...before the car accident.

When he's told by her in S1 that he was immaculately conceived, she wasn't lying.

I'm confused...I am not totally refuting your claim here, but she seemed pretty certain on the gurney that she was pregnant. She told the nurses she was about 6 months along.

She told the nurses she was 6 months pregnant.

Do you actually watch this show or stare at the TV?

you can disagree with the poster but there is no need for comments like that second line.

Pregnancies don't always 'show', there's no reason she couldn't have been pregnant before the car accident.

Still though, he really might have been immaculately conceived. I dont think it happened when she got hit by the car, but who knows at what point this woman, Emily, got knocked up. Perhaps the reason she's so deadset against keeping the baby is because she has no idea how she got pregnant.

I'm sorry but I think this refutes the immaculate conception idea. Plus Emily even told Locke that she lied about that, didn't she?

Yeah, I seem to recall Emily admitting that was a lie... but I could be wrong.

She knew she was pregnant at the hospital. It is possible for a girl to be 6 months without really showing much. She did seem pretty thin, so may not have a tendency to put on weight.

I'm sorry but I think this refutes the immaculate conception idea. Plus Emily even told Locke that she lied about that, didn't she?
Not really. He could ahve still been immaculated concieved. We are not really sure that Cooper is John's 'real biological' father.

I'm sorry but I think this refutes the immaculate conception idea. Plus Emily even told Locke that she lied about that, didn't she?

Yeah. It seems like she was really pregnant. At first I thought she looked about 12 years old, weird.

I didn't think she looked pregnant at all either. We seemed to have gotten a pretty good look at her when she was all dressed up to go out. Maybe because I wasn't looking for it, but I was surprised when she said she was pregnant.

Of course, Locke's mom was a little nuts. Maybe she did lie about it. Or not.

And yeah, at six months, not all women are showing that they are "preggy" and Locke was a few months early.

I vote she was preggy and Cooper, who must have been, what? 30 at the time, and he was a con man, and she was a little on the naive side (okay a lot) is the father. (Geez, what a bad sentence. Where's my Elements Of Style?)

Well, you know Emily told John he was immaculately conceived...

Five to six months isn't that far but she should have been showing a little. She was a thin girl. It may have been hidden under the poofy poodle skirt, her coat, purse, etc.

We are not really sure that Cooper is John's 'real biological' father.

I think we can be pretty sure because that's why Cooper wanted Locke's kidney. If he wasn't a biological relation, I don't think he would've gone to the trouble of conning him out of it...he would've just gone to the organ donor lists!

A 110-lb (max) girl would have a definite, visible bump at 5-6 months.
TPTB showed us her slender figure on purpose. Between that and the "immaculately conceived" bit, there's something funny going on. We know Emily's mentally ill, so that adds to the confusion. TPTB likes to keep us confused.

I knew a girl in school who had the same kind of figure as Emily in this episode, she gave birth in the school bathroom at 8 months and no one ever realised she was pregnant. It's perfectly possible.

Yeah, I agree with Aversion. You hear about this stuff on the news pretty often actually. Pregnant teen doesn't know or is able to hide it easily because it doesn't show.

I at 8 months and no one ever realised she was pregnant. It's perfectly possible.
Yes, it is, if you wear loose tops.
The point is not "what's possible" - it's that TPTB deliberately showed Emily's slender figure, gave Locke an extremely premature birth (in the 1950's, 6-month babies didn't have near the chance they do now), and they earlier had Emily tell Locke he was immaculately conceived.
Plus Cooper's was NOT 30 years older than Locke, or 15 years older than Emily.

Put it all together, and it says we don't have the whole story of Locke's conception.

Well, she was definately on her way out to meet someone she loved, as she told her mother.

... Perhaps Richard is Locke's father...?

I thought Emily's mom seemed creepy and suspicious. Why was she so involved in the goings on with the baby. Back then, family members waited in the waiting room. Was she a nurse and i missed it?

Here's a far fetched idea off the top of my head. Maybe Emily was used in some kind of test where they implanted the sperm of some special person into her so she could bear this special child. And maybe her mom was in on it. Emily might consider this an "immaculate conception" because she never did the deed.

Why was Locke being raised by some foster family and not his own grandma? If grandma was in on the plan, she would probably make it a point not to get attached to the kid, because someone else had bigger plans for him.

For those saying Locke's mother wasn't pregnant: how do you read the scene of her giving birth? Is this another "Jack didn't have an appendectomy" thread?

Funny how Locke starts out life in a box of sorts.

