Why was it worth the screen time? Discuss.

I kinda felt the same way. I just felt like it was a cheap "GOTCHA!" Thus, it will have no replay value. On the other hand, Jack's FF episode was excellent, not cheap, very surprising, and full of replay value. :)

It was just a little mind game between the writers and us, and you've got to admit it was kinda cute. I personally relish the fact that the writers feel challenged and even playful enough to pull these stunts with us. It is all an amusement, isn't it?

I didn't feel it was "cute." Me and my spouse both felt cheated when we realized it was a combo FB/FF. There was no reason at all for Jin's FB other than to yank our chains. Yuk.

It was just some great story telling. It has no real relevance to the overall plot.

When do Sun and Jin ever have interesting FBs?

Is it really a FB? The writers are playing with us. This can very well be a FF.

Is it really a FB? The writers are playing with us. This can very well be a FF.

It was the year of the dragon, according to the store clerk who tried to sell Jin the stuffed dragon. So it was either 2000 or 2012.

I didn't feel it was "cute." Me and my spouse both felt cheated when we realized it was a combo FB/FF. There was no reason at all for Jin's FB other than to yank our chains. Yuk.

Remind me to never invite you on a camping trip. I don't want to get smacked when I tell you that the hitchhiker died ten years ago to this night.

No, but who cares? It added some awesome emotional punch to the episode. And yeah, it was really great, innovative storytelling by the writers. As usual.

Okay, I can understand why you'd think it was a bit *cheap*. But look at it this way, from a story telling standpoint: we see Jin and Sun's stories off-island, and get a look at how Jin might've been a dad expecting his first child. It just makes Sun's FF (and Jin's apparent death) that much sadder.

Well we did learn that Jin was on an apparently 'life-or-death' mission to get Paik in business with the nation of China. I imagine this will eventually relate to ties between Paik and Widmore... I think its going to be like some of the things in "The Other Woman"... setting up stuff that may not seem important now,but will be given much graver meaning later. First Post btw, hope I didn't mess up.

First Post btw, hope I didn't mess up.

No, not at all! And you picked a cool name. Is your really name "Lucy" by any chance?

I don't know, I didn't feel that it was "cheap". I feel like it might have been setting up something for later on.

Did anyone else get the feeling of just overall doomsday stuff going on in all Jin's FB's? I need to rewatch - but there was just kind of an overall feeling of dread. Through the music, the shopkeepers face and movements, the mysterious guy that steals the cab and panda, the crazy scooter that zips by and almost kills Jin, and does get his phone, the guard at the hospital room door, and the way that Jin tries to sneak a look into the room at the hospital. It just all played out to seem more to me than just a meaningless flashback. I dunno.

Why would anyone feel cheated? TPTB have a story to tell, and they told a little more of it tonight.

No, we didn't learn anything in the 6 minutes of Jin's flashbacks, but did this really matter? I thought it made the ending awesome! Plus, we got that hilariously awesome scene when Jin's taxi (and Panda) gets jacked by that other dude. I was laughing so hard when he said "I will kill you... I will rip your head off!" I love my Jin.... and he's NOT dead.

My question is: Do we need to learn something every second, or can we just sit back and enjoy the story as it unfolds?

Maybe Jin's FB didn't offer up any new information about the mythology of the show, but it did create an intense emotional moment for us.

they introduced 3 different storylines. maybe they can do it more effectively with crazy stuff later.
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i was hoping he would have shot someone like sayid at the golf course. what was up with that lol.

I have to agree with those saying they liked the episode's storytelling effect. I usually rate a Lost episode on how much I "learn," but by the end of this one I was loving it just for it totally messing with you. Now, don't do it again.

I *loved* the passing "year of the dragon" reference! When I heard that, I immediately hit pause and went to go look up when the next year of the dragon was, and then *flipped out* when I was it was 2012, not even considering that this might be a FB taking place in 2000.

It was the year of the dragon, according to the store clerk who tried to sell Jin the stuffed dragon. So it was either 2000 or 2012.Oh man, I can't believe I didn't catch that!!!

About the FB/FF, I don't want them to make a habit out of it, but no one in my viewing group felt "cheated." And I also strongly agree that we don't have to "learn" something every minute of the show.

I think as a flash back by itself, it would be very difficult to glean any knowledge from it. However, it had company, in the form of Sun's FF and the Sun & Jin interactions on the island.

Jin (on island) said "I will do whatever it takes to protect you and the baby." - to Sun
-we already know, and were reminded last night, what kind of person Jin turned into while doing "what it [took]" to be married to Sun in working for Mr. Paik

the FB/FF showed parallel events giving the viewer the impression (at first) that Jin was missing the birth of his own child in order to do Mr. Paik's bidding; but ultimately shows that he missed the birth of his child because he is (apparently) dead. - or is he just off doing someone else's bidding? Similar to Sayid in his FF, as Ben's assassin. Could this be "whatever it takes to protect [Sun] and the baby."?

While I was watching it I thought Jin's was a flashforward. With this thought I just felt that Jin had fallen back to his pre-island form. I just felt this was a easy was for the writers to put Jin in the story even though he is dead in Sun's flashforward.

Although I felt the dread in this ep, I was anticipating the happy ending moment, thinking only that he was going to miss the birth of his daughter, not be dead for it!
I was thinking he would show up late but then embrace the new family and maybe we would get some new clues and tidbits along the way.
I really just wanted to see some hope of a happy ending for these two.

I was bummed..... :frown:

Does everyone think he is really dead?

It was a nice storytelling technique, that added a lot of emotional punch to the final scene. My only objection really was that the flashback in itself meant nothing. It would've been nice if they had given us a little something to make it worthwhile. I can't think of anything at the moment, but previous Jin/Sun flashbacks have always woven toegther nicely, it would've been nice to have had something like that again, because the replay value of this episode is low.

Also, I personally thought they made it too obvious something was wrong. I haven't a clue when the year of the dragon is, but the fact that the shopkeeper said it was suspicious to say the least. And with Sun holding onto her wedding ring so intensely, I guessed the situation quicker than I would've liked.

I learned that Korea thinks they can break into the Chinese trade market by giving the Ambassador a giant panda bear for his newborn grandchild. :p

I think as a flash back by itself, it would be very difficult to glean any knowledge from it. However, it had company, in the form of Sun's FF and the Sun & Jin interactions on the island.

Jin (on island) said "I will do whatever it takes to protect you and the baby." - to Sun
-we already know, and were reminded last night, what kind of person Jin turned into while doing "what it [took]" to be married to Sun in working for Mr. Paik

the FB/FF showed parallel events giving the viewer the impression (at first) that Jin was missing the birth of his own child in order to do Mr. Paik's bidding; but ultimately shows that he missed the birth of his child because he is (apparently) dead. - or is he just off doing someone else's bidding? Similar to Sayid in his FF, as Ben's assassin. Could this be "whatever it takes to protect [Sun] and the baby."?

The flashhback wasn't meaningless, the writers were presenting us with another mystery - post island was Jin doing whatever it took to protect his family, as astutely noted by the poster above, or did he suffer the consequences of karma (remember his conversation with Bernard) for the work he did with Paik and miss the birth of his own child,,,? All we have is the date on the tombstone so there is no way to tell, hence a new mystery.

I knew that there was no way that we were actually seeing Jin rushing to the hospital to see Sun. She was the last of the O6 and there was no way Jin could be there. I guess they were just trying to string people along throughout the episode. That was the whole reason for seeing those flashbacks of Jin.

I learned that Korea thinks they can break into the Chinese trade market by giving the Ambassador a giant panda bear for his newborn grandchild. :p

LMAO we can only wait and see

It was the year of the dragon, according to the store clerk who tried to sell Jin the stuffed dragon. So it was either 2000 or 2012.

So were Jin and Sun only married two months (as he told the nurse) in 2000? That would answer a lot for those who aren't sure if it was a FF or FB.

Definitely an M. Night Shyamalan moment. "Twist!"

/I think they pulled it off well, though. I was entertained, if nothing else.

Definitely an M. Night Shyamalan moment. "Twist!"

/I think they pulled it off well, though. I was entertained, if nothing else.


I agree. At worse, this episode had me saying, "Those magnificiant b a s t a r d s !"

I enjoyed the twist. I didn't feel cheated.

I thought it was good to remind us about what type of man he was. Its been a long time since we've seen that Jin. Imagine how that Jin would've responded to Sun's secret.

The only thing that was confirmed for me was what he was like prior to coming to the island. The ending where he forgave Sun and said he would follow her anywhere shows how much he has changed.

I liked the twist of the FB and FF combination. I wonder if the only Losties to get FFs will be those who make it off the island?

I agree with most people here, it was a pretty clever twist, although I suspected something was a bit wierd by Jin's old phone. In Jack's FF, he has some snazzy high tech super slim cell phone, Jin was running around with a semi-brick cell. I assumed he didnt like high-tech phones and thought nothing more of it..... until the end.

Not proud to admit it, but I realized it was FBs only in the end, though I should've guessed because of the panda thing.
I thought it was pretty relevant to Jin admitting he'd been a bad husband.

Besides, whether it reveals anything or not, it was some pretty damn fine storytelling, with great emotional impact in the end. Since when did everyone become so obsessed about revelations that they forgot about beautiful episodes?

Jin had a flashback? what?

I was totally fooled as I have no idea when the year of the dragon is and i pay little to no attention to cell phone sizes. Sippin a little Jack Daniels didn't help either. ;)

Useless...n a waste of time the FB. So now we resort to these cheap plot lines to get our "twist".

I watched it having read all the spoilers and basically knowing the entire script. I still cried at the end because of the thought that he never would see his baby,(That is unless when they go back to the island they can rewrite history) I had known for sometime that Jin and Sun would get off the island and that he would die- I thought his death would be in the flash forward and I am sure at some point it will be, but for some reason I had held out hope it would be after the birth of his daughter. I guess he did have to sacrifice himself to save Jin - perhaps he is one of the 2 people who don't quite make the Oceanic 6 cut or maybe something happens off island which is why Sayid is needing to protect his friends.

I enjoyed the twist. I didn't feel cheated.

I thought it was good to remind us about what type of man he was. Its been a long time since we've seen that Jin. Imagine how that Jin would've responded to Sun's secret.
I completely agree with this. It was beautiful, if painful, storyline, and set up an excellent juxtaposition with the man Jin currently is - he is so far removed from being Paik's hitman/glorified errand boy, that he even speaks of the old him in the third person. It's heartbreaking.

Here's a great quote from EW about it:
But I dig narrative gamesmanship, especially when it's supported by a strong, compelling character idea. Jin's flashback served as a touchstone that reminded him (or just us) of the morally flimsy man he used to be. He needed to feel that anew — and we needed to see that again — in order for him to be able to (very quickly) reach reconciliation with his wife in the Island present.

Another clue to the flashback was how dated Jin's cell phone was. Just as Jack's RAZR was a clue to the flash forward of last season's finale.

It also showed how Jin was before the island,
which made Jin's declaration to Sun
on the Island more poignant.

Oh man, I can't believe I didn't catch that!!!

About the FB/FF, I don't want them to make a habit out of it, but no one in my viewing group felt "cheated." And I also strongly agree that we don't have to "learn" something every minute of the show.
He also said hed only been married 2 months so it either was a flashback or hes off the island and re married again in 2012.

I really enjoyed the episode and gave it an 8. I didn't mind the combo FB/FF but... that being said... I think it was needless toying with our emotions on the writers behalf. I was spoiled, so I knew how it was going to work out, but I think the writers are much better than that and don't need to pull of cheap twists like that to evoke our emotions. The worst thing for me was how Sun kept asking "Is my husband here yet?" Granted she was medicated, but give me a break...

It was no cheap twist
by grace of the Island
did Jin get to share
in his daughter's birth
'twas a great and merciful gift

by grace of the Island did Jin get to share in his daughter's birth
I must've missed that part of the episode.

I must've missed that part of the episode.

You may want to watch that again... and with a leap of faith.
He was there. The Island made it so.

My question is: Do we need to learn something every second, or can we just sit back and enjoy the story as it unfolds?

Maybe Jin's FB didn't offer up any new information about the mythology of the show, but it did create an intense emotional moment for us.

Oh, I completely agree with you. I am getting sick and tired of people bashing the best show ever made (IMO, of course). Just enjoy it. Damn internet is both a blessing and a pain. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. I used to be on top of all spoilers for the first 2 seasons, but I gave it up and I am much happier. All i miss out on is posting in the spoiler section, and I am not one of those who think post counts make you smarter or know more about the show. Some people just can't post all day...anyway, I'm rambling...
Even if I didnt LEARN anything shockingly new, I must say that it was a total shock when I realized that Jin was having a FB instead of FF. The pieces were there in my mind, I just didnt' put it all together til the end....and when i did finally put it all together, I thought it was very gratifying.

No, but who cares? It added some awesome emotional punch to the episode. And yeah, it was really great, innovative storytelling by the writers. As usual.


Agreed!!

Yeah I cannot say it was cheap. I like the post that said they are glad the writers feel challenged. Personally if they did not do these kind of things the same people saying "oh it is cheap, oh it is just a device to yank us" would be the same people to complain that the story lines are predictable and boring now.

It was fun, this is an entertainment show, geez, get over yourselves.

That said I am such a fool that I did not realize it earlier, I noticed the clerk never said Oh you are one of the O6, which I though odd as that is always pointed out, even her mother wheeling Sun in said a comment to the nurse, but never to Jin. Also I thought oh I guess year of the dragon is 07 and worse, wow that is a pretty old phone. So yeah, I noticed all that,but not until he said he was working for Mr Paik did I say, wait, what? Why is he presenting to his....ohhhh. Personally I am glad it took me that long, made the impact that much better.

And relevance in his FB. Who knows, maybe there will be, I mean who was the person that shouldered JIn and stole his cab, was that intentional (yes I am probably reading too much into that), could there be something with Paik and the ambassador...there are strings it could follow.

but seriously, relax, breath deep and enjoy

I also got the impression it was setting something up for a future event.
Maybe also a second reason for the fishing scene karma conversation

Yeah, that he's dead. :(

No, but who cares? It added some awesome emotional punch to the episode. And yeah, it was really great, innovative storytelling by the writers. As usual.


I agree. Jin's flashback was obviously used as a red herring to deliberately mislead the audience until the last moment. To give the story that emotional punch. I thought it was well written.

what's the significance of the Panda?
anything?

Here is the significance of the Panda in Chinese, granted a kids site, but sums it up easily

http://www.pandaexpress.com/pandakids/html/fun_facts/fact02.html
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there is also this, just copy and paste from a site

In ancient China the giant panda was considered rare and a symbol of might and bravery. The panda has been apart of Chinese culture for over 2000 yrs. When the Empress Dowager Bo (179-163 BC) tomb was opened 2100 yrs after her death, a giant panda skull was found along side her. A historian noted that in the Western Han dynasty(206 BC - 24 AD) the emporor had a garden of rare species, the giant panda was his most treasured animal. The first emporor of the Tang dynasty is said to have once held a banquet where he honored 14 subjects by presenting them with panda skins. His grandson son is said to have sent two live pandas with several pelts to Japan to help seal trade agreements.

for three season we saw nothing but flashbacks and realized that what had happened in that characters past led to the decissions they made on the island. Now after a scant half season of flashfowards, we find this device as "cheap"? When we thought that Jin was in a flashfoward we thought he was a wonderful husband to Sun, As we realized this was really a flashback we saw that his decissions in the past (going these extremes to pass along a message for Mr Paik, thusly ignorring his new wife at home) had a direct effect on his actions on the island. We got a double whammy when we realized that he was dead in the future. Kudos to the writers. For those of you who found it cheap, I'm not sure you caught onto everything the flashback was stating. As Ben says "Go over it again, maybe you missed something."

i liked Jin's fb a lot it mad up for me already guessing it was michael on the boat

I enjoyed the twist. I didn't feel cheated.

I thought it was good to remind us about what type of man he was. Its been a long time since we've seen that Jin. Imagine how that Jin would've responded to Sun's secret.

If I could mod up a comment, it would be this one.

Jin's backstory is there to remind us of the cold, emotionless "servant of Paik" he was before coming to the island and to increase the scope of his new mature revelation in "Ji Yeon."

The episode as a whole very succinctly tied up most of the loose ends of the Sun/Jin backstory and established some tantalizing questions about their future. I quite liked it...but I'm a sucker for the whole Sun/Jin storyline so I'm admittedly biased.

bottom line, now Sun is available, so I am moving to Korea, oh wait, that is right, just TV show, but still

You may want to watch that again... and with a leap of faith.
He was there. The Island made it so.



She's right - just for a split instant, Jin appeared in the room just as she was giving birth; then he was gone.

She's right - just for a split instant, Jin appeared in the room just as she was giving birth; then he was gone.

screencap?

the panda represents bravery and might...so a poster here stated...so that means Jin lost it and gained it again....maybe a bit of foreshadowing.

Also, it's important for us to remember that Jin says that Sun cheated on the old Jin not the new.

I was completely surprised when he cussed the cab stealer...I am sure the new Jin would not use such threats.

We were to juxtapose the old and new version of Jin.

The red herring was merely a fun play upon that.

After thinking about it I see how Jin's FB is in contrast to Jack's FF from last season. The vehicle Jack is driving is a recent model as is his cell phone. Jin's cell phone is an older model as are the cars driving through China. Sure, there's a possibility that this is a FF to 2012, but chances are more likely that it's a FB. After all, if Jin were still working for Paik in the future his cell phone would be far more up-to-date.

And why was the Panda SO important? There has to be a reason to it. I remember thinking to myself how more appropriate a polar bear would be if it turned out to be Sun he was going to see at the hospital. :biggrin: Why a panda bear? Ok, they were popular that year, according to the salesman.

I get the feeling that this FB will have greater importance in later episodes.
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She's right - just for a split instant, Jin appeared in the room just as she was giving birth; then he was gone.
I think Sun thought Jin was there, but it was really just a man who looked a lot like him. The camera spent a second or two on him. Nice looking man. Just not Jin. :redface:

screencap?


I will look for one, but haven't seen any from the labor scene pop up yet. It was almost as if the face of one of the doctors transformed into Jin's face for just a split second, then reverted. It could be passed off as a hallucination on Sun's part, or it could be the Island rewarding Jin for his service by allowing him to see his daughter being born - even if only for a moment.

I agree with most people here, it was a pretty clever twist, although I suspected something was a bit wierd by Jin's old phone. In Jack's FF, he has some snazzy high tech super slim cell phone, Jin was running around with a semi-brick cell. I assumed he didnt like high-tech phones and thought nothing more of it..... until the end.
As soon as I saw the phone I knew it was a FB.

Oh, I completely agree with you. I am getting sick and tired of people bashing the best show ever made (IMO, of course). Just enjoy it. Damn internet is both a blessing and a pain. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. I used to be on top of all spoilers for the first 2 seasons, but I gave it up and I am much happier. All i miss out on is posting in the spoiler section, and I am not one of those who think post counts make you smarter or know more about the show. Some people just can't post all day...anyway, I'm rambling...
Even if I didnt LEARN anything shockingly new, I must say that it was a total shock when I realized that Jin was having a FB instead of FF. The pieces were there in my mind, I just didnt' put it all together til the end....and when i did finally put it all together, I thought it was very gratifying.

You know what's funny? Right before I got to your post, I thought, "Wow, am I sick of people whining..." (And, btw, I totally agree that it's the best show ever made.)

The majority of posts in this thread have been positive, but I just can't understand the complaints about "cheap shots" and such. What's cheap about using an intricate storytelling device composed of the present, past and future to tell a tale? How is that lazy writing?

I actually thought it was a brilliant idea. Those of us who go spoiler-free spent the show trying to put the pieces together: Why did Jin have such an old phone? Why was he so desperate to get that damn panda when Sun was about to deliver his baby? Why was Sun so adamant that the medical staff not take her wedding ring? What was taking Jin so long to arrive?

I was convinced that he was going to be killed en route, so when he made it to the hospital, I breathed a sigh of relief -- only to tense up all over again when he delivered the bear for Mr. Paik. At that point, I was confused as hell but on the edge of my seat. And when it all went down smoothly, and he made the comment on his way out about only having been married two months, my heart sunk. As soon as we flipped back to Sun giving birth, I knew that Jin wouldn't be there... that he would never be there.

It was such an emotional roller coaster. Did we learn anything from Jin's flashback? No. Did we learn anything from the episode in general? Yes. More importantly, there was an enormous amount of heart -- and, in case you've forgotten, LOST at its purest form is about the characters.

I kind of hated it just for the fact I don't know Chinese New Years, so I was still in the confused stage when the final shot was done.
I think I would have cried had I not been so busy trying to remember Jinn's first employers name and such.

Maybe, somehow, Sun and Jin's consciousnesses have, to a limited extent, fused and Sun was having Jin's flashback while having her baby, thereby leading her to hallucinate and hope that Jin is coming ...

I didn't hate the FBs but I wish they had given us any new info about Jin, other than serving the plot device. I knew right away that it was a FB and the cellphone sealed it for me. For the rest of the episode, I was just waiting for the anti-climatctic reveal. I understand that it wasn't anticlimactic for many people, because they were tricked. But for me, the FBs were really boring and frankly, bizarre, because I was like "this is so stupid. Jin would never dillydally buying a freaking panda for Sun and the baby. he's clearly going to someone else."

