Discuss the good and bad about the episode. If you totally loved the episode or totally didn't love the episode and do not wish to discuss the pros and cons, please visit the Loved it or Didn't Love it threads.

allright i will kick this off-
i thought it was a superb episode, but i was annoyed with the amount of commercials-
i mean come on, there would be like 7 minutes of show, and 5 of commercial-
i understand this is what pay for it all to happen- but man, i would rather 30 minutes of show and then a 10 minute break- i wouldnt care if they started using in the show promos- you know- a pepsi can here, a ford truck there...

but the show was good-
i felt when you let your expectations get too high though, it is a little tough to meet them and i am not sure if i was given what i was hoping for.
i loved it, especially the first and last 15 minutes, the middle 1.5 hours were a little drawn out, imo
wow- its a long time until feb

This is also just an observation coming from someone who reads many of the spoilers but not nearly all of the spoilers. I thought the episode was very good and that the people who didn't seem to like it as much seem to be people who were thoroughly spoiled ahead of time and then were surprised when they weren't surprised. People wouldn't have nearly as many specific expectations if they didn't know so much ahead of time. Just sayin'

Exactly Nancy. Well said and precisely the reason I avoid all spoilers (except for the previews of the next episode). I personally don't want to "figure it all out ahead of time". I want to be entertained. I was certainly entertained by this finale. :)

This is also just an observation coming from someone who reads many of the spoilers but not nearly all of the spoilers. I thought the episode was very good and that the people who didn't seem to like it as much seem to be people who were thoroughly spoiled ahead of time and then were surprised when they weren't surprised. People wouldn't have nearly as many specific expectations if they didn't know so much ahead of time. Just sayin'

Well, guess I'll be your first exception to the rule because I don't read spoilers and I wasn't thrilled with the finale. My hubby doesn't even read any of the forums and he was less than thrilled. But we're not part of the gen-Yer audience that the producers seem to be aiming more for these days with their shock&awe scenes. I'll watch next season when it comes around but I don't feel in the least bit anxious for its return like I have in the past.

I'm posting here because I'm not quite on the loved it boat nor the hated it boat. Right now, this episode was just average for me. I want to give it above a seven, but something is holding me back from ranking it higher. :undecide: I think it was all of those unnecessary moments mixed in with non stellar dialog. The dialog on this show needs a lot of work. Everyone knows this by now, but I absolutely despise most of Ben's comments. I hope that changes next season.

I am going to watch it again and see if it is better. I was disappointed and I agree with you about spoilers. I did a bad thing and kept checking the "watching live on the East Coast" dumb thing to do as when it came on I kind of knew what was what. But then the other thing I got to thinking was that I do not like Jack nor Kate's characters and you would have to in order to like this episode. I gave it a 7, but almost a 6.

I am going to watch it again and see if it is better. I was disappointed and I agree with you about spoilers. I did a bad thing and kept checking the "watching live on the East Coast" dumb thing to do as when it came on I kind of knew what was what. But then the other thing I got to thinking was that I do not like Jack nor Kate's characters and you would have to in order to like this episode. I gave it a 7, but almost a 6.

I was almost completely spoiler free for this episode :), but yet, I still found it underwhelming in some cases. I don't think you have to like Jack or Kate though in order to enjoy this episode. There was a lot going on. At the same time though, even though a lot happened, it almost felt like nothing in certain areas. :undecide:

I'm posting here because I'm not quite on the loved it boat nor the hated it boat. Right now, this episode was just average for me. I want to give it above a seven, but something is holding me back from ranking it higher. :undecide: I think it was all of those unnecessary moments mixed in with non stellar dialog. The dialog on this show needs a lot of work. Everyone knows this by now, but I absolutely despise most of Ben's comments. I hope that changes next season.

Ben's dialog is among the best ever on the show. He always steals each episode with the best lines. Usually something subtle and incredibly witty.

The kind of dialog that needs to be scrubbed up is that terrible love triangle claptrap. Although you might agree with this.

Ben's dialog is among the best ever on the show. He always steals each episode with the best lines. Usually something subtle and incredibly witty.

Well that's your opinion and you are welcome to feel that way. I don't. I barely can watch Ben anymore and this is coming from someone that used to consider Ben in her top six favorite characters.

The kind of dialog that needs to be scrubbed up is that terrible love triangle claptrap. Although you might agree with this.

Yep :biggrin:

I was one of the people that was spoiled and have to say that the episode played out much better than it sounded.
I re-watched the episode last night and kinda have mixed feelings about it. For me the finale didn't have the wow factor of last years finale. After seeing that finale i was itching to see the next season. Who was on the freighter, why are they bad, why was Jack desprete to get back to the island.
The only thing im really intrested in for next season is where is the island and what bad things happened on it. I'm not really intrested in the oceanic 6 to be honest.
To me the characters have no reason to go back to the island.
The only character who might go back is Kate for Sawyer. But then she was quite happy to settle down and marry Jack so she has no reason really.
Also another thing that kinda ruined the episode was the cgi on some of the scenes. The blowing up of the boat looked a little daft.
Saying that i loved the scene with the frozen donkey wheel and i'm intruiged by the early settlers. I would love a flashback to there time on the island .
I will be back next season as i've invested so much time on the show. But i can see a lot of people now turning off after the finale and can see ratings dropping down to the 8.0 mark

Is it just me, or does anyone else get the feeling this episode givs tremendous weight to the theory of Adam and eve they found in season 1 being Jack and Kate themselves, with Jack returning to the island with those same stones he pocketed back then?

With two seasons left and season 5 focussing on WHY they come back, that leaves ample room for a large storyline, and with each little thing happening today at the end I was 'heh, those people on that board might be right about that one'.

Well that's your opinion and you are welcome to feel that way. I don't. I barely can watch Ben anymore and this is coming from someone that used to consider Ben in her top six favorite characters.

Well i enjoy Ben's dialog as i said previously, but i do have an opinion you might share, and that which i think makes Ben quite annoying. I mean, the show ever since the beginning of season 3 has been "The Benjamin Linus Show", and even though i enjoy his character, and it's incredibly written, it did pee me off a bit how he had all the answers, and everyone else on the show were just puppets dancing to his tune.

But one thing this finale did was taking Ben off the island (At least for a while), so now he can't control everything on-island. I thought it was brilliant how they did it, and now next season, the island inhabitants have destiny in their own hands, and seeing the results is going to be fantastic! Even if it is bad like Locke said!

To me the characters have no reason to go back to the island. The only character who might go back is Kate for Sawyer. But then she was quite happy to settle down and marry Jack so she has no reason really.

What? The 06's life are in ruins. Sun's life is in ruins without Jin (who also may be alive, which could a reason for her to go back). Jack's life is in tatters, Kate won't even speak to him or return his calls. Kate is seeing visions of Claire and is wracked with guilt over taking her child and leaving Sawyer behind. Hurley is going insane, and is encountering visions, willing him to go back, and he's also feeling guilty over leaving everyone behind. Sayid's life was good for a short while with Nadia, but then it was ruined with her death, and now he's a shadow of a man, hunting people down and working for Ben.

They all have a reason to go back. The islands want them there.

Also another thing that kinda ruined the episode was the cgi on some of the scenes. The blowing up of the boat looked a little daft.

True, it wasn't the best. I thought island moving scene CG was good, but the freighter blowing up looked a bit cheap. It wasn't TERRIBLE, but not particularly great.

Saying that i loved the scene with the frozen donkey wheel and i'm intruiged by the early settlers. I would love a flashback to there time on the island.
I will be back next season as i've invested so much time on the show. But i can see a lot of people now turning off after the finale and can see ratings dropping down to the 8.0 mark

Agreed, i also loved the frozen wheel scene! In hindsight anyone can describe it and make it seem stupid, but the execution was flawless, and the music, oh the music!

