That just really freaked me out! Is Ben just trying to build his happy little family?? And what about Cindy. She seemed to be taking care of the children.

I know, right? I think they were really throwing in a lot of season 2/Tailie references in this episode. Like, A LOT. So they threw in this one too. I think they were probably with Cindy a lot but also with Juliet since she's a doctor. I guess?

When Ben said that, CIndy hadn't been brought in yet. And here's something interesting... Juliet says they abducted everyone on the list. Does that mean Cindy wasn't on the list?

I loved the references. Not sure why Juliet would have been spending time with the kids, since we have no evidence she's the maternal type and she was quite busy trying to save lives. But still, the writers are clearly trying to make us remember all those tailie characters, and I definitely appreciate it.
100%
When Ben said that, CIndy hadn't been brought in yet. And here's something interesting... Juliet says they abducted everyone on the list. Does that mean Cindy wasn't on the list?
Oh yeah, you are so right about that! Good one!
Maybe Cindy wasn't on the list, because she was in on the conspiracy from the beginning? Or maybe there is no list, and Ben is just messing with people, as per usual?

Echo also WAS on the list, but they failed to capture him. Maybe they just decided to scratch his name since he killed someone?

I think Cindy was one of Them from the beginning. Just like Ben has a man on the boat, he had people on the plane.
And now I'm wondering, if Eko was on the list, and they couldn't get him, maybe they killed him via Smokey later so that the other side couldn't have him either?

Good catch about Cindy. Juliet doesn't strike me as the maternal type either, but I can see Ben saddling her up with the job for a while to test her... form a mental picture in his head of the future Misus with the future little bug eyed darlings. Good God, someone stop me, I'm making myself sick! :sick:


Maybe Cindy wasn't on the list, because she was in on the conspiracy from the beginning? Or maybe there is no list, and Ben is just messing with people, as per usual?

Yeah, I'll go with that. I've never believed there was an actual list, just Ben's mindgames.

It's true, Cindy wasn't taken until long after the tailies trekked into the jungle. Maybe the Others needed someone to serve beverages and cold sandwiches?

*Edit~ We saw an actual list, the one that Bea gave to Michael.

From the transcript of "The Other 48 Days" it seems that the 9 people on the list that Ana found were the people that were already taken from the beach - which wouldn't include anyone taken after. Why do people think that Eko was on the list?

Why do people think that Eko was on the list?I think some people made that assumption because he was caught up in the struggle when they tried to kidnap some of them. But I think he was leaping to someone else's defense, not being captured himself.

I also agree that Cindy was in on it from the beginning.

About the lists, does it seem odd to anyone else that there would be SO many people on the list from the tail section, and NO ONE from the middle section? Claire wasn't on any list-- they wanted her because she was pregnant. That just seems highly unlikely to me.

The lists were made later. It was mentioned in another episode that Ethan never had a chance to make up his list and thus they never had a shot to start abducting Fusies.

Nah, it is a plot hole. The Others started abducting tail section people the first night, and did their big abduction only a few days later. Even if you give Ethan an extra week (because there were more people from the fuselage) he still would have had plenty of time to figure out who survived the crash so that a list could be made.

That just really freaked me out! Is Ben just trying to build his happy little family?? And what about Cindy. She seemed to be taking care of the children.

That little, :badwords: creep!

He kidnaps children, holds Juliet hostage and he thinks he is Mr. Clever.

So Juliet doesn't care that they are abducting children and terrorizing people who just survived a horrific plane crash?
Also, if you're going to give us an island flashback, I'd LOVE to see the point where they go from "little island natives who have bookclubs and therapists and happy lives" to becoming THE OTHERS and wear rags, kidnap people, kill people, terrorize people. There's never been a scene of Ben telling the others "Look, I know you like your lives now, and I know some of you work at the power station, some of you are doctors, some of you are old, some are young, but I need us all now to become savages who live in the jungle, we're also going to whisper more now, ok? We're going to be incredibly creepy, and leave no tracks. I want you all to become fantastic fighters, and you should all be incredibly badass for one season, but after our cover is blown revert to being whiny losers"

Nah, it is a plot hole. The Others started abducting tail section people the first night, and did their big abduction only a few days later. Even if you give Ethan an extra week (because there were more people from the fuselage) he still would have had plenty of time to figure out who survived the crash so that a list could be made.

