Didn't like the ep? Tell us why. :biggrin:






This thread is for those that did NOT like the episode. If you liked the ep please visit the "Loved it!!!" thread. If you want to debate the episode (likes and dislikes), then please take your comments to the "Rate The Episode" thread or The "Discuss The Episode" thread. Any off topic posts will be deleted and possibly warned or given infraction points.

1. Michael. Months of hype for his return and he goes out like that? Are you serious? The guy was in like five episodes total this season and he gets killed by a bomb. What a let down. I was actually hoping to see him interact with the Losties again besides Sayid, Des, Jin and Sun. Terrible.

2. Wheel. I really thought Ben was going to con Locke one last time. There's no way the show would actually "move" an island. But they did. Did it jump to the south Atlantic? Did it go back to 1955? Who knows, it's a ridiculous idea that shouldn't have been done. With a hand crank wheel of all things. At least Desmond jumped because of some machinery, but an old wheel? Come on.

3. Locke. I knew it was coming but I told myself it was going to be Desmond. Sadly, that's not the case. Why the heck would Locke leave the only place he's called home? Secondly, if he leaves he's going to be crippled again. Or at least that's what we've been lead to believe the entire series. And if he's not going to be crippled then that makes the first two seasons of build of why he wouldn't leave to be completely meaningless.

Up until Michael's death this episode was going great. I hope they can fix this but something tells me this show isn't ever going to explain the big questions.

I feel like this episode fizzled at the end. Most of it was terrific, great action, great suspense, Des & Penny... but first the donkey wheel, and then dead Locke? *SO* disappointed by the ending... so season 5 will be, what, "Weekend at Bernie's"? We get to watch those two crazy pals, Ben and Jack, try to get dead Locke back to the island...watch the hilarity that ensues as they try to make their way back to the island!!

eta: agreeing with the post right above me, I was disappointed in Michael's ending as well. There really was little if any point in bringing him back this year, wasn't there? This one I'll give the writers the benefit of the doubt, though... I get the sense his story would have been more developed had the strike not occurred, and I think Michael (along with the freighter scientist crew) got the short end of the season being cut short. To his credit, I thought HP did a great job with what he was given, and I really felt for Michael tonight, but his arc over this season? Meh. Felt mostly like filler to me, and hardly redemptive. Did he redeem himself by saving anyone? Lapidus and Jack and Sawyer did more to save the O6 than Michael did...

Well I didn't hate it. I would say I merely didn't love it. It was OK. There were a few intriguing parts here and there but I felt like not enough was done in those two hours. Also, like, only half of a question was answered, and naturally about 10 more opened up.

Killing off Michael was lame, but then again they've kept us away from him for so long, at the end I was sort of like "whatever".

Also holy crap do they kill off a lot of characters on this show.

First, just to put this rant in perspective: i actually found lots of stuff to like in Eggtown and Stranger in a Strange Land.

So here's what I thought of the S4 finale:

What a waste of great actors and great characters..

The moronic Ben wheel scene alone would have made this the lamest Lost episode ever. Unfortunately there were a dozen other scenes that piled on.
- Sayid bailing Hurley out of SR was a good idea, but the stupid wig and dialog... um, no. ~shhh, don't say his name~ give me a break..
- My expectaions were too high for the kiss. It fizzled.
- Where was Bernard? Rose? Didn't they deserve a moment on the freighter? Where WERE the folks on the freighter? Hiding in the blood-stained, cockroach-infested rooms?
- Christian, Christian, I love you and am so sad they put you in that sappy scene.
- Hurley and Walt, what was the point of that scene?
- Richard, I still don't like you and your hippie cult.
- What's with Locke shaking hands with Ben, after Ben slaughtered everyone on the freighter?
- Penny and Des do good phone loving. In person, not so much.
- Too many coy references to "him", "Bentham", he who's name cannot be uttered else we all die.
- The whole "defuse the bomb" thing fell flat. Over and over and over again.

Lame, lame, lame. I'm not even remotely curious about what comes next, how they get back to the island. Hello? they become time-travelling bunnies.
Dang, I should have watched So You Think You Can Dance.

I did not hate this episode but I did HATE the scene with Ben turning the wheel. WTF that was lame. Unbelievably stupid. They should have just had that room that he put all the metal in be the way the island moves. Sure, we'd be like "how?" but at least we could speculate on the pseudo-science of it all. Now we get to go "He turned an effing wheel. A wheel!!!"

GAH.

Also, I totally agree that Michael's character was completely wasted this season, and I definitely think it was the fault of the writer's strike. I can't believe he never interacted again with half of those characters. Seriously a shame. I would have rather he redeem himself some other way and then get to go back and be with Walt. Poor Walt. :frown:

i was kinda bored during the episode.

Probably the worst episode of Lost yet. Can they really finish this show off before ratings tank to nothing. I doubt it.

Cheesy, lame, goofy, silly, huh... lots of action but... huh... I'll get back to ya'll later. Someone in the house had to go to bed early because she has a final exam tomorrow and then she'll set us straight on what it is we watched.

I'll say this much for the episode; we certainly expected something else besides what we saw. I think it was the hype and the expectations and the build up and then it was over.

Back tomorrow with more. I am thinking more and more that somehow we have all been had. I'm beginning to feel that the Lost story per se is not that good of a story but that the storytelling is terrific.

Big difference between the two. Like lots of action vs. story depth and like change vs. improvement. See where this is going?

P. S. In the sig below, Juan del Candado is Spanish for John Lock.
Meow WACKA! (High Five) for KittyThor on predicting that weeks ago. He gets an extra tuna treat for that one.

Cheesy, lame, goofy, silly, huh... lots of action but... huh... . Yeah, kind iike riding Big Thunder Mountain.
Big difference is I don't wanna ride this show again. Ever.

I remember I was dreading so much the eight months of hiatus last year.

I welcome them with open arms this time around. (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5332/seasonfivepreviewip9.jpg)

(I didn't make it, someone at Dark's did...)

Yeah, kind iike riding Big Thunder Mountain.
Big difference is I don't wanna ride this show again. Ever.

I hear ya'.

We taped this episode but I doubt we're gonna watch it anytime soon. In fact, the first part of the season, we taped over that a long time ago.

And we sold our 1st and 2nd season Lost DVD's to our local Hastings Music. (Got a something like $7.50 for each one!)

There is something brewing here and I am not sure what it is. Have you ever had the feeling that someone pulled the wool over your eyes and you are just now realizing it? Like after you leave the state fair and you realized that some of the games were rigged, but you just had to try the milk-bottle-toss thing again and again because you knew it you were due.

I think we're feeling the same way over here.

P. S. Written by who? Carlton Cuse Goddard? Did these guys get married or what? Did they enter the vault pod thingy and became merged like in The Fly? Is that a misprint? Is he getting two checks now?

When the helicopter crashed in the water the DHARMA shark had to be below it. The show literally jumped the shark.

This show thrives on plot and character development, and I felt this finale had little of either. Action is a necessary component, but shouldn't drive the show. The season 3 finale was soooo good, so I am kind of disappointed in that too. Maybe I am on message boards too much and could just enjoy the show more if I watched it without the hype. This episode did not live up to the hype.

The show just became way to cheesy and silly. I mean how do you move an island by turning a stupid wheel. Tonights episode made no sense. This once great show has gone down hill fast. Tonight's finale was dumb and lame.

Yeah, I didn't love it. If Michael is dead that was the lamest death scene in Lost's history. It felt like he was only around for 5 minutes this season and his one episode in season four was one of the weakest ones of them all - not because of the actor portraying the character, but for the writing and directing which was weaker than usual.

As for Jin? If he is dead I call a cheat. It was unfair to not show him literally blowing up. For all we know he could have jumped into the water and swam away. It ruined the scene for me. I mean, seriously, if Claire can survive that house blowing up in 'The Shapes of Things to Come' what's stopping Jin from having jumped off to swim back to the island? Will it have dissapeared by then with his body floating aimlessly in space? Who knows.

Then the "Froken Donkey Wheel". Thanks Damon and Carlton. That was ridiculous. I'm sure it sounded good on paper - that's why you gave it such a silly name. We knew the island was going to be moved through time and space anyway so where was the suprise? I have always enjoyed these twists but there wasn't anything to cheer for tonight.

Finally, I come to Locke's dead body in the funeral. I saw it coming the entire episode. Plus - thanks for the huge giveaway that it was him once Ben was in the Funeral Room as well. Locke was my favorite character and you have killed him. The character, above all others, I was rooting for. My second favorite character on this show was always Charlie. You do seem to enjoy making me feel miserable, don't you? I feel horrible - like a best friend has been killed and ripped away from my life. Someone I got to know over these past four years and was constantly rooting for.

After tonight's episode it is clear that Lost is going to continue to become a major blood-bath. Remember to keep some characters alive so you can reach your conclusion. It looks like next season you may need to introduce us to some new characters all over again if you want us to stay interested.

Then the kiss. It fell flat for me. Desmond and Penny had little on-screen chemistry in that scene. It was a faint echo of 'The Constant'. I'm sorry, but it's true. Also - is this ALL we get as an explanation to the end of season two? That cliffhanger was good back then and had so much possibility. It seems as though you simply threw that story-thread away. It became simply "taking care of business".

Last but not least, I feel the need to point out how disappointing the editing was in this episode. It felt rushed. Obviously, it was, and because of the writers strike. This was a fairly large detractor from the entire episode.

Thanks for crafting what is now my least favorite, most disappointing finale to my favorite series. I think the next few months will be torture simply because of how let down I feel.

When the helicopter crashed in the water the DHARMA shark had to be below it. The show literally jumped the shark.


I'm not going to rant right now, but this right here is a true statement. This really isn't a good television show, by any real measurement. It's a soap opera, where crazy things happen for the sake of having the characters and the audience go "oh snap, something crazy just happened!" regardless of whether or not any of it makes sense or is relevant.

What is this show about? Anybody? What are these characters moving towards? What do they care about? What makes them do the things they do? The only explanation I've ever heard, out of anyone, is some variation of: "The Island wants me to." or "I have to do this." The show has only been about getting off the island, now we have a whole see saw season in which everyone makes a big fuss about getting off ONLY TO GET RIGHT BACK ON. We didn't see these characters go through three years of turmoil and angst before they decided to go back to the island. The past four years we've seen them on the island, and the next two years we'll see them on the island. Nothing has actually changed. This is despite the fact that we knew Jack wanted to return A YEAR AGO. How could they seriously waste screen time on scenes rehashing the same points? I felt like this whole episode people were having the same conversations they've always been having on this show.

And i honestly want to know why the "island" is so arrogant as to torture these people, these select people, and it has done nothing for them. What has the island done for Jack? For Kate? For Sayid(him being on that island eventually leads to his only love DYING!!!)How has hurley's life been positively impacted by being on that island? Where does Locke get the nuts to tell Jack he "has to stay" and that it was "his fault bad things happened", when the only thing that's happened to Jack on that island is chaos.

