Didn't like the ep? Tell us why. :biggrin:






This thread is for those that did NOT like the episode. If you liked the ep please visit the "Loved it!!!" thread. If you want to debate the episode (likes and dislikes), then please take your comments to the "Rate The Episode" thread or The "Discuss The Episode" thread. Any off topic posts will be deleted and possibly warned or given infraction points.

Well I'm not really sure what to say about that. It was one confusing question after another. Every scene contained something bizarre and I didn't understand an ounce of it. Abbadon telling Locke to go on his Walkabout? Alpert being there when Locke was a baby and again testing him as a kid for something or other? Christian and Claire in the cabin? Moving the island? Locke chosen for who knows what? Doc Ray getting killed after he died? Horace speaking from the beyond? It took them an hour to reach the cabin and an hour for them to tell us Locke was special and chosen well I thought we knew that.

A couple things pissed me off in particular: Desmond chooses to stay on the freighter while Sayid goes back to rescue the rest. He says he stays because he is never going back to that island now that he knows Penny is coming for him. Yay Desmond, to hell with everyone else. Charlie died so you could get your girlfriend back. Desmond's won the award for most selfish character. I haven't seen an ounce of that guilt HIC was talking about.

Other thing -- Hurley sharing a candy bar with Ben. Hurley, if you only know that man you're hanging with ordered your best friend's death. But of course you wouldn't know that would you, because Alex is dead and she's the only one that might have told someone.

Claire -- seems dead to me. She was all happy in the cabin as ghostlike as Christian. Didn't even care about her child. Well that's Claire for you. Weird.

I feel like they were being purposely obtuse and it was a little over the top. Every scene was a confusing riddle. Unsatisfying because it is still nothing but doom on the horizon, no reasons for hope, the characters are being moved around like pawns on a chessboard, and still far too few answers. An exercise in frustration. More than ever I feel like they are just toying with us at this point to see how much we can take.

I didn't really like it that much either. Lost has really taken a weird turn. I thought the writers promised us in the beginning that everything will be able to be explained threw real things (science). Um, the show seems WAY to supernatural. The acting in the flashbacks was cringe-worthy and one of the worst I've seen on the show. I don't know...it just didn't really reel like Lost to me.

For how messed up, fast, and poorly acted this episode was.

I'm sorry...I tried to like it...it was just too supernatural for me. I thought we were promised by the writers that this wasn't going to happen with the show?

Anyone feel the same?

So my thread got closed...whatevs.

Here are my comments...

Is it just me, or did anyone else think "what?!?"...

This epi was so disjointed...it was bizarre...

I regret encouraging 2 people to watch it...they surely will never watch LOST again.

UGH.:redface:

I hated it...did not even pick up the recording of it that a friend made for me...last week I was at their door 10 minutes after the epi ended to get the recording, and I rewatched it that same night.

Since I read spoilers, I looked forward to seeing Abaddon and Richard...and was glad to see them, but I think the writers failed in a major way. OMG did I mention how much this epi sucked? ;)

Darn...I think I am falling out of love with LOST.
100%
Oh ;) and Elizabeth Sarnoff needs to be fired. I will give Kyle Pennington another chance, though.

I think packjunkie said it all for me.

We are seriously losing interest in the show. Not the storyline - which we wish PAWs (producers and writers) would get back to. But the way the story is being told. I'm gonna have to think about this for a while.

We were taken aback by Claire in the cabin acting like nothing was going on. And to lose her grip on Aaron. That raised a big question.

Christian just shows up and what? We're suppose to believe that he was all in Jack's head when in fact he has been alive all this time? Come on!

I missed Sawyer in the episode.

No Vincent. At all. That's sad.

Desmond waiting for Penny. Oh yeah, she's gonna meet him in the middle of the ocean and it's gonna be all safe for her.

You know, the previews are getting a little out of wack. They are proving to be nothing when put within their context. Maybe they are suppose to be that way, but I know people are already making up theories about previews. The previews are so meaningless now.

We are really disappointed in the storytelling. I am sure that Damon and the writers are having a great time amusing themselves and thinking that it is all in good fun taking us through these twists and turns and thinking that it is entertainment. I think it falls outside the boundaries of good and convincing storytelling as to make the story sad to watch.

Part of that comes from watching them in interviews gleefully making cryptic comments and then enjoying the process. That gets old really fast. I know of no other producers that have ever done that and didn't lose fans.

We only watched tonight because our curiosity was peaked and just to see what was going to happen. Not for the acting. Not for the dialog. Not to see any geometric shipper whatever. Just to see what was going to happen and if by chance, to see if the storytelling was going to improve.

It didn't.

You know how the interconectedness between the characters was what the show was really about and it would have been really lame to have people manipulated into boarding the plane like in those stupid fanboy theories? Um... yeah.

There was some truly awful dialogue there. I realize they do need a lot of exposition because half the fandom barely remembers Horace, let alone the audience at large, but most of Locke explaining stuff to Hurley and Ben looking nonplussed was terrible.

Locke episodes are my pillars in this show, dudes, I'm not supposed to feel this way about them.

LOST is veering too far into the supernatural for my tastes. Is Claire alive? Is she dead? I think the average viewer who doesn't come to the Boards to try and figure this thing out is going to find this episode weird and unsettling, and violent.

That was without a doubt, the worst Locke flashback in the history of the show.

Hurley doesn't seem to have a filter on who to be nice to does he? Come on Hurley, that was Ben you were buddying up to? Ben who you just found out killed a whole island full of innocent people.

I agree with everything said here. I like Lost because of the great characters and storytelling. A little bit of mystery and supernatural stuff is great - but this is waaaaaay too much. Casual viewers (the ones not on this board) will be turned off and the show will suffer,

I mean - moving the island, time travel, ghosts, men who can't age...ENOUGH!

Why don't they just throw in a Stormtrooper, Klingon and Hobbit? Seems like they've thrown every other cheesy sci-fi thing in the show.

Well I'm not really sure what to say about that. It was one confusing question after another. Every scene contained something bizarre and I didn't understand an ounce of it. Abbadon telling Locke to go on his Walkabout? Alpert being there when Locke was a baby and again testing him as a kid for something or other? Christian and Claire in the cabin? Moving the island? Locke chosen for who knows what? Doc Ray getting killed after he died? Horace speaking from the beyond? It took them an hour to reach the cabin and an hour for them to tell us Locke was special and chosen well I thought we knew that.


