Ok-2003/4 or so Richard Alpert goes back to young Locke and tries to see if he will remember the knife. When he does, Richard gets pissed because he knows that when Locke arrives on the island, he will have some pre-cogs in the back of his mind from what he does remember instinctively. Hence the events that crippled the others , such as the swan exploding and the flame being crippled will in fact happen at Locke's hands, since he is "special" and :amenable to coercion". This means that what has been foretold by Jacob? to Ben, Richard etc. is really going to go down and they really can't prevent it and they have to play the game with Widmore now? So is Richard pissed because he knows Locke might be able to learn how to do the time trick himself? Or does he now know that the island under assault and all of this history will indeed happen as foretold and that they're gonna have to deal with all that then? Also, just thought of this: now Richard knows that the whole Locke supplanting Ben conflict is also going to go down, also...(<>..<>)

I bet the knife was Locke's. I think many of the other Losties are "special" Did all those objects belong to "special" Losties?

I dunno but that scene was directly lifted from how Buddhist monks search for the reincarnated spirit of the Dhalai Lama inside a child.
So I guess Alpert was looking for the reincarnated spirit of someone inside Locke... I don't think it has anything to do with time jumping as others have suggested.

Agreed, he was trying to speak to some old soul within Locke...fits in nicely with the Dharma/Buddha type stuff.

I think the knife was his. That is why they kept track of Locke.

I dunno but that scene was directly lifted from how Buddhist monks search for the reincarnated spirit of the Dhalai Lama inside a child.
So I guess Alpert was looking for the reincarnated spirit of someone inside Locke... I don't think it has anything to do with time jumping as others have suggested.
Damon and Carlton once referred to Richard as the panchon lama (sorry, don't know the spelling) - I believe it was after TMBTC aired. I guess he thought he was going to choose Locke as the Dhalai Lama, but he ended up going with Ben instead.

I dunno but that scene was directly lifted from how Buddhist monks search for the reincarnated spirit of the Dhalai Lama inside a child.
So I guess Alpert was looking for the reincarnated spirit of someone inside Locke... I don't think it has anything to do with time jumping as others have suggested.


Thats exactly what I thought. Locke may be special but he was not the specific special person Alpert was looking for. So if the knife really was Lockes who WAS he, and Who was Alpert looking for? Jacob Maybe? This brings up a lot of questions.:confused:

Locke just wasn't ready yet, as Alpert said... But apparently, NOW he is. Go Locke, move the island!!

So how does one move an island?

Damon and Carlton once referred to Richard as the panchon lama (sorry, don't know the spelling) - I believe it was after TMBTC aired. I guess he thought he was going to choose Locke as the Dhalai Lama, but he ended up going with Ben instead.

True. Good point. But I think Richard might have been lying. Clearly they kept tabs on Locke for years. So maybe Ben was picked for awhile, but they knew that Locke would have to take over.

OR, what if Abaddon and Richard are not related? Richard decided not to choose Locke, but Abaddon still sent him on his way toward the island.... Richard and Abaddon working against each other? This seems possible.

The impression I got from Richard's test is that they were trying to find WHO Jacob is. Some of those objects might have belonged to him. SO he was expecting young Locke to recognize the right ones.
And if the subject felt that the right objects belonged to him ALREADY, it meant that he IS Jacob.

So the question is: Is John Jacob? And if so, how is that possible?


Also, Locke might have been having visions from a previous life, since he drew a picture of Smokie

That's exactly what I thought when I was watching. Richard time skip to see if Locke really was special and if all the events in the future would happen.

I don't think Locke is Jacob because he did fail the test, I do think thats who Alpert was looking for. So does this mean that Jacob was on flight 815? Did Alpert finally find "him"? Is one of the losties really Jacob but they just don't know it yet??????

OR, what if Abaddon and Richard are not related? Richard decided not to choose Locke, but Abaddon still sent him on his way toward the island.... Richard and Abaddon working against each other? This seems possible.
Oh yeah, I think they are on opposing sides. I mentioned this in a thread with Abbadon and John's names in the titles. If Abbadon was with Ben/Richard/Jacob/the island, I would think he'd be able to find it in the future.

Was Richard lying though? I have no idea!!

Thats exactly what I thought. Locke may be special but he was not the specific special person Alpert was looking for. So if the knife really was Lockes who WAS he, and Who was Alpert looking for? Jacob Maybe? This brings up a lot of questions.:confused:
I do think the knife was Locke's....he needed the knives for the Walkabout...and on the Island he killed the boar with a kinife.

Maybe each of the objects belonged to a "special" Lostie or a Lostie who is an "old soul" reincarnated...
I think each of the items belonged to a Lostie or someone who Alpert and the Other Island Keepers kept track of...but they were not sure which was the "Chosen" one for which particular destiny.

So...iIf those items do belong to the "special" Losties...possible "chosen ones"....
Knife = Locke ( he had the knives from his Walkabout and used them to kill the boars)
Comic book = Walt or Hurley
Baseball mitt = Aaron or Jack
Compass = Sayid?
Book Of Law = ?

Not sure what was in the bottle....sand,herbs,heroin?
If heroin then gotta be Charlie!

I believe he kept the knife because he was a little boy and a knife was "KEWL"! He was asserting his will over his gift. Just as in high school when the teacher explained to him he was meant to be surrounded but test tubes and science, Locke told the teacher he was wanted to be inerested in cars and sports - things he thought normal boys would be interested in enjoying. He asserted his will over that opportunity as well.

Great idea breaking down the list of items Addictedfan. So if Alpert was looking for a reincarnated Jacob, a chosen one (like star wars) I wonder wich item was his? The books of Laws maybe?

One other way to look at the the choice of objects....did Locke choose his destiny when he chose the knife?

Anyone know what was in that glass bottle?

I got the impression that the tube was a bottle of sand, possibly from the island. This was the first thing Locke chose that belonged to him, so I connected that in meaning that the island belonged to him. At the point of choosing the bottle, Richard seemed pleased. It wasn't until he picked up the knife that Richard's attitude changed. Maybe to Richard, the knife was representative of a violence that would not be a part of who he was looking for.

That's exactly what I thought when I was watching. Richard time skip to see if Locke really was special and if all the events in the future would happen.

Plus, I think we have to keep in mind that everything Locke did after arriving on the Island in effect screwed the Others and undermined Ben's position as their leader. He blew up the swan which crippled their cloaking, then he blew up the Flame which cut off their comms and supplies, thus turning them into the "rag-tag guerilla army" that's running out of camping gear and have their access to fresh water blocked, which is what he wrote down in his journal...(<>..<>)

One other way to look at the the choice of objects....did Locke choose his destiny when he chose the knife?

Anyone know what was in that glass bottle?


No, but someone posted in another thread that in an episode, I don't know which one that there is a childhood pic of Kate with a baseball glove. Anyone remember this pic? If it's there this could explain the baseball glove.

Knife = Locke ( he had the knives from his Walkabout and used them to kill the boars)
Comic book = Walt or Hurley
Baseball mitt = Aaron or Jack
Compass = Sayid?
Book Of Law = ?

Imo, all but one of the items were "dummies", like photo line-ups. There was only one "correct" choice, and in Alpert's view, Locke picked the wrong one.
Which tells me Alpert might not be as all-knowing as some say he is.

But I enjoyed trying to match the items to the characters. I thought it was the Book of Kells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Kells), could be wrong, waiting on the screencap.

I think Locke is the one they were searching for, he just hasn't been ready to take the helm until now. Back then he was too tied up in his own nonsense of trying to prove to himself that he wasn't a nobody... now he's learned to let go of all the societal-imposed BS

I believe he kept the knife because he was a little boy and a knife was "KEWL"! He was asserting his will over his gift. Just as in high school when the teacher explained to him he was meant to be surrounded but test tubes and science, Locke told the teacher he was wanted to be inerested in cars and sports - things he thought normal boys would be interested in enjoying. He asserted his will over that opportunity as well.

Bingo. Locke's first inclination was to go for the Alpert preferred "Book of Laws," but his impish side kicked in and he went for the knife. Locke clearly had some issues to work through, although the presence of Abaddon would suggest he might not be the chosen one either. Neither was Walt (who I'm sure they performed this kind of test on as well). Does that leave Aaron? I guess Aaron has to grow up a bit off-Island before he can claim his throne.

We don't know that by picking the knife John was predicting anything. Alpert might not have been going back in time and the point of the 'test' might not have been for Locke to predict anything but to actually pick the right things, which seemed to be the book rather than the knife. Halpert's disappointment might have been because Locke got it wrong, not because he foretold anything.

You could be right though.

I got the impression that the tube was a bottle of sand, possibly from the island. This was the first thing Locke chose that belonged to him, so I connected that in meaning that the island belonged to him. At the point of choosing the bottle, Richard seemed pleased. It wasn't until he picked up the knife that Richard's attitude changed. Maybe to Richard, the knife was representative of a violence that would not be a part of who he was looking for.

I like that idea as well!!! Maybe even better than what I was intially thinking!

Good call that the glass tube was holding sand from the island. I think that is the answer and that is what Locke should have picked. it would make sense that that one is the least likely a kid would want, actually. Why would you pick sand if you could pick a knife or comic book or compass, etc?

No, but someone posted in another thread that in an episode, I don't know which one that there is a childhood pic of Kate with a baseball glove. Anyone remember this pic? If it's there this could explain the baseball glove.

Abby, I do remember a pic of a teenage Kate that her stepdad showed Sayid in one of the Sayid centric eps from S1, I think. I can't remember if she had a baseball glove on though.

Bingo. Locke's first inclination was to go for the Alpert preferred "Book of Laws," but his impish side kicked in and he went for the knife. Locke clearly had some issues to work through, although the presence of Abaddon would suggest he might not be the chosen one either. Neither was Walt (who I'm sure they performed this kind of test on as well). Does that leave Aaron? I guess Aaron has to grow up a bit off-Island before he can claim his throne.


If that's the case, I hope that they wait *several* years to perform the test on Aaron. I have a 3 year old and she's fairly convinced that every material object in the world belongs to her.

I thought the glass vial was sand.

So if Locke chose the science side would he no longer be the man of faith? He would be the man of science? Richard seemed so disappointed in the boy Locke. I wonder which he wished him to pick --- the comic with floating island or Book of Laws?

I think Locke's choosing the knife meant that he will actually be Richard's replacement instead of Ben's replacement on the Island. Sort of like the sword in the stone idea is what I'm thinking. I think when Richard was younger, he chose the knife out of all the objects and that's how he came to be the "king maker". I think, in time, Aaron will be Ben's replacement.

I like your parallel with him choosing the science, turning him from a man of faith. That choice may have made a very different John from the one we know.

I just get the strong feeling that Richard was looking for one specific person, and it would have only been the right person according to what object he picked. I didn't get the impression that there was more than one right answer, which would determine a side. He stressed to John "Which item already belongs to you?" He didn't say which one do you want, ie. which side do you choose. This would indicate to me that it should be something that he owned in a previous carnation. I'm convinced that if he would have stopped after the bottle of sand, Richard would have taken him off to the school for the "special." Maybe the sand/island did belong to him, but he had vengence in his heart (ala Sawyer) and was not yet ready for the responsibility of having the island again.

I do think the knife was Locke's....he needed the knives for the Walkabout...and on the Island he killed the boar with a kinife.

Maybe each of the objects belonged to a "special" Lostie or a Lostie who is an "old soul" reincarnated...
I think each of the items belonged to a Lostie or someone who Alpert and the Other Island Keepers kept track of...but they were not sure which was the "Chosen" one for which particular destiny.

So...iIf those items do belong to the "special" Losties...possible "chosen ones"....
Knife = Locke ( he had the knives from his Walkabout and used them to kill the boars)
Comic book = Walt or Hurley
Baseball mitt = Aaron or Jack
Compass = Sayid?
Book Of Law = ?

Not sure what was in the bottle....sand,herbs,heroin?
If heroin then gotta be Charlie!

Until your post, addicted, I thought the Locke's choosing the knife was him choosing Richard's "talisman" but what you've written makes much more sense. Doesn't explain why Richard seemed so disappointed though, does it??
I thought the vial was sand of some kind.
Book of Law (I thought it said Leaves, btw :redface: ) = that might exempllify someone who believes in justice as well as mercy...Jin?

I don't think Locke is Jacob because he did fail the test, I do think thats who Alpert was looking for. So does this mean that Jacob was on flight 815? Did Alpert finally find "him"? Is one of the losties really Jacob but they just don't know it yet??????

Failed the test only in the sense that his "little boy-ness" chose the knife (because knives are cool) even though it hadn't been his. As Richard said, he wasn't yet ready.

It's simple... Locke is not the chosen one. If he was he would have picked the right item. He's just the one the island needs at the moment.

Don't forget we've still got two season's to go!

Alpert obviously was following John since birth....so was he following a prophecy or had the "Island Keepers" as I like to call Alpert,Mrs.Hawkings and others tampered with the pregancy/conception?
Goodspeed seemed to be following Ben since birth....like Alpert following John?

Maybe Jacob like the Biblical Jacob had mutiple children....via artificial insemination or "soul transfer". All of his "children" were followed but they did not know which one was really the Chosen One...

Ben,Locke,Aaron....maybe Walt too!
100%
Until your post, addicted, I thought the Locke's choosing the knife was him choosing Richard's "talisman" but what you've written makes much more sense. Doesn't explain why Richard seemed so disappointed though, does it??
I thought the vial was sand of some kind.
Book of Law (I thought it said Leaves, btw :redface: ) = that might exempllify someone who believes in justice as well as mercy...Jin?

I'm not sure why he was disappointed...my brain is in "Lost overdrive" right now! LOL!
But Locke obviously had a connection with Smokey and Richard saw the pic himself so he must know Locke is destined to end up on the Island.

I tried googling "Book Of Laws" but not coming up with much so far..

The Book of Laws could be legal "laws" but also could be "laws" of religion or philosphy....maybe even science.

Alpert seemed pretty pissed off that Locke didn't "choose wisely." Maybe Alpert can't move on until the legit successor is found? There has to be a connection to who Alpert is looking for and the fact Jacob is disembodied, which is interesting since Jacob appears anti-technology, but Locke was supposed to be the "Man of Science."

The BOOK OF LAW is not necessarily Judaical law. It could mean like the LAW of nature,about equity, morals, justice etc.. I think the Wiccans also have a book like this. I'll go look it up.

Failed the test only in the sense that his "little boy-ness" chose the knife (because knives are cool) even though it hadn't been his. As Richard said, he wasn't yet ready.

I don't know about that, remember in the 1st season how handy Locke was with knives. He got a whole case of knives on the plane because he checked them on the plane. He was also teaching Walt how th use them. I know he may have trained with knives to do his walkabout but he does seem to have a special skill with them. I think the knives were his, part of his personality that carried through the reincarnation, being a hunter. I get what your saying, little boys do think knives are cool, but he picked a bottle of sand first, choosing that before a baseball glove and a comic book, those are some pretty cool items for a boy too, especially for a boy that wanted to fit in.

The BOOK OF LAW is not necessarily Judaical law. It could mean like the LAW of nature,about equity, morals, justice etc.. I think the Wiccans also have a book like this. I'll go look it up.

Wasn't it the "Book of Law(S)"? Coupled with the underpinnings of Locke becoming a lab geek, and my guess is what's being talked about is laws of science.

Abaddon changed Locke's destiny by the suggestion that he go on a walk-about...a journey of self-discovery. If we are dealing with cycles/circles John 'remembers' his future and selects the knife. If the 'test' was indeed to find a reincarnated person, and the knife wasn't the 'correct' object to select, John is in need of some serious course-correcting...

Interesting that when Locke met Des in the hatch, Des asked him if he was the one. Hmmm, perhaps he is?!

Alpert seemed pretty pissed off that Locke didn't "choose wisely." Maybe Alpert can't move on until the legit successor is found? There has to be a connection to who Alpert is looking for and the fact Jacob is disembodied, which is interesting since Jacob appears anti-technology, but Locke was supposed to be the "Man of Science."

I wonder if Alpert was "molding" Locke...."guiding" him to his ultimate destiny. I suppose Locke had to feel like he was desparate to belong and desparate enough to find his purpose in life.....to be able to fulfill his true destiny and save the Island.So maybe Richard's "rejecting" him was to make him feel rejected..to push him in a certain direction until the "Time Was Right"? Kinda like little Ben was told he to be patient by his mother....and Alpert seemed to guide a young Ben as well.

I was most interested in the order of little Lockes picks. 1st the bottle of sand, which represents the island. 2nd the compass, represents direction. 3rd a knive, Maybe it represents the direction the island is headed. war? violence?

~~Im Puzzled

I don't know about that, remember in the 1st season how handy Locke was with knives. He got a whole case of knives on the plane because he checked them on the plane. He was also teaching Walt how th use them. I know he may have trained with knives to do his walkabout but he does seem to have a special skill with them. I think the knives were his, part of his personality that carried through the reincarnation, being a hunter. I get what your saying, little boys do think knives are cool, but he picked a bottle of sand first, choosing that before a baseball glove and a comic book, those are some pretty cool items for a boy too, especially for a boy that wanted to fit in.
Exactly...Locke and the knives were a huge reason that he was accepted by the other Losties at first...bec/ he provided them with food. The knives were a part of him feeling that he had found his purpose/his destiny.

Thats exactly what I thought. Locke may be special but he was not the specific special person Alpert was looking for. So if the knife really was Lockes who WAS he, and Who was Alpert looking for? Jacob Maybe? This brings up a lot of questions.:confused:


It reminds me of Ender's Game. They're looking for special people, but they're not clear on which one specifically they need. So, they keep tabs on test them/guide them until they are either what they need to be or aren't.

A couple things...

Richard asked him, "which of these things belongs to you?" This could be interpreted as a singular or a plural. I tend to think it was the latter, thus I think Locke chose the vial, the compass and the knife.

Book of Laws could equal Hammurabi's code, which was the very 1st recorded set of laws.

The vial does look like sand (but it seems like the grains are a little larger than normal sand)

Finally, I definitely think Richard is searching for the reincarnated souls of the original inhabitants of the Island. Locke is one the special ones, but not THE one.

I believe he kept the knife because he was a little boy and a knife was "KEWL"! He was asserting his will over his gift. Just as in high school when the teacher explained to him he was meant to be surrounded but test tubes and science, Locke told the teacher he was wanted to be inerested in cars and sports - things he thought normal boys would be interested in enjoying. He asserted his will over that opportunity as well. Good analysis. I saw those as direct parallels as well.

Bingo. Locke's first inclination was to go for the Alpert preferred "Book of Laws," but his impish side kicked in and he went for the knife. I agree that's why the camera focused on the book.

Ok, I just rewatched this scene and have a new idea to toss out for your thoughts.

What if the battle over the island that we see between Widmore and Ben (which I have a feeling is a secondary battle) has actually been a battle over the island through not just generations, but through many incarnations of the same people. Perhaps there are two people who would actually claim that bottle of sand/ the island. But, by choosing the knife instead of something else (maybe the book of laws) Locke showed Richard, that he was not the side of the battle that Richard was looking for. So in effect, Richard did find a special one. One of two, but not the one who is on the side that Richard deems to be the 'good' side. Not to say that Locke is on the bad side, perhaps Richard misinterpreted Locke's choice. But I am liking the idea that there would be more than one child to claim the sand as his own.

Of course it would mean that Walt was Jacob, not Lock
100%
If you believe that there is a living spirit of Jacob in one of the Losties. It would had to be walt. He was clearly the most gifted child we have seen on Lost.

BTW I believe Richard was seeking someone special and waiting for a sign. The fact that baby Locke survived being hit by a car and being born as a 6mo. preemie in the fifties certainly put him in the running.

Surviving being pushed out a window may have renewed Richard's faith in him.

BTW I believe Richard was seeking someone special and waiting for a sign. The fact that baby Locke survived being hit by a car and being born as a 6mo. preemie in the fifties certainly put him in the running.

Surviving being pushed out a window may have renewed Richard's faith in him.

That would make sense! I wonder though if Emily's mother was involved at all?
Also, young Emily did say she was in love with "him" and Mom said he was twice her age...I guess Anthony Cooper as that is who Emily tells Locke is his father. So Cooper might have been in on this too...I've always doubted he was Locke's real father.

Do you think the sand was actually the ash that lies around the cabin?

Also, didn't you get the impression that Richard represented good and Abbadon represented bad? Dark and Light are always going to be what governs lost, yin and yang, science and faith. Adam and Eve had light stones and dark stones. Locke and Walt played backgammon as Locke explained a light side and a dark side.

One more, doesn't anyone think Jacob is Horace Godspeed? It would make sense why Ben was drawn to him. Horace always was involved in Ben's life as a positive role model. Ben always listened to him. It was his cabin, right?

A couple things... Richard asked him, "which of these things belongs to you?" This could be interpreted as a singular or a plural. I tend to think it was the latter, thus I think Locke chose the vial, the compass and the knife.

Agreed. Locke was off to a great start selecting first the jar of sandy, grainy material; and we can tell from the test results that a plural selection was fine, with at least one taboo - for Locke, the knife.

The vial does look like sand (but it seems like the grains are a little larger than normal sand)

Bingo! As I watched the episode, as the test started I was dead certain that Locke would first select the jar of sand. Right or wrong, I was convinced that the sand was NOT, in fact sand, but more a slightly more heavily grained aggregate of some sort - like the ground matter surrounding [enclosing] Jacob in his cabin.

My gut reaction was that this would link Locke back to the Island with a fuller understanding of Jacob's identity, the relationship with the island essence and history and his own [Locke's] future role as protagonist.

One more observation: we know that the father of Emily's child is twice her own age ... suggesting a very acute reason for Alpert's intense interest in that particular child ... unnamed in his post so as not to spoil anything.

Do you think the sand was actually the ash that lies around the cabin?

Also, didn't you get the impression that Richard represented good and Abbadon represented bad? Dark and Light are always going to be what governs lost, yin and yang, science and faith. Adam and Eve had light stones and dark stones. Locke and Walt played backgammon as Locke explained a light side and a dark side.

One more, doesn't anyone think Jacob is Horace Godspeed? It would make sense why Ben was drawn to him. Horace always was involved in Ben's life as a positive role model. Ben always listened to him. It was his cabin, right?

I'm still not sure what was in the bottle...the powder/ash around Jacob's cabin was finer if my memory serves me but I agree,it doesn't quite look like sand.

The BOOK OF LAW is not necessarily Judaical law. It could mean like the LAW of nature,about equity, morals, justice etc.. I think the Wiccans also have a book like this. I'll go look it up.

There is a Dharma Book of Law

anyway here is the crux of the matter

"They spoke to him and to his parents and performed a test. The monks had brought several items with them from their home monastery. Some of the items had belonged to the thirteenth Dalai Lama and others were imitations or just common objects. Lhamo correctly identified the objects that had belonged to the thirteenth Dalai Lama. "

Agreed, he was trying to speak to some old soul within Locke...fits in nicely with the Dharma/Buddha type stuff.
Richard wasn't Dharma tho, he was a Hostile.

Anybody think that perhaps Richard misinterpretted the results of the test, that the problem was with him and not young Locke?

There is a Dharma Book of Law

anyway here is the crux of the matter

"They spoke to him and to his parents and performed a test. The monks had brought several items with them from their home monastery. Some of the items had belonged to the thirteenth Dalai Lama and others were imitations or just common objects. Lhamo correctly identified the objects that had belonged to the thirteenth Dalai Lama. "

Wow!! Thanks John!!!
I also wondered if there is an "order of Chosen Ones or Special Ones" and the choice of the knife was not the next in line which meant Richard had to continue his search....

Ben was picked before Locke...now it looks like its Locke's turn. Wonder who was before Ben? Think it could have been Charles Widmore and that is why he told Ben that he took what was his...meaning his place as "the Island's Chosen one"?

Anybody think that perhaps Richard misinterpretted the results of the test, that the problem was with him and not young Locke?

I did think about that, woland, and think the idea has merit especially in light of the fact that he was still trying to recruit him when he was in his teens.

Ok, after thinking about this way too much, I'm going to come back at it again.

1) Richard hops back to visit young Locke, who for all we know could have been a test tuber straight out of Mittelos Bioscience (to re-clone Jacob?), and implanted in Emily, since she claims immaculate conception. He basically gives him a buddhist personality test, and of course Locke grabs the only weapon out of the group. Richard gets mad because he knows Locke just switched up and went against his natural instinct to grab one of the non-weapons, hence starting off Locke's long road of rebellion which we saw during the whole episode. Maybe if Locke had chosen a different item, this would have changed his future as well as the Other's future, but once he went with the knife it was kinda cast in stone.

And like I said, the first thing Locke did to the Others is to start totally screwing up everything they had going on, and ended up bringing Widmore down on them through his actions, and getting this whole conflict started by exposing the location of the island via the Swan, and crippling the others ability to defend by taking out the Flame, so now in effect, as is usual with Locke, he is in a bad situation of his own making. I always figured Locke as too trusting, which in turn always leads to situations where somebody gets screwed over, himself included. It definitely seemed to me that Richard's attitude when he left was like, well Ok, here we go then...

But here's a bet-after all the stuff that happened to Locke in the world, and his re-juvenation on the island, I'm sure that if nothing else these things happened to him so that when he did get to the island he would have no reason to want to leave and would be fiendishly loyal to the end for this place that gave him redemption with a second chance as a whole person with working legs. So, hell yeah he'll fight you over the island. Meet Col. Locke, reporting for island duty...(<>..<>)

Richard looked so distressed when Locke picked the knife that I wondered if it might have belonged to someone who tried to take the island away from Jacob, that generation's Abbadon/Keamy, if you will. That would freak out Richard, because it would mean that a dangerous foe had been reincarnated. However, I think the scene of high school Locke tells us that he knew he'd owned the Book of Laws but picked up the knife in the same way that he rejected the science camp, because he wants to think of himself as an alpha male instead of the nerdy geek he actually is. But he's a nerdy geek with a huge destiny.

Cardie

It seems like Locke has been tested three times. First by Richard, and in selecting the "wrong" items he failed. The second time by the science teacher and by choosing not to go to the camp he failed again. The third time was by Christian when he was asked what he wanted to ask (or what he needed to know, or something like that), and instead of the million questions he could have asked (who is Jacob, what is the smoke monster) he chose correctly and asked, "How can I save the island?" You can see the satisfaction on Christian's face. It seems like Mr. Locke has found his destiny at last.

Damon and Carlton once referred to Richard as the panchon lama (sorry, don't know the spelling) - I believe it was after TMBTC aired. I guess he thought he was going to choose Locke as the Dhalai Lama, but he ended up going with Ben instead.

That's what I'm going with - Richard really did look disappointed when he left - I think he wanted Locke to pick the sand vile - sand from the Island - the Island that rightfully Locke should guard and defend. I do think that was Locke's knife (maybe), but the TRUE John Locke cares more for the Island than he does for his knife.

If that makes any sense?!:undecide:

It seems like Locke has been tested three times. First by Richard, and in selecting the "wrong" items he failed. The second time by the science teacher and by choosing not to go to the camp he failed again. The third time was by Christian when he was asked what he wanted to ask (or what he needed to know, or something like that), and instead of the million questions he could have asked (who is Jacob, what is the smoke monster) he chose correctly and asked, "How can I save the island?" You can see the satisfaction on Christian's face. It seems like Mr. Locke has found his destiny at last.

I didn't even think of that. I think your right, there did seem to be 3 tests given. I still think the knife was Lockes, maybe Richard figured this out later and continued to test him. This is having a real Star Wars feel to it. Any Fan of those movies can see the similarities between young Aniken and Young Locke. Lockes ability as a baby to fight off viruses and be the youngest child ever born to that hospital to survive must have peeked Alpert's curiousity, like a Jedi Master intrested in an apprentice. Also We never did find out who Anniken's Father was, If I remember right his Mother also said something like he was an immaculate conception. Anyway, getting back to your post, yes it seems like Locke has finally passed his tests, 3 times a charm!:biggrin:

I think the idea that he let his self will get in the way in the first two tests is exactly right. He wanted the "cool" toy, he wanted to run with the "cool" crowd. The last test he chose the island first. It seems like this man of faith has always been looking for something outside himself to put his faith in (father, Helen, the "family" of drug dealers, etc.) so maybe it wasn't such a selfless choice, but maybe he is learning to put his wants aside in favor of a higher cause. I just hope for his sake it is a worthy one. It seems like he has given up his need for approval at any rate because his choice isn't going to be popular with his fellow losties.

I keep thinking of the title of the epi "man of science, man of faith" at the time we all assumed the title refered to 2 people Jack-man of science, Locke-man of faith. But after this last epi I wonder if that title was just referring to Locke.

I think the knife was his. That is why they kept track of Locke.

I understood that because Locke chose the knife he wasn't ready- maybe by choosing it he showed he had aggressive feelings and was not yet "good" enough.

It does seem like he has had the opportunity to choose between science and faith a number of times, as has Jack if you think about it. One is choosing faith, one is choosing science. It will be interesting to see who comes out on top.

It does seem like he has had the opportunity to choose between science and faith a number of times, as has Jack if you think about it. One is choosing faith, one is choosing science. It will be interesting to see who comes out on top.
I agree Mrs.H ...Jack has been "tested" as well. The Island needs both Jack and Locke but perhaps...Jack's destiny is to be the Man of Faith and Locke's is to be the Man of Science.

Although...I'm gonna say they both need science and faith.

Anyone heard a definitive answer on what was in the bottle?

The more I thought about that scene,the more I think any of those items could have been picked but the order in which he picked was what was important. And like another poster said,he picked 3 items...the bottle,the compass and then the knife.
Also,did you all notice his "island motif" shirt he was wearing as he played backgammon?!

He was destined to be on the Island..."preparing" his whole life!
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I think Locke could have chosen any of those items as his. I can see how each apply to him and his destiny except the baseball glove.

Maybe Locke didn't make the wrong choice per se, Richard was just hoping he'd choose otherwise and was disappointed. He didn't give up on him, after all.

It's seems pretty clear to me that the Book of Laws is the only significant object that Richard has. Watch Richard watch John when he first pulls the items out. He seems very specific about the order and placement of the items on the table.

The book is the only real important item on the table the others are there to compliment it or distract from it.

I suspect Richard is looking for a reincarnation of someone who has written their own Book of Laws.


The glass vial just looks like beach sand.

OK, let's try this:

Alpert was looking for someone. So was Abbadon.
So maybe Alpert found the wrong person, since Locke chose the wrong thing. But maybe this is who Abbadon WAS searching for, that's why he came to see him.

why would richard have to time travel to see locke, when he was a kid? we all know richard hasnt aged in years.. he may have gone to see john, way back when john was a kid.. i never once thought time travel when watching the show. i just thought about how richard holds his age so well. lol.

OK, let's try this:

Alpert was looking for someone. So was Abbadon.
So maybe Alpert found the wrong person, since Locke chose the wrong thing. But maybe this is who Abbadon WAS searching for, that's why he came to see him.

Okay, I like that idea but Alpert did keep up with John and used the Guidance counselor guy to try to recruit Locke for the Mittlelos Science camp. But maybe that is when he gave up on Locke and recruited Ben instead,

Maybe Abbadon asks Hurley in Santa Rosa if they are all dead because he wants to know if "his man",Locke is still alive? If he was right in choosing Locke!

That begs the question then is Locke ultimately to end up on the side of good or evil?
Is that why the Island needs Jack....Jack is on the side of good?

I got the impression that Alpert was looking for Locke to choose the "Book of Laws." We're shown through the episode that Locke has a tendency to do things that he isn't meant to. Just look at the high school scene. Apparently Locke could have/should have become a scientist but instead he chose a path to make himself fit in instead. Alpert apparently has been trying to show Locke the way.

Then Abbadon comes along and attempts to bring Locke to "the Dark side" (if you believe Widmore is a bad guy). Abbadon obviously gets Locke to the Island and the whole "You'll owe me one" is, IMO, gonna be very important.

Okay, I like that idea but Alpert did keep up with John and used the Guidance counselor guy to try to recruit Locke for the Mittlelos Science camp. But maybe that is when he gave up on Locke and recruited Ben instead,
In Entertainment Weekly's review of last night's episode, the writer points out that Ben is 5 years younger than Locke, so Ben would have been showing up on the island (age 11) right about when Locke was rejecting the science camp offer (age 16). Sounds compelling, no?

I did think about that, woland, and think the idea has merit especially in light of the fact that he was still trying to recruit him when he was in his teens.

I agree with you Woland and Guinevere. We are all assuming that Locke's choosing of the knife was the wrong choice rather than Alpert not understanding how the knife was actually the correct choice. And we may need to broaden our idea about "choice" since when I saw that scene, I wondered if ALL of the items will end up being the "right" choice, that all of the items already belonged to Little Locke.

Alpert may have tried to look down through time to see the mystery of how something would work out, but he was been able to understand how a knife could possibly fit, so he thought Little Locke was not the one he'd been looking for.

In Entertainment Weekly's review of last night's episode, the writer points out that Ben is 5 years younger than Locke, so Ben would have been showing up on the island (age 11) right about when Locke was rejecting the science camp offer (age 16). Sounds compelling, no?
Thanks for the age info, jennylee! That also means Ben was born around the same time that Alpert "tested" little Locke. The little Locke looked to be about 5 years old.
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I got the impression that Alpert was looking for Locke to choose the "Book of Laws." We're shown through the episode that Locke has a tendency to do things that he isn't meant to. Just look at the high school scene. Apparently Locke could have/should have become a scientist but instead he chose a path to make himself fit in instead. Alpert apparently has been trying to show Locke the way.

Then Abbadon comes along and attempts to bring Locke to "the Dark side" (if you believe Widmore is a bad guy). Abbadon obviously gets Locke to the Island and the whole "You'll owe me one" is, IMO, gonna be very important.

Is the Book Of Laws about legal laws,religious laws,societal laws? I still haven't found the book that was shown, maybe it wasn't a real book. Hmmmmm.....
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Weird! It's still my Title listed on the thread still but has UAC as the original poster???

I feel honored as I love UAC's theories but I was so excited to have a thread of mine with over 50 posts and now I can't claim it as just mine anymore, :frown:

The impression I got from Richard's test is that they were trying to find WHO Jacob is. Some of those objects might have belonged to him. SO he was expecting young Locke to recognize the right ones.
And if the subject felt that the right objects belonged to him ALREADY, it meant that he IS Jacob.

So the question is: Is John Jacob? And if so, how is that possible?


Also, Locke might have been having visions from a previous life, since he drew a picture of Smokie

I don't know if Richard was looking for Jacob, but for the one who could talk to Jacob and help the "island."

I think Alpert already knew Locke was special, but because of who John is...he's always been fighting against who he really is ... as exemplified by his Don't tell me what I can't do speech to his science teacher et al. Fighting who he really is- also kept him from choosing the Book of Laws...which had been his once in a previous incarnation. I think Alpert was angry at John for choosing the knife... but it was so John to choose the knife. Who was he before? I don't think it's Jacob because of how Ben passed the torch to John.

Ben was also someone else before he was Ben...What did one Whisper say to the Other? "Do you know who he (Ben) is?"

Reincarnation is the idea... remember also the painting in Ben's house and the Woman with the Hamster... lol. Maybe we were right and Ben IS a Hamster... Widmore says to Ben, I know What you are...

I am stuck on this topic! LOL!

I wonder if The Book Of Laws is a reference to the Bible, esp. the Old Testament.
The first 5 books of the Bible are called "Torah" Or "Law". The 10 Commandments( Moses) were considered as Laws of how to live one's life.

The story of the 10 commandments is found in the book of Deuteronomy.


From wiki:
Deuteronomy (Greek deuteronomion,Δευτερο-νομιον "second law") is the fifth book of the Hebrew Bible and of the Old Testament. In form it is a set of three sermons delivered by Moses reviewing the previous forty years of wandering in the wilderness; its central element is a detailed law-code by which the Children of Israel are to live in the Promised Land.

The test is designed to see if the subject is drawn to the spiritual essence or the material. The comic book, knife, baseball mitt ae all the types of items litle boys will seek to covet, the "chosen one" will not. Whne the Buddhists do it there is gold on the tble instead of a basebll mitt.

I bet the knife was Locke's. I think many of the other Losties are "special" Did all those objects belong to "special" Losties?

but locke chose the knife and it seemed to be the wrong answer? so what was he supposed to choose? I would guess the book of laws, since he's to be the new 'law-giver', whatever.

I read in Jensen's article on EW that each item could be related to a major Lostie...I don't buy that, just sayin' it's been discussed alot already.

I dont know why but in the moment that I saw "Book of Laws".. I thought in Mr. Eko.

alinebrz: I thought the picture Locke drew on the wall was a picture of Eko being killed by the Smoke Monster.

I think what I said a few posts back is still relevant that John ignored the book and went for the knife because of his situation...where he was living. What was striking was Alpert's angry departure.. he wasn't disappointed, he was pissed.

Thanks for the age info, jennylee! That also means Ben was born around the same time that Alpert "tested" little Locke. The little Locke looked to be about 5 years old.
The end credits list the kid actors as "Locke 5yrs old", then "Locke 15yrs old"


Is the Book Of Laws about legal laws,religious laws,societal laws? I still haven't found the book that was shown, maybe it wasn't a real book. Hmmmmm.....It's been ID'd as the book of Leviticus in Old Test. Lots of mentions of Aaron in it. You've seen that thread by now.

Isn't Alpert looking for the re-incarnated Jacob, as do the Buddists that seek a new Dali-Lama? We've seen that the only Jacob sighting was a pirate age Locke.

IMO, He wanted Locke to choose the book, not the knife. No talk of the comic book yet?

I loved it, cuz FINALLY they showed that the "others" had been following, wrangling, guiding the Losties all of their lives. And in a much more 'involved' way than just 'watching over' them. Just like I had been getting cr*pped on for years for saying.

So far, only Locke for sure, but I'd say it will be Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer as well.

Nature versus nurture...even the same soul would be different born into different circumstances... the "new" John... doesn't like how other people see him. He doesn't want to be the guy that's get's locked in his locker.

but locke chose the knife and it seemed to be the wrong answer? so what was he supposed to choose? I would guess the book of laws, since he's to be the new 'law-giver', whatever.

I read in Jensen's article on EW that each item could be related to a major Lostie...I don't buy that, just sayin' it's been discussed alot already.

I posted that post and actually began this thread last night after the show. Looks like the thread I started was merged with a thread of UAC.

That was my first thought when I saw that scene that all of the items belonged to a "special" Lostie or Island character. But is you read the thread you'll see lots of great ideas about the "test" have been suggested and discussed,

I don't think Locke was ready which is why he chose the knife OR by choosing the knife that was a sign of who Locke really was...and that was NOT who Alpert/the Island wanted at that time. I also don't think a 5 year old boy could be a Leader and Richard doesn't give up on Locke...
A young Ben was told he had to "be patient" by his "mother" .... he wasn't ready at that particular time either...

I can see so many possibilities which is why this topic intriques me. But at this point, I think the Book Of Laws belongs to the Leader whoever that may be...maybe there is an order of the succession of Island "leaders". I think Widmore could have been previous "leader or chosen one" too.


Perhaps,Richard could only go by "signs" in trying to decide which was destined to be the true leader???

I think we might find out Jack is also "a chosen one".
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The end credits list the kid actors as "Locke 5yrs old", then "Locke 15yrs old"


It's been ID'd as the book of Leviticus in Old Test. Lots of mentions of Aaron in it. You've seen that thread by now.

Isn't Alpert looking for the re-incarnated Jacob, as do the Buddists that seek a new Dali-Lama? We've seen that the only Jacob sighting was a pirate age Locke.

IMO, He wanted Locke to choose the book, not the knife. No talk of the comic book yet?

I loved it, cuz FINALLY they showed that the "others" had been following, wrangling, guiding the Losties all of their lives. And in a much more 'involved' way than just 'watching over' them. Just like I had been getting cr*pped on for years for saying.

So far, only Locke for sure, but I'd say it will be Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer as well.

It has been Indentified as Leviticus?? I think it is more likely a ref to the first 5 books of the Old Testament called the "Torah" or "Laws"...Leviticus is the 3rd book in the Torah.

I for one never cr*pped on you about the guides,In fact, I think most people have always agreed. I know, I have always agreed about the guides! I think we called them "handlers"at one time. :smile:
I think all the Losties have "guides". I have always loved that idea. Remember I think the Losties were always meant to be on the Island...

In addition to Locke,Hurley,Kate,Jack,Sawyer, ..I'd say Claire,Charlie,Desmond,Michael,Walt too

I don't know about that, remember in the 1st season how handy Locke was with knives. He got a whole case of knives on the plane because he checked them on the plane. He was also teaching Walt how th use them. I know he may have trained with knives to do his walkabout but he does seem to have a special skill with them. I think the knives were his, part of his personality that carried through the reincarnation, being a hunter. I get what your saying, little boys do think knives are cool, but he picked a bottle of sand first, choosing that before a baseball glove and a comic book, those are some pretty cool items for a boy too, especially for a boy that wanted to fit in.

See the knife...be the knife...(<>..<>)

See the knife...be the knife...(<>..<>)

Nice and in just a few words! Very profound!

I posted that post and actually began this thread last night after the show. Looks like the thread I started was merged with a thread of UAC.

I can see so many possibilities which is why this topic intriques me. But at this point, I think the Book Of Laws belongs to the Leader whoever that may be...maybe there is an order of the succession of Island "leaders". I think Widmore could have been previous "leader or chosen one" too.

I think we might find out Jack is also "a chosen one".

It has been Indentified as Leviticus?? I think it is more likely a ref to the first 5 books of the Old Testament called the "Torah" or "Laws"...Leviticus is the 3rd book in the Torah.

I for one never cr*pped on you about the guides,In fact, I think most people have always agreed. I know, I have always agreed about the guides! I think we called them "handlers"at one time. :smile:
I think all the Losties have "guides". I have always loved that idea. Remember I think the Losties were always meant to be on the Island...

In addition to Locke,Hurley,Kate,Jack,Sawyer, ..I'd say Claire,Charlie,Desmond,Michael,Walt too

I mentioned it here cuz i knew you would remember, but i was dissed a lot on that 'other forum' many times for making it my 'theory' up even way back before you were around. I don't agree, most did not agree, but i do know you did. :kiss: i felt vindicated last night at last.

yes to those other losties as well, but i think the main ones (including Claire of course) are the truly 'special ones', and related to each other.(or at least all were 'made' by the meddling others) still think Jack and Kate are bro & sis. in some fashion.

yes, the other thread says Lev. is sometimes called the "book of laws" i haven't checked in a couple hours for more info on it. you seem to know more about it that the poster. you little 'ole church lady! ;)

Don't you think Locke IS Jacob? a re-incarnated version of him? that's why the book would have already belonged to him?

I got a thread merged last week too..my "is claire dead?" poll.

Thanks for the age info, jennylee! That also means Ben was born around the same time that Alpert "tested" little Locke. The little Locke looked to be about 5 years old.
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Is the Book Of Laws about legal laws,religious laws,societal laws? I still haven't found the book that was shown, maybe it wasn't a real book. Hmmmmm.....
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Weird! It's still my Title listed on the thread still but has UAC as the original poster???

I feel honored as I love UAC's theories but I was so excited to have a thread of mine with over 50 posts and now I can't claim it as just mine anymore, :frown:

LOLOLOL!....<schwoooooooo>.....<schwoooooooo>... Muahahahaha...one day, I will bring you over to THE DARK SIDE and instruct you in the way THE DARK SIDE rolls...<schwoooooooo>.....<schwoooooooo>.....

LOL...seriously though, your title, my post, it's a thread merger done right. Just means I posted in the overall thread first, but hell, I was ripping out quick threads in realtime during the show so that a few key threads of obvious things could get rolling, with titles like Richard Alpert, Comic Book, Abbadon, very fast and generic.

Since your title was better than my rushed Richard Alpert title, justice is served. I was looking at the board all night thinking "Man, the moderators will be earning those donuts and coffee tonight, or coffee and cigarettes (pick your posion), because it will be merger city in here...(<>..<>)

P>S> While on the subject, did last nights scene with Richard's disgust kinda register with the scene in SW where Yoda is telling them that little Annakin has fear within him and it might come back to bite them one day...just a thought (<>..<>)

If they are following the method used to select the Dalai Lama, as tptb have said they are, then they wree looking for Locke to select items that had belonged to Jacob in his last incarnation. This means that Jacob died in the 1950s and the Others have been seeking his reincarnation ever since. They got detoured because Ben wasn't the real deal. I don't think Walt was either, despite his specialness. And I'm not sure Locke is either, unless he dies before the show ends.

I am betting on Aaron to pass with flying colors when he returns to the island.

Cardie

Ok, I just rewatched this scene and have a new idea to toss out for your thoughts.

What if the battle over the island that we see between Widmore and Ben (which I have a feeling is a secondary battle) has actually been a battle over the island through not just generations, but through many incarnations of the same people. Perhaps there are two people who would actually claim that bottle of sand/ the island. But, by choosing the knife instead of something else (maybe the book of laws) Locke showed Richard, that he was not the side of the battle that Richard was looking for. So in effect, Richard did find a special one. One of two, but not the one who is on the side that Richard deems to be the 'good' side. Not to say that Locke is on the bad side, perhaps Richard misinterpreted Locke's choice. But I am liking the idea that there would be more than one child to claim the sand as his own.
I really like this idea. His fear kept him from making his claim.

SQT, I like your theory but it makes me wonder why Richard encouraged Locke when he was faced with the challenge to kill Cooper. It was Richard that provided Locke with Sawyer's file revealing his relationship with Cooper.

SQT, I like your theory but it makes me wonder why Richard encouraged Locke when he was faced with the challenge to kill Cooper. It was Richard that provided Locke with Sawyer's file revealing his relationship with Cooper.

Yes, I definitely have considered that point too. It almost seemed as if it was ok for Locke to have his father killed, as long as he, personally, didn't have the stains on his hands. Richard seemed to be encouraging Locke to pass his knife to someone else, so to speak.

I mentioned it here cuz i knew you would remember, but i was dissed a lot on that 'other forum' many times for making it my 'theory' up even way back before you were around. I don't agree, most did not agree, but i do know you did. :kiss: i felt vindicated last night at last.

yes to those other losties as well, but i think the main ones (including Claire of course) are the truly 'special ones', and related to each other.(or at least all were 'made' by the meddling others) still think Jack and Kate are bro & sis. in some fashion.

yes, the other thread says Lev. is sometimes called the "book of laws" i haven't checked in a couple hours for more info on it. you seem to know more about it that the poster. you little 'ole church lady! ;)

Don't you think Locke IS Jacob? a re-incarnated version of him? that's why the book would have already belonged to him?

I got a thread merged last week too..my "is claire dead?" poll.

I agree there has been some DNA and/genetic tampering going on and do think that more of the Losties are related ..... more than just Claire and Jack. I think you know I've always believed they were Dharma/Hanso babies. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing Jack and Kate are related.... nor do I think Christian is Aaron's father.
I think somewhere along the line Ben and Locke could be related maybe even Charles Widmore too.
Something or someone connects the Losties including Des,Juliet,Ben, and maybe the Widmores to each other AND to the Island. They all seem to have been destined to end up there their whole lives to fulfill their individiual purpose.

I may be wrong but no...I don't think Jacob is Locke. I think Jacob existed many years ago ... an original Island inhabitant who somehow became "one with the Island". I have a hard time explaining this but I think all the Losties are his children bec/ at some level all of them are part of him...part of the Island. I can 't explain how that happens but hopefully we will know more about that in the next couple episodes. Maybe the Orchid Station or the Temple will make what I'm saying possible..

It's something, I have said since day one...some kind of "soul" transfer either individiually or collectively....but leaning towards collectively more than reincarnation of one soul/entity.
Another belief I have really stuck with is the biblical connection to Jacob,the biblical patriarch. And the Losties as well as Ben are "His" somehow...a part of him.

I guess I believe Locke is "a part" of Jacob...

Yikes! I'm now confusing myself! Sorry for rambling! LOL!
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LOLOLOL!....<schwoooooooo>.....<schwoooooooo>... Muahahahaha...one day, I will bring you over to THE DARK SIDE and instruct you in the way THE DARK SIDE rolls...<schwoooooooo>.....<schwoooooooo>.....

LOL...seriously though, your title, my post, it's a thread merger done right. Just means I posted in the overall thread first, but hell, I was ripping out quick threads in realtime during the show so that a few key threads of obvious things could get rolling, with titles like Richard Alpert, Comic Book, Abbadon, very fast and generic.

Since your title was better than my rushed Richard Alpert title, justice is served. I was looking at the board all night thinking "Man, the moderators will be earning those donuts and coffee tonight, or coffee and cigarettes (pick your posion), because it will be merger city in here...(<>..<>)

P>S> While on the subject, did last nights scene with Richard's disgust kinda register with the scene in SW where Yoda is telling them that little Annakin has fear within him and it might come back to bite them one day...just a thought (<>..<>)

LOL!!!

Now that part of Star Wars, I do remember and I can see a relation to Richard's reaction....but Richard is much better looking than Yoda! :biggrin:
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LOST has been compared the novel,"Lord of The Flies" by William Golding. Interestingly,3 objects are used to convey the author's beliefs about human nature throughout the story. The symbols are a pair of glasses,a conch shell, and a knife.
The knife symbolizes the boys' infinite savagery and growing antagonism. In relation to Golding's view of human nature, the knife is a symbol of evil, intimidation, control, violence and power; all qualities of a savage society.

Maybe Alpert was hoping that he could find a "special" child that could defy human nature and not resort to intimidation,control and evilness. Ben eventually resorts to control,imtimidation,and violence which could be why he loses favor with the Island.

So, he was displeased that Locke ends up choosing the knife. Although,he does first choose the compass and the vial of sand.

LOST has been compared the novel,"Lord of The Flies" by William Golding. Interestingly,3 objects are used to convey the author's beliefs about human nature throughout the story. The symbols are a pair of glasses,a conch shell, and a knife.
The knife symbolizes the boys' infinite savagery and growing antagonism. In relation to Golding's view of human nature, the knife is a symbol of evil, intimidation, control, violence and power; all qualities of a savage society.

Maybe Alpert was hoping that he could find a "special" child that could defy human nature and not resort to intimidation,control and evilness. Ben eventually resorts to control,imtimidation,and violence which could be why he loses favor with the Island.

So, he was displeased that Locke ends up choosing the knife. Although,he does first choose the compass and the vial of sand.

Nice connection!

The comic (which is a suitable item to belong to a kid Lockes age) had a cover that looked as if it could be describing events on the island. I think that if Locke had picked it he would have been revealing that he already had a connection to the island and Richard would have taken him to the "special school". Instead Locke chose items that would connect him to the island in the future, so Richard left him for the future.

Pull up a chair, I'm gonna tell ya a story. But, don't ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...(<>..<>)

From "The Brig":
[Two days ago. Locke sits on a hill overlooking the tents. He unwraps his bandage to reveal that his bite has completely healed after six days. Richard appears]

RICHARD: It's beautiful isn't it. No matter how much time you spend on the Island you just never get tired of this view. We haven't been formally introduced, I'm Richard.
[They shake hands]

RICHARD: You mind if I, join you here.

LOCKE: Nah sure.

RICHARD: He wanted to embarrass you.

LOCKE: I'm sorry?

RICHARD: Ben knew you weren't gonna kill your own father. He put you in front of everyone in our camp just so they could all watch ya fail.

LOCKE: Why?

RICHARD: Cause when word got back here that there was a man with a broken spine
on the plane who could suddenly walk again, well, people here began to get very excited because that, that could only happen to someone who was extremely special. But Ben doesn't want anyone to think you're special, John.

LOCKE: And why are you telling me this?

RICHARD: Ben has been wasting our time with novelties like fertility problems. We're looking for someone to remind us that we're here for more important reasons.

LOCKE: What do you want from me?

RICHARD: I want for you to find your purpose. And to do that, your father has to go, John. And since you're not gonna do it, I'm gonna suggest someone else.
[He hands Locke a red folder. Locke looks at it briefly as Richard walks away]

LOCKE: Sawyer! Why would Sawyer kill my father, he doesn't even know him.

RICHARD: [As he leaves] Keep reading.
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So, a "special one" arrives on the island. Richard, who seems to do alot of the Other's leg work, gets ahold of the file on this "special one", takes a quick side trip to the '60's, and tests little Locke to see if he could be "the one". Locke goes for the knife- see the knife be the knife-thus eschewing his true studious nature. And, in reality grown Locke is very studious in a practical tactical way. He would have been a good scientist. But Richard needs a man of science, not a man of faith, because the faith of this man will prove to be very dangerous to the Others at a later date, unless he can find a way to shift those interests Locke wants to pursue. Very dangerous.

I don't think that Locke picked the knife because it was the coolest thing on the table, I'm pretty sure it ended up being a more instinctive, unconscious kinda thing

Richard senses this rebellious nature, and thinks that he needs a different Locke for the work they do, the studious Locke not the rebellious, instinctively knife-wielding Locke. But again the offers seemed to be designed more to get Locke to change his stars and go into a different field of study so as to not start the future war. Again, he tries later in Locke's life to change Locke's interests to no avail. Locke is gonna be this Locke, who fits in better, not egghead Locke who doesn't. Prepare for assimilation my ***...It is futile to not resist...."Don't tell me what I Can't do" = "Don't tell me what I can't be"...

"The fault lies not in our stars, Dear Brutus, but in ourselves...". Richard keeps trying to change Locke's stars, but Locke will fight to be the image of himself he wants to be, to a fault as we've seen. So it is what it is then. Possibly, IT was to take Locke out by running him over with the same mysterious car that also ran over Michael. And, guess what this would have accomplished if they were both dead. No Walt and no Locke on the island, and the Others lives would have been a whole lot easier.

No Walt on the island. No Walt, who the others couldn't handle and didn't want any part of-here's a boat, leave, seeya, cause: nah nah nah nah/nah nah/nah nah/your a superfreak, superfreak, that boy is freakaaaay, owwww! They didn't like Walt's summoning and projection abilities because how would those abilities manifest on the island. Too many unpredictables, simply because Walt is just a mini-me version of Locke. He's smart, rebellious and combative with authority, so I think it's natural that Locke would identify quickly with Walt, and locke recognizes that Walt has some Jedi in him also (see the knife-be the knife), and attempts to help Walt to focus that interest into things that Walt likes, not what everybody else likes for Walt...sound familiar?

So the Others tell Walt good riddance and hasta la vista, baby.

And of course if Locke never makes it there, the Swan doesn't blow, the flame doesn't blow, they don't get detected, they don't lose their supply chain, and they don't get invaded. But guess what. It's too late. It looks like John Locke is already in the island equation/loop, and like Michael now, has something either of a 4D nature or of a "you really are not of this plane, but of the island plane, hence I have no power to kill you" kind of voodoo thing going for him--Cause they just can't snuff The Rooster--double rations of Apollo Bars and dharma Beer to ya if ya catch that reference...AICRIPLS...

I can dig the reincarnation test vibe, but should we take it that literally? It looked more to me like a buddhist personality test. Yeah, maybe they use this method for that purpose, but I felt more like Richard went back to judge Locke's personality and intent and see if he could change some of that via facilitatation. TPTB may have just set it up to look like the re-incarnation test to throw us off, when Richard could have been using the same method, just for other purposes. As far as I'm concerned,it looked to me like young john Locke was the reincarnation of...well, John Locke! Knife, smoke monster art. That's kinda the vibe I got, and in a freaky bit of thought, what if future Locke learns to time shift, puts himself back as 5 year old Locke, and this is his second run at the island, cause I'll get it right this time-just some conjecture there...

So Richard goes with Ben, and tries to employ methods to keep locke from getting to the island. Pretty effective too, until The Dark side that is known as Abaddon steps in and facilitates Locke onto the island, so Locke will blow everything up and help them find it while simultaneously dealing crippling blows to the others defenses. I could probably keep going , but that's about all I got for right now...UAC out...(<>..<>)

P>S> As for the comment about manipulating Hurley, Locke totally manipulated Sawyer from the start of the Cooper story until the end of it. Like I said-studious in a practical tactical way...

UAC, great post. I think that all makes good sense.
I had never thought about how directly responsible Locke was for the island being found in the first place.

And you're my new hero for making reference to The Rooster... much love :D

UAC came flying from far away, now I'm under his spell
I love hearing the stories that he tells of LOST
Places beyond my understanding and they've found new horizons
They speak strangely but I understand..... I think!

Name That Tune!!! LOL

Seriously, I think you are correct about Locke! The knife was instinct from his unconscious, and I agree he may get a chance to redo it all and get right it right this time

Failed the test only in the sense that his "little boy-ness" chose the knife (because knives are cool) even though it hadn't been his. As Richard said, he wasn't yet ready.
I really don't think his "little-boyness" chose the knife. He chose the knife because he's a hunter -- because knives symbolize what he's all about. An old, non-folding knife isn't that cool to a little boy. Certainly not cooler than a compass, baseball glove, or comic book.

Pull up a chair, I'm gonna tell ya a story. But, don't ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...(<>..<>)
...
**edited** I really don't think TPTB double think anything, 'to throw us off'. **edited**

**edited**I really don't think TPTB double think anything, 'to throw us off'. **edited**.



:confused:
We all including you have our "out of the box" theories...
And we all have the right to express our ideas,theories. One of the reasons I love Lost is we can all come up with so many various ways to look at things based on our own experiences,beliefs,areas of interest,etc.

:confused:
We all including you have our "out of the box" theories...
And we all have the right to express our ideas,theories. One of the reasons I love Lost is we can all come up with so many various ways to look at things based on our own experiences,beliefs,areas of interest,etc.

and we all have the right to not believe them, and point out where they are 'creative writing', not theories at all. UAC, Mr. "Dude", is one of the most 'creative writers' here. I get dumped on for saying anything different, and take the heat. He dishes out a lot of 'stuff' to others, he can take a little back, i'm sure.;)

and we all have the right to not believe them, and point out where they are 'creative writing', not theories at all. UAC, Mr. "Dude", is one of the most 'creative writers' here. I get dumped on for saying anything different, and take the heat. He dishes out a lot of 'stuff' to others, he can take a little back, i'm sure.;)

Uhoh the winkie smilie! I saw /read what you think about them to another poster! :smile:

I'm sorry you get "dumped on" though...as you have good ideas as well.

Uhoh the winkie smilie! I saw /read what you think about them to another poster! :smile:

I'm sorry you get "dumped on" though...as you have good ideas as well.
"Watch out! He''s got a Winkie!" ;););)

Just as an example, read what was said to me today when i was supporting another guy's theory re. Christian:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=95241&page=3

p.s. i know you and Kansasgirl are hot for UAC...maybe i'm just jealous, lol! :rolleyes:

So, a "special one" arrives on the island. Richard, who seems to do alot of the Other's leg work, gets ahold of the file on this "special one", takes a quick side trip to the '60's, and tests little Locke to see if he could be "the one". Locke goes for the knife- see the knife be the knife-thus eschewing his true studious nature. And, in reality grown Locke is very studious in a practical tactical way. He would have been a good scientist. But Richard needs a man of science, not a man of faith, because the faith of this man will prove to be very dangerous to the Others at a later date, unless he can find a way to shift those interests Locke wants to pursue. Very dangerous.
Really really good post, bravo. You have taken everything I was thinking and put it together in a way that makes much more sense! :D I love that you included Locke revealing the island's presence and blowing stuff up. Very cool.

I really don't think TPTB double think anything, 'to throw us off'. Actually, they have admitted they do that. Very recently, they have talked about both TTLG and Ji Yeon as employing tricks/surprises with the FB/FF stuff to totally shock us in the final scenes. They have also talked about red herrings and such, so yeah, they purposely try to mess with us. :)

DUDE, that's what You call everyone, right? U think waaaay too much into all this. You and couple others around here should write your own show! ;) I really don't think TPTB double think anything, 'to throw us off'. I don't know which time zone you are in, but it was 9:48 in mine when you posted your long long monologue on a Friday night. 'unf said.

Edit: (JPB, I visited that "other board" with my Open Your Eyes People thread. My 1st post began a flamewar of biblical proportions between me and basically most everybody on that site. They are very xenophobic, it's not your fault. I went supernova, torched their island and after the smoke cleared never went back. And sorry but I don't "dish it out" here on anybody including you, and I've never had a post removed so I'm not sure what you mean...)

Wow, I'm not sure just exactly how to take your post, or what you're trying to intimate, butttt maybe I do a little bit (kinda snarky-I like that!), and since you are so interested in ME! (<>..<>) , pull that chair up again and I'll tell ya another one (beats working), and I'll try to address your concerns so that you won't worry about me so much...and even though it feels like it's getting a little warmer in here, I will of course resist the urge to "flame on", as that's not what the 'lage is about so I'll take the attitude about it "that blessed is he that shepherds the weak through the valley of evil, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children"...Amen brotha, Amen... so here we go...

DUDE, that's what You call everyone, right?

First off-Yeah I probably overuse the term but it is true that I'm Dude, or The Dude if you will. That is very literal and not an exaggeration. It's my nickname and always has been from before the Big Lebowski ever hit the screen. Alot of people I know and have met don't even know or call me by my Christian name unless they know it and need to...I'm just Dude and it works for everybody pretty good. The nickname started so long ago that only my closest peoples really know or ever knew my Christian name, which nobody ever uses anyway. If you ask someone my name they might not know where I live, for instance, but if you ask them who Dude is, they could tell you where I live, for instance. So you can call me UAC, DUDEKHAN, which is another screen name, or just Dude-it all works for me. There's a story behind the nickname, but it's not important. And, I've known guys nicknamed "Stank", "Grinch", "Tic", "Birddog", "Bulldog" "Silent Rage", etc...so "Dude" isn't so bad.

U think waaaay too much into all this. You and couple others around here should write your own show! ;):biggrin: <---I'm sending "chopper" to chew his winky little head off btw...sic balls chopper, sic balls!> (A sixer of Dharma beer to you if you're in on that reference, btw...)

How do you know that we aren't helping to write the show, or sharpening the spear, if you will. In some ways we could be, since this is a great idea factory, and somebody for TPTB must scan these boards somewhat to see what we are discussing, since it is their official site. They've probably got a man on our boat, see. Who's to say they haven't borrowed some ideas. If you got too close or nailed the whole thing, then wouldn't they have to switch up some things to make it somewhat different from that, so that in effect you are helping write the show? Like they said in their theory interview last week, the person who's theory they liked the most should hang their "A" on the refrigerator and feel proud of themselves this season. And then next season we will just crush them and their theory and they've got to start over again (paraphrasing).

Most of the show is pretty easy to figure out or at least have a general understanding if you have been influenced by alot of the same things TPTB are, from Land of the Lost to Stephen King and everything in between (and it doesn't hurt to read your Hawking either), and I've been living off of that stuff for years. Where this board is so great is that if my Star Wars isn't so strong, then your's is. If your Stephen King isn't so good, well mine is. If our Wizard of Oz is weak, then KansasGal lives in Kansas and knows it front and back. Someone may know quantum physics and not have a clue about what the delivery of a line or the look someone gave really means, so all you theater people help the scientific people and vice versa now. Everybody brings a little something with them to this board that makes other people stronger in their knowledge. You could try to go it alone, but remember hybrids are stronger than purebreds because of the mixing of the genes, and maybe we should look at this mixture of knowledge in the same way.

Alot of people like to apply Occam's razor to situations that occur in Lost, which of course is that the simplest explanation is the most likely explanation, and in a way that's right on some levels. But, I'll challenge you to first read your Marcus Aurelious (Clarice), and mainly ask the question of things that you see on the show, "What is it in and of itself, what is it's true nature, and what is just incidental"... For example, Smokey killed Eko, but that is incidental. What is Smokey and what is his true nature is what is most important in the equation. Another example: The Dharma Initiative. They have an Island, but that is incidental. Go back and study the original 7 or so projects that the Hanso Foundation were focusing on, and you will probably have a clearer picture of what Dharma is, in and of itself, and what it's true nature is. (Go ahead-check the original projects-you could probably see then where this was all headed with the experimentation taking place on the island which might enhance the effects of said projects)...

I really don't think TPTB double think anything, 'to throw us off...

What show are you watching, man? (didn't call ya dude). They already admitted in the G4 interview that they had done something like that already. Sam G. has a link to the interview in the LOST SIGHTINGS FORUM under the thread name DAMON & CARLTON, btw. If they weren't throwing us curveballs and fooling us with things, then every theory on this board would be pretty right, and hell, we wouldn't even be postulating theories, and we could all go and watch Dancing With The Stars instead, geez...

I don't know which time zone you are in, but it was 9:48 in mine when you posted your long long monologue on a Friday night. 'unf said

Ok, if unf is supposed to be nuf then all I can say is your rallying cry should be "Dyslexics Untie!" Sorry, couldn't resist. Well JPB, it was about 1 am here when I started that little diddy, but hey what can I say but that I'm nocturnal. I see that you might be implying that since I'm not out on Friday night that I'm probably some sheltered geek, but in reality now that I've got a 3 and a 4 year old, I'm not out ballin' like I used to be, but I still get out dude. Don't feel sorry for me because Monday I was at the Five Finger Death Punch/ Disturbed (RAWK) show at HOB-Myrtle Beach, so don't think I'm like a shut-in or lonely or anything, although I sincerely appreciate your concern! See, it's like Tom Friendly said, some of us (husbands) can get off the island at times, and when I do I like to indulge myself too-with some cold brew and a loud show.

Plus, since I've got like 8 tracks in my head where some people only have one or two, I'm a real multi-tasker so believe it or not I was watching TV, talking on the phone, making some coffee (engaging the java program), reading other posts, checking on my kids and watching over my family while they slept, and running another window for info and lyrics and such all while writing that post which didn't take me as long as you think it did, since two years of typing class lets me spit out words on this thing faster than an epileptic auctioneer (I can play this keyboard like a mother******* RIOT!--A little Sublime--RIP Bradley Nowell). And, with bullet trains running on those 8 tracks I mentioned, kinda make this pretty effortless for me, but that's just how I roll, DUDE!

I'll let my kindrid spirit, The Dude from The Big Lebowski sum it up for ya:"Lotta ins. Lotta outs. A lotta what-have-yous. A lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder's head..." --The Dude 'NUFF SAID? (<>..<>)

And now, to get back on topic, even though that was on topic because you posed the questions to me, sure Richard may have been running the reincarnation test on Locke, and even though like Ben, he's not the one, he may decide that like Ben, he's the one for now. If they are looking for a reincarnation figure I guess you have to lean more toward Aaronkin Liitlewalker and see if he grabs the Code of the Jedi Manual or the lightsaber, huh?...This all has a very Matrix vibe to it, as in The Matrix, Neo wasn't The One, he was just The One For Now, and his real purpose was to facilitate the survival of the true THE ONE, which was the little girl at the end of the trilogy who could totally manipulate and control The Matrix. Is Locke the THE ONE FOR NOW who's real purpose is to facilitate the survival of the true THE ONE which would be Aaronkin Littlewalker?...

Gotta love it. Is the Fuselage the best board or what! <and a cheer goes up from the crowd> (<>..<>)

The impression I got was that Richard was trying to see if Locke could "feel" the future... that these objects WOULD be his eventually, and could Locke sense them? Remember... only fools are slaves to space and time... the present/past/future are all part of who you are.

As a futher nod in that direction, younger Locke had a Geronimo Jackson (obscure band that no one else on the island had heard of) LP jacket taped to his locker. Perhaps he liked the band because he felt that it was part of him... in the future he;d be spending a LOT of time in a hatch with it and maybe already identified with the music.

The impression I got was that Richard was trying to see if Locke could "feel" the future... that these objects WOULD be his eventually, and could Locke sense them? Remember... only fools are slaves to space and time... the present/past/future are all part of who you are.

As a futher nod in that direction, younger Locke had a Geronimo Jackson (obscure band that no one else on the island had heard of) LP jacket taped to his locker. Perhaps he liked the band because he felt that it was part of him... in the future he;d be spending a LOT of time in a hatch with it and maybe already identified with the music.

Or, he was drawn to Geronimo Jackson because of the time he had already spent in the hatch, an innate and instinctual imprint like the knife and The Smoke monster drawing, ya think? (<>..<>)

TPTB ... well... let's say they are paid to LIE... bwahahahaha

I keep thinking of the title of the epi "man of science, man of faith" at the time we all assumed the title refered to 2 people Jack-man of science, Locke-man of faith. But after this last epi I wonder if that title was just referring to Locke.In the "Man of Science, Man of Faith" commentary, Lindelof (I think) says the title refers solely to Jack.

In the "Man of Science, Man of Faith" commentary, Lindelof (I think) says the title refers solely to Jack.

It's said multiple times on that commentary track, in fact it's almost the main point.

Darlton's not known for consistency, though. They may have changed their minds since then.

UAC, great post. I think that all makes good sense.
I had never thought about how directly responsible Locke was for the island being found in the first place.

And you're my new hero for making reference to The Rooster... much love :D

Thanks-keep an eye open for a pallet that will appear out of nowhere from "the conveyer belt in the sky" at your coordinates between 9:01.01pm and 9:01.02pm tonight.... It will contain double rations of Apollo Bars with their creamy psychotropic nougat amd Dharma Trippin' Hippie beer for that "can't snuff the rooster" reference, because I believe that you do know what that means. It would probably be good to keep people inside until the pallet actually drops, or somebody could be vertically challenged like, forever, if they happen to be standing in the target zone. UAC out...(<>..---)

It's said multiple times on that commentary track, in fact it's almost the main point.

Darlton's not known for consistency, though. They may have changed their minds since then.
It looks like to me that Locke is going to need his "Science self" to move the Island. I think Jack will end up becoming more of a Man Of Faith to get back to the Island and Locke will become more of a Man of Science to save the Island.
Gotta have both to survive!


UAC....LOL!!
I'm sending "chopper" to chew his winky little head off btw...sic balls chopper, sic balls!> (A sixer of Dharma beer to you if you're in on that reference, btw...)

Wanna send me that six pack of Dharma beer .... :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
And "Stop teasing my dog!!!!"

There are 6 items over there and I guess each of them belongs someone special but only one belongs to one that more special.
When I see the Baseball glove (I don"t know the exact world) Jack flashed in my mind.
When I see the compass Sayid flashed. The comic remembered me Hurley and Walt. Knife-Locke, book- Sawyer and his sexy eyeglasses:D, sand-no idea.

It looks like to me that Locke is going to need his "Science self" to move the Island. I think Jack will end up becoming more of a Man Of Faith to get back to the Island and Locke will become more of a Man of Science to save the Island.
Gotta have both to survive!


UAC....LOL!!
I'm sending "chopper" to chew his winky little head off btw...sic balls chopper, sic balls!> (A sixer of Dharma beer to you if you're in on that reference, btw...)

Wanna send me that six pack of Dharma beer .... :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
And "Stop teasing my dog!!!!"

Writer: " No Trespassing was enforced by Milo Pressman, the junkman, and his dog
Chopper. The most feared and least seen dog in Castle Rock. Legend had
it that Milo had trained Chopper not just to sic, but to sic specific
parts of the human anatomy. Thus a kid who had illegally scaled the
junkyard fence might hear the dread cry: 'Chopper, sic balls!!' But
right now neither the dread Chopper nor Milo was anywhere in sight. "

Milo: Hey! Hey you kid! What're you doing there?! Come over here! You, you!
Come back here! Come back here dammit! I'll sic my dog on you!
C,T,V: Run, Gordie, run!
Milo: Chopper sic him, sic him boy!
Writer: Now he said "sic him boy". But what I heard was "Chopper! Sic! Balls!".
Gordie: <scream>
C,T,V: Come on!
Gordie: That's Chopper?
Writer: Chopper was my first lesson in the vast difference between myth and
reality.---Stand By Me-1986-Raynold Gideon & Stephen King

As Frank Druckett likes to say at the end of the Whispers, "It'll come back around again"...more on myth and reality and "it'll come back around again" below...

Good job! You got your beer. But all I can ship are pallets because I'm not a mathematician and I don't wanna fool with any switches and get myself Casimired, eh? So you get alot of beer!...So it'll be standard interdimensional supply drop protocol, to wit: pallet will appear out of nowhere from "the conveyer belt in the sky" at your coordinates.... Contents: Dharma Trippin' Hippie beer and one bonafide tin of Locke's Jungle Paste, but go easy on that stuff, it's strictly ceremonial. (<>..<>)

Ok, I just had a thought. I know, what's new, right? Why would items from Kate, Sawyer, Walt etc. when Kate and Sawyer are pretty much deemed as unworthy to join the Others, and the Others couldn't get rid of Walt fast enough?

HENRY GALE: I'm not happy about the arrangement that was made with you Michael, but we got more than we bargained for when Walt joined us, so I suppose this is what's best.

It all starts off bad when Richard sees the Smokey drawing by kiddie Locke, and then things go south like a rocket with a rocket up it's butt from there on out with the interview. Nothing good can come from this...

I think it's meant to be a reincarnation test on the level of your own reincarnation in a freaky twist. It would be more of a memory/personality test then, which would include how much you remember from your "past life" on the island and about what kind of person you will become because, and wrap your head around this now, : Locke is choosing the knife because of his time on the island. Locke's time on the island and his imprints of it have totally changed kiddie Locke now...now he wants the knife! Because of the imprinting, the knife just "feels right" now and maybe subconsciously he knows this is the path back to the island. It reveals how his time on the island has now shaped kiddie Locke into something different. It has now become a vicious wrinkle in time or a loop because island Locke formed kiddie Locke, not the other way around!

When I said that John Locke felt like he was the reincarnation of, uhmmm John Locke, that was just a vibe, but now I think I know what I meant when I said that. Kiddie John Locke has imprints of a past life type deal on the island. I know, past life sounds weird and is twisty-freaky, but this show is twisty-freaky too. It could validate where I think the island could be kept and one place is that it is held in the past. This way, no interference from the primitives (like the people who built 4 toe) and surrounding primitives in the world, because the rest of the world is just that-primitive. No interference from the present/future people because they can't find you in the past. Wether this is the case or my other favorite, the 11th dimension link, we still do know that time and your perception of time are all different on the island. So maybe that could've had some effect on the situation.

Go test them all Richard, and see how many more future Losties are now warped little kids coming to kill you're people and destroy your island. Now Richard is going back and checking for this, and dammit now he has a wrinkle to iron out because their island has now created the exact force that will be coming to destroy their island in the first place. Richard, in effect is having to deal with his own island version of The Valenzetti Equation. Now it's trying to fix things after the fact, it seems, to correct things before the fact.

Just as in the Valenzetti equation, 4 8 15 16 23 42, there are 6 numbers and one number must be changed to save mankind, so with 6 items the fate of one of these people must be changed also to save islandkind. If you can break one of these people out of the cycle, and they go a different direction in life, and you can be there to stop your enemy from facilitating them on to the island despite what you have changed, then I submit that all this destruction should not come to pass, because you were able to change one of the variables in this equation, hence changing the outcome of this equation.

6 Numbers. 6 Items. 6 survivors. Man that's 666-kinda creepy, huh? And I would say that John Locke is no messiah or Jesus Christ figure, because he's basically the anti-christ to the Others and has brought apocalypse to bear. And they had somewhat of a hand in creating this very dangerous "man of faith" who like the Revelations anti-christ suffered a terrible wound, but through a "miracle", rises up like a phoenix to take command as the saviour. Sounding familiar at all? It's in the Bible.

Remember, he's working with Ben but he never "joined the others", he "infiltrated" the Others as he explained to Sawyer. But, I still have a feeling Ben could be running some kind of "long con" on Locke to help accomplish something that he needs him for. Locke is very "amenable to coercion" and usually get's screwed as a result of misplaced trust, and for some reason I think Ben is using this to his advantage even though it might not look that way at the moment. John Locke never wants to leave the island, and that could be a problem for the people who are trying to make sure that you never reach the island.

If this is the case, because it is pretty wild to think about and maybe I am being a "creative writer" on this one, but, if this is the case, then you can bet that there could be the same tests administered to crucial Losties who came to the island and caused the most grief for the Others. Kate, sure. Sayid, sure. Sawyer, sure. Hurley, sure. Jack, sure. Sun, sure. Locke, sure. And the interesting thing is that most of these people survived, and most of these people dealt crippling blows to the Others by actually killing alot of them and the stations. Most if not all of these Losties end up with the Other's blood on their hands. You gotta change one of these peoples fates so they don't end up on the island and that can break the chain.

One thing that I believe is a common theme is that everyone of them is highly resourceful and incredibly rebellious, even Walt. And they all have authority figure issues, such as daddy issues and law enforcement issues, and my boss Randy is a jerk issues. Like I said-authority issues. And is the island responsible for them turning in to these kinds of people when it could have gone a different way and they could have been different people entirely? And Desmond, our rebellious Scotsman is cut from the same cloth as the rest of them, and has proven amenable to facilitation.

So, here's the kicker, the punch line if you will. Hurley and Jack are right: now they have to go back to the island, a place of redemption because until they are redeemed they will remain the same people whose island induced traits start the whole vicious cycle off. They need to make a change and receive a redemption so that they will change into the people they should have been, not the people they were forced to be, which will change the equation. Change the person, change the equation. Then, if they were to go back around and test kiddie Locke again, he would make the right choice because he will no longer be the same kiddie Locke anymore with a bad taste of the island left lingering in his mind.

If Locke goes for the right object, then Richard can see that Locke is on the correct path, and this is more likely what he will pursue-mission accomplished. But when he grabs the knife, Richard is pissed because now, like I said, they are confronted with their own little Valenzetti Equation to work out. Also, for instance, if he went to see Kate he might take the 6 items, but they would be 6 different items for her, because I would have to bet my last dollar that if this did indeed occur, Kates model airplane she fought so hard to get would be the one item that Alpert would not want her to choose...

Redemption will bring an end to the vicious cycle in itself, but could this whole thing have started because Ben needed a spinal surgeon and whattya know...one falls right out of the sky! (<>..<>)

There are 6 items over there and I guess each of them belongs someone special but only one belongs to one that more special.
When I see the Baseball glove (I don"t know the exact world) Jack flashed in my mind.
When I see the compass Sayid flashed. The comic remembered me Hurley and Walt. Knife-Locke, book- Sawyer and his sexy eyeglasses:D, sand-no idea.

Most are saying that the 'book of law' was Locke's 'right answer' because:
The book has been ID'd as the same one that Eko gives to Locke in the Swan hatch and it has the film strip from Swan Orientation in it. My question is; who owned the glass eye that was found with the book in the chest at the Aarow hatch? Jacob? I still think Jacob is an earlier model/incarnation of Locke, so it must be his?

the sand is thought to be: rock salt of the same kind that surrounds Jacob's cabin. Beach sand from Lostia Island. Cremation ashes of...?

p.s UAC: I got my post deleted but i see that you quoted me and that did not get deleted...? Sorry you posted way too much for me to read on a sunday morning, but maybe later. But, I love that you used "xenophobic" in a sentence. Please tell me what it means? can u say what forum you got into a war at? the alphabet plot? :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

The book has been ID'd as the same one that Eko gives to Locke in the Swan hatch and it has the film strip from Swan Orientation in it.It's not the same book. The book Eko found in the Arrow was a Holy Bible.

Seen here. (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Arrowbible.jpg)

I re-watched "The Brig." Very interesting. UnderAlienControl posted a transcript a few pages ago in this thread.

What's interesting is that Ben gives Locke a knife and tells him to kill his father (Anthony Cooper). Locke gets the point of the knife right under his dad's throat, but then changes his mind and refuses to use the knife. He walks away in the darkness, while Ben says to the Others, "He's not who we thought he was." As Locke passes Richard Alpert, Richard gives him a very appraising look, looks him up and down. It is the very next morning that Richard approaches Locke on the hillside and confides that many are losing faith in Ben's leadership, and Richard helps Locke by giving him the folder with Sawyer's info. I think Richard approached Locke at that time precisely because Locke chose not to use the knife. Maybe he finally passed Richard's test....

It's not the same book. The book Eko found in the Arrow was a Holy Bible.

Seen here. (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Arrowbible.jpg)

Wow, find that thread and post it there..
EDIT: here booga, i found it:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=95147

.i was convinced by the other people's theory on this. but didn't Eko give that big speech on the old test bible was called the book of laws? He had quoted that episode and everything! hey, i'm just the messenger on this one!

So, then have we seen that exact book cover before?

My initial thought when young John picked the vial of sandy matter, the compass, and then the knife was