I am kind of beginning to think that with Desmond
being exposed to such high levels of electromagnetism
resulted in the ability to see the past and the future and
actually acknowledge it. no duh.. keep reading...

I think we may be seeing the same thing but on a sub-conscious
level with the other losties. They don't experience them
like Des does, they are simply memories to the losties
where as Des gets the full experience of traveling to
those places/times.

We are seeing their lives in the past which will lead
them their constant.

So, are you saying the LOSTies are time travelling, or aren't you? I understand you mean it's all about degrees...but I'm wondering...what degree? Clearly we haven't seen any Losties spacing out, ala Des, but... I'm curious to hear more.

I think their minds are traveling..
Desmond's is on a conscious level and experiences it. Due to his exposure.

The Losties are not as exposed, so they may experience it in a more
mild manner, such as a simple memory.

I dunno fully, still trying to wrap my head around it.

Just a, potentially, dumb question, Is this the same thing as FBYE, or was this something different?

I'm kinda leaning toward the 2 events being similar, not exactly the same.

I think they are the same thing, but with more clues and info to put it into
perspective better. I can't wait to go back and watch that episode now.

I really like this idea, EA! Desmond's experience tonight reminded me of a LOSTie (like Jack, Locke, etc.) snapping back from a flashback.

My only question is what is the means, mechanism or
vessel in which we are seeing the Lostie's visions?!

Is it pure editing in the story telling?!

or is it more?!

Are we seeing it through the islands eye, smokie or Jacob?!

We always here that sound when it goes to a flash as well.
The sound of the plane whooshing kind of!

Good theory! The difference is, Desmond was exposed to the energy for 3 years straight at a steady rate. Then when he turned the key to release the energy, he was right there at ground zero as it all moved past him. That day he traveled to 1996. That energy probably hangs now like a snow globe around the island. Today, Desmond passed through the energy again and his consciousness traveled again to the past. The other Losties have not traveled through the energy like Desmond. So any effect it has on them would be different.

From my similar thread...

OK...This time slip thing that Desmond's going through...it's happening to ALL of them, to some extent. Flashing back and forth from one time period to another. It explains why Jack's losing his damn mind, from TTLG. "Get my father down here, and if he's drunker than I am, you can fire me". It explains Hurley losing his mind, Kate's horse on the island, Eko seeing his dead brother, Walt back on the island, talking to Locke in the mass grave...it explains ALL the connections between the characters, in that the first discharge that brought the plane down, it affected them and intermingled their pasts, in the same way that it affected Desmond, maybe to a lesser extent. Desmond just got a full on dose of it, being in the middle of it when he turned the key.

It even explains why Libby was in the nuthouse with Hurley, she was jumping back and forth and went nuts. Their pasts are now intermingled, because of the EM discharge that brought the plane down. That's why we keep seeing other island folks in the regular flashbacks.

My guess is that the EM discharge altered space/time as the characters know it. It took portions of each one from different time periods and intermingled their pasts, such as Desmond running into Jack, running the stadium and the flashbacks. Think about Juliet's flashback episode, we didn't see anyone from 815 in them, off-island, she wasn't exposed to nearly the amount of EM that the 815'ers and Desmond were, if at all.

From my similar thread...

Great minds think alike!
Made some great points.

I thought it would be useful to revisit a couple important scenes from Flashes Before Your Eyes to try and discern what happened to Desmond when he turned the fail-safe key, and what the difference is between what happened to him in FBYE and The Constant.

First, his discussion with Miss Hawking..

DESMOND: This isn't really happening, is it?
MS. HAWKING: Sorry?
DESMOND: I've had a concussion. You're my subconscious.
MS. HAWKING [amused]: Am I?
DESMOND: You're here to talk me out of marrying Penny. Well, it won't bloody work.
MS. HAWKING: Oh, yes it will.
DESMOND: No, there is no island. There is no button. It's madness. I love her. She loves me. I'm going to spend the rest of my life with her.
MS. HAWKING: No, Desmond, you're not.
[Suddenly, there is a loud crash behind the bench Ms. Hawking and Desmond have been sitting on. Some scaffolding has fallen and killed the man with red shoes.]
DESMOND: Oh, my God. You knew that was going to happen, didn't you? [she nods] Then why didn't you stop it? Why didn't you do anything?
MS. HAWKING: Because it wouldn't matter. Had I warned him about the scaffolding tomorrow he'd be hit by a taxi. If I warned him about the taxi, he'd fall in the shower and break his neck. The universe, unfortunately, has a way of course correcting. That man was supposed to die. That was his path just as it's your path to go to the island. You don't do it because you choose to, Desmond. You do it because you're supposed to.
DESMOND: I'm going to meet Penny in an hour. I've got the ring; she'll say yes; I can choose whatever I want.
MS. HAWKING: You may not like your path, Desmond, but pushing that button is the only truly great thing that you will ever do.
DESMOND: How much for the ring?
[Ms. Hawking looks disappointed and walks away.]