I'm with you PJ...I am desperately trying to love this episode, being a mythology-hound. I did like the idea of three different Lockes, but the scenes themselves felt a little contrived.

The biggest beef I have with the episode is that it felt so darn disconnected. Every scene had something interesting in it, but all those little tidbits were never tied together. I kinda felt like Ben and Hurley, just sitting around waiting for it all to make sense.

Desmond chooses to stay on the freighter while Sayid goes back to rescue the rest. He says he stays because he is never going back to that island now that he knows Penny is coming for him. Yay Desmond, to hell with everyone else. Charlie died so you could get your girlfriend back. Desmond's won the award for most selfish character.

Overall, I liked the episode except for the above. Desmond, man, that was so lame of you!

I think this is one of those episodes that sets up the coming ones, I agree it was sort of disjointed and did not flow. The cabin scene did not live up to the intense build-up throughout the episode.

I posted on a another board about how I didn't like this episode and people jumped down my throat. I simply said it is getting too science fictiony for my taste.

There has always been a sci-fi element to the show, but it was always subtle. Now it seems like it is going to be the dominant theme. I really hope that isn't the case. I watch the show for the AMAZING characters and writing. Not the sci-fi stuff.

I don't mind the sci-fi stuff, but the characters don't even care about each other anymore, either that or they've become so despicable that I have no emotional connection. And I can't speculate on any of what we saw in this episode because it was all so out of left field that we have no basis on which to even make a guess. Who knows why any of this stuff is happening. I haven't a clue and I can't even give it a shot when we don't even know who is alive and who is dead. And if death doesn't mean anything because they are all walking around everywhere, then why should I care if they torch the island?

Torch it.

This is quite interesting (to me)...I love the supernatural, love the sci-fi...am hoping for aliens on LOST...

But this epi sucked, pure and simple.

Yet strangely...I am going to rewatch it and give it another chance. If only for Keamy's arm, and to try to figure out what the heck is going on with Claire.
100%
Maybe I am trying too hard to remain in love with LOST?

I just prefer to have an hour going deep with one or two characters butI know that Lost has to start moving along more quickly now. The only thing is, this was a Locke episode but I almost felt like there wasn't quite enough Locke... or I didn't learn anything new about him? I mean obviously we DID learn more about him and his past! So I dunno why I feel that way. I am gonna re-watch it too.

I... liked... that Locke was supposed to be a Man Of Science initially? I think there was something good in that as well as in Richard's disappointment... for some reason it reminded me of Lord Of The Flies and the kid with the knife.

I didn't like, in fact downright HATED that instead oh having Locke find the strenght within himself to go on his walkabout and stop being a sadsack in a wheelchair, it was once again the Island. Fuck, now I'm gonna have to sit through Abaddon's walkabout too. Is there anything these characters are allowed to think, feel, achieve on their own without Big Brother in the South Pacific (For Now...)?

I liked that Sayid is SO tiny (I burst out laughing when Keamy got in his face) but so fierce.

I hate all the deaths. Remember last season when they started hyping Naomi as a "mysterious girl in communion with the Island?" When we weren't even allowed to TYPE HER NAME anywhere on the internet cause Damon and Carlton said so? Hers was the first ridiculous death of the season... not the death in itself, because that set up great things such as the distrust in Locke, etc. but her ridiculous resurrection only to croak again. Now you have some excellent new characters played by people who can actually act and what you do is hole them up in their tents until you have time for their centric episode next season while in the meantime bringing a score of OTHER NEW PEOPLE that you can kill off after five minutes of screentime. Think Regina, Gault, the freighter in general. Does anybody care what the freighter sickness is anymore? I don't.

I just prefer to have an hour going deep with one or two characters butI know that Lost has to start moving along more quickly now.

Are we moving more quickly? I hadn't noticed. When season three ended, there was a freighter with people coming to rescue them. Now we're 11 episodes into season 4 -- and they're still on the beach. Yet we did have three shipper episodes and lots of scenes of horseshoes and board games. The whole series could have been wrapped up in half the amount of episodes they had planned.

The only thing is, this was a Locke episode but I almost felt like there wasn't quite enough Locke... or I didn't learn anything new about him? I mean obviously we DID learn more about him and his past! So I dunno why I feel that way. I am gonna re-watch it too.

It's because the only new bits of information you received was deliberately cryptic. It's a shell game. The only parts we understood were the bits we already knew. Emily is Locke's mom. He was always a loser but was told he was special. He believes he was chosen for something greater. He was raised in a foster home. He fell out of a window and became paralyzed. He went on a Walkabout to find himself. We knew all that before the episode aired. The rest was confusing nonsense, just more questions. The show is like a russian matroyshka doll. Every time it promises something you open it up and there's just another doll inside. The answers are always around the next corner.


I didn't like, in fact downright HATED that instead oh having Locke find the strenght within himself to go on his walkabout and stop being a sadsack in a wheelchair, it was once again the Island. cluck, now I'm gonna have to sit through Abaddon's walkabout too. Is there anything these characters are allowed to think, feel, achieve on their own without Big Brother in the South Pacific (For Now...)?



And that's the whole problem right there and why I was furious when Michael wasn't able to kill himself, and furious again when we saw Keamy couldn't kill him with a loaded gun. Fate rules on this show. The island is in control of everything, so nothing these people do really matters. They are playing pieces nothing more.

Are we moving more quickly? I hadn't noticed. When season three ended, there was a freighter with people coming to rescue them. Now we're 11 episodes into season 4 -- and they're still on the beach. Yet we did have three shipper episodes and lots of scenes of horseshoes and board games. The whole series could have been wrapped up in half the amount of episodes they had planned.



It's because the only new bits of information you received was deliberately cryptic. It's a shell game. The only parts we understood were the bits we already knew. Emily is Locke's mom. He was always a loser but was told he was special. He believes he was chosen for something greater. He was raised in a foster home. He fell out of a window and became paralyzed. He went on a Walkabout to find himself. We knew all that before the episode aired. The rest was confusing nonsense, just more questions. The show is like a russian matroyshka doll. Every time it promises something you open it up and there's just another doll inside. The answers are always around the next corner.



