The Tempest facility was actually a Dharma station. I seem to have lost track of just how many we have actually seen based on the hatch Map.

The logo appeared to be some sort of wave . . .

I'm assuming too that this is where Goodwin got his chemical burn, yes?

Yes, definitely. New dharma logos!

I would say the Tempest is definitely where Goodwin got the chemical burn.

It would appear that the Tempest was used in "the Purge."

Yea another Dharma station ahd there is still at least on more.


The Orchid

We'll need some screencaps of the inside, it was huge. Why was there gas there though? Was it from Dharma, or Ben?

Yes. He lied about it being an "electrical station."

That makes 9 Dharma stations that we've seen on the show:

1- The Swan
2- The Arrow
3- The Pearl
4- The Staff
5- The Door
6- The Hydra
7- The Flame
8- The Looking Glass
9- The Tempest

EDIT: Although the door could have been an Others made decoy. We know it was a decoy but we don't know who actually made it.

Ben and Richard definitely used the gas in The Tempest to conduct the purge. Does make you wonder why Ben needed the canister with his dad, though, huh?

Where did Daniel and Charlotte get the map to The Tempest? Ben said Widmore was still looking for the island.... Hmm....

The Door? you mean the fake door? I dont think the fake door on the fake other village would count as a station.

Ben and Richard definitely used the gas in The Tempest to conduct the purge. Does make you wonder why Ben needed the canister with his dad, though, huh?

Where did Daniel and Charlotte get the map to The Tempest? Ben said Widmore was still looking for the island.... Hmm....

VW Bus was probably upwind or higher than the Tempest.As for the map,who knows....
Google Earth or Frank,who got it from Michael.I think it's him on the freighter and is playing Ben.

So where were the Giant Hampsters?

So it appears there's a 'hatch' that some people think is a power station, but which actually is a facility that has huge poison gas stores that can kill everyone on the whole island...how Dr. Evil-esque. Ok....

Now...Daniel is allegedly trying to KEEP it from killing everyone, and he's got a countdown to armaggedon style timer problem, all very dramatic.

So the question is... what/who made it go off, so that he needed to frantically fix the death-valve thingie in order to save everyone? Ben? Wouldnt that kill him? Did I miss something?

Dan turned it on in order to disable it, I'm pretty sure.

Dan activated it in order to attempt to make it "inert."

Am I the only one who thought of Shakespeare's play instead of an actual Tempest when it was mentioned? Then again I was in a production of it last year and for a play I was in early tonight and tomorrow night I'm wearing an old costume from it...

What I'm wondering is, if this is the same gas the Others used, and it goes all over the Island:

Who turned it on? Ben was in the van with his father.

But the bigger question is, what kind of gas kills only people?? Obviously, it didn't affect the polar bears, boars, cows, chickens, and other wildlife on the Island.

So does this mean it was not the same method the Others used or that it was designed, somehow, only for people??

maybe ben was safe in his cell which is why he was "where he wanted to be".

we know ben gassed the original dharma people ... so who knows if he set the wheels in motion on it or not.

I don't know what's going on but I think faraday is a good guy and trying to help regardless if that wasn't his intentions when signing up for the mission or whatever.

Didnt kill Rousseau either...well I suppose she's "wildlife"...

What I'm wondering is, if this is the same gas the Others used, and it goes all over the Island:

Who turned it on? Ben was in the van with his father.

But the bigger question is, what kind of gas kills only people?? Obviously, it didn't affect the polar bears, boars, cows, chickens, and other wildlife on the Island.

So does this mean it was not the same method the Others used or that it was designed, somehow, only for people??

I assume it was Richard who activated the gas the first time. And Goodwin worked with chemicals - what kind of chemicals?

Didnt kill Rousseau either...well I suppose she's "wildlife"...

That's just what I was thinking!! Maybe her ship wrecked after they released it? I want a Rousseau FB!

Didnt kill Rousseau either...well I suppose she's "wildlife"...

Right! I was originally thinking that Danielle wouldn't have been there yet as Alex was kidnapped right after she was born and Ben was obviously not taking care of a baby at the original "gassing". But Alex was born around 1986 so they must've been there... Weird!

So it appears there's a 'hatch' that some people think is a power station, but which actually is a facility that has huge poison gas stores that can kill everyone on the whole island...how Dr. Evil-esque. Ok....

Now...Daniel is allegedly trying to KEEP it from killing everyone, and he's got a countdown to armaggedon style timer problem, all very dramatic.

So the question is... what/who made it go off, so that he needed to frantically fix the death-valve thingie in order to save everyone? Ben? Wouldnt that kill him? Did I miss something?
I'm pretty sure, as others have said, that Daniel had to activate the system to manually override it and make the system safe.

As for Ben, didn't the original gassing of the Dharma crew involve gas canisters, not some vent system?

That's just what I was thinking!! Maybe her ship wrecked after they released it? I want a Rousseau FB!

I was thinking the same thing.

Also, maybe they didn't use the gas from the Tempest station as they did have cans of it.

I thought Ben only used the gas canister on his dad because he was supposed to kill him as part of his test, the way Locke was supposed to. That's why he rolled up the windows in the van - so only his canister would affect him?

