At kate's trial, if I were her lawyer, I'd mke big deal about the fact that the original stories about the crash were phenominal hoax. with everyone trying to unrael that mystey they could ace les about kte's murder trial.

If Congress can hold hearings on steroids you'd think there's be some mrginal interest on someone staging a fake plane crash.

At kate's trial, if I were her lawyer, I'd mke big deal about the fact that the original stories about the crash were phenominal hoax. with everyone trying to unrael that mystey they could ace les about kte's murder trial.

If Congress can hold hearings on steroids you'd think there's be some mrginal interest on someone staging a fake plane crash.

Yeah, but we have no idea just why the O6 are being prevented from telling the truth. Whatever it is that's forcing them to maintain this lie is big enough to justify (in their minds) letting go of the truth.

And we still don't know why they said there were eight survivors? Who were the other two?? One might be Charlie because we know of his contact with Penny, any thoughts on who the other might be?

And we still don't know why they said there were eight survivors? Who were the other two?? One might be Charlie because we know of his contact with Penny, any thoughts on who the other might be?

I never cared who they were, and then it was mentioned in a podcast that the other two are not important. It is just the story the O6 are telling. Probably makes the story sound more real if not everyone that lived through the crash made it off the island.

I never cared who they were, and then it was mentioned in a podcast that the other two are not important. It is just the story the O6 are telling. Probably makes the story sound more real if not everyone that lived through the crash made it off the island.

I agree. I think it was added for the sake of realism and believability.

I'm betting Congress did hold themselves a great big hearing about the fake plane crash. But that is a separate issue. Those facts were irrelevant to Kate's trial for crimes she committed before she boarded the plane. If Kate's lawyer were going to introduce a conspiracy against Kate as a defense, he would need facts to show Kate did not kill Wayne. But we know that Kate DID kill Wayne. Kate confessed to killing Wayne, and the defense cannot introduce an argument that it KNOWS is a lie.

Jack was only there as a character witness - his job was to tell the jury the person Kate had become since the crash (it was a really poorly written trial. Jack would have been more likely to appear at the sentencing phase of the process, and only if she had been found guilty, in the hope of convincing a jury to give her a lighter sentence then death for the first degree murder of Wayne).

I shouldn't have put this in the context of the trial my question is the reveltion about thes survivors does not jive with the original discovery of the crash, an insurance co. or nosey reporter would have to be compelled to do some follow up

I'm betting Congress did hold themselves a great big hearing about the fake plane crash............

I don't think that there is anything out there that says it was fake. We don't know the story that the O6 is telling. The fact that there was some discovery of many bodies in the plane could easily be modified since the wreckage was very deep, the ROV couldn't manuever through the wreckage easily, but mostly that unattached body parts added to the confusion that all were accounted for in the wreckage.

The O6 + 2 could have escaped before the plane sunk. Since the plane was relatively in tact, that is believable.

As soon as the O6 make an appearance and say the words "survive" and "south Pacific" there would be a huge uproar about the plane in the trench. I wonder how they are going to solve that mess.

As soon as the O6 make an appearance and say the words "survive" and "south Pacific" there would be a huge uproar about the plane in the trench. I wonder how they are going to solve that mess.

I don't think they DO ever say the words "South Pacific."

The cover story is obviously a very simplified version of the real story--eight plane crash survivors manage to get themselves to an island. What other story could there be? (I'm with those who think there were eight because two actual bodies must be accounted for.) The story probably involves the plane coming in at low speed, breaking up, a few individuals being thrown far from the main action, finding some debris to climb onto, drifting to an island or coast, etc. The fictitious island has to be large enough to support life for a few months. It could even be a real coast that is very sparsely populated.

One poster awhile back suggested that the cover story could even be TRUE. We don't know what happens between the "current" (December 2004) events and the first post-island event (presumably Ji Yeon's birth in the summer of 2005).

I don't think they DO ever say the words "South Pacific."

The cover story is obviously a very simplified version of the real story--eight plane crash survivors manage to get themselves to an island. What other story could there be? (I'm with those who think there were eight because two actual bodies must be accounted for.) The story probably involves the plane coming in at low speed, breaking up, a few individuals being thrown far from the main action, finding some debris to climb onto, drifting to an island or coast, etc. The fictitious island has to be large enough to support life for a few months. It could even be a real coast that is very sparsely populated.

