It sucks that he died, but come off this conspiracy rubbish.

Guess what Charlie's grave will say?
9/22/04

and Nikki?
9/22/04

and Boone?
9/22/04

and everyone else?
9/22/04

sucks.

But so will everyone's and we know there are still some people alive on the Island - that's why Jack wants to go back.

He may be alive along with a whole buch of other people we know there are still people who stayed on the island.

Yes, I agree. Jin is definitely still alive on the island. For some reason he stayed and Sun left. If he had died at some later date, why wouldn't they say that on his headstone?

According to the world everyone except for the Oceanic 6 died in that crash in September 2004. But Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sun know better.

I hope he is still alive. But if he were, why go to visit the grave?

I hope he is still alive. But if he were, why go to visit the grave?

That's what I was wondering, but I guess if he is still on the island, he would miss the birth of his daughter, and she would miss him. I thought it was grief, but maybe she just really misses him, and has to lie along with the other O6.

I hope he is still alive. But if he were, why go to visit the grave?

One possibility is that Sun may not know if he's still alive. If he was still alive when she left, we have yet to see what status the other Losties were in when she left. It could just be where she feels closest to him.

Then again, maybe he did die sometime before she left - hard to say.

Either way, we know for sure he didn't, at least as of yet, make it off the Island.

I hope he is still alive. But if he were, why go to visit the grave?

1. She does miss him
2. To maintain the cover story it would be expected for a grieving widow to visit her husband's monument.

I kind of took the visiting of the grave as something for the benefit of the viewer and not necessarily that he was dead. They needed some way to illustrate to the viewer that he wasn't there and was "dead" and that scene at the grave yard had a lot more emotional impact than Sun telling Hurley that she misses Jin.

I hope he is still alive. But if he were, why go to visit the grave?

The Oceanic 6 seem to be quite the celebrities in the future, maybe they are assuming that they're being watched from afar? I don't know, but I want Jin to be alive so that's what I'm going with. ;) Sorry japhy.

Major flawed logic: We saw Charlie and Nikki and Boone die. We haven't seen Jin die. His death, so far, is completely up in the air.

I kind of took the visiting of the grave as something for the benefit of the viewer and not necessarily that he was dead. They needed some way to illustrate to the viewer that he wasn't there and was "dead" and that scene at the grave yard had a lot more emotional impact than Sun telling Hurley that she misses Jin.
I agree with this. Also, I think with Sun's wealthy family, she would be forced or expected to have a grave on the family plot. Keep up appearances.

It is my belief Jin is alive.

Also (about preview for next week)

It would be too obvious who the 'someone is going to die' would be.

Why would they kill of Jin the very moment he begins speaking English in complete sentences? He's alive my friend. Stop pretending he's dead.

I kind of took the visiting of the grave as something for the benefit of the viewer and not necessarily that he was dead. They needed some way to illustrate to the viewer that he wasn't there and was "dead" and that scene at the grave yard had a lot more emotional impact than Sun telling Hurley that she misses Jin.

Yup. And I think that the TPTB were very deliberate in how they wrote the dialog between Sun and Hurley, and Sun and Jin('s grave). Not once was it actually said that he was dead, even after the reveal of the headstone (at which point the ruse for the sake of the audience was over).

Its time thing. Sun thinks Jin is dead.

I'm very sad about it, but I'm afraid he really is dead. Ever since the hatch blew up, I've been of the mind that things are more straightforward than we make them. So sad...

What did I miss while watching the episode?
People seem to think Jin is actually dead. What makes people believe this?
Is it because Sun apparently believes Jin is dead?
Um... Wasn't Jin clearly buying two panda bears, and very much alive? Because that's what I saw.
Someone please explain what I didn't get...

What did I miss while watching the episode?
People seem to think Jin is actually dead. What makes people believe this?
Is it because Sun apparently believes Jin is dead?
Um... Wasn't Jin clearly buying two panda bears, and very much alive? Because that's what I saw.
Someone please explain what I didn't get...

The panda bear scene was a flashBACK. Sun having the baby was a flashFORWARD.

We were meant to think that he was in the future, buying the panda for Sun, but it was actually in the past, right after he'd married Sun, BEFORE they ended up on the island.

D'oh! It's all been cleared up for me as I've read other threads.