And gas canisters wouldn't work outside, would they? A lot of the Dharma people were sitting outside...

Maybe there are valves and release points across the island and Richard's group just set it to go off around Otherville.

We know Kelvin in the Swan and Danielle weren't affected. I presume Mikhail wasn't affected by being a good distance away in the flame etc.

So, is this in fact Cerberus and not Smokey?

It's Ben's failsafe hatch!!!

But then again it seems Dharma built it, why?

It's Ben's failsafe hatch!!!

But then again it seems Dharma built it, why?

if dharma were the ones who built it,then that makes the purge more justifiable.

if somebody brought WMDs to MY island,i'd have no qualms about turning the tables on them

if dharma were the ones who built it,then that makes the purge more justifiable.

if somebody brought WMDs to MY island,i'd have no qualms about turning the tables on them

I thought the purge was the original inhabitants retaliating
against the Dharma people?!

Your statement confused me a little, thats all...
Who is the "somebody" and who is the "them"
in your post?!

I thought the purge was the original inhabitants retaliating
against the Dharma people?!

Your statement confused me a little, thats all...
Who is the "somebody" and who is the "them"
in your post?!


the "somebody" is dharma,and so is the "them"

its not exactly been clear WHY Richard and Ben killed dharma,and up till now it has seemed a little extreme.
seems a little less extreme now,if it was indeed dharma who rigged the whole island with lethal gas in the first place.

My theory is that the Tempest might have been re-purposed or modified from it's original purpose after the original "purge" by Ben and co. Perhaps what Goodwin was setting up when he was burned.
Ben perhaps is predicting that Widmore wants to set up a nice holiday healing spa for the rich & terminally ill. The Tempest has been modified to fumigate these folks from taking over the island. Widmore is taking counter measures by sending a forward crack A-team to ready the island and disable the Tempest and eliminate Ben so he can set up shop and start collecting fat cash from the sick & filthy rich.

the "somebody" is dharma,and so is the "them"

its not exactly been clear WHY Richard and Ben killed dharma,and up till now it has seemed a little extreme.
seems a little less extreme now,if it was indeed dharma who rigged the whole island with lethal gas in the first place.

ok, gotcha now.

But Alex was born around 1986 so they must've been there
She was born in 1988

Soooooo... this station comes out of nowhere and contains the deadly gas and Daniel turns it on in order to turn it off and where was the foreshadowing for all this?

Funny how Daniel knew the system software enough to shut it off or else that was to be one of his jobs while on the Island.

I know that there was one station on the station map that was not marked. I imagine this station was it. Right?

Am I the only one who thought of Shakespeare's play instead of an actual Tempest when it was mentioned? Then again I was in a production of it last year and for a play I was in early tonight and tomorrow night I'm wearing an old costume from it...

I thought of that as well. There are many parallels...check out the synopsis here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tempest)

Soooooo... this station comes out of nowhere and contains the deadly gas and Daniel turns it on in order to turn it off and where was the foreshadowing for all this?

Funny how Daniel knew the system software enough to shut it off or else that was to be one of his jobs while on the Island.

I know that there was one station on the station map that was not marked. I imagine this station was it. Right?

I believe there are 3 hatches on the station map from the Swan. 2 of them are located in the mountainous area (Tempest seems like a good possibility for one) and then a center location, linking all the hatches.

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/blastDoorMap.jpg


I would assume that the Tempest location was fully operational while Dharma was in operation because setting up a island wide self destruct system would be beyond the technological abilities of the remaining Others after the purge.

I doubt if the deadly gas is the only purpose for the Tempest as the facility seemed fairly large, perhaps there actually is a giant hamster on a wheel on the other side of that wall.

Somebody from Dharma must have survived or communicated with the outside world about what Ben had done (unless we've got time travel interfering again!). Otherwise, how would anyone know what he had done, and how to stop him a second time? Also, who could know about Tempest.

I think The Tempest's name is a hint too. A secluded island where a magician rules, a monster roams, and lovers tryst in secret. I think I hear the mermaids singing!

Soooooo... this station comes out of nowhere and contains the deadly gas and Daniel turns it on in order to turn it off and where was the foreshadowing for all this?

Funny how Daniel knew the system software enough to shut it off or else that was to be one of his jobs while on the Island.

I know that there was one station on the station map that was not marked. I imagine this station was it. Right?

Well...it's a "power station" for an island that uses enough electricity to drive an electromagnetic accelerator, a small neighborhood, and a variety of hatches interspersed on at least two islands. Enough foreshadowing for me. As for the gas, I'm sure there's still more to the story of that particular hatch, and as always, we'll find out in due time.

Generally system software is tied in through applications designed to work with a standard operating system. Dharma was operating back in the 70's, which meant they would likely be running on a unix platform. Daniel was a college professor and a physicist. Part of being a physicist requires familiarity with computer programming, enabling one to set up computer models for theoretical observations. It's not at all unusual Daniel would possess the skill to navigate an older computer.

The storyline side of this show is generally quite nailed down if you pay close enough attention and make connections, much moreso than the love quadrangle fiasco that is starting to emerge.