I thought it was implied later that Ethan became attached to Claire and that clouded his judgement on his mission to obtain the lists. There were also more survivors at the fuselage than at the tail section, may be that had something to do with it.

So Juliet doesn't care that they are abducting children and terrorizing people who just survived a horrific plane crash?
Also, if you're going to give us an island flashback, I'd LOVE to see the point where they go from "little island natives who have bookclubs and therapists and happy lives" to becoming THE OTHERS and wear rags, kidnap people, kill people, terrorize people. There's never been a scene of Ben telling the others "Look, I know you like your lives now, and I know some of you work at the power station, some of you are doctors, some of you are old, some are young, but I need us all now to become savages who live in the jungle, we're also going to whisper more now, ok? We're going to be incredibly creepy, and leave no tracks. I want you all to become fantastic fighters, and you should all be incredibly badass for one season, but after our cover is blown revert to being whiny losers"

omg tooootally. This has been bothering me for awhile! I really don't understand the back and forth transformation between behaviors and how they pull it off. Where is the training for this kind of thing? Are they all capable??

The comment about Zack and Emma made me wonder... whatever happened to the dirty zombie kid legs from season one (I think it was one..or two)? What was that all about?

What are you referring to? I have no clue.

The comment about Zack and Emma made me wonder... whatever happened to the dirty zombie kid legs from season one (I think it was one..or two)? What was that all about?

That was Zack and Emma...his teddy bear matched. I think they were just walking all slow because they were trying to be quiet.

That was season 2.... so that's why I wasn't sure if that was what TheMe was referring to.

That was Zack and Emma...his teddy bear matched. I think they were just walking all slow because they were trying to be quiet.


Yes and the image really creeped Jin out. There was more than just 'dress up to trick the tailies' going on here...or then..or whatever.

Eko wasn't on the list. As Goodwin said (although he was doing one of those "if I were them" scenarios), they came the first time to take out anyone who would be a threat. Eko survived because he took a few out. Then there was the list business, and people got snatched.

So Juliet doesn't care that they are abducting children and terrorizing people who just survived a horrific plane crash?
Also, if you're going to give us an island flashback, I'd LOVE to see the point where they go from "little island natives who have bookclubs and therapists and happy lives" to becoming THE OTHERS and wear rags, kidnap people, kill people, terrorize people. There's never been a scene of Ben telling the others "Look, I know you like your lives now, and I know some of you work at the power station, some of you are doctors, some of you are old, some are young, but I need us all now to become savages who live in the jungle, we're also going to whisper more now, ok? We're going to be incredibly creepy, and leave no tracks. I want you all to become fantastic fighters, and you should all be incredibly badass for one season, but after our cover is blown revert to being whiny losers"
Yeah I was thinking about this today again, I want to know the explanation. The final reason for everything is going to have to be pretty damn good to cover everything.

Also, if you're going to give us an island flashback, I'd LOVE to see the point where they go from "little island natives who have bookclubs and therapists and happy lives" to becoming THE OTHERS and wear rags, kidnap people, kill people, terrorize people. There's never been a scene of Ben telling the others "Look, I know you like your lives now, and I know some of you work at the power station, some of you are doctors, some of you are old, some are young, but I need us all now to become savages who live in the jungle, we're also going to whisper more now, ok? We're going to be incredibly creepy, and leave no tracks. I want you all to become fantastic fighters, and you should all be incredibly badass for one season, but after our cover is blown revert to being whiny losers"

Exactly, this is a big one they are yet to answer. I supposed the Super-Natural others could be the ones like Richard, while Ben and Juliet are more normal because they were brought to the island.

Zach and Emma Widmore

The more I think about it the more likely it is. There has to be a reason they were mentioned. We are posed with a question...why is Widmore trying to find the Island AND why is he mad enough to be punching people in the face?

Then in the same episode we are reminded of 2 children who are on the List being held against their will. I dont see any point in mentioning them if its not connected in some way.

Im not saying they're the main reason Widmore is searching---because it appears he has been searching for a while. But that they are being held hostage by Ben.