For those saying Locke's mother wasn't pregnant: how do you read the scene of her giving birth? Is this another "Jack didn't have an appendectomy" thread? She was pregnant and birthed John at some point, that's for sure. My point (can't speak for others) is that TPTB deliberately showed her slender figure and did all the similar yada yada stuff to emphasize the mystery of John's conception.

Funny how Locke starts out life in a box of sorts.
He was a box man from the get-go, good one!

I personally think those who say she wasn't pregnant because it didn't show are analyzing the show too closely ... in the sense to not recognize there are errors or inconsistencies for these kind of things.

Okay I had a premature infant at 23 weeks pregnant. I am not as skinny as the actress, but I wasn't showing yet. In fact some people didn't even know at the time and did a double take. So, I think it's perfectly possible. Secondly, I think they are trying to prove here that Locke's birth was a MIRACLE. Because I had my daughter at 23 weeks and she lived for 3 weeks. That's still considered a miracle in this day and age. His lungs wouldn't have been developed and most babies can't breathe on their own at all. Furthermore I was told that boy babies have a LOWER chance of survival than girls do, but they weren't sure why.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=114473&fullsize=1

That's pretty skinny for 6 months

Pregnancies don't always 'show', there's no reason she couldn't have been pregnant before the car accident.

They don't always show and the important thing also to remember is she was hiding it from her mom more then likely.

If Alpert was around, could he have gotten her pregnant somehow?
Maybe set it up to get Locke born?
Maybe he picks and chooses mates for people whether they want to or not to get the chosen people born.

It would be a terrible idea for John to have been immaculately conceived. It would make all the stories with him and his father pointless. Besides, John's father conned him because he wanted his kidney since they would be a match. If that wasn't really his father, he wouldn't have been able to use his kidney.

Emily only told John that he was immaculately conceived so that he would think she was crazy; that is what Anthony Cooper told her to say. He wanted John to look for him and think it was John's idea. It was really Anthony's idea however--he needed John to come to him and give him the kidney.

Also, I must put in my two cents about Emily's lack of baby bump--
It was a high-waisted skirt, so this would have easily concealed a pregnancy in a young teen. What was she, about 15 or 16? Not every woman carries a baby the same way. I think the point here is not if she was really pregnant, or if John was immaculately concieved--I think the point is why Emily gave him up, and that fact that John was very special from day one. He has had to fight his whole life to survive.

#1 - We don't know that Cooper is Locke's father. He conned him for his kidney because he didn't want to wait on a donor list. How he knew he was a match.... ????

#2 - You can't believe anything that Locke's "mother" told him. She could have been a complete stranger working with Cooper in the con.

#3 - It is totally possible for Emily to not be showing. A few years ago, there was a 10 year old girl that went to the doctor's office, and the next day had a 6lb baby. Nobody knew she was pregnant! Real life... not television.

Okay I had a premature infant at 23 weeks pregnant. I am not as skinny as the actress, but I wasn't showing yet. In fact some people didn't even know at the time and did a double take. So, I think it's perfectly possible. Secondly, I think they are trying to prove here that Locke's birth was a MIRACLE. Because I had my daughter at 23 weeks and she lived for 3 weeks. That's still considered a miracle in this day and age. His lungs wouldn't have been developed and most babies can't breathe on their own at all. Furthermore I was told that boy babies have a LOWER chance of survival than girls do, but they weren't sure why.


I am so sorry to hear about your baby, sttct

Of course she was pregnant

You missed the whole point of her getting hit by the car

It was that someone or something was trying to KILL Locke. When that didnt work..Locke caught all kinds of infections and problems but still beat them---remember---a miracle baby

You dont write his mother getting hit by the car and have no reason behind it

I thought Emily's mom seemed creepy and suspicious. Why was she so involved in the goings on with the baby. Back then, family members waited in the waiting room. Was she a nurse and i missed it?

Here's a far fetched idea off the top of my head. Maybe Emily was used in some kind of test where they implanted the sperm of some special person into her so she could bear this special child. And maybe her mom was in on it. Emily might consider this an "immaculate conception" because she never did the deed.

Why was Locke being raised by some foster family and not his own grandma? If grandma was in on the plan, she would probably make it a point not to get attached to the kid, because someone else had bigger plans for him.
I agree.. it's very possible. And Emily's mom also seemed to know Richard. They had a connection when he was looking into the room through the window.
As far as someone not showing at 6 months, another person already mentioned that that would only be true if they wore loose clothing.
She had a tight belt on, and she was dancing and twisting. Even after 3 months, a belt is the last thing a pregnant person wears... even if you don't show much, it's just not comfortable.
Richard being there implies to me that she was somehow artificially inseminated.. but how she got from nothing to six months in one ambulance ride can only have happened if there was a time travel or long unconscious state or two separate incidents between when we saw her hit by the car to when she is being revived by the nurse.
I don't think that Emily was immaculately concieved, but rather artificially. Richard was big on experiments and was the one that recruited Julliette. It's still possible that the kidney con artist (what's his name?) was his father.. maybe he sold his sperm to a sperm bank or something. It may not have been Richard's issue who's sperm it was.

It would be a terrible idea for John to have been immaculately conceived. It would make all the stories with him and his father pointless. Besides, John's father conned him because he wanted his kidney since they would be a match. If that wasn't really his father, he wouldn't have been able to use his kidney.

It would be so freakin stupid I think if he was conceived annoymously. We have seen this copied in Star Wars, not every Savior has to come from a virgin birth it is kind of played don't you think.

...before the car accident.

When he's told by her in S1 that he was immaculately conceived, she wasn't lying.

Huh? What in the world are you basing that on? Generally a theory is derived from analyzing what has happened and applying it to what they think is going to happen? You'll have to excuse the people that mocked you on this, but it is kind of silly to just make a random statement and not give any reason for why you think it. It has about as much sway as:


Guess what: Jack is an alien from beyond our galaxy! It says it right on his tatoos.

After reading through a lot of the other posts..sorry, didn't realize I walked into the everyone has a constant room.

I'm not sure I get this thread. If she wasn't pregnant, how did she give birth?
And some people hardly show until their final few months of pregnancy, especially young teenage girls. It happens all the time. My aunt wore a bikini through her sixth month because she wasn't showing at all.

As to Cooper not being Locke's real father, Emily's statement about immaculate conception was intriguing, but Emily admitted that was a lie Cooper told her to tell Locke, so Locke would think that finding his father was his idea. Plus Cooper went to elaborate lengths to con Locke into giving him his kidney. If he didn't have a really good reason to think Locke was a match, why would he have done that?

And while it extremely coincidental that so many people are struck by cars on Lost, I don't want to read too much into this. That just may be a convenient construct which works really well on screen because it's so shocking and violent, but believable.

And although I agree everything on Lost has a point, I think the point in showing Emily's accident may simply have been showing that Locke has been a miracle his entire life. He survived against the odds over and over again, because The Island needed him and wouldn't allow him to die.

The big point I think we are supposed to get is that Locke was chosen by The Island, even before he was born, and that gives me the chills.

As to why Emily had a reaction to seeing Richard Alpert and is otherwise totally weird, I suspect she's been plagued by visions for sometime, at least since she became pregnant, and Alpert may have been a part of those visions. The mothers of of the main prophets in Christian tradition (Christ and John The Baptist) also had visions during their pregnancies and therefore knew something of their sons' destinies. This might explain why she gave Locke up, and wouldn't even hold him, although she clearly seemed to love him. She knew she wasn't supposed to raise him.

...before the car accident.

When he's told by her in S1 that he was immaculately conceived, she wasn't lying.

Yes and no. I think there were two trips to the hospital. We didn't see the first, after she was hit and recovered. We saw the second, when she went into labor. I think she was....wait for it...artificially inseminated the first time she was at the hospital. I don't think she was a virgin though. And one more thing, I'll bet she got dumped by the guy she thought was the dad after she got hit.

Sound vaguely familiar?

I agree.. it's very possible. And Emily's mom also seemed to know Richard. They had a connection when he was looking into the room through the window. I've been thinking about this and his visits to John throughout his life. Do you think it is possible since Richard is ageless (time traveller?) that perhaps he visited Emily or her mother in the past and Emily's mother had a vague recollection of seeing him before?

Richard being there implies to me that she was somehow artificially inseminated.. It's funny so many people are saying this as I've suspected for awhile that Sun was artificially inseminated while she was going through fertility treatments before the crash...

Yes and no. I think there were two trips to the hospital. We didn't see the first, after she was hit and recovered. We saw the second, when she went into labor. I think she was....wait for it...artificially inseminated the first time she was at the hospital. I don't think she was a virgin though. And one more thing, I'll bet she got dumped by the guy she thought was the dad after she got hit.

Sound vaguely familiar?

Provocative. I considered this possibility as well. But when she is being pushed through the hospital on the gurney she tells the physician she is six months pregnant. So the pregnancy is clearly not the reason she is on the gurney. She had to have been there initially because of the accident. And they could not have inseminated her during that hospital stay if she was already pregnant.