Feeeeel the heeeeeat,
Pushin' you to decide.
Feeeeel the heeeeeat,
Burnin' you up.
Ready or not!

Some like it hot, and some sweat when the heat is on.
Some feel the heat, and decide that they can't go on.

(RIP, Robert Palmer.)

Where indeed!

So where were the Giant Hampsters?


Polar bears.

So is there only one more Dharma station to find?

Juliet described The Tempest as a 'power station'. In addition to making deadly gas, what other 'experiments' may they have been doing there?

Anyone get the screencap for the new logo? It looked like a wave of some sort.

Anyone get the screencap for the new logo? It looked like a wave of some sort.

this is what lostpedia has...
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Tempest.png

Yeah "The Door" does not count as a station. So I guess the old videos saying that there were six stations were referring to the actual experimental stations, which would exclude the Tempest, the Flame and the Staff, unless the staff was used for medical experiments and not just a sick bay.

She was born in 1988

Yes, sorry - I realized my mistake after I posted. At night my eyes get all blurry! I guess what I was trying to get across was when I first saw Ben's flashback when he participated in the gassing, I wasn't thinking that at that point, the Others would have already had Alex but they must have. Also meaning that Danielle must've crashed when Dharma was still operating fully. It was just one of those odd realizations that I came to after reading these posts. Sometimes I'm a little slow on connecting the time frames with all the switching back and forth!

Ok Charlotte and Dan were told to go to the tempest to disable the gas.

1 How did they have such good directions?

2 How was it that Danial the "head case" knew what to expect and had the ability to disarm the program. Just because he's a Professor of one field dosen't make him tops in another. It was him for a reason and I beginning to think that he was on the island before.

Anyone else find a possible connection between this lethal gas and the quarantine signs on the bunkers' doors?


Also, I'm starting to have a very strong feeling that Daniel has been on the island BEFORE. But, perhaps because his memory problems and/or the timejumping side effects, he had forgotten details about his stay on the island....

Anyone else find a possible connection between this lethal gas and the quarantine signs on the bunkers' doors?


Also, I'm starting to have a very strong feeling that Daniel has been on the island BEFORE. But, perhaps because his memory problems and/or the timejumping side effects, he had forgotten details about his stay on the island....


This is a great theory... good brain. The idea that Dan F has been on the island before is def. possible. In 1996 he could have figured out how to "get there" by following Des's lead. This would also make it more lkely Des is his "Constant".


I also like the idea about the quarantine signs, but there could be multiple reasons for that.

Another thing.... let's suppose that there was an automatic system that was gonna release the gas on a certain date. It might have been set by Ben a long time ago. I don't know why exactly. It could have been because he knew that some people were gonna find the island and he just wanted them dead as soon as they stepped on the island. So he was just getting ready. Perhaps that is the reason why he sent his people to the Temple and he wanted to kidnap ALL THE WOMEN. That place might be SAFE. That is the only thing he cares about: INFERTILITY. Now, how on earth could Faraday know that???? I know he doesn't seem old enough, but it might be possible that he had been brought to the island a long time ago because of his field of expertise, but he didn't last long there. He was 'expelled' or something because of his 'problems'....
Also, if there is some kind of a Time Loop going on, it might make even more sense....

Just saying...;)

Was the gas being used to create power for the island?

Am I the only one who thought of Shakespeare's play instead of an actual Tempest when it was mentioned? Then again I was in a production of it last year and for a play I was in early tonight and tomorrow night I'm wearing an old costume from it...

Totally, a ship is wrecked on a seemingly deserted island where a brilliant man is raising an orphaned girl.

Why would Dharma build a station that could have the potential to kill everyone on the island with gas (of all things)?

Right! I was originally thinking that Danielle wouldn't have been there yet as Alex was kidnapped right after she was born and Ben was obviously not taking care of a baby at the original "gassing". But Alex was born around 1986 so they must've been there... Weird!

Could the gas have been used through pipes? I'm thinking it didn't just shoot out of the top of a mountain, but went through pipes down in Otherton and through the Hatch's.

Why does Dharma even have such a station? What purpose would it serve to kill everyone working on the island? That is what gets me. It makes no sense!

I think this proves that Daniel and Charlotte are there as good guys and want to help.

Yeah. I didn't quite get the connection between the Power Station and the lethal gas.....:confused:

Totally, a ship is wrecked on a seemingly deserted island where a brilliant man is raising an orphaned girl.

My husband and I talked about "The Tempest" back when Des spoke to Widmore about having been the technical director at the Royal Shakespeare Company. There's the shipwreck, of course, and the magical island with its resident monster, but with Widmore, Penny and Desmond we also see another version of Prospero and Miranda and Ferdinand---the powerful father who forces the boy to work for him to prove his worthiness for the daughter. We thought at the time it was interesting that it applied to Des's triangle AND Ben/Alex/Karl.

Why does Dharma even have such a station? What purpose would it serve to kill everyone working on the island? That is what gets me. It makes no sense!

I think this proves that Daniel and Charlotte are there as good guys and want to help.

Two theories really
1 Dharma didn't, Ben adapted the power station for dual uses.

