I was annoyed with Juliette ratting out Sun. I didn't think it was appropriate even given the circumstances.

I was annoyed with Juliette ratting out Sun. I didn't think it was appropriate even given the circumstances.

What about to save her from "Locke Gone Wild," who as Bernard so expertly pointed out, is a "murderer"? Wait, Juliet is a muderer too. Nevermind. I think she at least thought she was doing it for Sun's own good.

Sun was only planning on going for a couple of days. Locke wouldn't hold her hostage. He let Kate go (banished her actually). Was a 2 day visit to Lockes camp really so dangerous that it warrented risking Sun and Jin's marriage? Pissed me off.

Well, Locke is one of my favorite characters, but how do you know she was just going for a little while? I still think Juliet thought she was saving Sun's life.

It's none of her business. And Kate came back from Lockeville no problem. If rescue actually were to happen, a trot out to get Sun is easy to do. She could have ruined Sun's marriage to save her from what really?

Yeah, my first reaction about Juliet's stunt was "That (rhymes with) Witch!" Juliet used some pretty harsh tactics, but that only shows how much she believed that Sun was in danger. I guess it all worked out by the end of the episode.

I love Juliet, and to me this scene further proved her goodness as a human being. She cared enough about Sun and her baby to take drastic measures, even if it meant invoking the wrath of the very person she was trying to save.

shes a doctor. it was her job to make sure her patient lives. shes like house but on the island.

It's none of her business. And Kate came back from Lockeville no problem. If rescue actually were to happen, a trot out to get Sun is easy to do. She could have ruined Sun's marriage to save her from what really?

No, what I mean is that Juliet thinks Sun is leaving to stay at Lockeworld, and she's not coming back. Maybe out of choice, maybe not. Kate making it out of Lockeland is not proof that they will make it out. Ben is on the loose now. John stuck a freaking hand grenade in Miles' mouth!

But I digrees...what is really important is that Juliet knows Sun needs to get off the island or SHE WILL DIE! She's seen it happen over and over, and she's not going to let it happen again. She even says that to Sun. So, she does put their marriage in a terrible position, but she does it to save Sun's life, and the life of the fetusbaby, which is the most important thing. Sometimes the ends justify the means.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with Juliet's actions, just that I understand why she did what she did.

Totally agree with you, The March Hare! :biggrin: Juliet had no reason to tell Jin about the affair. She only did so as a last resort to keep them here.

son could have lost her marriage by cheating on her husband. cant blame the blond chick for that.

Sun was only planning on going for a couple of days. Locke wouldn't hold her hostage. He let Kate go (banished her actually). Was a 2 day visit to Lockes camp really so dangerous that it warrented risking Sun and Jin's marriage? Pissed me off.Wait, huh? She wasn't planning on only being gone a couple of days... the food was for the TRIP there. Sun was planning on staying on the Island. By doing what she did, Juliet saved Sun's and Ji Yeon's lives.

shes a doctor. it was her job to make sure her patient lives. shes like house but on the island.

She is a doctor and she said she was Sun's doctor....for me it was a total disregard of Doctor/Patient confidentiality....and showed a total lack of integrity.....even though in the end (thanks to Bernard, Jin was able to forgive and express his love for Sun....NO THANKS to Juliet in my books I am afraid

By doing what she did, Juliet saved Sun's and Ji Yeon's lives.

Maybe....Maybe not....until further notice it looks like Jin is dead and Sun is living alone, a single mother, with a terrible secret as one of the "06"

shes a doctor. it was her job to make sure her patient lives. shes like house but on the island.
The Hippocratic Oath (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_modern.html) includes not only the oath to save life, but the oath to safeguard all confidential information about a patient and not reveal it to anyone.

Hippocrates realized that a doctor revealing the most intimate secrets about a patient could be just as bad (if not worse) as killing him outright.

Juliet violated her oath by revealing that information. She didn't even wait to be sure that no other Lostaways were around to hear it--Bernard was nearby.

Just as when she stole pharmaceuticals to help her sister, Juliet's view of medicine is that the ends justify the means. That's her character flaw. All the Lostaways are flawed--even Jack the surgeon is no saint. Juliet's flaw is a lack of medical ethics.

Juliet fits very well with Jack in that way.. she will do anything to save a patient's life, even ruin it...

<<annoyed

She could have ruined Sun's marriage to save her from what really?

From dying.

By the way, it was Sun who had endangered her marriage by having the affair and keeping it a secret from Jin in the first place.

I agree that Juliette's interpretation of her Hippocratic Oath is quite subjective (I'm being nice about it here because I also believe she is supposed to have "caring" motives) but I LOVED stinging irony of Juliette, who was having an affair with a married man, saving Sun's life by revealing Sun's affair!! Both Juliette's and Sun's affairs resulted in the deaths of their lovers. Interesting??

Sun was only planning on going for a couple of days. Locke wouldn't hold her hostage. He let Kate go (banished her actually). Was a 2 day visit to Lockes camp really so dangerous that it warrented risking Sun and Jin's marriage? Pissed me off.

What I got out of what Sun said was that is was only a two day journey to GET there. She had no intension on coming back to the beach for rescue. She had decided she didn't trust these people based on what Dan had told her. Why else would she need to get more prenatal vitimans if she was coming back to the beach? Juliette said she had a 20 day supply left.

I agree with Juliette's motives, just not her tactics. I thought she entered an area she had no right in.

To me, it seemed like a move that Ben would have made if he was in that situation.

She is a doctor and she said she was Sun's doctor....for me it was a total disregard of Doctor/Patient confidentiality....and showed a total lack of integrity.....even though in the end (thanks to Bernard, Jin was able to forgive and express his love for Sun....NO THANKS to Juliet in my books I am afraid
Juliet has been through hell & back since arriving on that island, watching mother after mother, and all of their unborn babies, slip into comas and die. They brought her on board to STOP that from happening. She couldn't do it. So her "betrayal" of the doctor/patient confidentiality, in this case, I think can be forgiven. Extreme circumstances, measures, and all that. It's not like they're in a nice, cushy LA office/hospital. They're in the wild. Juliet's main concern was getting Sun and her baby to safety, by any means necessary. Let Sun work out her marital issues with Jin back in the real world, where her life isn't in danger of ending.

And though it wasn't Juliet's secret to tell, I do think Jin deserved to know the truth. Sun is by no means innocent in this situation.


