Did anyone else think this was the stupidest conclusion that Jack could have ever come up with? :rolleyes:

I thought that was odd, too. But because of Jack's recent appendectomy, he, along with the others, may not be able to follow them. I'm thinking his getting sick on the island had to have served some purpose.

Jack doesn't know that they're coming to kill them yet...he wasn't in Mysteria Lane to see that Keamy was shooting up the place. I think he'll realize, hopefully not too late, that it was supposed to be used to know where NOT to go.

At first I thought Frank had dropped it as a warning, I think I'd try to call first.

I think this was just part of the condensing episodes from 16 hours into 14.

I don't know. I would've been at least a little apprehensive about it...

Did anyone else think this was the stupidest conclusion that Jack could have ever come up with? :rolleyes:

Honestly yes, but we, the viewer have a lot more information at our disposal... as others have mentioned.

Did anyone else think this was the stupidest conclusion that Jack could have ever come up with?

DEFINATELY! Jack's not always known to come to the brightest of conclusions, anyway.

At first I thought Frank had dropped it as a warning, I think I'd try to call first.

This is what I was gonna say--warning them, just as he later warns Sawyer, Claire, Aaron, and what's'name to hide when he comes upon them in the jungle.

I love that Frank is one of the good guys.

Did anyone else think this was the stupidest conclusion that Jack could have ever come up with? :rolleyes:

I'm sure there's a Smilie for ~giggle~ but I'm giggling too hard to look for it.

I'm amazed that Fox didn't ~giggle~ when he delivered that line, and right about then he was raiding the pantry.
.... and Hurley didn't ~giggle~ when he said 'mallomars'.

They were maintaining...

Honestly yes, but we, the viewer have a lot more information at our disposal... as others have mentioned.
I agree, we have a lot of information he doesn't but by Faraday's own admission they aren't there to rescue them, plus they've caught them in a series of lies and they should be doubted and the losties should be doubted. I think Frank threw that out as a warning, to say avoid the area they're going to.

Frank: What are you doing here? Run away! Run away!
Jack: But I thought you wanted us to follow you.
Frank: What? NO. I was trying to warn you people. Didn't you get the bag?
Jack: Yeah, I got the bag. And the phone.
Frank: And the note?
Jack: What note?
Frank: In the bag. The bag!
Jack:....
Frank: The note that said "I am being forced to transport murderous thugs against my will to a location where they will kill everyone they find and then torch the island. Get yourself to safety and use this sat phone to hide from us. Whatever you do, do not go running into the jungle recklessly and come looking for us." That note!
Jack: Oh, crap.
Keamy: *cranks his arm thingy* Hey. Let's test this baby.

LOL

See and I was retarded because if I was a Lostie I would have thought they threw a beeping bomb . You know drop something and toss it out and drive away.

Well, he didn't exactly get, "Not Penny's Boat," either. I hope he doesn't lead his redshirts to Keamy. Keamy doesn't miss redshirts.

All Frank dropped was a beeping dohickey that showed a location. If I were Jack, I'd also think they wanted me to go to the location on the dohickey. But while watching the show, I thought of the book Battle Royal, and how Jack would learn soon enough to avoid those other dots on the screen. :frown:

All Frank dropped was a beeping dohickey that showed a location. If I were Jack, I'd also think they wanted me to go to the location on the dohickey. But while watching the show, I thought of the book Battle Royal, and how Jack would learn soon enough to avoid those other dots on the screen. :frown:

He dropped a bag... Jack took other stuff out before he found the phone.... I think I saw what looked like folded paper - maybe a map? All we saw was Frank putting the phone in the bag - he might have stashed other stuff (like a note?) in there earlier.

I was practically screaming at Jack for saying that, personally. You'd think he might remember the fact that Dan told him the freighter wasn't there to rescue them.

Hopefully, Jack&co will run into Sawyer, Miles and the baby in the jungle before they find Keamy. Then Sawyer can tell the people from the beach what happened at the barracks, and they can all get together and hide somewhere. Hopefully.

I still sit back and think to myself,,,

TPTB should have killed off Jack in the Pilot as scheduled...

Frank: What are you doing here? Run away! Run away!
Jack: But I thought you wanted us to follow you.
Frank: What? NO. I was trying to warn you people. Didn't you get the bag?
Jack: Yeah, I got the bag. And the phone.
Frank: And the note?
Jack: What note?
Frank: In the bag. The bag!
Jack:....
Frank: The note that said "I am being forced to transport murderous thugs against my will to a location where they will kill everyone they find and then torch the island. Get yourself to safety and use this sat phone to hide from us. Whatever you do, do not go running into the jungle recklessly and come looking for us." That note!
Jack: Oh, crap.
Keamy: *cranks his arm thingy* Hey. Let's test this baby.

:D So funny. I started laughing so hard I was coughing. Then I read:
Well, he didn't exactly get, "Not Penny's Boat," either. I hope he doesn't lead his redshirts to Keamy. Keamy doesn't miss redshirts.

Between the two of you I almost stopped breathing! And those two avis you guys have are fabulous. But when I read "...or my razor"...OMG, you got me cracking up again. I could hardly type for laughing so hard. too too funny. Thanks.

I still sit back and think to myself,,,
Yeah, *sigh* me too. But I don't know...looking back, it just wouldn't be the same without him. He gives us plenty to laugh at, if nothing else.
*ducks to hide from the Jack fans* I didn't mean nothin' by it! :)
I actually like him better now than I did before.

:D So funny. I started laughing so hard I was coughing. Then I read:


Between the two of you I almost stopped breathing! And those two avis you guys have are fabulous. But when I read "...or my razor"...OMG, you got me cracking up again. I could hardly type for laughing so hard. too too funny. Thanks.


Yeah, *sigh* me too. But I don't know...looking back, it just wouldn't be the same without him. He gives us plenty to laugh at, if nothing else.
*ducks to hide from the Jack fans* I didn't mean nothin' by it! :)
I actually like him better now than I did before.
I have to disagree slightly Jack is an interesting character in the flashforwards, drunk pill addicted, jealous and suicidal. Same with Kate all they do is bounce her back and forth between Jack and Sawyer in the flashforwards interesting. But on the island only Jack can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Excuse me I have to go hide from the Jack fans.

Yeah, *sigh* me too. But I don't know...looking back, it just wouldn't be the same without him. He gives us plenty to laugh at, if nothing else.
*ducks to hide from the Jack fans* I didn't mean nothin' by it! :)
I actually like him better now than I did before.

Oh, me too. My relationship with Jack has been a little bit... changeable, thus far. Season one he was OK, but then I was still getting to know everyone... ah, the good old days of season one, where the most we had to worry about was Ethan and the Mysterious Crashing Noises in the jungle and the polar bears. *sigh*

Season two I just hated Jack. Majorly irritating. Plus there was that awful flashback-hair in Man of Science, Man of Faith.

Season three I started liking him a bit more.

season four... he's been okay this year actually. Still not my favourite character by a long shot... I mean, I like Captain Gault more than Jack and we've only known the captain for about three episodes... but not quite so much of a twat.

Or, rather, that's how I felt up to the "I think they want us to follow them" line.

I don't want him to actually die, though. He's good for laughing at. Without opportunities for Jack-bashing, the world would be a poorer place... and it's funny watching him be indecisive about the "Kate or Juliet" question.

I don't want him to actually die, though. He's good for laughing at. Without opportunities for Jack-bashing, the world would be a poorer place... and it's funny watching him be indecisive about the "Kate or Juliet" question.
Hey, Kate's indecisive he's indecisive they're perfect for each other. But at this point when Kate makes her decision, will anyone care?

To both of you: I see where you're coming from. I agree with you guys. It's weird and yet wonderful how easily the writers have come to be able to play with our emotions this way. It's a sign of great writing to get viewers to care so much about characters, even to the ones that we are constantly vacillating over.

To both of you: I see where you're coming from. I agree with you guys. It's weird and yet wonderful how easily the writers have come to be able to play with our emotions this way. It's a sign of great writing to get viewers to care so much about characters, even to the ones that we are constantly vacillating over.
So your saying the writers intend for us to be bored and frustrated by ego driven, self righteous, I'm always right Jack and Kate, who has been robbed of her interesting characters traits since they made her only storyline the dreaded love triangle.

So I don't think he's stupid... why? Because he only has the info he knows. And that is that YES, the helicopter isn't there to save the LOSTIES... but for all Jack knows (and he has said this in the show) the helicopter IS returning for Faraday and Lewis..

That being said, the thing thrown out would be a way for Dan & Char to find the Helicopter. For all we know, Jack will bring guns and plan on it not being a 'picture perfect' scenario, especially since he knows there is no real rescue plan. Hell... he's shown leadership before, so I don't think we should count him out just yet ....

I also like the idea of Jack's injuries preventing them from leaving just yet, maybe that will give Sayid time to find them?

Jack is one of the best characters. Him and Locke are the juggernauts of the show. The two best actors, always get the best lines, always further the plot, they're the two main runners of the show.

Although i'd say Ben is joining them as the third musketeer. Maybe today's line from Jack wasn't the best, but there will be other days!

So I don't think he's stupid... why? Because he only has the info he knows. And that is that YES, the helicopter isn't there to save the LOSTIES... but for all Jack knows (and he has said this in the show) the helicopter IS returning for Faraday and Lewis..

That being said, the thing thrown out would be a way for Dan & Char to find the Helicopter. For all we know, Jack will bring guns and plan on it not being a 'picture perfect' scenario, especially since he knows there is no real rescue plan. Hell... he's shown leadership before, so I don't think we should count him out just yet ....

I also like the idea of Jack's injuries preventing them from leaving just yet, maybe that will give Sayid time to find them?
Like I said in a previous post, by Daniel's own admission they aren't there to rescue the losties, they have caught them in a series of lies, it would be nice for Jack to show some kind of skepticism, the way Sayid did toward the freighties.

Jack is one of the best characters. Him and Locke are the juggernauts of the show. The two best actors, always get the best lines, always further the plot, they're the two main runners of the show.

Although i'd say Ben is joining them as the third musketeer. Maybe today's line from Jack wasn't the best, but there will be other days!

This is what I think too. I <3 Jack, but when he said that I was screaming in my head, "Nooo!" :shock1: He and Locke have always been my favorites and I embrace their faults completely! One-dimensional characters are boring.