2 Dharma had it in case of an accident that could effect the world...sort of a failsafe

Did Daniel really make the gas inert? As far as I can tell, he only reset the system. Furthermore, why were Daniel and Charlotte be so concerned about the gas, since they already had protective equipment for it. The freight team didn't suspect there to be survivors of 815, so saving the losties from lethal gas wouldn't have been on their action plans. If they were making the gas inert for a future freight A-team, then it would make sense, but you would lose out on a powerful option to get rid of the Others.

Personally, I think Daniel unknowingly set the system on standby for future deployment by a freight A-team.

It could be the ultimate deterrant, a la Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned to Stop Worring and Love the Bomb.

not sure I buy it, but it is a good explanation

My husband and I talked about "The Tempest" back when Des spoke to Widmore about having been the technical director at the Royal Shakespeare Company. There's the shipwreck, of course, and the magical island with its resident monster, but with Widmore, Penny and Desmond we also see another version of Prospero and Miranda and Ferdinand---the powerful father who forces the boy to work for him to prove his worthiness for the daughter. We thought at the time it was interesting that it applied to Des's triangle AND Ben/Alex/Karl.
You're right it does, possibly moreso with the Des storyline, if only because his is fleshed out more than Karl's.

Anyone else find a possible connection between this lethal gas and the quarantine signs on the bunkers' doors?


Also, I'm starting to have a very strong feeling that Daniel has been on the island BEFORE. But, perhaps because his memory problems and/or the timejumping side effects, he had forgotten details about his stay on the island....
It could definitely explain Charlotte and Daniel doing the memory test with the cards. Perhaps she wants him to remember his time on the island working with The Tempest, and he finally remembers the manual override code just before the countdown goes off.

I like Fierro's idea that Dan was already on the island. Desmond being his Constant... that could be the connection. It was certainly interesting in last week's episode when Des mentinoed the island and Dan says "an island..." sort of quizzically, but also like that might somewhere, somehow mean something to him....

Could it be possible the Dahrma had harnessed a naturally occuring gas that was potentially toxic much like they had harnessed or controlled to some degree the magnetic properites of the island? Could this gas possibly have anything to do with the volcano we know exists on the island? Go back to when Ben and Annie were in school and the teacher was discussing volcanos. When the earth shook the day the plane crashed it seems the Others were not super surprised that the ground shook and were doing general earthquake style, stand in the doorway, until it stopped. Only after the shaking stopped did they see the plane crashing. So the earth shaking didn't seem all that unusual for them. If it was volcano gas of some type that may have been mentioned in the journal from the Black Rock and might explain what happened to those people. Hanso would have read the journal and learned how to capture that gas. So how much island information is contained in that journal?

My question is why aren't these key hatches being protected by Ben? The only manned station he seemed to have was the Looking Glass. I would think if the Temptest powered the entire island and has such a potential to release some deadly gas, that there would be personel there to protect it.

So, is this in fact Cerberus and not Smokey?

Good point - we've seen the blast door map and the 'Cerberus Vents' which we have been told are a defence system - and we've tied that in with Smokey being that system - but what if the 'defence system' was as simple as a bunch of vents to allow sensitive areas of the Island to be flooded with nerve gas in the event of a hostile takeover?

Maybe Smokey just uses the vents as a handy way to move around the Island itself?

Good point - we've seen the blast door map and the 'Cerberus Vents' which we have been told are a defence system - and we've tied that in with Smokey being that system - but what if the 'defence system' was as simple as a bunch of vents to allow sensitive areas of the Island to be flooded with nerve gas in the event of a hostile takeover?

Maybe Smokey just uses the vents as a handy way to move around the Island itself?
hmmm. I think you are onto something there...

So Cerberus was a back up plan designed in case the hostiles took over or maybe just to wipe them all out? I remember reading about Cerberus 'malfunction' on the BDM.... Was this why the put quarantine signs on the doors? Was this gas released by accident? Furthermore, is this related to the infamous 'incident'?

Why then chose the name of Cerberus? Because it is cool? Or has it a deeper meaning? It is a mixture of 3 different gases that come from the underground?


Interesting point about Cerberus and Smokie NOT being the same thing..... It certainly makes me wonder...

What the hell is Smokie????????:confused:


Also, what about all the mechanical sounds we hear when our friend appears???????? Could they be related to the underground system designed to release the gas through those C.V? I mean sometimes we hear that particular noise that sounds like some kind of pressure valve being opened or something. The rollercoaster sound could come from some kind of gates being lift up to let the gas flow?


So, big question here: Is Smokie somehow related to this 'gas'??????

I know it sounds crazy, but Smokie does look like a gas....and the way it moves...

What I'm wondering is, if this is the same gas the Others used, and it goes all over the Island:

Who turned it on? Ben was in the van with his father.

But the bigger question is, what kind of gas kills only people?? Obviously, it didn't affect the polar bears, boars, cows, chickens, and other wildlife on the Island.

So does this mean it was not the same method the Others used or that it was designed, somehow, only for people??
Or that it was...
Fake?

Somebody from Dharma must have survived or communicated with the outside world about what Ben had done (unless we've got time travel interfering again!). Otherwise, how would anyone know what he had done, and how to stop him a second time? Also, who could know about Tempest.

