communicating in real time. This could also explain how Farraday is able to communicate with the boat in real time, but the physical rocket is off target by 31 min. Time in the two places is occurring/perceived differently, but people are still able to communicate with each other.

The BEARING to come and leave the island is an interesting thought, and I like the idea of the two circles just touching to explain it... but these are also not FACTS, they are just ideas. Hopefully we'll see more on this in future episodes.

I have more to say on this topic, but I need to go... mull these thoughts over and I'll try to finish up another time. I've seen lots of good ideas and posts out there, so keep up the good work... just try to avoid making absolute statements about things when there are possibilities out there. All I know is, there is not enough evidence to prove island time and outside time are the same... so until then, I think this thread is not closed but still open for debate!

I disagree. Time MUST move slower on the island. Remember, Desmond called from the BOAT. The boat is outside the island...they had to fly through an electro-magnetic storm to reach it. So the time on the boat will be the same as anything in the outside world that is in its time zone. In the case of London...different time zones - yeah. Different days? No. Here me out on this one:

I've been thinking about this a lot and I think I have a valid point to contribute. Daniel's comment that they aren't traveling through time saves the idea that LOST is not a sci-fi show. Having somebody lapse through different times in life is entirely possible. Shock trauma can change how the brain functions. Look at post-war soldiers. A lot of them lapse into the past and feel they are still at war. This is possible and does happen. One thing I am going to stray away from is the notion of "the package" being 31 minutes different in time. Thinking outside the box I'm leaning more and more towards the obscure. What if the 31 "minutes" isn't actually minutes at all? If the difference is measured in hours instead of minutes some things could be clarified..

One: The chopper doesn't "take" a day and a half. Instead, and more specifically, the time differential is 31 hours.

Two: If the island moves at a pace 31 hours slower than the real world, it could explain why babies don't live past the second or third trimester. They are underdeveloped.

Three: Richard hasn't aged much at all. Ben has. Ben has multiple passports and knows how to leave the island. Assuming he has and does, this could explain why Ben ages and Richard doesn't.

Four: I assume that the Oceanic 6 are getting close to being let off the island (3 seasons of LOST = around 90 days on the island). 3 More seasons I could assume they were on the island for 180 days...half of a year. So how is it that Aaron is around 3 years old off the island when, in all reality, he would be six months old by the time he leaves the island? Either the flash forwards are years and years after the crash or this time differential could explain why people believe that Kate could have Aaron even though she wasn't pregnant on the plane and he is 3 years old now.

Just a thought.

okay.

It's been presented as Dec 24, 2004 on the boat, in London and the outside world in general, and I will take this as fact.

...

somethings not right. Time does move differently somewhere. So if times moving fin ON the island. And times moving fine OFF the island. I guess it's through the thunderhead that time moves differently.


I agree, _something_ is not right.

My first thought is that the 'days' while experientially being the same length are not objectively the same. For example, at a certain historical moment (I would have to look it up to be precise) it was common to divide the day and night into twelve hours each. However, the amount of daylight changes throughout the year - thus what constitutes an 'hour' would be a little bit different every day or even throughout the day, and in hindsight would not match up to our current 24-hour system.

So it could be possible that time on and off island are out of phase or there is some sort of weird time-mapping function. It is possible for two signals to appear the same if they match up in the right way and are sampled at the right low resolution. For example a 1Hz sine wave and a 1 Hz square wave would look identical if the samples were taken in sync with their high or low points.

I'm not sure if that completely makes sense, but I don't think that it makes sense to say that it's December 24th everywhere either.

If everyone was randomly being thrust into extremely vivid memories, (i.e. getting hurt, actually feeling things, what have you) I have to believe someone would have mentioned it.

I wasn't thinking of them having them at that level, where they're actually feeling physical pain in their memories, and stuff... I've always been interested in how the structure of the show relates to their experience; in the past, I have thought it as a sort of island-induced life-flashing-before-your-eyes experience.

I think this could be even cooler if it were connected to the time-travel aspect, but you've totally got me on the Ben and Juliet point!

Okay, maybe I'm not the brightest, and I'm not claiming to know much of anything about time travel or anything else, but what about the time difference that naturally occurs from the time zones? I mean, what's the time difference from the South Pacific to England in the first place? Would the South Pacific be a day ahead of them already? Anyone who can shed some light, maybe that could help!

30 minute helicopter ride experienced by Frank, Desmond and Sayid
EQUALS
1.5 days (2160 minutes) experienced on the island (Jack, Juliette, Dan, Charlotte)

I like to think of it like the CS Lewis books - you escape to Narnia for what feels like a long time, only to return to the "real world" a little while after you left.

This time dilation could be exponential.

This time dilation started, not when the hatch imploded (day 65 or sometime around there), but rather when Charlie turned off the Looking Glass (day 93).

Now, what is day 94 off island, is day 96 on the island. Time is passing faster on the island.

