I am Speechless [Archive] - { Flicks N Shows | Fringe Division

JPolarBear

05-30-2008, 04:38 PM

I know that was hilarious that is really was a frozen donkey wheel!
Although I must say I thought Locke would have been the one actually moving the Island.
I can't help but wonder if Ben is going to use the O6 to gain entry back to the Island?

OMG, addie, have you been on the boards ever since the show was over last night? ur first post here is timed at 9pm my time...12am urs. U OK?

I just wanted to say you (and i) were very good in our guesses of how the O6 gets rescued..is that in another thread i haven't found yet?

You were right about Penny coming in a boat..i went with a seaplane due to the time in getting there factors. but Penny did arrive, just in time, like the calvary...a 'duex ex machina' savior.

my prediction of how the island would 'just disappear' with a purple EM haze and weird sounds was right on...they even almost said "Dude, where's my Island?"

I had guessed the raft from the chopper would wash up on Hydra...you correctly said Hydra would go along with the main island...funny how they put that info in the script.

What NO ONE i read got was the KISS solution of how the O6 get to Sumba to make their 'official entrance' back to the outside world....Penny took them there!!!! So Simple, so logical! I loved it, and no one thought of it.

And loved that Penny and Desmond got their big reunion smootch. does that mean they are off the show now?

Is there a thread with a "where are they now?" for all the left-behinder's?

addictedfan

05-30-2008, 06:15 PM

OMG, addie, have you been on the boards ever since the show was over last night? ur first post here is timed at 9pm my time...12am urs. U OK?

I just wanted to say you (and i) were very good in our guesses of how the O6 gets rescued..is that in another thread i haven't found yet?

You were right about Penny coming in a boat..i went with a seaplane due to the time in getting there factors. but Penny did arrive, just in time, like the calvary...a 'duex ex machina' savior.

my prediction of how the island would 'just disappear' with a purple EM haze and weird sounds was right on...they even almost said "Dude, where's my Island?"

I had guessed the raft from the chopper would wash up on Hydra...you correctly said Hydra would go along with the main island...funny how they put that info in the script.

What NO ONE i read got was the KISS solution of how the O6 get to Sumba to make their 'official entrance' back to the outside world....Penny took them there!!!! So Simple, so logical! I loved it, and no one thought of it.

And loved that Penny and Desmond got their big reunion smootch. does that mean they are off the show now?

Is there a thread with a "where are they now?" for all the left-behinder's?

Ummm...yeah sure I've been here all night and all morning?!! :p NOT!!!! LOL!
I was up late last night talking Lost but I've always been a night owl...plus that episode had my adrenaline going bigtime!
I also didn't return until a lunch break at work. This episode just has me "pumped" up!

Yep.... I was actually right on a lot of my predictions for a change.:grin:
It never occurred to me either that Penny would get them to the fishing village.

My hubby actually said I bet Penny helps them with their coverup story and drops them off near the rescue Island. I thought he was gonna be soooo wrong.....but he nailed it!

alosta

05-30-2008, 06:18 PM

I can take in polar bears, weird experiments, a computer where you push a button ever 108 minutes, even Desmond's time traveling events but not this the whole freaking island is go... it's moved that is truely above and beyond. Now don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan... I have always been and always will be... but this you have to admit was a little over the top even within the context of Lost. Heck even the smoke monster seems logical compared to moving a body of land.

I totally agree!

JPolarBear

05-30-2008, 06:40 PM

My hubby actually said I bet Penny helps them with their coverup story and drops them off near the rescue Island. I thought he was gonna be soooo wrong.....but he nailed it!

You let him watch Lost??? :rolleyes:
Did he say that as it was on?.I mean before the show, no one i saw predicted that..did anyone on abc plot? Well sure, once she showed up with the boat, it fell together pretty easy...as soon as Jack said "Penny, we have to talk", it seemed to be coming.

(notice the boat was named "Searcher"? Maybe a nod to a famous John Wayne movie about an endless search for a lost loved one.)

Still think it was a stretch that she could be in England on Xmas eve, then get to Fiji, rent a boat, and motor to Lostia in however many days it was..3? She did say they had coord's from Desmond's phone call, but still...that's why i was sure she'd show up in a sea plane..oh well....
100%
Can someone just explain to me why the cavern under the orchid was frozen?

I read this in Doc Jensen's recap, so can't take credit for it...but i think it is correct:

the show told us why...in a different scene as it often does.

Micheal freezes the 'dead man's switch' so it won't go off by itself.

the "Ancient alien control dial" on the "negatively charged matter" was frozen for the same reason.
So it won't go off by itself.

