Just a clarification . . . Sun thinks Mr. Paik and who else are responsible for Jin's death?

Widmore?

I don't really see that boat lasting too much longer. I think either Desmond or Michael are going to be held accountable. Mike already has enough problems so I think Desmond is going to have to deal with this one.

Both her Father and Sun herself are responsible for his death.

Probably whomever put that bomb on the boat... ostensively Widmore, I'm thinking.

Michael.

I don't think we know yet who Sun is going to blame for Jin's death. I mean, we don't actually know if Jin IS dead. Although it sure is looking ominous...

Jack. Notice how Sun was the only one of the O6 not at his father's funeral.

I would imagine that Sun is back home by now and wouldn't travel back for the funeral, maybe.
My guess would be Widmore.

This should really be a poll. I think she blames either Jack or Michael in addition to her father.

Totally JAck.

That explains Hurley and her not wanting to see them, as in not wanting to see Kate and Aaron because of Jack, while Sayid is MIA kicking *** with Benjamin.

Jack. Notice how Sun was the only one of the O6 not at his father's funeral.

Well, that could be because she was in Korea. I didn't notice her at Hurley's party either.

Jack. Notice how Sun was the only one of the O6 not at his father's funeral.

Good eye, RR! If it is Jack, I wonder why. Does he order Jin to stay on the boat or something?

Hmmm. My first thought was herself. Then I thought Keamy. But maybe she'll lay it at Widmore's door. I don't see her blaming Michael.

I think she blames herself, thought those would be the next words out of her mouth after she accused her father. Maybe Sun blames herself for the circumstances that got them on the plane to begin with...

Hanso (via Mittlewerk)/ Widmore/ Paik-three very powerful peas in a pod and doing business as shown in TLE. And don't forget about the island "screensaver" (cam?) on Paik's office computer monitors back in the day...but sure, I'll agree it could be one of the realtime actors like Jack...too early to tell...but good lookin' out RR...(<>..<>)

Maybe Sun blames herself for the circumstances that got them on the plane to begin with...

She blames her father for those circumstances, literally, in that same scene. That's why she says he's responsible for Jin's death.

I think I'm leaning toward Jack. Just a hunch . . . eventually Jack will probably blame himself for it all anyway.

Paik is one, who is the other??

Sun has to keep up the story that Jin died in the plane crash, so who is she referring to here?? It's possible that part of the official cover-up story attributed the crash to pilot error, but even then that seems like an odd thing for her to say in that situation.

Yet, Jin died in the crash, so she can't be referring to Keamy, Ben, Michael, Jack, or anyone else on the island/freighter...UNLESS Paik is in on the cover-up, and Sun knows it. I think we were just handed a big clue that this is exactly the case.

My money's on Widmore. I think she got control of her father's company to punish him, but also to use as a tool to get revenge on Widmore. Plus she seems to be a "big picture" type of person, and would go after the root of the problem.

The other person might be herself. Perhaps something she does leads to Jin's death. If he really is dead. It's looking more likely.

Paik is one, who is the other??

Sun has to keep up the story that Jin died in the plane crash, so who is she referring to here?? It's possible that part of the official cover-up story attributed the crash to pilot error, but even then that seems like an odd thing for her to say in that situation.

Yet, Jin died in the crash, so she can't be referring to Keamy, Ben, Michael, Jack, or anyone else on the island/freighter...UNLESS Paik is in on the cover-up, and Sun knows it. I think we were just handed a big clue that this is exactly the case.

She could easily be referring to any of those people without Paik being in on the cover-up. She doesn't tell him WHO the other person is...and there's no indication that she will. For all he knows, she could be talking about the pilot.

Paik is one, who is the other??

Sun has to keep up the story that Jin died in the plane crash, so who is she referring to here?? It's possible that part of the official cover-up story attributed the crash to pilot error, but even then that seems like an odd thing for her to say in that situation.

Yet, Jin died in the crash, so she can't be referring to Keamy, Ben, Michael, Jack, or anyone else on the island/freighter...UNLESS Paik is in on the cover-up, and Sun knows it. I think we were just handed a big clue that this is exactly the case.

Since she didn't name the other person and probably never will, she could be referring to any of them. I think it's Michael she'll be blaming in her own mind. Will she tell anyone other than the other O6? Doubt it but we'll hopefully find out in two weeks. :biggrin:

She could easily be referring to any of those people without Paik being in on the cover-up. She doesn't tell him WHO the other person is...and there's no indication that she will. For all he knows, she could be talking about the pilot.

But if I'm Paik and have no idea about the cover-up, the way she worded that would raise some red flags to me. At the very least I'd be wondering who the hell she thought the other person was. Like I said, the pilot is a possibility, but it's a pretty odd thing to say (and a lot of times, even if a huge airline crash is caused by pilot error, it will be extremely downplayed so that the pilot's family doesn't have to not only lose a loved one, but know that his mistake killed hundreds of other people).

I guess I didn't really word my original post that well--I'm not really that worried about WHO exactly the other person is for now, but more considering the significance of that line and the way Sun said it. It really jumped out at me

I'm leaning towards Jack too, but its just a hunch.

How horrible was it when she had to tell everyone he never made it off the plane? That was just painful. :(

Well, that could be because she was in Korea. I didn't notice her at Hurley's party either.


Yeah, she's the only one of the O6 that doesn't live in LA!!


I started another thread on this, but I don't think that WHO exactly it is is as important as the fact that she said that. Remember, the official story is that Jin died in the crash--so how could Jack or Keamy or anyone else be to blame for that?? I think this is a clue that Paik is in on the cover-up, and that Sun knows it.

Nope, you're all wrong. The other person she's blaming for Jin's death is Jin.

That's my bet, anyway.

-AJF

Why do you guys think she'd blame Jack? She didn't seem inordinately ticked at him on the plane. Whoever it is, I think she might be out for his blood.

Both her Father and Sun herself are responsible for his death.

Agreed.

I think she blames herself, thought those would be the next words out of her mouth after she accused her father. Maybe Sun blames herself for the circumstances that got them on the plane to begin with...

I came away from that scene thinking she said two *men*. Did she use a gender-neutral word?

-AJF

I think she blames Widmore. Perhaps Mr. Paik worked with him to get Jin on the island, much like Widmore had a hand in getting Desmond onto the island, to separate him from Penny.

Jack. Notice how Sun was the only one of the O6 not at his father's funeral.

I agree. I had noticed the cold looks she was giving him. And the anxious ones that Jack was giving her.

I think it's Jack. I don't see Sun blaming Widmore since I don't think she knew the whole scope of how he was involved at that point.

Agreed.


Exactly how is Sun responsible for Jin's death? Because she wanted to return to Korea? We don't even know how Jin is supposed to die.

Jack. Notice how Sun was the only one of the O6 not at his father's funeral.

Although it seemed Christian's funeral happened fairly recently after the return of the O6, Sun could have been on flight restriction because of her pregnancy.

The first name I thought of when Sun said that "two people" line was Ben. It would be more dramatic if she were to blame Jack, though - the question of reconciliation would be out there fore next season.

Note: at this point, I believe that, at the very least, FutureSun thinks Jin is dead. I won't believe he is until I see the body.

I'm intrigued by who the second person is as well.
But given what we know solely from what was presented on screen, I think it's too early to tell. We know that the "story" was that Jin perished immediately in the crash. We also don't know to what extent Sun is truly aware about any kind of Widmore and/or Paik involvement with everything that has gone on. All we are aware of is that Sun had been on the beach most of the time and not exactly in any position to being privy to any substantial information. So, taking that scene just for what it was, she blames her dad for driving them to the point of going on that plane ... and she probably blames herself, considering her share in getting their marriage towards such a fragile state just prior to the flight.

I think it's Jack and here's why:

1. I don't think that Jin is dead, I think that he is stuck on the island (at least I hope so).

2. She blames her dad because if it weren't for him they wouldn't have been on the plane in the first place.

3. Jack, she blames because he is the one keeping up the lie.. So, he is responsible for Jin's "death" because he is making them keep the lie alive and part of that lie is that only six of them survived the crash... thus he is to blame for Jin's "death".

This is what I think anyways :)

3. Jack, she blames because he is the one keeping up the lie.. So, he is responsible for Jin's "death" because he is making them keep the lie alive and part of that lie is that only six of them survived the crash... thus he is to blame for Jin's "death".


How can Jack "make them" keep up the lie?? He doesn't have any power over Sun. Any of the others could come clean whenever they want. There's clearly someone keeping them in line, but it isn't Jack.

Come to think of it it's odd that they did the press conference in Hawaii...if I was Sun and had just spent months on an island after my airplane crashed over the Pacific Ocean I wouldn't want to fly 2/3rds of the way across it just for a press conference then fly all the way back to Korea!! Would've been just as easy for everyone involved (except the media I guess) to ship them off to Guam, which is just east of the Philippines, not out of the way either for Sun or the US-bound survivors and also host to a large US military base.

I agree, I think she has a beef with Jack. She was not at the funeral, was she at Hurley's party? Also, Hurley was the only one who came to Jin's grave with Sun. Another clue I think is the "five", bank accounts. I'm assuming everyone pitched in, but she didn't ask Jack. There has to be something in the season's finale that would cause Sun to hate Jack and it most likely has to do with Jin either being left behind or being killed. Or maybe it's ambigous to her as to what happened to Jin and Jack is lying all over the place.

I think it's Jack judging by her looks at him. I think it will be a last minute thing where it's Jack's call as to who gets on the zodiac or freighter or helicopter (whatever they use to get off the island eventually) -- something along those lines. Like it has to do with the circumstances behind why only those six got off and no-one else.

I think it's Jack judging by her looks at him. I think it will be a last minute thing where it's Jack's call as to who gets on the zodiac or freighter or helicopter (whatever they use to get off the island eventually) -- something along those lines. Like it has to do with the circumstances behind why only those six got off and no-one else.

My thoughts exactly- or close to it. I thought it rather odd that none of them were sitting by Jack on the plane. I mean, c'mom, all 4 of them (not counting Aaron) are smooshed together on one side and Jack is all by his lonesome. You'd have thought Kate would've at least sat by him. I think Jack makes some sort of decision, or causes something to happen, that makes those select 6 people the only ones that make it off the island. Sun definitely gave him "the look"!

Meh, I'm over Jack getting blamed for everything. My first thought was Juliet. If it was Sun's father's fault that Jin got on the plane, then it was Juliet's fault that Jin was determined to get Sun off of the island at any cost, because Juliet spilled the beans.

Something major has yet to happen.

Right now the 6 survivers are all seperated
Sun and Aaron on the boat.
Jack is off with Sawyer
Hurley is with Locke
Kate is with Syiad.

Some how these people all have to reunite and get to the island they were resued from.
Any thing could take place between now and that happening.

To me sun sounded bitter not just sad. I think she will also seek revenge on the second person. So I'm leaning towards one of the 06. Not Hurley because we see he vists Sun and every thing seems fine between them.

Right now I'm guessing some sort of selfish act happend to cause Jin to either die or be left behind.

The looks Sun was giving Jack on the plane makes me think it was him, but that totally goes against who Jack is. If it were possible Jack would have given Jin his seat.

Put me down for Jack.

The arguments about her missing Christian's funeral are moot. Jack says 10 months had passed since he was supposed to bury his father and that would place Sun very close to her delivery date - could've been right before or right after.

Could this be related to, as Ben said in the FF... the 'last time Sayid reacted with his heart instead of his gun' ? I hope not...:undecide:

Could this be related to, as Ben said in the FF... the 'last time Sayid reacted with his heart instead of his gun' ? I hope not...:undecide:

I sure hope not!

I think we'll find out who the 2nd person is in the finale. Maybe Jin is alive on the island, but as soon as the O6 go to leave, the island "moves" and they can no longer see it or get back to it. I thinks he could then blame Locke for moving the island... yes?

I think the other person she blames is herself. In the scene on the freighter, when she was holding Aaron and looking black at the door, it seemed that she made a choice - save the babies, and leave Jin at risk. She blames her father, but most of all herself.

Based on what we've seen, the Jack and Sun theories make the most sense to me as to who the mystery second person is. Just to throw another name out there, maybe Sun blames Charlotte for reasons yet to be revealed. Jin told Charlotte to make sure that Sun is rescued; maybe Charlotte's decision to honor Jin's wishes leads to him being killed or left behind.

She is not overtly friendly to Jack either when they arrive home. I think she blames Jack.

I'm saying it's Jack but if not Jack then I think she is referring to herself.

Maybe she blames Jack just like he blames himself...for making that call to the freighter and for promising to get everyone that went with him off the Island. I don't think she will exact revenge on Jack like she did with her father but she seem distant towards him.

I think either Jin dies or she thinks Jin died.

I have a feeling we are gonna be left hanging after the finale as to who lives and who dies.:frown:

I think that's yet another question to add to the heap.

Whoever she blames, I think she should partially blame herself more than her dad for Jin's fate. Hold on. Don't bite my head off yet.

Why? Because she knew what Jin was doing for her father and she knew he was doing it so that he could provide all the comforts she grew up with. If she loved Jin so much, why didn't she tell him: "screw my father, I renounce him, I don't mind beeing poor, as long as I am with you"?

That would have allowed Jin to get out from under Mr.Paik's thumb. Jin wouldn't have gotten the order to deliver those watches and get on that plane.

Obviously, she's not entirely to blame because Jin made choices too and Mr. Paik is just an evil SOB. But still, she should take her share of the burden and feel at least a little guilty that Jin's lifestyle, which led to his being on the plane, was all done for her. And she could have at least tried to do something to put a stop to the life Jin had chosen because he loved her.

Why? Because she knew what Jin was doing for her father and she knew he was doing it so that he could provide all the comforts she grew up with. If she loved Jin so much, why didn't she tell him: "screw my father, I renounce him, I don't mind beeing poor, as long as I am with you"?Great post! :thumbsup:

One important thing to keep in mind is that we don't know for certain whether Jin is really dead. Sun may simply presume him dead because he got left on the island and she is unsure of his fate...except that she knows he does not have a way to get back nor can she find the island again now that it has moved.

Sun blames Paik for Jin being on the plane in the first place (Jin, remember, was running an errand for Paik that was to take him through Sydney to LA).

The other person she blames would be whoever made the decision for the O6 to leave the island without going back for additional people.

Whoever she blames, I think she should partially blame herself more than her dad for Jin's fate. Hold on. Don't bite my head off yet.

Why? Because she knew what Jin was doing for her father and she knew he was doing it so that he could provide all the comforts she grew up with. If she loved Jin so much, why didn't she tell him: "screw my father, I renounce him, I don't mind beeing poor, as long as I am with you"?

That would have allowed Jin to get out from under Mr.Paik's thumb. Jin wouldn't have gotten the order to deliver those watches and get on that plane.

Obviously, she's not entirely to blame because Jin made choices too and Mr. Paik is just an evil SOB. But still, she should take her share of the burden and feel at least a little guilty that Jin's lifestyle, which led to his being on the plane, was all done for her. And she could have at least tried to do something to put a stop to the life Jin had chosen because he loved her.

I'm not going to bite your head off :D I actually think that this makes the most sense. I can definitely see her blaming herself for the reasons that you stated.

I'd say it is the person in the coffin.

She blames Shannon.

Just kidding. I hope she blames Michael cause he's one of my favorites, and a total tragic character. I can see her blaming Jack for the assumptive reasons given. I can see her blaming Widmore if she her motivations for taking control of the company are what some people assume they are. I can see her blaming herself for all the reason given before.

Now, I hope that Jin is not dead, but she thinks he is... and here's how it could play out. As the very time the O6 are leaving the island (by whatever transport they end up taking), Ben and Locke are busy "moving the island." So as the 06 go, they see the island disappear -- as it is being teleported to another location, phased into another dimension, etc. So she assumes the island is destroyed and everyone on it is dead. Huh? I like that idea. I think the Finale is going to blow our minds.

That whole scene was actually a pretty significant reveal. It confirms that Mr. Paik was involved in the orchestration of the plane cash. It also may be the main reason for the O6's eventual return to the island. Sun bought out her father's "company" and is going to use it to find Jin. "With enough money and determination, you find anyone."

I vote for whoever is forcing them to lie to the world. Jack said they all agreed to tell the story that they eventually tell the world. They were coached what to say and I don't think it was Jack that made that decision. I'm thinking that by activating the secondary protocol, Widmore himself is going to come to the freighter, choose those that go and stay, and give those those that go the story they must follow, or else.

Sun will follow along because Jin is still alive on the island. When Widmore gains control of the island he will arrange for Jin to come back to the real world.

Kate will follow along because Sawyer is still on the island.

Sayid and Hurley are genuinely concerned about all of the losties on the island and wants them to be safe.

Jack now know his sister is on the island, something Widmore likely knows. Not to mention Juliette and everyone else left behind.

It is his, Hurley's, sun's and Sayid's guilt and anger that will eventually lead them all to work with Ben to get back to the island to save the people left behind for themselves.

I am thinking it is Jack. The way she said "We are in shock Jack" seemed very pointed. I do think Jin in mostly likely dead(although I hope not) I am guessing he is on the freighter and it blows up. I think he does send her back with Aaron and Faraday on the raft just in case because of the explosives. So it is also possible that she is talking about Jin himself, but I doubt that. I don't think it matter that she tells her father she blames 2 people, he can wonder about that all he wants(if he bothers to give anything she says any in depth thought- based on previous episodes- I doubt it), she won't tell him.

My thoughts exactly- or close to it. I thought it rather odd that none of them were sitting by Jack on the plane. I mean, c'mom, all 4 of them (not counting Aaron) are smooshed together on one side and Jack is all by his lonesome. You'd have thought Kate would've at least sat by him. I think Jack makes some sort of decision, or causes something to happen, that makes those select 6 people the only ones that make it off the island. Sun definitely gave him "the look"!

Hurley was sitting next to Jack.

I think she blames Jack. I have no idea why, but it will make for some good angst. if these two people who worked together to keep everyone healthy and safe and had built a trust between them (Jack knowing she poisoned Michael, but not telling and keeping her pregnancy a secret from Jin) now suddenly on the outs, her blaming him for her husband's death and him probably willing to accept the blame will make for some interesting drama if and when Jack starts trying to talk all of them into going back.

My reaction to the scene at the time was that Sun blamed Widmore for Jin's death as well, since I believe Widdy will be behind, not only the Freighter, but also forcing the 06 to lie. The only other realistic possibility I would even consider would be that she blames Ben and that she will now go after him, with Ben being the body in the coffin.

Hurley was sitting next to Jack.

I think she blames Jack. I have no idea why, but it will make for some good angst. if these two people who worked together to keep everyone healthy and safe and had built a trust between them (Jack knowing she poisoned Michael, but not telling and keeping her pregnancy a secret from Jin) now suddenly on the outs, her blaming him for her husband's death and him probably willing to accept the blame will make for some interesting drama if and when Jack starts trying to talk all of them into going back.

I think she also blames Jack, however she needs to take a good look at herself. There was a reason Jin was on that plane to begin with and the reason is Sun. I hardly think she will blame herself though. She seemed hell-bent on two things: having her baby and revenge!:eek2:

My problem with it all is that she blames anyone for his death. By doing so is she telling us he is in fact dead not just stranded on the island? If she knows or thinks he is dead that makes me think it will be Widmore because of the the whole situation.

Possibly her father and Michael, with Michael being the body in the coffin, thus explaining why Sun didn't go to the funeral...even though it would be a stretch to think she would've heard about it and traveled all that way with a young child quickly. But then again, she would have the resources...

