We know it wasn't the knife. It seemed like to me Alpert was hoping he would pick the Book of Laws. Was some of that stuff from the Black Rock?

We know it wasn't the knife. It seemed like to me Alpert was hoping he would pick the Book of Laws. Was some of that stuff from the Black Rock?

I think it was the knife and that confirmed to richard that everything that is going down, was indeed going to go down leading to the conflict now...no way to change it, it's inevitable since you can run over Locke with a car and throw him out of an 8 story window and he just don't die man...inevitability...(<>..<>)

It was totally the knife. The second he asked Locke to identify the correct item, I said to the person I was watching with, "It's the knife."

I think it was the knife. What were the other objects? One was a compass, I think. Was there sand in the tubes? Maybe it was sand from the island?

The way it was edited it looked like Halpert wanted him to pick the book. Whether he 'should' have picked the book or not is another question. Picking the knife certainly upset Halpert, whether he was upset because he didn't take the book or because by picking the knife John was making a prediction, as someone above said, who knows?

If I understand the test correctly, and I probably don't, shouldn't the item belong to the person Locke is possibly the reincarnation of?

I think it was the knife and that confirmed to richard that everything that is going down, was indeed going to go down leading to the conflict now...no way to change it, it's inevitable since you can run over Locke with a car and throw him out of an 8 story window and he just don't die man...inevitability...(<>..<>)
Interesting. I agree, it probably was the knife. Good analysis. I bet Alpert must know of several possible futures for the island and by Locke picking the knife it predestined the one that Alpert feared the most.

I think it was the book. Wasn't John Locke a philosopher according to Wikki?

Personally, I don't know if there was only one correct answer there. I think Alpert didn't want Locke to choose the knife because of what we see later in the episode, and in his other episodes. We see someone seeking approval and purpose, while also trying to be in control, a hero. In the scene with his guidance counselor, Locke doesn't want to hear about being a scientist, he wants to go the cool, tough route. By choosing the knife, that to me said he was doing the same at that point as well.

Remember, the show always likes to show contrasts, good vs. evil, science vs. faith. Abbadon seemed to want Locke to go the hero route, taking his walkabout, while Alpert seemed upset when Locke chose a weapon over something less threatening. Maybe he saw that his side was losing the John Locke battle and chose to back off. What will be interesting is finding out which side was right.

If I understand the test correctly, and I probably don't, shouldn't the item belong to the person Locke is possibly the reincarnation of?
If it had anything to do with reincarnation yes, but we don't know that it does for sure.

The test could have been to do with Locke foretelling something by what he picked, or it could have been that there was a right answer and Locke got it wrong because he didn't pick the book. It's all interesting tho.

Well, I first thought "the knife" and then when RA looked disappointed he chose it I thought, "Okay, NOT the knife."

I thought perhaps Locke was asserting his own will over his destiny. He didn't want to be the science nerd he wanted to be the Big Hunter. And "the talk" he was given by his teacher made a lot of sense.

Howver, perhaps his destiny is to be a Hunter/Leader

I think it was the knife and that confirmed to richard that everything that is going down, was indeed going to go down leading to the conflict now...no way to change it, it's inevitable since you can run over Locke with a car and throw him out of an 8 story window and he just don't die man...inevitability...(<>..<>)

I dont think that was it

He picked the compass and the jar --which Albert thought were correct and he was hoping John would also recognize the book, However Locke recognized the knife too--which was obviously his knife. The problem was Richard must have not know about Johns knives

It seems that later Richard DID realize the knife was also right and thats why he tried to recruit John when was a teenager.

So the question was not which ITEM....it was which ITEMS

Any chance that the compass was the same compass that appeared in Ubisoft's Lost video game Via Domus? I do not know if I should characterize this as a spoiler or not but I will play it safe. For those that did not play Ubisoft's game...

Locke leads the your character to a dead corpse in the jungle that has a compass on the body. The words Via Domus are enscribed on the Compass. Based upon my memory, Locke's character goes onto explain that the words are Latin for the "way home" and the compass will play a significant role in saving your life.

Also, any ideas as to what was in the small jar? My initial thought was that it was sand from the beach but does anybody have any other theories?

It seemed to me that Alpert was disappointed because John, like Ben, had the potential to be a servant of the island. Locke seemed to consider the book and went for the knife instead, eschewing his destiny. I think the items Locke was meant to choose were of the island, the rest just to confuse. (and because I can't resist further geekery, "He chose poorly")

What I took away from the flashbacks was that for almost his whole life the island had been attempting to summon Locke, but at every opportunity he went the other way. It took some manipulation by Abbadon to get Locke to the island. And perhaps this is for a different thread, but it seems that 815 was destined to crash. I wonder if John was the only one it was meant to bring.

If I understand the test correctly, and I probably don't, shouldn't the item belong to the person Locke is possibly the reincarnation of?

Correct or not, you interpreted the context of the scene like I did -- as a test to see if the child (Locke) was truly the incarnation of a sacred lama.

It would be stupid to dump out a kid's own favorite toys amid random junk and ask him to "figure out" what was his. The choices would be obvious. Instead, Locke was expected to determine what was "his" aka the lama's whose soul had moved on to a new vessel. If a "chosen" young subject fails to pick that which belonged to "him" in his past life, he is NOT the reincarnated holy man being sought! [QED!]

Here is the story behind the Tibetan Buddhists' belief in finding the reborn lama:

Tibetan Buddhists believe that the Dalai Lamas form an unbroken lineage of reborn incarnations of the bodhisattva of compassion, which stretches back to the birth of the 1st Dalai Lama in 1391 AD.

Upon the death of the Dalai Lama, his monks institute a search for the Lama's reincarnation, or yangsi, a small child. Familiarity with the possessions of the previous Dalai Lama is considered the main sign of the reincarnation. The search for the reincarnation typically requires a few years. The reincarnation is then brought to Lhasa to be trained by the other Lamas.

This is well illustrated in the 6-volume graphic novel "The White Lama" by genius Chilean eccentric/former filmmaker Alejandro Jodorowsky ["Santa Sangre"; "The Holy Mountain"; "El Topo"] -- or alternately in FOX-TV's "King of the Hill" episode #78, "He's Not Heavy, He's My Buddha", in which a group of Tibetan monks suspects that Bobby Hill might be the reincarnation of the Lama Sanglug. Bobby enjoys getting caught up in the excitement, until he and Connie Souphanousinphone learn that Lamas are not allowed to have girlfriends.

GLOSSARY: [it is important to not confuse these terms]:

1) Bodhisattva: Enlightened, compassionate being foregoing Nirvana to aid others.