Addition: The rocket experiment seems to imply SLOW time. Contradictions abound.

Okay, maybe I'm not the brightest, and I'm not claiming to know much of anything about time travel or anything else, but what about the time difference that naturally occurs from the time zones? I mean, what's the time difference from the South Pacific to England in the first place? Would the South Pacific be a day ahead of them already? Anyone who can shed some light, maybe that could help!

Great thought! Didn't think of that. I think the time difference is about 10 hours? Someone please confirm.

I just checked on this site : http://www.worldtimeserver.com/index.aspx, and according to it there is a 12 hour difference between Fiji (it's been referenced several times in realtion to The Island so I used it) and London.

I broke up Founders original post #60 to try and dissect each question:

okay.

It's been presented as Dec 24, 2004 on the boat, in London and the outside world in general, and I will take this as fact.

I agree

Jack had mentioned the 100 days....and it seems that the Losties have been aware of the passing of 100 days on the island. So it's being prersented that it's Dec 24, 2004 on the island as well. I'm with you 100% so far!!

In fact, Ben confirms all of this in TGB....on day 69, of them being there...

BEN: Your flight crashed on September 22nd, 2004. Today is November 29th. That means you've been on our island for 69 days. Yes, we do have contact with the outside world, Jack. That's how we know that during those 69 days your fellow Americans re-elected George W. Bush; Christopher Reeve has passed away; the Boston Red Sox won the World Series. [Jack starts laughing] What?So it really does appear that Island time...and real world time are in synch.Whoops, you just lost me there... I don't see it CONFIRMING anything. Notice the wording you are using because it answers your own question. It "seems" like the Losties have been aware of the passing of 100 days, so it's being "presented" that it's December 24, 2004 both on and off the Island, and it "appears" Island time and Real World time are in synch...

The only thing CONFIRMED by Ben's statement is that he is in contact with the outside world and is aware of events in real time. He is telling Jack today is November 29th... but this could be a way to deceive Jack (or the audience) about the unique properties of the island. We have no proof of how time operates on the island other than Ben's statement. In another post the following comment applies:


The number of days they've been on the island is relatively meaningless, until we know more about how time works on and off the Island.


But somethings off...something with that sentance above MUST not be true since since we know when a rocket is fired to the island, it seems to take longer to get there to the people on the island. When a helicopter takes a 20min flight off the island, it seems to the people left behind on the island that it takes a day.

Again, I agree... we don't know how this all works out yet, but anyone assuming there is no time difference is basing this fact on time passing on the island being equal to time passing off the island. I have yet to see proof of this, and if anything, the writers are giving us clues to support time differences.

Great analysis though Founder... you are open to the possibilities!

Okay, wow. This whole thing is making my head hurt. :D

So here's my question:

If it is December 24, 2004 on the island (as we know by how many days have passed since the crash), and it's December 24, 2004 on the freighter (as we know from the calendar), and it's December 24, 2004 in the "real world" (as we know from Desmond telling Penny he'd call her in eight years, not to mention her Christmas tree), then where does the payload time difference come in?

Also, Sayid said they left the island at dusk, and they arrived at the freighter in the middle of the day. How does that work?!

And why is Aaron so much older in the Eggtown FFs? :confused:

This whole thing just makes my head hurt. I liked it better when I would just watch episodes looking for easter eggs and numbers.... not trying to figure out pseudo science and astro physics :confused:

To be honest, I'm not sure what I think yet. I am leaning towards the bizzaro time bubble/barrier/snowglobe theory at the moment with time on the island and in the rest of the world being the same but having a space between the two where things get messed up. However, I also agree with other posters who say that just because a calendar on the freighter shows a date... doesn't necessarily mean it IS that date.... Also, I've yet to rewatch the epi (hubby deleted it... argh) but at the end did Penny say it was 2004 or could it have been Christmas eve another year? Hence, the looking for you for 3 years? Maybe when he didn't call in 2004 she really got serious about trying to find him and now it is 2007?? But I guess a 3 year exact time difference would be silly.

My oh my.... my head is just spinning.... I mean between time shifting/traveling/perception, polar bears in Tunisia, Jakob's weird appearing/disappearing cabin, purple sky, smoke monsters, Patchy and his 4265436 lives, the Black Rock, and 4 toed huge statue feet, how am I supposed to sleep at night?

Hmmmm...:ohwell: I need me some Dharma wine-in-a-box....

However, I also agree with other posters who say that just because a calendar on the freighter shows a date... doesn't necessarily mean it IS that date.... Also, I've yet to rewatch the epi (hubby deleted it... argh) but at the end did Penny say it was 2004 or could it have been Christmas eve another year? Hence, the looking for you for 3 years? Maybe when he didn't call in 2004 she really got serious about trying to find him and now it is 2007?? But I guess a 3 year exact time difference would be silly.

