There seem to be different schools of thought on the freighter about dealing with the losties as well as different levels of knowledge. Lapidus seemed to genuinely want to help Sayid and Desmond, but he didn't seem to know everything about the mission. He seemed to be barely tolerated by Keamey and Omar, along with Faraday, I believe it was the doctor who said, Faraday can't take care of himself half the time. Keamey and Omar seemed to be hired muscle who were out of the loop about the nature of the island, Omar said, at least we know we're still in the pacific." Minkowski told them they were waiting for their orders to come in when the mainland communication equipment, so some on the freighter know more about the mission than others, I'm sure the unseen captain and key command personnel know the full scope of the mission. On the freighter, Keamey, Omar, and the doctor seemed to consider Sayid and Desmond a threat, while Lapidus seemed to want to help them. It extended on the island Faraday wanted to tell the losties about the time anomaly(or whatever it is) while Charlotte was against. Charlotte even said, rather sarcastically should I wring my hands and say a prayer to Jack and Juliet's concerns. It seems as though there are different schools of thought about dealing with the island among the freighties.

I think you are exactly right. Which one of them referred to Naomi as "upper management?" This would imply that Naomi was more in the know than than most. I wonder if she knew anything about the time issues.

I think you are exactly right. Which one of them referred to Naomi as "upper management?" This would imply that Naomi was more in the know than than most. I wonder if she knew anything about the time issues.
That leads me to believe that the freightastic four were given the information they needed and made to believe they knew everything, doesn't make me think they're not a threat.

Here's my take on the freighties:

Yes, they are there to kill everyone and take the island. This ulterior motive was revealed to Locke and Ben through Walt and a spy. So I think this is their ultimate goal.

With this kind of covert operation each member is informed on a "Need to know" basis. Naomi was upper management so she knew everything about the mission. Frank is just a pilot -- he doens't need to know anything and likely doesn't know much as we've seen illustrated by his actions of helping the Losties.

Charlotte seems to know more than the other Freighties and doesn't seem keen on helping. Dan and Miles are probably on the same level as Charlotte in their knowledge, maybe not quite as much. Pergapos Charlotte knows more about the island than they do becasue of her research.

Keamey, Omar and the Doctor seem like they are more on a level of knowledge with Naomi becasue the Doctor trusted K & O and seemed to know something about what was happening to Minkowski (and Desmond.)

So I don't think there are different schools of thought on what to do but different levels of information.

Here's my take on the freighties:


Yes, they are there to kill everyone and take the island. This ulterior motive was revealed to Locke and Ben through Walt and a spy. So I think this is their ultimate goal.

I don't think killing everyone on the island is their ultimate goal, it just a matter of the islanders being in their way. Funny how quickly the losties have become natives.


With this kind of covert operation each member is informed on a "Need to know" basis. Naomi was upper management so she knew everything about the mission. Frank is just a pilot -- he doens't need to know anything and likely doesn't know much as we've seen illustrated by his actions of helping the Losties.

I get the feeling Frank was chosen simply because of his skills as a pilot, he might be an extraordinary pilot, look at the ease with which he navigated through the storm/anamoly.

Charlotte seems to know more than the other Freighties and doesn't seem keen on helping. Dan and Miles are probably on the same level as Charlotte in their knowledge, maybe not quite as much. Pergapos Charlotte knows more about the island than they do becasue of her research.

Charlotte does know more about the island through her research. She also seems to be arrogant enough to consider dealing with the losties an inconvenience. Am I alone in thinking that she came off as a total b*&%A when she said, "Should I wring my hands and whisper a prayer?" Talk about absolutely no empathy for the losties ordeal on the island.


Keamey, Omar and the Doctor seem like they are more on a level of knowledge with Naomi becasue the Doctor trusted K & O and seemed to know something about what was happening to Minkowski (and Desmond.)

Keamey, Omar, and the doctor may know about the time displacement but that doesn't mean they know everything. It could've been a need to know situation, in order for "senior management" to get Keamey and Omar to lock away the ship's communications officer away they may have had to tell them why.


So I don't think there are different schools of thought on what to do but different levels of information.

Yes, there are different levels of information, but also diferent schools of thought about how to deal with the losties. Keamey, Omar, the doctor, and Charlotte seem to believe they are an obstacle who shouldn't be told anything. While Farday and Lapidus seem to want to help them. I would put Minkowski in this latter category simply because he has been locked up and seems to be studied by his own people.

I thought the whole "prayer" comment was funny considering who her character is named after...