Plus Cooper's was NOT 30 years older than Locke, or 15 years older than Emily.

This confused me too. On the show, Locke is supposed to be in his 50's, yet the last time we saw Cooper (in the Black Rock) he sure didn't seem to be in his 80's!!!

#1 - We don't know that Cooper is Locke's father. He conned him for his kidney because he didn't want to wait on a donor list. How he knew he was a match....?

Eh, I'm pretty convinced Cooper is his real dad. Even if he somehow found out he was a blood match with a stranger, when they got to the hospital and the transplant team did all the cross-matching, the fact that they were NOT biologically related would definitely have come up.

Besides the fact that certain blood markers could be incompatible, there is a whole different protocol for strangers or friends donating a kidney than there is for a family member donating a kidney.

The team certainly would NOT have let John donate his kidney thinking he was giving it to his father if they were not actually related. He would have to be informed of that and then give consent for the surgery if he still wanted to, but as a friend donor. Some places even insist that friend donors go through several counseling sessions and a waiting period first.

So, no, I don't believe they are unrelated or that would have been a huge issue before the transplant ever took place.

I dont know if anyone touched on this or not.. I also dont know if this is really a spoiler or not??

perhaps Richard is Lockes father?

Maybe a time travelling ben or even widmore was driving the car which knocked her over. How funny would that twist be. :rolleyes: :cool:

Richards is not part of the chemical sequence :D

but I guess he is a catalysis so that he checks whether John is special or not.

Provocative. I considered this possibility as well. But when she is being pushed through the hospital on the gurney she tells the physician she is six months pregnant. So the pregnancy is clearly not the reason she is on the gurney. She had to have been there initially because of the accident. And they could not have inseminated her during that hospital stay if she was already pregnant.

I went to the transcripts to see what exactly was said and when.

(wheels rattling)
NURSE: (Echoing faintly) Honey? Honey, can you hear me? Honey, can you hear me?
NURSE: (Normal voice) That's good. Try and stay awake now. Must be internal.
Keep it steady. Out of the way. Pulse!
She's bleeding. Her heartbeat's dropping fast.
EMILY: I'm pregnant.
NURSE: What? What did you say?
EMILY: I'm pregnant. I'm five--I'm almost six months.
NURSE: She--she's pregnant.
(Grunting)


So, if Emily had been rushed to the hospital because of bleeding and abdominal pain, we could see a scene much like the one above.

I realize this is a little out of the box, but so is trying to convince me the girl dancing around the bedroom was 6 months pregnant. I know girls hide pregnancies all the time, but the usually do i with looser clothing.

look obviously she was pregnant, whether she looked it or not she did have a baby inside her.

look obviously she was pregnant, whether she looked it or not she did have a baby inside her.

I think you need to read my other post. I never denied she was pregnant. I don't think she was pregnant when she got hit.

This is what I said.

Yes and no. I think there were two trips to the hospital. We didn't see the first, after she was hit and recovered. We saw the second, when she went into labor. I think she was....wait for it...artificially inseminated the first time she was at the hospital. I don't think she was a virgin though. And one more thing, I'll bet she got dumped by the guy she thought was the dad after she got hit.

Sound vaguely familiar?

I wasn't neccessarily talking to you Avius, I was just stating a fact, I also hadn't thought about them not being connected, they were however part of the same flashback, so I would have to say they are the same night.

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that a nearly 6 month old fetus was somehow inserted into her at the hospital, then she gave birth to it? If that is the case, how did she know to tell the nurses?

Wouldn't an immaculate conception need to be followed by a pregnancy and birth anyway?

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that a nearly 6 month old fetus was somehow inserted into her at the hospital, then she gave birth to it? If that is the case, how did she know to tell the nurses?

Wouldn't an immaculate conception need to be followed by a pregnancy and birth anyway?

I'll try to make it a little more clear. Emily gets hit by a car. She goes to the hospital and recovers. (We don't see the italicized part.) Fast forward, and we see a now pregnant Emily being rushed into the hospital for bleeding and pain. She's been hiding a pregnancy that no one knew about that would have occurred at the time of the accident, not before. A pregnancy that I contend was done to her at her first hospitalization (the one we never actually saw). Within that first flash were actually two different times. Her getting hit, and then months later her going into labor. I know not everyone will like this idea.

For me it's a very similar situation as what Claire experienced. Claire was in an accident. One she claimed she didn't cause. She was taken to a hospital. Within a fairly brief time of that Claire discovered she was pregnant. I troubles me that we never saw Claire unconscious in the hospital (where an insemination would likely occur), but she was unconscious at the scene of the accident.

