Wasn't Goodwin killed before Ethan?

Thats what I was thinking. How gross was it to see his corpse? No proper funeral for him...

Thats what I was thinking. How gross was it to see his corpse? No proper funeral for him...

Any timeline junkies willing to concur? I'm curious myself. It was odd that only Pickett (that we know of, anyway) got a proper funeral. I think they just wanted to show their procedures for a funeral and making Jack feel he's one of them by inviting him along. I think it would be tedious if we had to witness a funeral for all the Others that died.

Thats what I was thinking. How gross was it to see his corpse? No proper funeral for him...


Just one more clue that Ben's a sick twist.


On the which other bought it first front -- I think most timelines point to Ana spearing Goodwin before Charlie shot Ethan.

i would like to say that goodwin was killed first but one would really have to go back to the previous seasons or lospedia to find out

Maybe time moves slower on the tailies side of the island.

We also don't know how long Goodwin's body had been lying there when Ben showed it to Juliet. I doubt it was right after it happened. And for all we know, Ben could've moved the body or put it somewhere for a while (he is kinda strange)! I kind of got the feeling that he might have already known Goodwin was dead when he had dinner with Juliet.

Looking at Lostpedia I've determined that Ethan was killed on day 29 and Goodwain "shortly after" day 27. I don't know exactly when for Goodwin.

Lostpedia says Goodwin was killed on day 27 and Ethan was killed on day 29. Umm.... ? To reach for an explanation (other than Lostpedia being wrong, which is clearly an option since it is a fan wiki)... maybe Ben delayed in telling Juliet Goodwin was dead? :confused:
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Goldfoot, what do you mean by "shortly after" day 27?

According to Lostpedia Goodwin was killed on day27 in "The Other 48 days" and Ethan on day 29 in "Homecoming"

Lostpedia says Goodwin was killed on day 27 and Ethan was killed on day 29. Umm.... ? To reach for an explanation (other than Lostpedia being wrong, which is clearly an option since it is a fan wiki)... maybe Ben delayed in telling Juliet Goodwin was dead? :confused:

What's the problem? This episode did not mention when Goodwin died, just when Tom and Pickett found the body. Noticed how discolored he was? They found the body after he had been dead for a while.

Ethan is killed on Day 29 (Homecoming)
Goodwin is killed on Day 27 (The Other 48 Days)

Some thoughts....
Juliet wasn't talking about Ethan's death, but rather about him being exposed by Hurley, which forced him to kidnap Claire. That happened on day 16. Juliet mentioned that Goodwin had been undercover for three weeks, making it Day 21ish. Claire was still in the Others' care at the time. Ben could have recalled Goodwin. After all, Nathan still had two days before Goodwin killed him.

Goodwin disappears with the Tailies on Day 24.

So Ben sends Tom out to find him, and they find the body on Day 28, tell Ben and then he shows Juliet the corpse. When they get home, they discover Ethan is dead.

Lostpedia says Goodwin was killed on day 27 and Ethan was killed on day 29. Umm.... ? To reach for an explanation (other than Lostpedia being wrong, which is clearly an option since it is a fan wiki)... maybe Ben delayed in telling Juliet Goodwin was dead? :confused:

I guess it's possible Ben knew Goodwin was already dead, when Juliette mentioned losing Ethan during Ben's little dinner party. . .hmm. . .in Ben world it's actually more than a possibility.
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What's the problem? This episode did not mention when Goodwin died, just when Tom and Pickett found the body. Noticed how discolored he was? They found the body after he had been dead for a while.


This episode didn't, but The Other 48 Days showed us that Goodwin was killed around Day 27. During the dinner party with Ben, when Juliet is asking Ben to bring Goodwin back from his assignment, she says that "after losing Ethan it's a risk." Ben also says something along the lines of Goodwin only having been gone 3 weeks. Of course, we do know that Ben's a liar. And island time is, well, peculiar.