He's had to sprint for his life, fight for his life, shoot at people who were simultaneously enemies and "good guys", be captured, be ordered around, be under extremely stressful situations ALL THIS TIME. And they've been on the island for friggin what, four months? And he has to be on this island so it can teach him what? Virtue? To stop "trying to save everybody?" Is all the crap these people have been through worth whatever is at the end of this "rainbow"? It's asinine. The writers of this show are arrogant because they think they can get away with crap wrapped up in a bow, ***mod edit

I guess I did rant.

I´m disappointed.
This was the weakest finale of all. For several reasons already pointed out on this thread. I´m totally for quality > quantity. Lots of action, but I felt bored most of the time.
Am I going to be back next year? Sure. But its different now. I´m not going to come back as I did for season 4, because I absolutely adored season 3 finale and was thrilled to see what was going to happen. I will be back because I invested 4 years on this show and I want to know how it ends. This season finale was a letdown.

It's not that I hated it, but I just feel like our core characters are taking a backseat to Ben and people that are brand new that are starting to serve a "bigger purpose" in the whole scheme of things. It was very apparent in this finale and it's one of the reasons why I miss the layout of season one.

I'm not going to rant right now, but this right here is a true statement. This really isn't a good television show, by any real measurement. It's a soap opera, where crazy things happen for the sake of having the characters and the audience go "oh snap, something crazy just happened!" regardless of whether or not any of it makes sense or is relevant.

What is this show about? Anybody? What are these characters moving towards? What do they care about? What makes them do the things they do? The only explanation I've ever heard, out of anyone, is some variation of: "The Island wants me to." or "I have to do this." The show has only been about getting off the island, now we have a whole see saw season in which everyone makes a big fuss about getting off ONLY TO GET RIGHT BACK ON. We didn't see these characters go through three years of turmoil and angst before they decided to go back to the island. The past four years we've seen them on the island, and the next two years we'll see them on the island. Nothing has actually changed. This is despite the fact that we knew Jack wanted to return A YEAR AGO. How could they seriously waste screen time on scenes rehashing the same points? I felt like this whole episode people were having the same conversations they've always been having on this show.

And i honestly want to know why the "island" is so arrogant as to torture these people, these select people, and it has done nothing for them. What has the island done for Jack? For Kate? For Sayid(him being on that island eventually leads to his only love DYING!!!)How has hurley's life been positively impacted by being on that island? Where does Locke get the nuts to tell Jack he "has to stay" and that it was "his fault bad things happened", when the only thing that's happened to Jack on that island is chaos.

He's had to sprint for his life, fight for his life, shoot at people who were simultaneously enemies and "good guys", be captured, be ordered around, be under extremely stressful situations ALL THIS TIME. And they've been on the island for friggin what, four months? And he has to be on this island so it can teach him what? Virtue? To stop "trying to save everybody?" Is all the crap these people have been through worth whatever is at the end of this "rainbow"? It's asinine. The writers of this show are arrogant because they think they can get away with crap wrapped up in a bow ***mod edit

I guess I did rant.

I'm glad for your rant. You expressed so much of what I feel right now.

I'm not going to rant right now, but this right here is a true statement. This really isn't a good television show, by any real measurement. It's a soap opera, where crazy things happen for the sake of having the characters and the audience go "oh snap, something crazy just happened!" regardless of whether or not any of it makes sense or is relevant.

What is this show about? Anybody? What are these characters moving towards? What do they care about? What makes them do the things they do? The only explanation I've ever heard, out of anyone, is some variation of: "The Island wants me to." or "I have to do this." The show has only been about getting off the island, now we have a whole see saw season in which everyone makes a big fuss about getting off ONLY TO GET RIGHT BACK ON. We didn't see these characters go through three years of turmoil and angst before they decided to go back to the island. The past four years we've seen them on the island, and the next two years we'll see them on the island. Nothing has actually changed. This is despite the fact that we knew Jack wanted to return A YEAR AGO. How could they seriously waste screen time on scenes rehashing the same points? I felt like this whole episode people were having the same conversations they've always been having on this show.

And i honestly want to know why the "island" is so arrogant as to torture these people, these select people, and it has done nothing for them. What has the island done for Jack? For Kate? For Sayid(him being on that island eventually leads to his only love DYING!!!)How has hurley's life been positively impacted by being on that island? Where does Locke get the nuts to tell Jack he "has to stay" and that it was "his fault bad things happened", when the only thing that's happened to Jack on that island is chaos.

He's had to sprint for his life, fight for his life, shoot at people who were simultaneously enemies and "good guys", be captured, be ordered around, be under extremely stressful situations ALL THIS TIME. And they've been on the island for friggin what, four months? And he has to be on this island so it can teach him what? Virtue? To stop "trying to save everybody?" Is all the crap these people have been through worth whatever is at the end of this "rainbow"? It's asinine. The writers of this show are arrogant because they think they can get away with crap wrapped up in a bow ***mod edit

I guess I did rant.

thank you! :biggrin:

I'm not going to rant right now, but this right here is a true statement. This really isn't a good television show, by any real measurement. It's a soap opera, where crazy things happen for the sake of having the characters and the audience go "oh snap, something crazy just happened!" regardless of whether or not any of it makes sense or is relevant.

What is this show about? Anybody? What are these characters moving towards? What do they care about? What makes them do the things they do? The only explanation I've ever heard, out of anyone, is some variation of: "The Island wants me to." or "I have to do this." The show has only been about getting off the island, now we have a whole see saw season in which everyone makes a big fuss about getting off ONLY TO GET RIGHT BACK ON. We didn't see these characters go through three years of turmoil and angst before they decided to go back to the island. The past four years we've seen them on the island, and the next two years we'll see them on the island. Nothing has actually changed. This is despite the fact that we knew Jack wanted to return A YEAR AGO. How could they seriously waste screen time on scenes rehashing the same points? I felt like this whole episode people were having the same conversations they've always been having on this show.

And i honestly want to know why the "island" is so arrogant as to torture these people, these select people, and it has done nothing for them. What has the island done for Jack? For Kate? For Sayid(him being on that island eventually leads to his only love DYING!!!)How has hurley's life been positively impacted by being on that island? Where does Locke get the nuts to tell Jack he "has to stay" and that it was "his fault bad things happened", when the only thing that's happened to Jack on that island is chaos.

He's had to sprint for his life, fight for his life, shoot at people who were simultaneously enemies and "good guys", be captured, be ordered around, be under extremely stressful situations ALL THIS TIME. And they've been on the island for friggin what, four months? And he has to be on this island so it can teach him what? Virtue? To stop "trying to save everybody?" Is all the crap these people have been through worth whatever is at the end of this "rainbow"? It's asinine. The writers of this show are arrogant because they think they can get away with crap wrapped up in a bow ***mod edit

I guess I did rant.

Please rant some more if you are going to rant like this. I totally agree. Especially about the last paragraph you said about Jack.

Why was the bomb so cheesy? If they could freeze the battery, they could just disconnect it. It clearly couldn't have a motion sensor -- on a boat! Bad science.

Even the heart monitor trigger was dumb -- Locke could have put it on between beats. But, then there wouldn't have been a giant explosion to watch. Sigh.

There aren't any compelling questions that make me want to watch the last seasons. I hope S5 starts with some quality, or it won't hold me. And, I didn't miss an ep yet.

I'm not going to rant right now, but this right here is a true statement. This really isn't a good television show, by any real measurement. It's a soap opera, where crazy things happen for the sake of having the characters and the audience go "oh snap, something crazy just happened!" regardless of whether or not any of it makes sense or is relevant.

I guess I did rant.

Rant some more. I think you are saying what a lot of us have been feeling for a long time.

Oh, and I can make a bunny teleport in 1/1000 of a second, too. But it happens so fast that the bunny only appears to not disappear. In fact, it disappeared while you were blinking.
That'll be five bucks.

There, it disappeared again. While you blinked.
That'll be another five bucks please.

The lesson in all this? Don't blink.

I am a little torn on this episode, after first seeing it, I was in shock and awe, but now that it's settling, I'm just feeling a little empty.

1) Michaels death was just not what I wanted from that character. I usually am not one to really question decisions, but I feel I have a right to state that they didn't utilize his return as they should have. Michaels return was supposed to be this huge deal, everyone was speculating on what would happen when Jack, and Sawyer, and HURLEY saw him...and we get none of that, and instead, see him NOT return to the island, and basically turn into some kind of freaking engineering genius!

2) The Frozen Donkey Wheel...honestly, I shouldn't speak on this yet. I need to watch the episode again, I admit that Michael Emerson is an amazing actor, and he did the best he could in one of the most ridiculous situations one has ever been put on in this show. But dear lord in heaven....after four seasons, THIS is the big season 4 payoff? Man oh man, thats just a bit crazy to me.They need to not let this linger long, please producers, I understand that the origin of the island is one of the biggest mysteries, but don't force us to question what that crap was for too long, just be real with us sometime early in season 5, I don't want to have to think about that. Maybe it will sit better after a second viewing, but as of right now....it's just so weird.

3) Locke in the coffin....in our hearts of hearts, who WASN'T expecting this to be Locke? I mean c'mon now, the exposition of television ALWAYS gives more hints then the creators think it does.

4) Claire was in this episode for all of 20 seconds...I will ALWAYS feel threatened when the original losties aren't getting fair treatment, and this is one of those situations!

5) Redshirts have no idea what self-preservation is??? Why the hell was everyone running around like a raving lunatic as people were getting in the chopper? I've always felt that the hierarchy displayed on the show was a little fake, I've never "bought" that grown men and women would just let these supermodels control them the way Jack and Kate tend to do, but my goodness, at least TRY to show a semblance of actual human behavior!

Like I said, I'm more torn then anything, I just need to review it and assess it again later. But right now, these are the things eating at me.

Wow. And here I stayed away because I thought I was going to be the only one posting here. Seriously, it was one of those eps where I said after, "was that good, because I just can't tell anymore". I knew I said meh when it ended but I thought maybe it was just me and everyone would be raving. Guess not. Okay then...

1) Michael -- so that's it huh? The big return of HP to the main cast and he never even sets foot on the island. Most people don't know he was ever there. The freighter blew up anyway with him on it. He was in three episodes. I really don't see the point of his return or his redemption. Oh yeah, the island demanded it. (screw the island, and I'm waiting for just one character to say that too but they're still all chess pieces.) And as much as I liked Jin, if he shows up and gets picked out of the water by Daniel in the raft next season I will feel completely screwed with, particularly after that very real grief of Sun's. But that's probably what will happen because Jin and Sun (a pairing hardly anyone cares about) haven't had enough reunions on this show. And I agree about Rose and Bernard getting cheated. Where are they?