And that's the whole problem right there and why I was furious when Michael wasn't able to kill himself, and furious again when we saw Keamy couldn't kill him with a loaded gun. Fate rules on this show. The island is in control of everything, so nothing these people do really matters. They are playing pieces nothing more.


I agree with everything you said PJ. Though I gave the episode an 8, I'm getting bored with promises of answers. This fate game, "who's supposed to do what" has got very old. The Island is able to stop guns but it can't stop helicopters, communication devices. It lets O6 leave the Island which took one season and it will take one season to get them back to the Island. I would say the Island is not that smart.

Everything happening on this show because of the direction the writers want to take the show/characters (which changes from season to season according to internet fan reaction), not because it is logical. What I see is not giving any meaning to what I saw in the previous seasons. If only the writers could decide who is to raise Aaron. Poor Claire (I suppose she's dead). It seems that she has given birth to Aaron just to serve Kate's (the most annoying character in the show) story.

I gotta' question:

If the doc's body washed up a day before he was killed why didn't the helicopter arrive a day before it took off?

I guarantee no one will answer that. This is why I hate time travel stories. They have too many holes.

Too confusing for my taste. Too "supernatural" aswell. :undecide:

I think it has something to do with the bearing. The helicopter flies at the correct beaing but the body didn't float the right way.. or.. something?

One thing I did not like about this episode was all the characters on the freighter. A few too many.

One thing I did not like about this episode was all the characters on the freighter. A few too many.

Don't worry about that, I'm sure they'll all be dead by season's end. Just a guess, based on the Others bloodbath that was last season's ender. :undecide:

So they show us Locke going into the Cabin and meeting Christian and Claire.
But they don't tell us wtf that is all about; instead they have Christian evade the issue, "We don't have time for that. Why don't you ask the question that really matters?"
Then they don't show us what the answer was.

Cobblers.

This show is all 'Don't Touch That Dial', and that's all it is.

Never mind Flash-Forward. When LOST is finished and people can rewatch it all on DVD, about 75% of it can be Fast-Forwarded.

Smoke monsters killing people, time travel, the island not lettting someone in New York die, and now Jack's dead father telling Locke that he has to move the island? The recent shift into science fiction continues. Why didn't they just tell us from the start that LOST is a science fiction series, with time travel, walking talking dead people, people having dreams that show them where to find a map, etc. In the words of one of Arzt's former wives, "This isn't what I signed up for." I'll keep watching for now because of the overall quality of the series, and to see what becomes of some of the characters. But I guess I might as well forget about being shown the scientific explanation for some of the bizarre stuff that the flight 815 survivors have been exposed to.
As for Desmond staying on the freighter: What made him think Penny would be more likely to find him there as opposed to on the island? That's what didn't make sense about his decision to me.

It seems to me as if this whole season was just filler. So they created this crap-filled "who are the oceanic 6?" mystery and how do they get off the island... but then came the writers strike. So now we have a filler storyline being rushed through because of less time to film and edit, and fewer episodes to contain the story. I'm hoping they fix this next season. I have the feeling that season 4 will be considered the worst of all a seasons.

Either that, or this show is going down hill fast. I enjoyed 2 episodes this season.

These past 2 were the worst. And I love Locke episodes.

*ThisIslandEarth tries to take a sledgehammer to his tv set but the island won't let him*

I am VERYsurprised that this thread is so short. Maybe it's because no one cares anymore.

I used to be shocked at the number of replies in the "Didn't Love It" threads...for episodes that I loved. My gosh...I can't be the only LOST junkie who hated this epi? ;)
100%

*ThisIslandEarth tries to take a sledgehammer to his tv set but the island won't let him*
I just saw this...so, so funny. Thank you. :biggrin:

I like it when people talk to each other about how they feel and, like... I dunno... things other than just the plot. Last night when Ben, Hurley, and Locke were talking to each other it felt so much like they were talking to the audience trying to help us understand what was going on. "We're doing this because..." etc.

*ThisIslandEarth tries to take a sledgehammer to his tv set but the island won't let him*

That's it, the only explanation that fits. The island is forcing me to watch this show. :eek2:

It wasn't nessisarily the supernatural stuff that bothered me. If its done right it can be really good like the consant was. Here's the problem:

Did we gain any new insight to Lockes character? No
Did we feel any human connection to any of the characters? No.
Did it tell us anything that could possibly be important later on? No.
Were we left feeling slightly satisfied at the end? No.
Was it at least slightly fun or enjoyable to watch? No.


There was absolutly no point to this episode! All their doing is spinning us in pointless circles to kill time.

It wasn't nessisarily the supernatural stuff that bothered me. If its done right it can be really good like the consant was. Here's the problem:

Did we gain any new insight to Lockes character? No
Did we feel any human connection to any of the characters? No.
Did it tell us anything that could possibly be important later on? No.
Were we left feeling slightly satisfied at the end? No.
Was it at least slightly fun or enjoyable to watch? No.


There was absolutly no point to this episode! All their doing is spinning us in pointless circles to kill time.

... in pointless circles to kill time... while they show us what? That Kate and Jack kinda end up together. That Hurley is back in the nut house. That Sun had her baby and that maybe Jin is alive back on the Island. That Sawyer is on the Island. Duh. And the list goes on. So much time was wasted drawing things out over the season and so much more could have been done with the time given.

Alright, folks, stand back because I'm gonna say it... cover your ears if you don't want to hear it and send the kids out of the room...

Here it is... This season was a waste of time if only to show us two things: who the o6 were and how they got off the Island.

It used to be about the characters. It used to be about the storyline. It used to be about how they interact with each other. It used to be about getting off the Island.

Gee, that felt good.

Well, against my better judgment I watched it again. It was STILL disjointed and bizarre in a bad way.

Claire said "I'm fine...I'm with him"...chilling in the dark in Jacob's cabin with Christian, who apparently told Locke that he needs to move The Island. And Aaron is where he's supposed to be...and that's not here.

What?!?!?

