I am still not sure. I mean, it seems like Jack and Juliet now believe Dan and Charlotte. I can't stand Charlotte but I love Dan... and I trust Dan after the last episode. So, are the Freighties on the "good" side and Ben is on the "bad side"? Is it everyone vs. Ben now???

Daniel and Frank are good guys caught up in all this crap but the frieghters are in NO way good. Charolette hide who she was and they both hide this stuff for this episode. Also she and Miles are against the island Losties knowing anything about them or the island. ALso Addonon wanted Namoi to make sure all the survivors were dead even if they needed to kill them all.

The frieghters are Evil, Ben is Evil, the Losties are good and MAYBE the original hostiles like Richard are good but not Ben and the frieghters.

Daniel and Charlotte were merely acting out of self-preservation. It just so happens that by association, everyone else will benifit. Untill they start spilling the beans of why they are after Ben, I don't trust them. Well Charlote and Miles. I trust Frank and Dan.

I think is still all in perspective. I kind of actually believe everything that Ben said about Mr. Widmore, but on the otherhand I don't see Mr. Widmore gassing everybody on the island, like Ben would and has done. So I think that Dan and Charlotte are good people and doing their job and did potentially save everybody by shutting down the Tempest. But I can totally see Widmore exploiting the island if he ever got ahold of it.

Daniel and Charlotte were merely acting out of self-preservation. It just so happens that by association, everyone else will benifit. Untill they start spilling the beans of why they are after Ben, I don't trust them. Well Charlote and Miles. I trust Frank and Dan.

Absolutely, Lapidus and Faraday seem to be pretty ignorant of the forces at work to control this Island. Lewis and Faraday knew what they needed to do to protect themselves from Ben and they did it.

Lewis and Miles are after something. Something Selfish.

No. I believe the four team members might be good. They've been lied to and told that they are on the island to stop Ben Linus, who is evil(can't really argue with that). But the freightastic four have not been told the truth about what their organization wants to do with the island or how far they are willing to go to take it. The only reason for disabling the gas delivery system, which is how I assume the others delivered the gas in the purge, was to make invading the island easier for them. Ben can't gas the freighties if they invade. The four don't know the final goals of their organization. And I think the losties are still in danger, the success of the freighties mission depends on the island remaining a secret and if the losties are rescued the island isn't a secret. I don't think the four know that Widmore has any intention of sharing the island's wonders with the world. He wants to control it for more power.

Yeah it does seem that Miles and Charlotte are bad eggs. Frank and Daniel are being manipulated by them/ Abaddon/ Naomi? ... Ugh, I HATE Charlotte. lol.

I have no idea. On one hand I totally trust Dan and I dont think Frank's a bad guy, Charlotte's a wild card and Miles is just a selfish jerk (though I love him), so it looks like they might be an ok bunch, but then again they're employed by Widmore and he's gotta be a bad guy.

Assuming future Sayid is killing people assciated with Widmore, I'd have to say that Ben in a "good" guy and the freighties are bad by association, but that doesnt mean they cant turn and be on the Losties side a la Juliet.

So, do we believe the Freighties are good now?


NO! And HELL NO!!!!

They are getting paid by Widmore apparently to do his bidding. Widmore is megalomaniacal and will stop at nothing to take the island.

Yeah I think Dan and Frank are good guys caught between a rock and a hard place -- Catch 22 anyone? But overall the freighties are there to take the island and kill every single person on it.

Dan did admit that rescuing them wasn't the first priority.

I believe Dan, Charlotte, Frank and Miles are good people who were recruited by Abbadon (and Widmore?) for nefarious reasons unbeknownst to them. I think they were given a limited amount of intel -- which, doubtless, included info that was wrong or purposely misleading -- and sent to do their job. But none of them, including Charlotte or Miles, strike me as bad people.