Didn't you notice though when the helicopter was flying towards them Julliet and Kate had wonderful smiles on their face, like, "Sayid is back to rescue us" So Jack saying what he did was not out of the story line I don't think.

LOL

See and I was retarded because if I was a Lostie I would have thought they threw a beeping bomb . You know drop something and toss it out and drive away.Thats what I was thinking, I was like "Jack, you idiot! Don't run towards it!!"

Did anyone else think this was the stupidest conclusion that Jack could have ever come up with? :rolleyes:
Sure, but that' s just for the current season.

We could make a list of "Stupidest Jack Decisions" according to season:

Season 1: Jack figures the "worst case" for the hatch is that the Losties can use it as a shelter

Season 2: Jack tells the Losties he wouldn't have taken them into the jungle without a plan (just before The Others capture the lot of them)

Season 3: Jack has left the island (evidently) and now deeply regrets it enough to become a junkie

Season 4: "I think they want us to follow them"

Honorable Mention:
Season 3: Jack threatens to beat up Achara, a woman who is 5' 3" tall, unless she draws a tattoo on his arm

I thought that this line was just to show more how Jack is not in tune with what he "should" be doing. Sort of along the lines of what Rose was talking about with Jack being sick in a place where people get better. He's not listening to the island so he's making the wrong decisions.

A couple of points in Jacks defense:

1) As of this moment, neither Jack nor anyone on the beach even knows about Keamy or the paramilitary squad affiliated with the freighter. They know about the scientists, Frank, and to a lesser extent some of Regina and Minkowski.

2) Someone gives you a pre-programmed GPS device with a blinking dot. What would you assume it's for? An intermittent nightlight?

My guess is that Frank really does need them to follow him. Right now, Frank is the only good guy to know what Keamy is up to, and he also knows he'll need some major help to stop whatever badness Mr Bad is planning.

(I guess Jack and crew could just go hide behind some rocks on the beach and wait patiently for the massive flames to spread across the entire island. That would be smarter of Jack, now, wouldn't it?)

weird, i thought he said: "they want us to phone home...":rolleyes:

It sounded like Jack thought Lassie was in the helicopter. "What is it Lass....uh, Frank? You want us to follow you?"

The bag was full of other stuff...maybe oughta check that out before drawing conclusions?

And...given that they know Daniel and Charlotte to be lying to them...not to mention a dead throat slashed doctor washing ashore.

Last week Jack says, "We'll be ready for them." This week: With what, open arms???

So you're saying the writers intend for us to be bored and frustrated by ego driven, self righteous, I'm always right Jack and Kate, who has been robbed of her interesting characters traits since they made her only storyline the dreaded love triangle.
ha. No, I wouldn't go that far. I've never liked Kate, except for maybe in the pilot. I was talking about the characters of Jack & Ben, both of whom I have felt hate and a grudging sort of liking. Never admiration, though. Kate...don't even get me started on Kate. Besides, I try not to get too much into character-bashing, even the ones that drive me insane to watch.

it would be nice for Jack to show some kind of skepticism, the way Sayid did toward the freighties.
Which goes to prove, once again, that Sayid is MUCH
smarter than Jack! (Something we've seen again and again. I'm so glad that Sayid is once more a major character this year.)

I embrace their faults completely! One-dimensional characters are boring.
yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say about the writers getting us to care, even though it's sometimes unwillingly.

I thought that this line was just to show more how Jack is not in tune with what he "should" be doing. Sort of along the lines of what Rose was talking about with Jack being sick in a place where people get better. He's not listening to the island so he's making the wrong decisions.
An interesting point you make there. He's not only sick physically, but losing his ability for sound reasoning.
(Not that I ever thought he made many good decisions, but...!) :)

He dropped a bag... Jack took other stuff out before he found the phone.... I think I saw what looked like folded paper - maybe a map? All we saw was Frank putting the phone in the bag - he might have stashed other stuff (like a note?) in there earlier.

I get your point. I also wanted Jack to look at the other stuff in the bag. But I don't think there was a note explaining the situation, because we saw that all Frank really had time to do was wrap up his sat phone and hide it from Keamy.

Jack realizes the people from the boat aren't what they say they are. No one says Jack and company have to go to the situation fat and stupid. Use the phone to find the other dots, but do so heavily armed and moving stealthily.

A couple of points in Jacks defense:

1) As of this moment, neither Jack nor anyone on the beach even knows about Keamy or the paramilitary squad affiliated with the freighter. They know about the scientists, Frank, and to a lesser extent some of Regina and Minkowski.

2) Someone gives you a pre-programmed GPS device with a blinking dot. What would you assume it's for? An intermittent nightlight?

My guess is that Frank really does need them to follow him. Right now, Frank is the only good guy to know what Keamy is up to, and he also knows he'll need some major help to stop whatever badness Mr Bad is planning.

(I guess Jack and crew could just go hide behind some rocks on the beach and wait patiently for the massive flames to spread across the entire island. That would be smarter of Jack, now, wouldn't it?)

Great points gup!!! When I first saw that scene, I also thought "Jack WTF ar you thinking?!?!?

Now that I've had time to think about it, Frank may want Jack and the Losties to follow them. it's not like Jack, etc are going to pack a lunch and go have a picnic. They know the Freighter's agenda, so I'm sure they'll proceed with caution as they did when the Fantastic Four parachuted in. This time they know that they aren't there to rescue them so they'll be extra cautious. They'll be packing guns instaed of lunch......

Also, if Frank didn't want the Losties to follow them , why fly over their beach and drop the Sat phone? He didn't want to go the Keamy and the mercs in the first place, so dropping the Sat phone on the beach was his "plan". He wants Jack to follow them. If he didn't want Jack to follow them, he wouldn't have flown over their beach and drop a Sat phone showing their locations.

It sounded like Jack thought Lassie was in the helicopter. "What is it Lass....uh, Frank? You want us to follow you?"

The bag was full of other stuff...maybe oughta check that out before drawing conclusions?

And...given that they know Daniel and Charlotte to be lying to them...not to mention a dead throat slashed doctor washing ashore.

Last week Jack says, "We'll be ready for them." This week: With what, open arms???

I'm sure Jack checked the rest of the contents in the bag before proceeding.......do we really need a scene of Jack minutely going through each item in the bag? Remember they are pressed for time and condensing the episodes.......

Jack realizes the people from the boat aren't what they say they are. No one says Jack and company have to go to the situation fat and stupid. Use the phone to find the other dots, but do so heavily armed and moving stealthily.
Good point, but the losties can't outgun them because Keamy and his men out gun them as was shown in this episode. Perhaps Sayid will get to the beach before they go like lambs to slaughter.

DEFINATELY! Jack's not always known to come to the brightest of conclusions, anyway.




Wow, I'd say that given their situation Jack has done a damn good job coming to some pretty bright conlusions when it dealt with taking care of everyone and trying to keep everyone safe. Not to mention that he had just had surgery and may not have been completely all together just yet. I think he's made some pretty great decisions as far as saving Sawyer's life, Kate's life, yep, just about all the Losties should thank him for some of the stupid decisions he's made.:rolleyes:

Good point, but the losties can't outgun them because Keamy and his men out gun them as was shown in this episode. Perhaps Sayid will get to the beach before they go like lambs to slaughter.

The Losties wouldn't be walking into a slaughter.....Keamy doesn't know they are coming, the Losties would ambush them, and there are at most 5 mercs, the Losties outnumber them. Plus if Sawyer arrives back, that's at least another automatic weapon that they have. If they go past New Otherton, they may be able to pick up more guns there. I don't remember exactly how many guns they have, but they have some.

all I've got to say is this was totaly the "Lassie/Timmy" moment.... whats that frank? timmy's headed inland?? I think he wants us to follow him!!!

I get your point. I also wanted Jack to look at the other stuff in the bag. But I don't think there was a note explaining the situation, because we saw that all Frank really had time to do was wrap up his sat phone and hide it from Keamy.

Jack realizes the people from the boat aren't what they say they are. No one says Jack and company have to go to the situation fat and stupid. Use the phone to find the other dots, but do so heavily armed and moving stealthily.
I agree. Just last episode you heard Jack saying "I know they're lying." But that doesn't mean the Losties can't take advantage of the only boat in 100 days coming close to the island. That's the prize he and Sayid have their eyes on, whether they're welcome or not.
He also spent some time with Frank and knows he's the only heli pilot, so if Frank sent them a bag with a tracking phone in it, one very good possibility is so they can track where he's taking his passengers. Quite simple, really.

And if you look at promo photos,

some of your questions are answered and you find out they are studying the folded up map or whatever it is, before anybody goes bashing off into the jungle - all the current beach people are there in a nighttime setting.

It sounded like Jack thought Lassie was in the helicopter. "What is it Lass....uh, Frank? You want us to follow you?"

The bag was full of other stuff...maybe oughta check that out before drawing conclusions?

And...given that they know Daniel and Charlotte to be lying to them...not to mention a dead throat slashed doctor washing ashore.

Last week Jack says, "We'll be ready for them." This week: With what, open arms???

ha! I didn't see your Lassie quote before I made mine... thats hillarious that I wasn't the only one thinking that! Didn't mean to try and steal your thunder!

So your saying the writers intend for us to be bored and frustrated by ego driven, self righteous, I'm always right Jack and Kate, who has been robbed of her interesting characters traits since they made her only storyline the dreaded love triangle.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

At first I thought Frank had dropped it as a warning, I think I'd try to call first.

Frank did drop it as a warning or a heads-up.

Jack never said they were going to follow, just that it was what the Freighties wanted them to do.

**edited**

LOL

See and I was retarded because if I was a Lostie I would have thought they threw a beeping bomb . You know drop something and toss it out and drive away.

I thought the beeping was a bomb too! If it were me I would have told everyone to run and then we'd all be hiding behind trees waiting for it to go off. Well, I would be. Everyone else would be using the phone.

Frank did drop it as a warning or a heads-up.

Jack never said they were going to follow, just that it was what the Freighties wanted them to do.

**edited**

**edited** What I meant was that my thought was that Frank dropped the phone with the intention that Jack would call him on it, and Frank would say run for the hills or whatever. Or, Frank wanted Jack to bring everyone to the chopper where he would be waiting. That was my interpretation of that drop. I guess I'm not convinced that Jack knows they are there to kill them, not save them.