Q? to me is what keeps it frozen? just how far down was it? a passage to Antarctica? Is hell really frozen over?

Deadshot

05-30-2008, 06:55 PM

toddintexas

05-30-2008, 08:15 PM

Halliwax said that the bunny would disappear for the amount of time to which they set it to time travel forward. The hundredth (or was it tenth?) of a second where the bunny would be gone might have been there to explain just this very phenomenon.

If the island moved even a 10th of a second in to the future. Dan, the helichoper would never catch up to it. It's in the excact same spot, just a little bit in the future.

Loved Bens bunny line......lol

Yep, I think y'all nailed it. They gave us the answer to how the Island would disappear within the episode, just like they did with why it was frozen, showing Michael freezing the battery on the Freighter. Fantastic writing (Of course, Darlton wrote it, I wouldn't have expected any less) and great catch!:thumbsup:

How they'll ever be able to get back to the Island if it's a fraction into the future is beyond me. Maybe when Locke left, he exposed it again.

Maalstrom Aran

05-30-2008, 08:40 PM

"It's not an Island."

Lost_in_CA

05-30-2008, 08:56 PM

The Island move both ways: SPACE AND TIME. If the island just moved in time, it would still be there unless it moved to a moment in time when the island was at a different place....
Which brings me to my idea that the island has been moving around the globe for centuries: like 1600, Atlantic Ocean, 1450 Indian Ocean, 2004 Pacific Ocean, etc....

If Ben rotated the wheel some 180 degrees, perhaps that set the date to the year 1200 when the Island was located near Antartica....

And by the way, the island is not an island. It is a vehicle.

Ah, you always know how to make sense of this show. :)

I was just a bit let down by the 'donkey wheel' b/c it didn't seem massive and important enough... I mean... it moved a whole ISLAND! I don't mind the fantastic nature of the whole thing... but I just wondered couldn't the wheel have had a few bells and whistles?

Or at least a real jack***. Oh wait, it did - Ben! ;)

"It's not an Island."

Yeah, I caught that the second time around. I said earlier on that it probably wasn't a real island. Now I feel even more sure after that line.

Sawyerluver

05-30-2008, 09:15 PM

Fierro

05-30-2008, 10:59 PM

I agree with those of you saying "It's not an Island". Not sure I know what it really is but that line really stood out to me.
If it's a "place where miracles happen",I don't believe its a "spaceship" as I've heard some claim either.And I don't think it has to do with "aliens".
100%
I'm no scientist so some of this is way over my head but could it be frozen behind/under the Orchid time-traveling chamber in order to "contain" the antimatter?
Apparently antimatter joined with matter is a means of "propelling" something into space fast as the speed of light. It looks like freezing it slows down the normal effect of matter coming in contact with anti-matter which is annilation!
Here's a link....maybe some of you can make better since of it than I.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9800E4DE113BF936A25752C1A9629582 60&sec=&spon=
Why would there be exotic matter on an island on the Earth?
Somebody put it there. I don't think it was a natural occurrence. And let's not forget that it seems to have been hidden in an underwater chamber full of ancient symbols. It is not Dharma who created this matter or whatever. It was already there when they came. So how could an ancient civilization have access to exotic matter and probable a stable wormhole?????
There is a very long history behind the Island...And I hope we can review it next season!!! PLEASE!
Right now I am sticking to this theory of the Island being an alien vessel (just for now, though;))
And to explain why the island looks like an island, I have two ideas:

1) Virtual Reality. We all know what I mean. Remember X-men 3?;)

2) The 'island' grew over the wreckage of this alien spaceship....It might have taken millions of years to evolve, but it did. The Island sits on top of an gigantic alien spaceship....

toddintexas

05-30-2008, 11:03 PM

Why would there be exotic matter on an island on the Earth?
Somebody put it there. I don't think it was a natural occurrence. And let's not forget that it seems to have been hidden in an underwater chamber full of ancient symbols. It is not Dharma who created this matter or whatever. It was already there when they came. So how could an ancient civilization have access to exotic matter and probable a stable wormhole?????
There is a very long history behind the Island...And I hope we can review it next season!!! PLEASE!
Right now I am sticking to this theory of the Island being an alien vessel (just for now, though;))
And to explain why the island looks like an island, I have two ideas:

1) Virtual Reality. We all know what I mean. Remember X-men 3?;)

2) The 'island' grew over the wreckage of this alien spaceship....It might have taken millions of years to evolve, but it did. The Island sits on top of an gigantic alien spaceship....

Oh man, not another Stephen King reference......The Tommy Knockers this time, without the alien conversion of course, hopefully!;) Not a bad idea though, I could accept that!

Fierro

05-30-2008, 11:18 PM

Oh man, not another Stephen King reference......The Tommy Knockers this time, without the alien conversion of course, hopefully!;) Not a bad idea though, I could accept that!
YEAH!!! The Tommyknockers!!! That's what I had been trying to remember!!!! Thank you man!

toddintexas

05-30-2008, 11:41 PM

YEAH!!! The Tommyknockers!!! That's what I had been trying to remember!!!! Thank you man!

LOL, no problem! I can understand why you forgot the name, it's one of the things I hope get pushed out of my memory soon......;)

LOSTmomof2

05-31-2008, 12:26 AM

Dude, if you think that this was "out of the realm of belivability" in the context of LOST, then you have been watching a different show for the past 4 years.EXACTLY! I mean from way back when we were asked to believe that the island is a giant magnet that could pull an airplane out of the sky????? THAT'S unbelievable. Yet we all swallowed that down whole and never questioned it. But you refuse to buy into moving it? That doesn't make any sense to me. Believable or not, I enjoy this show and I've invested too much time and energy in following along all these years to give up on it now. I'll accept whatever they want to dish out to me, because I'm in it for the long haul. ;)

lostorfound

05-31-2008, 12:44 AM

It wasn't moved physically, it was moved in time. I'm pretty sure we were supposed to understand that from everything leading up to that moment.Yes, it would seem that the disappearing bunny story was the lead in. But....

I keep hearing this, but it just doesn't make any sense. It still had to move physically, because it isn't there! Islands are (usually!) stationary objects. A person moving in time you can almost understand, but an island? Say it moved from 2004 to 2010 or even back to 1900, it still would be there (visible) in present time, unless after it moved backwards it was somehow completely destroyed..
then I saw this and got confused all over again.
Halliwax said that the bunny would disappear for the amount of time to which they set it to time travel forward. The hundredth (or was it tenth?) of a second where the bunny would be gone might have been there to explain just this very phenomenon.Again, it would seem so, but see above post.

Still think it was a stretch that she could be in England on Xmas eve, then get to Fiji, rent a boat, and motor to Lostia in however many days it was..3? She did say they had coord's from Desmond's phone call, but still...that's why i was sure she'd show up in a sea plane..oh well....
100% If you look at the timeline, Widmore's freighter got there pretty quickly as well.

Micheal freezes the 'dead man's switch' so it won't go off by itself.

the "Ancient alien control dial" on the "negatively charged matter" was frozen for the same reason.
So it won't go off by itself.

Q? to me is what keeps it frozen? just how far down was it? a passage to Antarctica? Is hell really frozen over?Of course (knocks self in head)!
RE: how far down is it....too many Antarctica references to ignore.

hugh_person

05-31-2008, 01:01 AM

RE: the coldness

Micheal freezes the 'dead man's switch' so it won't go off by itself.

the "Ancient alien control dial" on the "negatively charged matter" was frozen for the same reason.
So it won't go off by itself.

I think Doc Artz's explanation makes sense storytelling-wise, but the thing that immediately cam to mind during that scene to me (a computer/electronics geek) was a Peltier junction. Basically, it's a component that through a voltage difference causes heating on one side and cooling on the other. You can read about the effect in more depth in the links below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
http://www.apogeekits.com/peltier_device.htm
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1999-09/938380875.Ph.r.html

My sense was that whatever was glowing behind the wall was sucking energy from anything close by (thus the cold).

capitan_mission

05-31-2008, 01:36 AM

I have another view, in the other side is the Sahara desert

BillToons

05-31-2008, 01:48 AM

it's a dog gone thing indeed.

MagicActor1987

05-31-2008, 02:10 AM

I keep hearing this, but it just doesn't make any sense. It still had to move physically, because it isn't there! Islands are (usually!) stationary objects. A person moving in time you can almost understand, but an island? Say it moved from 2004 to 2010 or even back to 1900, it still would be there (visible) in present time, unless after it moved backwards it was somehow completely destroyed..

That may be how YOU see it, but it seems like the only logical conclusion to be drawn with the bunny experiment is that you're wrong. Apparently, moving in time would prevent the physical object being moved from existing during the intermediate times. If that is, indeed, what happened to the island, then no, it would not still be there from 2004 to whenever. It would continue its existence on its own relative time (meaning people wouldn't age), but it would still be gone until the time was reached.

