that's the first i thought off, when i watched it,

I dunno why he would do that, maybe he's on the run from Widmore?

I at first thought he faked it too (now I'm just confused) and I thought he did because of Sun's dad. Maybe Sun talking to Jin's grave was just to throw off Hurley.

I believe we were watching a Jin flashback, and a Sun flashforward.

He seemed to still be working for Mr. Paik, who is Sun's father, right? I can't believe he could go back to work for his father-in-law after faking his own death . . . this must be the past. Remember, he said he had only been married for two months.

I believe we were watching a Jin flashback, and a Sun flashforward.


I agree with you, but I think the OP means that Jin isn't really in that grave, unless I am misunderstanding the OP.

Of course Jin isn't in that grave. Although it's been mentioned a hundred times over, the date of death on the tombstone is the same as the date that the plane crashed on the island. So either Jin is alive and still on the island, or he dies on the island.

Jin's death is faked and Mr. Paik has something to do with this, though I am not sure what.

Some questions I have seen:

Q: Why would Jin fake his death?
A: He said he would do anything for the sake of Sun and the baby, perhaps it was necessary.

Q: Why would Hurley and Sun go to the tombstone?
A: It is a representation to Sun of what he sacrificed (a life without her and their baby) to ensure their safety, a place were she could still talk to him. Notice that no where did they actually say he is dead.

Q: Why would he go back to work for Mr. Paik?
A: Once again, he would do anything for Sun. Also, why would Hurley go into a mental institution, why would Jack be an alcoholic and drug addict, or why would Sayid be a murderer for Ben? They become what they don't want to be when they leave the island. When on the island they have escaped this horrible life.

Q: Why would Jin say he was only married for 2 months?
A: Part of the cover-up as he would need to assume another identity and this would be a part of that identity.

I hope I answered most questions, but if there are more please ask them. Also what are your thoughts on these explanations?

Of course Jin isn't in that grave. Although it's been mentioned a hundred times over, the date of death on the tombstone is the same as the date that the plane crashed on the island. So either Jin is alive and still on the island, or he dies on the island.
Exactly! Or he died on the freighter protecting Sun and the other Losties. I did get the impression that Jin was definitely dead in the flashforward, but now I am wondering if Sun was not grieving but just crying because she missed Jin so much who could be stil alive on the island.
So if Jin wasn't the sixth member of the Oceanic Six, who is?

Hmm, I'm just not explaining myself right. I guess what I mean is, he isn't in the grave, but he isn't dead either.

I'm confused? Who was he trying to visit? Also, didn't the producers say that they don't throw flashbacks and flashforwards in one episode simultaneously?

Wasn't Jin married to someone else in the flash? I couldn't tell if it was Sun, it happened so fast.

Q: Why would Jin fake his death?
A: He didn't.


Q: Why would Hurley and Sun go to the tombstone?
A: To mourn his death/him being on the island still


Q: Why would he go back to work for Mr. Paik?
A: He didn't. That was a flashback to 2001.


Q: Why would Jin say he was only married for 2 months?
A: Because it was a flashback. From 2001.
100%
Scratch that, Jin's flashback was likely in 2000. It didn't look like winter.

Q: Why would Jin fake his death?
A: He didn't.


Q: Why would Hurley and Sun go to the tombstone?
A: To mourn his death/him being on the island still


Q: Why would he go back to work for Mr. Paik?
A: He didn't. That was a flashback to 2001.


Q: Why would Jin say he was only married for 2 months?
A: Because it was a flashback. From 2001.
100%
Scratch that, Jin's flashback was likely in 2000. It didn't look like winter.

My thoughts, exactly.

Q: Why would Jin fake his death?
A: He didn't.


Q: Why would Hurley and Sun go to the tombstone?
A: To mourn his death/him being on the island still


Q: Why would he go back to work for Mr. Paik?
A: He didn't. That was a flashback to 2001.


Q: Why would Jin say he was only married for 2 months?
A: Because it was a flashback. From 2001.
100%
Scratch that, Jin's flashback was likely in 2000. It didn't look like winter.