2) Dharma Initiative: Buncha dead guys in a pit on LOST island.

3) BodhiDharma: Indian philosopher and missionary: founder of what was later called "Zen" in Japan.

4) Body Armor: The cool tin can that Iron Man flies around in!

- mnw

Locke in "Further Instructions" wanted to be a "hunter" as opposed to a "farmer" in his flashback

IMO, the knife and comic book were tied together. He wasn't choosing the knife, he was choosing booth.

Also, Locke introduced himself to the other losties way back in season 1 with all his knives.

did anyone else think that the sand like thing in the jar was the thing surrounding jacobs cabin and not sand from the isand? maybe im blind but that was the first thing that came to my mind

I'm trying to remember which one my grandma said I picked... Oh, that's right, I'm special.:p I know this is a ritual for choosing the next Dalailama, but I grew up in Romania and I think there it just passed for fun of the "See if the baby can poke her eyes out with the scissors" variety. I don't think they still do this test much outside of remote villages, but from what my elders tell me, it failed to predict both my brother's destiny (he picked the scissors... he's a math teacher now) and my parents'. Seeing Richard so disappointed actually made me smile because of that. :lol2:

Also, any ideas as to what was in the small jar? My initial thought was that it was sand from the beach but does anybody have any other theories?
How about John's ashes from after he dies?

Correct or not, you interpreted the context of the scene like I did -- as a test to see if the child (Locke) was truly the incarnation of a sacred lama.

Exactly right. That was an blatant nod to Tibetian Buddhist tulku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulku) tradition. As a side note, there are other tulkus than just the Dalai Lama. Those that can, choose reincarnation through a willing and conscious act in their previous incarnation, to further serve their Bodhisattva vows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow).

The question is who was the person that Richard thought Locke might be the reincarnation of? I guess the original leader of the others.

I was waiting for Locke to choose his finger, like in the movie Willow. LINGER LONGER!!!

I don't understand why Richard left him there.
Would he have taken John with him if he picked a different item?

Then we see as a teen John blows it again by refusing to attend the science camp.

The jar looked like pepper to me, but I have no idea what it would mean.

"did anyone else think that the sand like thing in the jar was the thing surrounding jacobs cabin and not sand from the isand? maybe im blind but that was the first thing that came to my mind"

I agree with you kratos. That's precisely what I thought.

Anyone think these tests, science camps, walkabout tours may be the "rules" for recruiting? Locke seems to be a gamepiece for tipping the balance for either side, like a piece on the Backgammon board that Richard noticed.

Team Abaddon/Widmore and Team Richard/Ben can't come out and recruit Locke directly. They need to use indirect persuasion and tests.

By choosing the knife, Locke was leaning towards team Widmore. That's why Richard left and figured he'd try something else later.

Richard really did look disappointed when he left - I think he wanted Locke to pick the sand vile - sand from the Island - the Island that rightfully Locke should guard and defend. I do think that was Locke's knife (maybe), but the TRUE John Locke cares more for the Island than he does for his knife.

If that makes any sense?! :undecide:

I thought the comic book could be associated with Hurley. Ben said that Hurley is special as well...

I think it was the knife and that confirmed to richard that everything that is going down, was indeed going to go down leading to the conflict now...no way to change it, it's inevitable since you can run over Locke with a car and throw him out of an 8 story window and he just don't die man...inevitability...(<>..<>)

I like the idea.

I don't think this has anything to do with reincarnation. I think this is about all time existing at the same time like in Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughter House Five.

I agree that Locke was supposed to choose the sand because it was a representation of the Island and in the "future" John owns the island so to speak.

K, so I'm overwhelmingly convinced that Richard Alpert was doing a lama-esque "reincarnation test" on Locke. Besides the similarities mentioned in previous posts, On the season three DVD commentary for "The Man Behind the Curtain," it is revealed that
"Richard Alpert was conceived as the "Panchen Lama" of the Others. (That would make Ben the "Dalai Lama.") Alpert's role is to pick the next Dalai. Ben's role would be to pick the next Panchen, should the need arise. This keeps the two in a sort of balanced power relationship. They are allies, yet they have some measure of control over the other should one get out of hand."

K, so I'm overwhelmingly convinced that Richard Alpert was doing a lama-esque "reincarnation test" on Locke. Besides the similarities mentioned in previous posts, On the season three DVD commentary for "The Man Behind the Curtain," it is revealed that
"Richard Alpert was conceived as the "Panchen Lama" of the Others. (That would make Ben the "Dalai Lama.") Alpert's role is to pick the next Dalai. Ben's role would be to pick the next Panchen, should the need arise. This keeps the two in a sort of balanced power relationship. They are allies, yet they have some measure of control over the other should one get out of hand."

That makes sense, especially considering Ben's comment that sometimes he's in charge.

Lots of good theories here, but I like the theory that Richard is the one responsible for searching and designating the next island leader. Walt was given tests when he was kidnapped because Richard and the Others knew that Ben was dying so they were actively looking for the new leader. Ben didn't want to admit that his tenure was over, so he let Michael take Walt away. He also tried to kill John when he realized the island was choosing him.

Also makes a lot of sense about the control thing. Ben likely fell out of favor by the island because he tried to manipulate (ie, control) too much. John hasn't proven yet to the island that he is ready, so one minute he seems like the chosen one, another minute...not so much.

I think the item that belonged to locke was the comic book...and that Alpert placed the knife on top of it on purpose in order to force Locke to pick up the knife....possibly introducing a train of thought or idea to him, in order to lead him to the island.

Finally, someone else who read slaughterhouse five. I think that is exactly it. All time exists at once. Why Richard doesn't age at all points in time I haven't figured out but, Billy Pilgrim died several times and experienced what it was like to be dead until he traveled in time again that is why Charlie was dead and with Hurley at the same time and Why Locke should know what items belong to him. Now to the point. Locke's possessions are:

The sand (the island)
The Compass
The Comic Book

I think the knife was put on top of the comic for misdirection and since young Locke chose poorly and was not ready so to speak.

This could also be argued, from a scientific point of view, that the testing Richard performs is used as a means through which to establish John's early life motivators.

Richard obviously knew John was special (and we still don't know who John's Father was, which might have further connections) And was in a process to recruit him. The item choice could quite easily be a test of "reincarnation" to see if they are the right person, but they could also be a means of determining what path John will be taking, and what will motivate him along that path.

Each of the items seemed to have a thematic significance, or stood as a metaphor (even a blatant metaphor) for certain personality traits that would manifest in the later John. The impression I got from this scene was not as much that Richard was hoping Locke would be the right person, as much as he hoped that John would pick the items that would best suit a strong leader.