Remember that there are all kinds of things on the island with "Widmore Industries" stamped on them. Perhaps Widmore was contracted to build the Tempest, and supplied Daniel with detailed plans.

What I'm wondering is, if this is the same gas the Others used, and it goes all over the Island:

Who turned it on? Ben was in the van with his father.

But the bigger question is, what kind of gas kills only people?? Obviously, it didn't affect the polar bears, boars, cows, chickens, and other wildlife on the Island.

So does this mean it was not the same method the Others used or that it was designed, somehow, only for people??
I think if they released all the gas, it would probably kill all the animal life. They just used gas grenades to kill the DHARMA people. Poison gas, like all good things, are best enjoyed in moderation.

Yeah. I didn't quite get the connection between the Power Station and the lethal gas.....:confused:
Perhaps the lethal gas is the source of power, and the Tempest is just intended to be a power station. However, if left unattended for long enough, the pressure could build up leading to release of the gas. Ben may have disabled the safety interlocks so that even if the Others lose the island to Widmore, Widmore and his people will be killed.

Meanwhile, Richard and the remaining Others are safe in the Temple, protecting the island's secrets.
100%


What the hell is Smokie????????:confused:


And where the hell is he? He clearly is <correction> not </correction> under Ben's control, otherwise Ben would have used him to kill the Freighties.

Also, what about all the mechanical sounds we hear when our friend appears???????? Could they be related to the underground system designed to release the gas through those C.V? I mean sometimes we hear that particular noise that sounds like some kind of pressure valve being opened or something. The rollercoaster sound could come from some kind of gates being lift up to let the gas flow?


Awesome! I think you're on to something.

Ok. What if, Ben and the hostiles, amongst which there were more Dharma scientists that turned to Ben's side for the Purge, kept pretending that everything was fine? What if they lied to the outside headquarters by saying that the Cerberus System malfunctioned and that is what caused several casualties? The BDM says something about that too.

I still want to know when did they put those quarantine signs on the bunker doors.... Was it post purge or pre purge?

If it is post purge, it wouldn't make much sense UNLESS Ben and the hostiles wanted some of the hatch monkeys to stay inside their bunkers and not disturb their operations.
Kelvin might have been on Ben's side, while Radzinski found out what had really happened (not a Cerberus gas malfunction, but a PURGE) , and that is why he had to kill him.


I really like the idea of the Cerberus Defense System to be something that Dharma built underground to be able to release this 'gas' whenever they needed to kill every living person on the island, and not just the hostiles...perhaps?
It would be a way to start the whole DHARMA project from scratch....if something went wrong...

So imagine this:

There is a whole underground infrastructure beneath the Losties' feet, full of pipes, valves, gates, gas tanks, etc. And with one flip of a switch, everybody on the surface could end up dead in a few seconds. Isn't that some scary thing???????

Like it is being suggested already, C.V. are the vents through which this gas escapes...

It also seems that some of this vents might have been sealed off.

Also, could it be possible that the system was designed also to potentially get inside the bunkers, too????? In this case, are the Blast doors a way to protect people inside the hatches from the Cerberus System?

I think both Juliette and Ben both say they don't know what "smokey is" They block it out of otherville. The vents are probably for the gas.

I think both Juliette and Ben both say they don't know what "smokey is" They block it out of otherville. The vents are probably for the gas.

Yes. CV=Cerberus Vents. Cerberus is the system that deploys the gas all over the island. Smokie uses the pipes and vents to move around the island. The mechanical sounds we hear associated to the Black Smoke are part of this underground structure that allows the gas to flow, like pipes, gates and pressure valves.

Now the question is: How does Smokie do to manipulate all that?
100%
I just had another idea, inspired by a tidbit from Lost: Via Domus. The Videogame

It is revealed that behind the concrete walls inside the Swan, there is a REACTOR.

What if the gas we are dealing with here is not, let say... a chemical weapon?
What if it is something that works in together with something else, like

this reactor. It could be some kind of gas that Dharma created to be used in the reactor as a coolant or something else totally different. Out of control could be as dangerous as a lethal gas used in chemical weapons....http://www.virtualnucleartourist.com/type/gcr.htm

I was just thinking; "How could the gas reach the entire island?"

Maybe it doesn't? (Here goes my wild hunch).

What if the volcano acts as a way of dispersing the gas? Ash can be spread for miles, why not gas in the same way? I don't know where the volcano is, but maybe it was close enough to the Barracks yet far enough away from wherever Rousseau was located at the time?

the gas is dispersed around the island, probably, through the Cerberus Vents or CV.

I thought Cerberus was the smoke monster?
Did we get the names mixed up somehow?
..Why would the initiative have gas vents in the stations?


:) Sorry for all the questions.

the gas is dispersed around the island, probably, through the Cerberus Vents or CV.

I'll buy it. I think the island has multiple layers of defense and filling the island with toxic gas is the last one. They probably wait it out down in the Looking Glass, at least the key people. That seems to be the only safe refuge.

I don't think the original function of the Tempest was for toxic gas or a power station because of the name and cresting wave icon that doesn't relate to either. The Swan, Flame and Looking Glass logos are a mystery too.

I thought Cerberus was the smoke monster?
Did we get the names mixed up somehow?
..Why would the initiative have gas vents in the stations?


:) Sorry for all the questions.

I know. We are playing with that new idea now. We know Cerberus is the Island Defense System. And it has malfunctioned before. After all, when Danielle called it that, she just had heard the mechanical sounds. They didn't see the black cloud on that particular moment....;)

Do i have to say it again? I love the idea of Cerberus being some kind of gas-releasing protocol in case something went wrong on the island....

(Spider protocol, anyone?;))

The vents appear on the BDM. They are called CV. Cerberus Vents. These are also speculated to be the holes through which Smokie pops up on the surface. Probably that hole it wanted to drag Locke into.... also.....
100%
I'll buy it. I think the island has multiple layers of defense and filling the island with toxic gas is the last one. They probably wait it out down in the Looking Glass, at least the key people. That seems to be the only safe refuge.

I don't think the original function of the Tempest was for toxic gas or a power station because of the name and cresting wave icon that doesn't relate to either. The Swan, Flame and Looking Glass logos are a mystery too.

I'll buy it is a power station. It might be a stupid question but WHERE does the elecrtricity come from on our magical island???? I don't buy the 2 giant hamsters explanation tjhat Ben gave to Locke, do you????;)

So there's gotta be something else. Which brings me to something that, despite it is not CANON, it makes a lot of sense...

And, since it is not cannon according to TPTB, I think there shouldn't be any problems not using spoiler tags. Just keep in mind, that this is a spoiler for people PLAYING the VIA DOMUS videogame!!!

But I am gonna spoiler tag anyways:frown:. I just like some mod here saying if it is OK to talk about the game without using tags. PLEASE.....:)

According to Lost Via Domus, behind the Swan Concrete walls, there is a Reactor.

Now I have developed short theory tying some loose ends:

What we might be talking about here is a Gasseous Fission Reactor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaseous_fission_reactor)

A limitation for conventional nuclear fission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission) reactors is that if the nuclear fuel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel) temperature were to rise too high in temperature, the Nuclear reactor core (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reactor_core) would melt. However, if the reactor core were gaseous, the only temperature limiting materials would be the reactor walls. It may also be possible to confine gaseous fission fuel magnetically in the reactor so that it would not touch (and melt) the reactor walls. A potential benefit of the gaseous reactor core concept is that instead of relying on the traditional rankine or brayton conversion cycles, it may be possible to extract electricity magnetohydrodynamically, or with direct conversion of the charged particles.So the gas we are talking about might not be really some kind of chemical weapon, but more like a fuel gas used for the Island's reactor. Of course, this might be just as toxic as any lethal gas if used in an inapropiate way.

According to the game, this reactor is NOT in a very good shape. Probably because of the Incident, after which it was necessary to implemenet the button-protocol to keep the electroamgnetism levels secured, after the leak mentioned by Kelvin....

Now it could be possible that they had to build a SECOND reactor to replace the old one. Now, this new one might be associated or housed near the TEMPEST. After all this is THE power station. Right?
That might explain why there are toxic gases being controlled from a Power Station!!!!!!

Now, Smokie might be using the old set of underground pipes and stuff to move about the island.

More interesting stuff about these reactors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_core_reactor_rocket

The disadvantage of the open cycle is that the fuel can escape with the working fluid through the nozzle before it reaches significant burn-up levels. Thus, finding a way to limit the loss of fuel is required for open-cycle designs. Unless an outside force is relied upon (i.e. magnetic forces, rocket acceleration), the only way to limit fuel-propellant mixing, is through flow hydrodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrodynamics). Another problem is that the radioactive efflux from the nozzle makes the design totally unsuitable for operation within Earth's atmosphere.
The advantage of the open cycle design is that it can attain much higher operating temperatures than the closed cycle design, and does not require the exotic materials needed for a suitable closed cycle design.
Magnetic confinement

Barring an external force, hydrodynamic containment is the only way to increase the residence time of the fuel in the reactor. However, one may ask why bar an outside force, could not magnetic confinement be used since the fuel would be highly ionized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionized) (three or four times ionized) while the propellant is only partially ionized? To answer this question one must understand a little about magnetic plasma confinement. The key parameter of interest for magnetic confinement is the ratio of kinetic pressure (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kinetic_pressure&action=edit&redlink=1) to magnetic pressure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_pressure), β.
When β<1 magnetic confinement is possible (most fusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion) schemes have a β close to 0.05). However, the pressures in a gas core rocket are much higher than pressures in fusion devices, approximately 1000 atm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_%28unit%29) (100 MPa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megapascal)). For these pressures, the necessary magnetic field strength required is close to 16 teslas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla) just to produce β=1. For a magnetic field of this magnitude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitude_%28mathematics%29), superconducting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting) technology is necessary and the added mass of such a system would be detrimental. Also, even with a β<1, resistive diffusion will cause the fuel core to collapse almost immediately unless β<<1, which would require an even larger magnetic field.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokamak


Now, how about this:

During the incident, there was some kind malfunction or miscommunication between the Swan's original purpose and the Reactor next to it. The result was a leak of the reactor fuel gas. This gas, radioactive of course, was or had to be vented out thorugh the Cerberus Vents. Result? Well, you know!!!! The island needed to be put under QUARANTINE for a while.

