It seems so strange to even call them The Others anymore, but regardless, Goodwin reported that Ana Lucia might be "good for their people". Did Ben's crew need a cop in Othersville?

Who else may they have looked at recruiting. I guess if they needed a dentist, Bernard would have been the one. Imagine if Ben had an absessed tooth rather than needing a spinal operation . . .

I'm not sure that Goodwin was actually making a case for Ana Lucia. I think Ben made that up just to see Juliette's reaction.

Who else may they have looked at recruiting.

Eko could've been their priest. :biggrin: He had to of been on the list since they attempted to take him. Sayid is experienced with communications, but I didn't see any evidence that he was on any list.

I'm not sure that Goodwin was actually making a case for Ana Lucia. I think Ben made that up just to see Juliette's reaction.

True - absolutely. However, were they really recruiting members? I actually believed that part, even if Ben were using the interest in Ana Lucia as a tool to make Juliet jealous.

I'm not sure that Goodwin was actually making a case for Ana Lucia. I think Ben made that up just to see Juliette's reaction.
I think we have evidence from some other episode that Goodwin did try to make a case for her. I'm sorry, I can't remember now. Maybe it was right before she killed him?

You know, South Shore, I thought you were going somewhere totally different with this thread. I thought you might be suggesting that Ben somehow got word to Ana Lucia that Goodwin wasn't one of them, and goaded her into killing him. And then Ana had to be taken care of later as a cover up. How's that for a conspiracy theory? :biggrin:

I think we have evidence from some other episode that Goodwin did try to make a case for her. I'm sorry, I can't remember now. Maybe it was right before she killed him?

You know, South Shore, I thought you were going somewhere totally different with this thread. I thought you might be suggesting that Ben somehow got word to Ana Lucia that Goodwin wasn't one of them, and goaded her into killing him. And then Ana had to be taken care of later as a cover up. How's that for a conspiracy theory? :biggrin:

Ooh, I like your conspiracy theory! It likely wouldn't have taken much for A.L. to kill Goodwin anyway.

I do remember Goodwyn saying that he tried to make a case for Ana but it would have had to have been during his stand-off and eventual fight with Ana, and I just checked the transcripts, and he didn't say that.

If he didn't say it and we're just remembering incorrectly, then I believe Ben was only saying it to be horrible to Juliet.

GOODWIN: Nah, you should stay here, Ana -- get this place set up as a shelter.
ANA: We can all get it set up. We can make it back in a couple of hours, let's go.
[Ana and Goodwin hiking to higher ground.]
ANA: Why do you think they're doing this?
GOODWIN: Why do I think who's doing what?
ANA: Them. Don't you ever wonder why they attack us?
GOODWIN: Maybe they're not attacking us.
ANA: Yeah, they just drag us into the jungle every now and then -- no real harm done.
GOODWIN: Good point.
ANA: Why do you think they take some of us and not the others?
GOODWIN: That first night they took the strongest of us -- our quiet friend -- three other guys. They're all athletic, tough, threats.
ANA: They didn't take you.
GOODWIN: Guess they changed their plan after two of them got killed. Want to take a break?
ANA: Yeah, that's a good idea.
GOODWIN: Can I have the knife?
[He takes out a mango and Ana hands him the knife. He gives Ana a piece of mango.]
ANA: Thank you. Where do you think they got it? I mean, they don't even wear shoes. How'd they get an army knife?
GOODWIN: Sorry?
ANA: The knife -- it's U.S. military. Here [she reaches for the knife] I'll show you. You see the tang stamp? [We see a U.S. Army stamp] This knife's probably 20 years old. You don't see these anymore, yet here it is, on this island. Weird, huh? Can I ask you something?
GOODWIN: Sure, Ana.
ANA: When you ran out of the jungle the day of the crash -- how did you find Bernard up in the tree?
GOODWIN: I heard him shouting from the beach.
ANA: From the beach?
GOODWIN: Why are you asking me about that, Ana?
ANA: Did he see you out there? Is that why you pretended to be one of us? You ran out of the jungle 10 minutes after the crash, you weren't wet. You were never even in the ocean. Where are they -- your friends? Nathan -- what did you...
GOODWIN: If you had cut off his finger and he still told you he was on the plane, I think maybe you would have started to believe you had the wrong guy.
ANA: Did you kill him?
GOODWIN: Nathan was not a good person. That's why he wasn't on the list.
ANA: What about the kids? Did you kill them, too?
GOODWIN: Children are fine. They're better off now.
[Ana and Goodwin struggle. They fall down a hill and Ana impales him as he falls. Ana heads back to camp.]
CINDY: Where's Goodwin?
ANA: We're safe here now.

I think we have evidence from some other episode that Goodwin did try to make a case for her. I'm sorry, I can't remember now. Maybe it was right before she killed him?

You know, South Shore, I thought you were going somewhere totally different with this thread. I thought you might be suggesting that Ben somehow got word to Ana Lucia that Goodwin wasn't one of them, and goaded her into killing him. And then Ana had to be taken care of later as a cover up. How's that for a conspiracy theory? :biggrin:

Oh, I love that theory, and I wouldn't put it past Ben for a second. He's certainly capable of doing it.