I'm going to go with my best guess as to the symbolic nature of each item. This can be supplemented with any of the hundreds of interpretations available.


Baseball mitt - I think the Baseball mitt represented both athleticism and leisure activity. The archetype of the team player, out to have fun and compete.

Comic book - I feel that this represents entertainment media, and fantasy. It is also worth noting that Walt had a comic book on the Island that he enjoyed (before Mike torched it)

Book Of Law - The most significant of the items not chosen, this is fairly self explanatory. Wikipedia's entry says that it can be summed to the following sentences:
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"
"Love is the law, love under will" Sand - I think it's fair to assume that the sand represented the Island. This was the first thing John grabbed, and he did so without much hesitation.

Compass - The compass represents direction, finding, and purpose. It can also be attributed to fate, or to having a "path" to follow.

Knife - "The knife signifies severence, aggression, death, sacrifice, division, or liberation. In Christianity, it represents martyrdom. A base, secret weapon. Connotes revenge and sudden defense, often hidden, concealed. Psychology refers to it as the instinctive forces of man." -UMichigan Symbol Dictionary

---

I think from this interpretation, Richards reactions and hopes are clear. He is relieved to see that John, is in fact, part of the Island. He is happy to know that John favors the compass, so that he can find the Island (or his path that will take him to the island) But instead of taking the Book of Law, which would signify him as a fair, just, and strong leader, John takes the knife, symbolizing that his leadership will not be one of peaceful stasis, but of war, aggression, sacrifice, death, and hardship.

That was how I read the whole scene, not necessarily as a reincarnation ritual as a pre-screening test to see who John really was.

I think both this, and the Lama interpretation are valid, and it comes back down to whether you view the show through the lens of science, or faith.

think back to season one.

Although Locke had knives, they looked very different then the one alpert placed on the table.

The Item that was certainly Lockes, was the compass. In season one, Locke gave sayid his COMPASS which looked curiously similar to the on alpert had if i'm not mistaken. Locke even told sayid "he had no use for it anymore"

Someone made this post over my thread:
http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1882038&postcount=11

Just check the sismilarities...

I think from this interpretation, Richards reactions and hopes are clear. He is relieved to see that John, is in fact, part of the Island. He is happy to know that John favors the compass, so that he can find the Island (or his path that will take him to the island) But instead of taking the Book of Law, which would signify him as a fair, just, and strong leader, John takes the knife, symbolizing that his leadership will not be one of peaceful stasis, but of war, aggression, sacrifice, death, and hardship.

That was how I read the whole scene, not necessarily as a reincarnation ritual as a pre-screening test to see who John really was.

I think both this, and the Lama interpretation are valid, and it comes back down to whether you view the show through the lens of science, or faith.


This is spot on, I'd say. The close-up shot on the Book of Laws as John was choosing was an indication, I think, that Alpert expected John to choose the book rather than the knife.

This could also be argued, from a scientific point of view, that the testing Richard performs is used as a means through which to establish John's early life motivators.

Richard obviously knew John was special (and we still don't know who John's Father was, which might have further connections) And was in a process to recruit him. The item choice could quite easily be a test of "reincarnation" to see if they are the right person, but they could also be a means of determining what path John will be taking, and what will motivate him along that path.

Each of the items seemed to have a thematic significance, or stood as a metaphor (even a blatant metaphor) for certain personality traits that would manifest in the later John. The impression I got from this scene was not as much that Richard was hoping Locke would be the right person, as much as he hoped that John would pick the items that would best suit a strong leader.

I'm going to go with my best guess as to the symbolic nature of each item. This can be supplemented with any of the hundreds of interpretations available.


Baseball mitt - I think the Baseball mitt represented both athleticism and leisure activity. The archetype of the team player, out to have fun and compete.

Comic book - I feel that this represents entertainment media, and fantasy. It is also worth noting that Walt had a comic book on the Island that he enjoyed (before Mike torched it)

Book Of Law - The most significant of the items not chosen, this is fairly self explanatory. Wikipedia's entry says that it can be summed to the following sentences:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"
"Love is the law, love under will"Sand - I think it's fair to assume that the sand represented the Island. This was the first thing John grabbed, and he did so without much hesitation.

Compass - The compass represents direction, finding, and purpose. It can also be attributed to fate, or to having a "path" to follow.

Knife - "The knife signifies severence, aggression, death, sacrifice, division, or liberation. In Christianity, it represents martyrdom. A base, secret weapon. Connotes revenge and sudden defense, often hidden, concealed. Psychology refers to it as the instinctive forces of man." -UMichigan Symbol Dictionary

---

I think from this interpretation, Richards reactions and hopes are clear. He is relieved to see that John, is in fact, part of the Island. He is happy to know that John favors the compass, so that he can find the Island (or his path that will take him to the island) But instead of taking the Book of Law, which would signify him as a fair, just, and strong leader, John takes the knife, symbolizing that his leadership will not be one of peaceful stasis, but of war, aggression, sacrifice, death, and hardship.

That was how I read the whole scene, not necessarily as a reincarnation ritual as a pre-screening test to see who John really was.

I think both this, and the Lama interpretation are valid, and it comes back down to whether you view the show through the lens of science, or faith.

This makes some sense, but I can't get away from the fact that Richard seemed to emphasize that John needed to pick the items that belonged to him ALREADY, NOW. As someone else pointed out, it would not make any sense to show a child things that the child already owned (in his current life); the choices would be clear.
Plus all the items, with the exception of the vial of sand, would have some automatic meaning to the young John, and by that I mean they are easily recognizable. The vial of sand would not have any symbolic meaning to John and he would therefore be alot less inclined to choose it over the items presented. However, to a reincarnated soul (of Jacob?) the vial of sand (either from the island or from around the cabin) would have great significance and thus young John would be drawn to it, though he probably would not understand why.

It seemed to me that Alpert was disappointed because John, like Ben, had the potential to be a servant of the island. Locke seemed to consider the book and went for the knife instead, eschewing his destiny. I think the items Locke was meant to choose were of the island, the rest just to confuse. (and because I can't resist further geekery, "He chose poorly")

What I took away from the flashbacks was that for almost his whole life the island had been attempting to summon Locke, but at every opportunity he went the other way. It took some manipulation by Abbadon to get Locke to the island. And perhaps this is for a different thread, but it seems that 815 was destined to crash. I wonder if John was the only one it was meant to bring.

"He chose poorly" Love it! Can't wait for the new movie!

Anyway, back to LOST geekery...

Did it seem to anyone else that the way in which the objects were laid out seemed to try to deter Locke from choosing the knife? The comic book and the Book of Laws were both facing him so he could read them, the compass was open, but the knife was placed with the blade pointing towards Locke and the handle pointing towards Alpert. It seems like he was trying to deter him by placing the handle away from him. Anyone else, or am I grasping at straws?

I wonder if that was the knife he used to kill Naomi? Does anyone have screen caps of each?

I don't think it had anything to do with reincarnation of one person in another.

I think Richard came back to meet Locke as a child to see if his conciousness has any memory of the future.

It's also possible that Abbadon and Richard are actually working together. They both seem to want the same thing: Locke on the island.

I wonder if that was the knife he used to kill Naomi? Does anyone have screen caps of each?

Definitely not the same knife.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/drummergirl22/naomiknife.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/drummergirl22/411knife.jpg

The one he put in Naomi's back doesn't look as old. And the handles are different.

I think it is a reincarnation test, because:

In their latest podcast Darlton say that this epi would have a Buddhist / Eastern religion slant, and specifically talk about the search for the reincarnated Dali Lama.

Maybe we are going about this all wrong. Perhaps we should be thinking about whom Locke is the incarnation OF (Ben? Widmore?) and which of the items might belong to THEM.

I think the knife DID belong to Locke, but Richard didn't like what it confirmed, that Locke was destined to be on the other side of the battle.
Lots of good theories here, but I like the theory that Richard is the one responsible for searching and designating the next island leader. Walt was given tests when he was kidnapped because Richard and the Others knew that Ben was dying so they were actively looking for the new leader. Ben didn't want to admit that his tenure was over, so he let Michael take Walt away. He also tried to kill John when he realized the island was choosing him.
Really good points. I suspect Ben might have realized that both Locke and Walt would be his undoing, as they would be instrumental to his downfall. Remember that Walt was "more than [the Others] had bargained for."

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderAlienControl http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreenLight/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1880630#post1880630)
I think it was the knife and that confirmed to richard that everything that is going down, was indeed going to go down leading to the conflict now...no way to change it, it's inevitable since you can run over Locke with a car and throw him out of an 8 story window and he just don't die man...inevitability...(<>..<>)

Interesting. I agree, it probably was the knife. Good analysis. I bet Alpert must know of several possible futures for the island and by Locke picking the knife it predestined the one that Alpert feared the most.
I totally agree with these posts and said basically the same thing in another thread. I think that whatever Locke picked was representative of a certain destiny that involved the Island. The knife probably represented one that was about war, etc.

I thought this was what was going on because my sister has two friends who are sisters, who are Asian and both of them semi-recently had babies. When the babies are one year old, the family puts four or five objects in front of them and waits for the baby to pick up the one that it's most drawn to. Whatever it ends up picking, and they WAIT until it finally picks up one, represents what kind of life that the kid will have...what he'll be like in the future, etc...

I thought this was what was going on because my sister has two friends who are sisters, who are Asian and both of them semi-recently had babies. When the babies are one year old, the family puts four or five objects in front of them and waits for the baby to pick up the one that it's most drawn to. Whatever it ends up picking, and they WAIT until it finally picks up one, represents what kind of life that the kid will have...what he'll be like in the future, etc...

I didn't realize it was such a widespread practice. Like I said, they do that in Eastern Europe as well. Or used to do it anyway (I really need to call my grandma to ask what I picked)... Somehow, I don't think the anthropology fits anymore in the modern world (financial risk assesment and PR and such... wonder what you'd need to pick up for those...) I agree with jenny that Richard might have been displeased because Locke was on the wrong side of the fence.

On another thread, so very clever person has pointed out the scene in which Eko tells Locke the story about Josiah and the Book of Law. He then gives Locke the bible with the filmstrip inside.

So, if Alpert is looking for some sign that John "remembers" the future, he should have remembered the book. :eek2:

I wonder if that was the knife he used to kill Naomi? Does anyone have screen caps of each?

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1300-1987.html (in Naomi's back)

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1403-123.html (on the table)

They don't look the same to me.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1300-1987.html (in Naomi's back)

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1403-123.html (on the table)

They don't look the same to me.
I don't know. They don't look dissimilar enough to say they are not the same. They could be the same knife with 50 years difference in age.

The Book of Laws is a catch-all for all worldly doctrines and beliefs. This includes all Constitutional Laws, all Religions, and all Laws of Science and Math, past, present and future. (Was this a correct choice? No simply because many of these “laws” contradict one another, making them matter of opinion, and thus mortal).

The vial of sand represent The Flesh. The mortal body you will walk with through life. Ashes to ashes, sand to sand. (This was a correct choice. You get one vessel).

The comic book represents Entertainment. Life is not fair. No one promised you would enjoy this. (This is an incorrect choice. There is no Truth to entertainment, only diversion).

The compass represents the gift of Life. No guarantees, of course. But if you are reading the compass, at least you are somewhere. (This was a correct choice. You get Life).

The knife represents Free Will. (This was in incorrect choice for Locke and where he failed the test). By taking the knife, Locke believes he has free will. Taken with Ben’s quote, “Destiny is a fickle bitch,” it is apparent that Life for our Losties is predetermined.

Let's say for a moment that Locke is the reicarnartion/temporal reiteration/aspect/whatever of some figure from the Island's past/future/when-the-Hell-ever. Who is that person originally? Jacob? Some crew member of the Black Rock?

It seems the items that Richard wanted Locke to pick were much older than the other objects. The knife and sand vial looked antiquated, while the comic book and the glove couldn't have been that old. My current crackpot theory is that those are Black Rock items. I also believe that Widmore, Locke, maybe Abaddon, and maybe even Ben were all on the Black Rock somehow. I don't know if these guys are reincarnations of the original crew memebers or simply unstuck in time.

Maybe just part of me wants to see a bad-*** flashback episode with those guys on a 19th-century sailing vessel. Locke as a sea-farer would be the s**t! Ben as cabin boy?

"did anyone else think that the sand like thing in the jar was the thing surrounding jacobs cabin and not sand from the isand? maybe im blind but that was the first thing that came to my mind"

I agree with you kratos. That's precisely what I thought.


whew, glad to see im not alone lol

The sand in the jar reminded me more of the sand line near Jacob's cabin then sand from the beach.

Edit: that will teach me to finish reading the thread before posting.

The sand in the jar reminded me more of the sand line near Jacob's cabin then sand from the beach.

Edit: that will teach me to finish reading the thread before posting.

lol, im pretty sure wth threads this big a lot of people tend to do the same thing

I think the knife DID belong to Locke, but Richard didn't like what it confirmed, that Locke was destined to be on the other side of the battle.

I didn't realize it was such a widespread practice. Like I said, they do that in Eastern Europe as well. Or used to do it anyway (I really need to call my grandma to ask what I picked)... Somehow, I don't think the anthropology fits anymore in the modern world (financial risk assesment and PR and such... wonder what you'd need to pick up for those...) I agree with jenny that Richard might have been displeased because Locke was on the wrong side of the fence.Yes, I agree with jenny and Claudia here. I think that what we're all saying is that what Locke picked was an indication of his future (and the Island's future, as a result).

If this analysis is true, does that mean the Richard Alpert and Locke are now on opposite sides of the battle?

Does this mean that Richard Alpert is on the opposite side of the CS and the Claire (don't think that it was really either one of them in the Cabin, just their bodies with some other souls inhabiting them)?

And, if I remember the story correctly, one of the items in the story that I told was a dollar bill and that represented a life dealing with financial things...

I got the impression that Locke picked the compass, the sand(?) vial, AND the knife.

It sounded - to me - like Richard said "which items already belong to you?" plural...

Richard beamed when Locke selected the vial and the compass but was visibly upset by the knife. I think Doc Jensen was dead on when he said Locke grasped that knife like a sword. Apparently Richard was looking more for a nerd (Ben) than a wanna-be knight-warrior.
The question, then, is ~ Did Richard make the right choice, or did he settle?~

We know it wasn't the knife. It seemed like to me Alpert was hoping he would pick the Book of Laws. Was some of that stuff from the Black Rock?

I'm not so sure--I think it was the knife.. The knife is very important in a 'walk-a-bout', and a walk about is a huge feature of John's story arc-- a man of faith, who's lost faith, and needs to go on a journey to reclaim it.

Also, I think Alpert feined his verdict, and that's why Alpert/Milletos continued to be interested in John, despite his ostensible test failure.

What's the point, if Alpert was wanting Locke to choose the knife, in acting disappointed just for his sake? He's just a kid. Occam's razor and all... I think the knife was the wrong choice.

I think Locke's been fighting his destiny by choosing the knife.
His path is more cerebral, than just being a nature boy.

Well, I first thought "the knife" and then when RA looked disappointed he chose it I thought, "Okay, NOT the knife."

I thought perhaps Locke was asserting his own will over his destiny. He didn't want to be the science nerd he wanted to be the Big Hunter. And "the talk" he was given by his teacher made a lot of sense.

Howver, perhaps his destiny is to be a Hunter/Leader


Excellent. I was thinking the same thing today. Lock chooses his own path.

I wonder if they were all Locke's stuff with each representing a possible future. His choice was just and indication of which future was to come.

I think Locke's been fighting his destiny by choosing the knife.
His path is more cerebral, than just being a nature boy.

definitely my point too.
I think because of the uber coincidence of Abaddon also showing up in Locke's life that Locke is who Richard thought he was, but that the knife was little John's "Don't tell me what I can't do...."

There is free will up to a point or destiny is a fickle dog

I have a jar of dirt! But seriously, after watching several times I am not so sure that Locke made the wrong choice. Richard just acted like it was and then Richard put into motion the events that get Locke to the island.

I have a jar of dirt! But seriously, after watching several times I am not so sure that Locke made the wrong choice. Richard just acted like it was and then Richard put into motion the events that get Locke to the island.

Im whit you

Items already belonging to Locke. He was a kid, out of that group a comic was the most likely possession that a kid would have. I think Locke picked items representing what would belong to him in the future. That may or may not have been what Richard wanted to see. The comic was similar to the one Walt was reading in that it had a story line that could apply to the island, choosing it would perhaps have indicated that Locke already had a connection to the Island and the existence of that connection was what Richard wanted to verify before taking Locke away? However since Locke chose items indicating the island was in his future & not an existing connection, Richard left him for the future events to bring to the island.

(Of course the comic showing events that could be connected to the island, as did the comic Walt was reading, could indicate that the Others missed the boat with Walt since the comic with the polar bear actually belonged to Hurley. Haven't we all known for some time that Hurley is "Special"! :biggrin: )

Don't forget the baseball glove!

I dont think that was it

He picked the compass and the jar --which Albert thought were correct and he was hoping John would also recognize the book, However Locke recognized the knife too--which was obviously his knife. The problem was Richard must have not know about Johns knives

It seems that later Richard DID realize the knife was also right and thats why he tried to recruit John when was a teenager.

So the question was not which ITEM....it was which ITEMS


I sort of agree. I think they were all items that Locke was supposed to be familiar with.
It was a bit of a trick question to see where Locke's mind was at.

I don't think Richard feigned his reaction about the knife. I just think it was as he said; he didn't think John was ready to be the protector/leader of the island... yet.

There was no "sand" around the cabin. It is salt. SALT. *sigh* On that same note he says to the child Locke...Pick what "will" belong to you, "what will belong to you in the future." Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who watches these. :) Did anyone else notice the shadow of the mic in the part where they are looking into the dead pit? I think I watch to much TV.

The exact phrase "Book of Laws" seems to most aptly match with "Aqdas, Kitab-i- (al-Kitab al-Aqdas, the Most Holy Book)" that is a holy text for the Baha'i faith. http://www.bahai-library.org/encyclopedia/aqdas.html

While there are similarities between the Baha'i and Buddhist worlds, they are not one and the same. Baha'is are more numerous than many realize, though.

I'm with btattersall, I think each object symbolizes an archetype and in choosing some Locke reveals the very essence of who he is.

It echoes in his conversation with the teacher who tells him he can't be the quarterback (=athlete: baseball glove) or the superhero (=comic book).

There was no "sand" around the cabin. It is salt. SALT. *sigh* On that same note he says to the child Locke...Pick what "will" belong to you, "what will belong to you in the future." Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who watches these. :) Did anyone else notice the shadow of the mic in the part where they are looking into the dead pit? I think I watch to much TV.
Maybe I don't watch enough TV. Did the show actually ever confirm that the stuff surrounding the cabin is salt? I don't remember that they did. Also, didn't Richard say pick what "already" belongs to you, not what belongs to you in the "future"?

To understand what Richard is asking you need to see all time existing at once. Like in Slaughterhouse Five. The book totally relates to Desmonds Time Travel and I think to the lives of everyone on the island.

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but: note Alpert's use of "belong" (as opposed to belongs). Grammatically, this implies multiple objects, not just one. Thematically, this could imply multiple "archetypes" for Locke.

Just some food for thought! :)

There was no "sand" around the cabin. It is salt. SALT. *sigh*Aw, life must be so rough for you... :rolleyes:

Yes, I remember the exact moment on the show when the mystery substance was confirmed without a doubt to be salt. I mean, Ben actually said "Watch out for that ring of salt, John," as they walked past that little sign with an arrow pointing down reading "SALT." Locke also put a little on his eggs in that one episode, sprinkled liberally from a jar labeled "Uncle Jacob's Log Cabin Ring Salt."

On that same note he says to the child Locke...Pick what "will" belong to you, "what will belong to you in the future." Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who watches these.Ah, but see, you have to listen as well.

RICHARD: Okay, now tell me, John, which of these things belong to you?

JOHN: To...to keep?

RICHARD: No, no, John. Which of these things belong to you already? ... Are you sure the knife belongs to you, John? ... You sure about that? Well, it doesn't.But hey, thanks for playing!

the jar looked to me like it was fille with the ash or w/e it was that made the ring around jacob's cabin


looks like i was too slow yet again :biggrin:

The compass Locke gave Sayid was a few points off true north,....a big mystery first season, and it was very obvious that the one in the scene was off north, too. Same one. My guess is that Locke was supposed to pick up the Book of Laws, which I think is a tome on the Black Arts written by Alistair Cowley, a famous (infamous) warlock of the early 20th century. Alpert looked disappointed when he didn't pick it. But dare we think Black Magic is at the heart of the Others' big mysteries? That would be a tad disappointing, to me.

I think that maybe the selection of the knife indicated what was going to happen in the future.

But, I think it is also an indication that John wasn't ready for the information Richard was going to expose him to. In fact, the science camp indicated John wasn't ready yet, as well. As already mentioned he still wanted to be the hunter on the commune.

I think that is why Christian and Claire smiled when John asked what he needs ot do to tprotect the island. This shows he is ready for the information now.

motocroccus_ said in a prior post that the knife was not the same as Locke's set of knives, and that it was pointing at Locke with the handle towards Richard. To my mind, that knife looks like a sacrificial knife and the one thing we know about Locke and his past is his willingness to become a sacrificial victim/martyr. More than anything else, this trait defines him sometimes. So, rather than mean the knife represents Locke's hunter tendencies, it could equally represent his willingness to become a sacrifice (or to sacrifice others for a cause). Just a thought.


The trouble with the confirmed evidence of time/space alternatives that we've seen is that it opens up myriad possibilities. More than one Locke can exist simultaneously. Richard could simply be testing a number of "past" Lockes in order to find the right one to eventually push towards being the island's new "chosen one". The Locke who chose the knife is not who Richard wants. Another Locke who did not choose "poorly" could well be the one on the island now. Aargh!
100%
Further to my above post, the choices - as someone said earlier about the Dalai Lama test - could all be meaningful in a very simple way. For instance, Locke's choices this time (if he did in fact choose the sand and compass too - not too clear that he did) symbolically tell us that it is Locke's destiny (the compass=direction/destiny) to sacrifice himself or others (the sacrificial knife) for the island (the beach sand).

It's fun to switch these around: pick any three and use the simplest symbolic meaning for each item, and you get a different outcome!

I just re-watched "The Brig" from season 3. Very interesting to see it again after "Cabin Fever." The knife comes into play again.

Five-year-old Locke chooses the knife and Richard leaves, saying he's not ready yet.

In "The Brig," Ben hands Locke a knife and tells him to kill his father. Locke goes so far as to put the point of the knife against his father's neck, but in the end he chooses not to use the knife. When you watch the episode again, notice the expression on Richard Alpert's face as Locke walks away from Ben; he walks right past Richard Alpert, who gives Locke a very appraising long look. It is the very next day that Richard approaches Locke on the hillside, introduces himself, and tells Locke that some of them are dissatisfied with Ben's leadership. Richard then helps Locke by handing him the folder about Sawyer.

I find it very interesting now that Richard first approaches Locke the day after Locke decides not to use the knife....

So, I was looking up the process by which the Dalai Lama is selected or found and found this:

When Tenzin Gyatso was about two years old a search party was sent out to find the new incarnation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation) of the Dalai Lama.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzin_Gyatso,_14th_Dalai_Lama#cite_note-bbcprofile-5) Among other omens, the head on the embalmed body of the thirteenth Dalai Lama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thubten_Gyatso%2C_13th_Dalai_Lama) (originally facing south) had mysteriously turned to face the northeast, indicating the direction in which the next Dalai Lama would be found. Shortly afterwards, the Regent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent) Reting Rinpoche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reting_Rinpoche) had a vision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_%28religion%29) at the sacred lake of Lhamo La-tso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lhamo_La-tso) indicating Amdo (as the place to search) and a one-story house with distinctive guttering and tiling. After extensive searching, they found that Thondup's house resembled that in Reting's vision. They presented Thondup with various relics and toys—some had belonged to the previous Dalai Lama while others had not. It was reported that Thondup correctly identified all items owned by the previous Dalai Lama, exclaiming "That's mine! That's mine!"[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzin_Gyatso,_14th_Dalai_Lama#cite_note-12)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzin_Gyatso,_14th_Dalai_Lama#cite_note-13)

I think that Locke was correct in choosing the compass and the vial. The knife never belonged to his predecessor. Likely it was thrown in along with the book and the glove to tempt Locke. My guess is the book should have been the third item.

After reading through everyone's comments I am begining to think there is something to the knife representing Widmore and the Book of Laws representing Ben/the Others.

Widmore after all "changed the rules" while Ben does seem to follow the rules (for example by allowing Juliet to be executed even though we know how strongly he feels about her and only at the very last minute saying "the rules don't apply". Ben being the Others leader could have easily said I don't want her to be executed but it seems he had to find a good reason to give before he could do that, a reason that would comport with "the rules".)

The knife to me seems to represent the rule of force while the book of laws I think is probably meant to represent "an eye for an eye" justice that the Others follow.

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but: note Alpert's use of "belong" (as opposed to belongs). Grammatically, this implies multiple objects, not just one. Thematically, this could imply multiple "archetypes" for Locke.

Just some food for thought! :)Hi, Rheems - I totally agree with you. I posted something like this idea in another thread, although not so eloquently! I think that each object represented a different path or future for Locke and RA didn't like that Locke picked the knife because that represented war. I think that Locke's future is directly tied with the Island and RA doesn't want war for the Island. RA was essentially asked Young Locke to tell him what kind of leader that he would be.

Hi, Rheems - I totally agree with you. I posted something like this idea in another thread, although not so eloquently! I think that each object represented a different path or future for Locke and RA didn't like that Locke picked the knife because that represented war. I think that Locke's future is directly tied with the Island and RA doesn't want war for the Island. RA was essentially asked Young Locke to tell him what kind of leader that he would be.