I think there is more to the gas. It was too open and shut. It has another use I'm sure there is more to the story, there always is...

So where were the Giant Hampsters?

Best post ever.

I would also like to know.

Anyway, i think Dan rigged the system so it can now be only used by the freighties.

Do you people actually watch the show? This entire thread is filled with theories based of the facts you got wrong in the first place.

The gas is NOT "spread"across the entire island, during the purge they used gas canisters to distribute the gas. This is why not everything on the island dies as you point out.

The map the Dan and Charlette have could have been in the Black Rock journal that Penny's dad bought at auction and then sent the frieghties there with the info.

WATCH THE SHOW and if you missed something WATCH IT AGAIN!!

Do you people actually watch the show? This entire thread is filled with theories based of the facts you got wrong in the first place.

The gas is NOT "spread"across the entire island, during the purge they used gas canisters to distribute the gas. This is why not everything on the island dies as you point out.

The map the Dan and Charlette have could have been in the Black Rock journal that Penny's dad bought at auction and then sent the frieghties there with the info.

WATCH THE SHOW and if you missed something WATCH IT AGAIN!!

Stretch I think the map had a helipad mentioned on it so it would have to been update by someone.

Stretch I think the map had a helipad mentioned on it so it would have to been update by someone.


Huh? What does this mean? Did I mention a helipad? update what? what are you talking about?

Huh? What does this mean? Did I mention a helipad? update what? what are you talking about?

Sorry Stretch I thought you were talking about the map that Dan and Charlotte used to get to the Tempest. My error.

Sorry Stretch I thought you were talking about the map that Dan and Charlotte used to get to the Tempest. My error.


My bad .......and I did not realize you were talking about the helipad on THAT map :redface:

I did not see that map very well. Guess I need to watch it again. Any screen caps on the map Faraday and Charlette have?

Do you people actually watch the show? This entire thread is filled with theories based of the facts you got wrong in the first place.

The gas is NOT "spread"across the entire island, during the purge they used gas canisters to distribute the gas. This is why not everything on the island dies as you point out.

The map the Dan and Charlette have could have been in the Black Rock journal that Penny's dad bought at auction and then sent the frieghties there with the info.

WATCH THE SHOW and if you missed something WATCH IT AGAIN!!

The gas they used during the Purge may have not been spread across the island through vents. But we still don't know HOW this gas was gonna be leaked or spread across the island on this particular occasion. Whatever they were doing with that gas, I think using canisters were not on anyone's plans (be it Ben's or The Freighter's).

The theory that Dharma may have rigged the whole island with a special gas to get rid of the hostiles or whatever can still be valid. The fact that the HOSTILES didn't use this system doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They just didn't have access to it at that moment (prior to the Purge).

Also, I might not be recalling things very well, but did we actually see the hostiles using gas canisters or we just saw Ben using that to kill his father?

As far as for the map... If it was indeed inside the Black Rock Journal, the map should have been put there after Dharma was up and working because there are references to the stations, which, of course, didn't exist in 1881.
I still think that is a possibility, but then I think about the fact that they said that NO ONE had ever seen the contents of this book. To me it sounded like nobody could have put something there because this had been kept a secret and unopen for centuries....

I don't know what facts you think people got wrong Stretch. I just re-watched the purge. We don't see any cannisters besides the one Ben uses. There are none shown laying around the barracks. I suspect Ben used a cannister for two reasons.

1) as someone else mentioned, he had to kill his father himself as part of some test

B) they had driven up to the "Mesa" to drink a few beers. Presumably the higher elevation might not have been as susceptible to the gas.

Here is some additional information that I found. TEMPEST stands for Transient Electromagnetic Pulse Surveillance Technology (http://www.fas.org/irp/program/security/tempest.htm) which is a type of monitoring equipment. I don't know how this ties in to an "electrical stations", which also has a large inventory of poison gas.

Was the gas being used to create power for the island?


Yes. Don't know why it took so long for peeps to realize this. Goodwin worked there and he pushed buttons to make the gas react and create power (there is such a thing as a chemical power station) but pushing the wrong button and he gases the whole island. It's purpose isn't to gas the island, just a side effect, like if they had a nuclear power station a meltdown would be bad. Also the island is a volcano, the gas coming from underground is good stuff.

FYI, there is a new audio podcast up on abc.com in which Darlton explain what the purpose of the Tempest was and which map it was on.

So now there's the Tempest which looks like a pretty big building right next to the coast. This, along with all the other buildings we are now seeing. Yet in season 1 they didn't spot one!

So now there's the Tempest which looks like a pretty big building right next to the coast. This, along with all the other buildings we are now seeing. Yet in season 1 they didn't spot one!
All what buildings we are now seeing? Are you saying you thought that in season 1 they had found all the buildings on the island? Or explored the entire coastline???
100%
Was the gas being used to create power for the island?
No, the "power station" is just a cover for its real purpose, which is chemical weapons plant. Everything inside the station suggested only a chemical plant, not a power generation or distribution station.

