The Freighties were there to turn off the gas, but how did the whole process of the gas being emitted get started? They want it to look like it was Ben's doing, but Ben is in captivity miles (no pun intended) away. I think the whole scene, although I think Dan thought it was real, was faked by Charlotte.

I think Dan had to "release" the gas so that he could render it inert.

Then what was the gauge they showed of the gas? It's toxicity?

I think there's a thread fairly close to this one that's already discussing it :smile:

where?

Right hurrr

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=91341

As I understood...Farady was rendering the chemical inert so that Ben could not later release it to kill everyone on the island. Does Daniel know/see the future?

As I understood...Farady was rendering the chemical inert so that Ben could not later release it to kill everyone on the island. Does Daniel know/see the future?

Probably not. The more likely explanation would be that since Ben has done this in the past (the Purge) that he would likely do it again - it was Ben after all, who said "Every single living person on this Island will die" if the Freighter was contacted. Perhaps he meant that he would have to kill everyone once again?

But how exactly do the frieghties know about the Purge?

But how exactly do the frieghties know about the Purge?

How exactly do the freighties know about the Island?
How does Charlotte know Juliette, and Ben?

I certainly wasn't trying to be antagonistic. just typing while thinking. you may well be correct and you're definitely right about there being many, many mysteries on LOST

All I was implying was there's a lot we don't know - and I'd assume that all those types of questions will probably be answered all at once.

Then what was the gauge they showed of the gas? It's toxicity?

It looks like it was a pressure guage. Thus, when the pressure becaomes excessive, the gas is vented.

As I understood...Farady was rendering the chemical inert so that Ben could not later release it to kill everyone on the island. Does Daniel know/see the future?
They weren't rendering the gas inert for the protection of the everyone on the island. I'm making the educated guess that the gas delivery system was the way in which Ben killed the Dharma Initiative. If the freighties were to invade the island, Ben as a last resort could release the gas and kill them. Rendering the gas inert makes easier for the freighties to invade and harder for Ben to stop them. So what Charlotte and Faraday were doing was helping their people not the losties.

But did Dan and Charlotte initiate the release of the gas so they could then render it inert? I'm not sure that adds up.

But did Dan and Charlotte initiate the release of the gas so they could then render it inert? I'm not sure that adds up.

What doesn't add up?

My guess is Daniel was adding something/changing something with the tanks causing a reaction of some sort, thus building pressure that he needed to calm before, i dunno, KABOOM. Got it in the nick of time didn't he, PHEW

Clochard: Agreed. Cheers Mate. The one-little-piece-at-a-time-answers is what keeps me on the edge of the sofa each week.

What doesn't add up?

Unless you are assuming that they did it to prevent Ben from doing it, why would you wake a sleeping dog? No one else knew it was there...or are you saying that they wanted to protect them from themseves?...finding that kind of power could be dangerous.

Unless you are assuming that they did it to prevent Ben from doing it, why would you wake a sleeping dog? No one else knew it was there...or are you saying that they wanted to protect them from themseves?...finding that kind of power could be dangerous.


No, no - whatever Daniel did, in my understanding, made the gas un-lethal.
All of the noble gases are "inert" as they don't' react with other elements, or themselves.

No, no - whatever Daniel did, in my understanding, made the gas un-lethal.
All of the noble gases are "inert" as they don't' react with other elements, or themselves.

I understand. My point is that they came within seconds of NOT making the gas "un-lethal". so they were willing to risk the pop of the island to disarm the thing? No one knew it existed, except Ben I presume. So what was their motivation? To prevent Ben from using it or prevent the Lostie's from finding it and using it?

I understand. My point is that they came within seconds of NOT making the gas "un-lethal". so they were willing to risk the pop of the island to disarm the thing? No one knew it existed, except Ben I presume. So what was their motivation? To prevent Ben from using it or prevent the Lostie's from finding it and using it?

Yes I think they were willing to risk it - hence the gas masks.

But from who, were they disarming it is a good question.
I'd stick with Ben though, on that one.

But did Dan and Charlotte initiate the release of the gas so they could then render it inert? I'm not sure that adds up.

You people weren't paying attention.

Here's more transcript than necessary, compiling the computer's voice in the Tempest:

+(Alarm sounding)
+AUTOMATED VOICE: "Warning. Computer switching to manual operation. This
+attempt is unauthorized. Warning--manual entry override denied. Warning--manual
+entry override denied. Repeated attempts to access storage tanks will result in
+contamination.Repeated attempts to access tanks will result in contamination.
+Final warning--manual override failed. Countermeasures will begin. One minute to +contamination.
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: 40 seconds to contamination.
+(alarm sounds)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: 30 seconds to contamination.
+(alarm continues blaring)
+(alarm sounds)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: Warning--contamination imminent. Evacuate immediately.
+(Alarm continues blaring)
+(alarm continues blaring, rapid typing on keyboard)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: 20 seconds to contamination.
+(Rapid beeping)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: 10 seconds to contamination.
+(Alarm blaring rapidly)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: contamination in 5... 4... 3... 2...
+(alarm stops)
+(electrical whirring, powering down)
+(typing rapidly, typing stops)
+(loud mechanical hissing)
+(deep, descending electrical humming)
+(beeps)

The frieghties did not intentionally initiate the release of the gas. That was an automatic COUNTERMEASURE in response to Daniel's attempt to OVERRIDE the computer. He then in turn had to OVERRIDE THE COUNTERMEASURES to prevent a catastrophe from occurring. He was, however, aware enough of the danger involved to wear the gas mask. To once again quote from the episode:

+DAN: What happens if I... what if I can't do it?
+CHARLOTTE: Dan. Look at me. I know you can do this. Should we get going?
+DAN: Yeah.

- mnw

+(Alarm sounding)
+AUTOMATED VOICE: "Warning. Computer switching to manual operation. This
+attempt is unauthorized. Warning--manual entry override denied. Warning--manual
+entry override denied. Repeated attempts to access storage tanks will result in
+contamination.Repeated attempts to access tanks will result in contamination.
+Final warning--manual override failed. Countermeasures will begin. One minute to +contamination.
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: 40 seconds to contamination.
+(alarm sounds)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: 30 seconds to contamination.
+(alarm continues blaring)
+(alarm sounds)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: Warning--contamination imminent. Evacuate immediately.
+(Alarm continues blaring)
+(alarm continues blaring, rapid typing on keyboard)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: 20 seconds to contamination.
+(Rapid beeping)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: 10 seconds to contamination.
+(Alarm blaring rapidly)
+AUTOMATIC VOICE: contamination in 5... 4... 3... 2...
+(alarm stops)
+(electrical whirring, powering down)
+(typing rapidly, typing stops)
+(loud mechanical hissing)
+(deep, descending electrical humming)
+(beeps)

The frieghties did not intentionally initiate the release of the gas. That was an automatic COUNTERMEASURE in response to Daniel's attempt to OVERRIDE the computer.
Makes no sense. "Contamination" would be a strange choice of word, although not totally implausible. However, if the idea is to poison whomever attempted unauthorized access to storage tanks, why would it say to evacuate? That part is incompatible with its being a countermeasure.

Robert

It isn't clear what would be contaiminated...but since Daniel and Charlotte are done with their task, I'm not sure what they did do but almost set the stystem off then stop it at the last minute. When did they ever render the chemicals inert?

Contaminated might be because the chemicals cause a "sickness"? "The sickness"?

Makes no sense. "Contamination" would be a strange choice of word, although not totally implausible. However, if the idea is to poison whomever attempted unauthorized access to storage tanks, why would it say to evacuate? That part is incompatible with its being a countermeasure.

Robert

Certainly makes for a helluva DETERRENT, though, don't it? (For all the good it did in this case...) More and more it's appearing that the island's "investors" are serious about not letting it fall into "enemy hands".

- mnw

"Contamination" suggests to me that the station itself, rather than the island, would have been flooded with gas. Otherwise the evacuation warning would have been pretty pointless, no?

I first thought the evacuation notice would have been pointless if it were more than the station flooded, unless there was a pre-designated safe place to evacuate to. It isn't easy to contain gas. But then why would Daniel and Charlotte say that they saved the entire island?

AI first thought the evacuation notice would have been pointless if it were more than the station flooded, unless there was a pre-designated safe place to evacuate to. It isn't easy to contain gas. But then why would Daniel and Charlotte say that they saved the entire island?
They rendered the gas inert which means it can't be deployed on the island. They said they saved everyone because. A. They have been told they're on the island to stop Ben and lied to about their group's true intentions. And B. To further gain the trust of the losties. But probably a combination of both. All Charlotte and Daniel did was make invading the island easier for their people. If the losties weren't on the island they would have still rendered the gas inert.

When it comes down to it, there was a facility that was capable of flooding the island with lethal gas (which makes no sense, but still) which Dan rendered harmless.

Thus, they saved everyone on the island, no matter what their motives and no matter who would have deployed. Everyone is now safer.

I understand. My point is that they came within seconds of NOT making the gas "un-lethal". so they were willing to risk the pop of the island to disarm the thing? No one knew it existed, except Ben I presume. So what was their motivation? To prevent Ben from using it or prevent the Lostie's from finding it and using it?Yes, their mission was to render the gas harmless should Ben try to use it. I'm not sure if the risk of contaminating the island while doing so was built into the process, but yes again that Char/Far were willing to risk the lives of everyone to accomplish their mission.