I didn't hate the FBs but I wish they had given us any new info about Jin, other than serving the plot device. I knew right away that it was a FB and the cellphone sealed it for me. For the rest of the episode, I was just waiting for the anti-climatctic reveal. I understand that it wasn't anticlimactic for many people, because they were tricked. But for me, the FBs were really boring and frankly, bizarre, because I was like "this is so stupid. Jin would never dillydally buying a freaking panda for Sun and the baby. he's clearly going to someone else."

Yeah it is too bad that you realized it was a FB as I can see that making it more boring. For me, the slow-witted, I was even saying, how silly it was and to go back, come on, and why is that guy not saying he is O6, and what is with the phone, but never made the leap to FB until he delivered it, even then I was thinking it was a cover up in a way. But being clueless paid off as it was more exciting.

Has anyone thought of whether of not Jin is time traveling like Desmond? Maybe that is how he died? Maybe jin didnt or couldnt find a constant and we just saw one of his many jumps after getting off the island? Just a thought that I had when rewatching the epi today

I will look for one, but haven't seen any from the labor scene pop up yet. It was almost as if the face of one of the doctors transformed into Jin's face for just a split second, then reverted. It could be passed off as a hallucination on Sun's part, or it could be the Island rewarding Jin for his service by allowing him to see his daughter being born - even if only for a moment.

Twin gifts, one for Jin and one for Sun.

I agree with the posters who did not feel cheated. It was a narrative choice. Were there big reveals about Jin's past in the 5 miniutes of flashbacks? No, but I believe it served more of a purpose than tricking the audience. We needed to be reminded of Jin's dark past in order to contrast that with his new life on the Island. He has been completely transformed and as another reviewer put it, has completed his redemptive arc. This gave much more emotional resonance to the scene between Jin and Sun, when he forgives her. The episode could have worked without the Jin flashbacks, too, but I think having that reminder of his life working for Mr Paik, and his bad temper, made the episode and character a lot more emotionally interesting.

Plus, I don't think Jin is dead :)

Has anyone thought of whether of not Jin is time traveling like Desmond? Maybe that is how he died? Maybe jin didnt or couldnt find a constant and we just saw one of his many jumps after getting off the island? Just a thought that I had when rewatching the epi today

In fact yes and I think i posted that thought right after the show ended only to feel like a confused fool ever since. But thanks to your post here I no longer feel like a fool! Yay!!!:)

we...get a look at how Jin might've been a dad expecting his first child. It just makes Sun's FF (and Jin's apparent death) that much sadder.

I agree completely..and that's its relevance to the story...which is made up of other elements besides plot, like character.

I thought it was a glimpse at 1. how Paik put the fear of death into Jin which shows us Paik's character. And it showed us Jin too.. he took the extra step of picking out an appropriate gift (the panda is a Chinese symbol) for the Chinese Ambassador and even tying the Blue bow around the panda's neck when he found out it was a boy baby. Jin can be tough and sweet. He even glanced in to see the mother and baby. 2. It was a way to show us what is missing from Sun's experience at the hospital...there is no Jin running down the hall with a giant panda for her.

I knew it was a FB when it started...first, I thought, no way Jin is working for Paik as a lachey when he gets home. He's changed... this must be in the past...then he said he had only been married two months. Obviously a FB.
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I agree with the posters who did not feel cheated. It was a narrative choice. Were there big reveals about Jin's past in the 5 miniutes of flashbacks? No, but I believe it served more of a purpose than tricking the audience. We needed to be reminded of Jin's dark past in order to contrast that with his new life on the Island. He has been completely transformed and as another reviewer put it, has completed his redemptive arc. This gave much more emotional resonance to the scene between Jin and Sun, when he forgives her. The episode could have worked without the Jin flashbacks, too, but I think having that reminder of his life working for Mr Paik, and his bad temper, made the episode and character a lot more emotionally interesting.

Plus, I don't think Jin is dead :)

Again, I'm in agreement, and I am not sure if Jin is dead either...hopefully, he's still on the island. Either way, Sun's sadness, missing him, and his not being there for the baby's birth was painful to witness. I wish Hurley had been there to hold Sun's hand in the delivery room (though he hates blood and would have passed out).

Pro Jin being alive: Sun does still wear her wedding ring. And his tombstone bore the date of the crash (as though to remind us not to believe what we see). Sun also cries out for Jin at the hospital as if he were alive.

Con Jin being alive: He isn't with Sun even though he said "I go where Sun goes" and I believe he meant always. Sun seems resolved that she will not have Jin with her to raise their baby... she has to tell his empty tombstone that she named the baby the name he likedddd when it was the first name he suggested.