Sawyerluver

05-31-2008, 11:06 AM

That may be how YOU see it, but it seems like the only logical conclusion to be drawn with the bunny experiment is that you're wrong. Apparently, moving in time would prevent the physical object being moved from existing during the intermediate times. If that is, indeed, what happened to the island, then no, it would not still be there from 2004 to whenever. It would continue its existence on its own relative time (meaning people wouldn't age), but it would still be gone until the time was reached.
Finally an explanation I get about how something can move only in time. It's still in the same place physically just can't be seen until a certain time....now i understand. Thanks!
But That doesn't explain the freighter Doc or does it?

wsprag

05-31-2008, 11:09 AM

I'm speechless as well... and not really in a good way. I have been a long time fan of the show but come on.... a ripple... where the island use to be.
100%
This show as always been somewhat in the realm of belivability but you cannot physically move an island... you just can't.

I don't think they physically moved it. They moved it in time...

JPolarBear

05-31-2008, 03:55 PM

Fierro

05-31-2008, 05:48 PM

I've always been a big supporter of "move in time only", even citing examples from the original movie Time Machine, that in concept is exactly like what MagicActor quoted....that once something moves in Time, it can no longer been seen in the present even though it has not moved in space...that movie shows that in easy to understand ways..

but after this episode, i'm leaning to the Island moved in both time and space....Halliwax tipped us off IMO, when he said the Orchid was for conducting experiments in both "Time and Space" and said something about being able to set the controls as desired....the 2nd tip was that we see Benry move forward in time 10 months, and also moved in space to the opposite (antipodal to be exact) side of the Earth, in Africa.

so where the Island went is a big guess. I think the vortex "ley line" theory people would say it followed the ley lines, and likely went to the next vortex location.

So as much as I'd hate to agree with a Fierro, I'd have to at least lean that way....the "incidents" are when the island has been moved before. I don't think Benry turned the wheel 180 Degrees though. a re-watch could figure out how much he did, i'll guess about 1/2 that, so 90 degrees.

180 degrees was just an example... The question is if that wheel can actually be set to move the island to different dates....

But I do have a couple of questions regarding the island traveling in time....

1) Did the island itself, as a container for the people on it, time travel to a different time (past or future)?

What I mean is that the world, outside the island's snowglobe would also be sharing the same time (date) that the island traveled to....
In this case, I see the island as another 'person' who time traveled...
Now if this is the case, and we are talking about physical time travel, there should be two islands in the same period of time: the original that existed in that time and the one that just time traveled. Right?
This fits the other Orchid Orientation video in which Halliwax panicked at the possibility of the two bunnies touching each other...

2) Did ONLY time ON the Island change?

This would mean that Time on the Island went back or forward, NOT for the rest of the world....

Basically this works with the theory that the Island is gonna go back to Dharma Times... Like all of a sudden, our beloved losties are gonna be walking along Dharma scientists who will be asking themselves who the heck those people are!!!!

Now, this could be very very cool. Think about it....
Who could the remaining losties on the island be taken for by Dharma?????

HOSTILES!!!!!

Did something like that happen before and that's the origin of the hostiles?????
I don't know if I am making any sense....:confused:

JPolarBear

05-31-2008, 06:41 PM

180 degrees was just an example... The question is if that wheel can actually be set to move the island to different dates....

But I do have a couple of questions regarding the island traveling in time....

1) Did the island itself, as a container for the people on it, time travel to a different time (past or future)?

What I mean is that the world, outside the island's snowglobe would also be sharing the same time (date) that the island traveled to....
In this case, I see the island as another 'person' who time traveled...
Now if this is the case, and we are talking about physical time travel, there should be two islands in the same period of time: the original that existed in that time and the one that just time traveled. Right?
This fits the other Orchid Orientation video in which Halliwax panicked at the possibility of the two bunnies touching each other...

2) Did ONLY time ON the Island change?

This would mean that Time on the Island went back or forward, NOT for the rest of the world....

Basically this works with the theory that the Island is gonna go back to Dharma Times... Like all of a sudden, our beloved losties are gonna be walking along Dharma scientists who will be asking themselves who the heck those people are!!!!

Now, this could be very very cool. Think about it....
Who could the remaining losties on the island be taken for by Dharma?????

HOSTILES!!!!!
Did something like that happen before and that's the origin of the hostiles?????
I don't know if I am making any sense....:confused:

Again to stay with the "Time Machine" example of how it would work (and Cuse is about my age, so i'm sure he loved it as a kid like i did) I'm not saying this is a sci.fact.

Once something (the Time Machine) moves in time, it is no longer in the present at all...so there is still just one object..Island, Locke, time machine, etc. The island moves up in time (aging) on it's own natural seeming calendar. They never meet another island like them..that may be a good argument for it moving in space as well???

so i'd say it's #1 on your picks..the island and all within it move to a new time, past or future. to those still on it or in the water near it..nothing would seem to have changed.
The losties, the others, etc. are all still the same. to see where they are, they would have to leave the island, or something come to them.