Tabby, the thing about fandom is that it's not always easy to admit you're not cool and with it. I'm not and never will be so that gives me the freedom to say this was a hodgepodge of "mythology" plots (mythology is cool... you cannot dislike mythology episodes or else you're uncool and not a real fan) held together by a very thin thread. Sure it fails epically in the storytelling department but omg, isn't it mindblowing?

I was just reading a spoiler-y interview (hence no link) with Damon and Carlton and this comment struck me as particularly ironic:

We don't want the audience to think that season five is just a big tap dance. It's not The Two Towers in The Lord of the Rings saga where it's just a big battle for three hours until you get to the volcano

Well thank goodness because I don't think I could take two seasons like that in a row. (The only part of this season I ever want to rewatch beyond the first two episodes are the flashforwards... the rest went out the window with teleportation and lights being flashed in a rat's eyes to zap its consciousness...)

I've watched years and years of Star Trek and Stargate and what have you (and I was late for BSG, but oh LOST how you break my heart when I watch a good episode of that) so it's not like I'm above it. But instead of running side by side with a story rooted in its characters from the very beginning, the sci fi has ballooned out and swallowed everything else this season and it's just making me hate the Island parts of the show to the extent I wish Keamy would do his damn job already.

Claudia...maybe I misunderstand your comments...

But I feel very cool and with it. :)

Thus, I think that I am in a position to say with authority that this epi sucked. (lol)

I love the mythology episodes...and I do not count this one amongst them.

I was just reading a spoiler-y interview (hence no link) with Damon and Carlton and this comment struck me as particularly ironic:

We don't want the audience to think that season five is just a big tap dance. It's not The Two Towers in The Lord of the Rings saga where it's just a big battle for three hours until you get to the volcano

... But instead of running side by side with a story rooted in its characters from the very beginning, the sci fi has ballooned out and swallowed everything else this season and it's just making me hate the Island parts of the show to the extent I wish Keamy would do his damn job already.

1. The problem with their comments is that that is what happened this season. This season has been a tap dance just to tell us who the o6 are and how they get off the Island. Lit' late guys.

2. Star Trek, (especially TOS) and Stargate SG-1 has great characters who have a lot of depth and texture. You could write endless stories about them and they are still being written.

With our Lost, the sci-fi this season, especially in this episode, has overshadowed the storyline and the characters to the point that a person could say that it was a different series with a different storyline.

P. S. At least the sci-fi elements didn't effect everyone. Go Vincent! The only one not affected by any sci-fi shenanigans. Good Boy!

This fate game, "who's supposed to do what" has got very old. The Island is able to stop guns but it can't stop helicopters, communication devices. It lets O6 leave the Island which took one season and it will take one season to get them back to the Island. I would say the Island is not that smart.

Everything happening on this show because of the direction the writers want to take the show/characters (which changes from season to season according to internet fan reaction), not because it is logical. What I see is not giving any meaning to what I saw in the previous seasons.

This is the biggest problem with the show. The characters are fates puppets and fate itself is the writer's excuse for extremely contrived and often nonsensical storytelling. It makes the compelling human survival story of S1 seem completely meaningless. Those characters were never in control of their own choices or redemptions. Free will was an illusion. How lame.

Didn't hate it, just found it disjointed and cliff-notey... probaby at least in part attributable to the strike... they usally give us smaller bits of the mythology/sci-fi stuff at a time buffered with characterization but they didn't have that luxury this epi apparently. In a way I feel for them they get reamed for too little and too much of what we in fandom demand... we all want to change the recipe without knowing what it is supposed to be ultimately.

I didn't like the overall feel of the episode it was uninvolving to me, hence my post in this thread. However there were fun moments watching, loved Richard's appearances and I liked Abaddon too. My husband thought the whole test thing with Richard/Locke was self-evident... that all the items were from his life but would he choose things from his past or his future.... that one blew by me during the show, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense.

squid

After a few more days to mull over the episode, I find I'm falling into the camp of I didn't like it so much. The episodes are becoming more about the mythology and less about the characters. I really can't see how this episode was even close to a 10. Locke, Ben and Hurley spent the first 30 minutes walking through the jungle, and the FB were all about the same thing: Locke being special. The second half of the hour was the freighters gearing up to go back to the island, which we know they've wanted to do since the beginning of the season.

How exactly was this a great episode? Seriously. The only interesting points for me were Christian and Claire in the cabin, and the "moving the island" statement from Locke. Everything else was relative filler.

My biggest issue with season four so far is that we have been moving away from the core characters of Lost and more towards the outsiders and Ben/Widmore, and the scifi element. Now, I'm no sci-fi snob. I watch lots of sci fi shows (SG-1, BSG, 4400, Farscape, etc). I love that stuff, but what made Lost so special was the relationships and how those relationships develop WHILE they fight and survive on the island. I'm sticking Lost out until the very end, but it's sad when any character stories are trashed as filler, and the mythology stuff is hailed as wonderful when hardly any Lost characters are front and center.

I'm looking forward to the season finale, but I'm also a bit guarded. I really hope that next year Damon and Carlton return more to the characters I love: Jack, Locke, Sayid, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Claire, Rose, Bernard, Jin and Sun. Everyone else should play important but secondary parts in the story. I get that Ben is important, but he's not more important than the main Lost cast.

After a few more days to mull over the episode, I find I'm falling into the camp of I didn't like it so much. The episodes are becoming more about the mythology and less about the characters. I really can't see how this episode was even close to a 10. Locke, Ben and Hurley spent the first 30 minutes walking through the jungle, and the FB were all about the same thing: Locke being special. The second half of the hour was the freighters gearing up to go back to the island, which we know they've wanted to do since the beginning of the season.

How exactly was this a great episode? Seriously. The only interesting points for me were Christian and Claire in the cabin, and the "moving the island" statement from Locke. Everything else was relative filler.

My biggest issue with season four so far is that we have been moving away from the core characters of Lost and more towards the outsiders and Ben/Widmore, and the scifi element. Now, I'm no sci-fi snob. I watch lots of sci fi shows (SG-1, BSG, 4400, Farscape, etc). I love that stuff, but what made Lost so special was the relationships and how those relationships develop WHILE they fight and survive on the island. I'm sticking Lost out until the very end, but it's sad when any character stories are trashed as filler, and the mythology stuff is hailed as wonderful when hardly any Lost characters are front and center.