And of course we find out about Mr. Minkowski. So to easily sum it up, someone talked to Penny. Someone was offered a large amount of Money to find Desmond (Naomi, it explains the picture). With the splinter groups, obviously the team that was sent to capture the island didn't like the veering off the plan. Minkowski is drugged, radio gear is sabotaged.

We also know something about those phones, they only call each other.

I thought the whole "prayer" comment was funny considering who her character is named after...

Ha! Yeah, one of my buddies pointed that out.

I agree that there are factions on the freighter, and it totally might be related to the level of knowledge each person has about the mission... Dan and Frank seem intent on helping the Losties... In the grand scheme of things, I really think Charlotte is kind of neutral... she doesn't seem real antagonistic to them, but she's not in any rush to help them, either. Miles is on Miles' team, and the new ones we've met tonight.... Damn. The Doctor especially seemed quite creepy.

I thought the whole "prayer" comment was funny considering who her character is named after...
C.S. Lewis converted to christianity, so maybe that's a clue that Charlotte's views will change, it's probably more the narnia thing though.

I am totally burned out on the topic of time travel so I am hoping we can discuss other aspects of The Constant.This is something I have been thinking about but haven't seen a thread on. Are there two different factions on the boat? It seems that Charlotte, Miles and Faraday are all scientists and Lapidus was needed as a pilot so that is there expedition. I think the crew maybe working on some other project. Here's how I got there.The guys on the freighter are very skeptical of Faraday and I am going to assume Charlotte as well because it looks like she is working with Faraday and whatever he is trying to prove. Maybe they are working with Miles but I doubt it as he is trying to blackmail Ben. So what exactly are these guy's there for? I am just not convinced yet that they are there to kill everyone on they island I think that any death sentence that awaits the islanders is because of the "Side Effect " Any thoughts?

Well, um, it's extortion if you want to get technical. While I don't think Miles is an actual scientist, I think he's there for purely selfish reasons. Charlotte and Daniel seem to be there for the scientific nature of the island and hope to make some breakthrough discoveries in the field of science. Charlotte's finding the polar bear in Tunisia is significant because it brings up the possibility of teleportation, or something similar. We've seen that Daniel's experiments in the past parallel the natural effects on the island. I think the freighter crew was hired, like Naomi, to escort/protect Daniel, Charlotte, and Miles. Frank is there because they need a pilot and he wants to find his friend.

As for the question of whether or not they are supposed to kill everyone on the island, I have a thought but it is largely influenced by a preview I watched of next episode.

Charlotte and Daniel are in the jungle talking, and Charlotte is trying to convince a doubtful Daniel that he can "do this." Kate finds them and asks what they are doing and asks to see what's in Daniel's bag. He opens it to reveal gas masks. We already know there was a cargo box with them that was on the chopper. When was the last time we saw gas masks on the island????

Lol about the extortion line. Hmm that spoiler is interesting. But you don't think that maybe the guy on the freighter have any other mission? I wonder how much support they could be Faraday, Charlotte and Miles from so far away. Plus it appears that they will suffer the same fate as Minkowski and Brandon if they get any closer.

As for the question of whether or not they are supposed to kill everyone on the island, I have a thought but it is largely influenced by a preview I watched of next episode.

Charlotte and Daniel are in the jungle talking, and Charlotte is trying to convince a doubtful Daniel that he can "do this." Kate finds them and asks what they are doing and asks to see what's in Daniel's bag. He opens it to reveal gas masks. We already know there was a cargo box with them that was on the chopper. When was the last time we saw gas masks on the island????

In addition to that, the sneak peek for next week on abc.com shows:

Daniel in front of a computer screen which is warning "Containment Breach: Evacuate all non-essential personnel (or something like that)

Lol about the extortion line.

:biggrin:

Hmm that spoiler is interesting. But you don't think that maybe the guy on the freighter have any other mission? I wonder how much support they could be Faraday, Charlotte and Miles from so far away. Plus it appears that they will suffer the same fate as Minkowski and Brandon if they get any closer.Well, I think the crew was not told much of what was going on. For instance, they mention that they last made port in Fiji, so they at least know they're still in the South Pacific. In Naomi's flashback, she was being recruited to take those four in and keep them alive. She does mentions it being hostile territory, but it seems she was the only military personnel that was there to protect them. All the other people we've seen thus far seem to have duties restricted to the freighter. To add to that, Daniel seemed to be integral in arriving on the island without side effects. The crew are supposed to stay on the freighter.