Maybe....Maybe not....until further notice it looks like Jin is dead and Sun is living alone, a single mother, with a terrible secret as one of the "06"
I don't think there's any "maybe not" in this scenario. Juliet saved Sun and Ji Yeon's lives by doing what she did. If she hadn't pulled that information out in a desperate last-ditch effort, then Sun and Jin would have gone to Otherville. Sun would not have gotten off the Island, and as far as we or Juliet know, she and the baby would have died.

I'm betting that, 7 months down the road from that moment, if you were to ask Sun "do you still blame/hate Juliet for ratting you out to Jin?", she'd take one look at her healthy baby girl and say "not a chance in Hades." ;)

Here's the soundtrack from my living room during that scene:

Juliet, no you didn't!

Slap her, Sun! Slap her. Slap her. Slap her already!

YES!

----

Juliet definitely crossed a line there. I do think she did it for what she thought was a noble reason -- if Sun goes with Locke and stays on the island she is assured death for herself and her child. If she stays with Jack there is a chance she can get off the island and possibly save one if not both lives.

Juliet's motives were honorable even if her approach was severely flawed.

Juliet made a decision to do whatever she could to keep Sun on that beach. Agree or disagree with it, you have to admit that it's very much a Ben tactic. Do whatever you can to preserve what you deem most vital... Looks like she's still got some Other blood in her after all.

Juliet did the right thing. Jin deserved to know that his wife was screwing around on him.....whether it was Juliets place to say so or not is irrelevent. Sun was never going to tell him. So at least now he knows and he proved he is a way better person than Sun.

Sun isn't bad for cheating, everyone makes mistakes, but to keep it a secret is just plain wrong when its a secret from someone you "love". Two wrongs don't make a right, and pretending like it never happened is not the right thing to do.

That makes Sun a bad person....it wouldn't break my heart one bit if she died.

Being discussed here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=92010).

She is a doctor and she said she was Sun's doctor....for me it was a total disregard of Doctor/Patient confidentiality....and showed a total lack of integrity.....even though in the end (thanks to Bernard, Jin was able to forgive and express his love for Sun....NO THANKS to Juliet in my books I am afraid

Maybe....Maybe not....until further notice it looks like Jin is dead and Sun is living alone, a single mother, with a terrible secret as one of the "06"

Exactly! She had no right to say what she did. Juliet and Kate could have gotten Jack to talk to Sun, too. Between the three of them they could have convinced her to stay. And if they had made things clearer to Jin he would have not agreed to go.

But what does Juliet care. She had an affair with Goodwin even though she knew he was married. She continued to have the affair even after she found out his wife knew and warned her that she could be jepardizing Goodwin's safety. She didn't care if she made matters worse with that marriage and she didn't care if she broke up Sun's marriage. She only cares about herself. She needs to go back to Ben, imo. They deserve each other.

Also, since when did she become Sun's doctor? So she gives her prenatal vitamins. She's a researcher, FGS! She didn't even know how to hold the clamp Jack gave her when operating on Ben. I'd stick with Jack as my default doctor if I were Sun.

The writers did this for pure shock value and it worked. I was stunned! It's such a violation of doctor/patient confidentiality that in the real world Juliet would have been suspended from her job until a hearing and probably sued by Sun. And she had no idea if it would work. Sun may have just given up then and gone anyway to Locke's camp. Awful writing, imo.

No, what I mean is that Juliet thinks Sun is leaving to stay at Lockeworld, and she's not coming back. Maybe out of choice, maybe not. Kate making it out of Lockeland is not proof that they will make it out. Ben is on the loose now. John stuck a freaking hand grenade in Miles' mouth!

But I digrees...what is really important is that Juliet knows Sun needs to get off the island or SHE WILL DIE! She's seen it happen over and over, and she's not going to let it happen again. She even says that to Sun. So, she does put their marriage in a terrible position, but she does it to save Sun's life, and the life of the fetusbaby, which is the most important thing. Sometimes the ends justify the means.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with Juliet's actions, just that I understand why she did what she did.

I don't see it that way. She wasn't necessarily "leaving for Locke town and not coming back"... it was moreso "I really dont trust these Freighties, and Im getting out of here until the dust settles."

Juliet, though, didn't like that and had to make sure she would not miss this opportunity to get off the island.

Here's the soundtrack from my living room during that scene:

Juliet, no you didn't!

Slap her, Sun! Slap her. Slap her. Slap her already!

YES!


LOL Same here, except I was saying "Punch her!"

I love Juliet, and to me this scene further proved her goodness as a human being. She cared enough about Sun and her baby to take drastic measures, even if it meant invoking the wrath of the very person she was trying to save.

Sun was her patient, of course she cares what's going to happen to her and the baby.

I called the slap to the face right before she did it. That's what women do. LOL!

Ya know, I started out hating Juliet, but I've come around to liking her character. I still don't like her kissing my Jack, but that's ok. :drowsy: :biggrin:

No question in my opinion that it was totally unnecessary to reveal that to Jin. Juliet was just as convincing at getting Sun to stay by telling her what was going to happen to her week by week (the scene with the two of them on the beach). She could have just as easily used that tactic instead of revealing Sun's affair.

Juliet has been through hell & back since arriving on that island, watching mother after mother, and all of their unborn babies, slip into comas and die. They brought her on board to STOP that from happening. She couldn't do it. So her "betrayal" of the doctor/patient confidentiality, in this case, I think can be forgiven. Extreme circumstances, measures, and all that. It's not like they're in a nice, cushy LA office/hospital. They're in the wild. Juliet's main concern was getting Sun and her baby to safety, by any means necessary. Let Sun work out her marital issues with Jin back in the real world, where her life isn't in danger of ending.

And though it wasn't Juliet's secret to tell, I do think Jin deserved to know the truth. Sun is by no means innocent in this situation.


I don't think there's any "maybe not" in this scenario. Juliet saved Sun and Ji Yeon's lives by doing what she did. If she hadn't pulled that information out in a desperate last-ditch effort, then Sun and Jin would have gone to Otherville. Sun would not have gotten off the Island, and as far as we or Juliet know, she and the baby would have died.

I'm betting that, 7 months down the road from that moment, if you were to ask Sun "do you still blame/hate Juliet for ratting you out to Jin?", she'd take one look at her healthy baby girl and say "not a chance in Hades." ;)

ITA with everything you've said... :biggrin:

It's none of her business. And Kate came back from Lockeville no problem. If rescue actually were to happen, a trot out to get Sun is easy to do. She could have ruined Sun's marriage to save her from what really?