All this kind of makes me start thinking "time loop" again. How could any of the items belong to Locke unless he possessed them at another time and he is looping back through. If this is the case, then Alpert could be trying to gauge whether the loop is going to repeat itself or deviate. Maybe he is trying to see how Widmore breaking the rules may have change that fickle bi**h, destiny????

Isn't the implication that he is reincarnated or at least carries the mindstream of the former leader?

Isn't the implication that he is reincarnated or at least carries the mindstream of the former leader?

That was my take... Locke was a possible candidate for the next Dalai Island.

Anyone think these tests, science camps, walkabout tours may be the "rules" for recruiting? Locke seems to be a gamepiece for tipping the balance for either side, like a piece on the Backgammon board that Richard noticed.

Team Abaddon/Widmore and Team Richard/Ben can't come out and recruit Locke directly. They need to use indirect persuasion and tests.

By choosing the knife, Locke was leaning towards team Widmore. That's why Richard left and figured he'd try something else later.

Like running Locke over with a car?...Since there are 2 similiar threads on this, I'll bring a post from over there to here, to wit:

It all starts off bad when Richard sees the Smokey drawing by kiddie Locke, and then things go south faster than a rocket with a rocket up it's butt from there on out with the interview. Nothing good can come of this...

I think it's meant to be a reincarnation test on the level of your own reincarnation in a freaky twist. It would be more of a memory/personality test then, which would include how much you remember from your "past life" on the island and about what kind of person you will become because, and wrap your head around this now, : Locke is choosing the knife because of his time on the island. Locke's time on the island and his imprints of it have totally changed kiddie Locke now...now he wants the knife! Because of the imprinting, the knife just "feels right" now and maybe subconsciously he knows it is the path back to the island. It reveals how his time on the island has now shaped kiddie Locke into something different. It has now become a vicious wrinkle in time or a loop because island Locke formed kiddie Locke, not the other way around!

When I said that John Locke felt like he was the reincarnation of, uhmmm John Locke, that was just a vibe, but now I think I know what I meant when I said that. Kiddie John Locke has imprints of a past life type deal on the island. I know, past life sounds weird and is twisty-freaky, but this show is twisty-freaky too. It could validate where I think the island could be kept and one place is that it is held in the past. This way, no interference from the primitives (like the people who built 4 toe) and surrounding primitives in the world, because the rest of the world is just that-primitive. No interference from the present/future people because they can't find you in the past. Wether this is the case or my other favorite, the 11th dimension link, we still do know that time and your perception of time are all different on the island. So maybe that could've had some effect on the situation.

Go test them all Richard, and see how many more future Losties are now warped little kids coming to kill you're people and destroy your island. Now Richard is going back and checking for this, and dammit now he has a wrinkle to iron out because their island has now created the exact force that will be coming to destroy their island in the first place. Richard, in effect is having to deal with his own island version of The Valenzetti Equation. Now it's trying to fix things after the fact, it seems, to correct things before the fact.

Just as in the Valenzetti equation, 4 8 15 16 23 42, there are 6 numbers and one number must be changed to save mankind, so with 6 items the fate of one of these people must be changed also to save islandkind. If you can break one of these people out of the cycle, and they go a different direction in life, and you can be there to stop your enemy from facilitating them on to the island despite what you have changed, then I submit that all this destruction should not come to pass, because you were able to change one of the variables in this equation, hence changing the outcome of this equation.

6 Numbers. 6 Items. 6 survivors. Man that's 666-kinda creepy, huh? And I would say that John Locke is no messiah or Jesus Christ figure, because he's basically the anti-christ to the Others and has brought apocalypse to bear. And they had somewhat of a hand in creating this very dangerous "man of faith" who like the Revelations anti-christ suffered a terrible wound, but through a "miracle", rises up like a phoenix to take command as the saviour. Sounding familiar at all? It's in the Bible.

Remember, he's working with Ben but he never "joined the others", he "infiltrated" the Others as he explained to Sawyer. But, I still have a feeling Ben could be running some kind of "long con" on Locke to help accomplish something that he needs him for. Locke is very "amenable to coercion" and usually get's screwed as a result of misplaced trust, and for some reason I think Ben is using this to his advantage even though it might not look that way at the moment. John Locke never wants to leave the island, and that could be a problem for the people who are trying to make sure that you never reach the island.

If this is the case, because it is pretty wild to think about and maybe I am being a "creative writer" on this one, but, if this is the case, then you can bet that there could be the same tests administered to crucial Losties who came to the island and caused the most grief for the Others. Kate, sure. Sayid, sure. Sawyer, sure. Hurley, sure. Jack, sure. Sun, sure. Locke, sure. And the interesting thing is that most of these people survived, and most of these people dealt crippling blows to the Others by actually killing alot of them and the stations. Most if not all of these Losties end up with the Other's blood on their hands. You gotta change one of these peoples fates so they don't end up on the island and that can break the chain. Or, maybe it's just Locke they have to worry about here, I dunno.

One thing that I believe is a common theme is that everyone of them is highly resourceful and incredibly rebellious, even Walt. And they all have authority figure issues, such as daddy issues and law enforcement issues, and my boss Randy is a jerk issues. Like I said-authority issues. And is the island responsible for them turning in to these kinds of people when it could have gone a different way and they could have been different people entirely? And Desmond, our rebellious Scotsman is cut from the same cloth as the rest of them, and has proven amenable to facilitation.

So, here's the kicker, the punch line if you will. Hurley and Jack are right: now they have to go back to the island, a place of redemption because until they are redeemed they will remain the same people whose island induced traits start the whole vicious cycle off. They need to make a change and receive a redemption so that they will change into the people they should have been, not the people they were forced to be, which will change the equation. Change the person, change the equation. Then, if they were to go back around and test kiddie Locke again, he would make the right choice because he will no longer be the same kiddie Locke anymore with a bad taste of the island left lingering in his mind.

If Locke goes for the right object, then Richard can see that Locke is on the correct path, and this is more likely what he will pursue-mission accomplished. But when he grabs the knife, Richard is pissed because now, like I said, they are confronted with their own little Valenzetti Equation to work out. Also, for instance, if he went to see Kate he might take the 6 items, but they would be 6 different items for her, because I would have to bet my last dollar that if this did indeed occur, Kates model airplane she fought so hard to get would be the one item that Alpert would not want her to choose...

Redemption will bring an end to the vicious cycle in itself, but could this whole thing have started because Ben needed a spinal surgeon and whattya know...one falls right out of the sky! (<>..<>)

I'm with the knife. I think Richard was bluffing...

I am kind of on the fence on the reincarnation thing. The show is so invested in time/space travel, reincarnation just doesn't seem to fit in. But this is Lost, so anything could happen, but I am still leaning more towards a pseud-science answer like time/space travel than religious/spiritual type answers like reincarnation.