I'm thinking its someone she sorta trusted too since she appeared to be the most shocked and angry in the last episode. So I'm guessing, Michael, Jack or Locke.

My problem with it all is that she blames anyone for his death. By doing so is she telling us he is in fact dead not just stranded on the island? If she knows or thinks he is dead that makes me think it will be Widmore because of the the whole situation.

I am also unsure of who this anonymous second person is, but I don't think Sun's comments are hinting to us that Jin is really dead. After all, they are supposed to be the only survivors, and if she said anything to lead her father to believe that Jin may be alive, it would completely ruin their cover story. However, that being said, I got a very distinct "last look" feeling when Sun was looking back at the closing door on the freighter--like that was the last time she'd see Jin alive.

I doubt Sun blames herself. You don't take revenge on some one for something your guilty of doing.

I'm thinking Sun feels somewhat responsible for Jin's death, but I don't think he's actually dead. I think he's dead only in the sense that all of the other surviving Oceanic passengers still on the island are "dead". I may be wrong about Sun feeling partly responsible for Jin's death, because I agree it may be Jack that Sun blames as well. We don't know yet why Jin isn't with Sun when they get off the island. In true Lost fashion, whomever else she feels is responsible may not be known for quite some time.

I fully believe that Sun thinks Jin is dead and she is blaming her father and either Widmore or Ben for that. However, I do think Jin will be in reality alive on the Island next season.

I just got some intel that says the other guy Sun is blaming for Jin's death is none other than this guy. (http://www.werbeblogger.de/media/vwgti.jpg)

I just got some intel that says the other guy Sun is blaming for Jin's death is none other than this guy. (http://www.werbeblogger.de/media/vwgti.jpg)

Well, he DOES look guilty, doesn't he? ;)

My reaction to the scene at the time was that Sun blamed Widmore for Jin's death as well, since I believe Widdy will be behind, not only the Freighter, but also forcing the 06 to lie. The only other realistic possibility I would even consider would be that she blames Ben and that she will now go after him, with Ben being the body in the coffin.

I looked throught this entire thread looking for this. My thoughts as well.

I looked throught this entire thread looking for this. My thoughts as well.

Well, thank you for looking through the entire thread. I for one appreciate it when people take the time to read all of the comments before posting! It's the polite thing to do. :)

I think that Jin is alive and that Sun may be saying to her father that it is about Jin's death, but in her head she is thinking that Paik is responsible for still being on the island. the other person is her. Jin could have left the island if he did not give up his chance so that her and the baby could get off. Paik because he was the reason they were on the flight in the first place.

It's not Jack. Look at the venom she had for her own father. If she blamed Jack, we would have seen it when they interacted during their rescue. There was shock there, but not bitterness and venom.

It's not Jack.

I also believe that Jin is still alive on the island, but events occured in such a way that Sun was led to believe Jin died.

I still tink Ben is the second person. The question is does her fater now use his connections to get at ben abd try and reclaim her love?

i agree, i think it would have to be ben, but we will see i guess....

I think that Sun seemed really angry with Jack on the plane, but I think she held her anger for the press conference. Leaves me thinking that Jin is alive on island and she blames Jack that Jin is not there to see their daughter. Maybe Jack had to pick who would go and he did not pick Jin, I dunno!

Ben was my first guess because if it weren't for him, no freighter, no ka-boom. But if Jin dies, I think so does Desmond, Michael (he said he was there to die), and who else was there?

Jack. Notice how Sun was the only one of the O6 not at his father's funeral.
It would be cool if it was Jack, but she didn't seem angry with him when she talked to him on the coast guard plane. I assumed she flew to Korea with her parents from Hawaii. You wouldn't really expect her to fly to the states for a funeral for someone she never met.

Maybe she blames Jin's hooker mom whose blackmail set into motion a chain of events that led to their own tragedy.

I'm leaning towards Michael.......I think that because it was Michael, who Jin saw a a "rival" on the island Jin stayed to help diffuse the bomb with Michael. Sun thinks Jin died in the explosion and blames Michael for not making him leave. after all what did Jin know about bomb disposal?