I think the only people the finale will turn off for next season, was some of the fans watching the show for the wrong reasons.

I think the only people the finale will turn off for next season, was some of the fans watching the show for the wrong reasons.

You mean, people wanting semi-plausible explanations or at least scenes which do not provoke hysterical laughter like Ben turning a frozen donkey wheel with a face as if he's constipated, with an orchestra playing in the background?

Yeah, colour me in that camp.

And what is a right reason to watch a series, anyway? Accepting anything thrown at you?

You mean, people wanting semi-plausible explanations or at least scenes which do not provoke hysterical laughter like Ben turning a frozen donkey wheel with a face as if he's constipated, with an orchestra playing in the background?

Yeah, colour me in that camp.

And what is a right reason to watch a series, anyway? Accepting anything thrown at you?

The thing is though that scene was always going to split the fans. I believe when you look at the show's fans we are divided like the main characters. Some fans are like Locke a man of faith, and some are like Jack a man of science.
Yes some answers to the show i imagine will be grounded in science and that some of the answers are grounded in faith.
I admit when i first saw the info on the wheel i really thought i was gonna be turned away from the show. But i thought it was executed right. I can undestand why some fans would hate it.
I'm not gonna have ago at people for not liking it it is a tv show after all. The great thing about the show is it always brings up debates. I've never been part of a show or a community that divides the fans like this show.
I imagine when the show finishes we will still br discussing the show as this is the power of the show.
All i'll say is enjoy the ride, there's stuff in the show i hate like countless others all i'll say is sit back and just see where it takes you. There's only 34 eps left then after that if u hate it not like you have to evr talk about it again.
By the way sorry for rambling lol

Well i enjoy Ben's dialog as i said previously, but i do have an opinion you might share, and that which i think makes Ben quite annoying. I mean, the show ever since the beginning of season 3 has been "The Benjamin Linus Show", and even though i enjoy his character, and it's incredibly written, it did pee me off a bit how he had all the answers, and everyone else on the show were just puppets dancing to his tune.

Yes I do agree with you that that is one of the reasons that I find him annoying. He wasn't an original survivor, but now it seems like him and his crew are given more of the important story lines. I'm glad that most people seem to find him appealing, as they do Richard, Desmond and Penny, all of whom get very little screen time. However, Richard, as fascinating as he may be, isn't giving me much that I can relate to right now. Neither is Desmond and Penny even though I know they are a popular couple with the fans. Maybe I like the characters that on one level are complicated, but on another level really simplistic and easy to figure out lol. Richard is too complicated and the Desmond and Penny storyline is rather boring an uncomplicated lol. This is me now being too nitpicky. :)

Back to Ben though, not only do I find Ben's dialog grating at times, but his facial expressions are the same day in and day out. He didn't even show much feeling when he got his own daughter killed. :frown: I'm sorry to say that for a character that was so mysterious during seasons two and three, has become so tiresome during imo what is now the climax of the story. :undecide:

The day after this episode aired I felt for sure I was going to post in the "hated it" thread, but after a few more days I'm upgrading my opinion slightly.

There were many annoying, irksome moments - mostly characters acting out of character or randomly unheroic. Hurley asking Jack if they could go back to look for Claire AFTER they get to the boat? Jack not letting Kate go after Jin? (And Kate not putting up much of an argument?) Ben's reaction to Locke pointing out that he just killed everyone on the boat? (That one is admittedly open for debate, but it still felt somehow wrong to me). If the writers did that because they felt the need to construct specific reasons for Jack and everyone to feel guilty in the future, well they needn't have worked so hard because just plain old survivor's guilt would have been convincing enough for me.

I was fine with the donkey wheel scene. I'm pretty much happy with the explanation that the island is one big machine created by an ancient race with knowledge superior to our own. At least for now. And I'm finally on board with Ben hijacking the show. It took a whole season for me to just accept it and enjoy it (even though I always loved the character). I'm disappointed that they somehow couldn't work in a flashback to the circumstances surrounding his adoption of Alex - it would have fit in really well with some of the things that happened in this episode.