Thank you for supporting your responses. /sarcasm

Well, unless Sun was pregnant for 8 years and is having her baby in 2012, then Jin's flash was a flashback. The store owner mentions that it's the year of the dragon when he offers the dragon to Jin. The year of the dragon last occured from Feb 5 2000 - Jan 23 2001. And it doesnt occur again until 2012.

I don't recall, does he say it is the year of the Dragon, or does he merely say year of the dragon was good luck when showing him the dragon? If it is the latter, then he would have said it just to get him to buy the dragon (a selling point) over the bear that was reserved.

He said year of the dragon. Which makes sense because Jin was working for Paik and he was newly married to Sun at that time. They tried to spell it out for you to connect the dots that it was a flash back.

Him just saying "Year of the Dragon" makes it sound more like a selling point, not that it is actually the year of the dragon. Sorry, still not convinced.

He said it was the year of the dragon.

I'm going to have to side with those thinking it's a Jin flashback and Sun flash-forward. There's some logical inconsistencies if it were all flash-forward ... I'm working on explaining why but the year of the dragon thing was one factor.

And there's no rule stating that TPTB has to stick to only showing us off island ff's from here on out, right? They're like totally messing with us (and I don't mind at all)

It would help if someone could translate the Korean on Jin's tombstone for us.

So if Jin wasn't the sixth member of the Oceanic Six, who is?

Sun is the sixth member...
We saw the first one in the very first flash forward at the end of last season.

It's who ever was in that darn coffin.

1. Jack 2. Kate 3. Hurly 4.Sun 5.Sayid 6.Casket person :confused:

I'm confused? Who was he trying to visit? Also, didn't the producers say that they don't throw flashbacks and flashforwards in one episode simultaneously?

Wasn't Jin married to someone else in the flash? I couldn't tell if it was Sun, it happened so fast.He was visiting someone important to Paik's business (that's why he told the body guard something like they looked forward to business with China.

No, he was married to Sun but no need to mention her name because we already know he was married to her after he went to work for her father (not that he married her after but while he worked for Paik he was married to Sun).

Q: Why would Jin fake his death?
A: He didn't.

Q: Why would Hurley and Sun go to the tombstone?
A: To mourn his death/him being on the island still

Q: Why would he go back to work for Mr. Paik?
A: He didn't. That was a flashback to 2001.

Q: Why would Jin say he was only married for 2 months?
A: Because it was a flashback. From 2001.
100%
Scratch that, Jin's flashback was likely in 2000. It didn't look like winter.All the right answers IMO. :biggrin:

Well, unless Sun was pregnant for 8 years and is having her baby in 2012, then Jin's flash was a flashback. The store owner mentions that it's the year of the dragon when he offers the dragon to Jin. The year of the dragon last occured from Feb 5 2000 - Jan 23 2001. And it doesnt occur again until 2012.It was the year of the dragon and good catch on that! It was an excellent hint as to Jin's story being in the past and Sun's in the future.

Him just saying "Year of the Dragon" makes it sound more like a selling point, not that it is actually the year of the dragon. Sorry, still not convinced.We have to understand that they are in Korea so spelling out "This is the year of the dragon" isn't necessary. They know what year it is and and simply saying "Year of the Dragon" is enough when any Korean would know what that means ... that they are in the year of the dragon. Sure they could have spelled it out better but this is Lost and we're expected to do some research after all. ;)
Sun is the sixth member...
We saw the first one in the very first flash forward at the end of last season.

It's who ever was in that darn coffin.

1. Jack 2. Kate 3. Hurly 4.Sun 5.Sayid 6.Casket person :confused:That makes sense to me but I'm not totally positive yet. It could be Aaron or the person in the casket (who I think will turn out to be Michael). I'm just happy that we will know by the end of this season.

Sun is the sixth member...
We saw the first one in the very first flash forward at the end of last season.

It's who ever was in that darn coffin.

1. Jack 2. Kate 3. Hurly 4.Sun 5.Sayid 6.Casket person :confused:

Aaron is one of the 6.

Him just saying "Year of the Dragon" makes it sound more like a selling point, not that it is actually the year of the dragon. Sorry, still not convinced.

Why would he be selling him something that would be good luck 7 years from now?