I do remember Goodwyn saying that he tried to make a case for Ana but it would have had to have been during his stand-off and eventual fight with Ana, and I just checked the transcripts, and he didn't say that.

If he didn't say it and we're just remembering incorrectly, then I believe Ben was only saying it to be horrible to Juliet.


It was actually Ben telling Ana that Goodwin made a case for her before he strangled her.

It was actually Ben telling Ana that Goodwin made a case for her before he strangled her.

From "Two For the Road" back in Season Two:

BEN: He kept saying you were misunderstood.
ANA: What are you talking about?
BEN: Goodwin. Yes, he told us all about you, Ana -- how he thought you were worthy, and that he could change you. But he was wrong. And it cost him his life.
ANA: He was going to kill me.
BEN: Was he?
ANA: Are you done?

I'm interested in knowing the next steps in the recruiting process! What kinds of things would they have done to A.L. to convince her to join up with 'The Others'?

That's a big thing I loved from tonight's episode. I love when they tie things together like that. To refer back to when Ben said that Goodwin had tried to make a case for Ana-Lucia-- awesome!

I'm not sure that Goodwin was actually making a case for Ana Lucia. I think Ben made that up just to see Juliette's reaction.

I don't think because Ben already said something like that to Anna lucia when he was hold prisoner in the swan station, so i really think it's true.

you know, i flip-flopped
during that moment, wondering if somehow ben had sent ana-lucia as a spy to kill goodwin or something to that extent, cause I was like, "how in the world would ben know that sending goodwin to the tail section would get him killed?"

well, if they have extensive files on people, chances are, AL's tendency toward men she doesn't trust (which is more often than not) makes for great odds that Goodwin wouldn't be coming back.

and if ben didn't intend for anything fatal to happen to Goodwin, sending him off to the tailies would certainly have kept him occupied for a long enough period of time for Ben to make his move on Juliet (or so he thought).

JMO.

It was actually Ben telling Ana that Goodwin made a case for her before he strangled her.

From "Two For the Road" back in Season Two:

BEN: He kept saying you were misunderstood.
ANA: What are you talking about?
BEN: Goodwin. Yes, he told us all about you, Ana -- how he thought you were worthy, and that he could change you. But he was wrong. And it cost him his life.
ANA: He was going to kill me.
BEN: Was he?
ANA: Are you done?

Ah... thanks, guys! Yeah, so in that case, since he said it twice, and no reason to lie to both of them about the same thing, then I think it was probably true. Although I don't see AL fitting in at all with the Others. I mean, seriously? Taking orders from Ben and Jacob who no one can see??? Um, yeah, not so much. lol.

I don't know if I actually agree with this, but if the Others were actually "recruiting" people that could be useful to them why wasn't Jack on the list? Ben learned pretty early on that he was a spinal surgeon, and obviously he needed Jack's help.

I don't think because Ben already said something like that to Anna lucia when he was hold prisoner in the swan station, so i really think it's true.


Like Ben is known for telling the truth???

I think Ben was lying about AL.
He probably thought Goodwin would be so busy with this task he'd be away from Juliet so he could focus on her, as said above.

I just don't see where Ben could've gotten to AL. I didn't like her, but I just don't see it.

This is why Michael is Captain of the freighter.

AL being shot was planned by Ben -- Libby being shot was explained that was ok to Michael because she had an hidden agenda to do with Hurley.

wasn't ana lucia recruited by christian shephard???

wasn't ana lucia recruited by christian shephard???

I don't know if I'd call it 'recruited', but Christian did find a very vulnerable, 'messed up' A.L., and found drunk buddy to head to Australia with.

It's interesting about Ana Lucia . . . people really tend to hate her, and I've read that folks feel that she would be the last to be 'recruited'. I always liked her, found her with her own set of tragic circumstances that our other 815'ers had, and therefore was vulnerable too. I think if A.L. would have survived, she would be on Team Locke - working with the island rather than against it.

wasn't ana lucia recruited by christian shephard???

oooh that's a good point!;)

wasn't ana lucia recruited by christian shephard???


He is why she was in sydney.

He is why she was in sydney.

He IS why she was in Sydney, but would you call it 'recruited'?

This thread has some interesting points. I like the idea that Ben somehow got the message/tip to AL that Goodwin is one of the Others, to ensure that Goodwin would get killed. It keeps getting clearer, how Ben would do anything and can do anything to have things done exactly like he wants them.

And I think this episode confirms that Ben can send a message to someone, even if he's locked up somewhere, one way or the other. Which would also explain why he wanted to strangle AL, and why Michael ended up killing her.
After watching this epi, I'm convinced that the terms the Others gave to Michael, came directly from Ben, even though he was tied up in the hatch. Wasn't Ben talking to "himself" while being locked up in there, at some point? And weren't there whispers in some scenes while Ben was in there? The whispers must have something to do with Ben's ability to "get messages through", since we also heard them right before/after Harper appeared to Juliet.

Also, to comment on another post (sorry, can't remember who it was):
Just because Ben told 2 different people the same thing, doesn't make it the truth. He told Juliet that Goodwin was making a case on AL and he told AL the same thing. Does that make it true? I'm not saying that it was definately a lie, I'm just saying that Ben telling the same thing twice is no proof that it's the truth.