I think because it is regarded as hostile territory, they were sent in with instructions to kill anyone they come in contact with to avoid any undesirable situations. That would explain the gas masks that were in the cargo box dropped from the helicopter. Since Naomi is dead, they have to carry out these actions on their own. Daniel seems compassionate and would have a hard time with this, but Charlotte seems to only care about the mission. I think Miles would have no problem killing anyone in their way. I think they are supposed to actually kill The Others, but since the 815 survivors aren't "supposed" to be there, they are just kind of included. The mission doesn't include saving ~40 people, so they would be regarded as expendable.

Bizarre. I clicked on "New Posts" and, having read the titles of the first few threads, asked myself "Can we please discuss something other than time travel!?". Thank you, deeannek. :)

Although I thoroughly enjoy time travel stories, I can't believe that so many people are now attempting to fit every single event we've seen in Lost into a time travel theory. It just isn't going to work like that. Not every strange thing we've seen will have been caused by time travel.

Anyway, my view on the debate being had here (and I don't read spoilers) is that the mission priorities will not have changed. The gas masks in the box earlier this season are a strong warning sign. Their main mission priority may not have been to go in and kill everyone, but I don't think Naomi would have been worried had that become necessary. The same with Charlotte. Miles comes across as stronger than he actualy is. I actually feel that he is very insecure and frightened, and that his agressive behaviour is an attempt to mask that.

Other points of interest in the epi, for me, were the door being opened by Sayid and Desmond's 'friend' and why Keamy and Omar were apparently so unhappy that Frank had brought Sayid and Desmond to the boat.

Two good questions brought up above...1. Is the "friend on the boat" = Ben's man on the boat? 2. Are the Frieghties supposed to kill the Losties?

Would it be helpful to Ben's man to help Desmond and Sayid? Well we know Sayid ends up working for Ben and may have already been working for Ben pre-island without knowing it (through Kelvin and Sam Austen). I think it's very possible Ben's man is our "friend."

Secondly, perhaps the intent is not to kill the Losties or Ben, but to tranquilize them or knock them out. Maybe the Frieghties' phasers are set to stun and not to kill. What would convince 4 random strangers to unite in killing a group of plane crash survivors should they be found to exist? If this were Naomi's operation and she died, who else would have prepped the four to go in and finish the job? Also why not send the thugs on the boat if killing were the goal...instead of a 99 pound physics guru and "head case" and a barely legal anthropologist..etc. ?

I think the Losties are insignificant to the goals of the Freighties and the Freighties need them to get lost again so they can continue their experiements. I also don't think the Freighties know everything themselves...about Penny and Widmore and the Black Rock...but have been promised answers themselves after they complete certain tasks.

I think Widmore may just be looking for treasure..the Black Rock's gold, which Ben has...all 3.2 million dollars worth.

I like they theory about the Black Rock that sounds right on target. Also I just don't get how anyone could truly expect Faraday to kill anyone Just doesn't seem the type. Plus only four well three now against what is shaping up to be a pretty sizable island population seems like a pretty big task. Faraday is getting know these people probably eating their food, and Charlotte is too. I just think that killing them will be difficult at best.

i think the four may have been chosen for:
-Miles ...his paranormal powers
-Charlotte... anthropology...she seems really interested in the Dharma stuff...i'm sure she knows a lot about Dharma and he's probably there to understand/discover what happened with the dharma initiative...
-Dan...is clearly here for his electromagnetism knowledge who has lead them to the island and who can possibly be helpful to understand some things about the island.
-Frank...probably because he's a good pilot, he studied the manifest so he's the one who knows who are the natives and the oceanic ones... but it's a little short to be engaged in a mission like that..we possibly don't know everything about him yet!

I think Widmore may just be looking for treasure..the Black Rock's gold, which Ben has...all 3.2 million dollars worth.

I think that was a Doctor Evil moment :biggrin:


Somehow, I don't think Widmore would be going to all that trouble for a mere 3.2mil in gold. From what we already know about the Island, just having control of it could be worth billions in the long term and potentially grant 'immortality' or at least a guaranteed long, healthy life.

I think Widmore may just be looking for treasure..the Black Rock's gold, which Ben has...all 3.2 million dollars worth.

I think there's a mine on the island...(of non metallic minerals...so maybe diamonds or something like that?) and i think Ben owns it that's why he's rich...
Dharma had a gemologist...i'm not so sure it was only a philanthropic organisation...:rolleyes: maybe they took it from the natives that's why problems occured with the natives...
And like you i think widmore wants to find where this mine is...

I think Widmore may just be looking for treasure..the Black Rock's gold, which Ben has...all 3.2 million dollars worth.

A very good point, but I think Widmore is rich enough already to not be worried about a measly 3.2 mil. He paid £380k (almost $800k) for the Ledger.

I think Miles is the one who knows about the money, in the same way that he knew about the cash in the grandson's bedroom. It's his own secret agenda, and I'm not sure the rest of the freighties know about it.

To answer your question, yes. I don't mind the otherworldly stuff in Lost as long as it doesn't overshadow the worldly stuff - greed, hidden agendas, conflicting agendas, etc. What I've read so far on this thread reminds me of something that happened early in Season 3. When the Others told Ben about Desmond's sail boat, he said, "I want that boat." So they steal it and whoop and holler as they're cruising away with it. But how does stealing this boat help them fulfill their agenda, whatever it might be?

Minkowski goes on a joy ride to see the island and comes back with a bloody nose. Miles tries to extort money from Ben and gets a grenade shoved in his mouth. These characters are driven by different things and the only hope the losties have is that the bad people keep doing things for the wrong reasons.

When the Others told Ben about Desmond's sail boat, he said, "I want that boat." So they steal it and whoop and holler as they're cruising away with it. But how does stealing this boat help them fulfill their agenda, whatever it might be?


Wow - this made me think of a few things that probably everybody but me realized a few months ago but are just occurring to me. So maybe someone can clear it up for me.

I remember now about Ben being surprised that the Losties had a boat. Isn't this kind of weird since Kelvin was working on it in that bay for like 3 years?? Wouldn't one of the Others have noticed it in that amount of time?? Also, does this not tell us that Ben did not know about the Pearl station because, if he did, he would've been able to see Desmond join Kelvin and would therefore heard or learned that Desmond arrived on a boat?? Maybe he wasn't lying when he said he didn't even know about the Swan? Maybe that's a little stretch because he might have been able to view them on the monitors but I don't know if there was audio. But even if Ben saw Desmond, wouldn't he have investigated how he got there?

And doesn't this prove that Kelvin and Ben did not personally know each other as Ben would surely have questioned Kelvin about Desmond?

I feel like I'm rambling now but all of this hit me kind of fast. I guess I kind of realized it before in a vague way but didn't fully realize all the implications of it.

Anyway, I guess just more food for thought!

I think that was a Doctor Evil moment :biggrin:


Somehow, I don't think Widmore would be going to all that trouble for a mere 3.2mil in gold. From what we already know about the Island, just having control of it could be worth billions in the long term and potentially grant 'immortality' or at least a guaranteed long, healthy life.

That's probably why Windemore is looking for the Island, it could be worth billions. And that's probably why he really wanted to win that Black Rock ledger at the auction because it contains information about the Island and maybe even a way as to how to find it.

Naomi said Frank was a drunk, maybe they hired him because he was suppose to fly flight 815 and thought he had some technical knowledge about the plane.

I think if Widmore is behind the freighter he is looking for something greater than the Black Rock's treasure, he is supposedly a billionaire, he's looking for something money can't buy. I like the idea that freighties aren't there to necessarily kill the losties, definitely the others don't know about the losties though, unfortunately Ben is probably telling the truth for once when he says they're in danger to, the freighties aren't going to make distinctions between good and evil, everyone is in there way and will be killed. The freighties do seem to be treating the losties as a minor obstacle but the losties have already killed the team's protector, taken two of them hostage and already complicated their plans by forcing the freighties to deal with them. My question is, and I don't mean to turn this into a Jack bashing thread, but how long before he has to answer to his team for telling them that Daniel and Charlotte could make arrangements to get them off the island, when he knew when he said it that wasn't the case, and it is becoming increasingly clear to the losties that rescue isn't on the freighties agenda?

Widmore is the financing behind the Dharma Initiative, and outsiders are finding out, slowly but surely, like with any secret, what's going on on the island. Widmore is doing everything to protect his interests. Widmore is more crucial to this story than the writers are letting us know at this time. This is just my opinion.