2) Locke -- that had to be the most disappointing final few seconds in television. Besides the fact that Locke was number one on the guess list, once Michael and Ben were dead or accounted for there wasn't anyone else it could have been. I thought there was some big secret final scene that was going to make us all go huh? I went huh all right. Huh? That's IT? So obviously something went wrong on the island, Locke left to go get the O6 and make them come back but somehow was killed. The O6 will now bring him back and Locke will become the new Christian speaking for Jacob. I'm not even the least bit curious after that finale because the rest seems so obvious. I'm not left wondering anything apart from the age old question of why I'm even still watching this predictable soap opera crap. I cannot BELIEVE who's in the coffin was the big last scene! What a waste. And all this 'you're not supposed to' and 'you're here for a reason' crap is already old. The island is a big sadistic fate driven torture machine, so why should I care about it? The characters have no free will that the island can't undo, so why should I care about them?

3) DesPenny -- speaking of what a waste. Des: How did you find us? Penny: I have a tracking station! Well DUH! We saw that like two years ago. I keep waiting for the twist that never seems to come. Oh and Penny, I'd like you to meet Kate and Aaron. Des can't bother to shed a tear for the missing Claire and for Charlie who died for her based upon Desmond's word that they would be rescued TOGETHER. None of that matters now that he has his Penny. And when Penny met the rest of them I was waiting for her to ask, where's your mate Charlie? But no. Forget that noise. Kind of took away from the heartwarming reunion knowing what it cost.

4) Claire -- Now she's been neglected since season two, so I never expect much from her but a three second dream sequence? I wish they'd just stop playing games and confirm she's dead or dead but here or undead or whatever. That's the big Claire mystery. Whoo hoo. And of course once they confirm she's dead there's no Claire/Aaron reunion to look forward to so seriously I cannot see this show coming to any satifying conclusion, not plotwise since it's so full of contrivances and not character wise since most of the only ones with redeeming qualities that I ever rooted for are dead.

5) Hurley -- Playing chess with EKO???? I'm going to try to fanwank this one for my own sanity and say Eko was a hallucination because he was clearly invisible to Sayid. Any other explanation just makes me want to tear my head off. If Hurley can see everyone from Boone to Arzt to Sceve than Charlie's appearance wasn't that important after all. I'm hoping that's not the case and that if Charlie had been there Sayid would have seen him. Just another mention would have been nice instead of just "I see dead people". Chrisitian and Claire get appearances but not Charlie? Letdown.

6) Ben -- Enough has been said about the literal frozen donkey wheel. Everyone was speculating cool things like the entire O6 would time travel off the island and then the island would explode or something. This? The O6 get rescued in a conventional way and Ben is the only one who time travels? Letdown. Don't even get me started on moving an island by throwing metal in the chamber like tin foil in a microwave.

7) Daniel -- while I admit I liked the idea of Charlotte staying behind, I thought Daniel would stay with her. Then when he goes in the raft, I wanted to see where he ended up, some emotional resolution for him. I feel majorly cheated out of seeing what became of him. It would have been just as dramatic for Dan to get picked up by Penny's freighter and to be determined to get back someday to find Charlotte. But he's left floating in the ocean with a bunch of redshirts with the island now gone. So what happens to him?? You know there are viewers that have grown to like this guy but he had the weakest and most neglected story here next to Claire. Does it matter that Desmond is his constant? He's adrift in the ocean will it affect him in some way? I really didn't want that unresolved because I have a feeling he'll just show up somewhere and this will all be dropped next year. Although I liked the new characters they introduced this year, as is typical they neglected to really develop them, so we're left with characters we know well dying and characters they've spent no time on left to pick up the slack next season. I'm underwhelmed. A little more character development is in order for me to care.

Although I liked the new characters they introduced this year, as is typical they neglected to really develop them, so we're left with characters we know well dying and characters they've spent no time on left to pick up the slack next season. I'm underwhelmed. .

TPTB traded Charlie, Rose, Bernard, Michael, and presumably :rolleyes: Locke, Jin, and Claire for Richard and the Freighties.

Let's join Juliet and Sawyer on the beach... we'll sit there, gaze out at where our beloveds were last seen, and pass the bottle.
Hey, I think Claudia's here too...

For the record, I don't think Locke and Jin are dead. I think Jin's body floated into the bubble before the island moved and will next be seen rescued from the water by Dan's raft, alive. I think Doc Ray was a clue to that happening. Dan and Jin will then return to the island together (Dan's raft moved with it too).

As for Locke, he has only just died three years in the future, which means he's still alive on the island and will remain so until the future catches up and becomes the present. Even still, they will just return his body to the island and he lives again.

Both deaths were cheats and fakeouts, so they have no emotional impact, and Michael's death has been wished for by every fan that hated him.

I wan't crazy about the episode either but I wasn't as let down as others because I'm a natural skeptic. I've learned to take hype with a grain of salt. And this finale was hyped off the charts. Although I was disappointed it wasn't so much as to make give up now after all the time & mental energy I've invested in this show.

I just hope that by waiting another stupid 8 or so months for S5 I don't change my mind.

I have kept wondering if maybe the show would have been more exciting if they HADN'T shown who was in the casket.

"I don't want to post here...I really don't....."

I have to. Pacejunkie summed it up perfectly. I was planning to re-watch tonite on TIVO but why??? Did I miss something important last night???

Everyone enjoy your summer and get the taste out of your mouths. Come September I'll get myself back into thinking about season 5. What do we look forward to?? Maybe someone smarter than me can give bulletpoints of what to expect in Season 5.....

***mod edit

Lisa, I know the question wasn't directed at me, and please don't take this message as a personal attack as it's absolutely not my intention, but I'm with lulinha and lostmio on this one. The only difference is that I don't want to know how the show ends, I want to know how it begins. What is the monster, what is the island, how it came to be and what was the DI really doing there. I promise you that, if I could have those and only those, and not one single additional answer about the show, I would never watch another episode.

That, btw, is the most frustrating thing to me. As you said yourself, there is a contract with ABC and those last 34 episodes will be made, rain or shine. Ratings are irrelevant at this point. So why keep dragging things out like it's the 2nd season all over again? Just answer the effing mysteries and let only the "mature", the "I watch Lost for the ride and don't care about answers" audience have the time of their lives in seasons 5 and 6.

If there were another 9 seasons to go, I could understand a ridiculous stalling tactic such as having Ben turn a wheel that makes the island disappear. But with 34 episodes to go? And what is s5 going to be about? A "Weekend at Bernie's" remake, as some people are anticipating?

I too apologize for the ranting, but what ABC and TPTB are doing / have done with this show is unbelievable. I had never written anything in neither a Loved It or Didn't Love It thread, and this is the first time I feel emotional enough about an episode (and the show in general) to do so.

Maybe someone smarter than me can give bulletpoints of what to expect in Season 5.....

I'm certainly not smarter than you connrick but seeing as Locke in the coffin was as obvious as Michael on the freighter, I think we can all state what to expect in season five.

Jin will be found alive floating in the ocean reverse-Doc Ray style and rescued by Dan as they all moved in both time and space. They both return to the island as they will have moved together.

Locke is now leader of the Others, causes some catastrophe because he's stupid and to fix it he has to leave the island and convince the O6 to come back under the assumed identity of Jeremy Bentham just as Ben travelled as Moriarty. Something goes wrong and Locke dies three years in the future but fear not because next season he is still alive and well on the island and by the time we find out how he dies (which will be next year's season finale) he will already be on his way back in his coffin to be resurrected Christian style.

So next year we see Locke, Richard, assorted Others, Sawyer, Juliet, Charlotte, Miles, Dan, Jin, Rose and Bernard go through some island catastrophe caused by Locke (again) while the O6 fall apart in the real world and the island torments them to return. Next year's season finale, they all return with Locke's body.

Is anyone else surprised by this?

I am *very* seriously disappointed in this episode. I don't think I've posted to a "didn't love it thread" before and found some of the purist overreaction found in these threads in the past to be amusing, but I found the quality of writing to be well below the standard of excellence that had been evident in most of the previous episodes. I'm beginning to wonder if some of the comedians past comments about the writers "making it up as you go along" are true, because they really seemed to have boxed themselves into situations that they couldn't find a reasonable way out of.

Now I'm not going to complain about some things that have already been brought up - Donkey Wheel? - well that's a mystery that needs to be explained, but I can suspend disbelief until then. Locke in the coffin? Same thing. Good writing can take care of things like that.

The problem is with the plot holes that have developed this season - a result of poor writing - that cannot be resolved. Here is my list

1) First and biggest is the bomb on the freighter - what is the first thing that is done when there is a bomb threat anyplace? EVACUATE!, EVACUATE!, EVACUATE! Des have training to know that - heck anyone interested in their own self preservation should know that. I doesn't matter that the Zodiac boat was out - a ship that size would have multiple survival rafts like the one in the helicopter. They weren't in the open sea - they were just offshore of an island. Everyone should have been off that boat! I can't see Michael as redeeming himself when his and Des negligence led to dozens of deaths. Heck, Michael wasn't "allowed" to blow up the ship earlier because of the innocent lives that would be lost, but this way even more innocents (losties) died. What's more, all those deaths served no purpose except to pump up the body count. If I want body count I'll watch slasher movies. The only dramatic deaths necessary were Jin's and Michael and that could have been accomplished the same way except to have everyone else watching from rafts or the helicopter.

2) WTF was with the dead man's switch anyway? Kierney expecting that after his thugs had murdered a number of unarmed people in cold blood that their friends would be model humanitarians and not want to kill him because it would harm the people on the ship that brought them? That doesn't sound like a successful strategy in the history of naval invasions, does it? Why is Locke so concerned? He didn't have a problem sticking a knife into the back of one of them earlier before they had done any harm.

3) Helicopter crash - Frank could have said "We're almost out of fuel - I'm going to put this right above the water, toss out a raft and we'll all jump. Instead they had to go through a spectacular crash in which the copter flips end over end. Not only does everyone survive, but the baby doesn't even cry.

4) Don't even need to say anything about the "camel" baby that doesn't need to eat or drink for days on end

5) Jack's surgery - we are supposed to be concerned about his incision bleeding, but then that's quickly forgotten as soon as we need him to be an action figure. Some will say that the writer's strike left less time to work with, so the above problems couldn't be adequately worked out. If so, cut out that whole appendectomy story! Didn't really push the plot along and it was ignored as soon as it became inconvenient. In other words, it was a story line to fill up some time. Get rid of it and some loose ends could have been tied up better.

I could go on, but this is too long a post already. I'm just very disappointed in the writing as it looks like they were just hoping the actions scenes would cover up the obvious holes.

I'm beginning to wonder if some of the comedians past comments about the writers "making it up as you go along" are true, because they really seemed to have boxed themselves into situations that they couldn't find a reasonable way out of.


Excellent post, cintibud. Here's another perspective on it... not mine, but one that some of my favorite lost bloggers have suggested:
The writers know the big story arc and the ending TOO well. They're so focused on it, on getting there, that they rushed through the finale, sloppily tying up loose ends and trying to push viewers to the next chapter, without giving us time to assimilate it all. They forgot where they began, and where we the viewers are.
In the process they sacrificed logic and character, and dropped plot lines like hot potatoes.

I mentioned this because I realized that's how I felt last night... kinda bewildered and pushed someplace I wasn't ready yet to go.
Just something to think about.

Well, what an atrocious way to end a season. It's really, really sad to see the episode revolve around these silly and covoluted ways to create scenes that are supposedly thrilling. Honestly, when Sawyer jumped the helicopter, that was it for me, I began writing this piece while watching the show.

But anyway, since we're here, let the ranting begin. Stuff that I absolutely hated, in no particular order:

- First, the whole bomb in the ship thing. They introduce the ship this season, but magically there's a Deus ex-machina way to make it go away without a satisfactory conclusion, just like so many other things in the show. And to add insult to injury there's the "freezing the battery solution", again, created solely to build "suspense" and fill some time. Oh sure, and Michael is a bomb expert now?
In my house people were, literally, laughing out loud when Jin got blasted into oblivion... (did he really? Ah, who cares...). So this is where we are now - the same fans that once loved and discussed every aspect of the show, now are laughing in a moment that was supposed to be dramatic.

- They leave the island on the helicopter... AND THEN see that there's a leakage. And the solution is simple... *sigh* losing weight. So there goes Sawyer to the sea. I mean, how on earth could anyone think that this was a good idea? And for sure, what this jump means? Well, nothing, because it's kinda easy to swim back to the island. So it really didn't mean anything, it was just a poor way to split Sawyer from the O6. And as an added bonus it created a new "mystery" - what did Sawyer tell to Kate?

- The beyond moronic "death trigger", that gotta be magic, because it's able to transmit from deep underground (Wish my Cell Phone had this technology). oh yes, and for the umpteenth time we have someone shot and then coming back from the dead. Haven't we had enough of these?

- After a long time asleep the Others turn into killing machines again, able to easily dispose a troop of heavily armed and heavily trained mercenaries. Again, you introduce a new set of characters to the story, but just like that is easy to get rid of them - actually it only takes 30 seconds or so. By the way, I'm sorry for calling them characters, they were actually just plot devices.

- The spinning wheel of space/time, or whatever name that people can come up with that is as silly as the thing itself. Enough said.

- Cryptic talking again - Bentham's real name, etc... Once more, just like in Kate's episode with Aaron - refer to a character as "him", "his" or even worse "don't say his name!"(??) to create a shock ending. My oh my.

You know what? I'd write a ton more of bad things about this finale, but ultimately, it doesn't deserve 200 words from me, you or anyone.

Oh sure, and Michael is a bomb expert now?
And Des has ordnance disposal training, wow, how convenient (contrived) was that...

Excellent post, cintibud. Here's another perspective on it... not mine, but one that some of my favorite lost bloggers have suggested:
The writers know the big story arc and the ending TOO well. They're so focused on it, on getting there, that they rushed through the finale, sloppily tying up loose ends and trying to push viewers to the next chapter, without giving us time to assimilate it all. They forgot where they began, and where we the viewers are.
In the process they sacrificed logic and character, and dropped plot lines like hot potatoes.

I mentioned this because I realized that's how I felt last night... kinda bewildered and pushed someplace I wasn't ready yet to go.
Just something to think about.

That's probably a better explanation, since I think the writing in general has been top notch. "Rushed" is a good way to put it and that could be a direct result of the strike not leaving enough time for reflection.

I thought "frozen donkey wheel" was just a metaphor.

But an actual frozen donkey wheel?

A frozen donkey wheel???

Disappointing.

So many posts on here perfectly sum up exactly how I feel.

The stupidity of not using any life rafts to evacuate? Sawyer jumping out of the copter? Ben killing Keamy with a sort of "so? I was emotional" response? Ben pushing that stupid wheel? Etc and so on, what a waste Lost has become.

What hit me the hardest besides the ridiculous plot holes was that the incentive to watch next season is.........

Bad things happened on the island after the 6 left, and now they have to go back and drag Locke's body.

Oh wow! Let see, all of the losties that went with Locke besides Sawyer, Hurley, Miles and Arron are dead, killed by Keamy's team. I assume the first group of losties ferried by Dan were blown up on the boat. So that leaves about a total of 6 or 7 losties, Julia, Miles, Dan, Charolette left. The rest are the others and personally I could care less about them. One minute they are bumbling idiots, next they are super ninjas flying out of trees.

So they left behind less than a dozen people, with at least 6 of those being red shirts who no one cares about anyway.

Who cares what happens on the island? Jack basically pulled the trigger on Locke so why should he care. Jack has no love for Sawyer and I doubt he feels any commitment for Dan, Charolette and Miles. So Jack wanting to kill himself and becoming a total wreck is because he thinks Julia, Rose and Bernard are in trouble?

Who cares what happens on the island? Sun has already assumed Jin is dead so why does she care about going back. I could see her wanting Ben and Widmore's death but other than that, what incentive would she have to go back other than open old wounds.

Who cares what happens on the island? Sayid really wants to go back? Why would he? What does he have invested there?

The only person I could see wanting to go back is Hurley since he is so mental, but truthfully he was mental to begin with and doesn't seem all too unhappy playing chess with whoever.


Locke coming back and asking for help is lame, this finale was lame.

Weak. Very weak.


I've said this before, it is the Matrix trilogies all over again. There never was an ending, just a bunch of mysteries upon mysteries to keep people glued. Now with an end in sight you can see how bad the writing really is. There never were answers to the mysteries, it was all just made up as they went along. Frozen donkey wheel my behind.

I've been a Lost fan since the first episode. I loved the first season. I did the pee pee dance until the dvd came out and watched it so many times I think I wore out a couple of the scenes. The 2nd season I sucked it up and told myself the writer's were getting their sea legs. I still loved the show, but was having a hard time with some of the hoopla. I played the dvd's over and over and over. The 3rd season I started to get a twitch in my eye from all the nonsense. I bought the dvd and I've watched them maybe twice. This season has been so disappointing - I know, partly because of the writer's strike - that I'm having a hard time remembering why I wanted the 4th Lost season to start. I won't be pre-ordering the dvd and probably won't bother buying it at all. I really am blase now about the 5th season. I'd really love some answers, but despite the writers claims, we're still getting more questions than answers. Last night was shock and awe. Nothing more. Locke, whom we were once told was the heart of the show, we now know is dead. Maybe that's more than just a little symbolic.

I am *very* seriously disappointed in this episode. I don't think I've posted to a "didn't love it thread" before and found some of the purist overreaction found in these threads in the past to be amusing, but I found the quality of writing to be well below the standard of excellence that had been evident in most of the previous episodes. I'm beginning to wonder if some of the comedians past comments about the writers "making it up as you go along" are true, because they really seemed to have boxed themselves into situations that they couldn't find a reasonable way out of.

Now I'm not going to complain about some things that have already been brought up - Donkey Wheel? - well that's a mystery that needs to be explained, but I can suspend disbelief until then. Locke in the coffin? Same thing. Good writing can take care of things like that.

The problem is with the plot holes that have developed this season - a result of poor writing - that cannot be resolved. Here is my list

1) First and biggest is the bomb on the freighter - what is the first thing that is done when there is a bomb threat anyplace? EVACUATE!, EVACUATE!, EVACUATE! Des have training to know that - heck anyone interested in their own self preservation should know that. I doesn't matter that the Zodiac boat was out - a ship that size would have multiple survival rafts like the one in the helicopter. They weren't in the open sea - they were just offshore of an island. Everyone should have been off that boat! I can't see Michael as redeeming himself when his and Des negligence led to dozens of deaths. Heck, Michael wasn't "allowed" to blow up the ship earlier because of the innocent lives that would be lost, but this way even more innocents (losties) died. What's more, all those deaths served no purpose except to pump up the body count. If I want body count I'll watch slasher movies. The only dramatic deaths necessary were Jin's and Michael and that could have been accomplished the same way except to have everyone else watching from rafts or the helicopter.

2) WTF was with the dead man's switch anyway? Kierney expecting that after his thugs had murdered a number of unarmed people in cold blood that their friends would be model humanitarians and not want to kill him because it would harm the people on the ship that brought them? That doesn't sound like a successful strategy in the history of naval invasions, does it? Why is Locke so concerned? He didn't have a problem sticking a knife into the back of one of them earlier before they had done any harm.

3) Helicopter crash - Frank could have said "We're almost out of fuel - I'm going to put this right above the water, toss out a raft and we'll all jump. Instead they had to go through a spectacular crash in which the copter flips end over end. Not only does everyone survive, but the baby doesn't even cry.

4) Don't even need to say anything about the "camel" baby that doesn't need to eat or drink for days on end

5) Jack's surgery - we are supposed to be concerned about his incision bleeding, but then that's quickly forgotten as soon as we need him to be an action figure. Some will say that the writer's strike left less time to work with, so the above problems couldn't be adequately worked out. If so, cut out that whole appendectomy story! Didn't really push the plot along and it was ignored as soon as it became inconvenient. In other words, it was a story line to fill up some time. Get rid of it and some loose ends could have been tied up better.

I could go on, but this is too long a post already. I'm just very disappointed in the writing as it looks like they were just hoping the actions scenes would cover up the obvious holes.

Locke: "How deep is this station?"

Ben: "DEEP"

A radio signal from a detonator tramsmitter that small can't possibly
be received from that depth.

LAME.

I agree with a lot of what people have written. There was a lot of weak storytelling and some truly dubious plot contrivances. Maybe I'm just thick, but I actually found the last scene creepy and compelling (I didn't know it was Locke in there). However, the bulk of the episode had a very hollow feeling. And I think pacejunkie's outline of the next two seasons is going to play out exactly as described. Here's what confuses me about the degree of dissatisfaction expressed toward the explanations used in the finale:

My fascination with Lost has primarily been for the character histories (futures) and for the "little" island mysteries. And by little, I basically mean at all plausible. Are there other people on the island? What's that hatch? Who's pulling the strings? As far as the "big" mysteries - smoke monster, Jacob and general island "purpose" - here's my problem with them: most people seem to find them intriguing because the introduction of them produces a "What is that? How can that happen?" response. Of course, we have that response precisely because these things couldn't happen in our world. There can be no rational explanation. So, whenever the writers attempt a resolution to these questions, it's going to involve some supernatural hocus pocus (whether it's framed as scientific or not). And once you're in that realm, isn't any answer just as silly as the next? In other words, once you go down the smoke monster, Desmond premonitions, ambulatory Christian Shepard, cancer (but not asthma) healing, pregnant women-killing, time-traveling route - is a frozen donkey wheel that lame?

Its pretty bad when you realize the only character you care about is the helicopter pilot and even then you really don't care all that much.:drowsy:

I don't understand why Penny couldn't have used her money and given the O6 new lives and new identities in the sand flats of outer podunck. There was no need to lie...

Jack has to take the rest and go back because some 'bad things have happened on the island'. Well isn't that too bad....I mean it was picnic and fun and games before. When is bad stuff NOT happening on the island? Bad stuff compared to what? We could go all the way back to crashing there in the first place and work our way up. Why should this 'bad stuff' be any different and knowing the way things have gone so far even if they fix whatever it is I'm sure it will just lead to more 'bad stuff'.

I've fallen so out of love with this show its not funny.

The more I try to work this episode out the worse it gets. So explain to me again if its dangerous, unpredictable and a measure of last resort, and the Others wiped out the bad guys and Ben killed Keamy and the freighter was destroyed WHY they still had to move the island??? Wasn't the danger over at that point?

I hesitated to post negative responses, much felt, largely because such complaints can come off as sour grapes at being wrong in one's own expectations and then doing some foot stomping to vent.

However, up until now, "Lost" has brilliantly woven a complex tale so inviting of rational speculation into faith, anthropology, scientific research, history, geography, symbolism, codes, mythology, and social dynamics, that some very gifted people have invested countless hours into delving deeper, propounding theories and sharing interpretations.

Sure, we're discussing a fictional, serial tv program; but it is one in which the writers and producers seemed to toil as hard, to sustain viewer interest, as avid viewers proved willing to share a very active involvement. This finale, for me, has blown the equation to smithereens, betraying a callous disregard for character development in favor of new gimmicks to capture attention:

1. Michael, Walt ... why bring them back at all after such a prolonged absence? On the one hand, redemption is still unresolved for one, while the other is dangled as a potential Island "Special" person. How many such "special" people can one drama honestly support? The "Lost" landscape has been littered with such beings to the extent that they have stopped being special at all.

2. The chopper, the escape, the leak, the ohhhhhhh so fast patching and refueling only to fall into the drink again was hamster-on-a-wheel stuff going nowhere. Against the counterpoint of Eenie, Meenie, and Mynie taking turns alternately gaping and freezing batteries and wires, this was like the old 1930s and 1940s "Perils of Pauline" cliffhanger serials in which the heroes were saved by unlikely interruptions not seen in each preceding episode.

3. When we've already been exposed, in depth, to populations of dead, not, dead, undead, or bi-existence personnas like Claire and Christian, etc. tossing them into a critical season-ending FF seems like writing in "cameos' to fulfill some contractual obligation. They become distractions, not eerily suggestive lures into new seasons.
The Hurley-Ecko chess game I found harmless enough because only Hurley "saw" Ecko and the hallucinating was consistent with Hurley's post-Island trauma.

4. The whole sado-masochistic existence of vatic-eyed Ben is losing its appeal. On the one hand, he's a punching bag and 20th degree Ninja walking weapon, taking out Keamy with little effort. The Purge, the Freighter wipe-out, Alex, the post-Island hit list, and the endless "I wasn't being completely honest" have worn thinner than 50 year old corduroy pants handed down through generations of professional seat-minders. His torturous grinding of a frozen cheese-wheel [of fate] went beyond ludicrous; and even the writers of serial [mentioned in #2 above] would have eschewed such a tawdry resolution as to how one moves an Island. [Is there an "Island Moving for Dummies" manual in the Dharma library?].

5. No matter how cheesy some tangents have been, the writers and producers have at least held a careful course of introducing and nurturing several key Island-centric "characters," Alpert, Rousseau, Locke, Ben, Jacob, Christian, Claire, possibly Widmore, Desmond. The writers' tendency to kill off, diminish [as to real viability], or relegate [Alpert] these key characters, while shuffling a new deck each season with new characters, is having diminished returns and credibility for this viewer.

Oh, I'll be back next season, but as a much more casual observer of the series. If the writers and producers, well paid for delivering the product, can afford to be so lax in their creativity, then I can be equally less diligent a viewer.

LOST hit a speed bump when the writers strike happened, IMHO. The later episodes for the most part just didn't feel on pace as the ones before that.

For the record, I don't think Locke and Jin are dead. I think Jin's body floated into the bubble before the island moved and will next be seen rescued from the water by Dan's raft, alive. I think Doc Ray was a clue to that happening. Dan and Jin will then return to the island together (Dan's raft moved with it too).

While I, too, am hoping that Jin is alive and will turn up safe on the island, and I have a feeling that will be the case, I can't suspend my disbelief that Jin could either unconsciously float or even actively swim faster than a helicopter.

The helicopter had a few seconds head start to get to the island while Jin was on the deck of the boat (or possibly just jumped off) at the time of the explosion. Since we know the chopper wasn't within the snowglobe/bubble of the island to get moved, I can't see how Jin would have been within the affected radius, unfortunately.

There seems to be more hate of this episode here than anyplace else.

It is, for example, the highest ranked Lost episode of all time on TV.com
http://www.tv.com/lost/show/24313/top.html?tag=subtabs;top

This is a cause and effect situation.

The reason there are more negative posts here is because this thread is dedicated to those who DIDN'T LIKE the episode.

If you liked it, please post in the "Loved" it thread or the neutral thread but not here.

It is not as if this is the first week this thread has been in use. DO NOT BRING EPI LOVE into this thread. It is clearly spelled out the rules for posting in here. We are not going to get into a slap fest between the two factions.

On with the dislike.

I was very disappointed but that maybe because I am not much of a sci-fi fan; I am a huge mystery fan.
It has been the mysteries, along with the wonderful characters and the great acting, that made me love the show, however, there comes a time when unsolved mysteries become cold case files and all inerest and attention is LOST.

TNPLH- an appropriate end to a terrible season. I thought I’d never see something more asinine than Ben sending Smokey after the mercenaries, but then comes… (queue the music from the old Journey song, Wheel In The Sky):
“The wheel in sky, keeps on turning
Don’t know where the Island will be tomorrow…”

They actually had Ben turn some big frozen wheel and the Island just disappeared- like an island is similar to a boat, just floating on the water. Islands are landmasses just peaking up out of the water. If they were like boats, just floating on top, small islands would be moving all over the place and just disappear altogether in a hurricane. So, just because you toss out some lame jargon like, Casimir Effect in the Orchid video, I’m not going to buy the Island being able to be moved because Ben put metallic objects into the big microwave, went down a hole, found a big frozen wheel and turned it! What are we, 10-year-olds? I thought the key demographic for this show was something like 20 – 49 or whatever. This garbage belongs in Harry Potter fantasy stuff for kids.

This is the problem with the vast majority of sci-fi, IMO (which is why I’ve never been a real fan of it). Even if it starts out more promising and interesting (like S1 & S2), in the end, you have to pay the piper. When you introduce stupid things like time travel, in current time (2004 – 2007), you end up with lame outcomes just like this. Wormholes, Casimir Effect, etc.- it’s nothing but theories in present time. Now if the show took place around 2080 – 3000, or in another galaxy / time (like Star Wars and Star Trek, etc.) maybe I could buy it. In the year 2004- on Earth? Give me a break.

TPTB have said over and over how this show will not be a cheat when it ends, like it was all a dream or it all took place in a snow globe, but yet this is exactly how it feels on a weekly basis. How is this whole time traveling in this episode, going between the 3rd and 4th dimensions (or 11th dimension, for that matter) and moving the Island not a snow globe story? How else do you explain Daddy Shepard showing up all the time, this time just before the ship explodes? They said he is dead (about a million times) yet we keep seeing him among the living. So, he must be in another dimension / time, right? And talk about cheats- how many times have they done a scene like when Kate wakes up and finds Claire in Aaron’s room? If that’s not a cheat, what is? I’d rather have a cheat at the end of the series than watching cheats like this on a weekly basis. On a side note, in a 3-hour (total) finale, Claire was in it for what, 60 seconds, in a lame dream? I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Mercenary#4 had more screen time.

One more thing... when Hurley asked Kate how Aaron was doing (in the raft, near the end) and she said something like “great,” how many of you finished that sentence (as my wife and I did at the same time- she still owes me a Coke) with something like, “Especially since he hasn’t had anything to eat for at least 36 hours”?

I’d go down the line of all the other pathetic points, but pacejunkie (as usual) and many others already covered them quite well.

What a disaster.

Bad.

The worst part for me was the awful editting ont he fight sequence between Keamy and Sayid. Just terrible. IT felt like a fight out of an old batman eppisode, the only thing that was missing was the little bubbles that pop out saying "thwak!" and "pow!"

I have never felt this negatively about an episode of lost before. I didn't even have it all built up in my head, I had pretty much no expectations going in... honestly, if this were a season PREMEIRE, no way would I bother watching the next ep. Since it's lost... I'll watch the first few eps next season and see what happens I guess.

Oh yeah, and the scene with the frozen donkey whell = lame. I didn't even have a prolbem witht he concept itslef, like some seem to. I just think the scene was poorly done. Looked to me more like Michael Emerson was trying to pass a kidney stone than anything else...

TPTB traded Charlie, Rose, Bernard, Michael, and presumably :rolleyes: Locke, Jin, and Claire for Richard and the Freighties.

Let's join Juliet and Sawyer on the beach... we'll sit there, gaze out at where our beloveds were last seen, and pass the bottle.
Hey, I think Claudia's here too...

me too, but I am bringing more bottles. We will need them, as the group grows. a huge group of lost ex-fans, staring out at the deep blue sea of nothingness.
Lostfan 108 was right. :frown:

Didn't hate it, didn't love it.

I thought it got off to a brisk, compelling start -- lots of good action, strong feeling (as illusory as it ultimately may have been) of forward motion. After the first half, though, it seemed to lose a lot of steam. Too great a focus, once again, on overly long "dramatic scenes" that gave what had started out as a very fast-moving episode a regrettably plodding feel. The "eye-opener" scenes didn't make up for it. Sun confronts Widmore. Why? We the viewers have absolutely no clue. So, uh, remind me why we're supposed to care...? And the wheel -- was that supposed to be hilarious? Because I was laughing the entire time. What a stupid, stupid "twist." Everything about that scene was terrible, and it takes a lot for me to slam Michael Emerson.

The one redeeming scene in the second half was Desmond and Penny's reunion. Sonya did a great job with it. I thought Evangeline was very good throughout the episode. Except for the wheel scene, Michael Emerson was his usual amazing self.

Overall, though, quite a disappointment. My patience with this show is wearing thin once again. The writers need to put out more than they did with this episode; more answers were needed. What, was the Orchid orientation film supposed to be the money scene? I sure hope not.

As it stands, we're looking at season 5 being a reverse of season 4 ("Learn how the Oceanic 6 get back to The Island!"), which, in all honesty, pisses me off.

blah

Jin will be found alive floating in the ocean reverse-Doc Ray style and rescued by Dan as they all moved in both time and space. They both return to the island as they will have moved together.

Locke is now leader of the Others, causes some catastrophe because he's stupid and to fix it he has to leave the island and convince the O6 to come back under the assumed identity of Jeremy Bentham just as Ben travelled as Moriarty. Something goes wrong and Locke dies three years in the future but fear not because next season he is still alive and well on the island and by the time we find out how he dies (which will be next year's season finale) he will already be on his way back in his coffin to be resurrected Christian style.