I'm looking forward to the season finale, but I'm also a bit guarded. I really hope that next year Damon and Carlton return more to the characters I love: Jack, Locke, Sayid, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Claire, Rose, Bernard, Jin and Sun. Everyone else should play important but secondary parts in the story. I get that Ben is important, but he's not more important than the main Lost cast.


My thoughts exactly! All this "time travel" and "wormhole" stuff is giving me a huge headache, and I so hope they don't go that route! But they do have to explain some of the "unexplainable" things we've been seeing, such as DEAD PEOPLE (I see dead people). And Locke's conversation with someone who's been dead for 12 years, etc. I'm not against sci-fi either, although it's not my favorite, which is exactly why LOST was so appealing to me to begin with.

I thought in the beginning of this season that Lost was headed back to how it was in Season 1 which was by far, the best season yet, but then all this "Other", "freighties", "Widmore", etc. stuff took center stage and I'm dissppointed in that. So I have to agree with your post and pray they get back to what made Lost such a great show to begin with, and that is the main characters.

Doc

I love lost. I'm its biggest fan, I get well into all the off screen stuff spoilers, theories, podcasts etc.

I'm also from England and have to download it the morning after its been on. I've been so calm up to now but this is getting stupid. What is going on? Its like the makers of this program are taking the pi$$! I've now got to accept that the island needs to be moved. I doubt that there is an actual sensible solution at the end of all this, just some unsolved mystery. No wonder the figures are dropping, answer some questions and bring an element of reality back.

Please stop making the show rubbish just cos you can't finish it properly. Give just some media students a chance to finish it for you.

My one last complaint about this episode was that so much came out of nowhere. For example:

Christian in the cabin and why he was in the cabin
Claire acting calm
The explanation of where Aaron was
Ben giving up his mantel so quickly
Jack being mobile so quickly after his surgery
Desmond staying on the boat and abandoning his friendsI watched it again and I have to say that if I didn't keep up with all the other seasons and episodes, I would have been lost myself.

There was just too much out of left field in this episode.


P. S. Lately, the reason I enjoy the the Didn't Love It threads is because there is so much common sense in these posts. At least we can say why we don't like it instead of offering an emotional response.

Okay, a little emotion in our posts is nice.

Well I've watched it 3 times trying to give it a fair chance and understand why people seem so impressed and I'm just not feeling it. I mean didn't we already do "Over the River and Through the Woods to Jacob's Cabin We Go" last season? Haven't we done the whole Ben manipulation of John Locke to death yet? Season 4 has been the worst season by a huge margin in my opinion and I'm hoping the final 3 hours will do something to impress me enough to care about coming back for Season 5.

Just wondering, if you're flying a chopper with a boatload of bloodthirsty thugs behind you who just slit someone's throat, how do you inconspicuously open a window and toss out a loaded bag including a bleeping device?

Just thinking, keamy might have had a small problem with that, going in all military-like and all.

Also, if there's only one bearing to get to the island, it must be the same that both Sayid was rowing and they were flying. A lone man in a small boat against a chopper flying over armed to the teeth. That should have been a nice Sayid pincushion episode, but they just neglected it.

There was more stuff in the episode that just seemed so...contrary to previous facts. I'm going to rewatch it, but I'm getting the impression they're trying to throw things like Christian in to tie up loose ends, and believability isn't a chief concern.

It took me 4 days to form an opinion on this episode, but ultimately, I’ve returned to this thread yet again this season. Here’s what I think didn’t work:

· Mercenary stuff is still really stupid.

· Body-bag count continues. Has there been an episode, recently, where people were not killed off?

· Time jumping was and is out of control. FBs; Richard’s around when Locke is born, etc. (just like when Ben was a kid); freighter doctor is dead, then alive, then dead; Keamy was gone when woman (Regina ??) killed herself and others on the ship were “sick”; Christian is buzzing around 2 – 3 years in the future last week and now is just chillin’ with Claire in Jacob’s pitch black cabin this week, etc.

· FBs, as usual, were unnecessary. The only thing of any relevance was Richard showing up when Locke was born, again when he was a little kid, and again (implied) when he was in high school. But, we already knew Locke was special and that the Island somehow chose him. Richard’s “appearances” really just begs one obvious question: why is Richard always the same age? I only see three possible answers: Option A- time travel. Option B- he’s dead but “here,” like Charlie. Option C- parallel universe kind of garbage.

· What have they done with Claire? “I’m fine. I’m with him (dad).” What? Speaking of which, why wouldn’t she have just said, “I’m with my dad (instead of “him”)? Just another example of the tortured dialogue this season- just to keep characters, or us, or both, in the dark a little longer. Then she shares a smile of relief with “dad” as if to say “Locke is special and he will save the Island.” For 3.5 seasons all Claire did was care for Aaron, then suddenly she just tosses him in the brush and… that’s it? All so we just ask, “Is she dead? Does her maybe-dead-dad have her under some kind of a spell?” Very bizarre. Maybe they can make this work going forward, but right now, it was really out there in left field- and not in a good way.

· Move the Island? What? God help us with where they are going with this.

· The excuse they gave Desmond for not going with Sayid- lame and stupid. All they had to do was have him say something like, “I can’t- I can’t risk it, brotha. Something obviously happened to me when we came here to the boat. If it happens again when we go back to the Island, I won’t have my bloody constant. Sorry, brotha.” How hard was that?

· It appears that they are definitely going down the path of over-the-top sci-fi, leaving the characters in the dust. They spent the first two seasons trying to build quality characters that we would care about and the payoff (so far) just hasn’t been worth it. Last season Charlie is killed off for no real good reason (apparently, just to haunt Hurley and tell Jack, through Hurley, that he shouldn’t be raising Aaron) and now Claire is turned into some weirdo, tossing Aaron in the brush to hang out in a dark cabin with maybe-dead-daddy who once abandoned her.

One more thing on Claire, Jack and daddy Shepard: does anyone else recall on the bonus features disc of S2, when they linked the characters via “six-degrees” Claire, Jack and Christian were linked to someone in static, waiving “hi” or something? Was this static person Jacob, maybe?

Only one thing can be said in regards to this episode..



wat


....