And now, the final scene with Charlie where Desmond explains what just happened to him:

CHARLIE: What the hell are you doing?
DESMOND [crying]: You can't change it. You can't change it no matter what you try to do. You just can't change it.
[Hurley makes the gesture for "crazy."]
CHARLIE: He's wankered. Let's get him to his tent. Alright, Des, come on. Give me your arm. Come on stand up. Stand up. Okay, okay.
[Charlie helps Desmond over to a tree near his tent.]
DESMOND: You're a good man, Charlie. Listen, I'm sorry I tried to strangle you, alright?
CHARLIE: Oh, fair play, mate. Sorry I called you a coward.
DESMOND: No, you're right, pal.
CHARLIE: Desmond, you are going to tell me what happened to you.
DESMOND: When I turned that key my life flashed before my eyes. And then I was back in the jungle and still on this bloody island. But those flashes, Charlie -- those flashes -- they didn't stop.
CHARLIE: So, you're telling me you saw a flash of Claire drowning this morning -- that's how you knew how to save her?
DESMOND: I wasn't saving Claire, Charlie, I was saving you. This morning you dove in after Claire. You tried to save her but you drowned.
CHARLIE: What are you talking about? I didn't drown.
DESMOND: When I saw the lightening hit the roof you were electrocuted. And when you heard Claire was in the water you -- you drowned trying to save her. I dove in myself so you never went in. I've tried, brother. I've tried twice to save you, but the universe has a way of course correcting and -- and I can't stop it forever. I'm sorry. I'm sorry because no matter what I try to do you're going to die, Charlie.



And so, a couple questions:

1. The whole idea of course correcting is still really important, I think. Daniel notes that we can't change the future, and this is because the universe course corrects. Desmond, in FBYE and The Constant, makes changes in his past by acting differently, but both have the same end result because the universe course corrected. Is this accurate?

2. Do we think Desmond will continue to have "future" flashes, a la Charlie dying?

3. I got the feeling form this episode that Mr. Widmore is more connected than we thought; could he be a "Miss Hawking" type of entity, or is he more Dharma centered?

Just some more things to think about, 'cause we don't have enough already. :drowsy:

1. The whole idea of course correcting is still really important, I think. Daniel notes that we can't change the future, and this is because the universe course corrects. Desmond, in FBYE and The Constant, makes changes in his past by acting differently, but both have the same end result because the universe course corrected. Is this accurate?

2. Do we think Des will continue to have "future" flashes, a la Charlie dying?

3. I got the feeling form this episode that Mr. Widmore is more connected than we thought; could he be a "Miss Hawking" type of entity, or is he more Dharma centered?

Just some more things to think about, 'cause we don't have enough already. :drowsy:

1. Seems accurate. But it's interesting to see how it changes the path. Liek Faraday's journal mentioning Desmond as his constant. How will that affect the path they take.

2. I don't know. I think maybe he's "cured" now that he's foudn his constant and he won't have anymore flashes.

3. I think he's more Dharma centered in that he somehow found out about their island and he WANTS IT! (more to it obviously, but we'll hopefully see how that unfolds.)

Yeah, I especially think Widmore's interest in Hanso points to a Dharma-esque connection.

Would someone please explain something......Desmond was unable to recognize anyone on the island while having his flashes of 1996. Yet, in FBYE he "traveled" to the past and "returned" to the future island with memory of both. Am i missing something? please help...

I think that the flashes he has been having in FBYE and thereafter, are completely different from what happened in last night's episode.

Last night was a kind of boomerang of consciousness between two fixed timelines, with his knowledge and memory fixed in the past timeline. The stories were continuous, they stopped and started at exactly the moment when his consciousness jumped. I think this phenomenon had something to do with the exposure to the electromagnitism and the fact that the helicopter lost it's bearings.

In FBYE the flashes, the flashes were not life threatening, he did not forget where he was or what was happening. He was also able to make changes in the timeline (bartender). They were almost like chances for Des to consider the consequences of making changes (i.e. Mrs. Hawking). I think they are different, and I hope the flashes continue.

No, I believe that FBYE was the opposite of The Constant.

FBYE had the consciousness of 2004 going back to 1996. The Constant had his consciousness going from 1996 to 2004.

Going from 2004 to 1996 means your WHOLE LIFE is the constant. You KNOW whats happened before so theres a way for your brain to differentiate between the two.

...however.....when jumping from 1996 to 2004, you haven't had any of the experience leading up to 2004. Suddenly your past memories are being filled up with future memories causing this feedback that gets worse and worse until you brain can't differentiate the two and your head explodes.

Now as for the OP...you know, if all the flashbacks we've seen are the side effect of the Island...all I would have to say is, WOW! Now thats cool! :)

If you think about it, the connections these people have with each other could be their constants...


I think that the flashes he has been having in FBYE and thereafter, are completely different from what happened in last night's episode.

Last night was a kind of boomerang of consciousness between two fixed timelines, with his knowledge and memory fixed in the past timeline. The stories were continuous, they stopped and started at exactly the moment when his consciousness jumped. I think this phenomenon had something to do with the exposure to the electromagnitism and the fact that the helicopter lost it's bearings.