Widmore is the financing behind the Dharma Initiative, and outsiders are finding out, slowly but surely, like with any secret, what's going on on the island. Widmore is doing everything to protect his interests. Widmore is more crucial to this story than the writers are letting us know at this time. This is just my opinion.
I don't if Widmore is behind the Dharma Initiative, but he is definitely behind the freighter. I see it this way. After the purge, the Dharma Initiative's organization in the outside world collapsed but the research and a papertrail as well as former members of their support network in the outside world are still alive. Widmore found out about it and wants to exploit something on the island. I don't think they want Ben simply for revenge for the purge(that would be boring, for me anyway), I think Ben has some kind of information in his head that they need to accomplish their true ends.

I don't if Widmore is behind the Dharma Initiative, but he is definitely behind the freighter. I see it this way. After the purge, the Dharma Initiative's organization in the outside world collapsed but the research and a papertrail as well as former members of their support network in the outside world are still alive. Widmore found out about it and wants to exploit something on the island. I don't think they want Ben simply for revenge for the purge(that would be boring, for me anyway), I think Ben has some kind of information in his head that they need to accomplish their true ends.

I think Widmore may have financed the initial Dharma Initiative and the collapse is causing him to 'find' the island, ie Penny looking for Desmand, or even he knows how to get there, but is a 'silent' partner? Perhaps he's wanting to recoup his loses. Anyway, he's definitely involved, more so than we know at this time. Since we've met Widmore, I knew there was more to him, he's a key player.

I think Widmore may have financed the initial Dharma Initiative and the collapse is causing him to 'find' the island, ie Penny looking for Desmand, or even he knows how to get there, but is a 'silent' partner? Perhaps he's wanting to recoup his loses. Anyway, he's definitely involved, more so than we know at this time. Since we've met Widmore, I knew there was more to him, he's a key player.
I think if Widmore is looking for the island, it's not to recoup any investment, nothing to do with money, he would be looking for something money can't buy. There are forces on the island that if someone could harness them would make the controller very powerful.

I think if Widmore is looking for the island, it's not to recoup any investment, nothing to do with money, he would be looking for something money can't buy. There are forces on the island that if someone could harness them would make the controller very powerful.

I don't know if this has been theorized, but, the Fountain of Youth, Shangri La, eternal life? If he controlled that, he'd be more than powerful, he'd control the world, perhaps he's seeking world control via the powers of this Island. Have you ever seen the movie Lost Horizon? (http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title.jsp?stid=3770), scroll down, read the synopsis.

Miles, Frank and Charlotte were just hired for this specific mission. All the others like Naomi are part of Abaddon's crew, which is DI.

Miles, Frank and Charlotte were just hired for this specific mission. All the others like Naomi are part of Abaddon's crew, which is DI.
I've posted this in theories, but I'll say it here to, there has been no evidence to suggest that Abbadon's crew is Dharma, I'm not saying they're not Dharma, I'm just saying that there has been no evidence to suggest they're Dharma. And don't say the pattern on Abbadon's tie was a Dharma symbol, a vaguely familiar tie pattern does not a Dharma member make.

I've posted this in theories, but I'll say it here to, there has been no evidence to suggest that Abbadon's crew is Dharma, I'm not saying they're not Dharma, I'm just saying that there has been no evidence to suggest they're Dharma. And don't say the pattern on Abbadon's tie was a Dharma symbol, a vaguely familiar tie pattern does not a Dharma member make.

I haven't seen his tie, do you have a link to the photo? Thanks....

I've posted this in theories, but I'll say it here to, there has been no evidence to suggest that Abbadon's crew is Dharma, I'm not saying they're not Dharma, I'm just saying that there has been no evidence to suggest they're Dharma. And don't say the pattern on Abbadon's tie was a Dharma symbol, a vaguely familiar tie pattern does not a Dharma member make.

So you're saying that you're not what really sure what you think, but it could be anyway true?

I have to say i might agree, but there is no evidence, but i still think it is plausible.

So you're saying that you're not what really sure what you think, but it could be anyway true?

I have to say i might agree, but there is no evidence, but i still think it is plausible.
Yes, that is essentially what I'm saying. The show has presented no evidence that the freighter is Dharma, they could be, I don't think they are that would be a little boring, traveling thousands of miles and spending millions of dollars for revenge. I understand the theory that Charles Widmore is connected to the freighter because evidence has presented within the show for that, but not Dharma.

So you mean it could be true, but it could be the other way around too. And there is no evidence about either.

Interesting.

I've always said Abaddon's team is DI and i still think it is. It's the best way to explain how they had Des' photo of Penny. They are not there for a revenge, but to take the island back.