I'm convinced that it was Christmas Eve 2004. She had been looking for him for three years, and he had been on the island for three years. The plane took off on Sept. 22 from Australia and crashed on Sept. 22 on the island (per the printout in The Pearl). The dates in both places remain the same, I'm just not so sure that a day on the island is the same as a day for the rest of the world.

What's the point?

If Island Time and Real Time are the same what's the use of the Barrier causing a shift in that time? If all that happens when you either come or go from the Island is that time shifts a bit but ultimately stays the same...what's the point?

I'm saying the same thing in three different threads right now... there is no time difference on/off-island. None.

Thank you all for a great thread! I have been saying the same thing on another thread before I found this one. To me it's pretty clear, same time on and off island, with the differences occurring when traveling through the "bubble" like an event horizon of a black hole. Really interesting concept when you think about it, what could that bubble be made of to change time? The only thing that physics says can change time is extreme speed or gravity (from my understanding of quantum physics). TPTB will have to give a good explanation for this one!

Jack was upset that he hadn't heard from Sayid & Desmond for 24 hrs after they left, but Daniel confirmed that it was a 20 minute flight to the freighter. He also said that people on the island experience time differently than those off the island.
So, 24 hrs on island = 20 minutes off island.
They have been on the island 93 days.

Jack was upset that he hadn't heard from Sayid & Desmond for 24 hrs after they left, but Daniel confirmed that it was a 20 minute flight to the freighter. He also said that people on the island experience time differently than those off the island.
So, 24 hrs on island = 20 minutes off island.
They have been on the island 93 days.


Not so sure that is accurate. 93 days x 20 minutes would mean roughly 180 minutes of off the island time.....doesn't work. 815 took off on 9/22/04, and Ben mentions that the Sox have won the series, for one thing, and that was clearly 30 days of off island time, your calc would mean that it would still be 9/22/04 off the island......is that what you were hinting at?

Jack was upset that he hadn't heard from Sayid & Desmond for 24 hrs after they left, but Daniel confirmed that it was a 20 minute flight to the freighter. He also said that people on the island experience time differently than those off the island.
So, 24 hrs on island = 20 minutes off island.
They have been on the island 93 days.

I was previously thinking this too, but I don't think it's a simple ratio like this anymore. Here's why: Losties have been on the island 93 days, which, counting from Sept 23 2004 (when 815 crashed) puts us at Dec 24th on the island. And lo and behold, it's Dec 24th on the freighter as well.

Whatever is going on with the time shift, it is local and related to "crossing the barrier." I'm not sure how to reconcile this with the helicopter flight, but those are the facts, ma'am. :biggrin:

Lostpedia clearly shows the time difference:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline:December_2004

Scroll down to the bottom. You'll see that "on island" and "off island" are two different days, occurring at the same time. Basically, the freighter is 2 days behind the island.

Yeah, I'm confused too. But lostpedia is *incredibly accurate* with their LOST time line. Christmas Day on the island was the day Locke was cooking eggs for Ben. The helicopter arrives on the freighter the day after Christmas on the island, but on the freighter its still Christmas eve.

Who writes the pop-ups for the replay of the previous week's episode and should we trust them? When Eggtown was replayed this week, it was the day John served Ben eggs and the day Sayid and Desmond left on the chopper. The pop-up said "This is the survivor's 93rd day on the Island". That makes it December 24th right? But who put that in there?!!

Theres no way. How would they be able to communicate in real time via the satelite phones? There would be a huge delay if time was different on and off the island. Wouldnt there?

Lostpedia is wrong. There was always some question mark over the days covered in The Brig last season (probably a continuity error made with the "x days ago" subtitles). The enhanced episodes of Through The Looking Glass and The Economist both suggest it's day 94 on the island right now. In which case time is in sync.

A lot of people are refusing to let go of this slow island time theory. There's really no solid evidence to support it.

As far as I'm concerned the helicopter leaves the island at dusk on day 92. It arrives on the freighter around noon on day 94. Over a day had passed on both the island and the freighter but from the POV of Sayid and Desmond the trip took only 20 minutes. So something must have happened when they entered the thunderhead. Where were they for that day and half? I don't know, they lost time.

To the above: exactly. This slow-time idea has been debated and debated and debated for the last 24 hours... but I just don't think it's accurate. Something "happened" to the chopper and the rocket that literally made them lose time, and then pop out in (or catch up to) "real time" some time later. The rocket lost 30 minutes. Sayid lost a day. Call it a wormhole. But island time? No, island time is business as usual and totally in sync with the rest of the world. As far as I can tell right now, it's as simple as that.

How would they be able to communicate in real time via the satelite phones? There would be a huge delay if time was different on and off the island. Wouldnt there?

Well, the freighties did say that those phones only communicate with each other so maybe the phones have been time adjusted for people to communicate in real time???