Juliet could have ruined Sun and Jin's marriage? I don't see that, Juliet wasn't the one who cheated on Jin, it was SUN. Last I checked, Sun cheated on Jin, not Juliet. Sun would be the reason for a ruined marriage if anything, since she was the unfaithful, lying adulterer. I'm not a fan of Sun, she's too much like her father. Her cheating on Jin isn't the only lie she's told either, she's still got quite a few skeletons in her closet.

And it is her business, there is an innocent child involved here. Juliet is trying to do what's best for Sun and the baby.

BINGO! Sun is a excuse my language....a piece of $#!+.....Juliet was 100% right in what she did. Jin deserved to know......everything else is irrelevent. Sun wasn't going to tell him ever, so Juliet did. Its as simple as that, he deserved to know.

No question in my opinion that it was totally unnecessary to reveal that to Jin. Juliet was just as convincing at getting Sun to stay by telling her what was going to happen to her week by week (the scene with the two of them on the beach). She could have just as easily used that tactic instead of revealing Sun's affair.

Juliet was desperate. The Kwons were packed and were walking out of camp. She had to think fast. Trying to explain "danger" to Jin wasn't working, and Sun wasn't budging on her decision to leave. Juliet had to go to extremes, and I'm sure that's the first thing that came to her.

Fact is, the writers did need to wrap that loose end up...Jin did deserve to find out about Sun's affair, so they could work past it. Juliet was a means to an end, but it was also a very important moment for the fate of the Oceanic 6. Sun stays on Island, and we lose yet another female character. So Juliet's actions saved her, and Sun's infidelity was resolved. Two birds, one stone. Okay in my book. :)

No question in my opinion that it was totally unnecessary to reveal that to Jin. Juliet was just as convincing at getting Sun to stay by telling her what was going to happen to her week by week (the scene with the two of them on the beach). She could have just as easily used that tactic instead of revealing Sun's affair.

No, it was necessary and it worked. Sun and Jin were leaving when Juliet told Jin this. If she hadn't told Jin they would have left. There was no time to talk rationally with Sun because she wasn't listening to what Juliet was saying. Once Juliet spilled the beans, it allowed more time to have a much more rational conversation with Sun. And lo and behold, Sun and Jin made up (because Jin has forgiveness in his heart) and Sun and Ji Yeon are alive. Seems to have all worked out in the end. So what's the problem?

I still don't get where the problem is. Juliet didn't rat Sun out to ruin her marriage or whatnot, she did it to save her life and the life of her baby. And I'm sorry but Sun had it coming because she's also a big time liar and manipulator. She already lied when she was a little girl and didn't care if it cost an old lady her job. I'm also surprised that nobody seems to care that Sun is still keeping her medical condition from Jin. Doesn't he have a right to know that his wife is going to die if she doesn't get off the island? I have the feeling too many people are still stuck on first impressions when it comes to certain characters on the show.

Having Juliet rat out Sun (whether you liked it or not) was necessary to set the table for the rest of the episode, especially the touching scene between Bernard and Jin in the boat, followed by Jin's forgiveness of Sun. They're closer for it and it makes Jin's death (?) more heartbreaking.

Juliet wants Sun to trust her and then blurts out Sun's most intimate secret? This will make Sun trust her? Whaaa?? I mention again, like a few other posters, what about doctor/patient confidentiality? That means you don't tell ANYONE, Juliet. And when did Sun become her "patient" anyway? I thought Juliet was a researcher, not an OB/GYN.

Sun said, "It's not your place," and she's totally right---a doctor can give you options and advice and recommendations, but then the choice is up to you. Interfering in personal lives is not the doctor's job.

I've liked Juliet up to now, but she's crossed a line for me...

No, it was necessary and it worked. Sun and Jin were leaving when Juliet told Jin this. If she hadn't told Jin they would have left. There was no time to talk rationally with Sun because she wasn't listening to what Juliet was saying. Once Juliet spilled the beans, it allowed more time to have a much more rational conversation with Sun. And lo and behold, Sun and Jin made up (because Jin has forgiveness in his heart) and Sun and Ji Yeon are alive. Seems to have all worked out in the end. So what's the problem?

No, it worked because that's the course the writers chose to take. My beef is that they did it for pure shock value. As someone else said, the conversation Juliet had with Sun later on the beach could have happened when Sun first wanted to leave. Juliet could have told Sun about the other women who have died and they could have gotten Jin to understand. Remember he says he understands English better than he speaks it. I know there are some who will say they weren't shocked by it but I believe most viewers didn't see that coming so the writers got the "OMG!" moment they were looking for. IMO, they could have given us something else to gasp at, like something pertinent to the show's mysteries, and spared us the cheap soap opera tactics.

Her argument that Sun is her patient is weak at best.

No, it worked because that's the course the writers chose to take. My beef is that they did it for pure shock value. As someone else said, the conversation Juliet had with Sun later on the beach could have happened when Sun first wanted to leave. Juliet could have told Sun about the other women who have died and they could have gotten Jin to understand. Remember he says he understands English better than he speaks it. I know there are some who will say they weren't shocked by it but I believe most viewers didn't see that coming so the writers got the "OMG!" moment they were looking for. IMO, they could have given us something else to gasp at, like something pertinent to the show's mysteries, and spared us the cheap soap opera tactics.

Juliet was trying to have that exact conversation with Sun while they were leaving. Sun wasn't listening, so Juliet did what she could so she could get more time to tell Sun what she needed to hear.

Juliet has been through hell & back since arriving on that island, watching mother after mother, and all of their unborn babies, slip into comas and die. They brought her on board to STOP that from happening. She couldn't do it. So her "betrayal" of the doctor/patient confidentiality, in this case, I think can be forgiven. Extreme circumstances, measures, and all that. It's not like they're in a nice, cushy LA office/hospital. They're in the wild. Juliet's main concern was getting Sun and her baby to safety, by any means necessary. Let Sun work out her marital issues with Jin back in the real world, where her life isn't in danger of ending.

And though it wasn't Juliet's secret to tell, I do think Jin deserved to know the truth. Sun is by no means innocent in this situation.


I don't think there's any "maybe not" in this scenario. Juliet saved Sun and Ji Yeon's lives by doing what she did. If she hadn't pulled that information out in a desperate last-ditch effort, then Sun and Jin would have gone to Otherville. Sun would not have gotten off the Island, and as far as we or Juliet know, she and the baby would have died.

I'm betting that, 7 months down the road from that moment, if you were to ask Sun "do you still blame/hate Juliet for ratting you out to Jin?", she'd take one look at her healthy baby girl and say "not a chance in Hades." ;)

And

Juliet was trying to have that exact conversation with Sun while they were leaving. Sun wasn't listening, so Juliet did what she could so she could get more time to tell Sun what she needed to hear.