Zach and Emma Widmore

The more I think about it the more likely it is. There has to be a reason they were mentioned. We are posed with a question...why is Widmore trying to find the Island AND why is he mad enough to be punching people in the face?

Then in the same episode we are reminded of 2 children who are on the List being held against their will. I dont see any point in mentioning them if its not connected in some way.

Im not saying they're the main reason Widmore is searching---because it appears he has been searching for a while. But that they are being held hostage by Ben.

I don't know what it is, but I'm absolutely sure they're not Widmore kids. Their mother is in LA, I think we might connect that to some other character, but not to the Britons....Never in the show have we seen anyone from the Widmore family having anything to do with the States...There is a good reason why a mother in LA was mentioned...Then again, if they ARE Widmore kids, are they Penny's sibings, children...Are they Ben's and Penny's children???

I think some people made that assumption because he was caught up in the struggle when they tried to kidnap some of them. But I think he was leaping to someone else's defense, not being captured himself.He was being dragged into the jungle, with three other men. Goodwin "speculates" they were going after the big, strong guys first, ones who might be a threat.

So Juliet doesn't care that they are abducting children and terrorizing people who just survived a horrific plane crash?
Also, if you're going to give us an island flashback, I'd LOVE to see the point where they go from "little island natives who have bookclubs and therapists and happy lives" to becoming THE OTHERS and wear rags, kidnap people, kill people, terrorize people. There's never been a scene of Ben telling the others "Look, I know you like your lives now, and I know some of you work at the power station, some of you are doctors, some of you are old, some are young, but I need us all now to become savages who live in the jungle, we're also going to whisper more now, ok? We're going to be incredibly creepy, and leave no tracks. I want you all to become fantastic fighters, and you should all be incredibly badass for one season, but after our cover is blown revert to being whiny losers"

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That just really freaked me out! Is Ben just trying to build his happy little family?? And what about Cindy. She seemed to be taking care of the children.

I think Juliet was probably one of several Others who got to spent time taking a more gentle (but still firm) approach with Zack and Emma.

Zack and Emma probably didn't give the Others as much trouble as Walt did, because they seemed a lot more mild-mannered. It probably didn't take a lot of effort from the Others to doctrinate/tame the two Tailie children.

It's also been implied that Miss Klugh spent time "teaching"/indoctrinating Zack and Emma. We know that Miss Klugh spent time "working with" Walt, based on their exchange in the yurt during "Three Minutes." The "Lost Moments" scene ("The Deal") between Michael and Juliet confirms that Juliet also worked with Walt. So if Juliet worked with Walt as well as Zack/Emma, then Miss Klugh (who we know worked with Walt) probably worked with Zack/Emma too. Also, Miss Klugh specifically introduced herself to Michael as "Miss Klugh" (not Beatrice), which sounds like the way a child would have been told to address Bea.

My guess is that Miss Klugh was one of the primary Others in charge of indoctrinating the children, and Juliet was brought in to help her at times. I'm guessing that Alex and Karl assisted them, based on a few pieces of evidence:

1.) Alex was the one whom Pickett sent to go bring Miss Klugh out of her yurt, once the Others arrived on the fake yurt village with Michael in "Three Minutes."

2.) When we see Alex sneak away from the compound in "The Glass Ballerina" and "I Do," she is wearing some type of school uniform-type outfit. I'm guessing that she snuck away from the compound where the children were being kept.

3.) I think the reason Karl was placed in the cage was because he was trying to subtly "teach" the children how to rebel, but the elder Others caught him. Alex and Karl may have been trying to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of Zack/Emma/Walt, but they were caught by Klugh and Juliet.

It's really too bad that the actors who play Emma and Zack are growing so fast in real life, because I would love to see some FBs from Emma's and/or Zack's perspectives.

With Cindy, I think she might have been on Jacob's list from the very beginning, but the Others just didn't capture her quickly enough during their first two raids on the Tailie camp. So the soonest they were able to abduct Cindy was when the Tailies were leading Jin/Sawyer/Michael up the cliff (with Sawyer on the stretcher).

I think Cindy formed a bond with Zack and Emma on the Tailie beach, and once Cindy was captured by the Others they used that bond to blackmail Cindy into cooperating - - i.e. the Others threatened Cindy by telling her they would kill Zack and Emma if she didn't obey them.