I thought it was interesting that Lockes dream had Horace continually chopping down a tree and getting a bloody nose - again and again in some kind of loop. The theme of "loops" (whether a "time" loop or other) have been prominent in the show for some time and I was wondering if anyone has any ideas where they might be going with this....

I thought that was interesting too and was beginning to be a little freaked out by it until I realized it was a dream. I wondered if Horace cutting down the tree over and over again as his punishment for bringing Ben to the Island. :shrug:

Well since this was a vision. We already know that Jacob has reached out for help from Locke, who can forget that creepy "Help Me". I think this was Jacob taking the form of Horace in the vision. And in the Man Behind The Curtain, one can argue that certain "loop aspects" occur (e.g. the cabin being set on fire, only to have it quickly gone as if it never existed".

My thought is that if Jacob is in a loop, maybe he does not fully control his "powers" and that some of the loop comes off when he communicates. Hence the vision of Horace repeating.

Horace also said "Hello there," twice...

We already know that Jacob has reached out for help from Locke, who can forget that creepy "Help Me". It makes me wonder if Jacob is/was what Ben was and what Locke is becoming: a "special" person chosen by the island to protect it. Like the hatch, in a way, trapped there keeping things safe.

Cutting down the tree over and over again did remind me a little bit of Hell, genius.

Well, one thing I've noticed is that Locke doesn't really get communication via apparition, like other people on and I guess, off the island do. His messages seem to come more through dreams and signs...(<>..<>)

I had the idea that maybe that wasn't actually Horace... just an "imprint" of him. As if maybe someone (Jacob) knew Locke would be coming and left a message (in the form of "Horace") to point Locke in the right direction.

Just an idea though.

I had the idea that maybe that wasn't actually Horace... just an "imprint" of him. As if maybe someone (Jacob) knew Locke would be coming and left a message (in the form of "Horace") to point Locke in the right direction.

Just an idea though.

"...This has not been a recording... this has not been a recording... this has not been a recording... this has not been a recording...":)

For anyone not aware, it's a relevant little tidbit that Lost was originally to be titled "The Circle."

It loops because Locke has had this dream three times now, and they all kinda run together. Locke's opening eye looped too.

Horace is like a "non-player-character" caught in a video game loop. Sometimes such a character will repeat doing/saying things until a player character says the right thing to get them to snap out of their loop and do something different in order to help get the player characters to the next stage of their quest (e.g. see the film Existenz for some examples in a VR environment). It was cool to see such an explicit loop in the game, er, I mean television show, last night.

When I was watching that scene, I thought it was really happening, and I remember hearing that sometimes ghosts are stuck in a loop. I though Goodspeed was a ghost. Since it was a dream...I have no idea why he was stuck in a loop.

Richard asking Locke about the items would suggest that Locke was re-living a life. Perhaps stuck in a much larger loop?

Richard asking Locke about the items would suggest that Locke was re-living a life. Perhaps stuck in a much larger loop?

Thats a great point.

Perhaps the name Horace is a reference to the Egyptian god Horus, patron of young men and the "ideal" of the dutiful son who grows up to become a just man. Shanti.

Eternal Return.

For anyone not aware, it's a relevant little tidbit that Lost was originally to be titled "The Circle."

BTW, the letter O (circularity) of LOST is focused on at the beginning of each episode..

I thought it was interesting that Lockes dream had Horace continually chopping down a tree and getting a bloody nose - again and again in some kind of loop. The theme of "loops" (whether a "time" loop or other) have been prominent in the show for some time and I was wondering if anyone has any ideas where they might be going with this....

I believe these loops are getting tighter and tighter. I thought I saw things happening in twos last night. For instance, when Keamy was telling the guys to hurry up and pack things for the helicopter, I thought the scene was played twice. Perhaps I was the one having brain loops. :biggrin:

The thought that occurred to me was that the actors have been filmed playing scenes in different ways, and only one version is used. Maybe that extra footage will be used in future episodes, to show some course correction from the loops.

I read this on Lostpedia-

"Horace Goodspeed is seen cutting down a tree, only to have that tree reappear uncut, which he then cuts down again in a seemingly repetitive loop. This is an apparent reference to the myth of Sisyphus, whom the gods punish by forcing him to push a boulder up a hill, only to have the boulder roll back down for him to push again in a eternally repeating loop."

You know how TPTB love their references.

Horace isn't the only one stuck in a loop--we all are. That's if you subscribe to the Hindu/Buddhist belief in the wheel of life, or Samsara.

p.s. The scene of Locke and Alpert is an analogy of how the 14th Dalai Lama was chosen

"Some monks in Lhasa (the capital of Tibet) had a dream that the 13th Dalai Lama had been reincarnated into the body of a little peasant boy in small village. Two monks went to the small village in the Amdo region of Northeastern Tibet to a peasant family to to observe their two year old son. The little boy recognized a certain hidden item that had belonged to the thirteenth Dalai Lama. He picked it out from among many other items that did not belong to him. Two years later the kid was accepted as the fourteenth reincarnation of the Dalai Lama."

src: http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC063737/Dalai%20Lama.html

So, the question is raised: Is Locke the nth iteration of spiritual leader 'chosen' by the island--Ben being (n-1), and Widmore being (n-2) [It's not my idea, but I found it interesting].

A couple things about the "Horace Dream" that I haven't seen mentioned...
Was Hoarce's nose bleeding in the scene after the Purge where Ben closes his eyes? I guess I was wondering if that was nosebleed like Des got when he became unstuck in time....It did seem like it was in a "loop" of some kind.

Horace told Locke he has been dead for 12 years but I thought the Purge was 16 years ago,,,not only bec/ of the whole Danielle/Alex timeline but Mikhail also said it happened 16 years ago.