When Tenzin Gyatso was about two years old a search party was sent out to find the new incarnation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation) of the Dalai Lama.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Dalai_Lama#cite_note-bbcprofile-5) Among other omens, the head on the embalmed body of the thirteenth Dalai Lama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thubten_Gyatso%2C_13th_Dalai_Lama) (originally facing south) had mysteriously turned to face the northeast, indicating the direction in which the next Dalai Lama would be found. Shortly afterwards, the Regent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent) Reting Rinpoche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reting_Rinpoche) had a vision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_%28religion%29) at the sacred lake of Lhamo La-tso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lhamo_La-tso) indicating Amdo (as the place to search) and a one-story house with distinctive guttering and tiling. After extensive searching, they found that Thondup's house resembled that in Reting's vision. They presented Thondup with various relics and toys—some had belonged to the previous Dalai Lama while others had not. It was reported that Thondup correctly identified all items owned by the previous Dalai Lama, exclaiming "That's mine! That's mine!"[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Dalai_Lama#cite_note-12)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Dalai_Lama#cite_note-13)

I can't imagine anything but.

Isn't the implication that he is reincarnated or at least carries the mindstream of the former leader?I would guess it has more of a time connotation than a reincarnation one. The test obviously meant to evoke the search for the Dalai Lama, but that doesn't necessarily mean TPTB lifted all of it's elements.

Where does reincarnation fit in when your leaders don't age?

Where are you getting that the leaders don't age? Ben has certainly aged.

For me the idea of reincarnation or even a shared consciousness is pretty clear.
RICHARD: Okay, now tell me, John, which of these things belong to you?
JOHN: To--to keep?
RICHARD: No, no, John. Which of these things belong to you already?

Where are you getting that the leaders don't age?Richard.

Ben has certainly aged.Before he was the leader, at least.

Richard.

Before he was the leader, at least.

You're saying Ben stopped aging when he became the leader? That's a pretty big leap. He's supposed to be early-mid 40's and he looks every year of it to me.

You're saying Ben stopped aging when he became the leader? That's a pretty big leap. He's supposed to be early-mid 40's and he looks every year of it to me.

The main point is Richard does not seem to be aging. Ben may or may not currently be aging. We know that time manipulation of some sort is involved, but I think I would be kind of disappointed if reincarnation was a main theme on Lost.

The main point is Richard does not seem to be aging. Ben may or may not currently be aging. We know that time manipulation of some sort is involved, but I think I would be kind of disappointed if reincarnation was a main theme on Lost.


The poster asked where reincarnation fits in with the idea that the leaders, plural, don't age. I don't think on has to do with the other. In this case the leader would be in the Ben position, not the Richard position.

Also, I think Richard doesn't appear to age because Richard is moving around in time. I don't think he has spent the last 12 years or longer by Ben's side necessarily.

And, regarding reincarnation, I think that something like it is definitely at play here. Just who inhabits Claire and Christian's bodies? Is that really them? I don't think the resident leader is possessed by the "soul" of the former leaders, like Claire and Christian appear to be "possessed" by other entities, but I think that the leader is privy to the consciousness of either all the former leaders, or the original leader.

This may or may not have anything to do with anything, but I randomly watched the episode "What Kate Did" earlier today, and in it, the Book of Law is Mr Eko calls the old testament in his story about Josiah rebuilding the church (right before he gives Locke the spliced film) - remember, it was in a BOOK?

COINCIDENCE?? as if they even exist in this show.

We know it wasn't the knife. It seemed like to me Alpert was hoping he would pick the Book of Laws. Was some of that stuff from the Black Rock?

I thought it was the vile of sand that got the response Richard was looking for. He smile because it was sand from the Island he told Locke to take what already belonged to him which would signify that the Island was his. I'm willing to bet each of those items has an owner and the Island is Locke's. Thoughts?

I think they threw in a couple of items as decoys to test the kid. Tempt him with the comic book and the glove and see what happens. The comic book seemed contemporary with the time Locke was currently in.

I'm still not sure what to make of the whole test. I don't think that the knife was actually Locke's from a past life or from the future. It seemed more like he chose it out of some kind of vague awareness of his destiny. But the thing I can't wrap my head around is Richard's response. Was there a specific answer that he wanted? If he had chosen what Richard wanted, would he have gone to the special school? If Locke picked the wrong item, which is what Richard's abrupt departure would suggest, then why did he offer Locke a scholarship in high school? If the knife is the right answer, why did Richard act the way he did and not send Locke to the school when he was a kid?

I think that maybe the selection of the knife indicated what was going to happen in the future.

But, I think it is also an indication that John wasn't ready for the information Richard was going to expose him to. In fact, the science camp indicated John wasn't ready yet, as well. As already mentioned he still wanted to be the hunter on the commune.

I think that is why Christian and Claire smiled when John asked what he needs ot do to tprotect the island. This shows he is ready for the information now.This is a very tough debate, but I have to say that I agree with everything that you said and posted, lilburgz. I think that you hit not only the nail on the head, but all the nails on the head with your answer. :)

I'm not sure if anyone put this theory forth, but what about the idea that each of the items belongs to one of the "chosen" leaders?

The compass is Ben's; we've seen him use it before (season 3 finale when he's locating the radio tower on the map). I think Alpert wanted Locke to pick the compass; my guess is that Jacob somehow conveyed to him that Alpert's successor would choose the compass. Alpert is frustrated because Locke does pick out the compass but selects the knife instead. He then discovers Ben on the island and Ben is his successor.

Suppose Jacob always choses a leader to protect the island and the leader changes along with the threat that faces the island. For example, Ben was a Dharma insider, able to wipe out the DI because of his access (the DI was the threat Ben was chosen to defeat). Ben's other characteristics--e.g., his proclivity for secrecy and manipulation--allowed him to keep the island hidden from Widmore.

Now the island is under attack and Jacob is replacing Ben with Locke because Locke is right for the new challenge. The island is under armed attack, so the "superhero" (remember his science teacher told him he "would never be the superhero") Locke is fulfilling his destiny by saving it.

I think this theory also explains Abbadon and Alpert. I think Alpert was the leader before Ben; just like Locke is now replacing Ben, Ben once replaced Alpert. I suspect Abbadon came before Alpert (perhaps he or both have a tie to the Black Rock?). Tying into this, I think it could explain the seeming non-aging of Richard Alpert: suppose that Jacob's grace confers immortality? Or perhaps those on the island do not age at all, save for when they leave the island (which Ben apparently does frequently, thus explaining his aging)?