I was also disappointed with the sudden Desmond/Penny reunion. I would have expected there to be some "Griffin & Sabine" type hitch to their reunion, like they would both show up at the same place but in different dimensions or something.

I have to say that the scene with Kate rescuing Ben and cutting his bonds definitely made the episode worthwhile, though. Probably one of my favorite scenes in the whole season. I'm such a sucker for those two characters.

All I want to say is that I thought the frozen donkey wheel was the best scene of the finale. I did not expect that in the least and I thought it was a great, dramatic moment which showed how important the island is to Ben. I am so excited to find out more about the hostiles or the others or whoever the island's original inhabitants were, their donkey wheels and four toed statues and maybe the tunnel to call smokey. Ben has also become one of my favorite characters. I prefer him to most of the original cast. I would enjoy this show if it were just Ben and Locke:) Just kidding...sort of. I'm a hardcore science fiction fan, so the stranger and weirder this show gets the more I like it.

Right now, after a re-watch, the finale remains just average for me. I'm going to go ahead and rank the show a seven, but for someone that was completely unspoiled for the finale (except for the Skate kiss) it was a huge letdown and I am shocked that I didn't enjoy it. Maybe if I learn to lighten up on Ben, I will enjoy the show more. :undecide:

I think it's too hard to top last years' finales simply because they're actually starting to get to the answering part of the show, rather than the mystery building phase. As this happens, some things just can't be surprises. Like the coffin inhabitant, the man on the boat, etc. And for those who are annoyed with the show taking a new turn and "doesn't even seem like Lost", I would think they're in for another letdown next year. The backdrop has changed, and the show will have to do so as well. I'm actually rather intrigued with off-island stories. It's been pleasant to not have to sit through yet another papaya-counting scene during season 4.

My favourite parts of this finale were most definitely Ben's moment of nobility, the opening scene, and the Penny/Desmond reunion.

My position on the episode has moved to Neutral, considering I managed to find some positive aspects of the finale.

Here it is: http://felaries65.insanejournal.com/23591.html#cutid1

I'm posting here because I'm not quite on the loved it boat nor the hated it boat. Right now, this episode was just average for me. I want to give it above a seven, but something is holding me back from ranking it higher. :undecide: I think it was all of those unnecessary moments mixed in with non stellar dialog. The dialog on this show needs a lot of work. Everyone knows this by now, but I absolutely despise most of Ben's comments. I hope that changes next season.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, BUT not liking Ben's comments is a big ? , as far as I'm concerned!?? He gives some of the best comments on the whole show!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, BUT not liking Ben's comments is a big ? , as far as I'm concerned!?? He gives some of the best comments on the whole show!

Well that's your opinion. I'm allowed to not agree with it lol.

This is also just an observation coming from someone who reads many of the spoilers but not nearly all of the spoilers. I thought the episode was very good and that the people who didn't seem to like it as much seem to be people who were thoroughly spoiled ahead of time and then were surprised when they weren't surprised. People wouldn't have nearly as many specific expectations if they didn't know so much ahead of time. Just sayin'
I didn't get any of the spoilers for this episode, and I still thought it was just ok, for a finale. There were a lot of great moments: Des and Penny's reunion, Kate's cleavage. But there were a bunch of things that weren't so great about the episode. For instance, it was kinda boring. If I watch LOST, I don't want to be bored. If I watch LOST the 40th time around, I don't want to be bored. But I was sorta bored halfway through the episode. I kept looking at my watch asking when will it be over.

Is it just me, or does anyone else get the feeling this episode givs tremendous weight to the theory of Adam and eve they found in season 1 being Jack and Kate themselves, with Jack returning to the island with those same stones he pocketed back then?


I have my own theory on whom Adam and Eve might be. And it has nothing to do with Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Rose, Bernard or any of the regular Losties.