Why would Jin, working for one of the most powerful men in the world, have a crappy cell phone?

Why would he be selling him something that would be good luck 7 years from now?



The dragon was what was lucky.

The dragon was what was lucky.But it would only be considered lucky within its own year.

I think it's simple. Jin worked for Paik during the year of the dragon and the store keeper wanting to sell him the dragon and saying "year of the dragon" was to let us know it was a flash back. Sometimes things (even on Lost) are just what they appear to be. :)

Aaron is one of the 6.

I thought Damon/Carlton said in a podcast that Aaron was not one of the six...

I thought Damon/Carlton said in a podcast that Aaron was not one of the six...
I don't know about that but (I think) in TV Guide they said that they weren't going to reveal if he was or wasn't just yet.

Just watched the part were he tries to sell the dragon again. He say "In the year of the Dragon it will bring good luck." So he never came close to saying it was the year of the dragon. To those who said why would he sell something that would be lucky in seven years, I say the guy was seeing that Jin was becoming angry and just wanted to get him out of there. Anyone who has worked in retail would know what an angry customer can be like.

Exactly! Or he died on the freighter protecting Sun and the other Losties. I did get the impression that Jin was definitely dead in the flashforward, but now I am wondering if Sun was not grieving but just crying because she missed Jin so much who could be stil alive on the island.
So if Jin wasn't the sixth member of the Oceanic Six, who is?

At first I thought Jin was dead. But now I keep thinking he might still be on the island with all the others that didn't return. Sun's crying could have been because she was just missing him.

Aaron is #6.

Just watched the part were he tries to sell the dragon again. He say "In the year of the Dragon it will bring good luck." So he never came close to saying it was the year of the dragon. To those who said why would he sell something that would be lucky in seven years, I say the guy was seeing that Jin was becoming angry and just wanted to get him out of there. Anyone who has worked in retail would know what an angry customer can be like.

Yes yes yes. For everyone who thinks the store clerk said 'it's the year of the dragon,' you are mistaken. He said 'In the year of the Dragon it will bring good luck."

I just posted in another thread that Pandas are a symbol of survival. Also, I read on the board that Sun was watching an excerpt of Expose during this episode. Both of those things might suggest that Jin isn't really dead.

From the lost experience we know that there is a link between Paik and Widmore. Perhaps Jin on learning this went onto bens side( perhaps) or is on his own, to try and take down Paik for his involvement in their lives and to perhaps stop his ambitions for the island?

I don't think Paik had a particularly strong love for Jin. He didn't seem particularly thrilled that his daughter was marrying him, and he certainly didn't give him a "dream job". Would Paik be upset if suddenly Jin was out of the picture? Probably not.

This is an interesting thought. I think Jin is still alive and we sure haven't heard much about Paik in a while, so I could see this happening. It would be an interesting plot twist.

Well, the question would be, who should Jin "fake" his death from?

His wife and the other Oceanic Six? The world? All of them?

It's quite possible that he remained back on the island for whatever reason, and Sun and the other O6 simply claim he's dead, like they do with all the other Losties.

Didn't Jin get a death threat in the men's room in the Sydney airport, that he had to deliver the watch to somebody in Los Angeles or else? I don't remember if it was a death threat but it was a dire enough message to unsettle him that much when he saw Michael wearing the watch back in season one.

I think it is possible that Jin stays behind on the island because he's a dead man if he goes back home; whereas Sun has to leave the island because she and her baby are dead if she stays.

It's heartbreaking either way, whether Jin has to stay behind or whether he dies, but I'm hoping he stays behind because then there is always hope for a reunion.

And why wasn't Sun's father anywhere in this last episode? You'd think we'd have seen him getting a phone call at least. Interesting....

This could tie in with the fact that Sun's jewelry bag was labeled with a different name. Maybe she is using an alias now, to hide from her father. Also, living the lie that Jin's dead, so Paik won't go hunt him down, looking for the watch, and kill him.

I have wondered if when the 6 leave the island, it is with the understanding that they will go for help and send someone back for the others. Then when they get to civilization, the big coverup begins, with the fake crash scenerio and the story that no one is left alive. If they tell, the islanders will die.

Sun has more to lose than the other (adult) 4. It's her husband she left behind. And she, unlike the others, has a powerful father with the means to find the island. Afraid her father will see through her lies, she takes an alias in hopes to stay hidden from him and protect Jin.

Just a thought.

This could tie in with the fact that Sun's jewelry bag was labeled with a different name. Maybe she is using an alias now, to hide from her father. Also, living the lie that Jin's dead, so Paik won't go hunt him down, looking for the watch, and kill him.

How can Sun be living under an alias when she is one of the Oceanic Six, who are considered celebrities? The nurse instantly recognized. I doubt she could present herself to the public under a different name and her father wouldn't recognize her upon seeing her on TV.

We've seen Hurley and Jack both mention that they have to get back to the island...we don't know if it is for a common reason or individual reasons. If it is for individual reasons, perhaps this will be Sun's motivation to get back to the island...to be with Jin

I don't think Sun was living under an alias. Like mentioned above, the nurse recognized her and they said her correct last name when they were delivering the baby.

Also, if Jin was still alive why would they be so unbelievably upset. Why would Hurley say "So you wanna go see him?"

Thought that I would bump this thread in light of the prop "goofs" that have been found.

Well, the question would be, who should Jin "fake" his death from?

His wife and the other Oceanic Six? The world? All of them?

It's quite possible that he remained back on the island for whatever reason, and Sun and the other O6 simply claim he's dead, like they do with all the other Losties.

Exactly! I am sure he wanted to get off the island and either he really did die, or for some reason they could not get anymore people off the island after one or 2 helicopter trips OR he stayed behind on purpose to ensure that Sun and the baby would get off the island- don't ask me to speculate the motive, that would be the job of the writers if they picked this scenario.

Sun is the sixth member...
We saw the first one in the very first flash forward at the end of last season.

It's who ever was in that darn coffin.

1. Jack 2. Kate 3. Hurly 4.Sun 5.Sayid 6.Casket person :confused:

I don't think the 6th is the one in the casket. The 6 are rich and celebrities. If one had died a lot of people would have came to the funeral.

What if when the original O6 boarded the rescue vessel, and planned for a return visit to get some others, Jin included, but they couldn't make it back for more survivors. So they make the cover story and Sun goes to her father about Jin being on the island. Paik, being the wealthy man he is and likely being connected to the island somehow, sends a team to go get Jin and only Jin. They return with him and as repayment he must work for Paik and obviously take on a new identity to keep the cover story true. He also likely would not see Sun very much, if at all.

How does that sound?

I can't buy that Jin is dead till I see a body. If Ben enlisted Sayid, a reluctance participant in violence, as a hit-man, how much more would he want to enlist a qualified hit-man like Jin? That's one point for him being alive and incognito on Ben's team.

What if when the original O6 boarded the rescue vessel, and planned for a return visit to get some others, Jin included, but they couldn't make it back for more survivors. So they make the cover story and Sun goes to her father about Jin being on the island. Paik, being the wealthy man he is and likely being connected to the island somehow, sends a team to go get Jin and only Jin. They return with him and as repayment he must work for Paik and obviously take on a new identity to keep the cover story true. He also likely would not see Sun very much, if at all.

How does that sound?

Not very convincing

What part do you find weak? Care to actually back up your statement?

Technically the "casket person" could be hurley or sayid, too.

Remember, in that flash forward ALL we saw was Jack and Kate... So we know its not one of them in the casket. Rumors have suggested the body is a male... .so could be any males of the remaining members of the O6. That flashforward obviously takes place later than the others we've seen. Why? Because in the oens this season, Jack has no willingness to go back, he gets his first notion of it from Hurley. He also has not yet grown a beard =P

Also. Jin was flashback, Sun flashforward. How are people still confused about this? It was so obvious when Jin showed up at a hospital in China. NOT in Korea, stating he was only married 2 months... AND made further clear when Sun/Hurely visited the gravestone. Whether or not Jin is dead on the island is another story, I for one can see him still being alive on the island. He certainly did not get off (or else the 'date' on the stone would read something other than 9/22/04). As for Hurely being there w/Sun... well, the man is rich, or did we forget? Surely a flight to Korea (not to mention they ALL have golden passes) and travel arrangements therein is nothing for a man of his wealth. Kinda sad though that the others didn't go.. I mean, would be a great confirmation to all those STILL questioning who the O6 actually are if all "6" were standing there mourning Jin w/Sun.

But this is Lost, haha.

I could see like Jin getting injured and at the last minute the helicopter had to leave... so maybe they *think* he's dead but he isnt...

Anyone else hope they get back? =D

I at first thought he faked it too (now I'm just confused) and I thought he did because of Sun's dad. Maybe Sun talking to Jin's grave was just to throw off Hurley.

Suns Dad. What I thought

TPTB stated the flashforwards are occurring in order, as not to confuse people. That's why the person in the casket can't be Jack, Ben, Sayid, Hurley or Kate because we saw each of them after the casket scene.

I think Jin had to fake his death after Mr. Paik's watch was thrown away (can't remember who threw it into the ocean.) He was supposed to deliver it to the United States and there may have been more than one watch. What exactly are those watches? They can't be drugs. Also, Jin wanted to go to the United States.
The obit Jack (season 3 finale) was reading said a man died in a downtown Los Angeles apartment and you could see the man's name began with a 'J' but I thnk the next letter is 'a' or 'o'. The man in the coffin could be James Sawyer, John Locke, or even Jin. Maybe Jin was trying to hide from Paik because he would be killed for losing the watches and maybe Sun thinks he is okay but now he's dead.
This would seem to be one of the few ways of pulling together several lingering questions before next season.

Angurvadal

TPTB stated the flashforwards are occurring in order, as not to confuse people. That's why the person in the casket can't be Jack, Ben, Sayid, Hurley or Kate because we saw each of them after the casket scene.

TPTB has ways of toying with us.. I'm pretty sure they aren't lying but are not telling the entire truth,

They are in order but going backwards, therefore, Jack nor Kate are in the casket but any of the others could be.

Also, Why would Jack be trying to get back to the island in the first flash forward then totally be against it as when he spoke with Hurly?

I'm pretty sure they are going backwards

TPTB has ways of toying with us.. I'm pretty sure they aren't lying but are not telling the entire truth,

They are in order but going backwards, therefore, Jack nor Kate are in the casket but any of the others could be.

Also, Why would Jack be trying to get back to the island in the first flash forward then totally be against it as when he spoke with Hurly?

I'm pretty sure they are going backwards

If i remember correctly TPTB said that "within an episode" the flashbacks and/or flashforwards follow a chronological narrative. They are in sequence WITHIN an episode. They said this in response to the confusion in Sayid's flashback as to whether the Seychelles scene was before or after Berlin (not that it really matters either way). Ji Yeon played with that by tricking us into thinking we had 2 convergent flashforwards with the final realisation that Jin's was a flashback. I loved it.

I don't think the 6th is the one in the casket. The 6 are rich and celebrities. If one had died a lot of people would have came to the funeral.

and that is why there were so many seats set up yet to the surprise of the funeral director, no one came. Their 15 minutes of fame had been transferred to the new it people of the time.

and that is why there were so many seats set up yet to the surprise of the funeral director, no one came. Their 15 minutes of fame had been transferred to the new it people of the time.

Well before I type my next comment, I have to say I think that the last O6 is Michael, as well the person in the casket.

And aside from what you said, the other Oceanic 6 have no reason to go to the funeral if it is Michael, and plenty of reasons not to.

If i remember correctly TPTB said that "within an episode" the flashbacks and/or flashforwards follow a chronological narrative. They are in sequence WITHIN an episode. They said this in response to the confusion in Sayid's flashback as to whether the Seychelles scene was before or after Berlin (not that it really matters either way). Ji Yeon played with that by tricking us into thinking we had 2 convergent flashforwards with the final realisation that Jin's was a flashback. I loved it.

This is what I understood TPTB to be saying as well.

TPTB stated the flashforwards are occurring in order, as not to confuse people. That's why the person in the casket can't be Jack, Ben, Sayid, Hurley or Kate because we saw each of them after the casket scene.

They may be going in order either forwards or backwards, but they are all happening before the season finale of season 3.