In FBYE the flashes, the flashes were not life threatening, he did not forget where he was or what was happening. He was also able to make changes in the timeline (bartender). They were almost like chances for Des to consider the consequences of making changes (i.e. Mrs. Hawking). I think they are different, and I hope the flashes continue.

Whoa!!
It's really hard to tell, but it almost looks like the dog
painting (from Jacob's cabin) is directly behind Desmond
in the ring shop. Search wasn't working before I posted.
Sorry if it has been discussed elsewhere. If so, Mods,
could you please redirect me.

Do you think Smokey would then actually be an electromagnetic field that try to recorrect timeframe occurence. I do remember Eko seeing lots of images from the past in the black smoke.

Would someone please explain something......Desmond was unable to recognize anyone on the island while having his flashes of 1996. Yet, in FBYE he "traveled" to the past and "returned" to the future island with memory of both. Am i missing something? please help...
My take is his flashes in FBYE were caused by the failsafe thing.
The jumpbacks in The Constant were side effects of the trip through the barrier. His failsafe experience predisposed him to those extreme side effects.

So the two were slightly different things caused by different triggers..

I think their minds are traveling..
Desmond's is on a conscious level and experiences it. Due to his exposure.

The Losties are not as exposed, so they may experience it in a more
mild manner, such as a simple memory.

I dunno fully, still trying to wrap my head around it.

Go back to Raised By Another, and watch if Claire's emotional state on the Island seems to seep into her flashbacks, or if her emotions in FB seem to seep into her Island experience. In particular, pay attention to her and how she's feeling sick as she gets closer to her final pair of flashes. That might help. And really pay attention to Charlie's face as he prepares to deliver his line to Claire before her final FB.

There might be more than one way to interpret Ethan's line to Claire in Maternity Leave...

CLAIRE: ...What happened to Charlie?

ETHAN: Charlie? Oh, he's fine. When we got far enough away from camp, I let him go back.

In season 3, ep 8, "Flashes Before Your Eyes", just after Desmond turns the key the last thing he says is "I love you Penny" ... then he wakes up in a pool of paint, on the floor, in his flat.

Penny talks to him, assuming he was drunk, but he hasn't a clue *where or when* he is. He looks at the paint like he has no recollection of painting. His first question is "Whats happening... this is my flat..." like hes pleased and surprised to be in his flat, with Penny.

The episode unfolds, and he ends up getting hit with the cricket bat in the bar, and returns to lying naked on the island (still with the pain of the cricket bat)

We all thought this was some sort of time loop - go back to the forum for that episode for some interesting discussion.... but it looked like the exact same thing (apart from the oscillations, etc) - he definitely existed in one time, jumped straight into another, and straight back to the island again...

Thanks to justashepard23 for the idea (this came from another thread)

I wasn't in on those discussions, but I agree that this is the same thing, just sort of reversed. He was sent backward and what disoriented him was that he was all of a sudden in the past. He could remember some of it, which is fine because noone can remember every detail of every day. In this episode, however, it's like his past self was sent to the future, and since he hadn't lived it yet, that is why he was confused.

In the episode you're talking about, he could remember the island. In season 4, his memory is wiped back to 1996, he has absolutely no memory of the island.

Well you are correct that he time traveled in FBYE but that was something different than this. What happened in the Constant was due to leaving the island. What happened in FBYE happened because of turning the key. Both time travel, but two different aspects of it. Which means that in FBYE he was never in any danger of dying from a brain anyuresm.

And he was ON the island when that happened. Seems like that makes a difference.

And he was ON the island when that happened. Seems like that makes a difference.


Very true, thats what makes those 2 instances similar but different.

maybe he left the island in FBYE by being shot straight up in the air bt the force of the hatch implossion! LOL

Well you are correct that he time traveled in FBYE but that was something different than this. What happened in the Constant was due to leaving the island. What happened in FBYE happened because of turning the key. Both time travel, but two different aspects of it. Which means that in FBYE he was never in any danger of dying from a brain anyuresm.

I don't think they are different, just switched directions. The first time he went backward, the second time forward. Which I guess is different. I can't really word what I'm thinking, but it's like a car. With the engine running the car will move depending on the gear it's in. The time split is like the engine, but the first time he was in reverse. This time the transmission needs to be fixed since it's fluctuating between forward and reverse.

I don't think they are different, just switched directions. The first time he went backward, the second time forward. Which I guess is different. I can't really word what I'm thinking, but it's like a car. With the engine running the car will move depending on the gear it's in. The time split is like the engine, but the first time he was in reverse. This time the transmission needs to be fixed since it's fluctuating between forward and reverse.

Perhaps. When I went back and watched FBYE again it seemed to mean so much more with our new insight :)

I don't think they are different, just switched directions. The first time he went backward, the second time forward. Which I guess is different. I can't really word what I'm thinking, but it's like a car. With the engine running the car will move depending on the gear it's in. The time split is like the engine, but the first time he was in reverse. This time the transmission needs to be fixed since it's fluctuating between forward and reverse.


Well actually no, both he went back. Just one he was unstuck in time and his conciousness was that of 1996. The other time he just stayed in that time period and never jumped back to the present. This time he was unstuck in time and jumping back and forth and messing with his head.