In your heart of hearts, what do you think? Could Jin really be dead?

I don't think Sun would've visited a gravestone if he wasn't. Besides he overcame his demons. The issue that he has had this whole show has to do with his marriage, but his forgiving his wife and admitting he was wrong means death on this show.

I hope not.

I'm kind of torn on this. Here's what I think....

Jin dies while being rescued, so he is one of the 8 that Jack mentions in court. So according to Jacks story, 8 survived the crash but only 6 make it off the island, I'm guessing Jin will be known as one of the 2 that died.

UNLESS, Sun (and all the Oceanic 6) are lead to believe Jin died, along with everyone else remaining on the island, and Jin's gave stone was there as a memorial to him, but he is actually still alive on the island, along with Sawyer, Locke and whom ever else is still alive on the island....

There is nothing I saw that even remotely leads me to believe he is still alive, but every reason to believe he is not. It sucks, because he is an awesome character, but I feel it would greatly cheapen Sun's visit to the grave if it turns out he is still alive.

Isn't it obvious that he is? Am I missing something?

okay, I voted no because of the date on the tombstone.

I think his death is faked for some reason, and it's possible the Sun doesn't
know he is still alive--hence the graveyard visit.

otoh, I have no idea. :confused:

I'm guessing that he's benn brought off the island to do Ben's bidding without anyones knowledge, under the cover that he's dead. And I'm also guessing that he doesn't know that Sun made it off the island alive, or where she is.

I voted as yes, the reason for this is why would Sun go visit a grave if Jin hadn't really died. As mentioned his deamons were about his marriage, he was able to forgive Sun for cheating on him and well that means that he no longer really had any deamons. But I really wish he weren't dead, this was just a sad twist :frown:

Nope.

I voted no because I believe its a possibility that Jin and Sun were not allowed to leave the island together for some reason. Since she left without Jin and the O6 were the "only" survivors, they had to say that Jin was dead.

I think the graveside scene is to keep us wondering because I feel she would be just as sad knowing that Jin is alive, but not with her.

Just my thoughts....

I'm really hoping there's a way out of it. Maybe he's just stuck on the island. Jin has shown a lot of character growth, and he deserves a happy ending.

i don't think jin is dead at all. he is still on the island with the other survivors that didn't want to leave---locke, rose, bernard, sawyer, etc. jin chose to remain behind in order to ensure that sun was given the chance to get off the island to safely have the baby. the grave, and the visit to the grave, its all part of the lie/story that jack said he was tired of living. the visit to jin's grave was just for show cuz the '6' are being watched by whomever created the conspiricy to make sure they are living the lie

Yes, I think he will die. Hence Sun's tears, but I guess we'll see. I think they've done something neat here...produced two tearjerking moments with just one death. He's not even dead yet! :)

i don't think jin is dead at all. he is still on the island with the other survivors that didn't want to leave---locke, rose, bernard, sawyer, etc. jin chose to remain behind in order to ensure that sun was given the chance to get off the island to safely have the baby. the grave, and the visit to the grave, its all part of the lie/story that jack said he was tired of living. the visit to jin's grave was just for show cuz the '6' are being watched by whomever created the conspiricy to make sure they are living the lie

Yes to all of this except possibly the last sentence. Even if they aren't being watched (although they certainly could be), Sun would still mourn the loss of Jin because he is somewhere she can never go and he, she assumes, will never be able to leave. Plus there is the guilt that she would feel and Hurley also at having left loved ones behind on the island so that they could escape.

I'm voting 'no', just b/c I don't want him to be. But then, I don't want anyone to be (except for maybe Paulo & Nicki - but definitely not Jin OR Charlie) Anyway, I was thinking that they made him out to be one of the original 8 survivors, so it would explain Sun's pregnancy. But then wasn't his death date listed as Sept 22, so who knows? I still don't know how they've explained Kate's pregnancy either. All these babies and no timeline to account for them...

So, I voted 'no' just b/c I like Jin and I think the actor is absolutely amazing on this show!

No, because of all of the reasons stated previously by the people who say no; and I think Mr Paik is going to have SOMETHING to do with all of this..........