Those are reasons enough, not to mention that Sun made this bed. What is funny is that Juliet is the Beacon of Truth...

As I posted on a similar thread, I also think that Juliet is out for herself and to get off the island, hence why she still lies and is working both sides with Ben and Jack. She wants off this island.

Oh and as for the confidentiality, please, they are stranded on an island in the middle of nowhere. If I am in her shoes, yeah, that confidentiality can bite me. But also a Doctor has the choice, if a patient says, I am going to murder someone today to report that person to the police. Confidentiality does NOT apply. So if you want to view the unborn as her committing murder then Juliet broke nothing.

Oh and as for the confidentiality, please, they are stranded on an island in the middle of nowhere. If I am in her shoes, yeah, that confidentiality can bite me.

:rotflmao2: Too funny!

that scene showed me just how much english jin really understands! i've always thought that he understands and speaks english a lot better than he lets on, that sun wasn't the only one taking english lessons

that scene showed me just how much english jin really understands! i've always thought that he understands and speaks english a lot better than he lets on, that sun wasn't the only one taking english lessons

I know, Jin was even speaking better English than a lot of posters here (myself included at times)

Juliette did not have to rat out Sun. She did not know it would make Sun stay. Personally it would have driven me FURTHER from her and her brand of medical "CARE".

What ever happened to the " Do know harm " of the doctors oath? Juliette did not know Jin wouldn't lose it and try and KILL Sun (or just smack her around). Come on he's better now but before he wasn't exactly Mr. Passivity.

As a person in the medical field Juliette should know better then to tell patient secrets. Not even if it would help another can you do something to reveal your patient 's status.

If Juliette wanted Sun to stay she should have sat Jin down and tried to explain if Sun stays on the island she and baby only have weeks to live not that Sun is a cheating deceiver.

That Sun cheated on Jin was between Sun and Jin. It was NOT Juliette's secret to reveal. I mean if Juliette wanted truth in all things she could have told Jack. " That lady I met in the woods she was my therapist --- oh and I was screwing her husband right before meeting you. He's dead now , killed for posing as a Tailie. Love you.":rolleyes:

I think there was some other reason Jules didn't want Sun to go. I've never all the way trusted her and when she did that, my first thought was "I really hate her now". I think she's the girl version of Ben. She preys on people's convictions to get her way. And this whole "you're my patient" crap...heck, she just gave her a sonogram and pre-nates. She ain't no doctor...she admitted that. She's a "fertility researcher". I hate her, man. She's frickin evil! Evil I tell you!

I think there was some other reason Jules didn't want Sun to go. I've never all the way trusted her and when she did that, my first thought was "I really hate her now". I think she's the girl version of Ben. She preys on people's convictions to get her way. And this whole "you're my patient" crap...heck, she just gave her a sonogram and pre-nates. She ain't no doctor...she admitted that. She's a "fertility researcher". I hate her, man. She's frickin evil! Evil I tell you!

But at least Ben is funny. She's at a level of annoyance for me right now that's so high I kinda wanna hit her. But then Sun did it for me.

I think there was some other reason Jules didn't want Sun to go. I've never all the way trusted her and when she did that, my first thought was "I really hate her now". I think she's the girl version of Ben. She preys on people's convictions to get her way. And this whole "you're my patient" crap...heck, she just gave her a sonogram and pre-nates. She ain't no doctor...she admitted that. She's a "fertility researcher". I hate her, man. She's frickin evil! Evil I tell you!



Right on Fishbiscuit!!! I was beginning to think I was the only one who doesn't think her "tortured" past absolves her from the manipulative and despicable things she has done to further her own agenda.

I think she saw her position as Sun's supposed "doctor" as her shot at getting off the Island with her ASAP. She knew Sun's daddy was powerful and would want the best care for his daughter so why not create a necessity for herself as Sun's doctor?

But at least Ben is funny. She's at a level of annoyance for me right now that's so high I kinda wanna hit her. But then Sun did it for me.

Oh don't get me wrong - Ben is my favorite character. You're right - her slump-shoulder and Joker-mouth would annoy the Pope. I'm tellin ya, she'll wind up back at Benny's side cuz she's weak. She's a Ben wannabe. A "Bennabe" hee hee hee:D

I thought that the "ratting out" episode was the single worst contrived plot element in the entire series. The character of Juliette had previously done nothing to indicate she would do something like this, and there did not even seem to be a logic behind her action. It was simply an incredibly clumsy plot contrivance that made me want to turn off the television.

Tsk tsk and shame on everyone involved.

I thought that the "ratting out" episode was the single worst contrived plot element in the entire series. The character of Juliette had previously done nothing to indicate she would do something like this, and there did not even seem to be a logic behind her action. It was simply an incredibly clumsy plot contrivance that made me want to turn off the television.

Tsk tsk and shame on everyone involved.

I have to respectfully disagree, Pitman. She's been manipulative from day one. She's a pawn. She bought Harper's bit hook line & sinker. She has some other reason she wants Sun around and I think it has Ben's fingerprints all over it. We'll find out in time.

I have to say my reaction was shock. "What the ...." Anger. Because it seemed false. A misstep in the writing. Done for shock value. Not real. And I LOVE LOVE LOVE Juliet and hated hating her.

But by the end of the show, and certainly after the fishing scene with that wonderful instant karma moment of the fish hitting, I knew they did it for the obvious dramatic potential and were right. The information, The Affair, had to come out. I had almost forgotten about it. And WHAM, just when I least expected it...and delivered by the worst person possible. We trusted her. So coldly delivered.

So it was another "gotcha" moment, like when we learned about Jin's death and flashback.

I really think that Juliet had other motives for keeping Sun under her watchful eye.

One, Juliet, in explaining to Sun why she just violated doctor/patient confidentiality, pretends to have done it because she is a principled doctor.

But principled doctors don't break confidentiality like that. Serious ethical violation there. Juliet totally had to option of going up to Sun and saying "Sun, if you don't come back to the beach, I will reveal all your secrets to Jin right now." She didn't.

I really hate that woman.

I really think that Juliet had other motives for keeping Sun under her watchful eye.

One, Juliet, in explaining to Sun why she just violated doctor/patient confidentiality, pretends to have done it because she is a principled doctor.

But principled doctors don't break confidentiality like that. Serious ethical violation there. Juliet totally had to option of going up to Sun and saying "Sun, if you don't come back to the beach, I will reveal all your secrets to Jin right now." She didn't.