We can infer from the scene between Abaddon and Naomi that the four freighties are basically hirelings - they probably weren't given a lot of information, except for what they were told about Ben, which may not be true (or may be only partly true). Faraday's got to be a good guy, and Frank seems to be. I just hope there aren't a bunch of freightie factions (Other freighties, hostile freighies, etc.).

We can infer from the scene between Abaddon and Naomi that the four freighties are basically hirelings - they probably weren't given a lot of information, except for what they were told about Ben, which may not be true (or may be only partly true). Faraday's got to be a good guy, and Frank seems to be. I just hope there aren't a bunch of freightie factions (Other freighties, hostile freighies, etc.).
It's lost, of course there will be different factions on the boat. Only it will boil down to some people have more information than others. I think the captain and a few key command personnel know the true nature of the mission while the four have been told half truths and lies in order to get them to parachute onto the island. Many of the other freighter crew probably don't know the true nature of the mission as shown by Keamy and Omar last week.

My working hypothesis after tonight's episode is that neither Ben nor Widmore are good for the island. Before tonight, I thought Ben still had a chance to be a "good guy" using extreme measures to accomplish a goal that would benefit the many. After seeing "crazy relationship" Ben tonight, I have reassessed my position. Ben got Goodwin killed for no other reason than to get him out of the way so he could continue pursuing an unwanted relationship with Juliet. This action showed Ben pursuing a lethal goal benefiting nobody but himself.

Having been shown a violent Widmore tonight (and having been shown by Ben) would lead me to assume that Widmore was good, this being Lost and all, but I am now leaning toward the idea that Ben and Widmore are two powerful players, and the stakes are the control of the island. Neither Ben nor Widmore should be in control of the island.

The freighties are merely pawns. Dan and Lapidus seem sympathetic characters, while Miles seems to be looking out for himself. Charlotte looks like a consummate team player, but playing for a bad team. I believe the real baddies are still on the freighter.

\

I believe the real baddies are still on the freighter.
That's what I've been saying since the freighties were introduced, the four on the island aren't bad, the real danger still lies on the freighter. Hope Desmond and Sayid turn out okay. Sayid can get out of it, he did break a guys neck with his legs.

There appear to be five or more different factions now: those working for Widmore in the know, those working for Widmore not in the know, those allied or working for Ben (and some of them "might" be working against him now), and the two groups of original Losties. Oh, and Jacob might be a faction in and of himself, though I think he might be a manifestation of Ben, just as Harper likely was, and he or it is responsible for the whispers tellling the Others what to do.

I like this: it's getting exciting. But I don't believe the Freighties, or any other group on the island really, is "good". Ben is the only one that might qualify as "evil", but as we still don't have a sure sense of his motives in all this, I'm reserving judgement.

There appear to be five or more different factions now: those working for Widmore in the know, those working for Widmore not in the know, those allied or working for Ben (and some of them "might" be working against him now), and the two groups of original Losties. Oh, and Jacob might be a faction in and of himself, though I think he might be a manifestation of Ben, just as Harper likely was, and he or it is responsible for the whispers tellling the Others what to do.

I like this: it's getting exciting. But I don't believe the Freighties, or any other group on the island really, is "good". Ben is the only one that might qualify as "evil", but as we still don't have a sure sense of his motives in all this, I'm reserving judgement.


So no one is good? What about Desmond since I would classify him as a group in himself. What has he done that was evil or bad?

He's not evil - I don't believe any of them are particularly evil, either, just that a possible is Ben., I would call Desmond selfish in his treatment of Penny at times. While I wouldn't call him a coward, there is certainly something insecure him about him that has made him treat her less than she deserves. Nobody is "pure" in this story, except Aaron.

Since they received the mission from Noami from Abaddon. They would do anything, in their right mind thinking this mission is for the greater good.

I know that Abaddon might not be on the boat, nor is Widmore. But i guess he is tracking the freighter's movements. Widmore knows of Penny's search for Desmond, and is using her to find the island.

