Very sad moment.

Unless by some miracle he survived...

You never know with this amazing show...

Really got to hand it to Yunjin Kim for the excellent performance... I really felt the pain Sun must have felt at that point. Beautiful - sad.

Really got to hand it to Yunjin Kim for the excellent performance... I really felt the pain Sun must have felt at that point. Beautiful - sad.

Yes, horribly horribly sad. After all they went through together...and then he was just gone. :frown:

I'm going to stand on my stubborn box and say that he may not be dead yet. We didn't get a slow action shot of him looking at the explosion behind him and then him looking up at his wife. I think his death would call for something like that.

No wonder Sun said, "We are in shock, Jack."
I think Jin will survive the explosion. He was already up on deck and running towards the back of the boat, so maybe the concussion pitched him overboard.
Now Michael, that's another story.

I'm really really hoping that he jumped before the bomb went off and someone survived. The whole scene was awful and made me sick to my stomach.

Yeah, I'm in denial. I agree that it seems like we would have seen more of his last minutes if it's true that he's gone. Ugh....he's gotta be alive!

If he is alive I wonder if anyone will find him since the island is no longer there. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out he survived later on and he surprises Sun. That would be an awesome scene!

He could be alive.

But Sun certainly doesn't believe it when she is home in Korea. Hence the grave crying.

Although... what else would she want to go back for? Could someone be haunting her as well, telling her that Jin is alive?

Anyway, her screams were gut wrenching. Those were the most painful scenes to watch. Yunjin did an amazing job throughout the whole episode.

While it certainly looked like the end for Jin, he may be alive. If, like Michael before him--and apparently others (like Tom and Jack)--if Jin still has more work to do, the island may prevent his death, no matter how unlikely.

Yunjin Kim was incredible in that scene. I will miss the character of Jin. I'm glad we got that final scene with him and Michael. Those characters took one strange trip together.

Gutwrenching, but realistic and powerfully done. Kudos to Yunjin Kim.

And its possible he jumped off.. but I think unlikely. I have the same concern as with Dan. Even if they are both out there floating in the water... the island is gone. Where are they gonna go?

More importantly, did Penny's boat actually scan around the ocean and look for anyone else who survived? Surely they knew that Dan was "in transit"?

Maybe we will see a continuation of that next season.

I'm jumping on board the denial boat. He had time to jump off the side of the boat, right? :frown:

The thought of no more Jin in Lost is far too depressing for me to accept!

Hopefully Penny's boat will find Daniel and Jin and the rest that were between the island and the freighter.

Yeah, I'm hoping that Dan's raft found Jin as well.

Maybe Jack was right and the Hydra didn't move with Craphole Island...

Ambiguous deaths are starting to get old. So is he really dead? If he is that was a really good death scene. I feel really bad for Sun.

I wouldn't see why we wouldn't think he was dead. I mean it couldn't get any more clear cut than that I think. We didn't see any after scene of him in the water or anything. So I surely got the impression that he is dead.

That was so extremely sad. I don't blame them for not gong back for JIn, it was the right thing to do. Sun sure was screaming her heart or for him thought, that was tragic beyond a doubt.

I'm hoping that he grabbed a life vest and bailed and made it at least to Daniel life boat. I sure don't want him to be dead.

he's definitely not dead. as a rule; if they're not shown dieing on screen, then they are not dead. just like when sayid, jin, and bernard were "shot" by tom in the season three finale. that was not shown on screen, and they turned out to be very much alive. and yes, we did see the explosion, but we did not see it's effect on jin.

I would'nt be the least bit surprised if he's floating in the middle of nowhere on some debris alive and well. He appeared to be standing towards the end of the ship, while the explosion clearly came from the middle of the ship.... the explosion could've easily thrown him into the water. I was surprised to see Keamy come out of no where after he was shot 5 times in the back......

he's survived an exploding boat in a season finale before!

Jin is dead.

Jin is dead.
Why? Or, are you above elaborating?

Jen - in season 5 we will find out.

I think Sun will be all into her revenge plans and seeing them through when surprise! Jin
is alive after all, and she will have to face the things she did thinking he wasn't.

Why? Or, are you above elaborating?