· The excuse they gave Desmond for not going with Sayid- lame and stupid. All they had to do was have him say something like, “I can’t- I can’t risk it, brotha. Something obviously happened to me when we came here to the boat. If it happens again when we go back to the Island, I won’t have my bloody constant. Sorry, brotha.” How hard was that?

I know!! Desmond crying off because passing through the barrier again might result in side effects, which might result in his brain fizzling - that would have been a fair excuse! Making Desmond look like selfish and uncaring is just ruining one of the few good characters remaining. Penny is fast becoming Desmond's "Waaaaalt!" They are gonna butcher their romance at this rate.

I know!! Desmond crying off because passing through the barrier again might result in side effects, which might result in his brain fizzling - that would have been a fair excuse! Making Desmond look like selfish and uncaring is just ruining one of the few good characters remaining. Penny is fast becoming Desmond's "Waaaaalt!" They are gonna butcher their romance at this rate.

I honestly think they: A) don’t remember past episodes; B) ignore them; or C) are just too lazy to think it out logically. If they had used something similar to my dialogue for Desmond, you’re exactly right- he comes off as sympathetic instead of a selfish tool. Not to mention, isn’t Desmond supposed to see Claire and Aaron get on a helicopter- or now he just doesn’t give damn about them because Penny is coming for him?

Desmond to Charlie (in the 4th dimension, or wherever Charlie is): “I’m sorry, brotha. I know- I know I said you had to die in order for the picture on the box not to change, but my girl is coming for me, now. Claire and Aaron are just going to have to take their chances with the M2 .50 caliber machine guns, RPGs and whatever Keamy has strapped to his arm. It’s all about me, now- yeah? See ya in another life, brotha.”

Seriously, who would hold it against him, if they used my logic? Sayid? Us? Then, they still would have accomplished their goal of keeping Desmond on the freighter- for whatever future reason. Also, not only would he most likely die if he went back, he would most assuredly be useless in the rescue of the gang on the Island. He’d be helping someone into the boat and then fall flat on his face and wake up in 1996 or something again.

I like the reasons posted on this thread much better than what Desmond told Sayid about not going on the Lostie rescue.

Another plausible reason for Desmond to stay on the freighter is so that he wouldn't take up a place on the raft...one more person can presumably be rescued on the first trip back...I could easily imagine Desmond saying to Sayid "Hey, brotha, as much as
I want to help, remember that I didn't fare so well on the chopper ride from The Island, and if I stay, you can bring back one more person."

Are we moving more quickly? I hadn't noticed. When season three ended, there was a freighter with people coming to rescue them. Now we're 11 episodes into season 4 -- and they're still on the beach. Yet we did have three shipper episodes and lots of scenes of horseshoes and board games. The whole series could have been wrapped up in half the amount of episodes they had planned.



It's because the only new bits of information you received was deliberately cryptic. It's a shell game. The only parts we understood were the bits we already knew. Emily is Locke's mom. He was always a loser but was told he was special. He believes he was chosen for something greater. He was raised in a foster home. He fell out of a window and became paralyzed. He went on a Walkabout to find himself. We knew all that before the episode aired. The rest was confusing nonsense, just more questions. The show is like a russian matroyshka doll. Every time it promises something you open it up and there's just another doll inside. The answers are always around the next corner.



And that's the whole problem right there and why I was furious when Michael wasn't able to kill himself, and furious again when we saw Keamy couldn't kill him with a loaded gun. Fate rules on this show. The island is in control of everything, so nothing these people do really matters. They are playing pieces nothing more.

Christian to pacejunkie (and the rest of us): “These are all excellent points you and the others on this thread make. They are all logical and they would have made the episode much better, but we don’t have time for all that, right now. So, why don’t you ask the one question that really matters?”

All of Us: “What would JJ do?”

Claire smiles- the kind of smile after taking a good hit on a bong.

FADE OUT

Wake me up when this show makes sense again.

My one last complaint about this episode was that so much came out of nowhere. For example:

Christian in the cabin and why he was in the cabin
Claire acting calm
The explanation of where Aaron was
Ben giving up his mantel so quickly
Jack being mobile so quickly after his surgery
Desmond staying on the boat and abandoning his friends.

Hmmm.

1. We've already seen Christian in the cabin, earlier in the season?
2. She's with her father/might be dead/who knows?
3. Well, that's where he is right? :)
4. Don't believe a thing Ben says.
5. The Island has very fast healing properties...I believe this was meant to show this.
6. HIs friends? His FRIENDS? lol. He's known these....strangers for what a month tops? They aren't his friends. I didn't see anything wrong with his explanation. He's been on that place a LOT longer than the rest of them, 3 years, a long time of that all on his own having to push a button every 2 minutes. I don't blame him for not wanting to set foot on the place again, who would want to go back, be honest?!?!?

I agree that it was a very strange episode, though. Disjointed, but I believe due to cramming stuff in. I still love the show.

Hmmm.

1. We've already seen Christian in the cabin, earlier in the season?
2. She's with her father/might be dead/who knows?
3. Well, that's where he is right? :)
4. Don't believe a thing Ben says.
5. The Island has very fast healing properties...I believe this was meant to show this.
6. HIs friends? His FRIENDS? lol. He's known these....strangers for what a month tops? They aren't his friends. I didn't see anything wrong with his explanation. He's been on that place a LOT longer than the rest of them, 3 years, a long time of that all on his own having to push a button every 2 minutes. I don't blame him for not wanting to set foot on the place again, who would want to go back, be honest?!?!?

I agree that it was a very strange episode, though. Disjointed, but I believe due to cramming stuff in. I still love the show.

Okay, now let’s go through your list.

1) Christian in the cabin. Yes, he has been in the cabin earlier in the season. So what? Locke was there to see Jacob- not daddy Shepard. This was just another “hurry up and wait” moment by TPTB. Locke goes into the cabin and sees someone sitting in the corner. Finally, we will see Jacob, right? Gotchya! It’s daddy Shepard, instead- he, he. And as an added bonus, Claire seems to have been hitting the DHARMA booze- now that she’s no longer having to nurse Aaron.