I think no. The date on the tombstone is the clincher. Since the date on the tombstone is a lie, I can't be sure he's even dead and I surely don't want him to be...so I'm sticking with "no" until we get more convincing proof than a falsified tombstone.

The date on the tombstone is 22/9/2004. This is the same date as the flight. This suggests that Jin was not one of the 8 who Jack mentioned in court and that they are claiming he died in the crash. So I think he's still alive on the island.
Unless something came along and killed everyone apart from the 8 :biggrin:

No, I think he is very much alive. He is still on the island.
My theory at this point.
Jin is on the island.
He is said to be one of the two that survived the crash and then died to explain Sun coming home pregnant.
The date on the tomb stone is the date of the crash because his family or Suns father had the tomb stone put up after the plane crash. There was probably one for Sun too, which was removed after she was found alive.
I'm sure the same happend with the other 5 survivers as well.

Since Sun knows Jin is alive, she probably felt no need to change the date on the tomb stone to what ever day they are saying he actually died.

I think she was at the grave for show. I think she was crying because she truly misses her husband, but she was not mourning him.

I think he's still alive & on the Island we the rest of the survivors left behind.
For some reason the 6 are being forced to tell this big lie about being the only survivors.....I can't wait to see what happens that leads to those particular 6 getting off instead of a different group of survivors, it's not like the 6 are currently in a nice little isolated group waiting to be rescued....what could happen that would seperate Claire from Aaron or Jin from Sun during rescue and why would Jack, Kate & Hurley act like they don't care about what happened to Sawyer or Rose or Juliet etc...it would seem the only reason would be that they think the rest are dead or they think that the only thing that will keep them alive is to keep up this Big Lie alive....either way I think Jin is Alive but not there and Sun is very upset about it .....very intriguing!

The writers have made it masterfully ambiguous.

Part of me wants to say he is dead because the writers spoke of a death this episode. We have a couple of options there. Jin or Regina or both. Both deaths seem a bit rigged.

Regina jumps off of the boat with chains loosely draped upon her. Look at the gaps in the chains -- she could easily free herself of them. For what purpose though? Swim to another vehicle to make a report to Widmore? Report to Ben?

Jin's tombstone has the wrong date. Perhaps Sun is able to one-way communicate with Jin at his headstone? She shows the baby to the tombstone.

Omnipresence and omniscience are both important in the story -- and are alluded as being qualities of Ben, who we know is free in the future. Free and sending Sayid out to kill people. Maybe his "Good" at the end of Sayid's episode is one of satisfaction for instilling fear in his enemies AND throwing them off of the scent of a different assasin - Jin.

Here is my 2 cents.

1) Jin is not dead, since we see a flash forward of him @ a hospital. In the show the store clerk offers Jin a dragon, and says, "In the year of the dragon, it'll bring good luck". The last year of the dragon was 2000. The next one will be in 2012. Notice, how the store clerk says, ".. in the....", so it's not the year of the dragon yet. So, it's 2011! Therefore this is a flash forward for the last season.

Otherwise it would be 1999. But Sun, and Jin weren't married yet, so Jin couldn't be working for Paik. And it was shown later on that the Jin referred to Paik. This leads to a contradiction. Therefore it can not be 1999. So it has to be 2011!

2)Jin is working for Ben. (assumption). I have a theory going that Ben will try to start an international conflict between U.S. and China (see lost general theories) leading to the world ending scenario as predicted by the Valenzetti equation.

3)The tombstone has Jin's death as 2004-9-22 (date of the crash) for two reasons.
i)Jin's death is staged to be consistent with the Oceanic 6 story. Jin will use his connection from Paik to make contact with Chinese authority, and the the underworld.
ii)Paik has to believe Jin is dead, or else Jin couldn't carry out Ben's plans.

I think for reasons we have yet to see that Jin had to stay on the island and let Sun go to save the baby and Sun,

I think that's what the conversation with Bernard was setting up. Sacrifice for your love-ones.

Im thinking Jin because his tombstone lists his date of death as the day flight 815 crashed...

(see screencap http://bp1.blogger.com/_n3eH1jI8AZ8/R9njQhhsd2I/AAAAAAAACxA/gD0k20t2q3o/s1600-h/Jin%27s+date+of+death.jpg)

...Jin is possibly alive but did not get off the island...the Oceanic Six must keep up the charade that everyone else is dead and visiting the tombstone, even though its an empty grave, is a way for Sun to still connect with Jin. Sun seemed sad in those scenes but Hurley did not really seem that sad...when he asked if anyone else came and Sun said no and he said cool seemed really out of place considering they were going to supposedly visit his grave! The fact that no one else is there to support Sun makes me think that Jin is alive and as Ive said above, shes just trying to connect with him. Hurley is there cause hes still stinking rich and has nothing better to do and obviously hasnt gone bonkers yet!

I think he's still alive and on the island with the rest of the bunch. This is why Jack is such a mess in the future. I think that only a certain number of people will get the opportunity to be rescued, and maybe there's not room for both Sun and Jin. Jin makes Sun leave without him so that her and the baby will survive- so this is his big sacrifice.

Yes to all of this except possibly the last sentence. Even if they aren't being watched (although they certainly could be), Sun would still mourn the loss of Jin because he is somewhere she can never go and he, she assumes, will never be able to leave. Plus there is the guilt that she would feel and Hurley also at having left loved ones behind on the island so that they could escape.
Even if you are separated permanently from someone, you don't go talk to them by talking to a gravestone. You just don't do it. Dude's dead and buried.

Pythagoras99 is correct. Yunjin did not act the scene as if she was playing a woman who was missing her absent husband; she was playing a mourning widow.

I know it's in people nature to second guess every reveal on this show, but just like the time people thought Sun pushed Jae out the window or that Juliet was lying about the Sun's D.O.C, I'm guessing that it won't be long before this "Jin is alive on the island" idea completely dies.

Jin is dead.

Pythagoras99 is correct. Yunjin did not act the scene as if she was playing a woman who was missing her absent husband; she was playing a mourning widow.

Jin is dead.

Whether he is dead or alive, Sun most definitely BELIEVES he is dead. Her performance can't tell us anything beyond that.

- mnw

I voted "no." I think he (and everybody else except the Oceanic Six + Ben) are still alive on The Island, but because of "the lie" he has to be dead for the outside world.

And since apparently nobody can "go back" to The Island - and since therefore Sun will never EVER see him again - he might as well be dead for her.

Yes, it was a sad twist, but now that it's been revealed I hope he is actually dead and isn't brought back in some fairy-taley kind of way, as that would seriously damage the credibility of the show, in my opinion.

The date on the gravestone was the date of the crash. Have the reasons for this been discussed? If it has, I missed it.

Rainbow.

The date on the tombstone is 22/9/2004.

What kind of month is 22? This is craziness!!! :eek:

Okay. you got me. Yes, I know the answer to my own question ..... Since the 23rd month of Island time is known as "Lostember", the 22nd month is called "Pre-Lostember" (except for in certain remote parts of Wisconsin where it is better known as "Beer Drinking Month Number Twenty-Two", or "Beerdronthumber (belch)-two".)

As for the poll, I am undecided but leaning toward Jin is dead.

I voted YES
But I also think thats there's a chance he may still be alive some how. Slight chance.

Judging from the scene at the grave, I would say yes, but I'm holding out hope that Jin's death was staged and that he actually is still alive on the island.

but why would Hurley say, in privacy, "Should we go see him?"

The date on the tombstone is 22/9/2004. This is the same date as the flight. This suggests that Jin was not one of the 8 who Jack mentioned in court and that they are claiming he died in the crash. So I think he's still alive on the island.
Unless something came along and killed everyone apart from the 8 :biggrin:

And here I thought I was the only one who picked up on this tid bit...hehehe

They [The Oceanic 6] obviously told the world that Jin died in the crash on 9-22-2004. The date on the head stone was way obvious to this. This leads me to think he stayed behind for some reason. He may have had to hold a dead man's switch sort of thing to make sure they got off the island. The O6 would certainly have to make the world think he was dead to justify this big cover story they told the world.

The big problem I see is if Jin died in the crash like they told the world, then what kind of story is Sun telling as to how she got pregnant? That isn't something you can cover up very easily. Any doc could tell the date of conception when they examined her back home in Korea. A few weeks she might cover up as being pregnant before the 815 flight. But, since her and Jin weren't even talking to each other much in the first season and since Juliet confirmed she was about 8 weeks along when she examined her, Sun would absolutely have had to gotten pregnant on island.

My question is, who did they tell the world the daddy was??? Hurley??? LOL

I just think he is still alive for a plethora of reasons. One of the biggies is Hurley having said "good" when Sun told him nobody else was coming. His relief was like he figured everybody bought the story they told the world and that no other O6'er showing up would mean less attention from paparazzi etc. Sun seemed to miss Jin like he was on a long trip more than if he was dead. Just my gut feeling.

I have to point out.
That tomb stone could have been put up long before any of the O6 came back.
I would think familys would want closer and have memorials. Some putting up a stone in the family plot if they have one.

If Sun knows he is a live, she wouldn't care what date is on it and just leave it be.

I love how people keep trying to rationalise Sun's and Hurley's reactions to justify that Jin is definetly dead. I think it's up in the air if he's alive or dead. The tombstone is a fake and we haven't seen him die yet. If Jin is missing/still on the island Sun could see the grave as the only place she can go to think about him. There is also the possibility Sun doesn't know Jin is still alive.

If he was still alive, she wouldn't react that way.
Even if he was stuck on the island, why would she think its forever?
They got out didn't they in less than a third of a year.
Unless someone shows me the impossibility of escape after this
one, I'll believe that Jin is dead.

I think he dies getting her off the island.

I think that for some reason, only six people could leave the island, and Jin let Sun leave the island to protect her and the baby. Since the date on the headstone said 9/22/04, I think it was either put up when they all "died," or it was put up after the O6 got back to keep up the pretense that only six people survived the crash. Sun never said anything like, "I wish you hadn't died" or to that effect, she said "I miss you" so I think even if she knows he's alive, she might just go to his "grave" to kind of talk to him, even if he's not actually dead.

I love how people keep trying to rationalise Sun's and Hurley's reactions to justify that Jin is definetly dead. I think it's up in the air if he's alive or dead. The tombstone is a fake and we haven't seen him die yet. If Jin is missing/still on the island Sun could see the grave as the only place she can go to think about him. There is also the possibility Sun doesn't know Jin is still alive.Well, maybe some of us see a horrible lameness (not to mention emotional honesty) to the writers spending a whole episode pretending Jin is alive in the future, then revealing that he's actually dead, but later revealing that actually alive.

Voted no - he's still alive. Plus count me among those who believe that Jin's with the rest of the people stranded/deliberately chose to remain on the island after the Oceanic Six left. I don't think he faked his death.

Well, maybe some of us see a horrible lameness (not to mention emotional honesty) to the writers spending a whole episode pretending Jin is alive in the future, then revealing that he's actually dead, but later revealing that actually alive.

But the idea is that the O6 have told this story that they were the only ones who survived. This just goes to show how high the stakes really are in this lie. That she would include her husband among the dead. This illustrates the hopelessness of ever returning to the island and of the ones left behind ever being rescued. This lie is bigger than any of them individually, so much so that they keep each other in check. I think it's an incredible story twist that he would be alive on the island, but dead to the world. Why would he be any more special than the rest that they lied about?

But the idea is that the O6 have told this story that they were the only ones who survived. This just goes to show how high the stakes really are in this lie. That she would include her husband among the dead. This illustrates the hopelessness of ever returning to the island and of the ones left behind ever being rescued. This lie is bigger than any of them individually, so much so that they keep each other in check. I think it's an incredible story twist that he would be alive on the island, but dead to the world. Why would he be any more special than the rest that they lied about?Whether or not Jin is alive on the island, Sun would have had to use the official Oceanic 6 cover story anyway, so the tomb stone is a complete non-issue in this debate. If the writers wanted to show Sun's sadness at being a single mother missing her husband but keep Jin's fate ambiguous, then they should not have had her visiting his grave.

After rewatching the episode and the scene between Jin and Sun when they make up in the tent, I don't think he's dead. He specifically says to Sun that he will do whatever it takes to protect her and the baby. Maybe that means she gets off the island even if he does not. I think he's alive and stuck back on the island.

I hope I don't have to eat my words later. Maybe I'm just in denial, but I hope not. :confused:

I think that for some reason, only six people could leave the island, and Jin let Sun leave the island to protect her and the baby. Since the date on the headstone said 9/22/04, I think it was either put up when they all "died," or it was put up after the O6 got back to keep up the pretense that only six people survived the crash. Sun never said anything like, "I wish you hadn't died" or to that effect, she said "I miss you" so I think even if she knows he's alive, she might just go to his "grave" to kind of talk to him, even if he's not actually dead.

I just had a wild thought after reading your post, which I don't for a minute believe - that what if she DOES go to the "grave" to talk to him, and he can hear her!!! It's like a long-wave transmitter or something and he can hear her on the island (or wherever he is, assuming he is still alive)!!!!

Sorry, my imagination just completely ran away with me there!

Originally Posted by sawyer_luvn http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1821398#post1821398)
I think that for some reason, only six people could leave the island, and Jin let Sun leave the island to protect her and the baby. Since the date on the headstone said 9/22/04, I think it was either put up when they all "died," or it was put up after the O6 got back to keep up the pretense that only six people survived the crash. Sun never said anything like, "I wish you hadn't died" or to that effect, she said "I miss you" so I think even if she knows he's alive, she might just go to his "grave" to kind of talk to him, even if he's not actually dead.


Of the ones we know that have left, all but Aaron were quite a distance from the Swan when it imploded. Could it be that they were less affected by EMs and therefore a safer bet for leaving?

Or...Frank acted on his own and took the group closest to the chopper. A sort of now or never situation. In which case, Aaron happened to be without his mom, but in the care of Kate or Sun at that moment. Just speculating.

Frank acted on his own and took the group closest to the chopper.

Interesting speculation, since we assume he did indeed fly back to the island as has been said. Problem: We already know that the copter won't hold more than 4 people including the pilot. That leaves us with room for three, which is still one person short when you figure Sayid's already onboard the ship and the infant doesn't weigh enough to count.

Unless of course Michael goes back to being Michael, in which case it would all work out just dandy if Aaron is one of the six. But then you're dealing with pretty much every one of the options we think are the most unlikely!

- mnw

There are some outstanding points on both sides of this discussion. I feel silly even posting this but my thought jives with several of you for the side that Jin is still alive. OK I want him to be alive. I want Sun to know he's alive so this idea may stem simply from that.

Ben seems to have cameras/surveillance all over the globe. At this point we don't know how the 6 were chosen or separated. Is it possible that there is a camera in the headstone? A way for her to communicate to him at one of the stations. A deal for her life? She would miss him terribly whether he was dead or unable to communicate to her.

I just can't get past Hurley's uh, approval (?) that no one else was coming or why it took Sun till that moment to put her wedding ring back on her finger.

My thoughts on this are so incomplete at this time, but something is wrong with this scene!

The way I figure it is, Jin is dead. He dies before the O6 get off the island. But maybe because he's died recently they want to take his body with them for a proper burial. Maybe he dies helping them get off the island along with someone else and those 2 become the 2 that didn't survive of the 8 that Kate "saved from the crash".

As far as Hurley being relieved that no one else is coming when he visits Sun, maybe he just doesn't want to see those others. It's only been about 6 months, at this point, since he left Jack for Locke's group. Maybe things are still weird between all of them.

I kept hoping to see him in the cemetery, behind a tree or something... "Conspiracy Theory" style... But no Jin. :(

I believe both Sun and Hurley think he is dead. So I think so too, until further information. :17:

I don't think so

Jin is not dead. He's on the island.

If he was still alive, she wouldn't react that way.
Even if he was stuck on the island, why would she think its forever?


If she believes there is no way to get back to the island, wouldn't that basically be the same to her as if he were dead? If she thinks she's never going to see him again, then her reaction is certainly very appropriate.

If she believes there is no way to get back to the island, wouldn't that basically be the same to her as if he were dead? If she thinks she's never going to see him again, then her reaction is certainly very appropriate.

In some ways it seems almost worse if he's stuck on the island. Especially if she believes that there will never be a way to see him again. Death at least provides closure. This is pure torment. Not that I think she would wish him dead. OF course she wouldn't.

Jin isn't dead, he's back on the island with all the other folks who didn't or couldn't leave with the 6. I got the feeling that someone (Whidmore, DHARMA, whomever) is watching the 6 to see if there are still survivors on the island, so they (Sun/Hurley) have a whole show with the grave and the cemetary to keep the watchers at bay.

Makes me wonder if the all-important mystery coffin was also empty. It would explain why, when Jack asked Kate if she was going to the funeral, she repsponded by saying "Why would I"? Maybe she isn't going along with the whole fake deaths thing, so she felt there was no reason to attend a funeral for a person still living.

Nah, Jin is alive.

Jin isn't dead, he's back on the island with all the other folks who didn't or couldn't leave with the 6. I got the feeling that someone (Whidmore, DHARMA, whomever) is watching the 6 to see if there are still survivors on the island, so they (Sun/Hurley) have a whole show with the grave and the cemetary to keep the watchers at bay.

Makes me wonder if the all-important mystery coffin was also empty. It would explain why, when Jack asked Kate if she was going to the funeral, she repsponded by saying "Why would I"? Maybe she isn't going along with the whole fake deaths thing, so she felt there was no reason to attend a funeral for a person still living.

Nah, Jin is alive.

Oh, now that would be a sick twist - the coffin being empty! It seems some time has passed since they've been off the island, maybe a few years? So Kate may not feel it's all that necessary to keep up the charade but Jack is still acting out the lie. I like it! :biggrin:

That is a very intriguing idea!

A few minutes ago when I voted, I voted that Yes I think Jin is dead.. Lots of seconds passed and now I'm leaning toward him being alive on the island -- but for all intents and purposes that means he is dead to the world outside where Sun and Ji live. So depending upon what perspective - he is both alive and dead. What I think (at this moment) is that anyone stuck on the island is not really alive or a survivor since they obviously don't fit in with the lies the O6 are having to tell and if you know that you will never ever see your spouse again, or speak to them, or any communication at all.. they could be considered dead. Tombstones, graveyards, cemetaries, etc are there to memorialize the dead with or without the need for their body, bones, remains or what have you. If Sun goes to the tombstone, it serves the purpose of a memorial for Jin (who is not alive in the outside world).

HOWEVER.. one other little thought I had.. with the only unexplained part being why Sun's name isn't on the tombstone... I would think that if I was presumed dead on a plane crash, that my family would erect some sort of tombstone, memorial, etc for me.. with the date of the crash as my date of death.

A few minutes ago when I voted, I voted that Yes I think Jin is dead.. Lots of seconds passed and now I'm leaning toward him being alive on the island -- but for all intents and purposes that means he is dead to the world outside where Sun and Ji live. So depending upon what perspective - he is both alive and dead. What I think (at this moment) is that anyone stuck on the island is not really alive or a survivor since they obviously don't fit in with the lies the O6 are having to tell and if you know that you will never ever see your spouse again, or speak to them, or any communication at all.. they could be considered dead. Tombstones, graveyards, cemetaries, etc are there to memorialize the dead with or without the need for their body, bones, remains or what have you. If Sun goes to the tombstone, it serves the purpose of a memorial for Jin (who is not alive in the outside world).

HOWEVER.. one other little thought I had.. with the only unexplained part being why Sun's name isn't on the tombstone... I would think that if I was presumed dead on a plane crash, that my family would erect some sort of tombstone, memorial, etc for me.. with the date of the crash as my date of death.

A few minutes ago when I voted, I voted that Yes I think Jin is dead.. Lots of seconds passed and now I'm leaning toward him being alive on the island -- but for all intents and purposes that means he is dead to the world outside where Sun and Ji live. So depending upon what perspective - he is both alive and dead. What I think (at this moment) is that anyone stuck on the island is not really alive or a survivor since they obviously don't fit in with the lies the O6 are having to tell and if you know that you will never ever see your spouse again, or speak to them, or any communication at all.. they could be considered dead. Tombstones, graveyards, cemetaries, etc are there to memorialize the dead with or without the need for their body, bones, remains or what have you. If Sun goes to the tombstone, it serves the purpose of a memorial for Jin (who is not alive in the outside world).

HOWEVER.. one other little thought I had.. with the only unexplained part being why Sun's name isn't on the tombstone... I would think that if I was presumed dead on a plane crash, that my family would erect some sort of tombstone, memorial, etc for me.. with the date of the crash as my date of death.

Funny how none of us are buying anything that happens on this show anymore... Who knows where we are headed!!!

HOWEVER.. one other little thought I had.. with the only unexplained part being why Sun's name isn't on the tombstone... I would think that if I was presumed dead on a plane crash, that my family would erect some sort of tombstone, memorial, etc for me.. with the date of the crash as my date of death.

Hope you don't mind if I only answer once...

Sun's name IS on it, as his wife. Her date of death isn't on it, which means it's simply not HER headstone, and/or it's not the one that was erected before the O-815 survivors were rescued.

- mnw

Sorry, but....I need to see a body.

I don't think Sun would've visited a gravestone if he wasn't.

She visited the gravestone for Hurley's benefit. She wasn't sure if he was working for Ben and/or the Economist, so she's keeping up with the false story of Jin's death.

I wish he was not. But the way Sun was crying and all. I think the Jin man is dead.

I think that the date being that of the crash is an indicator that he is still alive. We know that he did not die in the crash. We know that for some reason the O6 have a cover story that all but 8 died in the crash. Sun being a survivor would mean to the rest of the world that Jin had died. The gravestone is a memorial marker for the rest of the worlds benefit.

As to the visit to the grave. Hurly came to celebrate the birth of Ji and just went to the grave site with Sun to keep up appearances of the cover story.

I wish he was not. But the way Sun was crying and all. I think the Jin man is dead.

I think SHE thinks "the Jin man" is dead, definitely. And if Jack knows otherwise, well, being aware that Sun's going through living hell for no reason just might be enough to drive a man to drown his sorrows in pills & booze, dont'cha think? (Not to mention put the island's hefty "Mr. Howell" back into the crackerbox palace, eh?)

- mnw

Oh, now that would be a sick twist - the coffin being empty! It seems some time has passed since they've been off the island, maybe a few years? So Kate may not feel it's all that necessary to keep up the charade but Jack is still acting out the lie. I like it! :biggrin:

Jin isn't dead, he's back on the island with all the other folks who didn't or couldn't leave with the 6. I got the feeling that someone (Whidmore, DHARMA, whomever) is watching the 6 to see if there are still survivors on the island, so they (Sun/Hurley) have a whole show with the grave and the cemetary to keep the watchers at bay.

Makes me wonder if the all-important mystery coffin was also empty. It would explain why, when Jack asked Kate if she was going to the funeral, she repsponded by saying "Why would I"? Maybe she isn't going along with the whole fake deaths thing, so she felt there was no reason to attend a funeral for a person still living.

Nah, Jin is alive.

Also, this may intermingle into how Kate's prosecutor was so consumed by her remaining in the state of California for 10 years. This combined with Charlie's visit to Hugo outside the mental ward submiting to him that they help the ones left back on the Island and of course future Jack's enslaving addiction to get back to the island, all give your idea here excellent footing and substructure. THIS IS GETTING FUN!

I love how people keep trying to rationalise Sun's and Hurley's reactions to justify that Jin is definetly dead. I think it's up in the air if he's alive or dead. The tombstone is a fake and we haven't seen him die yet. If Jin is missing/still on the island Sun could see the grave as the only place she can go to think about him. There is also the possibility Sun doesn't know Jin is still alive.


I totally agree.
I am not sure how, as some have said in this thread, its so "obvious" he is dead.
Its not.
If my husband and I were separated tragically and I was not sure if I would ever see him again, I'd react the same way Sun did when she was seen with Hurley and her baby. I'd look grief-stricken because being separated from your true love in such a way would cause a very similiar emotion.

I think it is premature to say he is dead.

The tombstone is not a sign he is dead either. Its not uncommon in our culture to erect memorials for those missing in action. Its done for those MIA in the armed forces, for example.

I thought that Jin was foreshadowing his death by claiming he'd do anything to keep Sun and the baby safe. But, the arguments here are convincing. Jin could have been willing to stay behind to keep this promise to Sun. :blink: Arghh - nothing is clear on this Island!