He wants to keep the secrets of the island out of public view...he wants to share with Locke the secrets of the island...

Well, of course, I'm sticking to my guns that Ben and his group ARE the "good guys." :biggrin:

Widmore is the truly evil one.

I disagree Ben is just giving out bits and pieces of information as it serves his purpose. We still don't know the whole story.l

I keep flip-flopping back and forth on whether or not I believe Ben's story. I want to believe he's good, but so many things make it a hard pill to swallow. I still am fascinated by his character either way and think he's one of the most interesting aspects of the show.

I think Ben thinks he is a good guy but also that he will do anything to protect the island. I think he sometimes does things that are "bad" with the best intentions!

No, he's a megalomaniac who uses and abuses people and wants to control and exploit the island for his own purposes.
Widmore may or may not be a 'bad" guy, but Ben's true colors showed tonight. No decent leader - or man - would have done what we saw him do in this episode. There was no ambiguity at all. The ends do NOT justify the means he used...

I think Ben says just enough to get what he wants, I also think he is THE master manipulator, but somehow Locke seems extra susceptible.

Yes,and he's just tried to gas our Losties.
Lots of lying and deceiving....just like the real world.
Can't say i can really blame him for wanting to protect the island.....
He's a master brain washer.Total nutcase IMO.

I think Ben wants the Island for himself totally and will stop at nothing to secure his
place there. Maybe Widmore wants in on the action or maybe he just wants to bring
Ben to justice for something Ben did, or both!

Locke is again trusting Ben, even when Ben thought he killed Locke over jealously of
Jacob. I think Ben has Jacob trapped there somehow and he feared Locke would do
something to threaten that set up. I don't see Ben as a good guy but I do think the
abusive treatment by his father, messed him up, then the rest played out as it is.

I wonder if Jacob was the Ben, Ben is now. Someone was the boss over the Island
back then... and it was a secret Island then.... so maybe Ben took control and wants
to keep control, no matter what.

Ben is EVIL plain and simple. His motives may be the right ones but how he accomplishes them are evil. The hostiles, i.e the original Other's (Richard and gang) are probobly the good ones. Ben is evil and is out for himself and is doing what's best for him.

Yes,and he's just tried to gas our Losties.
Lots of lying and deceiving....just like the real world.
Can't say i can really blame him for wanting to protect the island.....
He's a master brain washer.Total nutcase IMO.

What I didn't get was, if Faraday and Charlotte were trying to shut of the gas, who was it that released it? Harper, I guess?

By the end of season six, Ben will have turned out to be the white knight who has saved humanity through his often unusual actions. It'll be the greatest "holy ****!!!" moment in the history of television and will have fans scrambling to go back & watch the entire series over through a different lens.

That is all. Discuss.

I think that would be an incredible piece of writing and incredible planning on the part of the team.

Let's hope for something that amazing. Is it time for the Emmy's yet?

I'm not sure...lol
But i have to admit that i would love that ending! I love Ben and every time we see him acting badly i'm frustrated by the scenarists... lol for example when i first saw The man behind the curtain i was devastated lol the kid they choose was so cute and the way it ended so horrible...and then yesterday he only has to say "i love you" to Juliet and he said" you're mine" i was very angry at the scenarists! lol

and ben was really jacob all along...

Of course, it wouldn't be a "HOLY S***!" moment for us. We're already discussing it! :biggrin:

At this point, I see Ben as a spoiled 12 year old who is acting more to protect his own interest in the island then to protect the island itself or humanity at large. He treats the island as his personal kingdom, and those on it as subject to his whim. If he is in any way acting to protect the power of the island from some nefarious outside purpose, it is because to do so serves his own needs.

I'm 100% convinced that Ben is *not* a good guy for this reason: He *enjoys* inflicting human suffering. I thought that was the ultimate "reveal" within the big reveal of the Economist, the way he said to Sayid "Are you crying because it hurts or you were stupid enough to actually care for her?" It's total playground bully stuff. Sayid is hurting, and Ben is getting off on it. Also, you can see hints of it in S3, the way he says to Juliet "I'll do what I always do, find out what motivates him and use it against him." And the whole way he totally loses it in "The Other Woman" and screams to Juliet "You're Mine!" (And the small matter of murdering his father and hundreds of other people).