Jack is one of the best characters. Him and Locke are the juggernauts of the show. The two best actors, always get the best lines, always further the plot, they're the two main runners of the show.

I completely agree. It's also nice to know that Damon and Carlton agree, since this is their show and all. :biggrin:

Like I said in a previous post, by Daniel's own admission they aren't there to rescue the losties, they have caught them in a series of lies, it would be nice for Jack to show some kind of skepticism, the way Sayid did toward the freighties.

And you didn't see that Jack was ALSO skeptical of them? You didn't see Jack's reaction to Daniel the minute he saw him? How he knew Sayid and Juliet were in the jungle and set up Miles beautifully? It's always amusing how SOME of Jack's actions are dissected and other actions are completely ignored.

Sure, but that' s just for the current season.

We could make a list of "Stupidest Jack Decisions" according to season:

Season 1: Jack figures the "worst case" for the hatch is that the Losties can use it as a shelter

So it's a terrible idea to hide your people from Others who are armed with weapons? At least he actually was TRYING to save the Losties. He also made sure that he kept his promise to return before sunset to sit it out with them because they were afraid. Locke didn't give a damn. As it turns out, the hatch was a darn nice place to hang out.

Season 2: Jack tells the Losties he wouldn't have taken them into the jungle without a plan (just before The Others capture the lot of them) How conveniently you forget that it was SAYID'S plan? Jack wanted to tell them the minute he heard the news from Sayid on the beach, but Sayid had a plan. Remember?

Season 3: Jack has left the island (evidently) and now deeply regrets it enough to become a junkie Yeah, and it would have been nice of Locke and Ben to have shared the tons of information they know about the island to help Jack make an informed decision, but Locke and Ben are too special to share that information. I still can't believe that Locke never told Jack, a spinal surgeon, that he was confined to a wheelchair and the island completely healed him. Rose would have backed up the story. Would Jack have believed it? Who knows, but Locke never said a word. Neither has Ben. All they ever say is "Trust me," "Don't do it," and "You're not suppose to do it." Oh yeah, that's helpful. Don't try getting off a craphole island, Jack. It's SOOOO much better to stay here forever. I'm sure any sane person would agree with that line of thinking. :rolleyes:

Season 4: "I think they want us to follow them" Considering we have no idea what happens AFTER that comment, I'll wait to pass judgement. As has already been stated, Jack is not privy to the information the viewers have, and he has no idea that Keamy has been murdering people, both on and off the island. It would have been nice for Ben to mention to Jack back in TTLG that he was trying to save his own butt and he is in a world war with Charles Widmore, and that Ben is the reason for all the hell the Losties are going through, but why do that when we can blame Jack.

Honorable Mention:
Season 3: Jack threatens to beat up Achara, a woman who is 5' 3" tall, unless she draws a tattoo on his armAh, the emergence of Imaginary Lost. THAT scene never happened. He threatened to beat her up? Please.

A couple of points in Jacks defense:

1) As of this moment, neither Jack nor anyone on the beach even knows about Keamy or the paramilitary squad affiliated with the freighter. They know about the scientists, Frank, and to a lesser extent some of Regina and Minkowski.

2) Someone gives you a pre-programmed GPS device with a blinking dot. What would you assume it's for? An intermittent nightlight?

My guess is that Frank really does need them to follow him. Right now, Frank is the only good guy to know what Keamy is up to, and he also knows he'll need some major help to stop whatever badness Mr Bad is planning.

Good points. I'm going to assume that Jack is going to go through the bag that was dropped, and everyone will come up with a course of action. Jack isn't in exactly tip top shape to be leading a charge, so we'll see what happens.

(I guess Jack and crew could just go hide behind some rocks on the beach and wait patiently for the massive flames to spread across the entire island. That would be smarter of Jack, now, wouldn't it?):biggrin: Yeah, somehow sitting around and doing nothing or going to Othersville and sitting around and doing nothing is smarter than taking action, any action. Jack and Sayid are of the same mind. Both men feel that "Who cares that it's not Penny's boat. It's a BOAT." Do people really think that they are going to ask for permission to leave if the Freighters aren't willing to rescue them?


Jack realizes the people from the boat aren't what they say they are.

Jack knew that from the very beginning, but I think he still believed that these people had some sympathy for plane crash survivors and would help them get home. I mean, who wouldn't think that way? That's a normal reaction.


Now that I've had time to think about it, Frank may want Jack and the Losties to follow them. it's not like Jack, etc are going to pack a lunch and go have a picnic. They know the Freighter's agenda, so I'm sure they'll proceed with caution as they did when the Fantastic Four parachuted in. This time they know that they aren't there to rescue them so they'll be extra cautious.

It's nice to see that someone actually noticed the part that Jack and company were proceeding cautiously from the very beginning. They NEVER welcomed the Freaky Four with open arms.

Also, if Frank didn't want the Losties to follow them , why fly over their beach and drop the Sat phone? He didn't want to go the Keamy and the mercs in the first place, so dropping the Sat phone on the beach was his "plan". He wants Jack to follow them. If he didn't want Jack to follow them, he wouldn't have flown over their beach and drop a Sat phone showing their locations. This could certainly be true. The scene was too ambiguous to know what Frank was trying to tell the camp, but I expect we'll find out in the next episode.

I'm sure Jack checked the rest of the contents in the bag before proceeding.......do we really need a scene of Jack minutely going through each item in the bag? Clearly, we do. It needs to be spelled out.

Wow, I'd say that given their situation Jack has done a damn good job coming to some pretty bright conlusions when it dealt with taking care of everyone and trying to keep everyone safe. Not to mention that he had just had surgery and may not have been completely all together just yet. I think he's made some pretty great decisions as far as saving Sawyer's life, Kate's life, yep, just about all the Losties should thank him for some of the stupid decisions he's made.:rolleyes:

Jack will never get kudos for the smart and heroic things he's done on the island. Jack's been saving lives (or trying to, even at the risk of his own) from the very beginning. The man is a spinal surgeon not Patton. He's never patted himself on the back for them either. It's amusing to me that Locke has abandoned all the Losties for the sake of the island, and yet he's considered to be the man who's going to save them. Sawyer hasn't done anything for anyone in three years, but when he finally puts Claire's life ahead of his own, I'm suppose to believe he's the new savior of the island?


Jack never said they were going to follow, just that it was what the Freighties wanted them to do.

Gotta love another Jack-hate thread. :rolleyes:

People HAVE to talk about Jack, Bella, whether good or bad. That's a good thing. :biggrin:

**edited** What I meant was that my thought was that Frank dropped the phone with the intention that Jack would call him on it, and Frank would say run for the hills or whatever. Or, Frank wanted Jack to bring everyone to the chopper where he would be waiting. That was my interpretation of that drop. I guess I'm not convinced that Jack knows they are there to kill them, not save them.

Just a question Avius.......how would Jack have called Frank when it was Frank's phone that he dropped to Jack? If Jack had used the phone to call someone, wouldn't he have gotten someone else? Possibly Omar since we know he had the phone that received Daniel's cryptic message that Dr. Ray's body washed up on shore. I don't think Frank's intention was for Jack to call anyone, but to show them where Keamy was. After all, Frank did turn on the GPS feature.

Just a question Avius.......how would Jack have called Frank when it was Frank's phone that he dropped to Jack? If Jack had used the phone to call someone, wouldn't he have gotten someone else? Possibly Omar since we know he had the phone that received Daniel's cryptic message that Dr. Ray's body washed up on shore. I don't think Frank's intention was for Jack to call anyone, but to show them where Keamy was. After all, Frank did turn on the GPS feature.

Oh, I don't know. Don't they have a box full of phones on that boat somewhere?

Oh, I don't know. Don't they have a box full of phones on that boat somewhere?

LOL, yes it seems that they do!

Great posts, Maxum!! The Jack call was definitely answered!:smile:

Ah, I knew I came here for a reason: for aerobics and Jack is the instructor, since people seem to do a lot of jumping to conclusions whenever a thread re: Jack is started. Don't you just love Lost? It's great for your physical well-being.:rolleyes:

The Losties wouldn't be walking into a slaughter.....Keamy doesn't know they are coming, the Losties would ambush them, and there are at most 5 mercs, the Losties outnumber them. Plus if Sawyer arrives back, that's at least another automatic weapon that they have. If they go past New Otherton, they may be able to pick up more guns there. I don't remember exactly how many guns they have, but they have some.
There are a few problems with this except for Sawyer showing up and warning them. Keamy's team is armed with fully automatic weapons and given the beating they took from Smokey they're going to bring more firepower in terms of number of weapons and power of weapons, come on they were bringing a rocket launcher/bazooka. There are 6-10 mercenaries and there is no telling how many guns the losties have but it is no match for the number the freighties have. So the losties may have superior numbers but it is meaningless if the freighties out gun them. And their path to the helicopter might not take them past the barracks. And on top of that, judging by the "they want us to follow them" scene the losties are going to go toward them like they are rescuers.

There are a few problems with this except for Sawyer showing up and warning them. Keamy's team is armed with fully automatic weapons and given the beating they took from Smokey they're going to bring more firepower in terms of number of weapons and power of weapons, come on they were bringing a rocket launcher/bazooka. There are 6-10 mercenaries and there is no telling how many guns the losties have but it is no match for the number the freighties have. So the losties may have superior numbers but it is meaningless if the freighties out gun them. And their path to the helicopter might not take them past the barracks. And on top of that, judging by the "they want us to follow them" scene the losties are going to go toward them like they are rescuers.

There are not 6-10 mercenaries, you need to watch the scene again when they are on the Freighter. There are at most 6, but it looks like 5. Again, The Losties have a Sat phone with GPS that gives them Keamy and the teams exact location, Jack and co. can easily sneak up on them. So what if they have tons of firepower, what are they gonna do, land on the Island and begin shooting as soon as they get out of the helicopter and not stop? 6 people can only hold so many guns, and accurately fire even less, so that firepower is meaningless. If you only have 6 people but 100 guns and 20 rocket launchers, how does that help? 6 people is 6 people.......

We don't know that they are going to Keamy as if they are rescuers, you said that Sawyer may get to them and warn them, he knows what Keamy's plans are, plus we don't know that Sayid doesn't get back before they leave. The Losties treating the Freighties as "rescuers" is just an assumption..............

There are not 6-10 mercenaries, you need to watch the scene again when they are on the Freighter. There are at most 6, but it looks like 5. Again, The Losties have a Sat phone with GPS that gives them Keamy and the teams exact location, Jack and co. can easily sneak up on them. So what if they have tons of firepower, what are they gonna do, land on the Island and begin shooting as soon as they get out of the helicopter and not stop? 6 people can only hold so many guns, and accurately fire even less, so that firepower is meaningless. If you only have 6 people but 100 guns and 20 rocket launchers, how does that help? 6 people is 6 people.......

We don't know that they are going to Keamy as if they are rescuers, you said that Sawyer may get to them and warn them, he knows what Keamy's plans are, plus we don't know that Sayid doesn't get back before they leave. The Losties treating the Freighties as "rescuers" is just an assumption..............
I agree with you that the losties may not treat the freighties as rescuers, I'm sure in the next episode there might be a serious discussion about whether or not to follow the radar, at least I hope there is.
And you're point about six people holding only so many guns is nitpicking, and like I said the freighties have superior weaponry not in terms of amount of weapons but in terms of firepower. So, six people with fully automatic weapons could easily have the advantage, and the losties have I don't know how many guns but its a few handguns and a few rifles. And remember the attack on the barracks? The sonic fence and houses should have given the losties an advantage but it didn't work, that was a bloodbath, and there were only what six-ten people on Keamy's team.

Did anyone else think this was the stupidest conclusion that Jack could have ever come up with? :rolleyes:


It is true Jack is an idiot.He has already established that they cannot be trusted so now he wants to lead his group to find them like all is well. I use to think he was a great leader but he makes such rash decisions that have horrible consequences as I'm sure this one will.

Weren't Jack and Kate smiling when they saw the chopper coming?

Weren't Jack and Kate smiling when they saw the chopper coming?

I believe they were and I don't understand why when Danny and red told them they weren't there for them. I would be very skeptical if I was Jack and place my people somewhere safe until I was certain, not lead them to possible death. Where the hell is Sawyer when we need him.

Weren't Jack and Kate smiling when they saw the chopper coming?

Actually no, Juliet and Kate were the only ones that smiled. Jin and Sun both looked troubled, Jack briefly looked troubled/confused and then looked over at Kate.

Alrighty then.

Haha... well one of the Redshirts also seemed to come over and had a smile on his face too. :biggrin:

Haha... well one of the Redshirts also seemed to come over and had a smile on his face too. :biggrin:

Well, we all know the red shirts/socks have nary a living brain cell in their empty heads, hence their propensity toward dying.

;)

Maxum, you are awesome, woman, I couldn't have done a better job if I tried.

This has been a fun read. People talk so much about Jack, they make me love him even more. I mean, the guy was on for what? 5 minutes at the most? And yeah, he's ev0l, OMG! he's an idiot, he's selfish, he's arrogant, yada, yada, yada.... Nevermind all the great stuff he's done for everybody and the fact that he's kept them alive this long. Nevermind that he was the one who found water, without which they would have died, nevermind he gave his own blood to Boone to try to save him, or that everyone knows the guy has to be drugged to make him take the rest everyone else gets free of worries. Nevermind he's the only O6 in the future actually making an effort (misguided and crazy, as it is) to go back to the island and rescue the people left behind: Kate has clearly stated she doesn't want to go back, Sayid is running around murdering people for Ben, Hurley (whom I adore) has just given up, and Sun is moving on raising her daughter (not that I blame her).

But, no, he's a bad man, a big meanie, an abuser, a traitor, an insensitive SOB....I wonder how the redshirts that went to Otherville feel right about now; oh, wait, that's right, they're all dead. Darn! I guess the island was more important than their average existence, right? Their families will understand, right? "Mrs. Stevens, we regret to inform you and your children, that Mr. Stevens had to die in order to save this landmass. I'm sure, you'll understand because, you see? the land mass is special, it has powers, and currently there's a secret international war to control it between two very powerful, slightly crazy, power hungry guys, so, we had to, you know, let your husband die. Please accept our apologies."

Anyway, to all of you Jack haters out there, thank you for keeping Jack in everyone's minds. I don't think any of his fans could make more people talk about him if we started a full blown advertising campaign. You are all so awesome for keeping Jack front and center, I don't know how to thank you!

Well, we all know the red shirts/socks have nary a living brain cell in their empty heads, hence their propensity toward dying.

;)

I'm just waiting for one of them to go off... ala Guy in Galaxy Quest

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I1-Wpq-NOQg

:rotflmao2::rotflmao2::rotflmao2:

I completely agree. It's also nice to know that Damon and Carlton agree, since this is their show and all. :biggrin:



And you didn't see that Jack was ALSO skeptical of them? You didn't see Jack's reaction to Daniel the minute he saw him? How he knew Sayid and Juliet were in the jungle and set up Miles beautifully? It's always amusing how SOME of Jack's actions are dissected and other actions are completely ignored.



So it's a terrible idea to hide your people from Others who are armed with weapons? At least he actually was TRYING to save the Losties. He also made sure that he kept his promise to return before sunset to sit it out with them because they were afraid. Locke didn't give a damn. As it turns out, the hatch was a darn nice place to hang out.

How conveniently you forget that it was SAYID'S plan? Jack wanted to tell them the minute he heard the news from Sayid on the beach, but Sayid had a plan. Remember?

Yeah, and it would have been nice of Locke and Ben to have shared the tons of information they know about the island to help Jack make an informed decision, but Locke and Ben are too special to share that information. I still can't believe that Locke never told Jack, a spinal surgeon, that he was confined to a wheelchair and the island completely healed him. Rose would have backed up the story. Would Jack have believed it? Who knows, but Locke never said a word. Neither has Ben. All they ever say is "Trust me," "Don't do it," and "You're not suppose to do it." Oh yeah, that's helpful. Don't try getting off a craphole island, Jack. It's SOOOO much better to stay here forever. I'm sure any sane person would agree with that line of thinking. :rolleyes:

Considering we have no idea what happens AFTER that comment, I'll wait to pass judgement. As has already been stated, Jack is not privy to the information the viewers have, and he has no idea that Keamy has been murdering people, both on and off the island. It would have been nice for Ben to mention to Jack back in TTLG that he was trying to save his own butt and he is in a world war with Charles Widmore, and that Ben is the reason for all the hell the Losties are going through, but why do that when we can blame Jack.

Ah, the emergence of Imaginary Lost. THAT scene never happened. He threatened to beat her up? Please.



Good points. I'm going to assume that Jack is going to go through the bag that was dropped, and everyone will come up with a course of action. Jack isn't in exactly tip top shape to be leading a charge, so we'll see what happens.

:biggrin: Yeah, somehow sitting around and doing nothing or going to Othersville and sitting around and doing nothing is smarter than taking action, any action. Jack and Sayid are of the same mind. Both men feel that "Who cares that it's not Penny's boat. It's a BOAT." Do people really think that they are going to ask for permission to leave if the Freighters aren't willing to rescue them?



Jack knew that from the very beginning, but I think he still believed that these people had some sympathy for plane crash survivors and would help them get home. I mean, who wouldn't think that way? That's a normal reaction.



It's nice to see that someone actually noticed the part that Jack and company were proceeding cautiously from the very beginning. They NEVER welcomed the Freaky Four with open arms.

This could certainly be true. The scene was too ambiguous to know what Frank was trying to tell the camp, but I expect we'll find out in the next episode.

Clearly, we do. It needs to be spelled out.



Jack will never get kudos for the smart and heroic things he's done on the island. Jack's been saving lives (or trying to, even at the risk of his own) from the very beginning. The man is a spinal surgeon not Patton. He's never patted himself on the back for them either. It's amusing to me that Locke has abandoned all the Losties for the sake of the island, and yet he's considered to be the man who's going to save them. Sawyer hasn't done anything for anyone in three years, but when he finally puts Claire's life ahead of his own, I'm suppose to believe he's the new savior of the island?



People HAVE to talk about Jack, Bella, whether good or bad. That's a good thing. :biggrin:

God Maxum -

Your entire post and responses are so dead on! I love it. And here's the thing, Jack will probably make it back to the island somehow and end up saving everyone ONCE AGAIN, at the expense of his own life, and guess what????? He will STILL get flamed up one side and down the other!! I am going to read more of your posts, because you make the most sense out of what is actually being shown on screen.! THANK YOU for this post!!! It made my day!!:biggrin:
100%
Maxum, you are awesome, woman, I couldn't have done a better job if I tried.

This has been a fun read. People talk so much about Jack, they make me love him even more. I mean, the guy was on for what? 5 minutes at the most? And yeah, he's ev0l, OMG! he's an idiot, he's selfish, he's arrogant, yada, yada, yada.... Nevermind all the great stuff he's done for everybody and the fact that he's kept them alive this long. Nevermind that he was the one who found water, without which they would have died, nevermind he gave his own blood to Boone to try to save him, or that everyone knows the guy has to be drugged to make him take the rest everyone else gets free of worries. Nevermind he's the only O6 in the future actually making an effort (misguided and crazy, as it is) to go back to the island and rescue the people left behind: Kate has clearly stated she doesn't want to go back, Sayid is running around murdering people for Ben, Hurley (whom I adore) has just given up, and Sun is moving on raising her daughter (not that I blame her).

But, no, he's a bad man, a big meanie, an abuser, a traitor, an insensitive SOB....I wonder how the redshirts that went to Otherville feel right about now; oh, wait, that's right, they're all dead. Darn! I guess the island was more important than their average existence, right? Their families will understand, right? "Mrs. Stevens, we regret to inform you and your children, that Mr. Stevens had to die in order to save this landmass. I'm sure, you'll understand because, you see? the land mass is special, it has powers, and currently there's a secret international war to control it between two very powerful, slightly crazy, power hungry guys, so, we had to, you know, let your husband die. Please accept our apologies."

Anyway, to all of you Jack haters out there, thank you for keeping Jack in everyone's minds. I don't think any of his fans could make more people talk about him if we started a full blown advertising campaign. You are all so awesome for keeping Jack front and center, I don't know how to thank you!


And Crazy,

I've always loved your posts too! And this one is no exception. I love your attititude towards some of the crazy things that get said. I tend to agree with everything you said here and I can't wait to see what comes next!!:biggrin:

Doc

Jack does make some dumb decisions, but I can't hold it against him because most were written to either drag things out or move the plot forward, common sense be damned.

Why didn't he want to learn Kate's secret in Tabula Rasa? Because the writers were saving that for a future episode.
Why did he keep the new of the upcoming raid from the Others for so long? See above.
Why didn’t he try to fish information from Juliet about the Other? It goes on.

The need to withhold information from the viewers is an issue with the overall show rather than just Jack alone.

I thought that was odd, too. But because of Jack's recent appendectomy, he, along with the others, may not be able to follow them. I'm thinking his getting sick on the island had to have served some purpose.
Totally!!!!

Jack will stay because Juliet will tell him to, or because he will start feeling sick again. Kate will stay to take care of Jack.
Then, Sayid will show up...

Isn't it that funny that everybody thinks that rescue is coming from that helicopter, when in fact, it is exactly the opposite?

As far as Hurley, Aaron and Sun... I think they are gonna be taken back to the freighter on the helicopter, while Keamy's team are all busy trying to do their dirty job. Frank will say that he will come back for the rest (for some reason, the group will get split).

On their way back to the Freighter, both Frank's chopper and Sayid's boat will witness the sudden destruction of the Kahana....

Keamy's dead.


So what will happen now????? Where are Desmond and Michael???? Did they die in the explosion?

Of course, not!!!!


The camera will pan out to some other part of the ocean and we will see another boat:

PENNY'S.




LOST

i'm sure when Sawyer comes back, he will tell them

It's nice to see people on this thread actually trying to have a discussion and see the reasoning behind some of the situations Jack has been placed in. (he didn't write the eppy's, he just reads what's put in front of him). How about flaming the writers endlessly?! I'll bet it's Jack's fault that gas prices are so high now too.:rolleyes:

However, I believe that Jack has some idea of what is going on and what he's doing, but he just does not want to give up hope that he can and will get everyone off the island. And that is commendable! Instead of just laying down and waiting for the end to come, or going to live in "Othersville" for a while, or say, actually believing anything Ben has to say - he's actually DOING something. It might not be the right thing, and sure he's made some mistakes along the way (haven't they all????) But even at the risk of his own health, and possible death, he has not stopped trying to protect and take care of all of them. How exactly is that a bad thing?

And given the mob mentality they all get sometimes, someone actually needs to raise their voice occasionally to calm the situation down, and get them back on the right track. That person happens to be Jack most of the time, but he's not doing it for himself -- he's doing it for all the Losties. I absolutley, 100% disagree with anyone who says Jack is, or has EVER been abusive to Kate, or any one of them. That is a pretty strong word to say about someone who has never laid a hand on one of them (well, except for Ben, but he REALLY deserved a good beat-down).

All in all, I think he's done a damn good job, given the unbelievably horrible situation he was put into. And I think he continues to do so, and he will continue to until he is back on that island trying to fulfill his promise.

I believe they were and I don't understand why when Danny and red told them they weren't there for them. I would be very skeptical if I was Jack and place my people somewhere safe until I was certain, not lead them to possible death.

Maybe Jack thinks Sayid is on the helicopter coming with help. Is that such a crazy notion considering that Sayid fixed the chopper? Maybe Jack believes that Sayid dropped the sat phone for them to follow. Again, Jack does not know what the viewers know, but he KNOWS that Sayid was on the freighter. Is it such a leap of logic to believe he's on the chopper and not a death squad?

Where the hell is Sawyer when we need him. He's probably going to stop and get his "stuff" first - and a beer.

Jack does make some dumb decisions, but I can't hold it against him because most were written to either drag things out or move the plot forward, common sense be damned.

Why didn't he want to learn Kate's secret in Tabula Rasa? Because the writers were saving that for a future episode.
Why did he keep the new of the upcoming raid from the Others for so long? See above.
Why didn’t he try to fish information from Juliet about the Other? It goes on.

The need to withhold information from the viewers is an issue with the overall show rather than just Jack alone.

This is such a logical post that it doesn't belong here. :biggrin:


However, I believe that Jack has some idea of what is going on and what he's doing, but he just does not want to give up hope that he can and will get everyone off the island. And that is commendable! Instead of just laying down and waiting for the end to come, or going to live in "Othersville" for a while, or say, actually believing anything Ben has to say - he's actually DOING something. It might not be the right thing, and sure he's made some mistakes along the way (haven't they all????) But even at the risk of his own health, and possible death, he has not stopped trying to protect and take care of all of them. How exactly is that a bad thing?

Hey 1DocLover! It's not a bad thing. I would rather be in Jack's camp than with any other Lostie, save Sayid. Jack may make mistakes, like I said, he's not an experienced military commander and the Losties are whining constantly anyway, but at least he is the person who will stand in front of you when the danger comes. He won't be the guy hiding in the tent or "Hey, you're on your own." I would much rather be standing shoulder to shoulder with the guy who will fight to protect and defend rather than save his own butt. Desmond sure isn't coming back to help, now is he? Locke's team has been slaughtered, and he told them to go with him if they wanted to live. Sawyer has been suvivin and saving himself until one week ago. Jack and Sayid have been consistently great. I see those two as friends, and Jack has always deferred to Sayid's judgement. I'm happy that those two are part of the '06 because I really hope they team up to get back. THAT will be awesome.

I agree with you that the losties may not treat the freighties as rescuers, I'm sure in the next episode there might be a serious discussion about whether or not to follow the radar, at least I hope there is.
And you're point about six people holding only so many guns is nitpicking, and like I said the freighties have superior weaponry not in terms of amount of weapons but in terms of firepower. So, six people with fully automatic weapons could easily have the advantage, and the losties have I don't know how many guns but its a few handguns and a few rifles. And remember the attack on the barracks? The sonic fence and houses should have given the losties an advantage but it didn't work, that was a bloodbath, and there were only what six-ten people on Keamy's team.

How did Locke, Ben and company have an advantage? They were the ones being stalked and were put on the defensive. Ben even said that because of Locke's "waiting 5 minutes", they blew their head start.

Keamy and his team going to the barracks is a completely different situation than Jack and the Losties following Frank's GPS coordinates. At the barracks, Keamy and friends were the ones doing the stalking, in camo and Locke and Ben didn't know when they were coming. they were the ones being hunted, and Keamy had the advantage because Ben and Locke were clueless as to the attack, they only thing they knew was an attack was coming.

If, and I say IF, because we don't know it will happen, but if Jack and the Losties follow the GPS coordinates, they will be armed and they will have the advantage because Keamy doesn't know they are coming. That's the advantage, the element of surprise, not how many guns you have. I'm not being nit picky about 6 people having 100 guns, because those 100 guns aren't an advantage because they can't use them all at once, so who cares if they have more guns. The element of surprise is much more advantageous. As I said, they can't be firing the guns continuously once they land, their guards will be down at some point and they wouldn't be expecting the Losties to be launching a stealth attack on them.

You know, people do have a right to not like Jack if they don't want to without a bunch of his defenders jumping into the fray and defending him.

He is basically a good person trying to do the best he can, yes, but he has much baggage and many flaws (as do most of our beloved characters). He has been shown to be the negative things people (and a lot of these people are not shippers from what I can tell) are seeing. Even the people who reviewed the last episode saw what these people are saying generally about Jack. I don't think his statement in CF was as bad as some do, but they can have their opinion. Also, I don't think Jack has been full-out abusive, but he has been shown to have abusive tendencies whether people like the idea or not. His need to control his life and the people and things around him to make himself feel secure is a big part of Jack's personality. His jealousy, obssesiveness, paranoia, insecurity, and his inability to let go of anything, have also played parts in his personality. Jack just does have many unlikeable traits and his likeability quotient has never been high because he lacks humility and warmth, unlike a lot of the other characters whose humanity shines through and makes them likeable (and, no I am not just talking about Sawyer here).

Jack has some good traits, I don't think anyone will deny that, but he is being written as this character we have seen deteriorate and become unlikeable, so that when he redeems himself later in the show we can appreciate his journey that much more. I find myself enjoying Jack's character more than I ever have, and, yes, talking about his character more than I ever have because he has become so much more interesting and challenging. I think Jack fans should appreciate people not liking Jack--it shows the writers are doing their job with his character.

You know, people do have a right to not like Jack if they don't want to without a bunch of his defenders jumping into the fray and defending him.

But the people who like Jack have every right to jump in and defend him too. We don't have to like or agree with your opinion, or accept it without saying a word; and we are absolutely entitled to say so every time you state yours. Are you seriously expecting that we all just shut up and not say anything?

I don't think his statement in CF was as bad as some do, but they can have their opinion.

And we can have ours, and we can state it too and we can point out why we disagree. I really don't see what you're trying to say here. Do you expect that people can come on the board and critisize Jack and people who don't agree with it will just shut up and not write what they think?

I'm sure anyone who favors any other character does exactly the same thing. Jack fans have the same right non-Jack fans do to post what they think. Why does it bother you that we come on threads like this to defend him? Don't you do the same for your favorite?

I think Jack fans should appreciate people not liking Jack--it shows the writers are doing their job with his character.

I've already thanked you all!

You know, people do have a right to not like Jack if they don't want to without a bunch of his defenders jumping into the fray and defending him.

Why does it bother you that some would defend him? It's not like we're making up the examples we are providing to counter the argument.

He is basically a good person trying to do the best he can, yes, but he has much baggage and many flaws (as do most of our beloved characters). Absolutely, and that's what I love about him (and the other characters).

Also, I don't think Jack has been full-out abusive, but he has been shown to have abusive tendencies whether people like the idea or not. Jack has never been abusive, imo. For those of us who have been or seen abuse, it's annoying to see that word tossed around. Arguing or yelling is not abusive behavior at all, and that's what I've seen Jack do in episodes. I can name several characters who have done far worse than Jack's behavior.

His need to control his life and the people and things around him to make himself feel secure is a big part of Jack's personality. His jealousy, obssesiveness, paranoia, insecurity, and his inability to let go of anything, have also played parts in his personality. True.