Another instance of crashing is Anthony Cooper who was hit on the highway and woke up on the island. This is a precedent for the MO of the others. They make it look like an accident so that no one is the wiser.

Avius, I don't remember the sequence of events you describe re Claire's pregnancy but I still haven't seen all of the S1 episodes (which hasn't stopped me from being thoroughly hooked) so I probably missed it. Anyway, the parallels between Claire's and Emily's car accidents and the timing of their pregnancies are intriguing. The older man referred to by Emily's mother is beginning to look like a red herring. I also find interesting the fact that Claire's mother ended up in a coma, Claire ended up on the island and Emily ended up in a mental hospital, at least for awhile. I wonder what happened to Emily's mother.

Yeah, I really like the parallels between the two women. For Claire's story you'll want to see Par Avion. That's where the accident occurred.

#2 - You can't believe anything that Locke's "mother" told him. She could have been a complete stranger working with Cooper in the con.
.

This is my thinking exactly. We can be pretty sure Cooper is Locke's dad because of the whole kidney thing, but how do we know the crazy lady was Locke's mom?

I'll try to make it a little more clear. Emily gets hit by a car. She goes to the hospital and recovers. (We don't see the italicized part.) Fast forward, and we see a now pregnant Emily being rushed into the hospital for bleeding and pain. She's been hiding a pregnancy that no one knew about that would have occurred at the time of the accident, not before. A pregnancy that I contend was done to her at her first hospitalization (the one we never actually saw). Within that first flash were actually two different times. Her getting hit, and then months later her going into labor. I know not everyone will like this idea. An interesting theory. Oddly, Emily has the same blood markings on her face in the scenes on the gurney and in the delivery room.

For me it's a very similar situation as what Claire experienced. Claire was in an accident. One she claimed she didn't cause. She was taken to a hospital. Within a fairly brief time of that Claire discovered she was pregnant. I troubles me that we never saw Claire unconscious in the hospital (where an insemination would likely occur), but she was unconscious at the scene of the accident.I never got the idea that Claire's accident happened within a month or so of meeting Tom and getting pregnant. I looked to Lostpedia timeline for help, but they don't mention Claire's accident on the timeline. My impression of Goth Claire was that her accident happened years before she met Tom.

Obviously, with Richard looking in on the baby, something else is going on. I'm not sure what, but the above keeps me from latching on to Emily-Claire artificial insemination action.

I'm trying hard to stay far away from some of the totally ludicrous statements made in this thread.
Ok. Regarding Emily's claim that John was immaculately conceived.. please correct me if I'm wrong, but in the episode (S1) where Locke searches for her, finds out she's a schizophrenic with ongoing mental issues, he gets knocked down by a car and then she tells him he was immaculately conceived which I thought at the time and still do was just part of her mental illness. Part of showing that she was mentally ill. Not something to be taken as fact. Not a statement of truth. It was akin to her saying that aliens came and implanted her. Meanwhile, Cooper claimed that he didn't even know about him until later on when Emily asked for money.

In this episode, we see her dancing around just fine - I don't know what type of underwear she's wearing.. a girdle or control top panties is possible so we don't know if she has a bump or swell or is showing - and we see her run out and get hit by a car. We see her being rolled on a gurney at which time she tells a nurse that she is 5... almost 6 months pregnant. That is confirmed by her giving birth to a baby she wants to name John. Granted, we didn't see the baby crown and can't prove that baby John emerged from her innards - but based on what we did see.. there's not a reason in hell to assume that it didn't happen just that way. She got pregnant - the regular folks way. She had an overbearing freakyish mother and didn't tell her she was pregnant and didn't show. If she was showing, she could have been wearing a girdle. We don't know. For the element of surprising us (the viewers) they showed her slender build. We didn't expect this. It doesn't in anyway indicate that John is the next Jesus or that Emily is the second Mary.

This is my thinking exactly. We can be pretty sure Cooper is Locke's dad because of the whole kidney thing, but how do we know the crazy lady was Locke's mom?

But wasn't the missing kidney what ultimately saved Locke's life? Maybe Cooper never really needed a kidney at all.
100%

I never got the idea that Claire's accident happened within a month or so of meeting Tom and getting pregnant. I looked to Lostpedia timeline for help, but they don't mention Claire's accident on the timeline. My impression of Goth Claire was that her accident happened years before she met Tom.