2) Claire is with her father/might be dead, etc. It is possible that they might make this work going forward, but right now, it was totally bizarre. I’ve already posted a more detailed opinion on the “Christian was never dead” thread, so I won’t repeat it all here, but this was way out in left field- and not in a good way. For 3.5 seasons all Claire did was care for Aaron, then suddenly she just tosses him in the brush and… that’s it? All so we just ask, “Is she dead? Does her kind of-dead-dad have her under some kind of a spell?” Very bizarre.

3) Well, that’s where Aaron was. This was just another example of the lame, cryptic dialogue that has plagued the show all season. Locke’s questions (of Claire) served the audience's curiosity (if we were there, of course we’re going to ask things like, “Where’s the baby?” To just be told, “he doesn’t belong here” and she’s “good with that” (to steal her line from when Sawyer asked if she wanted to follow him back to the beach camp) was ridiculous. This was all just so we will tune in next week and hope they give us the answer. That kind of thing stopped being interesting about a season ago.

4) Don’t believe a thing Ben says. That’s the point. Boy, Ben was playing Locke- again, for the 500th time. What they should do is have Ben stuff Locke into one of the lockers in the medical hatch and just get it over with already. We get it. Locke is a chump and Ben can manipulate him whenever he wants. Can we move on from this storyline now? Please?

5) The Island has very fast healing properties, etc. But even when Locke had his leg crushed in the first hatch and Ben had his surgery, they spent a fair amount of time in recovery (even for Island time). I suppose they will use the writer’s strike excuse for rushing this (just for the record, I’m getting really tired of that excuse being trotted out).

6) Not having a problem with Desmond refusing to go back for people he doesn’t really know, etc. Well, then, you could say that about any of them. They’ve all been together for only a few months. But, here’s the major problem (and why he came off as a selfish tool, instead of sympathetic): he told Charlie he must die in order for Claire and Aaron to get on a rescue helicopter (otherwise the picture on the box would change, etc.). Now, that his girl Penny is coming for him, he’s all, “sucks to be you, Claire and Aaron, and the rest of you for that matter.” Mercenaries with M2 .50 caliber machine guns, RPGs and whatever Keamy has strapped to his arm- none of that concerns him, now.

The solution (to make him sympathetic and understandable) was very simple: just have him say something like he couldn’t risk it, because of “the constant” / time travel problem (i.e. he would die and probably not be able to help, anyway). We all would buy that, including Sayid, and then he doesn’t look like a selfish tool. And to answer your question, honestly, if I knew there was a young woman with a baby and another woman who was pregnant on the Island, you bet you’re a** I’d go back for them. Especially, when it was my “flashes” that caused Charlie to let himself die for Claire and Aaron. That’s why he came off as selfish.

I honestly think they: A) don’t remember past episodes; B) ignore them; or C) are just too lazy to think it out logically. If they had used something similar to my dialogue for Desmond, you’re exactly right- he comes off as sympathetic instead of a selfish tool. Not to mention, isn’t Desmond supposed to see Claire and Aaron get on a helicopter- or now he just doesn’t give damn about them because Penny is coming for him?

Desmond to Charlie (in the 4th dimension, or wherever Charlie is): “I’m sorry, brotha. I know- I know I said you had to die in order for the picture on the box not to change, but my girl is coming for me, now. Claire and Aaron are just going to have to take their chances with the M2 .50 caliber machine guns, RPGs and whatever Keamy has strapped to his arm. It’s all about me, now- yeah?”


The writers are dealing with their lose ends by ignoring them. It sucks because the Desmond/Charlie story was about the only thing engaging me last season. Damon promised we would see Desmond reflecting on his flashes in S4 and questioning his part in Charlies death, but there has been nothing. I feel so emotionally cheated now. When Desmond pressed his hand to the glass while Charlie was drowning they gave the impression that Desmond cared. Desmond alone knows that Charlie willingly gave his life for Claire and Aarons rescue. He hasn't told anyone this, he hasn't given Claire the list Charlie earnestly wanted passed onto her, he hasn't made any effort to see the helicopter vision fulfilled. We are back to the Desmond of Catch-22 who had planned to sacrifice Charlie to get his girl back.

If Charlie ever visits Desmond from the 4th Dimension I hope he comes carrying a crossbow.

Marc B, good reply mate, but regarding Desmond.
He's been shown in the past to have done something cowardly, and he wants the love of his life.
Yes, he is being entirely selfish.
That's one of the things that has made Lost so popular and set it apart - the "heroes" aren't perfect, they aren't all moral compasses.
Every single one of them has skeletons in their closet, and that's probably the reason they've been brought to this island.
Some of you are screaming that this episode was rubbish cos Desmond didn't act morally and was being selfish? I actually applaud that, not deride it. He's not a moral automaton, he's crapping himself and doesn't want to go back to that place. It's not really Hawaii you know ;)

Marc B, good reply mate, but regarding Desmond.
He's been shown in the past to have done something cowardly, and he wants the love of his life.
Yes, he is being entirely selfish.
That's one of the things that has made Lost so popular and set it apart - the "heroes" aren't perfect, they aren't all moral compasses.
Every single one of them has skeletons in their closet, and that's probably the reason they've been brought to this island.
Some of you are screaming that this episode was rubbish cos Desmond didn't act morally and was being selfish? I actually applaud that, not deride it. He's not a moral automaton, he's crapping himself and doesn't want to go back to that place. It's not really Hawaii you know ;)

I hear what you’re saying, about Desmond, but this is the problem that I have with many of the characters on this show (Jack, Locke, Desmond, etc.) this season- there is no real growth. Jack is still a control freak with women in his centric episodes and always has an outburst at someone (“You’re son? You’re not even related to him!”)- like Al Pacino must have in all of his movie contracts. Locke is still a chump, being played by everyone (Kate, Sawyer and especially Ben)- maybe Claire can get in on the action now that she is some sort of weirdo. Desmond has always been a coward, but one would hope that after seeing some dude (Charlie) sacrifice his life for a woman he loved (and her son), maybe Des would grow a pair and not be so much of a coward, anymore.

For the record, I do like multidimensional characters (all good or all evil is indeed comic book), but they need to have these people grow and change- can’t save it all for S6. This episode was an opportunity to show that (for Desmond), but they blew it- as usual, this season.

I honestly think the writers/creators are in danger of losing the "average fan" at the moment to their vast array of confusing storylines.

