There were several items that Richard presented to little John: A baseball mitt, a Book of Laws, a comic book, a knife and a vile of sand... anything else?

Richard wanted John to pick a certain item to prove that he was ready, but John was hooked on his warrior image of himself, even back then. On the island, John still carried all his knives with great pride... and he was still 'not ready'.

My guess is that Richard wanted him to choose the book and was annoyed when he didn't. John has been told all his life that he is a man of science.. and he has fought that image. I think that now, as the new leader of the island, he will now put aside his knives, and venture towards the Book of Laws, to give him the secrets of the island. Not sure.. but what did the other items signify?

The comic book was about mysterious islands. The large grain sand.. could it be the sand that surrounded Jacob's cabin? What is it used for? Baseball mitt.. ? ?:confused:

How about these?

The Warrior
The Scholar
The Jester
The Athlete (mitt)
The Prohet (sand?)

How about these?

The Warrior
The Scholar
The Jester
The Athlete (mitt)
The Prohet (sand?)
knife for Warrior
book for scholar
mitt for athlete
sand for prophet
comic book for ________?
There needs to be a scientist in there.. because I think that is what Richard was looking for.

Maybe he was supposed to choose the book of laws, because he IS supposed to be told what he can and can't do (i.e. by Jacob).

knife for Warrior
book for scholar
mitt for athlete
sand for prophet
comic book for ________?
There needs to be a scientist in there.. because I think that is what Richard was looking for.

The compass. Magnetism, science of the island.

Also, remember Eko telling John about The Book of Laws, and King Josiah?

That's what I think too. The book was old and something that a leader would need from a mysterious island. But why would he have said that it was already John's when he was a child.. unless John had had possession of it before.
What struck me in all this as well, is that when John was on the island and Richard spoke to him he didn't seem to recognize him from his childhood. weird.

comic book = adventurer?

Compass for explorer?

That's what I think too. The book was old and something that a leader would need from a mysterious island. But why would he have said that it was already John's when he was a child.. unless John had had possession of it before.
What struck me in all this as well, is that when John was on the island and Richard spoke to him he didn't seem to recognize him from his childhood. weird.

That is a good question. There is no way you would forget that, would you?

That is a good question. There is no way you would forget that, would you?
And also at the hospital when John was born, I got the impression that Emily's mother and Richard knew each other???
Compass for magnetic power and science... definitely! I forgot about the compass.

Compass for Leader- giving direction
Comic book for Jester

It is like the selection of the new Dalai Lama......they believe the next one up should be able to pick out an item that belonged to the former one....they then know it is the Dalai Lama reincarnated.

It is like the selection of the new Dalai Lama......they believe the next one up should be able to pick out an item that belonged to the former one....they then know it is the Dalai Lama reincarnated.

I agree, the test was for John to do the same; which of these objects were his from another time.

I had the impression John's earlier choices were 'correct' from Richard's perspective. Odd the knife was a wrong choice, it's John's signature weapon/tool - apparently not THAT knife.

Another good episode, although I wish they showed us more of the interaction with John and Christian.

I just thought of something (6 items) Maybe these items each belonged to some chosen person. Each item seemed to remind me of someone:

comic book ( Walt)
knife (Locke)
vile of sand ( sand around Jacob's cabin ??)
compass (maybe Ben)
Old Book of Laws (Charles Widmore.. old books as at auction?)
baseball mitt (?)

Thoughts?

That's what I think too. The book was old and something that a leader would need from a mysterious island. But why would he have said that it was already John's when he was a child.. unless John had had possession of it before.
What struck me in all this as well, is that when John was on the island and Richard spoke to him he didn't seem to recognize him from his childhood. weird.
Not weird at all.

I'm roughly Locke's age. Yet I don't remember what my kindergarten teacher and first grade teacher and family doctor looked like, even though I had seen them for much longer periods of time than young Locke saw Richard Alpert.

I do remember my teachers were female. But if a woman showed up today who looked exactly like my first-grade teacher, I wouldn't recognize her. I certainly wouldn't expect it either.

In fact, I've seen photos of what my own parents looked like when I was five years old, and I don't ever remember them looking that young from my own memories.

When you've lived more than 40 years, memories of your early childhood become very fragmentary and blurred.

This is how I saw it:

The sand represents a connection to the island.
The Compass indicates direction or leadership.

This leads me to believe the test was to show what kind of leader Locke would be on the island. Had he chosen the book, it would have indicated a leader through wisdom and knowledge. He instead chose the knife which meant he would lead through strength and violence.

I suspect they are various items belonging to key people who will play a part in the future (and obtained in the future and brought back). Alpert may not know who these people are but he knows that they will have these objects on the Island.

Either young Locke chose wrong or Alpert didn't want to accept the answer he got.