Thank you all for a great thread! I have been saying the same thing on another thread before I found this one. To me it's pretty clear, same time on and off island, with the differences occurring when traveling through the "bubble" like an event horizon of a black hole. Really interesting concept when you think about it, what could that bubble be made of to change time? The only thing that physics says can change time is extreme speed or gravity (from my understanding of quantum physics). TPTB will have to give a good explanation for this one!
There are too many of the same debates going on. I think what's frustrating is that so many people show up and post the same questions that both "sides" have been giving their answers to for a day. I think island time and off-island time are completely in sync. Lostpedia has kept a great timeline for us to follow, and unless their is something weird concerning what a day is on the island, it is Christmas Eve there.

Then add on to that Ben's comments last season. (You've been here for 69 days.)

The fact that Desmond's computer print-out matched the date the plane crashed.

The fact that Jack's comments didn't raise an eyebrow on Frank's head. (I haven't seen a baseball game in 100 days.)

The fact that Frank still seemed a little upset over the Red Sox coming back and beating the Yankees.

The fact that Claire still gave birth as expected, and not two days after the crash (fast-time) or in season five (slow-time).

The fact that Penny has been looking for Desmond for three years.

It's just too many questions to answer. Is slow/fast time still possible? Sure, but we better get good answers to these questions... and I don't think it's possible, I think we're being set up for an "in sync time" plot. Time is in sync, but you get lost in the barrier. If you hit the barrier right (remember Daniel stressing the point to Frank, remember Ben stressing the point to Michael) you don't lose time (or you'll lose minimal time). If you hit it wrong you can lose lots 'o time. The rocket lost 30 minutes. Sayid and Desmond lost a day. What happens though, is eventually they "caught up" to real time. They lost time (Mittelos, anyone?) traveling... but eventually catch back up to whatever time it really is on and off the island, while time passes as usual for everyone else. Jack says "where the hell are they?!?!", but Daniel's not worried because he understands why Jack's perception is off. Daniel knew they must have missed the coordinates, lost time, but will eventually catch up and make that phone call.

Well, the freighties did say that those phones only communicate with each other so maybe the phones have been time adjusted for people to communicate in real time???
He said that because those phones really only can communicate with each other. Plus, Frank said it and I think the writers are making it clear that he really does not understand what's going on. Meaning, if there is a time difference, Frank doesn't know anything about it and/or the top-secret, souped-up phones that work through time barriers. Really, he said it because the writers thought it was a funny, little Iraq joke that broke the ice a little during an otherwise tense scene... that was my take.

The assumption here is that it took 1.5 to 2 days to get from the island to the freighter. Daniel specifically tells Jack that his perception of time on the island isn't quite right. I think Lostpedia is just adding that time in just because Jack said so.

Jack was upset that he hadn't heard from Sayid & Desmond for 24 hrs after they left, but Daniel confirmed that it was a 20 minute flight to the freighter. He also said that people on the island experience time differently than those off the island.
So, 24 hrs on island = 20 minutes off island.
They have been on the island 93 days.


How do we know the length of time that passed on the freighter?
Was there any comments from the freighter people confirming the time the helicopter took off from the island and when it landed on the freighter?

I don't think we do or if they(the freighter people) even knew the exact time the helicopter took off. They could have waited the exact amount of time as the people on the island.

It appears that the helicopter itself was lost for hours inside the "thunder head" before re-emerging. But to the people inside the aircraft only minutes have passed. Which is a similar experience reported by pilots who enter the Bermuda Triangle.


Also in the Eggtown epi, Charlotte calls the freighter and talks to Regina. She tells them that Jack and people are worried about their friends because the Helicopter took off "the night before". (Note this phone conversation is at night and Jack actually speaks to Sayid in the daylight hours so it's more like 30+ hours that the Helicopter is missing) Regina responds that she thought the Helicopter was with them on the island. So this is a good clue that the Helicopter did not arrive in 20 minutes either island time or off-island time.

Okay, again I ask what's the point?

What's the use to the plot or the story if Island Time and Real Time match? If that is true, what is so important about the Travel to and from the Island? In other words, why would the difference in the "perception of time" be important?

I am confused just like everyone, so I only put forth these questions to try and understand what is going on...not that I don't enoy what is going on.

How do we know the length of time that passed on the freighter?
Was there any comments from the freighter people confirming the time the helicopter took off from the island and when it landed on the freighter?

I don't think we do or if they(the freighter people) even knew the exact time the helicopter took off. They could have waited the exact amount of time as the people on the island.

It appears that the helicopter itself was lost for hours inside the "thunder head" before re-emerging. But to the people inside the aircraft only minutes have passed. Which is a similar experience reported by pilots who enter the Bermuda Triangle.


Also in the Eggtown epi, Charlotte calls the freighter and talks to Regina. She tells them that Jack and people are worried about their friends because the Helicopter took off "the night before". (Note this phone conversation is at night and Jack actually speaks to Sayid in the daylight hours so it's more like 30+ hours that the Helicopter is missing) Regina responds that she thought the Helicopter was with them on the island. So this is a good clue that the Helicopter did not arrive in 20 minutes either island time or off-island time.
I think the "official" stance is that the helicopter was in limbo from one half of a day to one day. Not 30+ hours. I may be wrong. Furthermore, the helicopter couldn't have been in the air for more than 30 minutes because of the low fuel. Most of us stick with 20 minutes because of Juliet's comments. I'm tellin' ya, the chopper flew into a "wormhole" and popped out the next afternoon - it was 20 minutes chopper time while time passed per usual on the island. I've been saying this for over a day now, I should ask why you don't "like" it.

Okay, again I ask what's the point?

What's the use to the plot or the story if Island Time and Real Time match? If that is true, what is so important about the Travel to and from the Island? In other words, why would the difference in the "perception of time" be important?

I am confused just like everyone, so I only put forth these questions to try and understand what is going on...not that I don't enoy what is going on.
Because you lose time in travel. How much? Depends on where you hit "it." That would make Michael and Walt's story interesting. Where did Ben send them? The past, present, or future?

I mean, at this point you could ask that question about any potential story plot. What's the point of a time differential?

I think the "official" stance is that the helicopter was in limbo from one half of a day to one day. Not 30+ hours. I may be wrong. Furthermore, the helicopter couldn't have been in the air for more than 30 minutes because of the low fuel. Most of us stick with 20 minutes because of Juliet's comments. I'm tellin' ya, the chopper flew into a "wormhole" and popped out the next afternoon - it was 20 minutes chopper time while time passed per usual on the island. I've been saying this for over a day now, I should ask why you don't "like" it.Similar to my viewpoint that during transit through whatever field surrounds the island time slows for whoever/whatever is in transit but continues at the "normal" rate for both the island and the outside. The problem being the rocket and the timer attached to it, where the rocket did not run out of fuel and had a delayed arrival because it was in slow time during flight but the attached timer continued working in faster than rocket time.:confused:

Similar to my viewpoint that during transit through whatever field surrounds the island time slows for whoever/whatever is in transit but continues at the "normal" rate for both the island and the outside. The problem being the rocket and the timer attached to it, where the rocket did not run out of fuel and had a delayed arrival because it was in slow time during flight but the attached timer continued working in faster than rocket time.:confused:
Sure. But I don't even know if I think the objects "slow down" within that barrier. I just think they... warp. They hit something and literally pop out in a different time, unbeknownst to the passengers.

I think the helicopter jumped ahead 36 hours or so. The trip only took 20 minutes but they lost those 36 hours and ended up in the future. From Jack (and the freighter's perspective if they had known the helicopter left the island), it took 36 hours until the helicopter arrived in the future. I think crossing the barrier causes some sort of time traveling or warping.

I think the helicopter jumped ahead 36 hours or so. The trip only took 20 minutes but they lost those 36 hours and ended up in the future. From Jack (and the freighter's perspective if they had known the helicopter left the island), it took 36 hours until the helicopter arrived in the future. I think crossing the barrier causes some sort of time traveling or warping.
Yep. Pretty much exactly what I've been led to believe. Let's just say the helicopter warped... the flight-time was completely normal, but they hit a whole that pushed them into the future while time passed as usual on the island and boat. Though I'm unsure what time the chopper left, and when Sayid made that call. Was it 12 hours, 24 hours, 36 hours?

The rocket? That almost seems like the exact same but completely opposite.

Didn't Daniel conduct an experiment where he had two or three timers. One on the island, one on his watch, and one from the missle that was launched from the ship. When the missile arrived, it showed two different times.

Here's the link for the first time, which i believe is the one for the island.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=107980&fullsize=1

Here is the link for the second time, which was in the missile
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=107979&fullsize=1

Here's another image of Dan checking his watch
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=107976&fullsize=1

I believe that this shows that the island has a much quicker time frame than the outside world.

Similar to my viewpoint that during transit through whatever field surrounds the island time slows for whoever/whatever is in transit but continues at the "normal" rate for both the island and the outside. The problem being the rocket and the timer attached to it, where the rocket did not run out of fuel and had a delayed arrival because it was in slow time during flight but the attached timer continued working in faster than rocket time.:confused:

Remember Regina sent the rocket and told faraday that the rocket hit it's mark in a minute because she was looking at a radar. The radar was detecting something from within the rocket. The rocket (and the helicopter) think they are passing through in normal stride. When in reality and to the perspective of those on AND off the island it is in pause mode for a certain amount of time. That amount of time is determined by what bearing is taken. There is no difference in time on or off the island.

You should not trust Lostpedia until something is established a long time from now. Remember, Lostpedia is based on fan submissions. While for most things like documenting an episode and who's alive or dead, it's right on the money. But we are only 2 episodes in to discovering what is happening with time and the barrier that surrounds the island. If a fan of the slow time theory gets on their and sets the timeline, it is going to be proven wrong if it shown to be different from what he or she believes. I think that I'm right based on what they have shown us because I am not holding on to old theories for arguements sake.