I really hate that woman.

Actually, she did do that in her first conversation with Sun but Sun thought she was bluffing and didn't take it seriously. That's why Sun had it coming for her.

Also, since when did she become Sun's doctor? So she gives her prenatal vitamins.
... It's such a violation of doctor/patient confidentiality that in the real world Juliet would have been suspended from her job until a hearing and probably sued by Sun.
In the real world, it's not a violation of doctor/patient confidentiality if the patient is a danger to herself and/or others, which she was. And of course, if you don't consider Juliette to be Sun's doctor, then it can't be a violation of doctor/patient confidentiality for that reason either!

Actually, she did do that in her first conversation with Sun but Sun thought she was bluffing and didn't take it seriously. That's why Sun had it coming for her.

No she didn't. Juliet just blurted it out there without even trying to scowl her that she was going to tell Jin, and Sun was surprised.

And most definitely yes, she has ulterior motives about wanting Sun to stay there. That's Juliet. :chair:

No she didn't. Juliet just blurted it out there without even trying to scowl her that she was going to tell Jin, and Sun was surprised.

And most definitely yes, she has ulterior motives about wanting Sun to stay there. That's Juliet. :chair:

No, that's not Juliet, but the show. Jin needed to be notified of Sun's affair for the movement of the show. Then Jin could forgive her and move on. What better episode to do this than in the one where Jin is supposedly dead? If Juliet had done as you suggest, then the affair would still be a secret, and we wouldn't have any closure on Sun's affair. This way we at least got it before we're shown that Jin is "dead". It's another early issue that has finally been addressed and resolved, and I think the way it was done fits perfectly. But that's just me...............

hmmmm... my humble opinion...Juliet did her 'job' by informing Sun of her health condition, the danger she was in and Sun's options. Any thing after that was up to Sun. Juliet was WRONG in telling Jin of the affair. It was none of her business after that , nor even before, for that matter. How many of us want our Doctors to rule our lives? to decide what is right for us, regardless of our wishes, and act accordingly? For that matter, Juliet wasnt' even her Doctor. She did her best to talk Sun out of moving, it should have ended there.

Do you think that Juliet feels that she will be more likely to be rescued if Sun gets rescued? Like "I have to come along because I'm Sun's doctor." Wow I hadn't thought of that.

One thing I was wondering about is why she didn't try to get Sun on the helicopter the first time it left, with Sayid and Desmond... becase Sayid eventually said let's take Naomi's body, but there was room for one more. Maybe she just wasn't thinking about it at the time...

Well Sun did ask Juliet "You really want off this island?" and when Juliet replied "More than anything in the world" I definitely believe her....

Juliet has been through hell & back since arriving on that island, watching mother after mother, and all of their unborn babies, slip into comas and die. They brought her on board to STOP that from happening. She couldn't do it. So her "betrayal" of the doctor/patient confidentiality, in this case, I think can be forgiven. Extreme circumstances, measures, and all that. It's not like they're in a nice, cushy LA office/hospital. They're in the wild. Juliet's main concern was getting Sun and her baby to safety, by any means necessary. Let Sun work out her marital issues with Jin back in the real world, where her life isn't in danger of ending.

And though it wasn't Juliet's secret to tell, I do think Jin deserved to know the truth. Sun is by no means innocent in this situation.


I don't think there's any "maybe not" in this scenario. Juliet saved Sun and Ji Yeon's lives by doing what she did. If she hadn't pulled that information out in a desperate last-ditch effort, then Sun and Jin would have gone to Otherville. Sun would not have gotten off the Island, and as far as we or Juliet know, she and the baby would have died.

I'm betting that, 7 months down the road from that moment, if you were to ask Sun "do you still blame/hate Juliet for ratting you out to Jin?", she'd take one look at her healthy baby girl and say "not a chance in Hades." ;)

I agree she may have technically violated Doctor-Patient Confidentiality BUT....ethically a doctor can break "confidentiality" if someone's life is in danger...if they are at "imminent risk of harm". IMO,Juliet honestly believed she was saving not only Sun's life but the life of their then unborn child.

I don't understand why the focus of the discussion here is on trying to somehow find a rationalization for what Juliet did in the episode. The focus should be on the meta-level: why did the writers/producers decide to have Juliet do such an about-face? Did they adequately think it through, or did they reach for the first plot contrivance they could think of?

Good point. I have to admit, it feels a little contrive-y to me...

I understand where Juliet was coming from in this instance, but I don't think she should have thrown the doctor/patient confidentiality to the wind. :ohwell:

In reading these, I have to ask - does anyone remember Juliet's initial flashback where she lost EVERY SINGLE mother and baby on the island and how distraught she was over them? Can't that reason, not wanting to helplessly watch another mother and baby die after seeing so many, be reason enough for her to do ANYTHING to keep Sun in a place where she believes is best for her and not have there be some sinister ulterior motive?

Keep in mind she's been under Ben's thumb for 3 years as well trying to keep her relationship with Goodwin as secret as possible (as good as that did), so yeah she's picked up some of the elusiveness that just comes from being in that environment. But, I do not believe she herself, now "free" at Camp Jack, has anything sinister planned. She may, at some point in the future, have to make a decision between betraying someone to leave the island or stay behind, and I'm not 100% convinced she wouldn't attempt to do the former. But, I'm pretty sure as of right now, she's got nothing up her sleeve.

Was it not Juliet's place to rat out Sun to Jin? Perhaps. But it was Sun who forced her hand. Sun has tried to keep Jin in the dark as much as possible. Which makes the information he receives skewed by her. Juliet had no other option. Sun wasn't going to believe her. Jin didn't know enough of the facts to understand the potential consequences of moving to Camp Locke (due to sun keeping jin in the dark). The only thing she had left was an attempt to disrupt his trust in his wife. And it worked, though I'm sure it was a hard to decision for her to make.

I haven't liked Sun for the past 3 seasons now because of how she always tries to keep everything from Jin. She continually betrays her husband and exploits his lack of speaking/understanding English. She's been more honest with complete strangers on the island than she has her own husband. That's just messed up. So it was good to see more resolution in the respect of "coming clean". It had to happen like it did, imo, because as others have pointed out, Sun would have taken that secret with her to the grave if she could.

In reading these, I have to ask - does anyone remember Juliet's initial flashback where she lost EVERY SINGLE mother and baby on the island and how distraught she was over them? Can't that reason, not wanting to helplessly watch another mother and baby die after seeing so many, be reason enough for her to do ANYTHING to keep Sun in a place where she believes is best for her and not have there be some sinister ulterior motive?