Maybe time moves slower on the tailies side of the island.:biglaugh:

TBH I don't think Ben told her right away. Being the sick puppy he is he probably wanted some decomp etc to set in first :(

I got the vibe from Ben that he was trying to get Juliet to react more to Goodwin being gone. I didn't think about all of the details of the timeline, but during that scene I just though, "wow....Ben know's that Goodwin is dead and is just messing with Juliet now. He is really sick."


And seriously---he brought her to the island for himself....yikes!

Goldfoot, what do you mean by "shortly after" day 27?
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Arrow
The station was discovered by the Tailies (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Tailies) (see list of station explorers (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Station_explorers)) 27 days after the crash. It was used temporarily as a shelter. ("The Other 48 Days (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Other_48_Days)") Among the occupants were Ana-Lucia (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Ana-Lucia), Mr. Eko (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Mr._Eko), Libby (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Libby), Bernard (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Bernard), Cindy (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Cindy) and Goodwin (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Goodwin) (who was discovered to be an Other (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Others) and killed shortly after the station's discovery).I haven't been able to go back and watch that episode to see if it specifically states which day it was.

Here's my revised theory....

Hypothesis: After Claire escapes -- with Danielle's aid -- on Day 27, Ethan runs after her to get her back. The Others at that point write Ethan off as "lost". (In other words, Ethan's lost his cool and he's going to get himself killed. This means that Ethan was a rogue when he killed Scott.

Now, by Day 27, the Tailies had already left the beach. But Juliet doesn't know this. Ben had already sent Tom to find Goodwin and nobody knew his status. Nobody knew that Goodwin was dead. So when Juliet begs Ben to bring Goodwin back, the truth is that Ben couldn't do that if he wanted. But Ben doesn't tell Juliet that. Instead he manipulates her, probing how she feels about him. Truly, Ben probably should have extracted Goodwin after Ethan got exposed on day 16, ten days before the Tailies leave the beach.

Tom doesn't find Goodwin's body until after Ethan has been killed by Charlie. The Others don't know the timeline. Nor does it matter. Ben could have extracted Goodwin on day 10 and kept him in to get rid of a rival for Juliet's affections.

Only nitpick. Juliet says that Goodwin has been undercover for three weeks. On the day that Claire escapes, which is the earliest Juliet and Ben could have had their talk, Goodwin's been in the field for 26 days. You'd think Juliet would have described that as "a month" or "four weeks" rather than rounding down to three weeks. But that's a small nitpick.

For those that aren't sure, go back and watch how Ben pauses before telling her about Goodwin and Ana Lucia.
He KNOWS Goodwin is dead by then.
He says, "Thinks he can help her." in a way I think he wants Juliet to get jealous.
When she doesn't get jealous, he shows her the body.

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Arrow


The station was discovered by the Tailies (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Tailies) (see list of station explorers (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Station_explorers)) 27 days after the crash. It was used temporarily as a shelter. (" The Other 48 Days (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Other_48_Days)") Among the occupants were Ana-Lucia (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Ana-Lucia), Mr. Eko (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Mr._Eko), Libby (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Libby), Bernard (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Bernard), Cindy (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Cindy) and Goodwin (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Goodwin) (who was discovered to be an Other (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Others) and killed shortly after the station's discovery).
I haven't been able to go back and watch that episode to see if it specifically states which day it was.

Odd...In 48 Days, that's when the tailies also discovered the radio and Bernard spoke to Boone on it. So I dated it from Deus Ex Machina, when Boone was up in the small plane and fell. According to Lostpedia, that episode was Day 39-41 - probably Day 40 when Boone made the radio call.

Did Ana kill Goodwin the same day the Tailies found the station? I'm not at home to watch the episode to see if there's a title for a new day after Ana tells them Goodwin's gone. Because that doesn't match up in the timeline at all - Day 27 vs. Day 39.

In either case, I wonder about the exact day it was when Ben took Juliet to see Goodwin's body. She just informed him that Jack is a spinal surgeon - a fact very critical to Ben at the time. Either way, I think this is well before The Hunting Party (Day 52-53) when Tom and his crew had Jack & co. at gunpoint. That goes back to the question, why didn't they just grab Jack then to make him do the surgery? If Ben had his diabolical plot of using Kate & Sawyer to manipulate him, they had all three of them plus Locke right there.