It's kinda like trusting a Christian to write your science book. Until things can be proven, he's going to say that everything that happens is because God did it.

I hope this helps.

Remember Regina sent the rocket and told faraday that the rocket hit it's mark in a minute because she was looking at a radar. The radar was detecting something from within the rocket. The rocket (and the helicopter) think they are passing through in normal stride. When in reality and to the perspective of those on AND off the island it is in pause mode for a certain amount of time. That amount of time is determined by what bearing is taken. There is no difference in time on or off the island.

You should not trust Lostpedia until something is established a long time from now. Remember, Lostpedia is based on fan sunmissions. While for most things like documenting an episode and who's alive or dead, it's right on the money. But we are only 2 episodes in to discover what is happening with time and the barrier that surrounds the island. If a fan of the slow time theory gets on their and sets the timeline, it is going to be proven wrong if it shown to be different from what he or she believes. I think that I'm right based on what they have shown us because I am not holding on to old theories for arguements sake.

It's kinda like trusting a Christian to write your science book. Until things can be proven, he's going to say that everything that happens is because God did it.

I hope this helps.
Totally. And in response to your last paragraph... I've been wanting to make the creationist comparison for a day now!

Well we do know that per island time:

The Helicopter left at night Per Charlotte.

Charlotte called the freighter the next night and the freighters learn the Helicopter is missing.

Jack answers the phone and speaks to Sayid in broad daylight.

That has to be more than 24 hours in island time and my guess is it's the exact same time on the freighter.

The only thing we know about Freighter time is the helicopter landed in broad daylight and ironically the sun was shining on the island too.

Where can we compare time to prove it is any different on the island as opposed to the freighter?

I think the only place where time is any different is the area that Frank, Sayid, and Desmond flew into and has no relevance to off island or on island time. All we do know is that that Sayid and Desmond went missing for over a day in island time.

And I don't think there is any way to confirm if gas is still consumed while experiencing time suspension. Is there?

And I don't think there is any way to confirm if gas is still consumed while experiencing time suspension. Is there?

I think we can safely say that gas is not consumed in this state because they would have run out of it as soon as they passed through. Remember Frank was worried he didn't have enough for a 20 minute trip let alone a 36 hour-ish trip.

I would also speculate that if either Frank, Des or Sayid was wearing a watch it would out of sync with those of watches on the freighter. It would be "behind" like the rocket clock was.

I think we can safely say that gas is not consumed in this state because they would have run out of it as soon as they passed through. Remember Frank was worried he didn't have enough for a 20 minute trip let alone a 36 hour-ish trip.

I would also speculate that if either Frank, Des or Sayid was wearing a watch it would out of sync with those of watches on the freighter. It would be "behind" like the rocket clock was.
Excatly what I was about to say. The watch. They jumped in time, but any watch would have said the trip took twenty minutes. What's so tough to understand about wormholes? Remember when Mario warped? He popped out of the green chutes in "real time" - he just skipped a certain amount of time, depending on what chute he jumped in.

No. Time. Differences.

Haven't rewatched it yet so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jack try to call them numerous times? There's no real reason why the phones shouldn't work even if they were going through the thunderhead. Transmissions went through with no problem, as did the helicopter with all of its electronics. Jack should have been able to get in contact with them whenever he wanted. But then of course, that wouldn't work for the time difference element in the story that they are attempting.

Haven't rewatched it yet so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jack try to call them numerous times? There's no real reason why the phones shouldn't work even if they were going through the thunderhead. Transmissions went through with no problem, as did the helicopter with all of its electronics. Jack should have been able to get in contact with them whenever he wanted. But then of course, that wouldn't work for the time difference element in the story that they are attempting.
If you want an answer based on my theory... Sayid, Desmond and Frank literally didn't exist during that day or so. They hit some kind of hole and were "instantly" pushed into the future, but time passed normally for everyone else on the boat/island. I firmly believe that if Frank had radio'd Regina when they left the island they would have been equally concerned.

If you want an answer based on my theory... Sayid, Desmond and Frank literally didn't exist during that day or so. They hit some kind of hole and were "instantly" pushed into the future, but time passed normally for everyone else on the boat/island. I firmly believe that if Frank had radio'd Regina when they left the island they would have been equally concerned.

Ok, I can kind of buy that theory, but I'd like to know why it's possible for transmissions to go through without any lag time. I guess it could be different for actual matter.

Ok, I can kind of buy that theory, but I'd like to know why it's possible for transmissions to go through without any lag time. I guess it could be different for actual matter.
Yeah. It really seems like they can talk on the phones in real time, and Charlie and Pennie talked in The Looking Glass in real time... but I keep going back to the conversation between Hurley and Sayid in season one; the conversation where Hurley "jokingly" mentioned "...or when."

