I can't stop thinking about this haunting line.

What happened?

War? Disease? Famine? Climate Change? High Gas Prices?

Did something happen because of the time/space where the island ended up?

Or did they turn on Locke, or a conflict develop between Locke and Sawyer?

What could it be?

Does Claire not want her baby back because of the bad things? or because she's bad now?

I can't stop thinking about this haunting line.

What happened?

War? Disease? Famine? Climate Change? High Gas Prices?

Did something happen because of the time/space where the island ended up?

Or did they turn on Locke, or a conflict develop between Locke and Sawyer?

What could it be?

Does Claire not want her baby back because of the bad things? or because she's bad now?


Well...I was leaning towards higher gas prices, but then I remembered Jack said there was no fuel on the island...:biggrin:

I think, maybe, something health-wise happened that Jack could've prevented. Or maybe there was an uprising against John. Who knows? Killing me...already waiting for season 5.

It was sooooo the gas prices.

I've wondered if Keamy came back to life and set up a dictatorship of some kind. If Mikhail can do it, Keamy can dang sure do it!

I wonder if Widmore was able to access the island and caused problems with the island's special qualities... maybe putting the islanders' lives further at risk?

I really have no clue.

Richard Alpert and crew went crazy on Locke?? He's still upset that Locke didn't pick the right item years ago ...

Yeah, I have no idea what happens either. I just think the Island needs Locke AND Jack working together, the man of science needs the man of faith and vice versa. The Island will only be at peace when those 2 work together.

Maybe if Locke had just told Jack about his paralysis. It appeared that Jack did actually listen to Locke at the end......

probably something that had to do w/jack and co.... maybe ppl got sick, im not sure.

but it was enough to get john to both LEAVE the island and take time to visit everyone.... I mean this man never wanted to leave... so it had to be something bad. Maybe the island moved to an area that wasnt good (weatherwise?)? Or maybe a bunch got the sickness from the move and became "hostiles"?

Weird tho... Ben did the machine thing, but next time we see him its 2005 in tunisia... did the island get sent to a bad time? past? future? Hmm....

That comment was made to set up next season, but I love that it was said. When Claire showed up and said not to come back, I was like what the?? But then hearing that comment about some bad things happening it all made sense. Claire wants to protect Aaron.

I still think there are two opposing Jacob forces on the island. Let me quote another post of mine:

"I think there are two Jacob-like powers on the island. One, which is now being represented by Christian Shepard, seems to have kept Michael alive long enough to ensure that the Oceanic Six leave the island, given Locke instructions that moved the island away just as the Six were returning, and sent Claire to Kate to tell her NOT to bring Aaron to the island.

The other, which is presumably Jacob, wants the Six to stay on the island, gave Jack medical issues to try and keep him there.

The scene from the first episode of the season, where there are TWO entities in Jacob's cabin, points to maybe this was the point where Jacob stopped being in as much control and "Christian Shepard" took over."

With the Six leaving the island, one of the island forces got what it wanted (presumably, the 'dark side'). As a result, Locke, Jacob, and their followers were in for a bad time.

That comment was made to set up next season, but I love that it was said. When Claire showed up and said not to come back, I was like what the?? But then hearing that comment about some bad things happening it all made sense. Claire wants to protect Aaron.

I don't think that was Claire. It was a dream/vision after all. I think that was Jacob. He is now free and can take his visions OFF the island. The reason why he doesn't want Aaron back will be probably because Jacob is not a very good 'dude'..;)

Aaron could be the 'savior'....Aaron alone or, taking the story a little bit further.... Aaron and Ji Yeon's child....;)

He or she will be the very first conceived and born on the island baby in a very long time.
That is why Jacob might have been preventing women from having healthy pregnancies....He doesn't want 'competition'...

I definitely think there is a war brewing between Locke's Others and the LeftBehinds.

I still think there are two opposing Jacob forces on the island. Let me quote another post of mine:

"I think there are two Jacob-like powers on the island. One, which is now being represented by Christian Shepard, seems to have kept Michael alive long enough to ensure that the Oceanic Six leave the island, given Locke instructions that moved the island away just as the Six were returning, and sent Claire to Kate to tell her NOT to bring Aaron to the island.

The other, which is presumably Jacob, wants the Six to stay on the island, gave Jack medical issues to try and keep him there.

The scene from the first episode of the season, where there are TWO entities in Jacob's cabin, points to maybe this was the point where Jacob stopped being in as much control and "Christian Shepard" took over."

With the Six leaving the island, one of the island forces got what it wanted (presumably, the 'dark side'). As a result, Locke, Jacob, and their followers were in for a bad time.


I like this theory.
100%
The reason why he doesn't want Aaron back will be probably because Jacob is not a very good 'dude'..;)

Aaron could be the 'savior'....Aaron alone or, taking the story a little bit further.... Aaron and Ji Yeon's child....;)

He or she will be the very first conceived and born on the island baby in a very long time.
That is why Jacob might have been preventing women from having healthy pregnancies....He doesn't want 'competition'...


Oh, this makes perfect sense!

I think the Seafaring Turnip is the closest thus far, if not spot on., Arrgh, he says in his best pirate imitation.

Christian/Creepy Ghost Claire...I can't shake the feeling that they are not the "good" guys. Which then would mean, the island should not have been moved, right?

I like Seafaring Turnip's theory also. It makes sense that there are good and bad spiritual influences at play here. I just hadn't considered that Jacob embodies them both. But there are certainly conflicting things happening. The other possibility is that whoever's side Matthew Abbadon is on (and that has been deliberately unclear so far) may be one of the two sides we aren't clear on yet.

I'm beginning to think along these lines too. What bad thing could have happened? Keamy and his team are dead (unless Keamy pulls a Mikhail, which would be super lame). The Island has moved and presumably no one knows where it is now. The conflict between the Losties and the Others would seem largely resolved. So what could it be? The island itself.

I'm beginning to think there are two different entities at work here and we've seen manipulation of both at some point. And one of them turns out to be very very bad.

Something that just came to me. The Biblical Jacob, not only being the father to the twelve tribes of Israel, also had a brother named Esau. Jacob deceived their father, Isaac, and cheated Esau out of his birthright. So...maybe there's an Esau?

I'm confused on what could happen. Keamy is dead. The boat is blown up. Locke is the leader of the others. Sawyer, Juliet, Charlotte and Miles are around, the island moved. What is the threat now?

An outbreak of spinal tumors.

Maybe nothing bad is happening at all. Maybe he just wants everyone to come back to the island. If everyone is back on the island, they can't let any island secrets slip to anyone on the outside. This includes John's body because the bad people off-island (like Abaddon?) might be able to use the body to their advantage somehow if they ever figured out that it was not actually a man named Jeremy Bentham.

I don't think that was Claire. It was a dream/vision after all. I think that was Jacob. He is now free and can take his visions OFF the island. The reason why he doesn't want Aaron back will be probably because Jacob is not a very good 'dude'..;)

Aaron could be the 'savior'....Aaron alone or, taking the story a little bit further.... Aaron and Ji Yeon's child....;)

He or she will be the very first conceived and born on the island baby in a very long time.
That is why Jacob might have been preventing women from having healthy pregnancies....He doesn't want 'competition'...

Ji Yeon is the baby, she doesn't have a child. Also, she wasn't born on the island. There was no problem conceiving on island, just with conceiving on island and then giving birth.

I was thinking, why would Jack care. Most of the people were evacuated to the freighter and blown up. So what if something bad happened on the island. Unless Jack believes that the island is still controlling him, why would he go back or care.

Maybe nothing bad is happening at all. Maybe he just wants everyone to come back to the island. If everyone is back on the island, they can't let any island secrets slip to anyone on the outside. This includes John's body because the bad people off-island (like Abaddon?) might be able to use the body to their advantage somehow if they ever figured out that it was not actually a man named Jeremy Bentham.


OMG this makes sense, too!

What if the "sickness" returns?? The one first brought up by Rousseau..

Maybe when the island was moved some nasty natural disaters happened.

1. Tseunami
2. Hurricanes
3. Volcano erruption

Just a bunch of natural disasters, I would think that if an island was moved, it would definitely react negitively to it.....no?

I can see them going back and the island looking like Hell on earth and only a few people alive.

We do know that Sawyer and Juliet are alive on the island.

Very bad things happen....

Locke got voted off the island.

Very bad things happen....

Locke got voted off the island.



*swoosh* (the extinguishing of his torch)

Wonder what the others would say about their votes during the credits.

Ji Yeon is the baby, she doesn't have a child. Also, she wasn't born on the island. There was no problem conceiving on island, just with conceiving on island and then giving birth.
In a few words: Jacob is the 'antichrist'. Aaron and Ji Yeon will come back to the Island, raised there, have a child who will become "Christ', the first baby conceived and born on the island. He or She will defeat Jacob. Better?

I was thinking, why would Jack care. Most of the people were evacuated to the freighter and blown up. So what if something bad happened on the island. Unless Jack believes that the island is still controlling him, why would he go back or care.
I think it has more to do with what John was telling him in the greenhouse than any rational reason -- the knowledge of the island, including the fact that he's supposed to be there, is inside him eating away at him from the inside. He ultimately looses control of his his life, and can no longer deny it. So when Locke comes to him again with some answers, he 's desperate enough to listens this time.
100%
What if the "sickness" returns?? The one first brought up by Rousseau..

This seems like a good guess to me. Whatever it is, it's going to be a complicated enough story that it takes a season to tell (or half a season, as I'm assuming they'll be spending half the time telling that story, and half the time telling the story of the O6 getting back), so we're not going to guess it. I think in general it will be related to the epic struggle in the spiritual realm between the various forces for control, and the effect that has on the people on the island, either in terms of "sickness" or insanity... who knows.

Perhaps Dharma has reinhabited the island. I'm basing this on the Octagon Global Recruiting commercial last night. Maybe they found the island and restarted their experiments. Now, Locke has to return to the island dead so he can take Christian's place and get rid of them.

In a few words: Jacob is the 'antichrist'. Aaron and Ji Yeon will come back to the Island, raised there, have a child who will become "Christ', the first baby conceived and born on the island. He or She will defeat Jacob. Better?

I'm going to go with something along those lines.

There is a reason Jacob was trapped with that circle of salt (They say it may be helping to keep jacob trapped on the commentary on the Season 3 DVD). I'm thinking he might not be such a nice person. Now the Island has moved Jacobs is "free" essentially. Maybe Jacobs orders to Ben etc his pleas for help to locke were meant to set this chain of events in motion so he could be freed.

It also reminds me of an old twlight zone episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Howling_Man

Synopsis

The story is told in a flashback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashback_%28literary_technique%29) by an American called David Ellington. While on a walking trip through post-World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I) Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe), Ellington becomes lost, is drenched by rain and seeks shelter in a nearby castle. He is told to leave immediately, but he collapses, shivering.
Upon waking inside the castle, Ellington hears a wolf-like howl and goes to investigate. In the bowels of the castle he finds a bedraggled, but apparently cultured and intelligent man in a cell. The man claims to be a prisoner of an insane religious order, locked up because he kissed his sweetheart.
Ellington is seen talking to the prisoner, and is taken to a meeting with the leader of the order, Brother Jerome, who explains that the prisoner is not a man, but rather the devil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan) himself. He has been locked up in the room using the "Staff of Truth" to bar the door since shortly after World War I. He came to the village to corrupt it, but Jerome recognized him for what he was and imprisoned him. His actions have given the world five years of relative peace. Ellington becomes convinced that Jerome is insane. Fearing for his safety, he pretends to believe the incredible story. Jerome is not fooled however, and assigns another brother to watch him.
Ellington waits until his guard falls asleep and creeps down to the cell. Seeing that the staff which held the door shut was easily within reach of the imprisoned man, Ellington briefly wondered why he did not remove it himself. At the man's urging, he removes the staff barring the cell door and releases the prisoner. When the prisoner exits the cell, he pins Ellington to the floor and begins to change, taking on the appearance of the devil with each step before departing the castle in a plume of smoke.
Jerome finds the collapsed Ellington and sadly explains that the inability to recognize the devil has always been Man's great weakness.
The flashback ends. Ellington explains to the hotel maid that he has spent the time since then hunting for the devil to atone for his mistake, through World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II), the Korean War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War), and the development of nuclear weapons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon). He finally succeeded; he has him locked in a room and intends to return him to the castle and Brother Jerome's keeping. He warns the skeptical housekeeper not to remove the staff holding the door closed under any circumstances while he goes to make his final preparations.
After Ellington leaves, the curious woman, disbelieving his story, removes the Staff of Truth barring the door.


There's quite a few similarities there. There's even a flashback structure involved. We also have a man trying to return to the scene of his mistake to atone for it (Ala Jack).

Right now going along these lines I would also say that maybe Abaddon is an agent of Jacob. He's there to make sure the events that have occured to allow the island to move come to pass. Hence assembling the freighter team, planting the seed for the walkabout in Lockes head etc.

Well, maybe the spacetime shifting made Smokey go Berserk on the island ?

The most simple solution: they were never meant to leave. Fate frowned upon them, threw complications into their lives and those around them.

I'm going to go with something along those lines.

There is a reason Jacob was trapped with that circle of salt (They say it may be helping to keep jacob trapped on the commentary on the Season 3 DVD). I'm thinking he might not be such a nice person. Now the Island has moved Jacobs is "free" essentially. Maybe Jacobs orders to Ben etc his pleas for help to locke were meant to set this chain of events in motion so he could be freed.

It also reminds me of an old twlight zone episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Howling_Man

Synopsis




There's quite a few similarities there. There's even a flashback structure involved. We also have a man trying to return to the scene of his mistake to atone for it (Ala Jack).

Right now going along these lines I would also say that maybe Abaddon is an agent of Jacob. He's there to make sure the events that have occured to allow the island to move come to pass. Hence assembling the freighter team, planting the seed for the walkabout in Lockes head etc.

so, I like the comparison of this episode of the Twilight Zone with the possible story line.

I think the idea of Abaddon working for Jacob could be a possibility. That would mean that Jacob and Widmore are working together. Since we know Abbaddon pulled the boat crew together. In a way it makes sense because Widmore wants to get to the island, his island, and maybe Jacob wants him to come back to the island.

Abaddon is such a wild card in the whole thing. His motivations seem so difficult to pin down.

I'm going to go with something along those lines.

There is a reason Jacob was trapped with that circle of salt (They say it may be helping to keep jacob trapped on the commentary on the Season 3 DVD). I'm thinking he might not be such a nice person. Now the Island has moved Jacobs is "free" essentially. Maybe Jacobs orders to Ben etc his pleas for help to locke were meant to set this chain of events in motion so he could be freed.

It also reminds me of an old twlight zone episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Howling_Man

Synopsis




There's quite a few similarities there. There's even a flashback structure involved. We also have a man trying to return to the scene of his mistake to atone for it (Ala Jack).

Right now going along these lines I would also say that maybe Abaddon is an agent of Jacob. He's there to make sure the events that have occured to allow the island to move come to pass. Hence assembling the freighter team, planting the seed for the walkabout in Lockes head etc.


Nice synopsis! I also believe that Jacob was freed from his ghostly state as a consequence of moving the Island. Who knows what stuff he is capable of doing once he is not trapped in his cabin!!!!!
If he is indeed some kind of evil powerful creature, that would explain why Locke said that very bad things happened after they left. But I don't get why he would blame it on Jack? I understand that the reason why they had to move the island was basically because Jack let Widmore's people know about the location of the island though....

I have a feeling that the whole show is gonna take a much more science fiction, fantasy direction in the last two seasons.
Many people said, back in the days of S1, that the island could move, but nobody agree...
Just look what happened now!!!!!

In one or another way, every single theory that at some point has been discarded by TPTB have been incorporated into the show itself.....

So don't be surprise if the origin of this 'ancient' civilization that I am sure built all these powerful structures that Dharma built their stations upon, is ALIEN.

I mean they might have been given technology by, what they saw at the moment, like gods....

This theory has been very popular in the 'real world' when it comes to explain how the pyramids, crystal skulls, stonehenge, nazca lines, etc etc, were created....
Let's blame it all on the 'aliens'....

I think it's a case of "genie out of the bottle" so to speak.

Everyone seems to forget the master manipulater - Ben. Ben seems to be setting Locke up. "I'm sure you'll do a better job than I did." And Locke is easily manipulated. I think Ben must still be charge of the others. He certainly made the decision on wether Kate and Sayid could leave. He also may have killed Nadia (at the very least he used her death.) I think he also is using Sayid to provoke Widmore and in turn scare the Losties back to the island.
There are four threats to the Losties right now.
1. Sun may be looking to get Ben or she might be after Widmore. I doubt it will be easy to get her to go back unless they can prove to her Jin is alive there.
2. Widmore. He wants the island back or to go back to the island. Did he move it at some point and now isn't allowed back? I think Widmore will try to recruit the Losties.
3. The left behinds. I imagine Juliette, Sawyer, Rose and Bernard aren't going to be especially happy with the new arrangements on the island. Most of them dislike Locke. I also doubt that Locke could negoitate with them if something happens.
4. Ben. Ben is still playing a game. He still wants to keep Widmore from finding the island. Why? If he can't go back why? Who is left there for him? Is it because he and Widmore are each other's constant and Ben knows Widmore will die if he goes to the island? I think Ben is still the true enemy. Locke is a puppet.

I like the theory about two different 'Jacobs' on the island. Locke told Walt early on that it was a struggle between Black and White. Who's the white? And did Ben do something to Jacob after Jacob tried to get help from Locke?

That the "bad things" happening on the Island are not due to Widmore, or perhaps any other external 'human' sources. Widmore, if his conversation with Sun is anything to go by, has been reduced to a continuing search for the Island's new location, and thus I think its a safe bet that he can no longer have any interferring influence on the affairs of the Island.


The question then becomes, with whom will the blame for these bad things lie? With Jack, the one Locke would appear to blame? With Locke, who like Jeremy Bentham himself pursued a beneficial end even if it was achieved in what we may perceieve to be a 'bad' or 'immoral' way? Is it out of bitterness at perhaps being physically ejected or rejected from or by the Island that he turned his blame upon Jack. Is it due to the absence of Ben, who for all his faults seemed to at least hold the place together? Is it due to a breaking of the fates, or the interferenc of more sinister aspects to the Island unnatural innhabitants?



questions questions questions.

well after reading about J. Bentham maybe Locke isn't dead and it's all a ruse...

however if that wasn't the case, Locke wasn't infact the saviour. I have a feeling Christian is a real bad dude....

I tried a search but didn't find a thread devoted to what in my mind is THE vexing question Jack mentions at the very end of this season. Of course we've heard it before this finale as well.

What do you think are the VERY BAD things that happen? This seems to be a huge question.

I mean one very bad thing is people die who are left on the island. But frankly this doesn't seem to meet the very bad things threshold. Now before you think me callous... lots of people have died in this show so far. None of their deaths have been characterized as "very bad things". So what could this ominous happening be?

Again if this has been discussed please point me in the proper direction. :)

(note: i kind of figured: Keamy and his group were the "very bad thing"... but apparently not)

Sickness, starvation, the Plagues of Egypt.

what about all that stuff about the numbers and preventing the end of the world? hmm..

OMG it just dawned on me... Smokie... No BEN no way to control smokie... i think... not sure. another thing could be that Jack was meant to be the new leader of the island but was too faithless (christian sheppard, claire... all in the family)... and if Claire was calm and smiling when locke came to the cabin then it is not obvious what the bad things that will happen are. She makes it seem like life is beautiful and all is happy and well in Hallowax Land. But i'm guessing Jack was an integral part to the islands purpose. Or maybe its all just a coincidence and the island just picks random corpses and revives them in order to kill. I have no idea but maybe i'm on to something when it comes to smokie.... OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH good God! remember Richard saying that Locke wasnt special at all when Locke was a kid cause he wsnt able to select all three items from the table. I think something happens there where richard gets really ticked off and goes haywire

It's tough to say. I'd go with the return of "the sickness". People start going insane and murdering one another.