I want them to go back to the days when the Black Rock and Magnus Hanso arrives, and a still same-age Alpert is already there to greet them. And Locke is hailed as their leader Jacob. So, yes, IMO, the Dharma's would arrive to meet the Hostiles, which are the same Alpert gang as they've always been.

This could tie in to that movie's concept well....the time machine guy goes 'back to the future' with books and tools to try and fix the society and overthrow the Morlocks.

The 2 bunnies scene was cut out, so i'm not sure it matters anymore..it throws off everything else, and brings back in the "mirror people", "evil twins" theories..(oh the horror!:eek2:)

We know the old theory of "if dopplegangers touch each other, the world will blow up" in sci-fi. I'm sure that's what the Dr. was afraid of with the bunnies. Ties into the 'matter, anti-matter' theories doesn't it? The Germans have a word for it, i forget right now..do you know it?

Ok, to be funny now...could it be Mr. Peabody's "Way-Back" machine? Homer's "Time-Toaster"? Bill and Ted's phone booth? :biggrin: (oh wait, bill and ted DO meet themselves! AKKKK!)

Maalstrom Aran

06-03-2008, 03:47 AM

but after this episode, i'm leaning to the Island moved in both time and space....Halliwax tipped us off IMO, when he said the Orchid was for conducting experiments in both "Time and Space" and said something about being able to set the controls as desired....the 2nd tip was that we see Benry move forward in time 10 months, and also moved in space to the opposite (antipodal to be exact) side of the Earth, in Africa.

I have to argue for the movement through Time and Space as well. If your going to travel in Time forward you need to keep pace with the planet as it flies around the Sun. The device might simply use gravity to control it's movement in space but that would need the traveler to be constantly dragged along by the planets gravity AS they were moving forward in time.

Perhaps the antipodal situation is a miscalculation on the rotation of the earth while traveling. Knowing that I'd be content to land anywhere on the planet, instead of the middle of space where Earth was yesterday.

Yepper1

06-03-2008, 11:09 AM

I think the island moved in time, NOT in space. In the Orchid video, the bunny is moved only in time. I think most of you are expecting the bunny to appear in the exact same location on Earth when it reappears. But don't we have to take into account the earth's rotation and it's rotation around the Sun? I mean, if we stand still for a few hours, we would move in time, but not space. Our bodies, or consciousness or whatever, would have moved in relation to the Earth.

Diablo

06-03-2008, 11:38 AM

I mean, if we stand still for a few hours, we would move in time, but not space. Our bodies, or consciousness or whatever, would have moved in relation to the Earth.

So surely we would have moved in space?

rabidranger

06-03-2008, 11:57 AM

The Island move both ways: SPACE AND TIME. If the island just moved in time, it would still be there unless it moved to a moment in time when the island was at a different place....
Which brings me to my idea that the island has been moving around the globe for centuries: like 1600, Atlantic Ocean, 1450 Indian Ocean, 2004 Pacific Ocean, etc....

If Ben rotated the wheel some 180 degrees, perhaps that set the date to the year 1200 when the Island was located near Antartica....

And by the way, the island is not an island. It is a vehicle.

If that's true, then who else has gotten the boot? Ben indicated that moving the Island via the "wheel" means that the person doing so is banished and can never return. Has that happened before?

As for this thread in general, I agree that the "frozen donkey wheel" in and of itself is a ridiculous way to explain how an "island" could move, but I took that to only be the superficial mechanism tied into a more technologically advanced process. Also, the answer as to where the Island is is directly tied into The Orchid, and more specifically the Orchid orientation video. Halliwax explained precisely what The Orchid tapped into, and if you can buy that, then it would seem the Island went through a localized wormhole. The when is what's important.

Fierro

06-03-2008, 12:09 PM

If that's true, then who else has gotten the boot? Ben indicated that moving the Island via the "wheel" means that the person doing so is banished and can never return. Has that happened before?

As for this thread in general, I agree that the "frozen donkey wheel" in and of itself is a ridiculous way to explain how an "island" could move, but I took that to only be the superficial mechanism tied into a more technologically advanced process. Also, the answer as to where the Island is is directly tied into The Orchid, and more specifically the Orchid orientation video. Halliwax explained precisely what The Orchid tapped into, and if you can buy that, then it would seem the Island went through a localized wormhole. The when is what's important.
I think they 'can' return, eventually. The question is with what consequences?

Is dying the only way? Did Locke kill himself knowing that was the only way to be accepted on the island again? What about Ben, then?