If you want an answer based on my theory... Sayid, Desmond and Frank literally didn't exist during that day or so. They hit some kind of hole and were "instantly" pushed into the future, but time passed normally for everyone else on the boat/island. I firmly believe that if Frank had radio'd Regina when they left the island they would have been equally concerned.



Whatever it was they went into they were gone for 30 plus hours in island and
(presumably freighter) time.

I still don't get how people are so convinced there is a time difference between on and off the island. :confused: The Rocket nor the Helicopter can prove this.

Whatever it was they went into they were gone for 30 plus hours in island and
(presumably freighter) time.

I still don't get how people are so convinced there is a time difference between on and off the island. :confused: The Rocket nor the Helicopter can prove this.
Why thank you. I agree. The rocket and chopper don't help their case. In fact, and it's possible I'm wrong here, I think the rocket "proves" a slow island (the rocket was 30 minutes fast) and the chopper "proves" a fast island (a day passed during a 20-minute helicopter ride). No. I'm quite happy with my time-warp theories, for now.
100%
Why thank you. I agree. The rocket and chopper don't help their case. In fact, and it's possible I'm wrong here, I think the rocket "proves" a slow island (the rocket was 30 minutes fast) and the chopper "proves" a fast island (a day passed during a 20-minute helicopter ride). No. I'm quite happy with my time-warp theories, for now.
I'm bumping this because I think it's important. Am I off, or is this correct???

Didn't anyone mention the possible correlation with Little Benjamin Linus meeting Richard Alpert? or older Walt meeting Locke?

I am very pleased that they have established that time on the island is realtively the same as it is on the rest of the world. The reason why this has to be is the biggest "constant" of all, the sun. For eons humans have measured a day by the sun going up, and going down. The same sun that shines on the island is the same one that shines on London. The crash survivors have measured their time on the island as the sun coming up 96 times, if we would have discovered that more/less time have occured in London I don't see how that could have been explained(even for a TV show).

Sure there is a barrier leaving/entering the island that clearly has a temporal effect but that is like walking through a doorway.

I am very pleased that they have established that time on the island is the same as it is on the rest of the world. The reason why this has to be is the biggest "constant" of all, the sun. For eons humans have measured a day by the sun going up, and going down. The same sun that shines on the island is the same one that shines on London. The crash survivors have measured their time on the island as the sun coming up 96 times, if we would have discovered that more/less time have occured in London I don't see how that could have been explained(even for a TV show).

Sure there is a barrier leaving/entering the island that clearly has a temporal effect but that is like walking through a doorway.

Yes, I wondered about the sun. So the helicopter ride started at dusk and the landed at midday. For everyone else it took a day and a half (roughly.) For the people in the helicopter it seemed much shorter (an hour or so?). So did the sun set and rise and set for them really fast? Since they were in the storm maybe they couldn't see that? There can't be a different sun for the people in the helicopter.

Not trying to be rude here, but I find it frustrating how many people use circumstantial evidence to make assumptions and claim them as facts. As I see it, the facts are:

1. Calendar on the Freighter says Dec. 24th.
2. Penny is standing next to a Christmas tree in London.
3. Desmond said he would call on Dec. 24th, 2004.
4. Plane crashes (in real world time) on September 22, 2004.
5. Ben/Losties have COMMUNICATION with outside world.

Nothing in these statements PROVES that time is the same both on the island and off. Until proven otherwise, I think there is a difference between island time and outside world time.

Yes, but the preponderence of FACTS does indicate that the dates are going to be very close, certainly not far enough off to explain a rocket and a helicoptor. You have to use a lot of circumstantial evidence to make time move slower on the Island; but not as much to infer time that is in sync. There's more hard evidence for in-sync time on LOST than there is for evolution, yet people somehow take evolution for a fact.

One thing is for sure, it is definately 2004 OFF ISLAND, there are now too many references to ignore.

Further, Jack ON THE ISLAND and Sayid/freighter OFF THE ISLAND both perceived that a day or more had passed. THAT is fact.

I'm going to take a stab at explaining the time of day difference from when the helicopter took off and landed. Saiyd said they took off at dusk and landed midday, but it only felt like a 20 minute flight to them. However, from the point of view of the island, they were gone over a day (or was it 2 days?). I think they took off around dusk, and as they got close to the bubble or field surrounding the island, time slowed down from their perspective on the helicopter, but passed normally on the boat and freighter. It took them until the next afternoon "real time" to get through the bubble, but it only felt like 20 minutes "bubble time." If Saiyd had been paying attention to the dates of when he left the island and arrived on the freighter, I think he would have seen that over a day had passed. So they sory oc caught up to real time.

The "enhanced" version of "eggtown" verified that it was Day 93 on the Island, which is December 23rd. After a day of waiting to hear from the chopper, that makes it December 24th on the island, at the same time it is December 24th in England.