Ben and Richard definitely used the gas in The Tempest to conduct the purge. Does make you wonder why Ben needed the canister with his dad, though, huh?

I think TPTB answered this..that they wanted to show that Ben's killing of his dad was personal.

Yes. Don't know why it took so long for peeps to realize this. Goodwin worked there and he pushed buttons to make the gas react and create power (there is such a thing as a chemical power station) but pushing the wrong button and he gases the whole island. It's purpose isn't to gas the island, just a side effect, like if they had a nuclear power station a meltdown would be bad. Also the island is a volcano, the gas coming from underground is good stuff.

I have been suggesting this for quite a while now!!! It could have been nuclear fuel or a coolant.

Also, according to Via Domus videogame (and I KNOW it is not cannon)

What's behind the concrete walls is a REACTOR.

You guys make my brain hurt.

I thought it was obvious but slowness is one of my better traits:

The Tempest was originally designed as an electrical power station. At some point it was modified to a death station, (because of its conduits to all living stations on the island) but still kept its character as a power station. This was a secret modification by...Ben against the hostiles very early on...or by Ben, after the purge, when it was realized that off island threats were happening.

The Tempest can push power or gas to all other stations and habitations. At the tempest one can control where the power/gas goes by underground vent/conduits. You can send power/gas where it is needed. Before the modification you can send power to one station and not to another. After the modification you can send death/gas to one station and not another.

I really have a problem with smoke monster being associated with this....but I've always had a problem with him. I'm just so confused on him/her. So I won't make any comment about it.

Daniel, by trying to invade the system (it protects itself, if you mess with it it starts the death sequence (giving you time to disable it if a mistake occurs, rather than killing everone with the push of a wrong key)) sets it off. He has to right it under a time constraint (I hate this tremendously over used TV devise of a freaking count down machine...but we've had it before. And I remember it from the Wild Wild West in the 60's and probly they didn't create it.)

Daniel is causing it inert for his boss, who he really doesn't know (Widmore) because he's been convinced by Abbadon/Naomi's lies about their goals. Widmore wants to exploit/find/revenge on the island. Ben wants to isolate/exploit in secret the island.

The causing of the inertness of the gas pleases Kate/Jack/Juliet because who wouldn't want the gas contained. The continued living of KJJ and survivors is paramount, but in contradiction of Ben's belief that if the island is revealed then just kill the island and all else.

That's the contradiction. The death of the island may be good (to Ben). But no one on the island can think this because it means their death too.

So now there's the Tempest which looks like a pretty big building right next to the coast. This, along with all the other buildings we are now seeing. Yet in season 1 they didn't spot one!

In S1 John wanders all around the island but fails to find anything but the hatch.

Afterwards we have had Dharma stations popping out like mushrooms in the rain.

Seems a bit odd he didn't found anything else during these travels. Next season they are going to find a giant hampster home.

You guys make my brain hurt.

I thought it was obvious but slowness is one of my better traits:

The Tempest was originally designed as an electrical power station. At some point it was modified to a death station, (because of its conduits to all living stations on the island) but still kept its character as a power station. This was a secret modification by...Ben against the hostiles very early on...or by Ben, after the purge, when it was realized that off island threats were happening.


D'oh! Why didn't I see it sooner? The 'ole "Modify the power station so that it becomes a nerve gas spewing death factory" switcheroo!

I can't believe I missed such a commonly used trick, thanks for working it out :rolleyes:

In the latest podcast, TPTB imply that it was a nerve gas manufacturing facility - posing the question 'Were DHARMA's motives really so humanitarian?'

Seems a bit odd he didn't found anything else during these travels. Next season they are going to find a giant hampster home.

I can see it now! A giant habitrail with a giant ferris wheel "Welcome to LOSTLAND" perhaps it's the ferris wheel Minkowski kept slipping back to.;)

No I agree, even Sayid made a partial trip and came across nothing but the cable running in to the water with Danielle at the other end. The stations, hatches and village seemed to have been well hidden. Very strange.

Best post ever.

I would also like to know.

Anyway, i think Dan rigged the system so it can now be only used by the freighties.

That's a interesting thought. There was something wrong about Dan and Charlotte's reactions throughout the show. I got the feeling they were up to something else.

In S1 John wanders all around the island but fails to find anything but the hatch.
I think they've said before that the island is about the size of Oahu (where of course it is filmed). So, it would take a LOT of walking to see everything. Juliet and Jack walked all night and into the next day to get from the beach to the Tempest, and in a specific direction. I think it would be easy enough to miss, despite it's size.

Great thread - I am finally catching up on it. I am intrigued by the possibility that Cerberus and Smokey are not the same thing. That would certainly be an excellent bait and switch to pull on us.

As for the vents, I think many have thought for a lot time that the "incident" had to do with EM or perhaps Cerberus/Smokey gone wild. Now we definitely have to consider the possibility that it was actually a leak of the poison gas. The incident took place in the 1970s ("not long after the experiments began" according to the Orientation video) and the purge was much later. I don't think we know what year the purge was, but Lostpedia guesses 1987. So, did the hostiles learn of the potential usage of the gas during the accidental incident, and then use it intentionally during the purge?