Or another one, does this wheel turner loose his/her mind when he or she tries to enter the island's snowglobe again?
Then, could Danielle have been the one who turned the wheel before Ben? Did she sacrifice herself in order to hide the Island from Widmore many many years ago?
Did she leave Alex to Ben, voluntary before turning the wheel?????

Just a wild thought!;)

Cardielost

06-03-2008, 12:26 PM

rabidranger

06-03-2008, 12:30 PM

So, the much ridiculed donkey wheel is simply the device that opens the door, as designed by people at a fairly primitive level of technological achievement.

Cardie

This makes a lot of sense to me. Kind of like Cyclops' (from the X-Men) visor.

Fierro

06-03-2008, 12:46 PM

The island seems to me to lie atop some portal to another dimension, from which all sorts of energy and weird matter emanates. (I don't expect it to track with real science, anymore than I needed the Hellmouth being in Sunnydale to be scientifically probable to explain all the weird things that happened in Buffy.) Dharma built The Swan in order to harness the huge amounts of EM energy they found when they dug down. Similarly, some ancient civilization must have discovered the wormholey entrance under the Orchid and after it whipsawed the island around through time and space for a while, they figured out, with the help of whomever the island accumulated during its various time-travels, how to dam up the entrance and keep the island's temporal location stable. I don't think there is in fact any way to control where you or the island end up when the entrance is opened. So, the much ridiculed donkey wheel is simply the device that opens the door, as designed by people at a fairly primitive level of technological achievement.

Cardie
I agree. I'll just add that I believe that this wormhole is probably not a natural occurrence . I mean why there would be a pocket of Exotic Matter on an tropical Island????
That thing came from somewhere else...
I said it before and I'll say it again: There is a gigantic alien spaceship buried down deep the island. That is the SOURCE of the Electromagnetism and the Casimir Effect....
Jacob IS connected to the spaceship, as is Smokie....

An ancient civilization that discovered this 'island' thousands of years ago (probably egyptians) started to 'worship' whoever was on board that mothership....They were instructed to built all these 'sites' perhaps as a way to 'repair' the ship.....
That's where the donkey wheel came from...
Dharma just built their more modern devices on top of these ancient sites...

Pythagoras99

06-03-2008, 01:14 PM

Can someone just explain to me why the cavern under the orchid was frozen?

It was directly adjacent to the deposit of "negatively charged exotic matter." The "exotic matter" part of that means it has negative mass, and is a form of negative energy. Therefore, all its interactions with its environment absorbs energy (or releases negative heat). The temperature between two different objects will tend towards the average between their two temperatures, so the temperature between the exotic matter and the regular matter will tend towards absolute zero + the heat influx from the magma below, which in most places is very small. So it would tend towards somewhere probably close to absolute zero.

I agree with those of you saying "It's not an Island". Not sure I know what it really is but that line really stood out to me.
If it's a "place where miracles happen",I don't believe its a "spaceship" as I've heard some claim either.And I don't think it has to do with "aliens".
If you weren't goofing off in Mrs. Goodspeed's science class, you would know that it is a volcanic island! ;) I think that the exotic matter deposits are natural.

I'm no scientist so some of this is way over my head but could it be frozen behind/under the Orchid time-traveling chamber in order to "contain" the antimatter?
Apparently antimatter joined with matter is a means of "propelling" something into space fast as the speed of light. It looks like freezing it slows down the normal effect of matter coming in contact with anti-matter which is annilation!You're (understandably) confusing two entirely different concepts. 1) antimatter, which definitely exists IRL, and which is annihilated when it contacts regular matter, because all the charges of its corresponding particles are opposite of regular matter. That's not what's under the island. 2) exotic matter, aka negative matter, (the negative matter under the island is also negatively charged, but not "oppositely charged" like anti-matter), which is matter with a negative mass. Negative matter does not annihilate in contact with regular matter. Unlike antimatter, negative matter has never actually been observed, remains completely theoretical (except on the island of course). An "negative brick" and a normal brick duct-taped together, would indeed by a propulsion system, and would accelerate indefinitely, since the negative brick would be gravitationally attracted to the normal brick, and the normal brick would be gravitationally repelled by the negative brick! And so they would both accelerate along the same line of travel. This doesn't violate the laws of conservation of energy or momentum, because the negative brick, having negative mass, is accumulating a negative energy and negative momentum equal to the regular brick's positive energy and momentum, so the net energy and momentum of the system remains zero!

The negative matter being negatively charged, I think there is probably something going on exactly along those lines, but on the level of electrons, that caused the runaway chain reaction of building electromagnetism. In fact, it really makes that whole thing rather plausible, where it didn't seem so before.