Goth Claire could've already been with Thomas. Lostpedia has some speculative info on how long Claire's mom was in a coma, but I can't find anything to verify how much time actually passed between Goth Claire and pregnant Claire. I sort of have a little scenario in my head that Claire would've grown out of her Goth look once there was no point in rebelling against her mom anymore.
100%
I'm trying hard to stay far away from some of the totally ludicrous statements made in this thread.
Ok. Regarding Emily's claim that John was immaculately conceived.. please correct me if I'm wrong, but in the episode (S1) where Locke searches for her, finds out she's a schizophrenic with ongoing mental issues, he gets knocked down by a car and then she tells him he was immaculately conceived which I thought at the time and still do was just part of her mental illness. Part of showing that she was mentally ill. Not something to be taken as fact. Not a statement of truth. It was akin to her saying that aliens came and implanted her. Meanwhile, Cooper claimed that he didn't even know about him until later on when Emily asked for money.

In this episode, we see her dancing around just fine - I don't know what type of underwear she's wearing.. a girdle or control top panties is possible so we don't know if she has a bump or swell or is showing - and we see her run out and get hit by a car. We see her being rolled on a gurney at which time she tells a nurse that she is 5... almost 6 months pregnant. That is confirmed by her giving birth to a baby she wants to name John. Granted, we didn't see the baby crown and can't prove that baby John emerged from her innards - but based on what we did see.. there's not a reason in hell to assume that it didn't happen just that way. She got pregnant - the regular folks way. She had an overbearing freakyish mother and didn't tell her she was pregnant and didn't show. If she was showing, she could have been wearing a girdle. We don't know. For the element of surprising us (the viewers) they showed her slender build. We didn't expect this. It doesn't in anyway indicate that John is the next Jesus or that Emily is the second Mary.

What you're forgetting is that this is Lost, not Grey's Anatomy, a show which most of the fun is theorizing why something may not be the way it first seems.

I thought Emily's mom seemed creepy and suspicious. Why was she so involved in the goings on with the baby. Back then, family members waited in the waiting room. Was she a nurse and i missed it?.

I was struck by the odd notion that Emily's mom was actually a younger Mrs. Hawking.

I was struck by the odd notion that Emily's mom was actually a younger Mrs. Hawking.

Funny you should say that. I sort of saw the resemblance too.

I looked at screen caps since my last post in which I bought into the two trips to the hospital theory. As lockesmithe has pointed out, Emily has facial injuries when seen on the gurney and in the delivery room. She also has wet hair when she is on the gurney which is consistent with the rain we saw when she was hit by the car. I haven't seen any screencaps from when she and her mother (I think) were looking at John in the hospital later. I nevertheless think that there have been way too many automobile accidents to be asked to swallow yet another as merely a way to move the plot along. Why not just have Emily rushed to the hospital with appendicitis (ok, something else---that's been used already) or something and give birth prematurely?

Goth Claire could've already been with Thomas. Lostpedia has some speculative info on how long Claire's mom was in a coma, but I can't find anything to verify how much time actually passed between Goth Claire and pregnant Claire. I sort of have a little scenario in my head that Claire would've grown out of her Goth look once there was no point in rebelling against her mom anymore.Avius..While I continue to assert that Goth Claire was in vogue years before blondie, pregnant Claire...I am still wondering what you make of the fact that Emily had the same blood markings on her face while on the gurney and in the delivery room.

I'm all for thinking something was going on other than what we were shown, just because Richard showed up. I'd prefer a story line that an immortal or time-traveling Tom impregnated both Claire and Emily.

Avius..While I continue to assert that Goth Claire was in vogue years before blondie, pregnant Claire...I am still wondering what you make of the fact that Emily had the same blood markings on her face while on the gurney and in the delivery room.

I'm all for thinking something was going on other than what we were shown, just because Richard showed up. I'd prefer a story line that an immortal or time-traveling Tom impregnated both Claire and Emily.

I'll take a look at the caps of both Emily and Claire. At the very least there's a strong parallel here to the inauspicious beginnings of both Claire and Locke. Oh, don't forget Icky Ethan creeping around outside Juliet's sister's apartment. Right. Before. She. Got.
Pregnant.

I see Goth kids around here all the time. I didn't think it had necessarily gone out of vogue.

Edit: Ah hell. I can see the facial contusions now. Well, maybe she got beat up? Eh.
100%
Okay, I'm not ready to give up the notion. The girl was struck hard by a car, and yet was still able to deliver a baby? No attention to her injuries that she should have sustained from getting hit by the car? So, I'm going to argue that the injuries were caused by another trauma that induced her early labor. Ha!