He also hopes Desmond gets on the boat, to contact Penny, so there would be suspicions onboard, also Saiyd and Desmond did block the door, which made the freighters end up alerting the whole ship. And Desmond would be killed for this hope's sake.

Not sure why Widmore is interested in the healing island full of smoke monsters, polar bears, etc. I think he and Abaddon wants to start Dharma again. Also Paik, if he is still in his deal.

I think that the four main Freighties are not bad. Miles may be a money-grubbing jerk, but Charlotte, Dan and Frank are all cool, even if they know more about what's going on than they are willing to say.

They are decent people caught up in a larger game being played by Widmore for the Island.

So no one is good? What about Desmond since I would classify him as a group in himself. What has he done that was evil or bad?

Well there is that theory running around that Des may not have been completely honest with Charlie about Claire getting on a heli. Of course, that's all speculation.

I agree with pps, that Charlotte and Miles are selfish regarding the island. I think Charlotte def knows more than she is letting on and gets so annoyed with Daniel when he gives the Losties any kind of information.

I haven't drawn any solid conclusion, but they can't know the whole story. No one on LOST does--except for maybe Ben.

Not so sure about Charlotte and Miles yet, but I don't find Frank and Daniel to be a threat at all. I think they're trying to help the losties, and I think Miles is harmless and maybe just has his own agenda. Can't wait to find out what the 3.2 million is all about.

I think a few (Dan, Frank) we don't need to worry about, Charlotte and Miles are iffy (I'm leaning towards Charlotte being ok and Miles being not-so-ok). Not sure about the people on the freighter yet.

Then fantasic four are good guys the freighties and Windmore the jury is still out. You have to keep in mind we have only seen what BEN whated us to see of the tape. For all we know the guy getting knocked around could have been an Assassin sent by Ben. Windmore could just as eassily be on the sind of good as he is bad.

Those in the know on the freighter are bad guys, those not in the know on the freighter/island may be good guys, we have yet to find out.

I would lean to the people on the freighter (Widmore's people) are not good. The 4 (Dan, Miles, etc) are complete hirelings. Daniel really seems like a good guy. Charlotte is much tougher to tell. The pilot seems like he is a good guy. Miles really seems like he is just an opportunist, his actions go very contrary to the freighter.

So if WIdmore is a bad guy we have 2 bad guys squaring off. Last night would really show Ben as quite a bad guy. Now that just leaves the question of if the Others, the ones Ben joined, are bad guys.

This show is funny, You go from one week trying to figure out what/when the island is, to now trying to figure out who the good guys are.

I think they might be better than we've be led to believe. We have only got Ben's side of things and we know you can only believe that at great risk.
Ben lies for his own reasons that to him are good but that dosen't mean that they that Widmore is bad. We know Ben is bad depending on your outlook of things.
Widmore may be a pompous "donkey" but that doesn't mean he's evil.

I don't think this show is about good guys and bad guys. Maybe we'll ultimately learn to understand both Widmore and Ben 's motivations. We learned last year that the others couldn't be bad, simply because they were not a unifyed entity, just like our gang isn't one. Nobody thinks Jack is good and Locke is bad.The whole point of centering each episode is to show us that pretty much everybody has a gray area. Remember when Sawyer was a bad guy? When Goodwyn was creepy? When Jin was macho? When Tom was scary? When Locke was Crocodile Dundee? That's what differenciates Lost from your average TV show

I will agree that good/evil is kind of a subjective thing. For example I really think that Ben and now Locke are acting on behalf of the island (which could possibly also be for the good of all on the island). I do think that Ben has kind of gone off the deep end and that is possibly why Jacob? is working with Locke (Pure speculation)

Now it is possible that Ben is correct about Widmore being an opportunist that want's to exploit the island. Now this by no means means that Widmore is an evil guy.

Now Jack and Sayid both appear(to me at least) to be concerned with the welfare of the group. They do what they think is best for the good of all. (Sometimes they make the wrong decisions - or at least Jack does :) )

I think the only complete lines we can draw are Ben vs. Widmore.