Why would there be exotic matter on an island on the Earth?
Somebody put it there. I don't think it was a natural occurrence. And let's not forget that it seems to have been hidden in an underwater chamber full of ancient symbols. It is not Dharma who created this matter or whatever. It was already there when they came. So how could an ancient civilization have access to exotic matter and probable a stable wormhole?????
....The 'island' grew over the wreckage of this alien spaceship....It might have taken millions of years to evolve, but it did. The Island sits on top of an gigantic alien spaceship....
Whether or not one is an alien, the only probable way to access exotic matter is to come across it naturally. So I'm quite sure it is a natural deposit that got there the same was as all other natural deposits. Remember Isaac of Urulu's reference to the "special places on the earth" specialness being "maybe geological." I knew that was important the moment I heard it. We know from our science lesson that the island's geology is volcanic, which makes it seem quite unlikely that it's a bunch of dirt accumulated on top of a space ship. Plus, in the deposit was VERY deep down, and there's got to be enough negative mass down there to cause a space-time bubble that's over 80 miles across, which is definitely seems like we're talking about a geological magnitude.

It raises fantastic questions about how human technology would have evolved if we had discovered exotic matter deposits at the same time we found other mineral deposits. Just as the technology the ancients developed based on the properties of copper would be unfathomable to us if we weren't already familiar with them and other metals, I think things like smoke monster would be just the tip of the technological iceberg of the ancient technologies that would proceed from the ancient discovery of exotic matter.

Pythagoras99

06-03-2008, 01:15 PM

I'm speechless as well... and not really in a good way. I have been a long time fan of the show but come on.... a ripple... where the island use to be.
Come on, the ripple was beautiful! I'm considering making it into an avitar!
This show as always been somewhat in the realm of belivability but you cannot physically move an island... you just can't.That's what Jack thought.;) ...even after he saw it happen! The island exists in a space-time bubble created by the negative matter below it. Shift the negative matter, you shift the space-time bubble and all the space-time curvature around it, the island is now elsewhere in relation to everything else. Simple -- if you have the required materials!

If the island moved even a 10th of a second in to the future. Dan, the helichoper would never catch up to it. It's in the excact same spot, just a little bit in the future.

Loved Bens bunny line......lol

Loved that line too! Their whole interaction was making me LOL. Especially when Candle-man said "make absolutely certain never to place any metal object in the chamber," and John looks, around the TV at Ben dragging the big metal trash can into the chamber, and points and opens his mouth, and then just doesn't say anything and goes back to watching... and then when he finally says, "You do realize he said specifically not to put anything metal in there?" LOL :biggrin:

But if the island moved a 10th of a second into the future, the helicopter would catch up to it in a 10th of a second. You don't erase yourself from the past as you move into the future. An island or a bunny is a continuously solid 4-dimensional object, stretching in time from its creation to its destruction. (In the case of time-travel, it remains inherently continuous, but from certainly perspectives, it would appear to have have a 10th of a second discontinuity.)

I can take in polar bears, weird experiments, a computer where you push a button ever 108 minutes, even Desmond's time traveling events but not this the whole freaking island is go... it's moved that is truely above and beyond. Now don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan... I have always been and always will be... but this you have to admit was a little over the top even within the context of Lost. Heck even the smoke monster seems logical compared to moving a body of land.

That's the thing -- the smoke monster never seemed believable until this ep. But with the implications of the negatively charged negative matter (which I've been theorizing for a while here was what was making all this stuff work), I'm actually starting to think of ways that smokie could actually operate as a technological device.

EXACTLY! I mean from way back when we were asked to believe that the island is a giant magnet that could pull an airplane out of the sky????? THAT'S unbelievable. Yet we all swallowed that down whole and never questioned it. But you refuse to buy into moving it? That doesn't make any sense to me. Believable or not, I enjoy this show and I've invested too much time and energy in following along all these years to give up on it now. I'll accept whatever they want to dish out to me, because I'm in it for the long haul. ;)

That kind of magnetism, and an unstoppable electromagnetic chain reaction, are other things that required a suspension of disbelief. However, with the presence of negatively charged negative matter, that no longer does to me. It actually makes perfect sense. I'm sure we'll get a good explanation from Daniel in the future, but all this stuff works in real science. The only reason it doesn't exist in real technology is because we don't have, and have never seen, negative matter. (again, don't confuse with antimatter)

Finally an explanation I get about how something can move only in time. It's still in the same place physically just can't be seen until a certain time....now i understand. Thanks! But That doesn't explain the freighter Doc or does it?