When it comes down to it, there was a facility that was capable of flooding the island with lethal gas (which makes no sense, but still) which Dan rendered harmless.

Thus, they saved everyone on the island, no matter what their motives and no matter who would have deployed. Everyone is now safer.Correct!

When it comes down to it, there was a facility that was capable of flooding the island with lethal gas (which makes no sense, but still) which Dan rendered harmless.

Thus, they saved everyone on the island, no matter what their motives and no matter who would have deployed. Everyone is now safer.
Nobody is arguing that disabling that gas was a bad thing. My point and the point of others is that they disabled the delivery system they did it to help their people, to make them safer in case of some kind of large scale attack on the island. So at the moment the losties are safer. But my impression is that the losties are in the way of the freighties ultimate plans whatever they may be and will be killed if it means the freighties accomplishing their mission.

Nobody is arguing that disabling that gas was a bad thing.

What struck me was that whoever engineered that gas system, and whoever was prepared to use it, is a very bad man (I'm looking at you, Ben).

Someone seems prepared to kill everyone on the island, including their own people, to stop an invasion.

Hey, I just remembered - didn't Saddam gas Sayid's village?

My thinking is that since they were looking for Ben specifically, they were concerned that he would release the gas. We've already seen that Ben has an unnatural devotion to the island itself. And if Ben is really communicating somehow with the rest of the Others, he wanted Juliet to kill Daniel & Charlotte, which would have allowed the gas to be released prematurely, or, if she got there in enough time, would have kept the gas stored for later use.

Seems to me that Ben likes having that gas in his arsenal to destroy whoever would be a blight on the island - Widmore, the Losties, the Freighties - anyone. I bet the "Temple" where the rest of his people are is underground.

When it comes down to it, there was a facility that was capable of flooding the island with lethal gas (which makes no sense, but still).

Makes no sense? Did the concept of "mutually assured destruction" make sense? If you're too young to remember the Cold War, go out and rent "Dr. Strangelove"! That wasn't fiction, either, that was reality!!! (I mean the Cold War wasn't fiction, of course -- "Dr. Strangelove" definitely was...)

- mnw

What struck me was that whoever engineered that gas system, and whoever was prepared to use it, is a very bad man (I'm looking at you, Ben).

Someone seems prepared to kill everyone on the island, including their own people, to stop an invasion.

Hey, I just remembered - didn't Saddam gas Sayid's village?
My question is was the gas delivery system designed by the Dharma Initiative as a last ditch weapon against the hostiles or was it a part of the power station which Ben figured out how to use as a weapon? I could see it both ways, the Dharma Initiative has been portrayed as a little creepy and two faced, Roger Linus didn't expect to be shot at or be stuck on the island for 30+ years. I could also see Ben figuring out a way to turn a power station into a weapon.

this might interest y'all from wikipedia :
The sulfur mustards, of which mustard gas is a member, are a class of related cytotoxic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytotoxic), vesicant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesicant) chemical warfare agents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_warfare_agent) with the ability to form large blisters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blister) on exposed skin. In their pure form most sulfur mustards are colorless, odorless, viscous liquids at room temperature. When used as warfare agents they are usually yellow-brown in color and have an odor resembling mustard plants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_plant), garlic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garlic) or horseradish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseradish), hence the trivial name. The name originally assigned by the German Empire was "Lost", referring to the individuals Lommel and Steinkopf, who first proposed the military use of Sulfur Mustard to the German Imperial General Staff.
Sulfur mustards are relatives of "mustard gas" (bis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis)(2-chloroethyl) sulfide).

and

"At very high concentrations, if inhaled, it causes bleeding and blistering within the respiratory system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiratory_system), - sounds like Des

and

there have been experimental cases in humans where the patient has suffered miosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miosis), or pinpointing of pupils - sounds like the eyes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_gas

Makes no sense? Did the concept of "mutually assured destruction" make sense? If you're too young to remember the Cold War, go out and rent "Dr. Strangelove"! That wasn't fiction, either, that was reality!!! (I mean the Cold War wasn't fiction, of course -- "Dr. Strangelove" definitely was...)- mnw

Actually, I meant being able to gas the entire island makes no sense, as the gas could not possibly be delivered so as not to dissipate before doing its job. At least, I can't think of a way.

You're too kind, Wayne, but I do remember the MAD old days. Duck and cover!

As I understood...Farady was rendering the chemical inert so that Ben could not later release it to kill everyone on the island. Does Daniel know/see the future?

The first part is what I thought was happening. Did Daniel see the future? Doubtful. He was probably just following orders. Charlotte on the other hand could have some other motive.