Regardless of whether the individual freighties are 'good' people, they have been sent by Widemore as a forward team to dismantle Ben's defense systems, one being The Tempest. Ben is a maniacal dictator, but he is still the only one (perhaps along with Locke now) intent on defending the island and with the comprehension of what outside forces the island is facing.

The freighties may have prevented anyone from using the Tempest but they have also stopped Ben's ability to deter an aggressive attack from external forces.

To my knowledge Widmore has never actually killed any one. Beating them up maybe but we don't know the context. Ben has and will kill with impunity -- incluidng his own people -- the man has a god complex which is dangerous. He has infected Locke with the God complex and Locke now acts against the interests of his own people.

Widmore is a business man, his actions are motivated by money and while many people might disagree with the notion there is a limit to how far someone will go to get richer. Someone who is delusional will have no such bounds.

Even if Widmore is evil, there does not seem to be any reason that the people he employs are in turn evil.

I do. I've pretty much believed they're good since I first saw them and their flashbacks. I trust Daniel and Frank especially. Charlotte is just annoying, and Miles seems really edgy. I like Miles, but I don't think you can trust him.

This show is funny, You go from one week trying to figure out what/when the island is, to now trying to figure out who the good guys are.

Yep, and there is a big chance that there are no good guys here LOL.

Widmore may be a pompous "donkey" but that doesn't mean he's evil.

Well, considering that he was kicking around a guy who was tied up and blindfolded, I don't count him as a good guy. :rolleyes:

True that both of them may (think that they) have good motivations to purge out a fifty unlucky scientists, manipulate, kill, bribe and trick everyone they meet... but that will never make either of them good.

I feel like we need to make a difference between the freighties - Naomi and the fishy people on the boat, and the Team. Some may have hidden agendas (Miles for sure, Charlotte maybe), but they definitely don't know what they got themselves into.

I have thought for a few weeks now that they possibly weren't all that bad. I think Dan and Frank grew on me and I don't think that they are bad guys. I still can't stand Charlotte, but then again I couldnt' stand Juliet when she first came on and now i no longer feel that way about her. I hope the freighties are good, but I am not totally convinced of anything yet.

here's my take on a few things......

just because Widmore wants to find the island, doesn't necessarily mean he's up to no good. Granted, we haven't been shown a side of him that would make me believe he's basically a 'nice' guy, but we have no reason to believe that if he got control of the island, he wouldn't use the island's special properties to better mankind (and probably make a good buck at the same time) Having said that, I think he's probably similar to Ben in a way which loss of human life is acceptable if it gets him what he wants.

Miles - probably a half-decent person deep down, but may easily have been recruited for the job for his abilities, found out about Ben and has seen this as his opportunity to hit paydirt. Extort enough money from Ben so he never has to work again. (why $3.2 mil exactly?.....maybe he did enough research on Ben to know that that is as much money as Ben can get his hands on without too much trouble)

Charlotte - again, good person who also has her own agenda. She knows about Dharma (to what extent, we don't know yet) so she sees this as her opportunity for great discovery.

Faraday - definately a good person, who sees this adventure as an opportunity as well, but doesn't want his work to come at the expense of others.

Dan - i think he's good, but can't quite figure out what he gains from all this.

Nope. Maybe Lapidus is, but the other ones we still don't know about.

I think that Dan and Charlotte were not at the Tempest just to deactivate the gas. I think they had a different objective, which required trying to manually override the system (hence the "manual override" warnings over the speakers). The system was booby-trapped to release its poisonous gas in the event of tampering. While D&C knew that, and were willing to try to prevent it from happening, stopping the gas was not their primary objective. They had their hazmat suits in case they could not, and were willing to risk the lives of everyone else on the Island.

Dan may have been ambivalent about risking everyone's lives, but went ahead anyway. Charlotte was clearly willing to proceed.

Faraday - definately a good person, who sees this adventure as an opportunity as well, but doesn't want his work to come at the expense of others.

Dan - i think he's good, but can't quite figure out what he gains from all this.

Dan and Faraday are the same person. I think when you said "Dan" you meant "Frank"? If so, I THINK what Frank gains from this feeling like he's worthwhile. He's been labeled as a drunk but he knows he's a good pilot. He feels guilt that he wasn't the one flying that plane, that maybe it wouldn't have crashed. And if it did crash, at lesat he would be dead instead of his good friend. Also, he knows that the plane in the Sunda Trench is not flight 815 so he wants to expose the truth. That's my take on it at least.

How can we tell? Widmore is shown "having some one beat up" how conveinent to have that on tape. We only have Ben's word that what even happened.

Negative Ghostrider

I think it's very important to keep in mind that we only have Ben's word on what that whole video with Widmore was about. How much do we really trust Ben? He only tells what will help him further his agenda whatever that may be at any given moment. He seemed pretty happy with himself when he marched across the lawn with his stack of linens/clothes lol I thought that was pretty funny. It was almost like a little kid taking his toys home after soundly whipping some other kid in a game. My mom (who is not a major Lost follower but watches with us) kept saying throughout the whole scenes with Locke "Ben is such a headcase!!" It's really true. So in the end I'm sure we will find out of not just one but many long cons Ben played on the Losties (and us!).

Dan and Faraday are the same person. I think when you said "Dan" you meant "Frank"? If so, I THINK what Frank gains from this feeling like he's worthwhile. He's been labeled as a drunk but he knows he's a good pilot. He feels guilt that he wasn't the one flying that plane, that maybe it wouldn't have crashed. And if it did crash, at lesat he would be dead instead of his good friend. Also, he knows that the plane in the Sunda Trench is not flight 815 so he wants to expose the truth. That's my take on it at least.

yup......meant Frank
and
yup......i agree with you about him.
Exposing the truth, solving the mystery and prove something to himself.
all good points, LL :biggrin:

yup......meant Frank
and
yup......i agree with you about him.
Exposing the truth, solving the mystery and prove something to himself.
all good points, LL :biggrin:

:lol2:

Oh, and I totally agree with those who are saying we can't trust Ben re: Widmore. I mean, I don't think we can trust Widmore either! But they both have agendas, and I am not sure either of their agendas are in the interest of any of the Losties.

This thread actually reminds me of a part of S3 when Ben handed Juliet the gas mask (which strangely I don't think she ever ended up using) and told her he'd activate the implant in Claire, so that when Juliet got to the Losties' camp, she would have "a nice big crisis to solve". Maybe this whole gas thing was the Freighties' "nice big crisis to solve".

I think it's very important to keep in mind that we only have Ben's word on what that whole video with Widmore was about. How much do we really trust Ben? He only tells what will help him further his agenda whatever that may be at any given moment. He seemed pretty happy with himself when he marched across the lawn with his stack of linens/clothes lol I thought that was pretty funny. It was almost like a little kid taking his toys home after soundly whipping some other kid in a game. My mom (who is not a major Lost follower but watches with us) kept saying throughout the whole scenes with Locke "Ben is such a headcase!!" It's really true. So in the end I'm sure we will find out of not just one but many long cons Ben played on the Losties (and us!).

Bingo MegletTX
you said a mouthful. I was particularly struck how how the tape abruptly goes static when Widmore looks up at the camera. Made wonder if Widmore gives Ben a big thumbs up, or says Are you happy now Ben? Is there anything else you want me to do? Meet you back at HQ etc. I remain skeptical. Now the reasons why I DON'T think Ben and Widmore are working together (at least not presently) is that Ben looked scared like Ben has never looked so scared before when Miles asked if he "knew who he was" and "who he works for" combined with the frieghties ovbvious hostility towards Ben. Neither Widmore nor Ben seems like a particularly good guy. As for who the REAL villian is I guess we have to wait and see.