Sure, but the way she went about it, she could have potentially damaged Sun and Jin's relationship permanently. If Jin had not forgiven Sun for her infidelity, then JiYeon would have grown up without her biological father and Sun would forever carry that guilt around with her.

Sure, but the way she went about it, she could have potentially damaged Sun and Jin's relationship permanently. If Jin had not forgiven Sun for her infidelity, then their baby would have grown up without her biological father and Sun would forever carry that guilt around with her.

Which is why it's called a last ditch effort, because there's usually a higher cost involved. In this case, the cost was potentially ruining Sun and Jin's marriage. Her goal was to save Sun and the baby's life. And in her view, and mine too, saving their lives is more important than keeping a marriage intact.

Which is why it's called a last ditch effort, because there's usually a higher cost involved. In this case, the cost was potentially ruining Sun and Jin's marriage. Her goal was to save Sun and the baby's life. And in her view, and mine too, saving their lives is more important than keeping a marriage intact.

I just don't agree. Certainly, Juliet could have thought of another way to keep Sun from going to Locke's camp other than potentially destroying her marriage. Imo, if Juliet cared so much for Sun to save both her and the babies life, then she should have known the repercussions of her last ditch effort and tried to come up with something else.

Sure, but the way she went about it, she could have potentially damaged Sun and Jin's relationship permanently.

Again, Juliet wouldn't have damaged Sun and Jin's relationship, Sun would have since she was the one who cheated on Jin, not Juliet.

If Jin had not forgiven Sun for her infidelity, then JiYeon would have grown up without her biological father and Sun would forever carry that guilt around with her.

At least Ji Yeon and Sun would be alive. If Jin hadn't forgiven Sun, it doesn't mean he wouldn't have been involved in Ji Yeon's life. And it would have been nice for Sun to have felt some sort of guilt since she's been lying to Jin about many things for awhile and doesn't seem to be too bothered by them.

Again, Juliet wouldn't have damaged Sun and Jin's relationship, Sun would have since she was the one who cheated on Jin, not Juliet.

True, but what I'm struggling with the most in this instance was the break in the doctor/patient confidentially clause. Even as a last ditch effort, what Juliet did was still wrong and I'm a big fan of hers.

At least Ji Yeon would be alive. And it would have been nice for Sun to have felt some sort of guilt since she's been lying to Jin about many things for awhile and doesn't seem to be too bothered by them.

Sun has felt guilt. In many cases where we saw her with Jin, she has behaved, imo like she was struggling with keeping that secret from him.

Imo, if Juliet cared so much for Sun to save both her and the babies life, then she should have known the repercussions of her last ditch effort and tried to come up with something else.

See you hit the nail on the head here, Juliet cares about Sun and Ji Yeons LIFE. All Juliet cares about is that Sun and Ji Yeon don't die, if she breaks hearts along the way, so be it, at least they are alive. If it means Sun's going hate Juliet for the rest of her life, who cares, at least Sun has more life to live and a daughter as well.

Sun has felt guilt. In many cases where we saw her with Jin, she has behaved, imo like she was struggling with keeping that secret from him.

Well not guilty enough to actually tell Jin though.;)

True, but what I'm struggling with the most in this instance was the break in the doctor/patient confidentially clause. Even as a last ditch effort, what Juliet did was still wrong and I'm a big fan of hers.


From a viewpoint of breaking doctor/patient confidentiality, she was wrong. Absolutely. Again, referring to the last ditch effort, that's exactly what it is. There are no other options - at all (at least in the person's mind). So, you can add violating the Hipocratic oath to that cost as well. It was wrong. But it was justified.

What this scene ultimately does is further drive home the theme that doing the right thing isn't always doing a good thing.

I just want to bring something to light here....

*****They are living on a beach on an island*****

Doctor/Patient rules do not apply...nor will they ever. What's Sun gonna do...sue her? :lol:

She can tell Jin, Jack, Vincent, or the trees anything she wants at anytime. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter. I don't think her character cares if Sun likes her...she's just tired of mothers dying.

True, but what I'm struggling with the most in this instance was the break in the doctor/patient confidentially clause. Even as a last ditch effort, what Juliet did was still wrong and I'm a big fan of hers.

I actually don't have a problem with the confidentiality issue. In the Hippocratic Oath, there is a section on doctor patient confidentiality BUT there is also a section on doing what's BEST FOR THE PATIENT. Following the Hippocratic Oath will cause conflicts sometime as in this instance. What was best for Sun and Ji Yeon was them staying alive.

Now in the analogy that people brought up here about "if Juliet was off the island, she'd be sued and lose her license" well that's just a poor analogy, but even if this did happen (which it wouldn't) fine, Juliet may or may not lose her license. If she could prove she did what was in the best interest for the patient, I don't think she would lose her license. Would Sun sue her, again maybe, maybe not. If Juliet could prove that Sun and Ji Yeon would have died, I don't think Sun would have sued Juliet, or if she had I think it would have been thrown out. But again, comparing to what would have happened if they weren't on the Island is just not a very good analogy.

I'm still way on the fence with this. I agree that desperate times call for desperate measures, and I do like Juliet an awful lot..... but, I just can't stop thinking that what she did was just plain out of line. On the other hand, they were already on their way to Locke's camp, there wasn't much time left to try to convince(force) them to stay.

I just want to bring something to light here....

*****They are living on a beach on an island*****

Doctor/Patient rules do not apply...nor will they ever. What's Sun gonna do...sue her? :lol:



Just because they are on an island doesn't mean that they (especially the doctors) still cannot be ethical, does it?
100%
Well not guilty enough to actually tell Jin though.;)

Well, I'm of the belief that most adulterers would not show any remorse over their actions. Sun's guilt was written all over her face imo and just because she didn't tell Jin directly what she did, doesn't mean that it didn't cause her much pain and grief. And how many cheating women would actually tell their husbands, "hey honey, I slept with another man? " lol.

Well, I'm of the belief that most adulterers would not show any remorse over their actions. Sun's guilt was written all over her face imo and just because she didn't tell Jin directly what she did, doesn't mean that it didn't cause her much pain and grief. And how many cheating women would actually tell their husbands, "hey honey, I slept with another man? " lol.

Yep, so much pain and grief that she thought getting close to Michael and nearly kissing him would help things out I guess.....:shrug:

And you're right Sun had no intention of ever telling Jin about the affair because her character would never do it. Sun is very similar in ways to her daddy. So the writers needed that secret to be revealed and Juliet was the device to do it.