This is how I saw it:

The sand represents a connection to the island.
The Compass indicates direction or leadership.

This leads me to believe the test was to show what kind of leader Locke would be on the island. Had he chosen the book, it would have indicated a leader through wisdom and knowledge. He instead chose the knife which meant he would lead through strength and violence.
That's what I though, also from the scenes we've had of the others interacting with each other, specifically the court room scene in SIASL, they appear to follow some old code of laws, that book did look pretty old, they are looking for a leader who will follow the code of laws and lead them with proper leadership. Not initiating a war with scientists, which whoever was in charge before Ben, maybe Richard, brought them into an all out conflict with The DI, I've always thought Richard looked a little upset with the fact that Ben saw and heard his mother. I'm so excited that Alpert was back, too bad for Nestor that Cain folded, wait did it fold? it's also too bad for Jimmy Smits, poor guy can't catch a break, helluva actor.

This is an odd thread for me as I read, cause I thought book of laws was once that Richard would NOT want him to pick. Cause...apparently, this island follows no laws. Just me I guess.

When I saw the items, I knew he would choose the sand as it represents the island. Didn't know the round thing was a compass until he opened it and felt that was a right choice. Direction, find the island. I knew he would choose the knife. I did not know that Richard would go ballistic when he did. Therefore, book of laws must be the other choice Richard wanted because obviously the baseball glove and comic book are not correct.

I don't know what the items mean... but I suspect the same as the poster who said the bit about the Dalai Lama... items are thrown in that the little boy would pick... the Dalai Lama... old old soul would pick the item that had belonged to him in his last incarnation because it would seem "familiar."

Richard was pissed because he knows who John WAS, and John's personality isn't the exact same as his former self because of his environment. He struggles NOT to be the guy the science teacher described as a Giant Science Nerd. John sees himself as the Warrior which is what Abbadon appeals to in him with his Walkabout subliminal message... he reinstill's John's urge to fight.

Didn't Richard say something like "he's not ready", when he left the house annoyed?

Richard was pissed because he knows who John WAS, and John's personality isn't the exact same as his former self because of his environment. He struggles NOT to be the guy the science teacher described as a Giant Science Nerd. John sees himself as the Warrior which is what Abbadon appeals to in him with his Walkabout subliminal message... he reinstill's John's urge to fight.
I really noticed that as well, that Abbadon's whole Walkabout pep talk with the reference to a knife was polar opposite what Richard appears to represent/be interested in during the "test" scene with the objects on the table. But here the dichotomy is not between science and faith but what ... reason/law and violence?


Didn't Richard say something like "he's not ready", when he left the house annoyed?
But then Mittelos/Richard WERE interested again in recruiting Locke when he was in high school, even though he "failed the test" years earlier as a boy. Interesting.

O don't know why, but when I saw the knife, sand, compas, and the book, I thought "Those all things from the Blackrock."

The other stuff seemed like things kids would naturally gravitate to: Comic and baseball mit.

perhaps we're looking to far into this, the test was an old one used to see if the being was a reincarnation, the objects could have been a whiffle ball, an orange, a half eaten sandwich, an origami swan, and a gingerbread man, no specific meaning is attached to each of them since only one matters. i believe it was the jar of sand, from island, and that the island belonged to him. the knife was just something that john wanted to be, not who he was.

People have been calling it sand, but it's not sand. I finally realized what it looks like. The granules are spherical. It's some kind of seed, possibly coriander seed (http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/15/22/23512215.jpg), which has a lot of history. Coriander was found stored in King Tut's tomb. In the bible the manna was said to look like coriander seed.

I don't think all the items mean something, as one would expect most of them to just be decoys or "control items". But possibly the seed and the knife could mean farmer and hunter, as john described before -- when he learned that he was a hunter.

All the parallels between Ben and John have been pointed out before. Maybe the farmer and the hunter were to be born, like Jacob and Esau, and they would be "one light and one dark," and Richard thought the farmer would be the good one, but really the hunter was the good one. ...of course, we haven't seen anything yet to make Ben be equated with a farmer.

Long time reader, first time poster: This may be considered spoilery, so I will tag it, but will preface it by saying that it is something to do with this post that Damon and Carlton simply confirmed in their latest podcast.

The dali lama angle is accurate, as Damon confirmed they did research on how they find the new Tulka, or Buddhist lama (of which the dali lama is most well known), for this episode. They do indeed lay out several objects in front of the child in order to prove that he has been reincarnated from a previous tulka/lama. At least, this is how I understand it.

I don't think the knife was a wrong choice by young Locke. Maybe that test was actually to see which character Locke wanted to play this time round. Richard was merely disappointed Locke chose the knife as that meant Locke would be playing his present character on the island and Richard wanted something different from him. Then in later scenes they still tried to influence things by trying to convince teenage Locke he really should be a scientist - but again Locke refused.