These are just things I noticed and I'm not endorsing any theory just pointing out somethings.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=114470&fullsize=1

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=114474&fullsize=1 - what happened to her lipstick?

As for Claire - she was Blonde when she became pregnant

1.10
Claire: I am 6 weeks late, okay. 6 weeks. That never happens. I'm pregnant.

Okay, I'm not ready to give up the notion. The girl was struck hard by a car, and yet was still able to deliver a baby? No attention to her injuries that she should have sustained from getting hit by the car? So, I'm going to argue that the injuries were caused by another trauma that induced her early labor. Ha!


Well Michael smashed head on into a wall in a car and seemed fine.
The island protected him. I bet the island protected Emily because she "had work to do' -- give birth to Locke, and maybe even play her part in Locke losing his kidney.

Do you mean the color of the lipstick?

There is the hair problem, true.

Locke and Cooper just had to be a match for the kidney transplant, they don't need to be related.

http://www.livingdonorsonline.org/kidney/kidney4.htm

From DEM

Frainey: Emily Annabeth Locke in 10,000 words or less.
Locke: So, she's my mother.
Frainey: I lifted some hairs from her car and matched them with your DNA samples. It's 99% certain. She was institutionalized a few times.
Locke: What for?
Frainey: Nothing criminal or violent. It's a type of schizophrenia. Apparently, if she stays on her meds, she's okay.
Locke: What about my father?
Frainey: Here's the thing. Your mother sought you out, so she's fair game. But this guy... maybe he doesn't even know you exist and I've done this enough times to know this stuff isn't meant to be, even though it may feel that way, but this probably won't have a happy ending. So, do you want it or not?
Locke: I want it.

It's been mentioned in the past that Cooper might not be Locke's father. They had a sample of Locke's DNA.

Nice work!

Well, I've re-watched finally, and Emily's clothes on the gurney are the same as before she was hit. Too bad. So now I'm just miffed that they shot her tiny little waist and flat stomach and then threw out she was nearly 6 months pregnant. Cheap.

We all, seemingly, agree that Emily is wearing the same clothes on the gurney as she is dancing in her room (right down to the necklace), that she is bruised/cut on the gurney, and that she gives birth to a very small, young, miraculous John Locke. The "other girls" say this too. John is rejected.

We know that Emily suffers from "a form" of schizophrenia. We know that Anthony Cooper claimed to be his father and that the kidneys were a match. We know that Emily claimed certain aspects of their meeting was a con.

a) We know from the orientation films that Dharma was working on all sorts of science, including psychology and parapsychology. Do we know when Emily was diagnosed? The admission form to Santa Rosa seems to suggest 1992, but when was she "officially" diagnosed? Is it possible that she has been time-tripping? Is it possible that the D.I. got to her?

b) Long-Con: When Emily told Locke that she had lied for Cooper, that it wasn't immaculate conception, she could have been lying, i.e. double-con/long con,...as a way to have him feel/behave as he does later.

c) Is it possible that Jacob is John's real father? Probably not. I don't recall the D.I. being involved in genetic manipulation. However, since they have incredible power and resources at their command, they could have been running the kidney con on John at the hospital. Cooper could have been another pawn. They may have conned Cooper into conning John for the kidney?

d) Jacob's powers of control and manipulation should be noted...if the Island can choose John before he was born, could it manipulate his genetics?
100%
Oh, and it seems possible that Jacob/the Island is still conning Locke.

LOST might be one very long con.

the only thing that confuses me is emily's mom saying that the guy was TWICE her age.. And Cooper can't be THAT old can he? but the mom said she didn't know Alpert, so he wasn't the father... will another "ageless" character be revealed?

I don't recall the D.I. being involved in genetic manipulation.Oh they definately were into it.

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Juxtapositional_Eugenics

Juxtapositional Eugenics likely refers to eugenics thrugh direct manipulation of genetic material. The fusion and juxtaposition of genes are well established subjects in biology. While traditional Eugenics is based on selective breeding to preserve favored traits, Juxtapositional Eugenics would be building better traits in humans through direct genetic manipulation.

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Institute_for_Genomic_Advancement

In what may be the most forward reaching of The Hanso Foundation's active projects, the Institute seeks nothing less than the eradication disease and birth defects through a deeper understanding of the function and mechanisms of the human genome.

Not to mention the Life Extension Project...

You missed the whole point of her getting hit by the car

It was that someone or something was trying to KILL Locke. When that didnt work..Locke caught all kinds of infections and problems but still beat them---remember---a miracle baby

You dont write his mother getting hit by the car and have no reason behind it

I'm not sure at all if that's true, but it is an interesting thought.

Getting hit by the car was also a convenient way for them to show us the kind of girl she was, and that she was dating an older guy, and then transition immediately to her having the baby.

His repeated survival shows his specialness, and perhaps that he can't die, but I'm not sure at all that it shows us that someone or something is out to kill him (other than Cooper, Ben, Shannon, and Jack).
100%
the only thing that confuses me is emily's mom saying that the guy was TWICE her age.. And Cooper can't be THAT old can he? but the mom said she didn't know Alpert, so he wasn't the father... will another "ageless" character be revealed?
When you say "he's twice your age" I don't think it has to be a mathematically precise calculation. They could have been 15 and 25.

How old is Locke supposed to be, 50? Cooper could pass for 75. If Locke was conceived without sex, they wouldn't have emphasized that Emily was involved in a relationship that her mother strongly disapproved of.

I think they used the phrase "immaculately conceived" intentionally, knowing that most people misunderstand it as referring to the conception of Jesus. It actually refers to the conception of Mary, biologically normal, but according to the "immaculate conception" dogma, conceived free of sin. Carlton Cuse is a catholic, and from what I understand fairly religious, so I think he knows what the phrase actually means.

Emily Locke obviously used it to mean that there was no father. But I think it's possible that the writers are using it to imply something about Locke's specialness. Unlike everyone else on the show, he repeatedly shows a certain innocence, charity, refusal to harm others for his own benefit (the young undercover cop), an affection for everyone he knows that makes it hard to harm them, even when it seems like the right thing to do (his father, Jack when he was making the call), a desire to go to great lengths to help and serve others with no thought of reward (all the things he did for people in the first 1 1/2 seasons, Claire, Charlie, Jack, Sawyer, Boone, etc., to help them physically and spiritually), and an amazing willingness to forgive (at his fathers grave). In other words, it's as if he was born with a certain innate goodness, or freedom from sin, despite who his parents were.
100%
I'd prefer a story line that an immortal or time-traveling Tom impregnated both Claire and Emily.
....there's something your Mother and I need to explain to you about Tom...

....there's something your Mother and I need to explain to you about Tom...:biglaugh:

i think it's strange that the writers drew attention to her waist by tightening it with a belt! If she had been wearing something loose, but still not seeing a bump, it would be different. I watched it a second time and find it hard that she's 5 or 6 months pregnant. I've known girls that didn't even know they were preggers throughout most of their pregnancies and they still looked like they had gained weight in their stomach. There's definitely something fishy going on!

I'm thinking the outfit was to show typical 50's attire. TPTB probably didn't even consider the belt factor... :shrug:

But what I'm saying is that the tight fitting of the dress drew attention to us thinking she didn't look 5 or 6 months pregnant, whether she was or not.

I think they could have found a million other ways to disguise her pregnancy. Instead it's as though they are flaunting the fact that she didn't look pregnant at all, and that makes it more suspicious than anything.

It's just that they give us all these answers with more questions attached! They tell us more of John's story by introducing his mother again and then we see her not looking preggers at all. Sooo, what are we suppose to think.

I'm sure Emily Locke looks exactly the way she's supposed to. There are probably a half a dozen people that would be aware of the set up for the scene and would have pointed out the fact that Emily is supposed to be 6 months pregnant. From Casting, Wardrobe, Script Supervisor, 1st AD to the Director. I'm pretty sure the belt is not an oversight, Emily is supposed to look slim and not pregnant. Something else for us to speculate about.

Pregnancies don't always 'show', there's no reason she couldn't have been pregnant before the car accident.

Esp if you are trying to hide it from mom. A friend of mine in HS had a sister and we did know she was preg until she had the baby.

sorry....but who is this "Tom" of whom you speak (in relation to Claire...Emily)
don't batter me for not knowing, please.

sorry....but who is this "Tom" of whom you speak (in relation to Claire...Emily)
don't batter me for not knowing, please.I'm assuming they meant "gay" Tom of The Others, but of course there was also Claire's babydaddy Tom & Kate's old boyfriend Tom as well....

Esp if you are trying to hide it from mom. A friend of mine in HS had a sister and we did know she was preg until she had the baby.

I had a friend who hid it too. But, as time wore on her dresses got looser and looser. It was the scene where Emily spun around and the dress positively clung to her. As though the writers wanted us to really notice later that her body showed not a sign of being pregnant. They could've made it more ambiguous if they had wanted to without flaunting her slimness. They whole opening scene was on her torso. They want us to notice. Why?