Jack just does have many unlikeable traits and his likeability quotient has never been high because he lacks humility and warmth, unlike a lot of the other characters whose humanity shines through and makes them likeable (and, no I am not just talking about Sawyer here). Of course there are unlikeable traits in Jack, as there are for all the other characters. However, your opinion about his likeability quotient is your opinion. It's nice to watch Lost with people who never go on the Internet because they are not tainted by the stuff that appears on it. All the people (at home and work) that I watch and discuss Lost with like or love Jack. They are completely oblivious to the stuff that pops up on the boards. Jack is not one of the flashier characters on Lost. He doesn't get the funny one-liners, the fight scenes, ect., but he tends to be the character that most can identify with, at least from the rather large group of people I watch and discuss Lost with on a regular basis. He's the regular guy who's completely out of his element, and trying to do his best to help and survive. He screws up, and he makes bad decisions sometimes, but he also makes smart decisions, and he will risk and sacrifice his life for people. He yells, he cries, he gets frustrated, and he laughs at himself. He can drive you insane, and he can make you root for him. That's what I hear from people who talk about him.

Jack has some good traits, I don't think anyone will deny that, but he is being written as this character we have seen deteriorate and become unlikeable, Not at all. Can't agree with that assessment. Yes, we've seen Jack spiral downward in the FF, but become unlikeable? Again, that's your opinion.

so that when he redeems himself later in the show we can appreciate his journey that much more. I find myself enjoying Jack's character more than I ever have, and, yes, talking about his character more than I ever have because he has become so much more interesting and challenging. I think Jack fans should appreciate people not liking Jack--it shows the writers are doing their job with his character.Oh, I have always appreciated the Jack haters. The fact that Jack can generate numerous threads and pages of discussion based on a less than five minute appearance says it all.

I don't have a problem with people who don't like Jack. People like who they like. I have a problem with people who make statements about the character that are false. Jack beat up a woman? Never happened. I have a problem with people who make sweeping statements about a character as if they have spoken with every Lost fan in the world and have come to a conclusion about his popularity or lack thereof. Imaginary Lost is a whole other brand of Lost fandom. Luckily, there is so much proof: dialogue, scenes, producer interviews - that can negate it, so it's all good.

Jack may or may not have misread Daniel's intentions--we'll soon find out. Jack may figure out something is askew--the very fact that a bag was thrown out of the copter, rather than the copter landing and the crew saying, "Hey, follow us." is suspicious. It may turn out that Frank's intention is to have some manpower come to help him stop Keamy from doing what he is planning to do. Staying away from Keamy at this point, who is apparently going to torch the island (whatever that means), might be the wrong course of action. The more I think of it, I don't think the writers are setting Jack up to be a buffoon for the finale. I think they are setting Jack up for some heroic actions. He might lose some redshirts, but that's to be expected.

Jack has some good traits, I don't think anyone will deny that, but he is being written as this character we have seen deteriorate and become unlikeable, so that when he redeems himself later in the show we can appreciate his journey that much more. I find myself enjoying Jack's character more than I ever have, and, yes, talking about his character more than I ever have because he has become so much more interesting and challenging. I think Jack fans should appreciate people not liking Jack--it shows the writers are doing their job with his character.
I agree to a cetain point,but I've always thought Jack was one of the least interesting characters on the show. But I like the writers have a main character on a show who is convinced he is right and is consistently not. Leading to the statement only Jack could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I do think Jack, suicidal, addicted, jealous, and possessive in the flashfowards is interesting.

Jack may or may not have misread Daniel's intentions--we'll soon find out. Jack may figure out something is askew--the very fact that a bag was thrown out of the copter, rather than the copter landing and the crew saying, "Hey, follow us." is suspicious. It may turn out that Frank's intention is to have some manpower come to help him stop Keamy from doing what he is planning to do. Staying away from Keamy at this point, who is apparently going to torch the island (whatever that means), might be the wrong course of action. The more I think of it, I don't think the writers are setting Jack up to be a buffoon for the finale. I think they are setting Jack up for some heroic actions. He might lose some redshirts, but that's to be expected.

Yeah, I'm curious to see how all the '06 end up together, considering they are all separated at this point. Jack, Kate, and Sun are in one place. Sayid is enroute on the boat, and Hurley is still with Locke and Ben.

Naturally, things are not going to go well since only six people make it off, but I'm curious to see how we get to that point. I have to wait and see what happens with the Losties after Frank drops the sat phone and what he expects them to do.

My biggest question about this scene (maybe it's been discussed?) is wouldn't Keamy & Co. see the torches, fires and people on the beach as they flew over?

My biggest question about this scene (maybe it's been discussed?) is wouldn't Keamy & Co. see the torches, fires and people on the beach as they flew over?


I thought of this, and I think they did, but I also think they still have their primary target, Ben, in mind, and I don't think the secondary protocol has Ben heading to Lostie Beach.

I thought of this, and I think they did, but I also think they still have their primary target, Ben, in mind, and I don't think the secondary protocol has Ben heading to Lostie Beach.

I agree, Ben's really the only one resident on the island that really knows what's going on so if they take him out, they've really beheaded the opposition. Its really hard to win a battle if you don't know who the enemy is or what his objectives are and the 815's are clueless at this point. The Losties really can only assume a defense stance as far as I can see.

While Jack's line about following them isn't deathless prose, I don't have a problem with it per se. The chopper pilot's plan was by default seat of the pants and couldn't be too complex... so giving them the phone was pretty good with no time to pull anything else together. So you get this sat phone dropped from the sky, you know that there a problem with getting to/from the island.. calling 911 doesn't seem practical...so who you gonna call -- Ghostbusters... wait Miles is there and you aren't sure he's one your side... Okay, you don't know if the phone was intended for Daniel and Charlotte or the 815 survivors... The way it was delivered tells you it equates to a change in plan... so probably done at risk to whoever dropped it... so what are you gonna do... it's got a tracking signal... call a meeting of the high council and talk through the possibilities or give it your best guess and go for it?

hmmmm, Go for it Jack!
squid

ahem, this is not the "It's all good" section for Jack love, neither is this the "Not that into you" section for Jack hate. discuss the points and leave out your personal fan mantra about the character, whether it is hate or love. FWIW i think most of the posters here are getting quite tired of every thread turning into a shipper/fandom war.

I think that they're meant to follow - then when Keamy and company go off to torch the island.. Frank can take off with three of them in the helicopter (I'm thinking Kate, Sun and the baby) since he told Sayid that's all he can carry at once... Then Sayid shows up about the same time and takes Jack, because he's prone to infection and needs to get off the island.. and Hurley.. for some reason, this is the one that confuses me.. why Hurley?? Then, after they get the six of them to the freighter, the island moves with the Losties and Keamy and Co. and they can't find their way back...

ahem, this is not the "It's all good" section for Jack love, neither is this the "Not that into you" section for Jack hate. discuss the points and leave out your personal fan mantra about the character, whether it is hate or love. FWIW i think most of the posters here are getting quite tired of every thread turning into a shipper/fandom war.

At last!!!!! Why did it take you so long?;)

As soon as he said this all that I said out loud was......

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOONG.

Silly move me thinks, its a shame frank couldn't warn them properly with a note, but because he was, well, held at gunpoint basically he had to dash!

I think that they're meant to follow - then when Keamy and company go off to torch the island.. Frank can take off with three of them in the helicopter (I'm thinking Kate, Sun and the baby) since he told Sayid that's all he can carry at once...Frank said that because the helicopter was low on fuel. We've since seen (with the mercenaries) he can carry at least five when all gassed up.

If Jack & co. think to look thru the papers that were in the pack with the phone thing, they'd probably learn something....
As to why Hurley, that bugs me, too. How's he going to get from the cabin to the beach or wherever the Losties end up when the 06 are nabbed? And it looks from the preview as if they're in the cargo hold of an airplane. I don't think they ever get to the freighter at all, which is why Sayid took the little boat, right? To bring some Losties back, as 'the only way to save our lives'.. what was that about????.

It's nice to see people on this thread actually trying to have a discussion and see the reasoning behind some of the situations Jack has been placed in. (he didn't write the eppy's, he just reads what's put in front of him). How about flaming the writers endlessly?! I'll bet it's Jack's fault that gas prices are so high now too.:rolleyes:

However, I believe that Jack has some idea of what is going on and what he's doing, but he just does not want to give up hope that he can and will get everyone off the island. And that is commendable! Instead of just laying down and waiting for the end to come, or going to live in "Othersville" for a while, or say, actually believing anything Ben has to say - he's actually DOING something. It might not be the right thing, and sure he's made some mistakes along the way (haven't they all????) But even at the risk of his own health, and possible death, he has not stopped trying to protect and take care of all of them. How exactly is that a bad thing?

And given the mob mentality they all get sometimes, someone actually needs to raise their voice occasionally to calm the situation down, and get them back on the right track. That person happens to be Jack most of the time, but he's not doing it for himself -- he's doing it for all the Losties. I absolutley, 100% disagree with anyone who says Jack is, or has EVER been abusive to Kate, or any one of them. That is a pretty strong word to say about someone who has never laid a hand on one of them (well, except for Ben, but he REALLY deserved a good beat-down).

All in all, I think he's done a damn good job, given the unbelievably horrible situation he was put into. And I think he continues to do so, and he will continue to until he is back on that island trying to fulfill his promise.

That's one thing that's been consistent of Jack: he never gives up the hope of the Losties, even if misguided at times. People always need hope and even when things look bleak, he never wavers in keeping the hope alive. He gets berated for his actions, but he has always put the well being of the Losties first and foremost, even when sick.

"I think they want us to follow them." is a far cry from "Let's follow them." I don't think Jack trusts what is happening, evidenced by his line to Faraday, and I think that the O6 will end up saved much to their own chagrin.

Jack is the leader -- he has, since his "Live together, die alone" speech, had one singular goal, save these people. He is a man of science and has never faltered from needing concrete evidence. He is still resolute in being the hero his father said he was not cut out to be. And I don't see anything that he has done that has wavered from his character. Is he right all the time? No. But if he was he'd be superhuman and vastly annoying.

I'm more than willing to wait until next week to see how he acts before calling him stupid...

"I think they want us to follow them." is a far cry from "Let's follow them." I don't think Jack trusts what is happening, evidenced by his line to Faraday, and I think that the O6 will end up saved much to their own chagrin.

Jack is the leader -- he has, since his "Live together, die alone" speech, had one singular goal, save these people. He is a man of science and has never faltered from needing concrete evidence. He is still resolute in being the hero his father said he was not cut out to be. And I don't see anything that he has done that has wavered from his character. Is he right all the time? No. But if he was he'd be superhuman and vastly annoying.

I'm more than willing to wait until next week to see how he acts before calling him stupid...

Great points benster... I agree as well, he is going by what he knows and well, he knows that the freighties arent planning to rescue them at all, but he at least foresaw that the helicopter would return

So, regardless of the intentions of who is ON it... that sat phone can be very useful in finding it (and hell, avoiding Keamy). And regardless of that even, finding it, is one helluva hope for the Losties, albeit a dangerous longshot (the danger of which is only known to us, frank, and sayid right now, by the way. Don't bash jack just because he wasnt there to hear Keamy's fire plan).

Suppose Jack were to use the phone to call Frank, what's Frank going to do? Answer it in front of Keamy and his crew? Somehow, I think that wasn't Frank's intention at all.

Suppose Jack were to use the phone to call Frank, what's Frank going to do? Answer it in front of Keamy and his crew? Somehow, I think that wasn't Frank's intention at all.
As Frank pointed out they can't kill him, he's the only pilot they have, that becomes even more true when they arrive on the island. So Frank could pick up the phone and tell Jack, they're coming to kill you. I don't think he will because that was Frank's phone. And Keamy isn't exactly in the best mental state right now, anybody who on a military operation kills the team's only doctor isn't in good mental health or thinking about the consequences of his actions, so Keamy could kill Frank since his single minded objective is to get Ben and kill everyone on the island.

I heard it as "I think they want us to phone them..." :redface:

As Frank pointed out they can't kill him, he's the only pilot they have, that becomes even more true when they arrive on the island. So Frank could pick up the phone and tell Jack, they're coming to kill you. I don't think he will because that was Frank's phone. And Keamy isn't exactly in the best mental state right now, anybody who on a military operation kills the team's only doctor isn't in good mental health or thinking about the consequences of his actions, so Keamy could kill Frank since his single minded objective is to get Ben and kill everyone on the island.

I wasn't thinking about Keamy killing Frank. I was thinking that if Jack called Frank, the secrecy of Frank's actions would go out the window. Frank went through some planning when he decided to drop a package for the Losties, so I don't think part of his plan is to be outed. If he picks up a call from Jack any element of surprise the Losties might have on Keamy will be completely gone.

I think calling Frank is the worst idea possible.

I wasn't thinking about Keamy killing Frank. I was thinking that if Jack called Frank, the secrecy of Frank's actions would go out the window. Frank went through some planning when he decided to drop a package for the Losties, so I don't think part of his plan is to be outed. If he picks up a call from Jack any element of surprise the Losties might have on Keamy will be completely gone.

I think calling Frank is the worst idea possible.
Jack calling Frank is the worst idea possible which is why he'll do it, just kidding I couldn't resist. I took Frank's maneuver to mean, avoid this area that is where we're going. And given Keamy's precarious mental state and the fact that he shot two people on the boat, him killing Frank is a very real, if remote possibility. Keamy can't because he won't have anyone to fly the helicopter, but that might not matter to him.

I hate to be disagreeable (with most everyone here), but I think Jack's presumption is spot on 100% correct.

Michael has just very emphatically informed Frank that Keamy is planning on killing "everyone on that Island... EVERYONE!!" And he has just watched 1st hand as Keamy murdered two of his own crew mates just to get back to that Island. He knows he has no chance to save the Losties short of commiting suicide by power diving the chopper into the ocean (and this may not even be effective depending on whether Keamy has a dead man's switch on his arm). The reason Frank dropped that phone is because he needs help from the Losties to stop Keamy.

IMO Frank absolutely wanted/needed the Losties to follow him to wherever they were going. :)

my first thought when seeing this scene was "run you idiots, its a bomb"

then he pulled the phone out and i immediately thought that the heli pilot must have thrown it out to warn them and show them the location..

then i got thinking about it, how could a helicoptor pilot throw something out? surely he would have to be the back to do so.. its not like the helicoptor was out of control and they needed to lose weight either as it seemed under control.

perhaps the phone is not to help them track the helicoptor, but rather so the soldiers can track them.

edit: and now ive just rewatched it and realised it probs was the phone the pilot put in a bag, missed that first time

I can't remember what keamy said about which "hatch" he wanted to go to, is it the swan? But he was headed there because he said that is where ben would be. He's assuming that Ben is hiding from them by now and the swan is obviously like a bomb shelter where he would be safe no matter what happens on the island. I don't think that lupidus knows this, but he sent that phone to jack to follow them. In something nice back home, when he was running through the jungle and ran into sawyer, i think he was running toward the beach to warn them about what was going on at the barracks. there are like 6 mercenaries and the whole load of survivors (with guns), so maybe he wants jack and the beach people to come and help stop keamy.

my theory about jack is that he obviously became sick because the island was not happy with the fact that he was trying to get everyone off the island and not being concerned about the welfare of the island. After he had an easy easy surgery, he is up and eating which is very unlikely. Soooo, now that he has changed his mind about the helicopter people when he said he knows they're lying, he will do anything to help his people survive the island. I think the island has gotten exactly what they wanted from jack. he's not just thinking about leaving the island, he's now thinking of protecting the island.

I think that jack will recover from his surgery like locke recovered from being shot. and there is no way on God's green earth that Jack will not join the posse that takes them into following the signal! Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Sayid, Jin, Juliet, all the rebels will be there to fight for the island.

I can't remember what keamy said about which "hatch" he wanted to go to, is it the swan?

The Swan is kaput. Screenshots of the secondary protocol reveal a new DHARMA logo.

I don't think Jack is gonna get well right away, in fact I'm guessing that his surgery and disobeying dr's orders eating right after surgery are gonna cramp his style and he's not going to be able to take as active a part as he'd like too. One more thing he feels guilty about.
squid

It's the stalking of Sarah that I think shows Jack at his worst. He's definitely capable of making bad decisions. I don't know. I would think that Jack would be at least suspicious of this group on the helicopter. He's suspicious enough of Charlotte and Daniel at this point, so I don't think he'd put all of his eggs in that basket. But, what other choice does he have really? Unless Sayid shows up pretty quick, I think they're going follow the chopper. Maybe the group will once again be divided as the O6 say they're not going to follow the chopper and remain on the beach when Sayid arrives.

***Mod edited to remove reply to deleted post***

As to whether or not Jack will correctly interpret Frank's intentions, I need more information before I can decide that. We saw Frank scribble something on a note and shove it into the bag with the phone, but we don't know what he wrote. I guess we'll find out in the next episode.

Let me quote halfrek...

ahem, this is not the "It's all good" section for Jack love, neither is this the "Not that into you" section for Jack hate. discuss the points and leave out your personal fan mantra about the character, whether it is hate or love. FWIW i think most of the posters here are getting quite tired of every thread turning into a shipper/fandom war.

My biggest question about this scene (maybe it's been discussed?) is wouldn't Keamy & Co. see the torches, fires and people on the beach as they flew over?
That is a good point.

But if "torching the Island" means something will take everything and everybody on it or near it out, Keamy probably doesn't care about the torches and fires on the beach.
As Frank pointed out they can't kill him, he's the only pilot they have, that becomes even more true when they arrive on the island. So Frank could pick up the phone and tell Jack, they're coming to kill you. I don't think he will because that was Frank's phone. And Keamy isn't exactly in the best mental state right now, anybody who on a military operation kills the team's only doctor isn't in good mental health or thinking about the consequences of his actions, so Keamy could kill Frank since his single minded objective is to get Ben and kill everyone on the island.
I'm so glad you mentioned that...because wouldn't it be great if somehow Frank had gotten Keamy's phone (without Keamy realizing it's gone), and Keamy's phone is the one dropped in the bag.

Frank could drop Keamy&squad at their destination, taking off as soon as they unload from the chopper, and fly somewhere else...calling Jack on the way.

That's the best scenario that I can think of, short of Locke somehow moving The Island, but that probably wouldn't be a good idea with Keamy&squad on it.

I got into this line of thinking because if Keamy still has his phone, Jack having Frank's phone (or anyone's phone, presumably) would pinpoint Jack/Losties' location. The phones all show the location of the other phones. Right? But again, Keamy may not care about the Jack/Losties location if he's going to "torch the Island", taking everyone and everything out.

Oh my poor head. :biggrin:

I thought it was a pretty silly conclusion for Jack to make, but then again he doesn't have the information we do. My problem is that he vacillates between trusting that the freighties will secure rescue, and saying that they'll deal with them (a la the Others' raid). I just don't get the impression that he really knows how to handle the situation, like he wants to keep the hope of rescue alive so much (while facing mounting evidence that the freighties are in fact hostile and not going to help them) that he's almost got blinkers on to the reality of what's happening around them. How many times does Dan have to say they don't intend to rescue them? What of Doc Ray's body washing up with a slit throat? What about no word from Sayid and Des for a week?

I blame the writers. Clearly they want a post-op Jack and company to go traipsing off recklessly into the jungle to meet the helicopter and murderous mercs simply because they need to for the story to be dramatic and perilous etc.

I agree with you here. Unless Sayid shows up soon Jack's not going to have a choice but to follow.

That's the best scenario that I can think of, short of Locke somehow moving The Island, but that probably wouldn't be a good idea with Keamy&squad on it.

I got into this line of thinking because if Keamy still has his phone, Jack having Frank's phone (or anyone's phone, presumably) would pinpoint Jack/Losties' location. The phones all show the location of the other phones. Right? But again, Keamy may not care about the Jack/Losties location if he's going to "torch the Island", taking everyone and everything out.

Oh my poor head. :biggrin:
I think Locke moving the island would be avantageous to the losties in one way, Keamy and the gang would be stuck like them, they wouldn't have anywhere to go and wouldn't be able to go back for more supplies like weapons. And now that you mention it, if Keamy does figure out that Frank dropped his phone he could use it to track the losties, but I think Frank's plan was spur of the moment and meant as a way of saying, we're here don't go in this direction.

I think he meant, "we are here, come and take down the crazies". He, he.

I think it's the only logical conclusion you can come to in that situation.

I read a few pages of this thread and all the Jack bashing and it seems like everyone here assumes that just because Jack comes to that conclusion that he'll just pack up everyone to blindly and foolishly follow the blinking dot.