Yes, that is essentially what I'm saying. The show has presented no evidence that the freighter is Dharma, they could be, I don't think they are that would be a little boring, traveling thousands of miles and spending millions of dollars for revenge. I understand the theory that Charles Widmore is connected to the freighter because evidence has presented within the show for that, but not Dharma.

We don't know the mission of the freighter, all we are doing is speculating. Could be Dharma, could be Widmore, perhaps it's an entirely new set of players. Maybe the freighter is part of the Hanso group. We'll find out why their there and who's behind it. It's too important a piece of info, it's not like it's Nikki and Paulo.

Whoever these people are on the freighter, they definately do not run a tight ship. It seems that not many people follow orders. Minkowsky answers calls he's not supposed to (or at least knows more than he's supposed to), folks are stealing boats for joyrides to the island, someone cuts all the communication lines, and still no one does anything more than lock a door on three "prisoners"... Sayid and Desmond had a lot of time in that phone room. Half the team that goes to the island has no qualms about saying more than they should (which is nice for us!). Not much discipline.

Whoever these people are on the freighter, they definately do not run a tight ship. It seems that not many people follow orders. Minkowsky answers calls he's not supposed to (or at least knows more than he's supposed to), folks are stealing boats for joyrides to the island, someone cuts all the communication lines, and still no one does anything more than lock a door on three "prisoners"... Sayid and Desmond had a lot of time in that phone room. Half the team that goes to the island has no qualms about saying more than they should (which is nice for us!). Not much discipline.
I have the theory that the island doesn't want the freighties there and is doing everything it can to prevent them from accomplishing their mission, which is one explanation for all of the troubles that have befallen the freighties.

I think Widmore may just be looking for treasure..the Black Rock's gold, which Ben has...all 3.2 million dollars worth.
seems like Miles may be looking for it too. Have you posted this on any of the "WHY 3.2M " threads?

I think you are exactly right. Which one of them referred to Naomi as "upper management?" This would imply that Naomi was more in the know than than most. I wonder if she knew anything about the time issues.

We know that she is the MOST upper management based on her conversation with Abbadon. She was the one in charge of the freightastic four for sure.

Here's my take on the freighties:

Yes, they are there to kill everyone and take the island. This ulterior motive was revealed to Locke and Ben through Walt and a spy. So I think this is their ultimate goal.

With this kind of covert operation each member is informed on a "Need to know" basis. Naomi was upper management so she knew everything about the mission. Frank is just a pilot -- he doens't need to know anything and likely doesn't know much as we've seen illustrated by his actions of helping the Losties.

Charlotte seems to know more than the other Freighties and doesn't seem keen on helping. Dan and Miles are probably on the same level as Charlotte in their knowledge, maybe not quite as much. Pergapos Charlotte knows more about the island than they do becasue of her research.

Keamey, Omar and the Doctor seem like they are more on a level of knowledge with Naomi becasue the Doctor trusted K & O and seemed to know something about what was happening to Minkowski (and Desmond.)

So I don't think there are different schools of thought on what to do but different levels of information.

Agree, I think Eight has some military background. Troops have a job, and their job is simple...wait for your orders, then carry them out. The "need to know" basis is important to any military mission. In Abbadon's conversation with Naomi, she was concerned that they "can't just drop 4 people on that island without any military training" so it seems to me that there is some military type operation that is supposed to happen here. What that is, I don't know.

And of course we find out about Mr. Minkowski. So to easily sum it up, someone talked to Penny. Someone was offered a large amount of Money to find Desmond (Naomi, it explains the picture). With the splinter groups, obviously the team that was sent to capture the island didn't like the veering off the plan. Minkowski is drugged, radio gear is sabotaged.

We also know something about those phones, they only call each other.

Minkowski intrigues me. He seemed like such an authority figure in the season finale...then looks like someone with no importance in this episode? One of the freighties (Frank, I think) made mention that if Minkowski gets on the phone, just hang up...almost like he was afraid to speak with him. Still can't figure that one out.

It is possible that Naomi had the picture of Des/Pen because she got it from Widmore. That seems to make the most sense since Penny knew nothing of this freighter. It is reasonable to assume that Widmore is behind this operation.


It seems that Charlotte, Miles and Faraday are all scientists and Lapidus was needed as a pilot so that is there expedition. I think the crew maybe working on some other project. Here's how I got there.The guys on the freighter are very skeptical of Faraday and I am going to assume Charlotte as well because it looks like she is working with Faraday and whatever he is trying to prove. Maybe they are working with Miles but I doubt it as he is trying to blackmail Ben. So what exactly are these guy's there for? I am just not convinced yet that they are there to kill everyone on they island I think that any death sentence that awaits the islanders is because of the "Side Effect " Any thoughts?