So next year we see Locke, Richard, assorted Others, Sawyer, Juliet, Charlotte, Miles, Dan, Jin, Rose and Bernard go through some island catastrophe caused by Locke (again) while the O6 fall apart in the real world and the island torments them to return. Next year's season finale, they all return with Locke's body.

Is anyone else surprised by this?

Thank you, pace. You are very probably right. Now I don't have to watch next season. :cool: What I do need is season 0. The one where they show the monster, Big four-toed Foot, Whispers, Hurleybird, the Island, the purple sky, Walt talking backwards, etc

I do love the idea of Lost. I love the thought of doing a supernatural story in the real world. I see know hint of that orignal brilliant idea now. Now we have time travel and disappearing islands but no solid realism to back it up.

Sorry, this is going to be ranty and long!

The bomb made NO sense. I was pissed that not once did they try to evacuate everyone on the boat. And then when there was a helicopter landing, that might help save people, Desmond wastes time trying to wave them away, instead of telling everyone on the boat to EVACUATE!!!??? The trigger didn't make sense and realistically would not have worked with that much distance (not to mention time!?) between them. Why Locke didn't try and swap the monitor onto himself?

I got so sick of Ben's attitude, especially when he showed no remorse for everyone on the boat, when he talked down to Locke and when he all but rolled his eyes at Locke asking what was going on? That felt like the writers were showing us how they feel about the fans always wanting answers. Personally, that really pissed me off. During that LONG ride down in the evlevator, Ben couldn't tell Locke anything? He had to have known that there might be questions.

Locke didn't move the island, Ben did. Locke is looking less and less like an amazing dude. He messed up everything on the island after Jack and company left. If he was so special how is it that he needed the Oceanic 6?

Why would any of them want to go back? Espeically if it was to help the island? Its not like they were Michael and did anything wrong to get off the island, so they can't feel guilty. And who is on the island that they would care about? Thanks to the stupidity of the people on the boat and Locke's amazing leadership, there really aren't any people left.

I am still not getting the whole destiny of the island? Many people died in the original plane crash and at this point almost everyone else has died as well. So are they saying that their lives mean nothing, that it was all just for the main characters to get to the island? Then why not just have those people crash land on the island. I hate it when they talk about destiny and how something is SO importnat, but then they walk all over human life by having all the unnecessary characters killed off, and those that are important survive what should be fatal injuries.

As a parent, I was HORRIFIED that they put the baby (yeah had the same reaction to the camel baby - love it!) on a boat with no sustenance for 8 hours (so it would have enough time to sunburn enough? That made no sense, why did Kate stay with Desmond with the baby? She was a fugitive anyway. Or leave the baby with them? This is a great example of how they had the end idea, and then had to go back and make it fit, but in doing so,it made NO logical sense.

I totally agree with other posters: you can see how next season will play out a mile away. The only reason it will not is because they see all the accurate guesses and change the story to prove us wrong.

I almost dread to see how this finally ends, and yet I know that I have to know how it ends. I have invested too much time already to not be there at the end. But its not going to be the joy of finally getting the payoff of being loyal, its going to be the relief to finally have this chapter of my life over with! Thats pretty sad really...

That was the ending I expected. This whole season seemed out of control. I think it would have been better if the season was devoted to getting off the island using no flash forwards which pretty much killed all the action scenes leading up to the finale because you knew who survives.

Did you care when the helicopter crashed?
Did you really think Keamy was going to kill Sayid?
and so on.....

The 4- hour finale could have been dedicated to a montage of the flashforwards off of the island, and ending it with the Jack and Kate airport scene of Kate screeching on her brakes driving back to Jack and saying "How?, let's do it", they both jump in the car break into the funeral parlor and open the casket to see Locke....Ben enters to tell them "how". The end.

The biggest let down for me was the Desmond and Penny reunion. After the passion, urgency and anguish of The Constant, their meeting was an anti-climax. It seemed forced and had absolutely no feeling in it. A real disappointment.

Probably the worst episode of Lost yet. Can they really finish this show off before ratings tank to nothing. I doubt it.

Already only at 30-40 percent of what they were season 1&2. I'm afraid normal, non-spoiled watchers not active on forums and such will definitely have jumped off this ride with the wheel scene. Hell, if higher-ups at ABC read scripts like these you can't blame them for putting up the 2010 end date. Personally with this kind of gimmicks I'd have put it here and now, but...

I mean, seriously? A wheel, a magic box, season 5 will bring them back with an UFO. If you want to make it a family drama like the love triangle, fine, but don't tell us there's a big surrounding mystery; If you want to take in all the SF and fantasy fans and push your show into cons for those people then by GOD, don't throw in magic wheels. That isn't SF or fantasy, that's Harry Potter.

Hell, even in Harry Potter this would be too childish to pop up.

OTOH, over 52% rated this episode as 10 (excellent), about 18% gave it a nine, and the rest went in smaller increments. did I miss something of the show? Was I overspoiled? I wonder what a totally unspoiled viewer would see the frozen wheel or dead-locke.
Maybe my expectations of answers got in the way. Or maybe I am just tired of getting more questions than answers. If they wanted me to wait for eight months for more show, they should have given me more. May I have a fishbiscuit, please?

I did consider posting my response to the episode in the Neutral thread . . . but I decided not to.

I have a few comments to make about the finale:


*Keamy's Death - Has Keamy become one of those cliches from the 80s action movies . . . the villain who miraculously resurrects? Or has he become like some of the Others? Confused.

*The Body in the Coffin - It's Locke? How did he get off the island? Why would he leave the island? Confused.

*The Donkey Wheel - Hmmm . . . let's move on. The less said about this, the better.

*Kate's Dream - Is Kate becoming the Queen of Contrivance on this show? Her trial was a joke. And now the writers have decided to justify her guardianship of Aaron with her dream of Claire, warning her to keep Aaron away from the island? Never mind that this contradicts the psychic's warning in "Raised By Another" that Claire should be the only one to raise Aaron. Why didn't the Oceanic 6 simply state that Claire was "one of the 2 that died" and hand over Aaron to his grandmother? Oh, I forget. Cuse and Lindehof need to justify Kate's continuing presence on the show. My bad. Not confused. Annoyed.

*Michael's Death - So Harold Perrineau signed up as a regular for five episodes in order for Cuse and Lindehof to give his character the lamest death since Mr. Eko. Disgusted. I don't even want to mention the scene between Michael and Christian.

*Hurley's Rescue From the Santa Rosa Hospital - Silly. Let's move on.

And who is on the island that they would care about? Thanks to the stupidity of the people on the boat and Locke's amazing leadership, there really aren't any people left.

That’s just it, who is left on the Island from Flight #815, now? In present time (2004/2005- not sure how many days passed, Island-time, since The Constant and don’t care enough to look it up), we only have Locke for sure, right?

Weren’t Bernard and Rose on the rescue boat with Daniel- I can’t even remember (too distracted by the stupidity of no one evacuating the freighter with enough C-4 to level Manhattan)?

Sawyer seemed kind of “dead-but-here” to me- a little too happy, or something- as opposed to relieved to be alive and out of breath. Something seemed off to me- or he must be a hell of a swimmer (freighter was 5 miles off shore and he doesn’t strike me as an Ironman tri-athlete) because I didn’t see any floatation device of any kind. Maybe he was alive, I guess.

My guess, now, is Claire is definitely dead - how she died, I don’t know (probably from the RPG that leveled her house). If that’s true, she didn’t even realize it, at first (she was walking around, holding Aaron and saying at least she wasn’t seeing things anymore, before joining daddy in Jacob’s cabin)-this would support the possibility of Sawyer being dead-but-here. If I’m not mistaken, the only people who show up on LOST to “deliver messages” in dreams are people who are dead: Yemi to Eko; Anna Lucia to Eko; Yemi to Locke; Boone to Locke (in the sweat tent), etc. So now we have Claire in Kate’s dream. BTW, is EdR pregnant in real life, she’s looked puffy in her last few episodes- maybe that’s why she’s not getting any screen time??

Off the top of my head I can’t think of anyone else- I suppose some other red shirts? My head is still spinning from the whole disaster.

I'm more pissed than ever now.

Lost has always managed to pull itself back from the brink after disappearing down blind alleys, but this was the most anti-climactic finale ever. No momentum, nothing clarified, lots of plot holes and what the hell was that Lord of the Rings crap with the rune-inscribed chamber and the Wheel of Fortune all about??

About the only highlight was Yunjin Kim's excellent turn as cold-eyed post-island Sun. Jeff Fahey and Naveen Andrews did some sterling work too. Otherwise, a resounding vote of "meh" from this corner.

I have to say, after a night of perspective, I have to agree with some of the original replies to this thread after all. Whoever it was that said that all we ever get is "THE ISLAND WANTS IT SO" & how arrogant the island-& writers- are, is so right, & I can't stop thinking about it now.

Once again they tried to do way too much in the finale and nothing was treated properly as a result. Given the utter uselessness of the appendix/Jack FF episode there was definitely room for better pacing. Virtually every scene could have been expanded and fleshed out. Des/Juliet reunion was an utter disappointment right up there with the Alex/Danielle reunion in the finale last season. Also they tried to be too cute with their parallels to seasons past.

I feel nothing for the characters anymore because they are not written true to themselves - they are written in a way to fit them into the story, authenticity be damned. There is little realism or believable rationale to their decisions.

It seemed at parts that the writers were not serious - like they threw up their arms saying there isn't any believeable way to tell this story we want told so lets make it so campy/ridiculous it would be worth a laugh. I got it in the Nikki/Paulo episode and it was well done, however the frozen donkey wheel, the bomb on the boat and the helicopter losing gas at a record rate were so ridiculous and over-the-top it was insulting to anybody who put time into watching the show.

1. Michael. Months of hype for his return and he goes out like that? Are you serious? The guy was in like five episodes total this season and he gets killed by a bomb. What a let down. I was actually hoping to see him interact with the Losties again besides Sayid, Des, Jin and Sun. Terrible.

3. Locke. I knew it was coming but I told myself it was going to be Desmond. Sadly, that's not the case. Why the heck would Locke leave the only place he's called home? Secondly, if he leaves he's going to be crippled again. Or at least that's what we've been lead to believe the entire series. And if he's not going to be crippled then that makes the first two seasons of build of why he wouldn't leave to be completely meaningless.

Up until Michael's death this episode was going great. I hope they can fix this but something tells me this show isn't ever going to explain the big questions.

Agreed about Michael. His storyline for his return (including the flashback of what happened to him once he returned to civilization) was pretty lame and perfunctory. You almost have to agreed with Harold's comments that he thinks his character was returned and killed off simply because Lost's fans demanded that he be punished for his betrayal. Anyway, I wasn't much of a fan of his character in the first place so meh.

Locke being in the coffin really bothered me for alot of reasons. Killing one of the two characters wt the heart of the show is not a good idea (gone too far comes to mind). Also, the idea of Jack and Ben carting around Locke in his coffin is Weekend at Bernie's laughable. If they bring him back to life, woof, how much lower could they sink? My main problem though is that this is essentially the same cliff-hanger they gave us last season. Locke is off the island, so the mystery is how he got off the island (just like the Jack/Kate cliffhanger from last season season leading to the how did they get back to civilization cliffhanger).

Pretty lame all the way around, although I had no problem with the wheel. Thought it was kind of cool actually.

Wow. And here I stayed away because I thought I was going to be the only one posting here. Seriously, it was one of those eps where I said after, "was that good, because I just can't tell anymore". I knew I said meh when it ended but I thought maybe it was just me and everyone would be raving. Guess not. Okay then...

2) Locke -- that had to be the most disappointing final few seconds in television. Besides the fact that Locke was number one on the guess list, once Michael and Ben were dead or accounted for there wasn't anyone else it could have been. I thought there was some big secret final scene that was going to make us all go huh? I went huh all right. Huh? That's IT? So obviously something went wrong on the island, Locke left to go get the O6 and make them come back but somehow was killed. The O6 will now bring him back and Locke will become the new Christian speaking for Jacob. I'm not even the least bit curious after that finale because the rest seems so obvious. I'm not left wondering anything apart from the age old question of why I'm even still watching this predictable soap opera crap. I cannot BELIEVE who's in the coffin was the big last scene! What a waste. And all this 'you're not supposed to' and 'you're here for a reason' crap is already old. The island is a big sadistic fate driven torture machine, so why should I care about it? The characters have no free will that the island can't undo, so why should I care about them?

3) DesPenny -- speaking of what a waste. Des: How did you find us? Penny: I have a tracking station! Well DUH! We saw that like two years ago. I keep waiting for the twist that never seems to come. Oh and Penny, I'd like you to meet Kate and Aaron. Des can't bother to shed a tear for the missing Claire and for Charlie who died for her based upon Desmond's word that they would be rescued TOGETHER. None of that matters now that he has his Penny. And when Penny met the rest of them I was waiting for her to ask, where's your mate Charlie? But no. Forget that noise. Kind of took away from the heartwarming reunion knowing what it cost.


Another thing that bothered me so much about Locke being in the coffin was that apparently things go bad after Jack and the O6 left the island. So not only do we have the derivative cliffhanger of how did the O6 get off the island/how did Locke get off the island, we have the same derivative lots of bad things happened to Jack/lots of bad things happened to Locke in those intervening years.

And Penny's claim that she located Desmond from his phone call this season completely destroys the season two cliff-hanger. Apparently Desmond didn't need an EMP explosion from the Hatch exploding for penny to find the island. All he (or anyone) needed to do was go to the Arrow and use Mikail's radio link ups and call home (as when Ben showed Juliette here sister).

Overall this season finale did alot of undermining the finales that had come before it.

There have literally been a plethora of very intelligent comments in this thread, so much so that I can't really say much else in terms of the completely outrageous nature of this show without preaching to the choir. I do, however, want to reinterate a point that was mod edited because of my apparent baiting, which is understandable.

Arrogance plays a large role in this show, in every facet. The writers literally do not believe they are producing a bad show. They have been on record, numerous times, pish poshing fans and critics who antagonize the show. In a very real sense, they still believe it's the best show on television. They have even been on record damning OTHER SHOWS that presented ridiculous or shallow plot points, namely Prison Break and 24. They even took a jab at the X-Files for, get this, CLOUDING THEIR SERIES WITH A MASS OF ESSENTIALLY USELESS MYTHOLOGY AND LOSING SIGHT ON WHAT MADE THE SHOW INTERESTING. They took a swipe at Prison Break for running a series in which, i'm paraphrasing, "you basically knew they'd never get caught or else it'd be the end of the show. That's not that suspensful."

If my memory serves me right, there have been more than five occassions, and there has been a whole episode, based around the idea of a character being in peril when we ALREADY KNEW FROM A FLASH FORWARD THAT THEY WOULD NOT DIE. Jack had this whole apendectomy fiasco, when we knew A YEAR AGO he was gonna make it off the island. Ben keeps getting beat up and having a gun pointed at his head, when we've already known he's off globe trotting around the world with his ninja prowess. He's a ninja. Sigh...Ben might be the most Uber-Character ever in a show that did not feature laser beams, capes, and people flying faster than a speeding bullet.

Lastly, I want to raise this point for the people who are trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the writers (writers strike), and the people who still believe the writers are writing anything worth mentioning(there hasn't been a profound thing said on this show in a very, very, very long time):

If this show was so meticulously compiled, we would be able to go back throughout all the seasons and say: "See...I understand why they did that then." Except if you do that, the show makes even less sense. If anyone could explain to me why Ben, in Season 2, just didn't welcome the Losties into Otherland and manipulate them within his own domain instead of dressing up like savages and letting them roam his PRECIOUS ISLAND I would love to hear it.

What was the advantage of telling them "don't pass this point"? Did Ben forget there was a hatch right around where they were at? If he takes them in, he can basically control them all, which is what he loooooves to do. He could then simply give them some kind of memory altering drug(you don't think the Great Ben doesn't have one of those?) and send them BACK FROM WHENCE THEY CAME. Or he could have just MURDERED THEM ALL. He ends up doing a majority of that anyway. He couldn't have just got his back surgery and made up some fake story on how they survived? Isn't he a man of limitless resources? Jack was able to fool the WHOLE WORLD into thinking something happened that really didn't.

This is not a story anymore, it's just a series of plot twists masked as a story. It's simply an illusion that's working less and less frequently. At one time, it was such a great show...

There have literally been a plethora of very intelligent comments in this thread, so much so that I can't really say much else in terms of the completely outrageous nature of this show without preaching to the choir. I do, however, want to reinterate a point that was mod edited because of my apparent baiting, which is understandable.

Arrogance plays a large role in this show, in every facet. The writers literally do not believe they are producing a bad show. They have been on record, numerous times, pish poshing fans and critics who antagonize the show. In a very real sense, they still believe it's the best show on television. They have even been on record damning OTHER SHOWS that presented ridiculous or shallow plot points, namely Prison Break and 24. They even took a jab at the X-Files for, get this, CLOUDING THEIR SERIES WITH A MASS OF ESSENTIALLY USELESS MYTHOLOGY AND LOSING SIGHT ON WHAT MADE THE SHOW INTERESTING. They took a swipe at Prison Break for running a series in which, i'm paraphrasing, "you basically knew they'd never get caught or else it'd be the end of the show. That's not that suspensful."

If my memory serves me right, there have been more than five occassions, and there has been a whole episode, based around the idea of a character being in peril when we ALREADY KNEW FROM A FLASH FORWARD THAT THEY WOULD NOT DIE. Jack had this whole apendectomy fiasco, when we knew A YEAR AGO he was gonna make it off the island. Ben keeps getting beat up and having a gun pointed at his head, when we've already known he's off globe trotting around the world with his ninja prowess. He's a ninja. Sigh...Ben might be the most Uber-Character ever in a show that did not feature laser beams, capes, and people flying faster than a speeding bullet.

Lastly, I want to raise this point for the people who are trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the writers (writers strike), and the people who still believe the writers are writing anything worth mentioning(there hasn't been a profound thing said on this show in a very, very, very long time):

If this show was so meticulously compiled, we would be able to go back throughout all the seasons and say: "See...I understand why they did that then." Except if you do that, the show makes even less sense. If anyone could explain to me why Ben, in Season 2, just didn't welcome the Losties into Otherland and manipulate them within his own domain instead of dressing up like savages and letting them roam his PRECIOUS ISLAND I would love to hear it.

What was the advantage of telling them "don't pass this point"? Did Ben forget there was a hatch right around where they were at? If he takes them in, he can basically control them all, which is what he loooooves to do. He could then simply give them some kind of memory altering drug(you don't think the Great Ben doesn't have one of those?) and send them BACK FROM WHENCE THEY CAME. Or he could have just MURDERED THEM ALL. He ends up doing a majority of that anyway. He couldn't have just got his back surgery and made up some fake story on how they survived? Isn't he a man of limitless resources? Jack was able to fool the WHOLE WORLD into thinking something happened that really didn't.

This is not a story anymore, it's just a series of plot twists masked as a story. It's simply an illusion that's working less and less frequently. At one time, it was such a great show...

Great points. If ben was so concerned about the possible dangers posed by the crash survivors, and the crash survivors so desperately wanted off the island, why didn't Ben just put the survivors on the sub and send them home?

It's a basic flaw in the show's premise that was created as soon as it was revelaed in season three that the Others had communication with and traveled bck and forth from, the outside world.

And we still don't know what is so special about the island and their community that justifies actually deciding to stay there.

You're making some bang-on points, Crimsonking. I agree with you on a number of them. I disagree, however, with the idea that the show is being haphazardly thrown together.

Let's look at Ben. True, Ben's only part of the story now because he was a hit with fans on his original three-episode stint. But, in retrospect, I think TPTB have actually done a very good job of making it seem like he's been part of the story from the moment "Henry Gale" was created. (And who knows, maybe he actually has been part of "the plan" for much longer than we've been led to believe.)

So: Why didn't Ben welcome the Losties in his world, or even just send them home on the sub? I could very well be wrong, but I suspect he thought they might be Widmore plants. That, to me, would almost fully explain his antics. Then you factor in his supposed directions from Jacob, and his tendency to "snap" and...well, you get the point.

I think it's also worth mentioning Popular Mechanics' ongoing Lost discussion (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4266329.html), which makes it pretty clear that Darlton is putting some serious thought into things. At least on the science end of the spectrum.

Just my two cents. :)

I've been saying this since Lockdown.

They aren't telling a story, they are stringing one out for as long as they can without giving away the ending. They can't reveal what The Island is all about, even though it's the core of the story, because doing so would give away their ending.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it looks like their story doesn't actually have enough substance. That's why it's filled out with artificial plot-twists and cliffhangers, preposterous character behaviour ("development"), and tortured dialogue.

"Who is in the coffin?" is not a mystery, it's something you hid from us. It's contrived suspense to keep the show floating, instead of just telling us the real story.
Likewise, "Who are the Oceanic 6?", "Who is Ben's man on the boat?", "How did Jack get his tattoos?", "Did Locke really blow up the submarine?"

Filler/padding. All of it, the whole season.

He this, him that, his the other. Just say 'Aaron', for the love of Jacob.
Jeremy Bentham this... that... the other. Good grief!

And why can't anybody just explain what the heck they're playing at to anybody else? Why can't Ben just tell Locke what the Island is all about, so Locke might have some chance of convincing Jack to stay (if that's so important)?

And while I'm at it, can anyone explain why the Oceanic 6 have to lie? To keep the other survivors safe? Why is lying necessary for that? Why do Kate, Sayid, Hurley and Sun go along with the big lie just because Jack says the truth would endanger the survivors still on the island?
How come none of them even argue that if the Oceanic 6 all told the truth, they'd all be telling the same story, and then it would be Widmore who would be in trouble? Blow the whistle on the baddies!
That was one of the worst bits of television I've ever seen.

They aren't telling a story, they are stringing one out for as long as they can without giving away the ending. They can't reveal what The Island is all about, even though it's the core of the story, because doing so would give away their ending.

That pretty much says it. They keep saying they know exactly how the story ends.
I'd be just as happy if they didn't.
I'd rather they quit thinking about that last frame and pay more attention to the story and characters - and actors - they have now.
Furlan and Pace, two great actors and all-time fan favorites, apparently asked to be written off largely because their storylines were diminishing and their characters were going nowhere. Perrineau seems to have been treated shoddily, twice over.
I'm beginning to think the Island will be the "last man standing", figuratively.
All for a promised blockbuster ending in 2010. Does anyone doubt we'll all have their precious ending and the nature of their precious monster figured out long before that last episde? Without the characters and story integrity, will anyone care?

I'm old enough to remember two brilliant closure scenes in TV series history: the finale of the Newhart Show and the departure of Col. Blake from M.A.S.H. Neither of those were planned more than a month in advance. The first was conceived in a brilliant last-minute flash, and stands undisputed as the most jaw-dropping twist ever done on any series. The second grew organically and collabaratively out of respect for the characters' relationship with each other and also the writers' understanding of their show's war setting. The M.A.S.H. series finale was equally memorable... again based upon respect for the characters, the story, and the setting... and most of all, the actors, who say their input was sought. (Can you imagine that, on Lost?)

Closer to home, Lost's spectacular, divine, blockbuster Pilot was conceived, cast, written, and filmed in 12 weeks.
Writers' strike be damned, we know they can do better.

And why can't anybody just explain what the heck they're playing at to anybody else? Why can't Ben just tell Locke what the Island is all about, so Locke might have some chance of convincing Jack to stay (if that's so important)?

And while I'm at it, can anyone explain why the Oceanic 6 have to lie? To keep the other survivors safe? Why is lying necessary for that?

Yep. I've been wondering the same thing myself.

Normally, after watching an episode i think about Lost for days afterwards. I didn't do that today. This season finale left me with a feeling of disappointment, but I gave myself a day to see if it was just 'me', 'my mood', or something. Well, I still feel the same.

I'm sure I'll watch next season, but honestly, I won't be chomping at the bit for it to begin. :frown:

I've been saying this since Lockdown.

They aren't telling a story, they are stringing one out for as long as they can without giving away the ending. They can't reveal what The Island is all about, even though it's the core of the story, because doing so would give away their ending.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it looks like their story doesn't actually have enough substance. That's why it's filled out with artificial plot-twists and cliffhangers, preposterous character behaviour ("development"), and tortured dialogue.

"Who is in the coffin?" is not a mystery, it's something you hid from us. It's contrived suspense to keep the show floating, instead of just telling us the real story.
Likewise, "Who are the Oceanic 6?", "Who is Ben's man on the boat?", "How did Jack get his tattoos?", "Did Locke really blow up the submarine?"

Filler/padding. All of it, the whole season.

He this, him that, his the other. Just say 'Aaron', for the love of Jacob.
Jeremy Bentham this... that... the other. Good grief!

And why can't anybody just explain what the heck they're playing at to anybody else? Why can't Ben just tell Locke what the Island is all about, so Locke might have some chance of convincing Jack to stay (if that's so important)?

And while I'm at it, can anyone explain why the Oceanic 6 have to lie? To keep the other survivors safe? Why is lying necessary for that? Why do Kate, Sayid, Hurley and Sun go along with the big lie just because Jack says the truth would endanger the survivors still on the island?
How come none of them even argue that if the Oceanic 6 all told the truth, they'd all be telling the same story, and then it would be Widmore who would be in trouble? Blow the whistle on the baddies!
That was one of the worst bits of television I've ever seen.

Yeah, all this coyness has gotten really old and lame. Not to mention the repetitive dialogue and idiot character decisions: Kate, going back for Jin, like we're supposed to believe she can find him on a freighter she's never laid eyes on; Juliet doing a dejected Desmond with a bottle in her hand; Jack's terrible bedside manner being shown once again when he yells at Sun that Jin is gone. Like that's supposed to make her snap out of it; and Michael - you can go now. WTF! HP deserved so much more than wasting his talents on freezing a bomb. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

But what really pisses me off is the way the producers/writers seem to be wagging their middle finger at their loyal fans. I'm aware that they have said it isn't necessary to read the forums or listen to the podcasts in order to enjoy this show. But they have acknowledged their use of "easter eggs" to reward their loyal viewers and they've enjoyed giving us teasers in the podcasts. And for what - so they could outright lie to us? I for one will never listen to another podcast and I don't intend to buy the S4 dvds. Last year left me groaning about waiting eight months for the return of LOST. Not this year. I think I'll go to Cabo, stick my toes in the sand and order up a rum on the rocks. :biggrin:

The Body in the Coffin - It's Locke? How did he get off the island? Why would he leave the island? Confused.

It's the last scene of the season, a sort of cliffhanger. It's meant to confuse you, it gives you something to mull over for the next 8 months. If there was nothing left over noone would tune into next season's premiere.

The Donkey Wheel - Hmmm . . . let's move on. The less said about this, the better.

I don't get why people are so surprised by this. The four toed statue, the supposed temple, the hieroglyphs on Ben's secret doorway in OthersTown. They've been hinting to an ancient civilization for ages, something predating both Dharma and the Others, it's quite refreshing tbh, I think it adds an interesting layer to the show.

I mean what were you expecting, another computer in a hatch? This is probably an ancient civilization we're talking about. It was different as well, which was cool. A far cry from the Dharma retro technology style, just shows you how different the original inhabitants must have been.

Kate's Dream - Is Kate becoming the Queen of Contrivance on this show? Her trial was a joke. And now the writers have decided to justify her guardianship of Aaron with her dream of Claire, warning her to keep Aaron away from the island? Never mind that this contradicts the psychic's warning in "Raised By Another" that Claire should be the only one to raise Aaron. Why didn't the Oceanic 6 simply state that Claire was "one of the 2 that died" and hand over Aaron to his grandmother? Oh, I forget. Cuse and Lindehof need to justify Kate's continuing presence on the show. My bad. Not confused. Annoyed.

Ok, i agree with this. Kate's character is extremely poorly written on the show. Aaron does seem to be a bit of a contrived reason to keep one of the main MAIN cast on the show.

And Penny's claim that she located Desmond from his phone call this season completely destroys the season two cliff-hanger. Apparently Desmond didn't need an EMP explosion from the Hatch exploding for penny to find the island. All he (or anyone) needed to do was go to the Arrow and use Mikail's radio link ups and call home (as when Ben showed Juliette here sister).

Desmond didn't turn the failsafe key to reach Penny, that wasn't the plan. He turned the key to save everyone from dying, which they almost certainly would have if that hatch had just been left like that. Like a massive black hole sucking matter inside. But instead of sucking outer space inside, it's vacuuming up all of the survivors.

If my memory serves me right, there have been more than five occassions, and there has been a whole episode, based around the idea of a character being in peril when we ALREADY KNEW FROM A FLASH FORWARD THAT THEY WOULD NOT DIE. Jack had this whole apendectomy fiasco, when we knew A YEAR AGO he was gonna make it off the island. Ben keeps getting beat up and having a gun pointed at his head, when we've already known he's off globe trotting around the world with his ninja prowess. He's a ninja. Sigh...Ben might be the most Uber-Character ever in a show that did not feature laser beams, capes, and people flying faster than a speeding bullet.

That's a pretty good point, they're being quite hypocritical there. The beauty is seeing the how, why and the where, not the survival of a character that has already been confirmed to last the length of the series (pretty much). Didn't much like the Jack episode.

This is not a story anymore, it's just a series of plot twists masked as a story. It's simply an illusion that's working less and less frequently. At one time, it was such a great show...

And according to you, when was it such a great show? If you say season 1, you're kind of digging your own hole there.

Filler/padding. All of it, the whole season.

Wow. I've heard this season get called a range of things (rushed, not enough character devlopment, too plot driven etc) but NEVER filler. If anything there isn't enough of it.

And why can't anybody just explain what the heck they're playing at to anybody else? Why can't Ben just tell Locke what the Island is all about, so Locke might have some chance of convincing Jack to stay (if that's so important)?

Because that's sloppy writing. Doing something and explaining it at the same time, is something anime, japanese role playing games, and poor tv shows do.

The plot needs to be revealed visually, and retain a certain amount of ambiguity to the viewer. If Ben told everything to Locke, Locke would tell everything to the survivors, and then we wouldn't have mysteries or much of a show.

And while I'm at it, can anyone explain why the Oceanic 6 have to lie? To keep the other survivors safe? Why is lying necessary for that? Why do Kate, Sayid, Hurley and Sun go along with the big lie just because Jack says the truth would endanger the survivors still on the island?
How come none of them even argue that if the Oceanic 6 all told the truth, they'd all be telling the same story, and then it would be Widmore who would be in trouble? Blow the whistle on the baddies!
That was one of the worst bits of television I've ever seen.

"We've been on a strange uncharted island, that has mystical powers, and was invisible to the outside world until our mate Desmond (who was on the island before us, don't ask us) turned the fail safe key, and obliterated the electro magnetic shielding device.

Oh and it cures cancer, paralysis, and grants certain people eternal life"

Yeh that'd sound good wouldn't it. Not to mention the fact that the Island has been moved and they can't prove ANY OF IT, and in this world, a lack of proof leaves you with not very much at all. All they have is his word, so why not lie? At least you wouldn't get thrown in a nut house with Hurley then.

The point is no one would believe them. Hell i wouldn't believe them.

It's the last scene of the season, a sort of cliffhanger. It's meant to confuse you, it gives you something to mull over for the next 8 months. If there was nothing left over noone would tune into next season's premiere.



I don't get why people are so surprised by this. The four toed statue, the supposed temple, the hieroglyphs on Ben's secret doorway in OthersTown. They've been hinting to an ancient civilization for ages, something predating both Dharma and the Others, it's quite refreshing tbh, I think it adds an interesting layer to the show.

I mean what were you expecting, another computer in a hatch? This is probably an ancient civilization we're talking about. It was different as well, which was cool. A far cry from the Dharma retro technology style, just shows you how different the original inhabitants must have been.



Ok, i agree with this. Kate's character is extremely poorly written on the show. Aaron does seem to be a bit of a contrived reason to keep one of the main MAIN cast on the show.



Desmond didn't turn the failsafe key to reach Penny, that wasn't the plan. He turned the key to save everyone from dying, which they almost certainly would have if that hatch had just been left like that. Like a massive black hole sucking matter inside. But instead of sucking outer space inside, it's vacuuming up all of the survivors.