I also love Juliet's character, and I actually think more of her for doing what she did. She felt doing what she did was the right thing to do, even if it would cause some people to hate her, yet she did it anyway. That took alot of guts, and I like her more for it.

No she didn't. Juliet just blurted it out there without even trying to scowl her that she was going to tell Jin, and Sun was surprised.

And most definitely yes, she has ulterior motives about wanting Sun to stay there. That's Juliet. :chair:

Yes, she did. It was subtle but she did warn Sun. Juliet told Sun "After everything you confided in me (meaning the affair), I should at least have your trust (meaning because I didn't blurt it out)." Some people are really letting their hatred for a character cloud their judgment.
100%
I don't understand why the focus of the discussion here is on trying to somehow find a rationalization for what Juliet did in the episode. The focus should be on the meta-level: why did the writers/producers decide to have Juliet do such an about-face? Did they adequately think it through, or did they reach for the first plot contrivance they could think of?

The only contrived thing about this for me was that Jin understood the word affair (a word that he probably won't get teached by Sun and it's also not a word that you are going to hear very often on the island) while he didn't understand a word like danger. I think the latter is a far more common word on the island and should therefore be easier to pick up for a guy who doesn't speak/understand the English language.

Yep, so much pain and grief that she thought getting close to Michael and nearly kissing him would help things out I guess.....:shrug:

LOL, I think that was a writers snafu. Do you notice that Lost writers just CANNOT write romance lol? It fails almost every time. I think the writers were trying their luck with a possible triangle involving Michael, Sun and Jin way back in the day and that fell flat on it's face.

I also love Juliet's character, and I actually think more of her for doing what she did. She felt doing what she did was the right thing to do, even if it would cause some people to hate her, yet she did it anyway. That took alot of guts, and I like her more for it.

I'm a big fan of Jules myself, but that doesn't mean I can't constructively criticize her when I think she's wrong. ;) I would have done the same thing with Jack or Locke, so I don't think I'm just picking on her for the sake of picking on her. You're right though, what she did was very daring and I applaud her for talking to Sun afterwards about why she did it. It sure makes her act a lot more forgiving that way. :)

I'm a big fan of Jules myself, but that doesn't mean I can't constructively criticize her when I think she's wrong. ;)

Criticize away!! I really like Jack too but there have been times I would have given him a good 'ol swift kick in the butt. :biggrin: The decisions some of these people make sometimes just boggle me.......

Criticize away!! I really like Jack too but there have been times I would have given him a good 'ol swift kick in the butt. :biggrin: The decisions some of these people make sometimes just boggle me.......

LOL, me too. There are times that I'm thinking, "Jack, what are you doing bud?" lol. But then I stop and think, the writers created these characters that are behaving so out of character. So I blame the writers. :biggrin:

Was it not Juliet's place to rat out Sun to Jin? Perhaps. But it was Sun who forced her hand. Sun has tried to keep Jin in the dark as much as possible. Which makes the information he receives skewed by her. Juliet had no other option. Sun wasn't going to believe her. Jin didn't know enough of the facts to understand the potential consequences of moving to Camp Locke (due to sun keeping jin in the dark). The only thing she had left was an attempt to disrupt his trust in his wife. And it worked, though I'm sure it was a hard to decision for her to make.

I haven't liked Sun for the past 3 seasons now because of how she always tries to keep everything from Jin. She continually betrays her husband and exploits his lack of speaking/understanding English. She's been more honest with complete strangers on the island than she has her own husband. That's just messed up. So it was good to see more resolution in the respect of "coming clean". It had to happen like it did, imo, because as others have pointed out, Sun would have taken that secret with her to the grave if she could.

Good points...... but you also confess to not liking Sun's character ..... so you have sided with Juliet....both woman have revealed themselves as woman who have embraced infidelity as a "viable" option when stuggling or isolated.....yet basically both woman have violated a 'code of ethics' relationship wise no matter what spin one wants to put on it (aside from the doctor/patient confidentiality re Juliet)....which many of you have constructively pondered and I can see your views and they are valid....the confidentiality agreement for both Doctors and Psychologists is null and void if 'death' or "murder" or "suicide" are seriously a threat

Sure, but the way she went about it, she could have potentially damaged Sun and Jin's relationship permanently. If Jin had not forgiven Sun for her infidelity, then JiYeon would have grown up without her biological father and Sun would forever carry that guilt around with her.

Not only could Juliet have damaged their marital relationship beyond repair.......yes (thanks to Bernard I believe) Sun and Jin found forgiveness and their beautiful baby girl was saved and their marriage love (which we saw as a fact... minus Jin unfortunately) and at what cost we have yet to know......but aside from Juliet 'saving' Sun and little Ji Yeon by her 'outburst/revelation to Jin) the shock and trauma could have caused Sun to miscarry....sorry folks...... but this can happen....it was not done well by Juliet and one should realistically wonder/ponder in all honesty why she chose to not warn Sun that she would tell Jin...and at least given Sun the option of 'fessing" up first...before she dropped her "klanger"

I just don't agree. Certainly, Juliet could have thought of another way to keep Sun from going to Locke's camp other than potentially destroying her marriage. Imo, if Juliet cared so much for Sun to save both her and the babies life, then she should have known the repercussions of her last ditch effort and tried to come up with something else.

I agree and so would most professionals.....harsh circumstances and all....the only other doctor on the island was Jack and to be honest I can't see him doing it this way....furthermore as a Doctor Juliet could have consulted with Jack....two doctors may have convinced Sun to stay....Sun's infidelity and confession to Jin were her's and her's alone to share

Again, Juliet wouldn't have damaged Sun and Jin's relationship, Sun would have since she was the one who cheated on Jin, not Juliet.

Yes I agree...there is no excuse for Sun's infidelity....nor I'm afraid can I justify Juliet's code of ethics....both woman chose unwisely their cause of action and should be acknowledged for this

I just want to bring something to light here....

*****They are living on a beach on an island*****

Doctor/Patient rules do not apply...nor will they ever. What's Sun gonna do...sue her? :lol:

She can tell Jin, Jack, Vincent, or the trees anything she wants at anytime. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter. I don't think her character cares if Sun likes her...she's just tired of mothers dying.