One poster awhile back suggested that the cover story could even be TRUE. We don't know what happens between the "current" (December 2004) events and the first post-island event (presumably Ji Yeon's birth in the summer of 2005).


From Eggtown:
JACK: Um..on September 22, 2004, Kate (sighs, smiling) --Mrs. Austen and I were both passengers on Oceanic Flight 815, which crash-landed on an island in the South Pacific.


So, they claim to have crashed in the SOuth Pacific and the fake plane is in the Trench.

From Eggtown:
JACK: Um..on September 22, 2004, Kate (sighs, smiling) --Mrs. Austen and I were both passengers on Oceanic Flight 815, which crash-landed on an island in the South Pacific.


So, they claim to have crashed in the SOuth Pacific and the fake plane is in the Trench.

OK, I stand corrected. Thanks for the research.

Not the worst part of the trial, anyway.

Could I fanwank that to Jack and most other folks, the very large swath of the planet covered by a huge amount of water is all sort of "South Pacific" and nobody would really notice? The same way people refer to Mexico as "South America" . . .

Not the worst part of the trial, anyway.

I think that statement was the only realistic part of the entire thing.


Could I fanwank that to Jack and most other folks, the very large swath of the planet covered by a huge amount of water is all sort of "South Pacific" and nobody would really notice? The same way people refer to Mexico as "South America" . . .

Yeah, it's a huge area, but I think that most people would think of the South Pacific as being south of the Equator between Australia and South America. The problem is that Bali would never be included in that area.

I know the +2 in the o6+2 is unimportant, but I always thought Claire was one of the others, since Aaron is with Kate. I never thought about Charlie. But since Charlie is probably the other, because he spoke with Penny. I believe the other has to be Desmond now. Widmore probably knows Desmond is the island. Also Claire might be killed because, in the preview for next episode, Hurley says something to the effect "It coming from Claire's house" or "It happening by Clarie's house". That might be how Kate gets Aaron.

I got the impression that the other 2 of the "8" will never be addressed because they are not important.

If they did address it- I figured the other "2" would be Sun and Claire. But I really think that it won't even be discussed. I think Desmond and Ben will be "freebies" if Ben leaves the island at this time and doesn't hook up with Sayid later in the future after leaving the island at some different point in time. Although I am doubting a happily ever after for Des and Penny - but one can hope.

As far as reconciling the plane crash- maybe they 'did' perhaps they figure the 06 don't realize it wasn't the South Pacific- the plane was found near Bali so maybe they just assume that the 06 were actually found there-regardless of what they say/think. I am assuming no one sees this island and that they are brought into some major port before anyone knows who they are- Michael made it back to New York with no one knowing who he was.

If they did address it- I figured the other "2" would be Sun and Claire.

I don't think they'll ever address it, but if they did I doubt one would be Claire, and Sun is part of the O6 so I don't know what you're talking about there. I think Claire wouldn't be included because there is no reason to her. It seems to me they would have to tell the world that Aaron is Kate's baby in order for her to retain custody of him. Therefore there would be no reason to name Claire.

The public would still believe the wreckage is real. But wouldn't they wonder why the newscasts reported that the bodies of all passengers and crew members were found and yet there were the 8 survivors whose bodies were supposedly in the plane?

I don't think they'll ever address it, but if they did I doubt one would be Claire, and Sun is part of the O6 so I don't know what you're talking about there. I think Claire wouldn't be included because there is no reason to her. It seems to me they would have to tell the world that Aaron is Kate's baby in order for her to retain custody of him. Therefore there would be no reason to name Claire.

Oops- typo I meant Jin, but I also don't really think that it will ever be discussed and I think Claire will be alive.

At kate's trial, if I were her lawyer, I'd mke big deal about the fact that the original stories about the crash were phenominal hoax.
Why would she call att'n to her part in a hoax, when her supposed crimes were part of it?

Why would she call att'n to her part in a hoax, when her supposed crimes were part of it?

Not the Oceanic 6 hoax, the faked wreckage. Kate had nothing to do with that.

The public would still believe the wreckage is real. But wouldn't they wonder why the newscasts reported that the bodies of all passengers and crew members were found and yet there were the 8 survivors whose bodies were supposedly in the plane?

Whatever agency said 'all the bodies were found' will probably issue a correction. I think it would be believable that whatever system was used to look for the bodies mistook a body broken into two pieces as two people. It was a plane crash after all, and the carnage would be horrific, not to mention decomposition of the corpses. The ROV could not get inside the plane, and it was at great depth so no scuba divers could go there.

In summary, the O6 and the 'faked' (if it is fake, and you know what I mean) plane wreckage would not appear to be conflicting stories to the general public.

Not the Oceanic 6 hoax, the faked wreckage. Kate had nothing to do with that.
So you think she was placed unaware on the island with the fake wreckage?

So you think she was placed unaware on the island with the fake wreckage?

Why would she call att'n to her part in a hoax, when her supposed crimes were part of it?

The hoax I am talking about is the staged wreckage. That is the topic of this thread. Kate had nothing to do with that and it wouldn't be odd for her attorney to call attention to that. The "hoax" in relation to the O6 is that the story is fake, but bringing up the wreckage wouldn't expose their lie.

The hoax I am talking about is the staged wreckage. That is the topic of this thread. Kate had nothing to do with that and it wouldn't be odd for her attorney to call attention to that. The "hoax" in relation to the O6 is that the story is fake, but bringing up the wreckage wouldn't expose their lie.
I think I see now where the confusion is coming from. When you write "the" in "the staged wreckage", are you referring to only one set of wreckage in one place? Implying that one set of wreckage represents an actual aerial accident, not a staged event? If so, that's the problem; I'm treating all the "wrecks" as staged as part of a single hoax in which Kate participated voluntarily.

That still leaves the problem of reconciling the 2 ostensible events, but at least it gives a greater degree of control to the hoaxers. For one thing, how do we know that anyone who wasn't part of the hoax became aware of the contradictory stories or evidence? If they could make sure only the persons we saw saw the video of the submarine salvage operation or the newspaper stories, then the rest of the world wouldn't know anything but the Oceanic 6 story.

However, I think the story is going to be that the Freighties and the Losties came from different universes, in one of which one thing happened and in the other the other thing. But that story is still going to be part of the hoax.

Robert

Why would she call att'n to her part in a hoax, when her supposed crimes were part of it?


This is called Derailing a Thread With Your Own Theories. It might not have played out this way this time, but I've seen it elsewhere. It's amazing they don't call you on it more often. Watch me get points for this.

This is called Derailing a Thread With Your Own Theories. It might not have played out this way this time, but I've seen it elsewhere. It's amazing they don't call you on it more often. Watch me get points for this.
Get points? There's scoring in our discussions? Like it's a formal debate?

All I was doing was trying to understand and criticize what the other poster was writing. It seemed to mean one thing, but later it seemed to have meant something else.

But as far as "my own theories", I always bring my own understanding of Lost to these discussions. How could it be any other way?

Robert

Get points? There's scoring in our discussions? Like it's a formal debate?

All I was doing was trying to understand and criticize what the other poster was writing. It seemed to mean one thing, but later it seemed to have meant something else.

But as far as "my own theories", I always bring my own understanding of Lost to these discussions. How could it be any other way?

Robert
Infraction points look under my screen name, I got those points for taking a guess, that due to wording, I got penalized for posting a spoiler when it was a logical conclusion, and not a spoiler, at least not to me I've sinced removed myself from the spoiler section so that any future guesses that turn out to be right won't be seen as spoilers. This'll probably be edited because I disagree with the infraction and have voiced my opinion about it.

In my ranting I forgot to post on the topic, my apologies.

Maybr they did try to reconcile the fake wreckage with the survivors but someone with alot of power and money stepped in, for example Widmore, since he (apparently) faked the crash he would be the one to try and stop the inquiry into the 324 non Oceanic passengers and the fake Oceanic air plane

I think I see now where the confusion is coming from. When you write "the" in "the staged wreckage", are you referring to only one set of wreckage in one place? Implying that one set of wreckage represents an actual aerial accident, not a staged event? If so, that's the problem; I'm treating all the "wrecks" as staged as part of a single hoax in which Kate participated voluntarily.

I'm referring to the wreckage in the Sunda Trench. I have to believe that is what the original poster is referring to. The rest of the world wouldn't know that there is a second set of wreckage strewn about the actual island. The rest of what you say doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying they didn't crash at all? That's what it seems like to me, but we've seen the crash from the ground and in the plane. I see no way that Kate voluntarily participated in an airplane crash.