Goodwin was definitely killed on Day 27, the day they found the radio. But they couldn't use it that day because the hills blocked the transmission. In fact, Goodwin was taking the radio to higher ground, ostensibly to see if they could contact anybody, when Ana Lucia asked to join him (to confront him about her suspicions).

Bernard doesn't make contact with Boone until Day 40 or 41.

I agree that Ben had to have taken Juliet to see Goodwin within days of his death. The body simply was not sufficiently decomposed to have been lying around for weeks. Which means that Ben knew about Jack for three to four days.

As for why they didn't gather up Jack when they had him chasing after Michael on day 52? That's been a plot hole for a while. Ben was already plotting to manipulate the love triangle when Paolo overheard them in the Pearl on day 49. Then, three days later, they basically walk into Ben's lap! Why did he let them go, and then six days later get captured in the Swan?

My guess is that Ben got himself captured by Danielle, and manipulated her into turning him over to Sayid so that he could get into the Swan and figure out a way to blow it up, which he did by picking Locke apart (pun intended).

Goodwin was definitely killed on Day 27, the day they found the radio. But they couldn't use it that day because the hills blocked the transmission. In fact, Goodwin was taking the radio to higher ground, ostensibly to see if they could contact anybody, when Ana Lucia asked to join him (to confront him about her suspicions).

Bernard doesn't make contact with Boone until Day 40 or 41.

I agree that Ben had to have taken Juliet to see Goodwin within days of his death. The body simply was not sufficiently decomposed to have been lying around for weeks. Which means that Ben knew about Jack for three to four days.

As for why they didn't gather up Jack when they had him chasing after Michael on day 52? That's been a plot hole for a while. Ben was already plotting to manipulate the love triangle when Paolo overheard them in the Pearl on day 49. Then, three days later, they basically walk into Ben's lap! Why did he let them go, and then six days later get captured in the Swan?

My guess is that Ben got himself captured by Danielle, and manipulated her into turning him over to Sayid so that he could get into the Swan and figure out a way to blow it up, which he did by picking Locke apart (pun intended).

Thanks for the timeline, marksman. That reminds me, the plot-hole of not taking Jack in THP may be that the writers hadn't developed the spinal tumor storyline yet. Michael Emerson was originally signed on for only 4-6 episodes in Season 2, I remember reading. And he was such an evil hit that they decided to keep him.
One of Them, his debut, of course took place after The Hunting Party so there you go.

For those that aren't sure, go back and watch how Ben pauses before telling her about Goodwin and Ana Lucia.
He KNOWS Goodwin is dead by then.
He says, "Thinks he can help her." in a way I think he wants Juliet to get jealous.
When she doesn't get jealous, he shows her the body.
Typical Ben. Safe to say that whether the D.O.D's were a communication issue or Ben's "waiting for the right moment," both are dead and the timing is really irrelevant.

I agree that Ben had to have taken Juliet to see Goodwin within days of his death. The body simply was not sufficiently decomposed to have been lying around for weeks. Which means that Ben knew about Jack for three to four days.
I take it back. When Jin accidentally finds Goodwin's body on Day 47 in "...And Found", it's in pretty good shape. (It also appears to be in a different place than where Ana Lucia killed him, and where Ben shows it to Juliet -- maybe wild board dragged it into the jungle.)

So Juliet and Goodwin could have been to visit Goodwin's body anytime between their dinner date after Ethan's death on day 28ish to when Goodwin's corpse goes into the jungle some time prior to day 47.

Any timeline junkies willing to concur? I'm curious myself. It was odd that only Pickett (that we know of, anyway) got a proper funeral. I think they just wanted to show their procedures for a funeral and making Jack feel he's one of them by inviting him along. I think it would be tedious if we had to witness a funeral for all the Others that died.


Good point! I also think we were shown that Viking funeral because of its heavy theme of reincarnation for a reason. There was even a song playing when they sent Colleen off that was about reincarnation, and then Ben? said something to her body about having a good next life.