Ugh, I'm in denial about this. I SO don't want horrible things to happen to our Losties!

The Island has the ability to heal the sick such as Rose. It would stand to reason that this "healing" quality comes from the energy that the island produces. It that is correct then it would also stand to reason that a tremendous outflow of energy(such as transporting an entire island)would disrupt at least for a time that ability. People like Rose would be afflicted by their pre-existing ailments, others would come down with typical tropical illnesses that had previously been absent. Maybe we will learn that Locke lost his ability to walk and his trip off the island is to set things back the way they were.

The Island has the ability to heal the sick such as Rose. It would stand to reason that this "healing" quality comes from the energy that the island produces. It that is correct then it would also stand to reason that a tremendous outflow of energy(such as transporting an entire island)would disrupt at least for a time that ability. People like Rose would be afflicted by their pre-existing ailments, others would come down with typical tropical illnesses that had previously been absent. Maybe we will learn that Locke lost his ability to walk and his trip off the island is to set things back the way they were.I could see that as part of it, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as "very bad" was intended to sound (at least to me).

anybody read my last post? i wanna know what you guys think

I've been thinking about this one too. My guess is the new leader of the losties is gonna be Sawyer and, while he has been heroic as of late, he is still a con man and a killer. I think, with Sawyer as their leader, the new crew of losties and freighter people turn into the "bad guys" and terrible conflicts between Locke's others and Sawyer's losties ensue. This actually makes great sense when we recognize that every group/person has taken their turn as a "bad guy" with the exception of the losties. Perhaps their turn is on the horizon for season five?

Don't know at what point in time this stuff occurs though, because we aren't yet aware as to whether the island transported into the future or the past.

I sure hope it's the past 'cause I'd love to see the Dharma Initiative on a weekly basis.

Maybe the very bad thing happening is the unleashing of a greater force that could possibly affect the whole world outside the island. Maybe the people on the island are now fighting this occult force to prevent the end of the world or something else occuring!!

I don't think that the very bad things should be connected to people becoming bad and killing each other (we already lost far too many people over the seasons). Most likely it could be related to the island itself, something physical or geological, maybe due to the time travel. Maybe they all have to go back to the island so that they can travel back to before the crash happened?

I have several thoughts (none of which make sense to me) .. first is that there already has been very bad things happening.. but the O6 were there and were usually part of the solution/rescue/mission and the island misses their participation.. :redface: (as you can tell I have no actual reason as yet to explain this)

Building on the last thought -- the island does in fact miss them and in an effort to make them return is causing bery vad, very bad things to happen. I also think it's not interpersonal issues between the Others and the Losties - I think they can all manage to get along.. but the island... I think it's an immature emotional mound of dirt and wants what it wants and therefore is playing mean to the poor humans.

Most likely some kind of split or fued between the Losties and/or John's Others.

But.... the O6 have been off the island for 3 years, according to Kate. If the people on the island have split into factions and are fighting and killing each other, there wouldn't be all that many left, would there, after 3 years? And if the O6 went back, then what? The fighting would stop and what? All the dead will rise again? Doesn't seem likely.

I think it has something to do with the island itself. With the electromagnetic force it possesses. Maybe it's.... ah.... well....hmm.

How long 'till January 2009?!?!? :rolleyes: ;) :confused:

Good thread!

I've read the posts, but I don't know if any of them hit the spot.

If the Losties and the Others are feuding, I don't think the Losties stand a chance anymore since many of their warriors are gone/dead. However, I don't think they'll be feuding since Locke is now with the Others, and the Others were helped by Kate/Sayid forming a bond of sorts.

I think most of the mercenaries are dead, but the one guy only got tasered, so he can fight another day. But I don't think he will be significant in S5.

We simply don't have enough info right now to give us clues as to what 'very bad things' really means.

S5 is going to be good!

My first (& quite obvious) instinct is that the Island/Jacob stops healing people & slowly the electro-magnetism or something else causes cancer & other fatal diseases in the inhabitants. Would the EM field on & around the island change significantly because of the island moving in time & space?

Failing that, the mystical donkey that was meant to be down in the cavern working the frozen donkey wheel finally turns up & is majorly angry that he's missed one time in ages that he could've turned the wheel, therefore goes wild & starts randomly kicking out at the Others. It can be very bad news for you if you get kicked hard by a donkey or any such equine animal!

My guess is the bad things stem from Locke's leadership (or lack thereof). Say what you want about Ben, but he had an excellent grasp of life on the Island. Locke is going to be looked to for answers, and he won't have them. Chaos will ensue when the Others realize he isn't the "one."

Does anyone know how it is that they *know* very bad things happen? I mean, the island disappeared.

Maybe life isnt all that bad on the island and John is lying in order to bring the Oceanic 6 back for some currently unknown purpose?

I wonder if Bentham approaches the 06 in a wheelchair.....

I wonder if Bentham approaches the 06 in a wheelchair.....

That's definitely interesting. Does the island keep you healed even when you leave?

I think we have to take everything Ben says with a grain of salt. He will tell anyone anything if it suits his purpose. Now if Jeremy Bentham is Locke very bad things things must mean that the island is not "advising" anyone as to what needs to be done. Without strong leadership chaos ensues. Perhaps Locke finds out he is not the leader that he thought he was.

I think it has to do with Dharma and Locke has been duped once again. Locke is not receiving his instructions from Jacob as Ben was. He is talking to Christian and I don't think any of the Others realize that. I think Horace Goodspeed helping Locke find Christian is a big clue. The commercial for Octagon Global Recruiting also suggests this.The island is now back in the hands of Dharma.

On the issue of Smokey running rampant, we saw that Ben called him/her/it by going through the door with the hieroglyphics (or whatever those carvings on the rock were), we also saw similar technology and drawings when Ben entered the FDW cave. So, it stands to reason that those were the tools of the culture that inhabited the island before DHARMA arrived. The same culture that erected the 4-toed statue. I believe this is the same culture that DHARMA named The Hostiles, of which Richard has always been a member. So, if Ben knew how to use the Smokey-calling device and what to do to move the island, then, someone from that culture had to teach him. Most likely Richard. So, Richard knows how to call Smokey too.

Now, on to the "terrible things" that happened on the island.

We know that John Locke is now the appointed leader of Richard's tribe. We've also had several statements from Ben that could be interpreted as foreshadowing; like the one about Locke manipulating Hurley during the trek to Jacob's cabin and the one about Destiny being a fickle Vincent.

Add to that what we saw Locke do when he was leading a group of people (the ones who chose to go with him to Otherville): he himself declared it wasn't a democracy, he felt entitled to enter people's houses without knocking and when push came to shove, he deferred all major decisions to Ben; Linus was the one calling the shots from the moment Locke decided to take him to Otherville.

Let's now take into account two key facts: Locke failed Richard's (Dhalai Lama) test and Locke has in more than one occasion misread /misinterpreted the island's signals (blowing up the Swan, entering 77, losing Jacob's favor).

All of this would seem to indicate that Locke is not the intended leader of the island, much as he would like to be. There's also his fascination with DHARMA and every single station he's encountered, when Jacob is so anti-technology and Richard called Ben's pregnancy research a side project. I think we'll see that Locke will be corrupted by power, just as Ben was, and he'll become very dangerous (he will eventually realize his mistakes and leave the island to get the O6).

We've also seen that Sawyer doesn't trust Locke's leadership anymore. Juliet probably doesn't want anything to do with Richard and what remains of The Others. Rose and Bernard have been victims of Juliet's former group as much as any of the redshirts left on the beach, so, they are probably not even considering joining those guys. Charlotte and Daniel knew (or suspected) that Ben and his people would gas everyone on the island, so, they probably are not eager to make friends with Locke's crew. Miles has probably "talked" to all the ghosts of the DHARMA pit, and knows that The Others/Hostiles killed all of them.

This sets up a fairly good ground for conflict between the beach folk and Locke's new flock. I don't think they'll be killing each other, but they will not be friends or work together.

I also think the island may have influence over the rest of the world, at least I hope so, because the writers have built up this Destiny theme so much, that it better have have cosmic consequences. I think we'll see a lack of food on the island (the DHARMA drops probably stopped after Locke entered 77 and alerted someone that the Hostiles were in charge), and whatever Locke does, it will affect the outside world. Maybe the whole human race will be in danger because of island events that can only be corrected when the O6 get back.

I wonder if the "very bad things" started to happen right away folllowing the O6's departure or if they started much later? I would prefer the latter since I'd hate to think of the left-behinds going through more hardships for the whole three years (well more hardships than being stranded on a 'regular' island wouldn entail).

I think if the "very bad things" did in fact affect the whole world it wouldn't be such a problem to get the 06 to go back. Even Kate would want to go if it would threaten her new life and child.
Of course maybe she doesn't believe it.

You have to wonder what any of these proposed bad things has to do with Jack leaving the island. Locke told him the bad things happened because he left. So the question is.........why? Is the island so pissed off that Jack got away that it's victimizing those that are inhabiting it? Sounds a bit silly to me.

The "very bad things" probably has more to do with the science trio of Charlotte, Miles and Farraday. With no Ben or Jack around, it looks like they can start exploring the island like they always wanted to. Maybe they activate some hidden evil or open up a pandora's box with their investigation and experiments. To a certain degree, those three are like the new version of Dharma (a group of scientists/researchers, looking to study the electromagnetic and other phenomenons of the island). And with Miles, they can especially found out all the island's secrets.

My guess is the bad things stem from Locke's leadership (or lack thereof). Say what you want about Ben, but he had an excellent grasp of life on the Island. Locke is going to be looked to for answers, and he won't have them. Chaos will ensue when the Others realize he isn't the "one."

I agree 100%. There have been several postings about the numerous messups Locke has done. The scene where Locke said he didn't know what anthuriums looked like was classic Locke, although Ben (as usual) manipulated him.

Locke is a good man, but he is not a leader.

The bad things are because Jack and other O6 members left. Locke's comments to Jack outside the Orchid station were about Jack failing to recognize Destiny. The same may be true for those who are left behind. They fail to recognize Destiny, too, so the same fate that comes to the O6 comes to the Islanders.

And just because no one has said anything about this yet--Desmond's boat is still floating around somewhere, yes? We know that Richard has left the Island before, so it's possible that he knew the coordinates to and from the Island, not just Ben. Since the Island has moved, new coordinates will have to be found. What if the process of finding new bearings brings about these bad things? We've seen what happens to people who are exposed to high levels of a electromagnetism and don't stay exactly on course. BTW, Desmond's boat could also explain how Locke ends up off-Island in the future.

You have to wonder what any of these proposed bad things has to do with Jack leaving the island. Locke told him the bad things happened because he left. So the question is.........why? Is the island so pissed off that Jack got away that it's victimizing those that are inhabiting it? Sounds a bit silly to me.
In other thread, we are arriving at the conclusion that Christian might not be really working for Jacob. He is an impostor. He is an opposite force to Jacob. Add that to the fact that Christian started roaming around the island right after the plane crash and, on top of that, his body was never found.....;)
Basically, a force other than Jacob, possessed Christian's body.
Now, Jack is responsible for bringing his dad's body on the plane. So perhaps that is what Locke meant....
Now, the really interesting part comes next...
Locke found out that he had been conned by this other force all along. He also knew that there was only one way to fix this:
This force, represented by Christian, has to be stopped. He is the dark side of the 'game'. Jacob, on the other hand, is the 'light' side. But there is a problem, a big one...
JACOB NEEDS A BODY!!!!
Now, some 30 years ago, Richard was trying to find out if Locke could be a 'host' for Jacob's 'soul'.... Apparently, Locke failed the test....
But now, 30 years later, Locke has finally understood the purpose of his life on the Island.
Knowing that the only way to 'go back' to the right time frame to reach and convience the Oceanic 6 to come back to the island is by turning the wheel again....He decides to sacrifice himself...
Locke is thrown out of the Island, 'landed' in the future....There he adopts the name Jeremy Bentham and then finds the 6 that should ahve never left. He tries to convince them to go back to the island....
Then, he knows there is only one thing left to do...
He needs to DIE. So he ethier commits suicide or have somebody else (Ben) kill him.

Now he just need to be brought back to the island so Jacob's soul can finally possess him. Just like the 'dark force' did with Christian's body....

crazy latin007 seems to have the best back-up for his theory... I'm creeped out about Octagon Global Recruiting... just got in

Apologies if this has been brought up....I didn't see it but I admit I was reading hurriedly.
I do believe that two forces are at work and the "dark side" has gained in power after the O6 left...
But in The Lost Experience, Mittelos took over the Hanso Foundation and in 2006 he presumably escaped to an island. Could the "bad things" be related to Mittlelos too? He was into some very unethical research.

...But in The Lost Experience, Mittelos took over the Hanso Foundation and in 2006 he presumably escaped to an island. Could the "bad things" be related to Mittlelos too?...

Probably not. TLE is non-canon. I don't think TPTB will be using that, but I could be wrong.

I'm going with this theory too. That or those meddling kids...Miles, Charlotte and Daniel. But all along it's been "2 opponents, one dark one light", plus the whole dream sequence where Lock has one completely black eye...was that Claire's dream? Lot's to rewatch and theorize about for the next 7 months.

In other thread, we are arriving at the conclusion that Christian might not be really working for Jacob. He is an impostor. He is an opposite force to Jacob. Add that to the fact that Christian started roaming around the island right after the plane crash and, on top of that, his body was never found.....;)
Basically, a force other than Jacob, possessed Christian's body.
Now, Jack is responsible for bringing his dad's body on the plane. So perhaps that is what Locke meant....
Now, the really interesting part comes next...
Locke found out that he had been conned by this other force all along. He also knew that there was only one way to fix this:
This force, represented by Christian, has to be stopped. He is the dark side of the 'game'. Jacob, on the other hand, is the 'light' side. But there is a problem, a big one...
JACOB NEEDS A BODY!!!!
Now, some 30 years ago, Richard was trying to find out if Locke could be a 'host' for Jacob's 'soul'.... Apparently, Locke failed the test....
But now, 30 years later, Locke has finally understood the purpose of his life on the Island.
Knowing that the only way to 'go back' to the right time frame to reach and convience the Oceanic 6 to come back to the island is by turning the wheel again....He decides to sacrifice himself...
Locke is thrown out of the Island, 'landed' in the future....There he adopts the name Jeremy Bentham and then finds the 6 that should ahve never left. He tries to convince them to go back to the island....
Then, he knows there is only one thing left to do...
He needs to DIE. So he ethier commits suicide or have somebody else (Ben) kill him.

Now he just need to be brought back to the island so Jacob's soul can finally possess him. Just like the 'dark force' did with Christian's body....

crazy latin007 seems to have the best back-up for his theory... I'm creeped out about Octagon Global Recruiting... just got in

Her! ;) And thank you!

One thing that is interesting is the dual light - dark theme running since the start.

Is it possible that Jack, the sheppard, is the light, that the island needs that counterbalancing force or its dark powers run rampant. Christian would represent the dark side... Not Jacob. Maybe, Jack is the one destined to become Jacob!!!

OMG it just dawned on me... Smokie... No BEN no way to control smokie... i think... not sure. another thing could be that Jack was meant to be the new leader of the island but was too faithless (christian sheppard, claire... all in the family)... and if Claire was calm and smiling when locke came to the cabin then it is not obvious what the bad things that will happen are. She makes it seem like life is beautiful and all is happy and well in Hallowax Land. But i'm guessing Jack was an integral part to the islands purpose. Or maybe its all just a coincidence and the island just picks random corpses and revives them in order to kill. I have no idea but maybe i'm on to something when it comes to smokie.... OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH good God! remember Richard saying that Locke wasnt special at all when Locke was a kid cause he wsnt able to select all three items from the table. I think something happens there where richard gets really ticked off and goes haywire
maybe richard bans locke from the island causing him to leave. pouting, locke wants so badly to be a part of the wonderful island and is using the 6 to go back, knowing they are the only ones who can return......or maybe richard told him to go and don't come back without them!

I was wondering did Ben same some very bad things happened on the Island since you left or just that some very bad things happened since you left?

Probably not. TLE is non-canon. I don't think TPTB will be using that, but I could be wrong.
Per Darlton, it is canon but viewers do not need to play the game to understand what will happen on the show. But hard to say if Mittelos will actually show up on the Island....it does sound more like its the history obtained from TLE that is canon.

Damon Lindelof: I would say in terms of all the… background that we did, in terms of the Valenzzetti Equation and explaining the formation of the Hanso Foundation and doing the other films…we’d consider that stuff canon to the show. Where there’d have to be wiggle room is the Rachel Blake story where she’s in the real world, in the outside world as we define it, the show Lost might be defined in an entirely different outside world so we can’t vouch for the overall fit ability and veracity of everything that Rachel was doing. But we can say that all the factoids that she was uncovering were vetted, in fact many of them were written by us personally so they are canon.

The bad things - maybe Jacob stops talking to Locke.........Maybe Jacob tells Locke he needs the O6 back and this is what to do to get them back....including the fake death spider bites.....they are on the list!

I totally agree with all of you that believe "The Bad Things" are happening on the Island bec/ the "dark side" has gained in power.

So, if that is true then Jack leaving tipped the scales back in favor of the "dark side" ... Locke did know that Jack was not supposed to leave. I guessn deep down Locke knew he needed Jack's help...apart they suffer....they need each other for balance. Sort of a yin/yang thing.

strange how a dark side takes over when Ben loses control!

They stopped making Ranch Dressing!!! Oh the Horror!!!

one thing...who turned off the donkey wheel? Benry isn't there, Locke left, Keamy is dead...that thing was still emitting it's 'rays' for quite awhile before Richard would be able to get to it to turn it back, and off.....they may have moved a lot further than we may think....??

I agree that they could be recruiting new members to re-colonize. i read the body count on lostpedia, there are not many Others left, about 20, and + about 13 tailies they kidnapped. Only about 20 Fusies left.

I can totally see Charlotte taming Smokie...he now has a spiked collar and a leash and she parades him around, while wearing thigh high boots, lol!
The new queen of Lemuria!!
:3heads:

100%
I totally agree with all of you that believe "The Bad Things" are happening on the Island bec/ the "dark side" has gained in power.


Dark side? which movie you watching? LOL!!! :palpatine

Wow thanks everyone! I go away for a day and all sorts of cool thoughts pop up.

My OP was trying to grapple with the something beyond the death of those left behind on the island. Let's face it, those left behind have been considered dead by the now world for quite some time. It seems to me the "very bad things" are way more ominous than that and is possibly the coloring of the remaining episodes.

Someone brought up the fact about Ben; how could he know about the "very bad things"? since he's banished from the island after turning the whell (as far as we know thus far). He could be conning the O6. He could have been there before (in time) as both seem possible.

For some reason I keep returning to the famous numbers. These numbers are such a huge thing in my mind. They keep going like that battery bunny that won't quit. I would have brushed them aside but once they turned up in Hurley's Camaro odometer, well they became important again. I realize that in the internet realm these numbers mean the end of humanity. As far as the show aired on TV this has not been mentioned yet, to my knowledge.

I'm leaning towards the very bad things becoming the realization of the mass audience that more is at stake than the lives of our losties. I'm (not totally convinced yet) that humankind is at stake here

Someone brought up the fact about Ben; how could he know about the "very bad things"? since he's banished from the island after turning the whell (as far as we know thus far). He could be conning the O6. He could have been there before (in time) as both seem possible.

He talked to Locke, most probable...

I keep thinking about the "sickness" with Rousseau's people. Or maybe Richard and the others convince Locke that another purge is necessary. I remember Ben telling Hurley as they were overlooking the dharma grave, that he didnt make all the decisions. Richard seems to have had a manipulative control over Ben, the same way Ben has had over Locke.

Ben said there would be some consequences of moving the island so i guess the very bad things happened because they moved the island but for some reason the absence of Jack and the rest of the Oceanic 6 also affected those consequences...
Locke got off the island to convince the Oceanic 6 to come back... maybe its the only way to fix what's happened

I agree with others about the sickness, I think it could come into play with the left-behinds.

Not many of the left-behinds like Locke, especially Rose and Sawyer. So I wonder what happens with the others and left-behinds, and how Locke gets to the real-world.

Per Darlton, it is canon but viewers do not need to play the game to understand what will happen on the show. But hard to say if Mittelos will actually show up on the Island....it does sound more like its the history obtained from TLE that is canon....

Gosh, that directly contradicts something I heard them say about not wanting to force the viewers to have to go to cyber space.

You'd save me some time (if you don't mind) telling me which podcast was that from. I guess the one I heard must have preceded that one.

I can’t help but think that there are going to be consequences to Lock’s omission to Ben and Hurley about Clair being in the cabin (without Aaron no less). I’m starting to think that Ben moved the island at someone else’s request. And if Ben had the missing info, he would have probably realized that Jacob’s cabin had been infiltrated.

Gosh, that directly contradicts something I heard them say about not wanting to force the viewers to have to go to cyber space.

You'd save me some time (if you don't mind) telling me which podcast was that from. I guess the one I heard must have preceded that one.

They are saying we don't need info gleaned from TLE to understand LOST ....it gives tangential information as to the history of the Island,The Black Rock,Dharma,the Hanso Foundation etc.

The info came from an interview by BUDDY TV with Cuse and Lindelof...
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/lost/buddytv-interviews-losts-damon-4766.aspx

I haven't read all these posts yet, but has anyone considered that people who were once on the island and leave cannot be killed. Remember Ben's comment to Widmore and how Michael could not kill himself. So how could Locke be dead?

I haven't read all these posts yet, but has anyone considered that people who were once on the island and leave cannot be killed. Remember Ben's comment to Widmore and how Michael could not kill himself. So how could Locke be dead?

Mike couldn't kill himself because the Island wouldn't let him. He had "work" to do, and when that work was done, SCS came and told Mike his time was up and he was killed when the Freighter blew up. The Island intercedes as it sees fit if you're earmarked for a particular task. Once that's completed, watch out!

I haven't read all these posts yet, but has anyone considered that people who were once on the island and leave cannot be killed. Remember Ben's comment to Widmore and how Michael could not kill himself. So how could Locke be dead?

Welcome to the board jaaron. Just a few tips, if I may, to make your experience here a better one:

It's not required, but it's always nice to read what others have posted before jumping into a discussion. It makes us feel that you care about our opinions, at least as much as you want us to care about yours
It is required to stay on topic (although we do fall into sideline arguments from time to time). I'm not sure how your comment relates to the topic at hand, which is "what very bad things happened" to the left behinds after the O6 left. Maybe search the Genereal Theories forum or the episode forum to see if someone is already discussing whether the people that left can / can't be killed.
This is a big place, it pays to get to know it and explore all the different boards. There's a lot going on and many intelligent posts out there to check out. There are communities for fans of specific actors / characters, general discussions, spoilers.... There are even places to just rant about what you don't like.
The "User CP" feature is your friend (Link is at the top menu, on the right side). It lets you see who has posted new replies on the threads you suscribed to (by posting on them or using the "Tools Thread" feature, an option available at the beginning of every thread) and to manage PMs (Personal Messages from other posters. You can also edit your profile and add an avatar / custom titles.Hope you have a nice time with us and HAPPY POSTING!

I can’t help but think that there are going to be consequences to Lock’s omission to Ben and Hurley about Clair being in the cabin (without Aaron no less). I’m starting to think that Ben moved the island at someone else’s request. And if Ben had the missing info, he would have probably realized that Jacob’s cabin had been infiltrated.

Bingo. Ben moved the Island thinking it was Jacob, but it was actually SCS acting as Jacob's "spokesman", which stands a good possibility of being a farce. Locke is so eager to be the "man" he stumbles around like a blind man in the dark. All of Ben's warnings about the pitfalls of leadsership are legit.

Somebody hurt their toe on a tree branch, Locke had a stomach ache and Juliet burned his hand while cooking.

Jack wan't there to heal them!!!

BAD THINGS

We have to take into account that Locke blames jack for these bad things. Maybe the losties who are left, without a leader, lose their way or turn against Locke and the others. Whatever happens I think could have been avoided if Jack had stayed.

Don't ask me where I heard/read this but isn't next season supposed to be about ...


Dharma ?


If that's the case, then

the bad things could be because our Fab Four re-start various Dharma Initiative things that give Widmore access to the Island at the end of next season,

and the bad things that happen are shown at the beginning of the next season with the series finale showing

the return of the O6 and how they stop the bad things.

We may need to remember that there are two more seasons for this show. :eek2:

Don't ask me where I heard/read this but isn't next season supposed to be about ...


Dharma ?


If that's the case, then

the bad things could be because our Fab Four re-start various Dharma Initiative things that give Widmore access to the Island at the end of next season,

and the bad things that happen are shown at the beginning of the next season with the series finale showing

the return of the O6 and how they stop the bad things.

We may need to remember that there are two more seasons for this show. :eek2:

Darlton have stated in several ocassions that next season is about Why the O6 need to go back and S6 is about what happens after they get back

As far as I know, they've never said S5 is about DHARMA although I belive that telling the story of the people left behind (which they will do, I mean we can't not see part of the cast for an entire season, so...) will probably entail finding out more about the island's properties and the role DHARMA played by manipulating them

My first (& quite obvious) instinct is that the Island/Jacob stops healing people & slowly the electro-magnetism or something else causes cancer & other fatal diseases in the inhabitants. Would the EM field on & around the island change significantly because of the island moving in time & space?

Failing that, the mystical donkey that was meant to be down in the cavern working the frozen donkey wheel finally turns up & is majorly angry that he's missed one time in ages that he could've turned the wheel, therefore goes wild & starts randomly kicking out at the Others. It can be very bad news for you if you get kicked hard by a donkey or any such equine animal!
Especially if he's a mystical donkey, I bet that kick can take down walls.

CL,

If that's true about next season's thrust,
then Widmore's gonna play a huge role. He's the reason the O6 left the way that they did and the reason they lied about Island.

And since three years have elapsed between the O6 leaving the Island and the pleas of "Jeremy" to return, it's not a far leap to make to think that Chuck getting access to the power behind the Casimir Effect chamber (and all the other power of the Island) is a huge threat to humanity.

Bingo. Ben moved the Island thinking it was Jacob, but it was actually SCS acting as Jacob's "spokesman", which stands a good possibility of being a farce. Locke is so eager to be the "man" he stumbles around like a blind man in the dark. All of Ben's warnings about the pitfalls of leadsership are legit.

amosito hit the nail on the head. It seemed to me that ben was operating under the assumption that it was jacob in the cabin that Locke had talked to. Of course he is a cunning SOB and could have known all along it was CS.

And Hurley never mentioned the two people he saw in the cabin either. It looks like the island tricked locke into conning ben to move the island. That whole conversation between Christian and John in the cabin came off like CS was taking what locke said and turning it back on him. As if he really didn't have the all the information.

I'm operating under the assumption that CS sans suit, isn't a very good guy.

Richard wants Locke to be the one, or atleast be better than Ben, he wouldn't have given him Sawyers file if he didn't want to see him slide into Ben's leadership spot, but Locke having not killed his father as Ben did, never fully made that gesture of commitment Ben told him was needed. I can see Locke wandering around at the helm, making decisions the others don't much care for.

[quote=amberslost;1910734]I can't stop thinking about this haunting line.
What happened?

I think Locke happened. The guy was a nut job to begin with and he's the one in charge now? I could see disaster coming on the millisecond Ben handed the reigns over to him

amosito hit the nail on the head. It seemed to me that ben was operating under the assumption that it was jacob in the cabin that Locke had talked to. Of course he is a cunning SOB and could have known all along it was CS.



I think CS is a legitimate proxy for Jacob. I think TPTB gave Christian this responsibility in order to provide us viewers with the (pseudo-)Jacob facetime we crave, without actually revealing the true identity or nature of Jacob just yet.
100%

Someone brought up the fact about Ben; how could he know about the "very bad things"? since he's banished from the island after turning the whell (as far as we know thus far). He could be conning the O6. He could have been there before (in time) as both seem possible.


Did Ben actually bring up the "bad things" in conversation with Jack? I thought it was Jack who told Kate that Bentham said "very bad things have been happening"... Maybe I'm wrong. But then again, if in fact Bentham had visited all or most of the 06, he probably gave them all the "bad things" speech, and Ben could easily have contacted any of the 06 prior to meeting up with Jack, and gotten the news through them.

Now, on to the "terrible things" that happened on the island....

Add to that what we saw Locke do when he was leading a group of people (the ones who chose to go with him to Otherville): he himself declared it wasn't a democracy, he felt entitled to enter people's houses without knocking and when push came to shove, he deferred all major decisions to Ben; Linus was the one calling the shots from the moment Locke decided to take him to Otherville.

Let's now take into account two key facts: Locke failed Richard's (Dhalai Lama) test and Locke has in more than one occasion misread /misinterpreted the island's signals (blowing up the Swan, entering 77, losing Jacob's favor).

All of this would seem to indicate that Locke is not the intended leader of the island, much as he would like to be. There's also his fascination with DHARMA and every single station he's encountered, when Jacob is so anti-technology and Richard called Ben's pregnancy research a side project. I think we'll see that Locke will be corrupted by power, just as Ben was, and he'll become very dangerous (he will eventually realize his mistakes and leave the island to get the O6).

We've also seen that Sawyer doesn't trust Locke's leadership anymore. Juliet probably doesn't want anything to do with Richard and what remains of The Others. Rose and Bernard have been victims of Juliet's former group as much as any of the redshirts left on the beach, so, they are probably not even considering joining those guys. Charlotte and Daniel knew (or suspected) that Ben and his people would gas everyone on the island, so, they probably are not eager to make friends with Locke's crew. Miles has probably "talked" to all the ghosts of the DHARMA pit, and knows that The Others/Hostiles killed all of them.

This sets up a fairly good ground for conflict between the beach folk and Locke's new flock. I don't think they'll be killing each other, but they will not be friends or work together.

I also think the island may have influence over the rest of the world, at least I hope so, because the writers have built up this Destiny theme so much, that it better have have cosmic consequences. I think we'll see a lack of food on the island (the DHARMA drops probably stopped after Locke entered 77 and alerted someone that the Hostiles were in charge), and whatever Locke does, it will affect the outside world. Maybe the whole human race will be in danger because of island events that can only be corrected when the O6 get back.

This sounds like a likely scenario to me as well. I think human conflict on the island has got to be at least a part of whatever "bad things" happened on the island -- that makes for drama.

The "very bad things" probably has more to do with the science trio of Charlotte, Miles and Farraday. With no Ben or Jack around, it looks like they can start exploring the island like they always wanted to. Maybe they activate some hidden evil or open up a pandora's box with their investigation and experiments. To a certain degree, those three are like the new version of Dharma.


And just because no one has said anything about this yet--Desmond's boat is still floating around somewhere, yes? We know that Richard has left the Island before, so it's possible that he knew the coordinates to and from the Island, not just Ben. Since the Island has moved, new coordinates will have to be found. What if the process of finding new bearings brings about these bad things? We've seen what happens to people who are exposed to high levels of a electromagnetism and don't stay exactly on course. BTW, Desmond's boat could also explain how Locke ends up off-Island in the future.

This is an interesting idea too -- the idea that moving the island itself introduces a new set of complications and dangers to those on the island.

In other thread, we are arriving at the conclusion that Christian might not be really working for Jacob. He is an impostor. He is an opposite force to Jacob. Add that to the fact that Christian started roaming around the island right after the plane crash and, on top of that, his body was never found.....;)
Basically, a force other than Jacob, possessed Christian's body.
Now, Jack is responsible for bringing his dad's body on the plane. So perhaps that is what Locke meant....
Now, the really interesting part comes next...
Locke found out that he had been conned by this other force all along. He also knew that there was only one way to fix this:
This force, represented by Christian, has to be stopped. He is the dark side of the 'game'. Jacob, on the other hand, is the 'light' side. But there is a problem, a big one...
JACOB NEEDS A BODY!!!!
Now, some 30 years ago, Richard was trying to find out if Locke could be a 'host' for Jacob's 'soul'.... Apparently, Locke failed the test....
But now, 30 years later, Locke has finally understood the purpose of his life on the Island.
Knowing that the only way to 'go back' to the right time frame to reach and convience the Oceanic 6 to come back to the island is by turning the wheel again....He decides to sacrifice himself...
Locke is thrown out of the Island, 'landed' in the future....There he adopts the name Jeremy Bentham and then finds the 6 that should ahve never left. He tries to convince them to go back to the island....
Then, he knows there is only one thing left to do...
He needs to DIE. So he ethier commits suicide or have somebody else (Ben) kill him.

Now he just need to be brought back to the island so Jacob's soul can finally possess him. Just like the 'dark force' did with Christian's body....

Fierro, I think you make a good argument for CS being an "anti-Jacob," who could be misdirecting Locke and therefore Ben. I resist this idea because CS is such a silver fox. ;) But working in favor of your argument is the issue of whether we have had any good daddies at all in Lost? I guess Kate's non-biological dad is fine, and Hugo's is so-so, but most of them seem to be pretty bad people who need to be repudiated, rather than reconciled with, in order for their children to move on. So maybe the figure of CS will need to be destroyed? Against that argument is the fact that there did seem to be a good or at least decent side to CS in some of the flashbacks and that Claire followed him and seems to be in his keeping (though that could also be bad). I don't know.

Not sure I buy Locke realizing his purpose is to be the vessel for Jacob and coming off-island to die and be brought back for that purpose. Why not just die on-island and save some trouble? I think all the "Locke screws up his leadership role" proposals have the weight of past behavior in their favor. Or as hezekiah put it more tersely :biggrin: :

[quote=amberslost;1910734]
What happened?

I think Locke happened. The guy was a nut job to begin with and he's the one in charge now? I could see disaster coming on the millisecond Ben handed the reigns over to him



the bad things could be because our Fab Four re-start various Dharma Initiative things that give Widmore access to the Island at the end of next season,
:

Another interesting possibility, though I would hate to think Miles, Dan and Charlotte would still help Widmore after seeing what he is capable of.

ETA: What happened to Jacob, anyway? Where is he, and why did he go away? And what if HE's the bad one and CS is the good one?

What I started thinking about was the ash surrounding Jacob's cabin when we originally encounter it in the Man Behind the Curtain. Theories abound about that ring of ash being the binder or fence that keeps jacob in the cabin. Or the cabin where Ben knewc could find it. Now did Ben put the ring there? Someone else?

The question that's had me thinking, and it's comes from assuming that the ash was used to bind Jacob the derelict spirit to the cabin or even the cabin itself, is who freed Jacob? How did he get out?

It looked like Hurley was the only person to see Christian, (definitively), and Jacob, (maybe not as clear cut) in the cabin. If Christian is his own entity and not the voice of Jacob; where did Jacob go and how did he get out? Is it known to the rogue spirits on the island that the cabin is the place where the ethereal plane can exist with the physical? Because up until Ben/Locke and Hurley found it again, I thought it was more a prison. The palce to keep your pet genius or omniscient spectre.

I guess I'm just re-iterating mmpd here. Where did Jacob go? Why is Christian in the cabin, do they work together or are they opposed? Who has better intentions? Does the cabin have indoor plumbing?

Hi all,
New member, first post :) But I am addicted to LOST. It's a sickness...I know Anyway.
My thought about Claire telling Kate not to bring Arron back was this, All 6 have to go back together...so I thought that claire was trying to stop her from bringing Arron back because he is one of the 6. If he stays behind, then the others going back will not "work"

I think CS is a legitimate proxy for Jacob. I think TPTB gave Christian this responsibility in order to provide us viewers with the (pseudo-)Jacob facetime we crave, without actually revealing the true identity or nature of Jacob just yet.

I agree. But I also think there is a reason why we can't see Jacob... he doesn't want to show himself.

What I started thinking about was the ash surrounding Jacob's cabin when we originally encounter it in the Man Behind the Curtain. Theories abound about that ring of ash being the binder or fence that keeps jacob in the cabin. Or the cabin where Ben knew he could find it. Now did Ben put the ring there? Someone else?

The question that's had me thinking, and it's comes from assuming that the ash was used to bind Jacob the derelict spirit to the cabin or even the cabin itself, is who freed Jacob? How did he get out?


I think TPTB have said about the ash
that it was both meant to keep the cabin there and meant to be like a protection also... that Ben and Jacob are at a stand off in terms of their relationship

I really think Jacob is sick and that's why 1. He cries out to Locke for help and 2. Why Ben can talk to him the way he does in the cabin (being that he told Locke Jacob scares him), and 3. why the Whispers when Hurley spies on the cabin say "You're an alchemist..." (doctor) and "Here's that recipe..." (prescription)

We already know of one very bad thing that happened that would be news to the O6...Claire is sitting in some trance-like state in a cabin inhabited by dead people.

The Christian who was in the cabin appears to be another "bad thing." Now Jacob might not have helped make life on the Island a positive experience for the Losties either, but IMO he is not in cahoots with C.S.

The last time we (sort of) saw Jacob, he was barely visible, living in a cabin surrounded by ash and asking Locke "Help me." Jacob's being seemed vulnerable at best. Now TPTB have given C.S the body and voice in which Jacob can speak through? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Ben faithfulness to Jacob and the Island was proven by his wheel turning and acceptance of being banished from the Island. If Ben has always been a faithful follower, what was Richard's real beef with him? Maybe Richard's real problem was with Jacob. Along comes dead C.S, he hooks up with Richard, they make Jacob disappear and the rest is history. (No claim to knowing WHY C.S or who that apparition really is).

The way the Others, dressed in their best primitive rags, looked up at Locke was waaayy creepy. They seem to have big hopes and plans for him. Plans that Jacob and Ben were perhaps holding up. Bad plans.

As has been mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised if the "bad" plans dealt with things on a much grander scale than the Island, maybe the world.

We could have a "beat the clock" situation going on back at the Island. Our Losties + 4 could be trying to figure out and foil the plans of the Others while the Other's strive to accomplish their final goal.

The Losties and/or Locke realize they need the O6 to return. Miles figures out how to imperfectly beam someone back home to alert the O6. As pay back for be such a schmuck, Locke volunteers and everyone agrees.

[quote=mmpd;1924770]Another interesting possibility, though I would hate to think Miles, Dan and Charlotte would still help Widmore after seeing what he is capable of.[quote]

How much money did Widmore offer Miles? We've seen Miles jump at the bait so long as the number is high enough. And Widmore must have offered Miles a lot of money. But Miles also has some sort of moral compass. It's a badly broken one, but his scene with the grandmother seems to indicate that a moral compass is buried somewhere in him. So he might not WILLINGLY help Widmore now that he knows what's what. It's going to depend on what he hears the WHISPERS tell him. We may find out just exactly what Dharma was doing in the past via Miles, and they may not seem all that "evil" to Miles. Remember that Richard, as head of the Natives, came up with the idea to get rid of the Dharmites, so Miles may end up being sympathetic to the "ghosts" and choose to side with Widmore. Ben carried out Richard's plan, or Ben helped fine-tune Richard's plan, but getting rid of all the Dharmites--that was Richard's plan, the one he massaged into Ben for years.

Charlotte may have more than just a business relationship with Widmore. And I'd bet a dozen doughnuts that he funded all of her anthropology research. She chose to stay on the Island even when Dan told her that they had to leave, so she somehow thought that she'd be ok no matter what happened--Dan's comment to her was a veiled comment that seemed to indicate that she had an idea of what the Orchid station could do, and by 'what it could do' I do not mean the Casimir Effect chamber but the Donkey Wheel. If she knew, she knew because Widmore had helped her discover the secrets, so I wouldn't immediately buy into the idea that she wouldn't help Widmore. Also, Charlotte's been told lots of things about the people who are on the Island, so she isn't likely to suddenly trust them. She hasn't made friends with the Losties--they've treated "Red" with less than an open-arm policy. That helps make her alligience to Widmore stronger.

Dan, well, he's the wild card. First, he's offshore during the "move" so he won't be in the first couple of episodes (assuming that he "moved" with the Island). That gives "Red" time to do some exploring and make decisions witihout Dan. Second, Dan loves Charlotte, so he could be manipulated by his feelings for her to help Charles Widmore. And all the science of the Island is a HUGE carrot to hold in front of Dan's nose--he has his heart's desire (science) right there for the taking, and if Charlotte, his other heart's desire, convinces him to take the "apple" and bite ...

well ...

... we all know that story.

So, I'm not betting that the newest Islanders won't bring about the bad things that happen.

[quote=mmpd;1924770]Another interesting possibility, though I would hate to think Miles, Dan and Charlotte would still help Widmore after seeing what he is capable of.[quote]

How much money did Widmore offer Miles? We've seen Miles jump at the bait so long as the number is high enough. And Widmore must have offered Miles a lot of money. But Miles also has some sort of moral compass. It's a badly broken one, but his scene with the grandmother seems to indicate that a moral compass is buried somewhere in him. So he might not WILLINGLY help Widmore now that he knows what's what. It's going to depend on what he hears the WHISPERS tell him. We may find out just exactly what Dharma was doing in the past via Miles, and they may not seem all that "evil" to Miles. Remember that Richard, as head of the Natives, came up with the idea to get rid of the Dharmites, so Miles may end up being sympathetic to the "ghosts" and choose to side with Widmore. Ben carried out Richard's plan, or Ben helped fine-tune Richard's plan, but getting rid of all the Dharmites--that was Richard's plan, the one he massaged into Ben for years.

Charlotte may have more than just a business relationship with Widmore. And I'd bet a dozen doughnuts that he funded all of her anthropology research. She chose to stay on the Island even when Dan told her that they had to leave, so she somehow thought that she'd be ok no matter what happened--Dan's comment to her was a veiled comment that seemed to indicate that she had an idea of what the Orchid station could do, and by 'what it could do' I do not mean the Casimir Effect chamber but the Donkey Wheel. If she knew, she knew because Widmore had helped her discover the secrets, so I wouldn't immediately buy into the idea that she wouldn't help Widmore. Also, Charlotte's been told lots of things about the people who are on the Island, so she isn't likely to suddenly trust them. She hasn't made friends with the Losties--they've treated "Red" with less than an open-arm policy. That helps make her alligience to Widmore stronger.

Dan, well, he's the wild card. First, he's offshore during the "move" so he won't be in the first couple of episodes (assuming that he "moved" with the Island). That gives "Red" time to do some exploring and make decisions witihout Dan. Second, Dan loves Charlotte, so he could be manipulated by his feelings for her to help Charles Widmore. And all the science of the Island is a HUGE carrot to hold in front of Dan's nose--he has his heart's desire (science) right there for the taking, and if Charlotte, his other heart's desire, convinces him to take the "apple" and bite ...

well ...

... we all know that story.

So, I'm not betting that the newest Islanders won't bring about the bad things that happen.

Very good points all. And it would be very un-Darlton to have the newcomers be straightforwardly on one side or the other.

Kind of veering back to the CS speculation here, but I'd love to see some kind of tally where we could attempt to see if the CS ghost/Jacob vessel/spiritguide or whatever he is has helped or hurt the Losties so far.

The way the Others, dressed in their best primitive rags, looked up at Locke was waaayy creepy. They seem to have big hopes and plans for him. Plans that Jacob and Ben were perhaps holding up. Bad plans.

As has been mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised if the "bad" plans dealt with things on a much grander scale than the Island, maybe the world.

We could have a "beat the clock" situation going on back at the Island. Our Losties + 4 could be trying to figure out and foil the plans of the Others while the Other's strive to accomplish their final goal.

The Losties and/or Locke realize they need the O6 to return. Miles figures out how to imperfectly beam someone back home to alert the O6. As pay back for be such a schmuck, Locke volunteers and everyone agrees.

Yes this may be what Richard referred to when Locke couldn't kill his father. I recall Richard saying something like Ben is wasting our time with this reproduction research when Richard felt there were bigger fish to fry. This is exactly why he was so eager to help Locke kill his father via Sawyer

And Locke has been led by the nose alot, at various points through out his life. That he didn't kill his father himself, like Ben did, to me, makes me think he's still not in the drivers seat of his life.

Richard wanted him because Ben wasn't as easily led.

I agree with others about the sickness, I think it could come into play with the left-behinds.

Not many of the left-behinds like Locke, especially Rose and Sawyer. So I wonder what happens with the others and left-behinds, and how Locke gets to the real-world.

Agree about the sickness. Disagree about Sawyer. He obviously didn't appreciate Locke pulling a gun on him, but I think there's a significant bond and level of respect between the two.

We have that one comment from Rose, after Locke killed Naomi. I guess we have yet to see how it changes her long-term outlook of Locke. Locke has inspired nearly everyone at one time or another. Rose is the one person who has done the same for Locke.

Thinking of who else is left, I think it's safe to put Miles in the non-fan camp. And Charlotte. I don't think Dan or Juliette have ever met him. The fan side isn't faring too well. Danielle and Alex are dead, and Claire is all... funny. I'm anticipating Desmond coming back though. He's a fan.

And of course we have the impression that the Others are now all uber-fan, lay-down-our-lives-at-thy-whim devotees.... which is always nice.
100%
Yes this may be what Richard referred to when Locke couldn't kill his father. I recall Richard saying something like Ben is wasting our time with this reproduction research when Richard felt there were bigger fish to fry. This is exactly why he was so eager to help Locke kill his father via Sawyer
Yes, but I don't agree with those saying that it is about Richard's agenda or that he is some big manipulator. Locke "gets" what the island is all about. "I have looked into the eye of this island. And what I saw... was beautiful." Like he told Ben (who had all the secrets, while Locke had none), "If you had any idea what this island was, you would be.... putting chicken in the refrigerator!" It seemed that Richard had the same idea of Locke as a kind of visionary, when said to him, "we need someone to remind us of why we're here." They know how important the island is, and they want someone to lead them who really gets it.
100%
We already know of one very bad thing that happened that would be news to the O6...Claire is sitting in some trance-like state in a cabin inhabited by dead people. The Christian who was in the cabin appears to be another "bad thing."
I don't see how either of those could be "very bad things." My impression was that they were both very good things.

One can potentially speculate anything in regards to mythology or mysticism or pseudoscience, as there are no hard-and-fast rules in those things for telling a story. But there are hard-and-fast rules for character. And as I understand those rules, it is not possible for someone (CS) to transform from a weak-willed but thoroughly good-hearted and well-meaning person into a diabolical character who is out to bring about destruction and badness upon Lostia.

Agree about the sickness. Disagree about Sawyer. He obviously didn't appreciate Locke pulling a gun on him, but I think there's a significant bond and level of respect between the two.

We have that one comment from Rose, after Locke killed Naomi. I guess we have yet to see how it changes her long-term outlook of Locke. Locke has inspired nearly everyone at one time or another. Rose is the one person who has done the same for Locke.

Thinking of who else is left, I think it's safe to put Miles in the non-fan camp. And Charlotte. I don't think Dan or Juliette have ever met him. The fan side isn't faring too well. Danielle and Alex are dead, and Claire is all... funny. I'm anticipating Desmond coming back though. He's a fan.

I believe you're right that Dan has never met him, but Juliet did meet him after he blew up the sub she was supposed to be leaving the Island on with Jack. So I would put Juliet in the "not a fan" of Locke group.;)

But there are hard-and-fast rules for character. And as I understand those rules, it is not possible for someone (CS) to transform from a weak-willed but thoroughly good-hearted and well-meaning person into a diabolical character who is out to bring about destruction and badness upon Lostia.

This is the issue for me as well. I guess it is possible, though, to pull one of those Cobra-reversals where the good guy is revealed to be a bad guy, but there does have to be something in that guy's character that we can look back on, after the reveal, and say, "Oh yes, he had the potential to be a bad guy all along." The question is whether CS has that.
Also the issue of his name, as nancy mentioned in another thread. A bad guy named Christian Shepherd?

But otoh, are there many good daddies in Lost?

I wonder if Bentham approaches the 06 in a wheelchair.....

i was wondering that also.
But I just thought about what Kate said to Jack at the Los Angeles Airport.

she said that Bentham came to her and told her things but she thinks he is just crazy. So if Locke was in a wheelchair and Locke told Kate b/4 crashing on the island he was paralized-when he was on the island he could walk etc. and now he off the island and paralized again. If he was in a wheelchair I think Locke would mention this. (or maybe not since nobody tells anyone anything..LOL:biggrin: ) Just kidding.....

would she still think he was crazy after hearing that story?

Kate could have looked him up on the computer to see if Locke was lying about his fall - paralization, etc.

so i am still wondering if he did show up in a wheelchair. :undecide:

The most simple solution: they were never meant to leave. Fate frowned upon them, threw complications into their lives and those around them.

True. They were never meant to leave the island. Ben tried to keep them there. Jacob tried to keep them there.

I think they are supposed to be dead, and the island is, among other things, a way to get around the universe's ability to course correct.


I agree with others about the sickness, I think it could come into play with the left-behinds

Agree about the sickness too.




Originally Posted by CarpeDiem23
I wonder if Bentham approaches the 06 in a wheelchair.....


i was wondering that also.
But I just thought about what Kate said to Jack at the Los Angeles Airport.

she said that Bentham came to her and told her things but she thinks he is just crazy. So if Locke was in a wheelchair and Locke told Kate b/4 crashing on the island he was paralized-when he was on the island he could walk etc. and now he off the island and paralized again. If he was in a wheelchair I think Locke would mention this. (or maybe not since nobody tells anyone anything..LOL:biggrin: ) Just kidding.....

would she still think he was crazy after hearing that story?

Kate could have looked him up on the computer to see if Locke was lying about his fall - paralization, etc.

so i am still wondering if he did show up in a wheelchair. :undecide:

Locke is afraid that if he leaves the island his paralysis will return. Ben sees this fear and mentions it to Locke. But I don't see how getting off the island would really change his physical state for the worse if the island healed him. Although if the island giveth, the island can taketh away.

Locke/Bentham tells Jack that the bad things that happened after they left the island happened because they left. It's interesting that Ben and Richard let them go...obviously there was no forsight beyond Locke's pleas that Jack et al leaving was going to be disasterous.

I think the main reason CS said to move the island was to get Aaron off the island. The island had to move so that Lapidus couldn't fly back to the island to land. On the way to the Orchid, Hurley asks Ben why he didn't move the island before the mercs got there.... which makes the most sense because they would have avoided a lot of bloodshed and as people have said here...if the reason to move the island was so Widmore can't find it, then they should have moved the island as soon as they knew that Widmore had found it. Ben knew when the freighter had found the island by having Michael spy on the freighties. So, I think CS was intending to move the island at the time that it was moved-exactly.

Ben sees his banishment as a punishment, but It may be that Jacob wanted Ben off the island in order to help get the O6 back. As in everything happens for a reason. And yet, I don't think Ben is opposed to Locke and the Others... they are, as he says, "my people." So, the master manipulator seems in some ways manipulated by Jacob/the island/?

I'm still not convinced that CS and Jacob aren't working together. In fact at this point I'm rather convinced that something is wrong with Jacob and CS is speaking on his behalf.

i
I think the main reason CS said to move the island was to get Aaron off the island. The island had to move so that Lapidus couldn't fly back to the island to land. On the way to the Orchid, Hurley asks Ben why he didn't move the island before the mercs got there.... which makes the most sense because they would have avoided a lot of bloodshed and as people have said here...if the reason to move the island was so Widmore can't find it, then they should have moved the island as soon as they knew that Widmore had found it. Ben knew when the freighter had found the island by having Michael spy on the freighties. So, I think CS was intending to move the island at the time that it was moved-exactly.

Ben sees his banishment as a punishment, but It may be that Jacob wanted Ben off the island in order to help get the O6 back. As in everything happens for a reason. And yet, I don't think Ben is opposed to Locke and the Others... they are, as he says, "my people." So, the master manipulator seems in some ways manipulated by Jacob/the island/?

I'm still not convinced that CS and Jacob aren't working together. In fact at this point I'm rather convinced that something is wrong with Jacob and CS is speaking on his behalf.

You make a pretty good case for moving the island to keep Aaron from returning, as opposed to hiding from Widmore or trying to avoid the freighties. But when Hurley asks Ben why he didn't move the island earlier to avoid the baddies, Ben does have an answer: he says that moving the island is a last resort, it is risky and it has a price. All of those things seem to be true, so that could be the reason for the delay. Plus I guess they had to get the order from Jacob rather than just moving it on their own authority. Ben didn't exactly rush off to get Jacob's advice -- he could've gotten Hurley to take them while they were killing time in Otherville -- but if Ben knew he'd have to leave the island if he moved it, that could've been another reason he dragged his feet on getting the instructions earlier.

I am very against characters we've come to know and trust all of a sudden becoming evil as it would make every character suspect. Very hard to get invested in a story that way.

What I'm suggesting about C.S is based primarily on the fact that he is dead. This is not the C.S who raised Jack, or the C.S we've seen in FBs. This is an apparition who's existence is yet to be explained. TPTB have told us that at times these apparations have been visions, other times they have been Smokey, etc. So who knows?

Secondly, I'm left without a clue as to why a "real" or "good" C.S would seperate Claire from Aaron. Claire seemed fine until this C.S lured her into the cabin sans Aaron, where she now sits in some trance-like state. I'm having trouble seeing how any of this is good.

Again, I'm with you on being against good person/ bad person switcheroos, but I'm willing to let it slide where the dead are concerned. For now anyway....

people are still referring to Danielles story as the "sickness" surely this is the same thing as the bearings problem....and the fact she was pregnant was the only reason she wasn't affected (hence why Ben valued Alex so high)

[quote=lostorfound;1926740]

Secondly, I'm left without a clue as to why a "real" or "good" C.S would seperate Claire from Aaron. Claire seemed fine until this C.S lured her into the cabin sans Aaron, where she now sits in some trance-like state. I'm having trouble seeing how any of this is good.[quote]

I think that Claire died when she went to sleep out in the jungle. The blast in Otherton didn't kill her immediatey, but it may have caused serious internal injuries (hence her comment to Locke about being tired as they trekked through the jungle) and when she went to sleep that night, she entered into the ranks of the Rest In Peace group. Miles may not have realized that Claire had gone to the other side and since Sawyer didn't ask that question, or Miles is so used to speaking to "ghosts" that he didn't flinch when Claire became one.

So, if Claire did die, then it makes sense that Christian found Aaron a new "mummy" in the form of Kate and to have her do that job off-Island where some very bad things happened while the O6 were gone.

it would make sense for Claire to be in the cabin b/c she's dead and Aaron didn't "belong" there. still, I find it hard to believe that Miles wouldn't pick up on spending the night with a dead person. besides, she wasn't all zombie-like till she got to the cabin.

could be that TPTB are keeping their dead Claire v. alive Claire options open.

it would make sense for Claire to be in the cabin b/c she's dead and Aaron didn't "belong" there. still, I find it hard to believe that Miles wouldn't pick up on spending the night with a dead person. besides, she wasn't all zombie-like till she got to the cabin.

could be that TPTB are keeping their dead Claire v. alive Claire options open.


i've read feelings that Miles did react strange to Claire

i've read feelings that Miles did react strange to Claire
me too, but why would miles not divulge this information? especially with her vanishing like that. you would think that he would say something to hurley and sawyer. he may be a rude person, but i don't think he's a horrible person.

In other thread, we are arriving at the conclusion that Christian might not be really working for Jacob. He is an impostor. He is an opposite force to Jacob. Add that to the fact that Christian started roaming around the island right after the plane crash and, on top of that, his body was never found.....;)
Basically, a force other than Jacob, possessed Christian's body.
Now, Jack is responsible for bringing his dad's body on the plane. So perhaps that is what Locke meant....
Now, the really interesting part comes next...
Locke found out that he had been conned by this other force all along. He also knew that there was only one way to fix this:
This force, represented by Christian, has to be stopped. He is the dark side of the 'game'. Jacob, on the other hand, is the 'light' side. But there is a problem, a big one...
JACOB NEEDS A BODY!!!!
Now, some 30 years ago, Richard was trying to find out if Locke could be a 'host' for Jacob's 'soul'.... Apparently, Locke failed the test....
But now, 30 years later, Locke has finally understood the purpose of his life on the Island.
Knowing that the only way to 'go back' to the right time frame to reach and convience the Oceanic 6 to come back to the island is by turning the wheel again....He decides to sacrifice himself...
Locke is thrown out of the Island, 'landed' in the future....There he adopts the name Jeremy Bentham and then finds the 6 that should ahve never left. He tries to convince them to go back to the island....
Then, he knows there is only one thing left to do...
He needs to DIE. So he ethier commits suicide or have somebody else (Ben) kill him.

Now he just need to be brought back to the island so Jacob's soul can finally possess him. Just like the 'dark force' did with Christian's body....

Two Smoke Monsters? One Christian, the other Jacob?

Two Smoke Monsters? One Christian, the other Jacob?

The only two smoke monsters are cheech and chong. Though cheech is hurley's father....interesting :cool:

me too, but why would miles not divulge this information? especially with her vanishing like that. you would think that he would say something to hurley and sawyer. he may be a rude person, but i don't think he's a horrible person.

Miles frequently doesn't tell all that he knows. Information is power, and his ability to hear information that others cannot is very powerful. He has figured out that the Losties cannot hear the voices of the dead, and in keeping with tradition, he does not share his information. He was still thinking that he'd be getting off the Island and collecting a large sum from Charles Widmore when Claire gets up and walks into the jungle, so he has no incentive to tell Sawyer (or any of the beachies). If he's going to tell anyone, it would be Charlotte. And he seems to know things about her, too, things he doesn't reveal, so I'm thinking it's not a stretch to say that Miles would NOT tell anyone if Claire had gone all ghosty in the middle of the night.


BTW, we had an episode this season titled The Shape of Things to Come. In that episode we see Smokey in a way we have not, ancient glyphs, and the Widmore plot to retake the Island which included the clause that no one was exempt from being brutally killed (Alex plus various Red Shirts) to accomplish that plot. Perhaps that episode title was the clue to what to look for to match up the "some very bad things happened" quote, yes?

I'm not convinced Claire is dead. I don't find that she was in a trance like state in the cabin, she simply seemed calm, relaxed.

You make a pretty good case for moving the island to keep Aaron from returning, as opposed to hiding from Widmore or trying to avoid the freighties. But when Hurley asks Ben why he didn't move the island earlier to avoid the baddies, Ben does have an answer: he says that moving the island is a last resort, it is risky and it has a price.

I am absolutely positive that Benjamin wanted the mercs to come, because he was sure he could deal with them, and definitely wanted to keep the innocent people alive (yes, A FACT, no bad guy, no nothing, he did want that), so that someone could report back to Widmore that Benjamin was the master of puppets and that he should not send any more... However, we saw something going beyond horribly wrong when Alex was murdered by the same mercs Benjamin thought harmless... Then the rules changed, and he realized he had to do something genuinely extreme... That's as far as the moving goes...


As for everything else, I think the most important question is (not because I am a Benjamin fan, I don't need you guys for that)- WHY is Ben supposed to make everything about the Island "good and solid" again? WHO is that entity that banished him, and why is he not speaking for himself, and what does that other CS entity have to di with him AT ALL??? WHAT is that war Benjamin is waging (not Penelope, don't be childish), and for what cause, if he is truly never su