Give him some credit at least. Even if he thinks it's only Sayid on the copter he'll take precautions.

I think Locke moving the island would be avantageous to the losties in one way, Keamy and the gang would be stuck like them, they wouldn't have anywhere to go and wouldn't be able to go back for more supplies like weapons.

What if Keamy can "torch the Island" even after it's being moved (or has been moved)?

And now that you mention it, if Keamy does figure out that Frank dropped his phone he could use it to track the losties, but I think Frank's plan was spur of the moment and meant as a way of saying, we're here don't go in this direction.

I think he meant, "we are here, come and take down the crazies". He, he.
I like both of these. Presumably, Michael told Frank that the Losties have some weapons (guns).

I just had a thought (uh oh, better stop posting ;) )...I wonder if Frank knows about Smokey? He flew Keamy&squad-with-1-injured-badly back to the freighter, after bringing the first aid kit to them in the jungle...but somehow I doubt that Keamy filled him in, nor would Keamy let his squad fill him in. But Keamy did go below deck after they got to the freighter, and Frank went to talk to Michael...

Does Michael know about Smokey, and if so, did he fill Frank in? Those are either good questions, or I am tired. ;)

I think it's the only logical conclusion you can come to in that situation.

I read a few pages of this thread and all the Jack bashing and it seems like everyone here assumes that just because Jack comes to that conclusion that he'll just pack up everyone to blindly and foolishly follow the blinking dot.

Give him some credit at least. Even if he thinks it's only Sayid on the copter he'll take precautions.
Like leading everyone on a hastily planned, emotion fuled rescue mission in which they could be easily captured only to realize to late that it's a trap? I'm sorry I couldn't resist. You're right though he might come up with a plan. But everyone who has been "Jack-Bashing, and yes some of it is unnecessary, makes a good point. Granted, we as the audience have more information but everyone who assumes that Jack will lead everyone to the helicopter believes so because throughout the entire season even when presented with evidence to the contrary he has assumed that the freighties are there to rescue them, so they're going on precedent. I hope he doesn't, I don't want to see another, Jack makes a hasty plan, somebody warns him of the dangers, he ignores them and everything the person warned him about comes to pass.

Did anyone else think this was the stupidest conclusion that Jack could have ever come up with? :rolleyes:

I'll answer before reading anymore posts....YES. the only freighties they've met so far have done nothing but lie, lie, lie.....so, let's follow the beeping thingy they tossed from the heli. BRILLIANT!

I'm more than willing to wait until next week to see how he acts before calling him stupid...For what its worth, I never said Jack was stupid, just this most recent conclusion.

Then again after reading this whole thread I'm starting to think this wasn't actually the stupidest one he has come up with. :rolleyes:

What if Keamy can "torch the Island" even after it's being moved (or has been moved)?
;)
I took the torch the island phrase to be a metaphor for kill the enemy, a military term like shock and awe, scorched earth policy, pacification, etc. But give the nature of Lost and the Dharma Stations there could be something on the island which would allow Keamy to torch the wildlife, like U.S. plan in Vietnam with agent orange. But the advantage of moving the island is it puts Keamy and company on the defensive, eventually they will run out of ammo and even more basic essentials like food. All of the men, including Keamy accepted the mission with the presumption that they would be able to leave the island. Panic could set in if they're stuck there, even with that helicopter how far can they travel?

Remember in TMBTC, when it flashes back to Horace talking to Ben's dad and you can hear all of these blasts in the background. What if Locke moves the island back to the 1970s during the Dharma Initiative? What if the blasts we hear are Keamy and co. "torching the island"? Just throwing out a wild possibility. But I'm probably way off. I've always wondered what those "background blasts" were?

For what its worth, I never said Jack was stupid, just this most recent conclusion.

I wasn't pinpointing your comments, just the thread as a whole. Too often we lose sight that our knowledge of everything else happening and what we would do in the same situation can blind us to how a character thinks and reacts. I, personally, don't think Jack has changed in his motivations. Didn't we all know last season that when Ben and Locke warned Jack not to call the freighter and he didn't listen that it was going to bite him in the rear? But that is Jack.

I didn't think it was a stupid conclusion to come to. What else could it mean? The best way for Frank to tell them NOT to come there would be to do nothing and leave them alone. Then they'd never be the wiser.

Frank is telling them were the chopper is going to be folks. where RESCUE is going to be. He wants to leave Keamy and get . . . OH about 6 people off the island.

I made that connection as soon as Frank told Sayid how many people he could transport at once.

Well, I'm no paramilitary expert or anything, but if I was Jack and someone threw down a sat phone with it's locator beacon flashing telling me exactly where that someone was going, I would assume they're telling me, "Yeah, follow me". Of course, I'd probably blow the whole plan and try to call the person and confirm and totally blow his cover, but, yeah....

Every once in a while you run into some what we can call "contrived" writing. This, I think, was an example of it. An unknown person in a helicopter throwing down an unknown, BEEPING object is going to make most of the audience think "BOMB! You IDJIT - Don't pick it up!!!!" - Especially when the bad guys have been talking about torching the island.

But, then again, what could you do, as Jack? Ignore it? Put your head in the sand? The only way to get any more information is to find out what it means.

Well, I'm no paramilitary expert or anything, but if I was Jack and someone threw down a sat phone with it's locator beacon flashing telling me exactly where that someone was going, I would assume they're telling me, "Yeah, follow me". Of course, I'd probably blow the whole plan and try to call the person and confirm and totally blow his cover, but, yeah....

Every once in a while you run into some what we can call "contrived" writing. This, I think, was an example of it. An unknown person in a helicopter throwing down an unknown, BEEPING object is going to make most of the audience think "BOMB! You IDJIT - Don't pick it up!!!!" - Especially when the bad guys have been talking about torching the island.

But, then again, what could you do, as Jack? Ignore it? Put your head in the sand? The only way to get any more information is to find out what it means.
The reason people are saying it's a stupid decision is because the mounting evidence Jack has received that the freighties aren't there to rescue them. I'll try not to Jack bash in my response. He was told by Faraday, as a matter of fact the first thing Faraday told him was that rescuing them wasn't their primary objective, and was later told by one of the freighties that they had no intention of rescuing them, has caught them in a series of evasions and half truths, hasn't heard from Sayid or Desmond in, what's it been a week, I have a hard time keeping up with how many days they have been gone, he finds a body from the freighter with a slit throat. That is strong evidence that the people on the freighter should be doubted, so, I think they want us to follow them is a stupid conclusion to reach. I think Jack is letting his desire for rescue, and his need to "fix things" as Ben said get in the way of his better judgement. And before the Jack fans jump down my throat, I think Jack's rather single minded tunnel vision towards getting everyone rescued is intentional on the part of the writers, he's not just a suicidal drug addicted in the future because he left people on the island but also because the decisions he made caused them to be left behind.

I don't think one can say Jack is ignoring the dangers or that he doesn't know the Freighties are bad. He's acknowledge that he knows they are lying, he doesn't trust them (went running after Charlotte and Dan when they disappeared), and he was one of the first ones demanding that Charlotte and Dan contacted the freighter to hear from Sayid.

He explained it all in SNBH, he knows they are lying but these are the only people with the means to actually get off the island, a helicopter, a freighter and now that Sayid is coming back, a zodiac. To not try to pursue some way in which the Losties could take advantage of all these resources would be stupid, IMO.

I think no one can deny that very few people want to stay on the island, even if we know that they'll have to come back because there's some huge destiny to be fulfilled. What I'm seeing is that Jack is still trying to find a way to keep his promise to get "all of them" off the island. Whether he is successful or not, and whether his methods are the best can be argued back and forth forever, but I do agree with the guy that hiding out from the Freighties accomplishes nothing, and might get them all killed in the end because we DO know that Keamy is out to torch the island. Someone's got to stop him.

Someone's got to try to get that helicopter put to use for the Losties rescue. All Jack is doing is trying to get everyone off. He'll fail, we know that, but what I wholeheartedly disagree with is that his efforts to try to use the Freighties resources somehow means that he trusts them and is all honky dory with them. I'm not seeing that at all.

Someone's got to try to get that helicopter put to use for the Losties rescue. All Jack is doing is trying to get everyone off. He'll fail, we know that, but what I wholeheartedly disagree with is that his efforts to try to use the Freighties resources somehow means that he trusts them and is all honky dory with them. I'm not seeing that at all.
Well, my point was that Jack is so obsessed with rescue that he can't see anything beyond that and it is clouding his judgement. I remember an interview with Matthew Fox where he said that Jack wants to get everyone rescued and that is to a fault and that Jack hasn't thought too much beyond rescue. And just how would the losties take the helicopter(and I know that in this episode he doesn't know about Keamy and the attack on New Otherton) but Keamy's men have more firepower. And granted Frank is definitely on the side of not killing the losties, but if anything happens to him everyone is screwed. While you may be correct that he doesn't think that everything is hunky dory with the freighties, even though he has convinced himself, or seems to have convinced himself that the freighties are somehow going to rescue them when the hard evidence says otherwise.

Well, my point was that Jack is so obsessed with rescue that he can't see anything beyond that and it is clouding his judgement. I remember an interview with Matthew Fox where he said that Jack wants to get everyone rescued and that is to a fault and that Jack hasn't thought too much beyond rescue. And just how would the losties take the helicopter(and I know that in this episode he doesn't know about Keamy and the attack on New Otherton) but Keamy's men have more firepower. And granted Frank is definitely on the side of not killing the losties, but if anything happens to him everyone is screwed. While you may be correct that he doesn't think that everything is hunky dory with the freighties, even though he has convinced himself, or seems to have convinced himself that the freighties are somehow going to rescue them when the hard evidence says otherwise.

I think, more to the point that was made, that since the freighter and the helicopter are the only transports available, in Jack's mind he has to get to them. And, as we saw at the end of last season, he will fight all the way to get it. He didn't back down to the Others, he's not going to back down now. For all he knows, Sayid and Desmond are also on the helicopter and may have taken it over. He doesn't know. But I also think that he will do whatever he can to get off the island -- which is the antithesis of how he will be once he returns to civilization and do whatever he can to get back on the island.

Oh, the irony!

Has anybody questioned how he managed to throw a bag out of a fast moving helicopter, without the other passengers