I don't think that explanation works very well at all. If the island disappears from out of the physical space it occupied, into the future, it would cause a massive volcanic explosion. No "discontinuous" space or time travel happened. The space-time bubble that surrounds the island (which itself explains the doc), got shifted in such a manner that the space immediately adjacent to the outside of that bubble is now a completely different place, and no longer the place where the helicopter was. It's possibly shifted differently in regards to time as well, but either way, that's not why it disappeared. From the perspective of the island, the spatial geometry of larger part of the pacific ocean is highly distorted. Shifting/compressing or whatever was done to the negative matter, changed the distortion, so that now the part of the pacific ocean that is distorted into their immediate vicinity is completely different.

BTW I don't think that anyone need have quantum physics explained to them in order to feel they have a grasp on the show.

I agree. General Relativity should be sufficient. ;) And, as luck would have it, that's just what Daniel was studying!

toddintexas

06-03-2008, 01:21 PM

I agree. I'll just add that I believe that this wormhole is probably not a natural occurrence . I mean why there would be a pocket of Exotic Matter on an tropical Island????
That thing came from somewhere else...
I said it before and I'll say it again: There is a gigantic alien spaceship buried down deep the island. That is the SOURCE of the Electromagnetism and the Casimir Effect....
Jacob IS connected to the spaceship, as is Smokie....

An ancient civilization that discovered this 'island' thousands of years ago (probably egyptians) started to 'worship' whoever was on board that mothership....They were instructed to built all these 'sites' perhaps as a way to 'repair' the ship.....
That's where the donkey wheel came from...
Dharma just built their more modern devices on top of these ancient sites...

Yeah Fierro, I'm definitely coming around to this idea. It would seem to tie everything in, especially after S4 when we saw the "ancient" door that Ben opened to release Smokie and all the hieroglyphics, and the hieroglyphics on the post with the lamp in the frozen donkey wheel room. Those hieroglyphics do look similar to Egyptian hieroglyphics, and it has been speculated that the Egyptians built the Pyramids and the Sphinx with alien assistance. Alien technology would definitely explain all the "unexplainable" things, like Smokie for sure.

The Tommyknockers it is then.;)

lostorfound

06-03-2008, 01:31 PM

I agree. General Relativity should be sufficient. ;) And, as luck would have it, that's just what Daniel was studying!
I always enjoy your posts (even though I struggle with science in general).

At this point, I think the general viewer needs to suffice with Hallowax's comment about the bunny "will seem to disappear" while traveling as an explanation for the disappearance of the Island.

We know "nouns" can travel in space via the Orchid. That was apparent with Ben winding up in Tunisia.

We know that Ben either traveled in time forward a few months (catching up to the point of Nadia's death) or the Island traveled forward before it spit Ben out in Tunisia. Maybe the Island traveled even further in time (my personal hope to catch up to 2007) and spit Ben out along the way.

Time will tell. Eight long months at least!!!

Fierro

06-03-2008, 01:39 PM

Yeah Fierro, I'm definitely coming around to this idea. It would seem to tie everything in, especially after S4 when we saw the "ancient" door that Ben opened to release Smokie and all the hieroglyphics, and the hieroglyphics on the post with the lamp in the frozen donkey wheel room. Those hieroglyphics do look similar to Egyptian hieroglyphics, and it has been speculated that the Egyptians built the Pyramids and the Sphinx with alien assistance. Alien technology would definitely explain all the "unexplainable" things, like Smokie for sure.

The Tommyknockers it is then.;)
I don't remember if I posted on the thread or a different one, but google Anunnaki...;)
100%
I always enjoy your posts (even though I struggle with science in general).

At this point, I think the general viewer needs to suffice with Hallowax's comment about the bunny "will seem to disappear" while traveling as an explanation for the disappearance of the Island.

We know "nouns" can travel in space via the Orchid. That was apparent with Ben winding up in Tunisia.

We know that Ben either traveled in time forward a few months (catching up to the point of Nadia's death) or the Island traveled forward before it spit Ben out in Tunisia. Maybe the Island traveled even further in time (my personal hope to catch up to 2007) and spit Ben out along the way.

Time will tell. Eight long months at least!!!
Why not sent the wheel turner forward in time while sending the island itself in the opposite direction, that is backwards in time????

That would help explain Ben's suggestion that the one who moves the island can't come back....They are in different times!

Anyways, as far as Halliwax's eplanation that the bunny would get shifted forward in time, let's not forget that was the machine that Dharma built using ancient technology...
Dharma may have modified or altered the original purpose of the wheel, which was to teleport the island, to attempt time travel to the future....
Besides, I believe that the way the island moves through time is by using Closed Timelike Curves. And from what I remember they are supposed to allow time travel to the past not the future?