Ben's job description, his function on the island, may be to be the ultimate good guy. But he himself is a bad egg.

I've thought for a while now that a great analog for Ben is Emporer Palpatine. On the surface he's acting in the interest of the Republic, but ultimately he's just manipulating everyone around him for his own power (furthering this analogy, Sayid is his Sith Apprentice. But don't worry, there is still good in him. I can feel it. It's just that, the day he started trusting Ben is the day he sold his soul :biggrin: )

There is no good deed, including saving all humanity, that could transform Ben into a "good guy".

I think he is going to end up being the good guy and that everything creepy he's done he's done for a reason.

Sure Ben's a good guy. Darlton will probably have to kill him because of (you) mediocrities at best who like to see things black and white (I mean, as long as Sawyer's hot, it doesn't matter that he killed people simply out of spite, oh, sure, yeah)...But that might as well be what will make The best show in history of Television into A good Hollywood drama on Television
. I am already sorry.

I think Ben's intentions with the island can MAYBE be considered "good" when it comes to ultimate goal but clearly he is unstable in his own way and does enjoy manipulating and creating suffering for people. But i do think that Richard and the others are ultimately the good guys and have JUST the islands intentions in mind. They dont care about money or things like Juliet having a crush on Jack or even that much about woman and the issue with birth. There is something much more pure for them to fight for and i think Ben is not 100% with that agenda. He's to selfish.

I'm 100% convinced that Ben is *not* a good guy for this reason: He *enjoys* inflicting human suffering. I thought that was the ultimate "reveal" within the big reveal of the Economist, the way he said to Sayid "Are you crying because it hurts or you were stupid enough to actually care for her?" It's total playground bully stuff. Sayid is hurting, and Ben is getting off on it. Also, you can see hints of it in S3, the way he says to Juliet "I'll do what I always do, find out what motivates him and use it against him." And the whole way he totally loses it in "The Other Woman" and screams to Juliet "You're Mine!" (And the small matter of murdering his father and hundreds of other people).

Ben's job description, his function on the island, may be to be the ultimate good guy. But he himself is a bad egg.

I've thought for a while now that a great analog for Ben is Emporer Palpatine. On the surface he's acting in the interest of the Republic, but ultimately he's just manipulating everyone around him for his own power (furthering this analogy, Sayid is his Sith Apprentice. But don't worry, there is still good in him. I can feel it. It's just that, the day he started trusting Ben is the day he sold his soul :biggrin: )

:hesaid:

I can't believe there are people who really think Ben could end up being a "good" guy? He slaughtered the entire Dharma community!

:hesaid:

I can't believe there are people who really think Ben could end up being a "good" guy? He slaughtered the entire Dharma community!

The fact that it is right now so unbelievable to the viewer is what makes the possibility of it so delicious. Whatever the reality turns out to be (and it may not be this, I'll admit!), it's going to be something you never EVER saw coming. That's the genius of TPTB.

Ben's quote "we're the good guys" has always stuck with me as something we'll be able to revisit later on.

The slaughter of the Dharma people & his father could be justifiable/explainable if it turns out that Dharma was not a merry, innocent band of scientists but rather an evil group threatening the existence of humanity. We just don't know that answer yet.

"Good" and "bad" are intrinsically subjective ideas. That said, I don't believe Ben is "good" in the traditional sense of the word. His actions might ultimately help "The Good Side" (The Islanders?), but...well, he's a pretty evil dude.:dgrin:

The fact that it is right now so unbelievable to the viewer is what makes the possibility of it so delicious. Whatever the reality turns out to be (and it may not be this, I'll admit!), it's going to be something you never EVER saw coming. That's the genius of TPTB.

Ben's quote "we're the good guys" has always stuck with me as something we'll be able to revisit later on.

The slaughter of the Dharma people & his father could be justifiable/explainable if it turns out that Dharma was not a merry, innocent band of scientists but rather an evil group threatening the existence of humanity. We just don't know that answer yet.

i like the way you think!:biggrin:
Another weird sentence from Ben to Jack: "i don't want you to save me i want you to want to save me" :rolleyes: