On the island, Sun says "Sayid and Desmond have been gone 3 days".
Meanwhile, back on the freigher, Sayid tells Des "3 days ago I was in Locke's camp".

These two accounts don't sync up in time.
There's a 1 - 3 day difference between the island perspective and the freighter perspective.

It was confirmed a long time ago that there's a difference in time from on the island compared to off the island.

On the island, Sun says "Sayid and Desmond have been gone 3 days".
Meanwhile, back on the freigher, Sayid tells Des "3 days ago I was in Locke's camp".

These two accounts don't sync up in time.
There's a 1 - 3 day difference between the island perspective and the freighter perspective.

Yup, I too thought it was odd that they both referred to three days being past.

I think we are over-thinking it. One could be referring to 3 days, 20 hoursago, and the other could be referring to 2 days 20 hours ago. They could just be rounding for simplicity. Sayid and Desmond lost less than 24 hours when traveling to the freighter, as proved by the comment that they left near sundown and then it was the afternoon when they arrived. I guess it could go either way, but I think if time was different, it would be more obvious than plus/minus 8 hours or so.

On the island, Sun says "Sayid and Desmond have been gone 3 days".
Meanwhile, back on the freigher, Sayid tells Des "3 days ago I was in Locke's camp".

These two accounts don't sync up in time.
There's a 1 - 3 day difference between the island perspective and the freighter perspective.

You must've recently travelled from the island yourself, because you are like two weeks behind everyone else.

That's very funny...but I think lostmio is a genius!!! I read the lostmio thread on HOlmium, Entanglement and the Weirdest link and then read both Lynne McTaagart books suggested in the thread. WOW!!! I am still reeling and completely believe all of it. lostmio you have set me on the course I'm supposed to follow. Who knew an artsy gift girl could comprehend quantum anything? Lots of gratitude your way!

You must've recently travelled from the island yourself, because you are like two weeks behind everyone else.

LOL! Kinda harsh, but still, I have to admit I laughed.

It was confirmed a long time ago that there's a difference in time from on the island compared to off the island.

It was?

I know there is a time dilation if you travel in the anomaly, but as for time difference, it is the same day on the island as it is off.. If I am mistaken, point me to the post that discusses it

It was?

I know there is a time dilation if you travel in the anomaly, but as for time difference, it is the same day on the island as it is off.. If I am mistaken, point me to the post that discusses it

The time difference was because they traveled to the freighter. To Sayid the trip was like 20 minutes, not a day and a half. So to Sun Sayid was at Locke's camp something like 4 days ago. It isn't a constant difference from what I can tell.

yeah i think it has something to do with the theory of relativity and how there can be a difference in how you perceive time elapsing when you're moving and when you're observing the person moving. but i think the theory only applies to objects moving at the speed of light. i don't remember.

Don't forget, Sayid is still only speaking from what he has experienced, not from what the Island people have experienced.

yeah i think it has something to do with the theory of relativity and how there can be a difference in how you perceive time elapsing when you're moving and when you're observing the person moving. but i think the theory only applies to objects moving at the speed of light. i don't remember.
It applies at all speeds, not just at the speed of light. However, for slower speeds, the difference is miniscule.

In 1971, scientists took atomic clocks on airplanes and flew around the world twice, once eastward and once westward.

Compared against a stationary atomic clock, they lost 59 nanoseconds during their easward flight and gained 273 nanoseconds during their westward flight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment

I also thought this confirmed two weeks ago when Miles did his little rocket experiement.

I also thought this confirmed two weeks ago when Miles did his little rocket experiement.

:) Yes, of course it was. And it was confirmed again last week, when we found out that Sayid & Des boat time does not match up to Jack and Juliet island time. The time gap between the ship and the island has increased since the chopper trip.

Many of us realized months ago that there's "lost time" on the island and have posted about it in GT.

Yet there are still a number of posters who insist time is lost enroute to and from the island, but that ~somehow~ this doesn't point to a demonstrably different time frame on the island.

So now we have more confirmation. Will it convert the skeptics? Nope.
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Don't forget, Sayid is still only speaking from what he has experienced, not from what the Island people have experienced.

Yes, from Sayid 's perspective - island time + ship time - he's been gone 3 days since he's been in Locke's camp.
Sun spoke from the island standpoint. She said Sayid & Des have been gone 3 days, period.

Sayid and Sun are at 2 days and growing, time-perspective wise...

No use going to Lospedia on this one. Collective brains there fried when the chopper landed on the ship. Their timeline for the past several days contradicts itself internally, multiple times. I'm sure they know it but they're doing their best, and I appreciate it, it helps orient the various happenings within various episodes.

You really need drymarkers and a whiteboard to work it out. Can't do it with just text.
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That's very funny...but I think lostmio is a genius!!! I read the lostmio thread on HOlmium, Entanglement and the Weirdest link and then read both Lynne McTaagart books suggested in the thread. WOW!!! I am still reeling and completely believe all of it. lostmio you have set me on the course I'm supposed to follow. Who knew an artsy gift girl could comprehend quantum anything? Lots of gratitude your way!

:blshing1: aw gee, thanks... thru the Lost seasons, I've read most of the quantum and time and physics books recommended on Lost forums. There are some good ones, notably Paul Davies' How to Build a Time Machine (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1817637). It's a dummies version of time travel so I could follow it ok. I had to work at the others.

But McTaggart's two books (The Field (http://www.amazon.com/Field-Quest-Secret-Force-Universe/dp/0060931175), mainly, but also The Intention Experiment (http://www.theintentionexperiment.com/the_book.htm) ) were fun reads, and they hit the Lost bulls-eye:

* Two guys who call themselves snowmen
* Apollo
* a business magnate who gives gold watches to associates
* a fried-chicken chain

And that was all just in the two chapters!

:) Yes, of course it was. And it was confirmed again last week, when we found out that Sayid & Des boat time does not match up to Jack and Juliet island time. The time gap between the ship and the island has increased since the chopper trip.

Many of us realized months ago that there's "lost time" on the island and have posted about it in GT.

Yet there are still a number of posters who insist time is lost enroute to and from the island, but that ~somehow~ this doesn't point to a demonstrably different time frame on the island.

So now we have more confirmation. Will it convert the skeptics? Nope.
100%


Yes, from Sayid 's perspective - island time + ship time - he's been gone 3 days since he's been in Locke's camp.
Sun spoke from the island standpoint. She said Sayid & Des have been gone 3 days, period.

Sayid and Sun are at 2 days and growing, time-perspective wise...

No use going to Lospedia on this one. Collective brains there fried when the chopper landed on the ship. Their timeline for the past several days contradicts itself internally, multiple times. I'm sure they know it but they're doing their best, and I appreciate it, it helps orient the various happenings within various episodes.

You really need drymarkers and a whiteboard to work it out. Can't do it with just text.
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:blshing1: aw gee, thanks... thru the Lost seasons, I've read most of the quantum and time and physics books recommended on Lost forums. There are some good ones, notably Paul Davies' How to Build a Time Machine (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1817637). It's a dummies version of time travel so I could follow it ok. I had to work at the others.

But McTaggart's two books (The Field (http://www.amazon.com/Field-Quest-Secret-Force-Universe/dp/0060931175), mainly, but also The Intention Experiment (http://www.theintentionexperiment.com/the_book.htm) ) were fun reads, and they hit the Lost bulls-eye:

* Two guys who call themselves snowmen
* Apollo
* a business magnate who gives gold watches to associates
* a fried-chicken chain

And that was all just in the two chapters!

I'd thought it was the perception of time that was off - to Sayid, he was in Locke's camp 3 days ago, but he also thought his helicopter trip was 20-30 minutes. It wasn't. He even noted that it was midday even though they left at dusk, indicating that it took them much longer to get to the ship than was perceived, though I doubt he's counting that day's worth of lost time. The date of 12/24 in the ship (on the calendar) also matches up with the count of on-island date (by those who are keeping track). Also, the call between Des & Penny confirmed that the freighter, at least, is operating via outside world time.

If your theory was correct, the 2-day discrepancy you are describing as "growing" would have had a zero-point (time on and off would be the same, tracing it back) more recently than the rocket experiment.

Perhaps you can use MS Paint, or Photoshop, to do a "whiteboard" drawing that explains what you're talking about (or if you have in another thread, kindly point me to it)?

Also - Davies is awesome, but I'm still an old-fashioned Hawking girl m'self. :)

When Sayid arrived on the freighter didn't he say to Lapidus or someone else, tell me why we left at sundown and it is now day? or something to that effect

Also, Faraday said to Jack in "The Constant" your perception of how long your friends have. Been gone is not really how long they have been gone.

The time difference was because they traveled to the freighter. To Sayid the trip was like 20 minutes, not a day and a half. So to Sun Sayid was at Locke's camp something like 4 days ago. It isn't a constant difference from what I can tell.

Yep, that's what I think.

For the hundredth time. They talk through the phone. Time moves the same way on the island and on the freighter. They coudn't talk to each other any other way...

When Sayid arrived on the freighter didn't he say to Lapidus or someone else, tell me why we left at sundown and it is now day? or something to that effect

Also, Faraday said to Jack in "The Constant" your perception of how long your friends have. Been gone is not really how long they have been gone.

It was "Your perception of how long your friends've been gone... it's not necessarily how long they've actually been gone." Which only means that from Sayid's point of view it was only a few minutes what on the island was more than a day. Something happened while they were flying off the island. Why else would Faraday insist on the bearing? Maybe if Frank stayed on it, the time-shifting would have been less.

It applies at all speeds, not just at the speed of light. However, for slower speeds, the difference is miniscule.

In 1971, scientists took atomic clocks on airplanes and flew around the world twice, once eastward and once westward.

Compared against a stationary atomic clock, they lost 59 nanoseconds during their easward flight and gained 273 nanoseconds during their westward flight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment

From Monty Python's Meaning Of Life :

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the "Milky Way".

Everything is relative ...

On the island, Sun says "Sayid and Desmond have been gone 3 days".
Meanwhile, back on the freigher, Sayid tells Des "3 days ago I was in Locke's camp".

These two accounts don't sync up in time.
There's a 1 - 3 day difference between the island perspective and the freighter perspective.

so are you trying to say that time moves slower on the island, or off the island?

either way, wouldn't the minor difference in time add up to years of time differentials since the island has been around for a while? it sounds like you're saying time moves faster off the island than on it.

think about it this way: if 2 days on the island is 3 days in the real world, then in the 100 days they've been on the island, the real world would have advanced 150 days. but the plane crashed on 9/22/04, and it is now around 12/26/04.

Saying Sayid and Sun confirm island time discrepancy is the same as saying, "Faraday confirms island time consistency." Except it holds less weight.

It's not even something for which we have to rely on what they say in order to figure out. How long HAS it been since Sayid was in Locke's camp? How long has it been (to Sayid) since he called Jack on the satellite phone, and how long has it been (to Jack) since he received the call from Sayid? If these amounts of time are the same (please explain to me if they are not), then how is there a growing time discrepancy?

I took this to mean that time was the same on and off the island.
I believe that the time difference exists only within the barrier of the island, causing things to take longer to pass through.

I took this to mean that time was the same on and off the island.
I believe that the time difference exists only within the barrier of the island, causing things to take longer to pass through.
Having read the arguments for both view points, I remain in agreement with Miss Aly on this matter. :biggrin:

And it was confirmed again last week, when we found out that Sayid & Des boat time does not match up to Jack and Juliet island time. The time gap between the ship and the island has increased since the chopper trip.
Huh? We know Sayid lost a day during the helicopter trip. And we now have confirmation that his perception of time is still a day shorter than the perception of time on both the island and the boat.

Yet there are still a number of posters who insist time is lost enroute to and from the island, but that ~somehow~ this doesn't point to a demonstrably different time frame on the island.
We saw that this was the case. Sayid even remarked on it. They showed us a calender to confirm it for us. And even told us what day it was on the island in the enhance episode of eggtown, so that anyone paying attention would know that time goes at the same rate on and off the island.

Sayid and Sun are at 2 days and growing, time-perspective wise...
They're statements show that they're still one day off in their perception of how much time has passed. It is impossible that they are growing apart, as then the dates would be different as reckoned from the island and from the boat.

For the hundredth time. They talk through the phone. Time moves the same way on the island and on the freighter. They coudn't talk to each other any other way... .

:) I thought it was obvious - those are 'special' phones (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Satellite_phone/Theories)... sci-fi level technology.
All that tinkering and configuring and synching is about adjusting them for communication between the two time frames..
There's no other reason the show would equip the freighties with that kind of technology.

As for the phones, weren't we told they were sat (aka, satellite) phones? So, the phones could easily bypass this island barrier.... signal sent up to a satellite, then back down to the other phone on the ship.... it would pass over the island barrier entirely, right?

Then the discrepancy could still be the barrier between the island/boat area.

On the island, Sun says "Sayid and Desmond have been gone 3 days".
Meanwhile, back on the freigher, Sayid tells Des "3 days ago I was in Locke's camp".

These two accounts don't sync up in time.
There's a 1 - 3 day difference between the island perspective and the freighter perspective.

I just rewatched it so I have seen it twice and I missed that. 1 day difference.

:) I thought it was obvious - those are 'special' phones (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Satellite_phone/Theories)... sci-fi level technology.
All that tinkering and configuring and synching is about adjusting them for communication between the two time frames..
There's no other reason the show would equip the freighties with that kind of technology. You could record the message then play it faster or slower depending on which end of the gap you are on. But based on what I have seen I think the time barrier is the problem not different time rates on and off the island. I guess giving them time lapse solving sci-fi phones is cheaper than giving them a decent ship instead of that old freighter. :biggrin: So how did Penny talk to Charlie without a Sci-fi time phone?
For them to have phones already set up for the time problem they have needed a working theory or knowledge of just how the time problem worked. If they already have that kind of knowledge why is Faraday just now trying to calculate and measure the effect? Why did they direct the helicopter on a problematic course if they already could calulate the time effect?

Time is the same on the island, the freighter and the rest of the world.
Depending on how you leave you may be "paused" for a while.
This does not mean you are in the future or the past.
You simply don't get to experience the amount of time the rest of the world does.

It's so simple I want to shake everyone who does not get it. :chair:

Aw shucks Meano, thats shore a nice summary! :biggrin: