So is claire Dead? That was spooky!

She gave me the major creeps tonight, dead or not. And considering she's one of the least-threatening characters on the show, and I'm notoriously hard to freak out, that's saying something.

Yeah it was crazy. I'm really starting to think neither one of them are dead.

Now I'm thinking she is dead too. WOW was she acting odd. The way she was just lounging in that chair, her posture was all wrong for normal-Claire. And that creepy half smile at the end of the scene?! If she IS dead, when did she die? In the house explosion, or later, when she went off with Christian?

Alive or dead - She was definately not herself! It's about time they made her character interesting!

is claire dead? is that why shes in the cabin with christian?

did she get killed in the bombing on her house?

what do people think?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's dead. Last episode there was a poll for if she was dead or not. And the arguments for yes were really good. Miles staring at her. Miles not being weirded out by her going off with her Dad. Miles wanting to hold Aaron.
Not to mention the fact that Claire was woozy and seeing things. The general idea is that she died in her sleep, after suffering a worse head injury than they had realized.

But by "dead", obviously I mean just as dead as Christian and Charlie are, which is kind of not so dead....

Darlton have given us the Zombie Season early!

That was very creepy. She seemed very "at peace" with her Dad and just lounging there in the dark without Aaron. I'm thinking she's dead now too. I'm sure Christian is - or he is at least what Darlton has referred to as the "undead." Maybe Claire and Charlie fall into that category now too. Does anyone have the exact line that Christian says about Aaron? Something about his being where he is supposed to be for now.

She reminded me of "The First" Buffy.

Too scary! That little creepy smile she shared with Christian - EW!

As to whether she is alive or not - I would like to say yes because it would explain her behavior as of late. (Maybe she has no soul!)

Makes me wonder if the cabin is a "holding" place for people passing through time...?

Crazy Claire is like the best thing ever. I hope she's not dead.

She wasn't herself but who knows what she's been through since disappearing.

If she is dead and that was a vision I certainly don't think she died in the bombing of her house, unless she was a zombie in the subsequent scene, but this isn't the zombie season.

I think she's alive but under the influence. Of what, I have no idea.

What about the prophecy though? How does that fit in if she's dead (and I would believe that she is other than that one thing...that Aaron must be raised by Claire)?

my first reaction tells me that yes she is dead. And that she died in the house explosion. Plus the way her attitude was all relaxed and calm just was eery. I do not know where this arc is headed but at first glance I'm not liking it. If she is dead. Then Charlie died for nothing. And it would also seem that Desmond either lied or that his visions were wrong. which i thought the only reason the producers decided to kill Charlie were to give some credibility to Desmond's visions.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Desmond's vision. I just said in another thread that I'd completely believe she's dead except for the prophecy about her being the one who has to raise Aaron. So there are two things now that don't jive w/ her being dead (of course if Des & the fortune teller guy were telling the truth). Creepy claire reminded me a little of when she was drugged up by Ethan.

Major spooky! What was with the Creepy Claire smile. Totally un-Claire like.
Did Christian turn her to the Dark Side?:vampire:

How could she have died in the house explosion and been in all the subsequent scenes?

At first, I thought she was dead but, after thinking about it, she really did remind me of the way she acted when Ethan drugged her. I think she's in some kind of hypnotic state.

Is it even her at all and not some island replicant?

She did seem drugged. But also happy. I like the knowledge that she knows where Aaron is and that he is leaving the island. I don't know if she is ok with it, but at least she knows!!

I'd completely believe she's dead except for the prophecy about her being the one who has to raise Aaron.

Well, this is the Island, after all. You can't automatically assume that Claire needs to be alive in order to have her raise Aaron once he returns to the island. I could certainly picture JJ coming up with the idea of undead Claire as being a loving mother to little Aaron.

I hope she isn't dead. She needs to get her baby back from Kate. She did seem really weird. I'm going to say she is alive, though.

That was so frakkin' weird.

I SO did not expect to see her sitting there, all chill, looking for all the world like nothing was wrong.

Either she's dead, or possessed, or she's just been let in on some huge cosmic secret and doesn't think she has anything about which to worry.

Bizarre.

This ep was a total mindf*ck.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's dead. Last episode there was a poll for if she was dead or not. And the arguments for yes were really good. Miles staring at her. Miles not being weirded out by her going off with her Dad. Miles wanting to hold Aaron.
Not to mention the fact that Claire was woozy and seeing things. The general idea is that she died in her sleep, after suffering a worse head injury than they had realized.

But by "dead", obviously I mean just as dead as Christian and Charlie are, which is kind of not so dead....

Darlton have given us the Zombie Season early!

:eek2: If Claire really is dead, and TPTB allow her to stay on the show as a main character...

OMG, I'VE GOT A REQUEST, PTB! :67hissy:

-----

It would be cool if she were already dead, if they could manage to make it work without being cliche.

I don't think that was the real Claire or CS, just as it's wasn't the real Horace Goodspeed that Locke was speaking to in his "dream." If you notice, FHG (Fake Horace Goodspeed) "re-booted" at least once, meaning it was some sort of projection (astral?). Cerberus phasing in and out? The question is: What is the cabin really? What type of environment exists within it's walls? A holodeck of sorts?

I hope she's not dead! But that scene was really, really weird. What does Christian want with her?

I'm hoping she's just drugged or something - we have seen her like that before with Ethan.

She reminded me of "The First" Buffy.

You mentioned Buffy! You're a god.

I thought the same thing...interesting.

We know that Kate has Aaron off the island. We've seen her and Jack with Aaron. Christian's comment about, Aaron being where he's supposed to be, pluse what we've already seen in the flash-forwards makes me think she is dead. But then again, this is Lost and nothing is as it seems......

It's true that we've seen her like this once before, so maaaybe she's just drugged again. But, I dunno.

Re: the astral projection comments above... I'm not sure about that theory in this case. Keep in mind that Horace was in a dream, so any "rebooting" wasn't necessarily re: astral projection.

I don't think Claire is dead/died in the house explosion. How could Sawyer have interacted with her in all the subsequent scenes? Certainly Sawyer doesn't see dead people...yet.

The real question that we should be asking is 1) Why does Christian need Claire? and 2) What is her purpose (destiny) in the rest of the show?
This episode had a lot of talk about people's places in the greater scheme of things and this is the first time Claire seems to be of importance to what happens on the next days of the show

I don't know if she is dead, but based on last episode and the interaction with Miles, and what I have read on the boards I am leaning that way...but let me say that I completely agree with everyone who said that she was totally and completely CREEPY! Dead or alive something has changed with Claire!

I like this idea that she died in the cabin explosion. No idea if it is true, but it could be interesting. I vote that she's dead.

I like the new Claire! She's Muy Caliente!!! The old Claire was boring and stiff- I would much rather have the undead Claire any day of the week. Hey maybe she can get together with undead Charlie and play undead water polo or something!:biggrin:

I don't think that was the real Claire or CS, just as it's wasn't the real Horace Goodspeed that Locke was speaking to in his "dream." If you notice, FHG (Fake Horace Goodspeed) "re-booted" at least once, meaning it was some sort of projection (astral?). Cerberus phasing in and out? The question is: What is the cabin really? What type of environment exists within it's walls? A holodeck of sorts?

Remember, John saw Walt (Taller Ghost Walt) and we know he was already off of the island, although we still can't be sure what that was. That said, I think Claire is "dead" in some manner or another. It just fits with the way Miles was acting.
100%
my first reaction tells me that yes she is dead. And that she died in the house explosion. Plus the way her attitude was all relaxed and calm just was eery. I do not know where this arc is headed but at first glance I'm not liking it. If she is dead. Then Charlie died for nothing. And it would also seem that Desmond either lied or that his visions were wrong. which i thought the only reason the producers decided to kill Charlie were to give some credibility to Desmond's visions.

Maybe Desmond did lie, but only partially. Maybe he saw Aaron getting saved, but not Claire, but couldn't tell Charlie that (maybe) in part because it would also lead to him being back with Penny. It does still seem out of character a little for Desmond to lie, however.

Remember, John saw Walt (Taller Ghost Walt) and we know he was already off of the island, although we still can't be sure what that was. That said, I think Claire is "dead" in some manner or another. It just fits with the way Miles was acting.
100%


Maybe Desmond did lie, but only partially. Maybe he saw Aaron getting saved, but not Claire, but couldn't tell Charlie that (maybe) in part because it would also lead to him being back with Penny. It does still seem out of character a little for Desmond to lie, however.

Yeah, weighing the evidence, it would seem Claire is as dead as one can be that dies on the Island. The only catch is, what if The Island has a purpose for Claire? Wouldn't that mean it would prevent her death-at least for a time? I guess she could be in some tweener state, although both she and CS looked so "real." Vessels for spirits running amok?

She's dead.

I don't know if she's dead, but she sure did look stoned in that cabin.

Creepy Claire reminded me a lot of the Laura Palmer from the Black Lodge. She really creeped me out.

Creepy Claire reminded me a lot of the Laura Palmer from the Black Lodge. She really creeped me out.

OMG that's it exactly.

I don't thinks she's dead. I don't think Christian is dead either. This is Lost right?

Christian's comment about Aaron being exactly where he needs to be leads me to believe that he wasn't suppose to be on the island. I've always had a thought that Claire was the special one and not Aaron.

Then Charlie's message to Jack made me wonder why he wasn't suppose to raise him. Claire was told she had to raise Aaron. Charlie tells Jack he's not suppose to raise him.

So who the hell is suppose to raise him?! Please dear God, don't let it be Kate!!! :63:

Maybe he saw Aaron getting saved, but not Claire, but couldn't tell Charlie that (maybe) in part because it would also lead to him being back with Penny. It does still seem out of character a little for Desmond to lie, however.

Now don't get me wrong - I don't intend to badmouth Desmond (he's my second favorite character btw) but "partially lying" about his visions is actually something we've seen him do before.

Recall Catch-22. He lied to Charlie and denied having visions of Charlie's death because he believed Penny would parachute onto the island if he convinced Charlie to attend his male bonding soirée. However, being the decent and lovable Desmond we all know, he ended up saving Charlie in that scenario at the last second.

Just saying: Desmond is certainly capable of lying re: his visions... although... he hasn't really had any for some time, has he?

Just psychedelic time-travel, that's all
:biggrin:

I think the theories may have been right

However, I believe they were based on spoilers. The theory came out after SOTTG epi, in which there was not a shred of logic that would cause anyone to think she was dead. Even after SNBH there was very little to base this on and the vast majoity of the board thought the theory was cool...but bunk.

I checked past spoilers to see and sure enough this was out there(pictures of creepy claire in the cabin and goodspeed alive). I posted a thread but someone who didnt take the time to read it deleted it. Spoilers about episodes already aired on NOT SPOILERS(just in case someone wants to delete this too)

I thought my thread was important because it appears that we have all been spoiled by people who based theories on spoilers. But Im not typing it again

Creepy Claire reminded me a lot of the Laura Palmer from the Black Lodge. She really creeped me out.

Triple bonus points for spotting a Twin Peaks/Lost parallel pertaining to the creepy, uncharacteristic behavior of two blondes in metaphysical Cabins/Lodges.

Wow.

We know Christian is dead, Jack was bringing him back in a casket. Claire is dead. What I want to know is who's funeral did Jack go to in last year's finally.

I don't think she is dead, but she is definitely under the influence of something... be it the Island or Jacob. :confused:

I think the theories may have been right

However, I believe they were based on spoilers. The theory came out after SOTTG epi, in which there was not a shred of logic that would cause anyone to think she was dead. Even after SNBH there was very little to base this on and the vast majoity of the board thought the theory was cool...but bunk.

I checked past spoilers to see and sure enough this was out there(pictures of creepy claire in the cabin and goodspeed alive). I posted a thread but someone who didnt take the time to read it deleted it. Spoilers about episodes already aired on NOT SPOILERS(just in case someone wants to delete this too)

I thought my thread was important because it appears that we have all been spoiled by people who based theories on spoilers. But Im not typing it again

I think discussion of previews isn't allowed, so that may be why your post was deleted.

This thread is making me laugh...especially you, LostLaura.

I think Claire is dead. Most sincerely dead.

I too think that Claire is dead, but I don't think she's "on something" or being trippy. The Claire in the cabin seemed at ease, and comfortable with where she's at. I think when Christian came and took her away, he probably explained a lot of things to her about just what exactly is going on, and her place in the grand scheme of things on the Island. The little smile after John asked the "right" question ("How do I save the Island?") was her acknowledging that he asked it, and her acknowledging that she KNOWS that that's the right question for him to be asking.

The big questions here are:

Why is Aaron not supposed to be on the Island now? What is Claire's place in the Island scheme of things? If she is supposed to be the one raising him, at least, according to the Island, this must be the way that things have to be happening in order for the Island to get what it wants.

Just my .02. :shrug:

I think the theories may have been right

However, I believe they were based on spoilers. The theory came out after SOTTG epi, in which there was not a shred of logic that would cause anyone to think she was dead. Even after SNBH there was very little to base this on and the vast majoity of the board thought the theory was cool...but bunk.

I checked past spoilers to see and sure enough this was out there(pictures of creepy claire in the cabin and goodspeed alive). I posted a thread but someone who didnt take the time to read it deleted it. Spoilers about episodes already aired on NOT SPOILERS(just in case someone wants to delete this too)

I thought my thread was important because it appears that we have all been spoiled by people who based theories on spoilers. But Im not typing it again

if you had a problem with a post of yours that got deleted, then you should have asked. i have not looked at the RPs for it or to see what was deleted, but really, whining about it in such a smug manner is a bit rude. your post can probably be retrieved if you want to share your theory again.

my first reaction tells me that yes she is dead. And that she died in the house explosion. Plus the way her attitude was all relaxed and calm just was eery. I do not know where this arc is headed but at first glance I'm not liking it. If she is dead. Then Charlie died for nothing. And it would also seem that Desmond either lied or that his visions were wrong. which i thought the only reason the producers decided to kill Charlie were to give some credibility to Desmond's visions.

Charlie was going to die. It was just a matter of time. Desmond couldn't stop that. Just as Hawking couldn't stop the man in the red shoes from dying.
100%
Originally Posted by John Burger http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1881055#post1881055)
I think the theories may have been right

However, I believe they were based on spoilers. The theory came out after SOTTG epi, in which there was not a shred of logic that would cause anyone to think she was dead. Even after SNBH there was very little to base this on and the vast majoity of the board thought the theory was cool...but bunk.

I checked past spoilers to see and sure enough this was out there(pictures of creepy claire in the cabin and goodspeed alive). I posted a thread but someone who didnt take the time to read it deleted it. Spoilers about episodes already aired on NOT SPOILERS(just in case someone wants to delete this too)

I thought my thread was important because it appears that we have all been spoiled by people who based theories on spoilers. But Im not typing it again
I was a big proponent of the Claire is dead camp. And not because I saw a picture, which I did not. I based it on Claire suffering a head wound, Miles' odd attitude toward her, Claire following her dead father, leaving her baby unattended, and Aaron being gone from the island leaving her character irrelevant. That is the logic I based my theory on.

Is it even her at all and not some island replicant?


OOOOOOO...now I don't know, Karri! Good idea and now I'm afraid my brain's going to explode. :eek2:

I think she is dead too. It's hard to imagine Kate playing mommy to Aaron, knowing that his real mother is alive. So, I say she's dead.

She's totally dead. This is what happened...When the house fell on her after it exploded she died for a brief moment (that's why when she awoke she called Charlie's name). Then she came to life again for a short period of time (long enough to be saved by Sawyer and carry Aaron almost back to camp). Along the way we hear rude comments about Claire's upcoming death by Miles. Then while sleeping around the campfire, Miles prediction comes true and Claire actually dies and her dad escorts her away for island help. Now dad and daughter rue the island with grandpa Jacob.

I don't know but she was really creepy in that cabin. Just like "oh everything's just peachy fine. I'm here in this creepy cabin in the jungle with my father, who is equally creepy for even being here on the island."

Yeah, I didn't think so until I just read this, but now Miles cryptic comments like "Not yet" and his seeing dead people makes sense. Nothing is put in this show for no reason. That's why Miles was put here.

I'm not quite sure when she died, or if she has simply "crossed over" in some way (TPTB said that the strict definitions of life and death will not always apply on this show). But she has undergone a major transformation that will define her character for the rest of the series.

she look drugged up haha

She was so creepy -- in a goosebumps everywhere kind of way. Oh my God. :fear3:

I just had a thought after reading the first post that the house colapsing or falling on Claire may have been another wizard of oz reference. We haven't had one of those in awhile. Yeah it may be a strech, but the witch that had the house fall on her in The Wizard of Oz did die. Maybe that head bump Claire had was a little more seirous than we all first though, she complained about it a lot.

I never really thought Miles was treating her oddly because she was dead. I thought he was acting odd (ie, asking if he could hold the baby) because the spirits on the island were telling him that Keamy was coming and he wanted to protect Aaron by holding him without actually admitting that he knew something bad was about to happen. Maybe he knows that Aaron is special and that he's supposed to protect him. I never thought he was acting as if Claire was dead.

She's so creepy and scaaaaary! :hide:

Ok Claire is deadish at least as dead as Christian and Charlie and Yemi for that matter. I must say that I thought that Claire might be dead back in Eggtown but only because I couldn't think of any reason Claire would let Aaron go with Kate unless she was dead. Events since that episode have just helped confirm this. Btw miles was acting strange towards her.

She's totally dead. This is what happened...When the house fell on her after it exploded she died for a brief moment (that's why when she awoke she called Charlie's name). Then she came to life again for a short period of time (long enough to be saved by Sawyer and carry Aaron almost back to camp). Along the way we hear rude comments about Claire's upcoming death by Miles. Then while sleeping around the campfire, Miles prediction comes true and Claire actually dies and her dad escorts her away for island help. Now dad and daughter rue the island with grandpa Jacob.

Yup, I can see Claire as dead, too. Also - because there's no other way Kate would have wound up with Aaron - I can't imagine Claire handing Aaron over to Kate, and I can't imagine Kate kidnapping him.

My opinion, and again, only an opinion. Nothing spoilerish here! I think that Claire is in some kind of limbo where she is convinced to let Aaron leave the island, that he will be taken care of by Kate and Jack. And since they are still bringing up this "not raised by another" when Hurley said that Jack is not suppose to raise him, I feel that they are destined to go back to the island (of course); therefore, Aaron will be reunited with his mother, the one who is suppose to raise him.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I guess it's just hope that she's not dead or the fact that from the very beginning when they told her story that Aaron was not suppose to be raised by another! So why would the writers screw that all up? Just a theory:rolleyes: .

My opinion, and again, only an opinion. Nothing spoilerish here! I think that Claire is in some kind of limbo where she is convinced to let Aaron leave the island, that he will be taken care of by Kate and Jack. And since they are still bringing up this "not raised by another" when Hurley said that Jack is not suppose to raise him, I feel that they are destined to go back to the island (of course); therefore, Aaron will be reunited with his mother, the one who is suppose to raise him.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I guess it's just hope that she's not dead or the fact that from the very beginning when they told her story that Aaron was not suppose to be raised by another! So why would the writers screw that all up? Just a theory:rolleyes: .

Maybe they're not screwing that all up. Maybe we will see Aaron's ff showing he has become evil or something like that...

Maybe they're not screwing that all up. Maybe we will see Aaron's ff showing he has become evil or something like that...
Or maybe the psychic purposely told Claire that to get her onto that plane so she'd end up on the island for whomever is suppose to really raise Aaron to "get" him. Also, remember in Ecko's flashback he met the psychic when the psychic's daughter drowned and then came back from the dead and the guy told Ecko that he was a fraud? Maybe that's another part of the real story that the guy really didn't see it right and she's not suppose to raise hime. Whatever:mad: . I just wish Claire well!

Or maybe the psychic purposely told Claire that to get her onto that plane so she'd end up on the island for whomever is suppose to really raise Aaron to "get" him.

Yes, I always had the same idea that the psychic knew the plane was going to crash. But my doubt was that, if he could see it was going to crash, he should have also been able to see what Claire's destiny would be. So maybe she wasn't really supposed to raise him?

How could she have died in the house explosion and been in all the subsequent scenes?


I asked myself the same question and then reasked myself what Danielle asked Artz.

" Are we on the same island?"

:36: :24:

Could Claire's behavior in the cabin be related to the implant that Ethan put in her?

Could Claire's behavior in the cabin be related to the implant that Ethan put in her?

I don't get it. What do you mean?

I think she is dead too. It's hard to imagine Kate playing mommy to Aaron, knowing that his real mother is alive. So, I say she's dead.

I can see that point of view, for sure, and Claire could be dead :frown:

But I keep thinking about how guilty Jack seemed about Aaron in Eggtown - everyone figured it was related to Claire and Aaron being separated. But if Claire was dead, wouldn't Jack be happy Aaron was being raised by someone he knew and trusted? I just feel like he was that against seeing Aaron at first because Claire is still alive and he feels awful that his sister and his nephew are separated.

Also, it seems inconceivable that Claire and Aaron would be separated as long as Claire was alive - hence pointing to her maybe being dead. But after last night, we see that she is seriously not herself. So even if she isn't dead, she is in a very different place where she would let Aaron go.

I could see it going either way, I suppose, I just really hope she is still alive and she and Aaron are reunited in the end. Also, I am kind of tired of all the original survivors dying off, so I am very much hoping both Claire and Jin make it.

However, this goes, I'm convinced we will know why Jack feels the way he does and what the heck has happened to Claire before season 4 is over! That is a great comfort. I don't know what else we will know, but I am hopeful about Aaron and Claire.

I agree that Jack is freaked out by Kate raising Aaron because Claire is still alive. That again, is my opinion, my theory.

Now don't get me wrong - I don't intend to badmouth Desmond (he's my second favorite character btw) but "partially lying" about his visions is actually something we've seen him do before.

Recall Catch-22. He lied to Charlie and denied having visions of Charlie's death because he believed Penny would parachute onto the island if he convinced Charlie to attend his male bonding soirée. However, being the decent and lovable Desmond we all know, he ended up saving Charlie in that scenario at the last second.

Just saying: Desmond is certainly capable of lying re: his visions... although... he hasn't really had any for some time, has he?

Just psychedelic time-travel, that's all
:biggrin:

That's fair. I think I didn't go that way because he did "fess up", but I also agree and think that his character is not as clear to us as we would like. He could very well lie to get what he wants, i.e. Penny back. Maybe he did lie, in part. Remember, at the end, when Charlie was getting ready to go down into the water, Desmond offered to go. It was Charlie who accepted his fate and went. Same in the Looking Glass. Charlie closed the door to protect Desmond. One question I would have is why Charlie just didn't exit the room, then close the door. :)

Is it possible that Claire was alive during the jungle trek (how can a ghost nurse a baby?) but died in the night of hemorrhaging in the brain from the explosion the previous day? People can look and act normal even if the bleeding continues (but why look for medical logic on LOST)? Her transmogrification or transubstantiation or whatever could relate to her death that night.

In the cabin, she was definitely acting more like a LOST ghost than a normal, breathing person

I was sure that Claire died in the explosion. She couldn't have survived it. Everything in the house was gone except the metal frames. Remember when Mr. Ecko was talking to Remi on the island? It wasn't really Remi was it.

I don't think she died in the attack on her house - if she is dead she "died" with Christian.

Miles was looking at her funny becasue maybe he "sees" or "hears" Charlie around her or even her dad. (I think Charlie maybe because in that scene Miles had his hood on and he reminded me of Charlie when he always had the hood on.) He asks to hold Aaron because Claire trips and she does have a head wound and they've been walking in the jungle. He doesn't stop her from going with Christian becasue she says "Dad" and doesn't seem scared or frightened and goes willingly to him.

Also the pyshic Malkin says that Claire has to raise the baby:
MALKIN: This child parented by anyone else, anyone other than you -- danger surrounds this baby. . .
which makes me think maybe the island doesn't want Claire to raise the baby? Malkin doesn't see Claire as dying....

I'm torn on this one. There is evidence that Christian is alive. We have been shown that there are chemicals (spdier venom being one of them) that can make a person appear dead. We were shown that for a reason. I don't think Chrisitan was truly dead when Jack saw him the morgue. That is why his body wasn't in the coffin. Plus, his clothes were different this sigthing than the usual suit and tennis shoes. I believe Christian is projecting himself when he visits Jack (just like Walt, who is alive).

As for Claire, we have been given no evidence that she is dead. Yes, she was acting strange in the cabin, but that's not proof that she is dead. In fact, we have no idea whether the cabin is even real or if Christian or Claire were really there. However, her body after the explosion was splayed just like the dead witch in the Wizard of Oz after being squished by Dorothy's house, which made me think at the time that she was dead.

In short, the writers are doing an awesome job!!!!!

If she died in the explosion in the house, what would be the purpose of her being "alive" and trekking through the jungle with Sawyer and Miles. I think the theory of her dying while she was asleep is a good one and when she woke up she saw her dad. If she were dead in the explosion, they would have just gone on into the jungle with the baby.

I'm still sticking with her being convinced by her dad and the island to fake her death or disappearance so Aaron could be taken to safety with Kate and then ultimately returned to her. I so loved the first season episode with her backstory, so I'm hoping that the stick to that theory!

Is Claire dead? Who the &^*% knows, certainly none of us. Sure it's a 50/50 shot in guessing, but the answer has to go further than just a simple yes or no. It needs to be backed with a few "whys" as well.

Did Desmond lie? No. So how is his vision going to be explained with Claire being dead (if she is)?
Did Malkin lie? Not about everything. How is his prophecy served with a dead Claire.?
Is Locke going to tell anyone that Claire's in the cabin? Probably not. Does everyone on the Island assume Claire's dead? Probably.
If she's not dead, what is she?
If she is dead, why is she hanging with CS in Jacob's cabin? What is the purpose of her being there?

She gave me the feeling that she knew everything know. Like, "It's going to be alright,"

My other thought was that the Island needs a mother figure and a father figure, which it keeps in the cabin.

My last thought was, wow. Get cable. Or maybe a nice throw rug, something to brighten the place up.

I have feverishly rifled through this thread just now, looking for someone stating my opinion of things and I'm shocked nobody seems to share my viewpoint. So I'll just post my theory now and try and brake it down:

When the coffin was boarded onto the plane, Christian was probably in it. (I fully believe he was, though there are theories against that) When Jack finds the coffin in the caves in season 1, it's empty and nobody seems to have tempered with it.
When Eko came back to the burned out Nigerian plane in season 3, Yemi's body was missing, though he was there before.
Now, if we put these 2 observations together with a statement by Darlton, that there are different categories for visions in the writers' room and "undead" (I think that was the word they used) is one of them, and only Christian, Yemi and (jokingly ?) the black horse are part of this group, then there seems to be a pattern here.
The horse aside, we know those guys are dead and their bodies disappeared. I didn't think much of this extra category until I saw Christian - a "ghost" - holding friggin' Aaron! All of a sudden it all made sense! Their spirits are obviously roaming around freely on the island but only with the help of their dead bodies can they touch things.

So, what I'm proposing here: Claire actually died in the explosion, but her spirit did not leave her dead body yet. It wasn't time, 'cause Christian didn't have an opportunity to get to her yet. Also, Aaron had to be taken care of.
The reason Miles was so weird towards Claire was, because he could sense that she was dead, but her spirit still remained in her body after death. He didn't know what the hell was going on, because he probably never experienced that before.
When Christian's, let's call it "materialized", ghost showed up, Miles seemed to understand that she was still inside her body for a reason. So he let them go.

In conclusion: Christian and Claire are dead and can now interact with things on the island because they have control over their corpses.
Also: Christian clearly interacted with Vincent in their mobisode. And I do not believe that dog can see dead people.

And about Desmond: I stated this in another thread before and I'm sticking to it: He lied to Charlie about Claire getting on a helo, to get Charlie to sacrifice himself. Simply because it was the right thing to do.

P.S.: I hope no one posted the same thing while I was writing this. :undecide:

I just wanted to throw in that Kate raising Aaron does not necessarily mean they KNOW that Claire is dead. It just means that they THINK she is dead. Which means, she could still be alive, by their logic.

Then again, I still think she is dead, although I'm not sure which theory of when/why to go with. :biggrin:

Guys, I hated this epi for so many reasons...I did not think that I would re-watch it (which is completely odd...I always rewatch LOST episodes).

But Claire was so completely bizarre that I may rewatch it purely for that reason. She is either dead, or Smokey is possessing her. Or maybe she is in limbo, between the material realm and the spiritual realm.

Oh God...this show. ;)

I'm not sure what to think but I have to say if Claire remains on the show in this form (whatever it is), I think it is a great idea. Her character really needed another mythological hook into the show besides raising Aaron and this might just be it. This should give her more to do in the future!

Also, about Desmond's vision. He may not have lied but have been mistaken. He may have seen a woman board a helicopter with Aaron and assumed it was Claire when in fact it was Kate. Or, this vision comes to pass much later in the story. Or, something has changed and this event will never happen. If it doesn't happen, Charlie didn't sacrifice himself for nothing. What his sacrifice was for may not be obvious yet, but we know it at least got the Oceanic 6 (ie Aaron, the person he cared about most) rescued.

About the prophecy. I do not believe the writers have abandoned this. I think Aaron being raised by Kate and Jack is part of this story line. In a books/tv/filem, there would be no reason to include such a prophecy if it wasn't going to be challenged at some point for drama. I think eventually Claire and Aaron will be reunited but the prophecy will be proven correct/incorrect by what happens when he is raised by another (Kate and Jack).

After watching last night's episode, with the comment that Aaron was exactly where he needed to be, I am thinking hat Aaron needs to be removed from the Island for a period of time for some specific reason. Perhaps, to keep him safe during the freighter attack or during the Island's move (whatever that is).

Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject!

So...Sawyer has been screaming and running around carrying a dead body throughout TSoTTC?

For the record, Laura in the black lodge reminded me nothing of claire in the cabin. Claire in the cabin was uber relaxed. Laura Palmer (depending on which version you're talking about) was either screaming, or talking backwards and looked like she was in pain.

i am SO on the shelf about her death. that makes the most sense, but then it brings us the to questions, who is dead; are they already dead? and that would just be a terrible way to end the show.

So...Sawyer has been screaming and running around carrying a dead body throughout TSoTTC?
If one believes in Claire to be dead but still physically there, then essentially, yes.

I believe Claire to be dead because that is the only way she would have left Aaron, Who is going to nurse Aaron, or do they find bottles for him...

Why didn't the writers want Hugo to go in the cabin? Only thing I can think of is that they did not want him to see Claire. Why did Christian tell Locke it would be a good idea for him not to tell that he saw Claire?

The first time I watched this epi, I thought Claire looked drugged, but I rewatched it, and she simply looks like she has been "enlightened". She has knowledge of what is "supposed" to happen, or what I believe, she KNOWS what is going to happen.


And most of all, Does this mean Claire and Charlie can get back together????
OK joking on the last question....

why didn't you make this a poll? like the one last week.

i still think both Claire and Christian are alive, but 'possessed' by the spirit of the island, not
"she has been "enlightened". she didn't look too 'enlightened' to me, but more like of an evil spirit.

All the 'dead' on Lostia have left dead bodies. Christian's disappeared, (cuz i think he was never dead) and Claire did not leave one behind. If they are dead, but walking around, doesn't that make them some sort of Zombies?

I don't think zombies or dead people could 'nurse' a baby...now that's gross!

And most of all, Does this mean Claire and Charlie can get back together????
OK joking on the last question....

It actually does seem that way! together forever at last! Zombie Love!

She gave me the feeling that she knew everything know. Like, "It's going to be alright,"

My other thought was that the Island needs a mother figure and a father figure, which it keeps in the cabin.

My last thought was, wow. Get cable. Or maybe a nice throw rug, something to brighten the place up.

LMAO

I almost choked on my candy bar.

I thought Claire looked .. kind of impish. Like she was in the corner smoking a bong. Dude.. s'up.

I know, the whole zombie thing has been debunked. But I cannot think of another reason Claire would leave Aaron behind..... But I am sure I will find out.

In the 7/31/06 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/July_31%2C_2006), Damon specifically states, "When a character dies on the show, they’re dead. The only time you’ll see them again is in someone else’s flashback. So, um, we do that because we want the stakes on the island to be real—there are characters who have died who have appeared in other people’s memories." An almost identical quote about life-and-death stakes being 'real' is said in the 11/08/05 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/November_08%2C_2005).

Though I hope Claire is not dead, it seems so and I don't like it.

Emille DeRavin gets major props for this episode. She effrectively chnneled someone othe than Claire's accpeted way of being and did it so subtly that it was haunting in such brief amount of time. I can't recall another character doing such an effectie 360.

I thought Claire looked .. kind of impish. Like she was in the corner smoking a bong. Dude.. s'up.

That is way too funny!! I thought the same thing. I rewound the epi a couple of times to check out the size of Claire's pupils. Until I was reminded that it was dark in the cabin so her pupils would be dialated no matter what.....

I'm going with eSpar's theory, but with one twist. The island has the power to heal, and corrode, people's bodies. It's completely possible that it "healed" Christian and Claire's bodies from death.

I mean, if you think about it scientifically, you body is a series of cells that communicate via electric pulses via nerve endings. Fix a damaged part and turn the electric pulses back on and you've got life. There's a belief out there that bodies can be reanimated from death (think Walt Disney and Joe DiMaggio's frozen heads). All that's necessary is the body needs to be preserved long enough or not too far along in decomposing in order to be saved.

I think Claire died in that rocket attack (who wouldn't, that explosion was ridiculous). Add that to Miles being freaked out by her, and you have the undead Claire. The question I pose is what happens to your consciousness between death and undeath. What can one learn during that time?

LMAO

I almost choked on my candy bar.

I thought Claire looked .. kind of impish. Like she was in the corner smoking a bong. Dude.. s'up.


My sentiments exactly although I'd have said heroin. she was so eeffective that I wold not be surprised to lean she was a major dose of valium for that scene.

Although, I am one to believe Claire is dead....

In the 7/31/06 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/July_31%2C_2006), Damon specifically states, "When a character dies on the show, they’re dead. The only time you’ll see them again is in someone else’s flashback. So, um, we do that because we want the stakes on the island to be real—there are characters who have died who have appeared in other people’s memories." An almost identical quote about life-and-death stakes being 'real' is said in the 11/08/05 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/November_08%2C_2005).

I know, the whole zombie thing has been debunked. But I cannot think of another reason Claire would leave Aaron behind..... But I am sure I will find out.

In the 7/31/06 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/July_31%2C_2006), Damon specifically states, "When a character dies on the show, they’re dead. The only time you’ll see them again is in someone else’s flashback. So, um, we do that because we want the stakes on the island to be real—there are characters who have died who have appeared in other people’s memories." An almost identical quote about life-and-death stakes being 'real' is said in the 11/08/05 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/November_08%2C_2005).

And Claire really is dead. So there are life and death stakes. The person you saw in that room was NOT really Claire.

Her body/image was being used.

Also, TPTB lie lol... DON"T BELIEVE THEIR LIES.... they want to mislead you, it's part of the game, and it's fun. They are like Ben because they are Ben. They tell half-truths and are masters at ambivilance. I bet this show will have ALL of the things TPTB have debunked. You watch.

But the point is the stakes are real because Claire as we knew her is dead... and will never leave the island.

I wondered if I should even post quotes from TPTB. But I am trying to keep the faith that the only thing they did was tell a sort of lie about time travel. I am hoping they based this on the fact that it is not timetravel in the physical form, only in your mind.

Although, I am one to believe Claire is dead....

In the 7/31/06 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/July_31%2C_2006), Damon specifically states, "When a character dies on the show, they’re dead. The only time you’ll see them again is in someone else’s flashback. So, um, we do that because we want the stakes on the island to be real—there are characters who have died who have appeared in other people’s memories." An almost identical quote about life-and-death stakes being 'real' is said in the 11/08/05 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/November_08%2C_2005).
One oughta consider when these podcasts were made. I think those guys might have had some very vague idea of how the show could possibly end in a best case scenario but were not clear on any of the little twists and mysteries we now get from episode to episode.
I do not believe that in 2005/06, Darlton were all like "... and at one point down the road, Keamy, a mercenary who is part of Widmore's freighter crew, is gonna blow Alex's brains out right in front of her "father" Ben, who, only moments before that, admitted to have stolen her from Danielle. ... Oh yeah, and Claire is gonna die in some major explosion, but were gonna make it look like she's still alive to trick those moron fans who actually managed to stick with the show for that long."

I think that those podcast quotes most certainly reflect their intentions at the time, but things have change dramatically since then and they just might have changed their own set of rules.

I know, the whole zombie thing has been debunked. But I cannot think of another reason Claire would leave Aaron behind..... But I am sure I will find out.

In the 7/31/06 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/July_31%2C_2006), Damon specifically states, "When a character dies on the show, they’re dead. The only time you’ll see them again is in someone else’s flashback. So, um, we do that because we want the stakes on the island to be real—there are characters who have died who have appeared in other people’s memories." An almost identical quote about life-and-death stakes being 'real' is said in the 11/08/05 podcast (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/November_08%2C_2005).

Exactly what i was thinking about when i said that Claire (and Christian) is not dead, but possessed by an evil spirit. If possesed, not dead, not 'zombies'. and if they were dead, where are their bodies?

I think that those podcast quotes most certainly reflect their intentions at the time, but things have change dramatically since then and they just might have changed their own set of rules.

Don't agree with this at all. Did they say this? Would it mean ur 'theory' doesn't work if these rules still hold? "wink"

I'm being stubborn but I'm still not completely conviced that she's dead. Although there was something creepy going on. To me Claire just looked so completely relaxed like she knew something about the Island and Aaron. Like she had been let on, on a big secret. I don't know just my theory :shrug:

Exactly what i was thinking about when i said that Claire (and Christian) is not dead, but possessed by an evil spirit. If possesed, not dead, not 'zombies'. and if they were dead, where are their bodies?



Don't agree with this at all. Did they say this? Would it mean ur 'theory' doesn't work if these rules still hold? "wink"

I hate to think of Claire as being "evil" but you may be right. I still think she is "dead" but like Charlie "dead". I don't mean "dead" as in mind,body,spirit gone though. I think the Island's spirit which could be Smokey merges with the person's soul and uses their body. Ok....that does sound eerie but hopefully it makes some sense...

Maybe there are two "Smokies"....a "good" Smokey and a "bad" Smokey. Each trying to gain more "bodies and souls" for their side?

Claire is/was a very protective mother. There is no way that she could be so relaxed about not being with Aaron unless she has crossed over. Even drugs wouldn't do that to a mother...
As well, Miles made the comment, "don't bet on it".. when Claire said, after Sawyer carried her into the house, that she felt woozy, but "I'll live".
The night she died, IMHO, Miles saw her walk away with a ghost, her father, so he had no reaction to it.

I'm being stubborn but I'm still not completely conviced that she's dead. Although there was something creepy going on. To me Claire just looked so completely relaxed like she knew something about the Island and Aaron. Like she had been let on, on a big secret. I don't know just my theory :shrug:

I was thinking "Enlightened" As in Enlightenment and Liberation. In Buddhism, it is also called Nirvana. The perfect peace of the mind that is free from craving, anger and other afflictive states

Claire is Jacob. That is why Christian can speak for Jacob.

Don't agree with this at all. Did they say this? Would it mean ur 'theory' doesn't work if these rules still hold? "wink"
Of course they didn't say that. I was just thinking, they might have realized that if they broke the whole "after death only FB's & visions" rule, they could make some really cool mind-bending (or shall I say mind-f*cking?), on island interactions between the living and the dead.
You're right, my theory doesn't hold up if they're not physically there or in control of their own senses. But at the end of the day it's just a theory that, in my mind, fits together nicely with what the show has given me so far. And since it's just another theory among hundreds, I wouldn't care if it's all complete baloney. Matter of fact, I really enjoy how the show has surprised me and kept me on my toes all these years. (even when I felt that the actual story development was total BS compared to what I came up with ;))

I hate to think of Claire as being "evil" but you may be right.

Maybe there are two "Smokies"....a "good" Smokey and a "bad" Smokey. Each trying to gain more "bodies and souls" for their side?

Ha! I love it, u r bringing up another good 'ole theory! A "family of smokies", or spirits that have different abilities. some can be people, such as Yemmi, or Christian or Claire. some can be smoke, some can be other things. Papa Smokie was who we must've seen chug thru Otherville...he looked much bigger than all the past smokies we've seen before, and was a different color.

Claire sure looked evil to me, i want to really look at her make-up for that scene. they made her look very different than the sweet young thing she's always been. did you ever see her on Beast Master? it was a lot like how she looked there as a 'forest spirit'.
100%
(even when I felt that the actual story development was total BS compared to what I came up with ;))

Well at least you ADMIT that you have been making up your own versions of Lost! Likely is a lot better than a lot that we have gotten from TPTB. Is your real name "Relic"? ;)

I don't think Claire is dead, there just isn't any evidence to even support it. People saying that Miles was acting weird towards her doesn't mean she's a ghost. Miles has never been shown to "see" ghosts, he just hears them. Plus, I don't think Miles was looking at Claire anyway, I think he was more interested in Aaron.

The way she was actying in the cabin suggests that wasn't even Claire, she didn't seem to care about Aaron at all, and the Claire we know definitely cares about Aaron. Either that wasn't Claire, but just a manifestation (why the Island would choose Claire as a manifestation around Locke is beyond me) or it was Claire drugged. I'm not sure which one I'm going with, but I'm still on the side of thinking Claire isn't dead. It just seems to throw the prophecy right out the window, a prophecy that was almost treated as scripture.

Well at least you ADMIT that you have been making up your own versions of Lost! Likely is a lot better than a lot that we have gotten from TPTB. Is your real name "Relic"? ;)
Well, if I ever wanna make it as a writer, I better be able to stretch my imagination beyond the source material. :) It's just a whole lot of fun for me.
And the "Relic" thing went right over my head. So, I can probably answer with "no."


Miles has never been shown to "see" ghosts, he just hears them.I'd say he's also able to feel their presence. Not that we've ever really seen that, but it would certainly help with his profession. That in turn would explain his behavior. 'Cause I just don't see what's so special about that baby. Although he was weird about wanting to hold him for no apparent reason whatsoever. So maybe I'm totally off in this one.

I don't think Claire's dead. We know people who are alive can enter the cabin, because Locke and Ben can. I think Christian called on Claire led her to the cabin. He wanted to have a chat about Aaron, and a destiny he may have off island. But think Claire was happy because Aaron will be coming back to her (I'm still not ready to give up on Desmond's vision). And Claire' absent minded attitude could easily be explained by a concussion from the explosion and the weirdness of talking to Christian.

I don't know if she's dead, but she sure did look stoned in that cabin.
I thought she looked more like some fine southern mountain girl relaxing with some moonshine. And here I was thinking she couldn't get any hotter...

"Here's what you won't see: Globetrotters, zombies, the guy Meredith Grey didn't choose, coconut radios, Laura Palmer, Jack laughing, Desmond running naked through the jungle, the Others' annual talent show, buttons, timers, electromagnetic anomalies, Cylons, cyclones, or clones, nanobots, Captain Jack Sparrow, and time travel." -- On the Season 3 premiere

Guess he saved the zombies/laura palmers for season 4!

All signs point to DEAD. Great, now she can co$%tease Charlie in the afterlife.

Crazy Claire is like the best thing ever. I hope she's not dead.


haha! I agree. She seemed drugged (doubt that she was). She was acting the same when Ethan drugged her. Freaky. I personally think she's dead. Nobody in their right mind would follow their dead father through the jungle where Eko, Shannon and Boone were all killed, to a mystical dark moving cabin or sit there without her own child!! something's up...

It's true that we have been shown that Miles' ability has been more in the sensing/hearing of spirits, and other misc things (Micheal's name not being Kevin) but we have also been shown that the island seems to boost certain things for people as well. It would not surprise me if he could sense Claire like that.

That would explain his sudden interest in her, how he was just staring at her as she was sitting off with Aaron, yet we were kind of led to believe that the interest he showed was in something other than a spiritual way by Sawyer's reaction. He knew that explaining what he was seeing/feeling about Claire would fall on deaf ears with Sawyer so why bother, which was his exact attitude when he told him that she just 'Walked off into the jungle with someone she called 'Dad'. As for asking to hold Aaron, I can't believe that didnt strike me as odd until I saw it mentioned here! Hold cow Im getting slow. :rolleyes:

Def. a great direction in the show, and I hate to admit that I kind of get a guilty pleasure out of Miles now. Sawyer seems to have softened up, we need at least ONE snarky character :14happy:

I'd say he's also able to feel their presence. Not that we've ever really seen that, but it would certainly help with his profession. That in turn would explain his behavior. 'Cause I just don't see what's so special about that baby. Although he was weird about wanting to hold him for no apparent reason whatsoever. So maybe I'm totally off in this one.

Miles being able to "feel" ghosts wouldn't explain the looks he gave to Claire and Aaron, nor explain why he wanted to hold Aaron. Claire was visible, so if Miles was getting some "6th sense" feeling while they were around him, it doesn't mean it's because of Claire. For all he knew Sawyer could have been the reason for that feeling, plus that Island is FULL of ghosts and whispers. The weird feelings, IF he was having them, could have been caused by those.

Miles wanting to hold Aaron I think has more to do with Miles wanting to touch Aaron and seeing if he could get any better "vibes" off of him. If he was wondering if Claire was dead, I would think he would have been trying to touch her as much as he could. A hand on her shoulder here, helping her up there, brushing her hand while passing her some water...........

I need a little bit more evidence to believe that Claire is a ghost.......

Undead, just like Christian (remember they never found his body!!!)

I'm hoping that Charlie turns out to somehow be "undead," as well. Maybe Aaron returns to the island and is eventually raised by them.

and there's the Zombie season!

But really, I think there have been hints throughout that Aaron would be important to the island, that he is a special child and that there is some importance within the Lost mythology of the relationship between Christian, Aaron and Jack.

I need a little bit more evidence to believe that Claire is a ghost.......
Evidence I can't provide. It's all just unprovable theories. Which is why I'm not even gonna try and convince you of anything. Guess we all gonna have to wait till the answers air.

I'm hoping that Charlie turns out to somehow be "undead," as well.
The fact that he can be seen and (I presume) touched by other people than Hurley in his FFs certainly suggests that his presence is physically there. Like both Christian and Claire holding the baby when they are actually dead (according to my theory, of course).

The fun thing about the Charlie situation is that we can't really check and see if Charlie's body is still floating around the Looking Glass. I mean, someone could of course look for it, but we all know that's not gonna happen.
So it's not clear if he belongs in the category of "undead" along with Christian and Yemi (and Claire???). But it's certainly fun thinking about it. :grin:

If it is possible that Claire died in the explosion yet continued to walk around, could it be just as likely that she died in childbirth and has been undead all this time? With no other options, the island put her body on auto pilot to care for Aaron's needs. Now that an opportunity for him to leave the island has arrived, Claire is no longer necessary and the island is calling her to join the legions of its dead.

If it is possible that Claire died in the explosion yet continued to walk around, could it be just as likely that she died in childbirth and has been undead all this time? With no other options, the island put her body on auto pilot to care for Aaron's needs. Now that an opportunity for him to leave the island has arrived, Claire is no longer necessary and the island is calling her to join the legions of its dead.

Can a ghost breast feed a baby though?:confused: If a ghost can breast feed a baby, I don't think it woujld be classified as ghost though, lol.

At the risk of being redundant...Claire is really most sincerely dead. And scary. ;)

At the risk of being redundant...Claire is really most sincerely dead. And scary. ;)

We'll see....;)

Can a ghost breast feed a baby though?:confused: If a ghost can breast feed a baby, I don't think it woujld be classified as ghost though, lol.

I don't consider ghost and undead to be interchageable terms. Ghost refers to the spirit entity and undead is the souless flesh.

I don't consider ghost and undead to be interchageable terms. Ghost refers to the spirit entity and undead is the souless flesh.

Well, either way, can a ghost or souless undead flesh breast feed a baby?:confused:

I vote she's dead.
After the explosion, once she gets up Sawyer asked her how she was. She said something like she had a headache but 'alive'. Then Miles turns and says "I wouldn't be so sure about that". It doesn't leave much room for doubt, more if one considers the way Miles acted towards her later. She's been dead for a while now. How it is explained, well, I'm sure the writers will come up with a great idea.

Claire says "a little wobbly but I'll live." Miles says "I wouldn't be so sure about that." Now this could be Miles stating that Claire is dead or he could just be talking about their possibilities of survival. All said, I still think Claire is dead.

I am sooo with you Ripper. Claire is dead. The whole argument of a breast feeding ghost is irrelevent. She died the night Christan came and got her. I think Miles knew she would not live.....

My last thought was, wow. Get cable. Or maybe a nice throw rug, something to brighten the place up.

A rug to tie the room together, perhaps?

:wink1:

I am sooo with you Ripper. Claire is dead. The whole argument of a breast feeding ghost is irrelevent. She died the night Christan came and got her. I think Miles knew she would not live.....

Funny, but I've heard other assertions before that turned out to be incorrect <cough>Aaron IS NOT an O6 member <cough>:rolleyes:

Funny, but I've heard other assertions before that turned out to be incorrect <cough>Aaron IS NOT an O6 member <cough>:rolleyes:

True so True. I would have to use both hands and both feet to count how many times I have been certain about something, only to be proven wrong...:frown:

True so True. I would have to use both hands and both feet to count how many times I have been certain about something, only to be proven wrong...:frown:

LOL, well, I'm sure we've all been there with LOST, how can you not be? Honestly, who ever thought they would introduce FF's? They take the show in directions most fans never dreamed off, that's what makes it so good!

I got my butt kicked with Harry Potter theories too ........but I did know he was a Horcux!!! I'm still psyched about that one!(Ok, sorry for the off topic post!:biggrin: )

She`s brown bread in my opinion

I watched the epi for the 2nd time. Claire was chilling in the dark, in Jacob's cabin and she said "I'm fine...I'm with him" (Christian). OK then...she is 99% dead.

Claire is Jacob. That is why Christian can speak for Jacob.
I thought that, too - that Jacob is "everyone" - whoever he wants to be. But her facial expression is like she was in on something or learned of some really crazy info. Gotta wait to see.

i think the island is screwing her head up.. maybe she's inbetween? her demeanor changed in that cabin!

I'm chiming in for the Claire is dead side. It's awfully sad, but it explains sooooo many things.
1. She couldn't have survived that cottage explosion without a few major injuries, Island magic or not.
2. It explains why Miles was so fascinated with her on their trek.
3. It explains why she would leave the baby with Sawyer. If Christian made her to understand she was dead, she might accept that Aaron had to be left with the living. Otherwise, I can't understand why she would leave him, much less seem so okay about it.
4. It explains why she could see her dad.
5. It explains why Kate calls Aaron her son with such conviction. There's no possibility that Claire is coming back to raise him.
6. It explains Claire's ultra creepy appearance in the cabin. She certainly acted like a ghost, without earthly concerns.

But then again, if I had a dollar for every theory I was absolutely confident in, but was later shredded in just one episode . . . .

4. It explains why she could see her dad.
Well, Jack could see their dad as well...

I'm chiming in for the Claire is dead side. It's awfully sad, but it explains sooooo many things.
1. She couldn't have survived that cottage explosion without a few major injuries, Island magic or not.
2. It explains why Miles was so fascinated with her on their trek.
3. It explains why she would leave the baby with Sawyer. If Christian made her to understand she was dead, she might accept that Aaron had to be left with the living. Otherwise, I can't understand why she would leave him, much less seem so okay about it.
4. It explains why she could see her dad.
5. It explains why Kate calls Aaron her son with such conviction. There's no possibility that Claire is coming back to raise him.
6. It explains Claire's ultra creepy appearance in the cabin. She certainly acted like a ghost, without earthly concerns.

But then again, if I had a dollar for every theory I was absolutely confident in, but was later shredded in just one episode . . . .
I am laughing while hugging you...well said. Just when I think that I have figured LOST out, I find out differently. ;)

But yes, Claire was creepy...extremely creepy.

I'm chiming in for the Claire is dead side. It's awfully sad, but it explains sooooo many things.

Well thought out post, I'll see if I can play Devil's Advocate and counter your points :cool:

1. She couldn't have survived that cottage explosion without a few major injuries, Island magic or not.

Claire was clearly found by James outside and around back of the cabin. He found her lying in the grass, surrounded by clothing and the clothing line. Still would require some TV logic to survive, but then again all of these people already survived a plane crash.

2. It explains why Miles was so fascinated with her on their trek.

I tend to think Miles was more fascinated with Aaron, than Claire. Hence his asking her if she wanted him to "hold the baby" and that he "was really good with kids".

3. It explains why she would leave the baby with Sawyer. If Christian made her to understand she was dead, she might accept that Aaron had to be left with the living. Otherwise, I can't understand why she would leave him, much less seem so okay about it.

This is one that just doesn't have a clear explanation. I can't honestly think of a good reason why Claire, in her right mind, would ever leave Aaron behind, but she was shown not to be her normal self, so I have hope that it was just because she was under the Island's/Christian's influence. Sadly, I think may be one of the mysteries left for the viewer to ponder over the break. :frown:

4. It explains why she could see her dad.

Jack has seen Christian many times, so unless he's also dead, it doesn't really hold up.

5. It explains why Kate calls Aaron her son with such conviction. There's no possibility that Claire is coming back to raise him.

Kate, at the point of the last FF had been raising Aaron for 2/3yrs... I don't know a single person, male or female, that cares for an adopted child that long that wouldn't refer to a child as their's... to say nothing of the fact she has to live the lie every day, day in and day out, that he is in fact her biological child.

6. It explains Claire's ultra creepy appearance in the cabin. She certainly acted like a ghost, without earthly concerns.

She is definitely three shades of creepy in that cabin, but again I think that's just a product of her being under the influence of the Island/Christian. No real evidence to point her being dead or alive here, just the viewers interpretation at this point.

But then again, if I had a dollar for every theory I was absolutely confident in, but was later shredded in just one episode . . . .

Join the club, my friend... we have cookies! :biggrin:

Exile236...you are making me laugh...thank you. ;)

Exile236...you are making me laugh...thank you. ;)

I aim to please :biggrin:

Haha!

I know Exile, I could drive myself crazy going back and forth on this. And I hesitate to take a side, since I myself could have written your post playing Devil's Advocate to my first post. Mostly, I'm taking a side because it's fun, but also because added all together, I think these points build a fairly strong, if circumstantial case for Claire's death. So in the spirit of fun and good debate, I'll counter back (if I can).


Claire was clearly found by James outside and around back of the cabin. He found her lying in the grass, surrounded by clothing and the clothing line. Still would require some TV logic to survive, but then again all of these people already survived a plane crash.

To be fair, everything in Claire's cabin was out on the grass. That's what happens in an explosion - what's in is propelled out. I don't think that means she was outside when the explosion occurred, although that's possible.

I'll admit, though, this is not the strongest argument for her death. People have survived worse things than explosions on this island (remember the hatch implosion?!!!!). Claire could have been in the cottage when it was bombed, and still survived, because she has "work to do".

I tend to think Miles was more fascinated with Aaron, than Claire. Hence his asking her if she wanted him to "hold the baby" and that he "was really good with kids".

It's not completely clear who Miles was fascinated with, but if it was the baby, he had plenty of opportunity to check him out when Claire was sleeping and we didn't see him do that. He was definitely encouraging Claire to hand the baby over to him, but I'll argue that he may have been encouraging her to let go of an earthly attachment. He's got a personal interest in helping ghosts let go and cross over, as shown by his flashback. And if I saw a ghost carrying a live baby, I'd certainly get concerned and try to get the baby in the arms of someone living.

This is one that just doesn't have a clear explanation. I can't honestly think of a good reason why Claire, in her right mind, would ever leave Aaron behind, but she was shown not to be her normal self, so I have hope that it was just because she was under the Island's/Christian's influence. Sadly, I think may be one of the mysteries left for the viewer to ponder over the break. :frown:

I think abandoning the baby, and smiling about it in the cabin no less, is the strongest argument for Claire being dead. Realizing she has died and that she can't help her son anymore other than by giving him up, is the only way I can justify her leaving him and not appearing to have any regrets about that. Claire is always soooo weepy when separated from her child, but her demeanor after abandoning him was calm and accepting.

Jack has seen Christian many times, so unless he's also dead, it doesn't really hold up.

True, but his appearance to Jack has been quite different. Completely different outfit, different hair, etc. I think there has to be something to the dramatically different appearance he had when Claire saw him, and maybe it's a signal that she's seeing his actual spirit/body, while Jack was really just seeing Smokey disguised as Christian. Also, Claire's never been special before this. She's never seen any ghosts. Why now?

Kate, at the point of the last FF had been raising Aaron for 2/3yrs... I don't know a single person, male or female, that cares for an adopted child that long that wouldn't refer to a child as their's... to say nothing of the fact she has to live the lie every day, day in and day out, that he is in fact her biological child.

Of course people that adopt children call them their sons/daughters, but Kate's conviction about Aaron being her son seemed stronger than that. She also doesn't seem to have any guilt about keeping him and not trying to reunite him with his mother. Knowing Kate (as I believe I do - I know - I'm losing it), I think it would eat her up if she knew that Claire was still alive and separated from her son. I think it would cause her to say "my son" a little differently. With a tinge of guilt.


She is definitely three shades of creepy in that cabin, but again I think that's just a product of her being under the influence of the Island/Christian. No real evidence to point her being dead or alive here, just the viewers interpretation at this point.

Well then, how can I argue with you? I'll just say that no living person on this Island, even those completely under the spell of The Island who has ever seemed as creepy to me as Claire did in this episode. Well, maybe wet-whispering-Walt . . .

Join the club, my friend... we have cookies! :biggrin:

The question is do you have booze and aspirin? Because I have a craving for both those things anytime I try to put a theory together.

Last, I'll concede there's also a strong case for Claire being alive, and perhaps the strongest one is that I think she's dead. Less than 50% of my theories have proved correct so far. I was 99% positive that the hatch button did nothing. I wonder why I even bother!

Is Claire Dead? Yes, she died in the house explosion.
What was in the Cabin then "pretending" to be her? Jacob

Next!

;)

I guess I'm one of the only people who isn't convinced that she is dead. I don't see how any of this is proof.

I mean in this case we could say that they're all dead. They died in the crash. (which I don't believe either)

This theory just seems a bit far fetched for me. So no, I don't think Claire is dead.

claire isn't dead although i hope i'm wrong! ^^ AND claire wasn't scary at all.

She looked like a hindu-cow (if you get the "fight club" reference)!! :D
I'm really not joking here. She looked like the claire from that time when she was with ethan, where she seemed to be drugged.

It could be bad acting though. she could've tried to look mysterious and winded up looking smug instead XD

Go ahead, TPTB!! Kill all the female characters- both main and recurring.
I've a bad feeling that both Penny and Juliet are going to get killed too in the finale.

At the rate that they are going, Kate and Sun would be the only female characters remaining on the show. Yippee!!!

I initially found it weird how she knew Christian as Dad straight away, i had believed she'd rarely seen him throughout childhood

She looked strangely plump

I know Exile, I could drive myself crazy going back and forth on this. And I hesitate to take a side, since I myself could have written your post playing Devil's Advocate to my first post. Mostly, I'm taking a side because it's fun, but also because added all together, I think these points build a fairly strong, if circumstantial case for Claire's death. So in the spirit of fun and good debate, I'll counter back (if I can).

LOL sandie, exile did such a great job of counter pointing the argument for her not being dead, I won't respond to all of youe counter, counter points, just a few...;)



To be fair, everything in Claire's cabin was out on the grass. That's what happens in an explosion - what's in is propelled out. I don't think that means she was outside when the explosion occurred, although that's possible.

I'll admit, though, this is not the strongest argument for her death. People have survived worse things than explosions on this island (remember the hatch implosion?!!!!). Claire could have been in the cottage when it was bombed, and still survived, because she has "work to do".

Yes, she could very well have been outside when the explosion occured, but I doubt she would hvave been hanging her clothers, etc with all the gunfire going on. More than likely she probably heard Sawyer yelling and walked out her back door, if she was outside of course.

Claire surviving the explosion is no sillier than Sawyer using a picket fence and a picnic table as a shield;)



It's not completely clear who Miles was fascinated with, but if it was the baby, he had plenty of opportunity to check him out when Claire was sleeping and we didn't see him do that. He was definitely encouraging Claire to hand the baby over to him, but I'll argue that he may have been encouraging her to let go of an earthly attachment. He's got a personal interest in helping ghosts let go and cross over, as shown by his flashback. And if I saw a ghost carrying a live baby, I'd certainly get concerned and try to get the baby in the arms of someone living.

I'm on the side that Miles was interested in Aaron. The reason he didn't investigate Aaron at night was bevause if a stranger disturbs a baby, especially if they are sleeping they will cry. And if Miles was so concerned with getting Aaron out of "ghost" Claire's hands, did he honestlt think Claire would hand Aaron to him? If he was so concerned, he should have suggested Sawyer take the baby from Claire.



I think abandoning the baby, and smiling about it in the cabin no less, is the strongest argument for Claire being dead. Realizing she has died and that she can't help her son anymore other than by giving him up, is the only way I can justify her leaving him and not appearing to have any regrets about that. Claire is always soooo weepy when separated from her child, but her demeanor after abandoning him was calm and accepting.

If Claire was a ghost, I don't think she would be acting all trippy like she was, so I would think she would still have shown some compassion on her face in regards to Aaron, but it appeared that she didn't care at all. There just didn't seem to be any compassion, even for Locke, just jubilation at being in the cabin.



True, but his appearance to Jack has been quite different. Completely different outfit, different hair, etc. I think there has to be something to the dramatically different appearance he had when Claire saw him, and maybe it's a signal that she's seeing his actual spirit/body, while Jack was really just seeing Smokey disguised as Christian. Also, Claire's never been special before this. She's never seen any ghosts. Why now?

Same reason Locke saw Christian in different clothes than Jack. Hurley also saw Christian......

Christian wearing different clothes is a good question, the biggest thing is he wasn't wearing his white shoes, so was this the Christian that Jack was seeing? I don't think so, but that discussion is for another thread.



Of course people that adopt children call them their sons/daughters, but Kate's conviction about Aaron being her son seemed stronger than that. She also doesn't seem to have any guilt about keeping him and not trying to reunite him with his mother. Knowing Kate (as I believe I do - I know - I'm losing it), I think it would eat her up if she knew that Claire was still alive and separated from her son. I think it would cause her to say "my son" a little differently. With a tinge of guilt.

We are seeing how Kate is acting at least 2 years later, so yes attachment has set in. Aaron is calling Kate mommy, so in actuality, Aaron is her son, so to be saying "my son" is unerstandable. Strange, yes, but understandable. Kate's acting different in the FF's anyway, when has she been able to accept the stay-at-home mom/domestic wife lifestyle? Also, we haven't seen how Kate or the rest of the O6 have acted around Aaron as soon as they get off the Island, so it's possible Kate wasn't as definitve in calling Aaron her son then.


There just isn't any strong, or even remotely strong evidence that Claire is dead, just suggestions, that can be explained away fairly easily. I think that's why lots of theories get debunked is because people make these theories on rather vague or ambiguous suggestions, but hey what can we do, we're only given so much information.:biggrin:

When I rewatched last night, there was actually a comment made by "Christian" that I can't believe has been brought up on here as it's also another suggestion that Claire may be dead. I wasn't sure if I should post it since it's an argument against my thinking but I figured "why not?" since this is a fun debate so......Christian said something like "Aaron doesn't belong here". Here where? In the cabin, or on another level of existence?

Last, I'll concede there's also a strong case for Claire being alive, and perhaps the strongest one is that I think she's dead. Less than 50% of my theories have proved correct so far. I was 99% positive that the hatch button did nothing. I wonder why I even bother!

Because it's so much fun!!!

Hi Todd!!! I am one of those who believe Claire is "dead" having "died" in the explosion or more likely that night in her sleep. I also believe Christian is "dead". But you made a point above that has me thinking....you said Claire even as "ghost" would still care about Aaron...that she would not seem so smug and uncaring.
I think that the Claire and the Christian we saw in the cabin are being used by an evil force on the Island. I think there a two opposing forces...maybe two Smokies/Twins...one good and one evil.
Can both Smokies ,the good and bad twins both manifest or inhabit the dead?

Claire reminds me of Alice ..."Alice in Wonderland". She may have gone through the rabbit hole or "Through the Looking Glass".... a reversed mirror image,even.
I just thought of something didn't Alice follow the White Rabbit(Christian)?

I think that the Claire and the Christian we saw in the cabin are being used by an evil force on the Island. I think there a two opposing forces...maybe two Smokies/Twins...one good and one evil.
Can both Smokies ,the good and bad twins both manifest or inhabit the dead?

Claire reminds me of Alice ..."Alice in Wonderland". She may have gone through the rabbit hole or "Through the Looking Glass".... a reversed mirror image,even.
I just thought of something didn't Alice follow the White Rabbit(Christian)?
Love the Alice allusions...

When thinking about 2 Smokies...good/bad twin smokies...go back and watch "The 23rd Psalm"...and look at Smokey as he/she/it/they retreat from Eko...there is a white/grey inner being/soul/whatever inside the black cloud...is that Jacob?

So we are thinking Christian hijacked Jacob's cabin??

Love the Alice allusions...

When thinking about 2 Smokies...good/bad twin smokies...go back and watch "The 23rd Psalm"...and look at Smokey as he/she/it/they retreat from Eko...there is a white/grey inner being/soul/whatever inside the black cloud...is that Jacob?

Tabby, I have seen that!! I never made the connection to Jacob! You could be right! Wasn't there also a scne in the Wizard of Oz where you can see just the Wizard's face in a cloud of something? Not really a cloud but..I can't remember now.:undecide:

Also, in "White Rabbit" there is scene where Christian is talking with Jack and there is whitish/grey smoke around him.

Maybe Christian in his white shoes is Good Smokey and the other Christian in the striped shirt is Bad Smokey?!

I don't think she's dead, there's something mysterious going on but as soon as Aaron is off the island Claire will snap out of it and then she'll be wanting her baby back!

I don't know if she is dead, but based on last episode and the interaction with Miles, and what I have read on the boards I am leaning that way...but let me say that I completely agree with everyone who said that she was totally and completely CREEPY! Dead or alive something has changed with Claire!


I agree - the way Miles was looking at her, as if he sensed she wasn't really alive, it was also kind of spooky. I think she is dead but might have been able to stay in her body for some reason that only the island knows.

I thought at first when people were mentioning this before cabin fever that they were way off base, but I don't think that's the case anymore. I think that she may really be dead. She didn't seem like the normal Claire, she seemed like she was in on everything, like she knew the secrets of the island. She just seemed so opposite from the Claire we know.