I think that the first four on the island are there to find a way for safe passage for the rest of the crew. I think that is what they were hired for. There may be some experiments that they have to do too but all with the end result of finding a way to get the other freighties on (and back off) of the island safely.

I also believe that all 4 have motives to be there other than the mission. We have seen clues for 2 of the 4 so far...

Miles is there to blackmail Ben...his mission is to find Ben and capture him but he has figured out a little twist for a cool 3.2 large.

Frank is there because he wants answers to the alternate 815 (at least I think so) He was obviously shaken with the news of the wreck find, and thinks that there is a cover-up.

Faraday and Charlotte ahve yet to reveal any other motives but I would not be surprised to see that they have one.

None of them are surprised to see the survivors though...this is strange because Abbadon goes out of his way to tell Naomi that there were no survivors??? Yet when they land on the island, the only one surprised to see them IS Naomi.

In the 4 background stories, Frank knew that wasn't 815, Charlotte made mention that she will read the story in every language before she will believe it, Faraday breaks down when he gets the news and Miles couldn't care less about the news but they ALL expected to find the survivors...at least they weren't surprised to see them... Any insight on THIS question would be great!


Anyway, my view on the debate being had here (and I don't read spoilers) is that the mission priorities will not have changed. The gas masks in the box earlier this season are a strong warning sign. Their main mission priority may not have been to go in and kill everyone, but I don't think Naomi would have been worried had that become necessary. The same with Charlotte. Miles comes across as stronger than he actualy is. I actually feel that he is very insecure and frightened, and that his agressive behaviour is an attempt to mask that.

I don't think they are there to kill everyone (even though Ben says so just to save his own azz!) My thought on the masks are to protect themselves...just as a defense against any possible threat either from the people on island or something natural to the island.

I have no solid proof of why I think that, just kinda gut feeling.

Other points of interest in the epi, for me, were the door being opened by Sayid and Desmond's 'friend' and why Keamy and Omar were apparently so unhappy that Frank had brought Sayid and Desmond to the boat.

I think the friend on the boat has to be Michael...I am spoiler free but the fact that the actor's name has appeared on most episode credits tells me we will see him soon. Even without that, he is the only character that we have seen that has left the island except for Ethan (dead) and Richard who is supposed to be at the "temple".

I think they are upset about bringing Des and Sayid to the boat is simple...that was not part of the mission. Frank did not follow orders.

I don't if Widmore is behind the Dharma Initiative, but he is definitely behind the freighter. I see it this way. After the purge, the Dharma Initiative's organization in the outside world collapsed but the research and a papertrail as well as former members of their support network in the outside world are still alive. Widmore found out about it and wants to exploit something on the island. I don't think they want Ben simply for revenge for the purge(that would be boring, for me anyway), I think Ben has some kind of information in his head that they need to accomplish their true ends.

I thought that TPTB said that there is no more Dharma right? I agree with woland's theory here completely...Widmore is about POWER...that's what he is after, not money.

I think if Widmore is looking for the island, it's not to recoup any investment, nothing to do with money, he would be looking for something money can't buy. There are forces on the island that if someone could harness them would make the controller very powerful.

Right again. Either harnessing the power of the island or maybe the "fountain of youth" idea that a previous poster mentioned.

Thanks for this thread and sorry for the long post. I too wanted to talk about something other than constants, timeshifts, yada, yada, yada.

Me too Lenny, I was sick of talking about timetravel, constants, and the like. It was an important part of the episode, and will probably be important to the future of Lost And I have no doubt that time travel will be used as an explanation for the past and future mysteries on the show. But time travel wasn' the only f-ing part of the episode. I mean my god we got confirmaion there was a freighter out there, but wait that was just an illusion created by the time shift reflected off of Vincent. Just kidding.

Minkowski intrigues me. He seemed like such an authority figure in the season finale...then looks like someone with no importance in this episode? One of the freighties (Frank, I think) made mention that if Minkowski gets on the phone, just hang up...almost like he was afraid to speak with him. Still can't figure that one out.

It is possible that Naomi had the picture of Des/Pen because she got it from Widmore. That seems to make the most sense since Penny knew nothing of this freighter. It is reasonable to assume that Widmore is behind this operation.