Now that we are getting into time travel...it's becoming a bit much.

[German fan speaking here, and my English is somewhere on Jin's level...]

To me, Cabin Fever didn't really feel like something out of a season, that was planned to have 16 episodes and then was even further compressed down to 13...

The events on the freighter were fast-paced, cool and quite surprising. But the Island stuff... Maybe the scene with Locke, Hurley and Ben wondering if anyone knows, where they're heading, was somewhat prophetic.

There was a lot of new stuff in the episode and much of it might be of some importance. But Cabin Fever looked a lot like some kind of... "collage"... offering several but only very small revelations. It lacked pacing same as it lacked a unifying theme or a "stand-alone-quality". It just didn't feel like a "story", especially when compared to The Constant or The Beginning of the End.

Nevertheless, when Locke made use of that "Don't tell me what I can't do" phrase, I was... what's the word... accompanying him? Not sure if you can imagine, but compared to the rather dull-sounding German "Sag' mir nicht, was ich nicht tun kann", the English term sounds a lot like something that could stop an incoming asteroid. And I'm still waiting for the moment I can use "Calling my bloody constant" in one of our English lessons at school. :-)

[German fan speaking here, and my English is somewhere on Jin's level...]

To me, Cabin Fever didn't really feel like something out of a season, that was planned to have 16 episodes and then was even further compressed down to 13...

The events on the freighter were fast-paced, cool and quite surprising. But the Island stuff... Maybe the scene with Locke, Hurley and Ben wondering if anyone knows, where they're heading, was somewhat prophetic.

There was a lot of new stuff in the episode and much of it might be of some importance. But Cabin Fever looked a lot like some kind of... "collage"... offering several but only very small revelations. It lacked pacing same as it lacked a unifying theme or a "stand-alone-quality". It just didn't feel like a "story", especially when compared to The Constant or The Beginning of the End.

Nevertheless, when Locke made use of that "Don't tell me what I can't do" phrase, I was... what's the word... accompanying him? Not sure if you can imagine, but compared to the rather dull-sounding German "Sag' mir nicht, was ich nicht tun kann", the English term sounds a lot like something that could stop an incoming asteroid. And I'm still waiting for the moment I can use "Calling my bloody constant" in one of our English lessons at school. :-)

I agree with you. The episode could only be understood if you had watched all of the episodes that this episode touched upon. Which is a lot of episodes and a lot of scenes that are spread over several seasons.

The episode did feel like a lot of little pieces of information put into a funnel all leading up to the finale.

I hope the finale does all that information justice. And to think that all of season 4 takes place over 7 to 10 days!

I agree with you. The episode could only be understood if you had watched all of the episodes that this episode touched upon. Which is a lot of episodes and a lot of scenes that are spread over several seasons.

I had people in the watching live thread here asking: "Huh? Who's Horace? Does he have a last name?" And these are people who log onto a site to discuss LOST while it's airing!

This episode depressed me in a way... It's a good thing I have lost any trace of affection or caring for Locke earlier when he stood and waited for Ben's orders to let Sawyer and Claire in, because that scene with Abaddon saddened me enough to seriously question my attachment to the show. I cannot believe they went there and had Locke be a complete patsy to the Island before he even got there and take away one of the greatest things about his character: the determination to beat the wheelchair. It wasn't Locke. He didn't start the fight on his own. He probably never would have, had it not been for Big Brother in the South Pacific.

I hate that scene.

I had people in the watching live thread here asking: "Huh? Who's Horace? Does he have a last name?" And these are people who log onto a site to discuss LOST while it's airing!

This episode depressed me in a way... It's a good thing I have lost any trace of affection or caring for Locke earlier when he stood and waited for Ben's orders to let Sawyer and Claire in, because that scene with Abaddon saddened me enough to seriously question my attachment to the show. I cannot believe they went there and had Locke be a complete patsy to the Island before he even got there and take away one of the greatest things about his character: the determination to beat the wheelchair. It wasn't Locke. He didn't start the fight on his own. He probably never would have, had it not been for Big Brother in the South Pacific.

I hate that scene.

Yes, they sure have done a number on Locke, all right. He was (past tense) my favorite character. Now, I don’t even know who my favorite character is on the show. He had a hard life as a baby, a child, a teen, an adult, etc. but then was reborn in the Pilot (even though we didn’t know it at the time). He grew to have a connection with the Island, but really struggled (which was a good thing- wouldn’t want him to change for the better that easily), then in S3 it seemed like they just stalled on his character growth- but got better at the end. This season- a disaster. This episode- pretty much a waste, as well.

We knew he had a hard life from the prior seasons- who wouldn’t growing up in foster care, being thrown out a window by his father and having his back broken, and a kidney stolen (again, by his father) for God’s sake? We got it, already. Instead of spending so much time in the episode on that, why not show what happened to Claire- why she abandoned Aaron in the brush to follow her dead-but-here-dad, who once abandoned her? I know, I know- so we could all be surprised in the cabin scene. I’m sorry, but I’m really getting tired of the “hurry up and wait ‘til the next episode or season” stuff. There are not that many episodes left, really, and TPTB have a habit of never giving us proper closure on certain stories (e.g. Libby at Santa Rosa, with Hurley). I wouldn’t be surprised if we never find out what really happened to Claire.

They spent the majority of the FBs showing us that he had it hard and that Richard kept thinking he was special. We knew all of that. Who doesn’t remember the scene with Richard and Locke looking down at the Other’s “tent-camp” last season, when Richard gave Locke the file on Sawyer (besides, of course, the people who didn’t know who Horace was)? Richard told Locke, face to face, that they all thought he was special. The scene with Abaddon was just another lame way for them to connect the two characters either in the 3-part finale this season, or in S5 or S6. Terrible way for him to want to go on that walkabout.

P.S. – Love your Avatar of Claire “on Jacob”- or was it DHARMA booze or grass?

Silly. Just plain silly. From start to finish.

I liked the episode but this is the didnt love it thread and there was definetly something there that was terrible... remember the "Save the Junkie, Save the World" slogan Im going with "Move the Island, Jump the Shark"!

Diasppointed to say the least. After something nice back home, it looked like this was going to be what There's No place like Home was. Really Big Production, little bitty show