However, I think the story is going to be that the Freighties and the Losties came from different universes, in one of which one thing happened and in the other the other thing. But that story is still going to be part of the hoax.

I really do not see this happening. There is no way that they would use this story since it is so unbelievable. This would just cause confusion and prompt further investigation, which is an undesirable situation for either Widmore or Linus.

Infraction points look under my screen name, I got those points for taking a guess, that due to wording, I got penalized for posting a spoiler when it was a logical conclusion, and not a spoiler, at least not to me I've sinced removed myself from the spoiler section so that any future guesses that turn out to be right won't be seen as spoilers. This'll probably be edited because I disagree with the infraction and have voiced my opinion about it.

This really isn't the place for you to be posting about this but just to clarify one little thing for you... no one can see your points except you and the mods. So telling someone to look under your screen name is kind of pointless.

I got the impression that the other 2 of the "8" will never be addressed because they are not important.

If they did address it- I figured the other "2" would be Sun and Claire. But I really think that it won't even be discussed. I think Desmond and Ben will be "freebies" if Ben leaves the island at this time and doesn't hook up with Sayid later in the future after leaving the island at some different point in time. Although I am doubting a happily ever after for Des and Penny - but one can hope.

As far as reconciling the plane crash- maybe they 'did' perhaps they figure the 06 don't realize it wasn't the South Pacific- the plane was found near Bali so maybe they just assume that the 06 were actually found there-regardless of what they say/think. I am assuming no one sees this island and that they are brought into some major port before anyone knows who they are- Michael made it back to New York with no one knowing who he was.

Since Desmond was not on 815 he would not be one of the survivors nor victims of Oceanic, neither can Ben, Julliet nor Danielle or anyone else on the island for a different reason before the airplane crash. So that does not preclude Penny and Des having a happily ever after, so that is my hope.

Are you saying they didn't crash at all?
Yes, and that they just danced around pre-placed "wreckage" while another plane with nobody aboard was demolished in mid-air.

I really do not see this happening. There is no way that they would use this story since it is so unbelievable. This would just cause confusion and prompt further investigation, which is an undesirable situation for either Widmore or Linus.
Regardless of whose hoax it was or how much the hoax included (i.e. just "crash scene" or more than one as I think), prompting investigation would be a problem. But the stories would have to be reconciled somehow as well -- if both stories got out to the gen'l public. If, however, only one story got out to the public (and the video, newspapers, and radio report of the Sunda Trench story were presented only to the few people we saw -- the Fantastic 4 -- receiving it, in the guise of "broadcasts" to the world at large) then no such reconciliation would be necessary.

Robert

Yes, and that they just danced around pre-placed "wreckage" while another plane with nobody aboard was demolished in mid-air.

Regardless of whose hoax it was or how much the hoax included (i.e. just "crash scene" or more than one as I think), prompting investigation would be a problem. But the stories would have to be reconciled somehow as well -- if both stories got out to the gen'l public. If, however, only one story got out to the public (and the video, newspapers, and radio report of the Sunda Trench story were presented only to the few people we saw -- the Fantastic 4 -- receiving it, in the guise of "broadcasts" to the world at large) then no such reconciliation would be necessary.

Robert


Ok, I understand what you're saying now. That is an interesting theory, but there is one thing that still doesn't sit right with me about it. We as viewers were shown the crash from inside and outside perspectives. This wasn't what the outside world was shown, this was us seeing the events that happened. We aren't getting fed information like you think the Freightastic 4 did. If we were, it would line up with the story of the O6, and it doesn't. That fact that we know their story is a lie means that we know more than the rest of their world.

I don't think they DO ever say the words "South Pacific."

The cover story is obviously a very simplified version of the real story--eight plane crash survivors manage to get themselves to an island. What other story could there be? (I'm with those who think there were eight because two actual bodies must be accounted for.)

This is what I've been assuming (aside from the part about the two bodies). It's simple, and any good liar knows it's best to keep a lie as simple as possible.

- mnw

(The eight vs six thing was put in because it's easier to fit an extra character into a parody of the Gilligan's Island song than it is to work with being one short.)

(The eight vs six thing was put in because it's easier to fit an extra character into a parody of the Gilligan's Island song than it is to work with being one short.)
plus eight is one of the numbers.