This is to be expected, as "slow-time on the island" as NEVER made any sense, for a multitude of reasons; from date-time correlations on/off the island in many other situations, to the fact that real-time voice transmissions are heard at normal speed.

Things crossing the island barrier, or boundary layer, (which is apparently marked by a thunderhead), skip forward in time, regardless of te direction of travel. The rocket skipped forward in time 31 minutes, and the helicopter skipped forward about a day.

I think the amount of time it skips forward is likely to be dependent on speed. The rocket was traveling at mach 7 (80 km / 27 seconds), and the top speed for a Huey is 127 MPH. If the amount of time skiped is linearly dependent on speed, the helicopter would have skipped forward by (127 MPH / mach 7) * 31 minutes = 22.7 hours, or about a day.

What do I mean? I am agreeing with the majority of people that say 1 Day on the Island is the same as 1 Day off the Island. 95 Days have passed since 815 crashed and it appears from the ship calander that the real world is synced up.

And yes I also agree that not flying right through the barrier will pop you out at different times.

With all that said, while the 815 survivers have experienced 95 days on the island just like the real world has, it does not mean that the island is in the same time as the real world. In fact I think it is thousands, if not tens of thousands of years back in the past. Here is why I think that.

1) Charlotte was in the middle of the desert looking at the remains of one of the polar bears that appeared to be from the Hydra Station. They found it's Darma collar. My guess is that in the "way" distant future the island has joined with other land masses and is now the desert that Charlotte was so interested in.

2) Everyone assumes that Daniel's clock arrived to him 31 minutes late. The clock did not have an AM or PM display or even a Date display. So are will looking at just 31 minutes of time travel or 100,000 Years and 31 Minutes?

The authors said that this polar bear mystery could be solved by watching the Orchid Station clip. That makes clear that the polar bear is not that old, but just it had been somehow transported to the middle of the desert.

I believe that the time on the Island and off the Island are exactly the same. The time-scramble problem appears to be completely random and happens only in the "storm" that surrounds the Island. Once you're out of the storm time goes back to normal.

That explain the missile and the fact that the helicopter trip took 2 days, but the passengers felt like it was 20 minutes.

1) casimir effect

2) helicoptor ride + rocket took a long time to pass through the storm. Confirmed by losties at the island, and the woman on the satellite phone ("they have not arrived yet"). At the storm time seems to go slower depending on the bearing.

The "enhanced" version of "eggtown" verified that it was Day 93 on the Island, which is December 23rd. After a day of waiting to hear from the chopper, that makes it December 24th on the island, at the same time it is December 24th in England.

This is to be expected, as "slow-time on the island" as NEVER made any sense, for a multitude of reasons; from date-time correlations on/off the island in many other situations, to the fact that real-time voice transmissions are heard at normal speed.

Things crossing the island barrier, or boundary layer, (which is apparently marked by a thunderhead), skip forward in time, regardless of te direction of travel. The rocket skipped forward in time 31 minutes, and the helicopter skipped forward about a day.

I think the amount of time it skips forward is likely to be dependent on speed. The rocket was traveling at mach 7 (80 km / 27 seconds), and the top speed for a Huey is 127 MPH. If the amount of time skiped is linearly dependent on speed, the helicopter would have skipped forward by (127 MPH / mach 7) * 31 minutes = 22.7 hours, or about a day.
Good post. I agree.

Bear with me... I read (albeit 13 years ago) Stephen Hawkings "A Brief History in Time". This book did appear in the episode "Not In Portland", so it should have some relevance. Although I can't quote the pages exactly, I do remember him talking about (these are his theories BTW, they are not proven even in real science) time can operate differently than how we are accustomed to perceiving it... when you are talking about events occurring near large gravitational/electromagnetic forces and/or as objects approach the speed of light.


Just want to point out that this theory of time, knows as time dilation, was Einstein's and was proposed in his theories of relativity long before Hawking was born.

Besides that, time dilation has been proven to be true in "real science" via empirical observations.

You kind of made it sound like any time discrepancies would be off in the "theoretical" area when it could actually be rooted firmly in proven science.

If Island Time and Real Time are the same what's the use of the Barrier causing a shift in that time? If all that happens when you either come or go from the Island is that time shifts a bit but ultimately stays the same...what's the point?At low levels, a time shift wouldn't make much difference. But if, say, a month had passed (on and off the island), but only twenty (20) minutes had passed on the helicopter, it would have been a bigger deal. Imagine if it had taken an entire year in real time between take-off and landing.

If you hit the barrier right (remember Daniel stressing the point to Frank, remember Ben stressing the point to Michael) you don't lose time (or you'll lose minimal time). If you hit it wrong you can lose lots 'o time. The rocket lost 30 minutes. Sayid and Desmond lost a day.But the rocket didn't lose time, it gained it. The