Sorry, I have to watch each week's episode while I'm at work (which is a little distracting, dang it!), and then watch it a second and third time at home.

I should refrain from posting until I've watched each episode a few times. My apologies.

I kind of took the visiting of the grave as something for the benefit of the viewer and not necessarily that he was dead. They needed some way to illustrate to the viewer that he wasn't there and was "dead" and that scene at the grave yard had a lot more emotional impact than Sun telling Hurley that she misses Jin.Boy I hope you're right! I was crying so hard thinking he was dead I didn't even notice the date.

Major flawed logic: We saw Charlie and Nikki and Boone die. We haven't seen Jin die. His death, so far, is completely up in the air.So glad I found this thread (though I don't think these responses were what the OP intended ;). I feel much better now.

Why would they kill of Jin the very moment he begins speaking English in complete sentences? He's alive my friend. Stop pretending he's dead.:biglaugh: And really thanks for that! I needed a big smile after tonight's ep! :hug:

One possibility is that Sun may not know if he's still alive. If he was still alive when she left, we have yet to see what status the other Losties were in when she left. It could just be where she feels closest to him.

Then again, maybe he did die sometime before she left - hard to say.

Either way, we know for sure he didn't, at least as of yet, make it off the Island.

Yes! Well said.... *BUT*... Here's what's throwing me for a loop. Didn't the previews say we would find out the final two of the oceanic 6 tonight?

If Jin didn't make it off the island - whether he actually died on the island or that's just part of the cover story - then he's *not* part of the O6. Does that mean the publicity about the final 2 in the O6 being revealed was just a hoax to perpetuate the illusion that Jin's FB's were actually FF's? If so, who's the final member of the O6?

- It *can't* be Aaron... he wasn't on the plane.
- It *can't* be Ji Yeon (same reason)
- there's just no way it's Michael or Walt...

Who is it?

Yes! Well said.... *BUT*... Here's what's throwing me for a loop. Didn't the previews say we would find out the final two of the oceanic 6 tonight?

If Jin didn't make it off the island - whether he actually died on the island or that's just part of the cover story - then he's *not* part of the O6. Does that mean the publicity about the final 2 in the O6 being revealed was just a hoax to perpetuate the illusion that Jin's FB's were actually FF's? If so, who's the final member of the O6?

- It *can't* be Aaron... he wasn't on the plane.
- It *can't* be Ji Yeon (same reason)
- there's just no way it's Michael or Walt...

Who is it?


I don't really see why it couldn't be either Michael or Walt. Michael being in that coffin would definitely explain why no one else went, especially Hurley.

Aaron *was* on the plane....

Here is my 2 cents.

1) Jin is not dead, since we see a flash forward of him @ a hospital. In the show the store clerk offers Jin a dragon, and says, "In the year of the dragon, it'll bring good luck". The last year of the dragon was 2000. The next one will be in 2012. Notice, how the store clerk says, ".. IN the....", so it's not the year of the dragon yet. So, it's 2011! Therefore this is a flash forward for the last season.

2)Jin is working for Ben. (assumption). I have a theory going that Ben will try to start an international conflict between U.S. and China (see lost general theories) leading to the world ending scenario as predicted by the Valenzetti equation.

3)The tombstone has Jin's death as 2004-9-22 (date of the crash) for two reasons.
i)Jin's death is staged to be consistent with the Oceanic 6 story. Jin will use his Paik connections to make contact with Chinese authorities, and the the underworld.
ii)Paik has to believe Jin is dead, or else Jin couldn't carry out Ben's plans.

Of course Jin is still alive! What better reason for Sun to eventually agree to go back to the Island? Families are separated....Claire from Aaron and Jin from Sun.

Actually, it would be so believable that Jin sent Sun ahead on the first group to be "rescued" with the belief that they will return for more Losties. But alas, the first 6 out probably via heliocopter are the only ones who get to leave. Everything Jin does he does for Sun. He loves her so.

And Sun misses him as she says graveside so much....she like the other O6 members have to lie to protect those that got left behind.

Here is my 2 cents.