Like I said, Penny has been radioing the area since the hatch blew. The freighties were told to NOT answer the call. I believe some of them did, including Minkowski, and Naomi was in on it. Why not make a few extra bucks while out there? This is why I believe the communications were sabotaged, because someone didn't follow orders and made contact with Penny. Now I cannot recall what the convo between Des/Penny was, aside from the important stuff. Meaning, I don't recall if this was mentioned at all. It seems somewhat logical to me. I'll have to rewatch again.

Like I said, Penny has been radioing the area since the hatch blew. The freighties were told to NOT answer the call. I believe some of them did, including Minkowski, and Naomi was in on it. Why not make a few extra bucks while out there? This is why I believe the communications were sabotaged, because someone didn't follow orders and made contact with Penny. Now I cannot recall what the convo between Des/Penny was, aside from the important stuff. Meaning, I don't recall if this was mentioned at all. It seems somewhat logical to me. I'll have to rewatch again.

I think they were told not to answer the call because Widmore is in charge of this mission and he knew that his daughter was trying to find the island...he knew that it was Penny on the other end of that call.

As far as the sabotage, once again I believe that it was Michael that cut communications on Ben's orders. Ben didn't want them to find the island and if he does have "a man on the boat", I would think that he would want the communications down.

Penny mentions to Des during the call that she knows about the island (from the season 2 finale when the research station contacted her after the hatch blew) and she knew he was alive after speaking with Charlie.

Wow - this made me think of a few things that probably everybody but me realized a few months ago but are just occurring to me. So maybe someone can clear it up for me.

I remember now about Ben being surprised that the Losties had a boat. Isn't this kind of weird since Kelvin was working on it in that bay for like 3 years?? Wouldn't one of the Others have noticed it in that amount of time?? Also, does this not tell us that Ben did not know about the Pearl station because, if he did, he would've been able to see Desmond join Kelvin and would therefore heard or learned that Desmond arrived on a boat?? Maybe he wasn't lying when he said he didn't even know about the Swan? Maybe that's a little stretch because he might have been able to view them on the monitors but I don't know if there was audio. But even if Ben saw Desmond, wouldn't he have investigated how he got there?

And doesn't this prove that Kelvin and Ben did not personally know each other as Ben would surely have questioned Kelvin about Desmond?

I feel like I'm rambling now but all of this hit me kind of fast. I guess I kind of realized it before in a vague way but didn't fully realize all the implications of it.

Anyway, I guess just more food for thought!

Ben knew about the pearl station because he went there in the episode Exposé with Juliet ...

There seem to be different schools of thought on the freighter about dealing with the losties as well as different levels of knowledge. Lapidus seemed to genuinely want to help Sayid and Desmond, but he didn't seem to know everything about the mission. He seemed to be barely tolerated by Keamey and Omar, along with Faraday, I believe it was the doctor who said, Faraday can't take care of himself half the time. Keamey and Omar seemed to be hired muscle who were out of the loop about the nature of the island, Omar said, at least we know we're still in the pacific." Minkowski told them they were waiting for their orders to come in when the mainland communication equipment, so some on the freighter know more about the mission than others, I'm sure the unseen captain and key command personnel know the full scope of the mission. On the freighter, Keamey, Omar, and the doctor seemed to consider Sayid and Desmond a threat, while Lapidus seemed to want to help them. It extended on the island Faraday wanted to tell the losties about the time anomaly(or whatever it is) while Charlotte was against. Charlotte even said, rather sarcastically should I wring my hands and say a prayer to Jack and Juliet's concerns. It seems as though there are different schools of thought about dealing with the island among the freighties.

Seems like everyone has their own agenda.
The non-freightastic four bunch, may prove Ben to be right. Im thinking back to TE, and it all adds up nicely.



"Welcome to Craphole Island, ill be your host this evening" ; )

Seems like everyone has their own agenda.
The non-freightastic four bunch, may prove Ben to be right. Im thinking back to TE, and it all adds up nicely

"Welcome to Craphole Island, ill be your host this evening" ; )
This is lost, of course they will have their own agenda. Even if the freighties do have noble motives(and I don't think they do) the already brewing conflict between them and the losties is bound to go bad because from the moment of their arrival the two groups have eyed each other with suspicion and that type of relationship is bound to go bad. I think Ben was telling the truth when he said, they will kill every living person on this island, and people have slammed Jack for not believing him, but given Ben's track record who would? With Ben it was the classic boy who cried wolf scenario, he lied so often that the one time he told the truth hobody believed him, so in a way it was his fault for bringing the freighter to the island.