Looking further at Locke's adult life... his falling out of a window and being made a cripple (as he put it) was another attempt by the powers that be to force Locke into a certain way. But then the orderly convinced Locke to go on a walkabout and soon after that Locke wound up on the island.

It seems Locke's life is the result of a constant power struggle by the powers that be (mittelos/dharma/widmore - whoever!) with each side trying to make Locke theirs. Even now on the island Ben has been - and now Jack's dad in the cabin is also - busy trying to convince Locke he is the chosen one.

Hi, I added this thread:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1896056#post1896056

In another area, but I mention that the Book of Laws may be from Baum's novel, _Sky Island_, which has many parallels to our LOST island situation.

I see the items as different archetypes of young Locke's imagination and direction.

The Mysterious Island comic book refers to the Artistic archetype. Whether young Locke has the gift of openmindedness and healthy imagination.

The Knife refers to his innate masculine persona archetype. His ability to consciously rely on his maturity and understand his boundaries.

The vial of sand references young Locke's ability to connect with his spiritual self. Mother Earth or Anima.

The compass is how Alpert was hoping to guage his cognition and reference his direction.

The Book of Laws (perhaps and ode to Crowley's The Book of The Law?) would be a decisive measure regarding Locke's sense of order and boundary respect.

The baseball mitt was used as a tool strictly to see if normal games were an interest or not.

... "The Book of Laws (perhaps and ode to Crowley's The Book of The Law?) ..."

I was thinking along those same lines myself. And as an odd tangent, the Heinlein book "Stranger in a Strange Land" also refers to the The Book of the Law, and earlier, in season three we saw an episode with that same name. I have other thoughts along the Thelemic/Ceremonial magick tangent and there are other tie-ins on the show that I've spotted, but I can't go into them without breaking vows I took, so... yeah. Weird, huh? :-) It's probably all just coincidence.

And the whole process of Richard testing a young John Locke via the same sort of means reportedly used to select/identify the 14th Dalai Lama, well, that just makes sense with all the "namastes" we heard tossed about by Marvin Candle et al, and the usage of the word "dharma" and the 108 key number, which has meaning in Tibetan Buddhism (IIRC).

The baseball mitt was used as a tool strictly to see if normal games were an interest or not.


I'm going to nitpick and disagree with this. Maybe this was similar to what you meant to say, but you didn't phrase it like that.

The few sentences of dialogue about backgammon was enough to tell Alpert John was interested in that type of games. Games that are about knowledge and analysis (I don't know much about backgammon, by the way).

The mitt was used to gain insight to how interested John was in fitting in with others. It was probably used to symbolize everyday life.

The mitt was used to gain insight to how interested John was in fitting in with others. It was probably used to symbolize everyday life.

I agree, to a small extent. I'll expound a bit to clarify.

Alpert's use of the baseball mit was to see if young Locke was interested in normal American life. Barbeques and ballgames. The great pasttime. He was not. But he also wasn't interested in his own maturation process to Alpert's approval.

I had a weird thought on this, John's stubborn nature leads him to keep picking up the "knife" as a symbol that he is a hunter.

We've learned when he was betrayed by the police undercover guy that Locke could not shoot that man.

When Richard presented Locke as a grown man, "the man from tallahasee" in which he had to prove (didn't Ben give him a knife) to kill Cooper. Locke could not do it. BUT Richard helps him!! To not kill Cooper and gave him the information to have Sawyer do this. Means Locke is not meant for the Knife even though he desperately wants to be. He is the one, he's just stubborn :)

Glad to see someone started this thread so my first post could be a reply and not a new thread.

I just discovered this show 3 weeks ago and flew threw the first three seasons, and finished up season four on itunes last night.

I looked at the comic book and the glove as decoys, items that a young boy should be interested in and would be easy picks.

Vial of sand (or whatever it was). Very early on, Locke was scared to leave the island fearful that he would lose the islands healing power. After seeing the finale, I instantly thought back to that vial of sand thinking that mabye John had to carry a piece of the island with him when he leaves so that he will remain healed.

Book of laws: Ben instructed Lock to proceed out of the orchid and find his people. They would teach him all they know then follow him willingly. I wonder if the book of laws is passed on from Richard to the new leader. I found it quite interesting how Ben was very careful to always not harm innocent people. His demeanor changed once he realized that Jacob had basically commanded him to exile himself from the island. it was almost like he stopped following the laws of the island.

The knife. i found this very hard to explain. I am leaning towards that sometime in the future John gives up his many weapons, this would be the same time that he takes ownership of the "Book of Laws" and the vial of sand. Therefore the weapon would no longer be his.

The entire visit made me wonder if Richard was trying to evaluate if John had progressed enough to transcend time, or if Richard was evaluating whether John was in some sort of a time loop similar to Desmonds.