I agree she hated mother's dying and it hurt her.....but to be honest I still think good Doctors will stand by their code of ethics no matter what the situation.....to me it was unsubstantiated and over the top....I still can't wrap my brain around Juliet's method....again...why not at least warn Sun and give Sun the option to tell Jin before "whistle-blowing"....it would have only taken a few intense minutes and then as a last resort (if Juliet's warning was not heeded) and preferably if Juliet had consulted with Jack the only other doctor on the island (again just a conversation) and he agreed....then go for it...

why not at least warn Sun and give Sun the option to tell Jin before "whistle-blowing"

Hmm...I can agree with that. Perhaps Juliet could have warned her she'd go there. Pull her aside, say "I'm going to tell Jin about your affair if you don't stay" or something to that effect. Makes sense. However, I think Juliet was intentionally playing the shock factor card.

Let's play devil's advocate. If Sun knew what that was coming, could she have found a way to neutralize the accusation? For instance, she backs off, heads back to camp. But then, when Juliet is sleeping or not around, she decides to sneak off with Jin to avoid her. Now she has a couple days to either fess up to Jin or figure out how to deal with it once Juliet catches up with them. Either way, she's in a better spot to maintain a position at Camp Locke, which is contrary to Juliet's goal. With Juliet catching her offguard, her chance of succeeding in keeping Sun at Camp Jack was much higher.

We have to also keep in mind that Juliet has been hangin out with Ben and being an Other for a long time now. I think her sense of ethics has been rather blurred lately, to say the least. I don't like what she did and I think it was out of line, but I don't think it was out of character in the slightest.

We have to also keep in mind that Juliet has been hangin out with Ben and being an Other for a long time now. I think her sense of ethics has been rather blurred lately, to say the least. I don't like what she did and I think it was out of line, but I don't think it was out of character in the slightest.

And the Island has had a major effect on all the Losties,Des,Juliet,etc!
Jack is a doctor supposedly a "hero" to boot and he had every intention of shooting Locke right in the face...if there had been bullets,Locke would be a dead man!
Sure Juliet might have crossed a line but can you think of one Lostie that has not "crossed a big line"?

And the Island has had a major effect on all the Losties,Des,Juliet,etc!
Jack is a doctor supposedly a "hero" to boot and he had every intention of shooting Locke right in the face...if there had been bullets,Locke would be a dead man!
Sure Juliet might have crossed a line but can you think of one Lostie that has not "crossed a big line"?

That goes back to a major Lost theme....Duality! Good/Bad...Black/White,etc. Not all is black or white in this world but shades of gray!
Some say Juliet was right and had a good reason which was to save the lives of Sun and her unborn baby. Some say it was wrong bec/ she could have ruined a marriage. There is no right answer in some cases just shades of gray. ;)

Just something to think about....

Isn't it obvious ? Juliette is just jelous because Sun is SOOOOOO much hotter than she is. Llike 10,000 times hotter.

...Juliet will also inform Jack that Claire is his Half-sister and that Aaron is his Nephew...Boo-Hoo...

That goes back to a major Lost theme....Duality! Good/Bad...Black/White,etc. Not all is black or white in this world but shades of gray!
Some say Juliet was right and had a good reason which was to save the lives of Sun and her unborn baby. Some say it was wrong bec/ she could have ruined a marriage. There is no right answer in some cases just shades of gray. ;)

Just something to think about....

Yup, a lot of gray on this island.

First off -- I don't think Juliet sees being Sun's doctor as her ticket off of the island. Does anyone besides Jin (and Ben) know that Sun's father is a powerful businessman?

Technically, Juliet violated doctor/patient confidentiality when she told Jin about Sun's medical condition. Big HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) violation, that bit. Of course, what is HIPAA to a bunch of people stuck on a remote island?

So after that violation ... why not keep trying something until you succeed? :redface: I mean, what else could she do? Knock Sun out, tie her up and hold her captive? That's not exactly honorable either.

I didn't see it as a lame tool used by the writers. There wasn't a lot of time for Juliet to come up with a plan after all, Sun and Jin were heading out of camp at the time that the altercation occurred.

Interestingly enough, I had thought for awhile that Jin had already known about the affair, like when Papa Paik had sent him out to kill Jae. It wasn't the beating that he gave Jae that made me think that - it was the mercy he showed him. He told him to leave the country. I thought at that moment that he knew about the affair but didn't want to alienate Sun completely by killing her lover -- just get him far away from her. But Papa had a backup plan. I really don't think that Jae suicided.

I thought Sun and Jin both were holding this terrible secret from each other, which further drove a wedge between them. Ironic how having it come out in the open healed them even further. Kind of like lancing a boil - let the pus out and let the healing begin.

That scene was painful to watch.

Sun: "I'm leaving."
Juliet: "No you can't"
Sun: "Yes I am"
Juliet: "You can't"
Sun: "See ya"
Juliet: "Your wife is having an affair."

Yup, a lot of gray on this island.

First off -- I don't think Juliet sees being Sun's doctor as her ticket off of the island. Does anyone besides Jin (and Ben) know that Sun's father is a powerful businessman?

Technically, Juliet violated doctor/patient confidentiality when she told Jin about Sun's medical condition. Big HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) violation, that bit. Of course, what is HIPAA to a bunch of people stuck on a remote island?

So after that violation ... why not keep trying something until you succeed? :redface: I mean, what else could she do? Knock Sun out, tie her up and hold her captive? That's not exactly honorable either.

I didn't see it as a lame tool used by the writers. There wasn't a lot of time for Juliet to come up with a plan after all, Sun and Jin were heading out of camp at the time that the altercation occurred.

Interestingly enough, I had thought for awhile that Jin had already known about the affair, like when Papa Paik had sent him out to kill Jae. It wasn't the beating that he gave Jae that made me think that - it was the mercy he showed him. He told him to leave the country. I thought at that moment that he knew about the affair but didn't want to alienate Sun completely by killing her lover -- just get him far away from her. But Papa had a backup plan. I really don't think that Jae suicided.

I thought Sun and Jin both were holding this terrible secret from each other, which further drove a wedge between them. Ironic how having it come out in the open healed them even further. Kind of like lancing a boil - let the pus out and let the healing begin.

I think he did already suspected the affair too. I always thought he figured it out (back in that episode). But like you said, maybe he just kept it in all this time and now that it's out in the open,they can truly heal.

Juliet acted pretty immature in that scene.

Juliet acted pretty immature in that scene.

Really? I found her desperate and willing to do anything to ensure that Sun would join Locke's camp and risk trying to carry the baby to full term on the island.

Of course there's always hidden agenda. And still, she could've warned her first.

Really? I found her desperate and willing to do anything to ensure that Sun would join Locke's camp and risk trying to carry the baby to full term on the island.

Still, what Juliet said was wrong and none of her business (Despite knowing).

Juliet went about it the wrong way.. she could have gone about this another way..