1) Jin is not dead, since we see a flash forward of him @ a hospital. In the show the store clerk offers Jin a dragon, and says, "In the year of the dragon, it'll bring good luck". The last year of the dragon was 2000. The next one will be in 2012. Notice, how the store clerk says, ".. IN the....", so it's not the year of the dragon yet. So, it's 2011! Therefore this is a flash forward for the last season.

2)Jin is working for Ben. (assumption). I have a theory going that Ben will try to start an international conflict between U.S. and China (see lost general theories) leading to the world ending scenario as predicted by the Valenzetti equation.

3)The tombstone has Jin's death as 2004-9-22 (date of the crash) for two reasons.
i)Jin's death is staged to be consistent with the Oceanic 6 story. Jin will use his Paik connections to make contact with Chinese authorities, and the the underworld.
ii)Paik has to believe Jin is dead, or else Jin couldn't carry out Ben's plans.

1. That was a flashback it happened in 2000. He mentioned at the hospital he had only been married for 2 months. Why would Sun be having her baby in 2011? Was she pregnant for 7 years?

2. Assume away, but Jin is not is China- he may not be dead but at the moment options are dead or on the island.

3. See 1 and 2

It sucks that he died, but come off this conspiracy rubbish.

Guess what Charlie's grave will say?
9/22/04

and Nikki?
9/22/04

and Boone?
9/22/04

and everyone else?
9/22/04

sucks.

Charlie - we saw die

Nikki - we saw die and have a body

Boone - we saw die and have a body

Jin - we never saw die, and never saw his body. Completely different situation IMO.

1. That was a flashback it happened in 2000. He mentioned at the hospital he had only been married for 2 months. Why would Sun be having her baby in 2011? Was she pregnant for 7 years?

2. Assume away, but Jin is not is China- he may not be dead but at the moment options are dead or on the island.

3. See 1 and 2


I believe there were 2 FF. A JIn FF in 2011, and a Sun FF in ?.

Also, remember Jin was in "management training with Paik for 6 months after the marriage" {cite:http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jin}. This was waaay before Sun asked for the loan for her father, and Paik forced Jin to be an enforcer for him. Therefore, 2 months into the marriage, Jin WAS NOT an enforcer for Paik. So why would he be at the hospital as a proxy for Paik?

I can only assume that Jin's comment about being married for only 2 month was to not raise the suspicion of the nurse, and for the writer to fool us with more ambiguities.
100%
I believe there were 2 FF. A JIn FF in 2011, and a Sun FF in ?.

Also, remember Jin was in "management training with Paik for 6 months after the marriage" {cite:http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jin}. This was waaay before Sun asked for the loan for her father, and Paik forced Jin to be an enforcer for him. Therefore, 2 months into the marriage, Jin WAS NOT an enforcer for Paik. So why would he be at the hospital as a proxy for Paik?

I can only assume that Jin's comment about being married for only 2 month was to not raise the suspicion of the nurse, and for the writer to fool us with more ambiguities.

I wanted to clarify by saying Jin in 2011 is using Paik's stature to get close to people of influence, and set up the climax for the final season.

I believe there were 2 FF. A JIn FF in 2011, and a Sun FF in ?.

Also, remember Jin was in "management training with Paik for 6 months after the marriage" {cite:http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jin}. This was waaay before Sun asked for the loan for her father, and Paik forced Jin to be an enforcer for him. Therefore, 2 months into the marriage, Jin WAS NOT an enforcer for Paik. So why would he be at the hospital as a proxy for Paik?

I can only assume that Jin's comment about being married for only 2 month was to not raise the suspicion of the nurse, and for the writer to fool us with more ambiguities.
100%


I wanted to clarify by saying Jin in 2011 is using Paik's stature to get close to people of influence, and set up the climax for the final season.

You would think then that Jin's phone would have been a little more sleeker, no? Not made to look like a phone from late 90's or early 2000's. But that phone may have been put in their deliberately to mess with our minds right? To make us think it was a flashback?;)

Near the beginning of this whole "Oceanic 6" thing starting, we started trying to guess and count up who the six would be. Well right then I thought "wouldn't it be awful if Sun gets off, but Jin doesn't." I think that is what has happened here. We've got Jin back on the island with everyone having to pretend they know he's dead. Although, depending on how they left, for all they know he *is* dead.

I really don't think this is ridiculous at all... There is simply no reason, with what we know, to believe that Jin will die.