If there were survivors then Penny's boat would've picked them up. Period.

If there were survivors then Penny's boat would've picked them up. Period.
That's kinda silly. Mostly because the writers then wouldn't have the proper storyline to create Sun's new "drive" and badass attitude. Ha!

I actually don't know what I believe concerning Jin's fate yet, but if I did have a theory I certainly wouldn't go around with some eBullhorn announcing my guesses as fact. I guess if you say "Period." you win though. However, I believe it was left ambiguous for a reason. Period.

(Plus: I can't stop thinking about how the writers have set up Charlotte and Jin... it might've been for a lot more than just "now we know Dan and Charlotte like each other." Potentially, Jin has a new on-island translator...)

I don't believe he died in the explosion, but I wonder if he was able to swim to the island--or to the place where the island sucked people up (like Dan) and took them--in time for him to go with the island. Doesn't seem he had the time to get to "safety."

I'm hoping that he grabbed a life vest and bailed and made it at least to Daniel life boat. I sure don't want him to be dead.

Same here. :undecide:

Well, I say, "watch it again". It was crystal clear to me and everyone on that helicopter except for Sun, who was grasping at hope, that everyone on that boat perished. That baby went down fast, and the explosion was huge. The boat was nowhere near the area where teh island disappeared. Jin is dead. Its not unusual. Sun has given us every indication in her flashforwards that she believes Jin is dead, adn she would be the last one to give up hope.

Jin's alive.

Jin was on the front of the boat when the explosion rocked the center of it, so he probably was thrown straight off the boat by the blast wave. Was that enough to kill him... In the real world, probably. But, who knows with Lost.

I think the boat went down outside the island's influence (since the helicopter was heading for the island when the island disapeered). So I'm guessing he's probably dead.

It would be hard to believe anyone could've survived the explosion on the boat... except could anyone have survived the explosion of The Swan? Because everyone inside did manage to survive... and in the 1st season finale when the raft was destroyed Jin did get to the tailies and I don't think that was ever fully explained. I guess there probably isn't much to tell and that logic would dictate that Jin is gone... however, given the events of this program... I doubt we can rule out anything, even Michael's almost assured death, until it is shown in the show to be true.

I'm hoping that he grabbed a life vest and bailed and made it at least to Daniel life boat. I sure don't want him to be dead.

I feel the same way. I keep hoping that he'll show up next season and say he jumped off the boat before it exploded. :)

I'm going to have to go with Jin is Dead...
Because even if he survived the explosion..
Where could he go?
The island disappeared.. Where is he swimming to?
I think he is a goner .. Including the People on on Daniel's life boat..
They are stranded in the middle of the ocean..
They are all Dead...

Well, I say, "watch it again". It was crystal clear to me and everyone on that helicopter except for Sun, who was grasping at hope, that everyone on that boat perished. That baby went down fast, and the explosion was huge. The boat was nowhere near the area where teh island disappeared. Jin is dead. Its not unusual. Sun has given us every indication in her flashforwards that she believes Jin is dead, adn she would be the last one to give up hope.


As "crystal clear" as it was that Jin died after the raft explosion? Or that Charlie died after being hung by Ethan? Or that Shannon was killed by the smoke monster in Boone's hallucination? Or that Keamy was killed by Alpert?

It's not "crystal clear." Even SEEING the deaths isn't crystal clear on this show. So why be so adamant when we didn't even get that?

I'm going to have to go with Jin is Dead...
Because even if he survived the explosion..
Where could he go?
The island disappeared.. Where is he swimming to?
I think he is a goner .. Including the People on on Daniel's life boat..
They are stranded in the middle of the ocean..
They are all Dead...

Just the one island was moved correct? Isn't othersville still there? Is it possible he could have swam there?

Just the one island was moved correct? Isn't othersville still there? Is it possible he could have swam there?

Frank said that all land was gone, even after Jack said that there was another, smaller island.

Frank said that all land was gone, even after Jack said that there was another, smaller island.

Maybe Frank "thought" all the land was gone but his radar was off. ;)

I know it sure looked bad, but I don't think we can count him out just yet.

I dont think so. I truly believe he will be reunited with Sun once they get back to the island.

Case in point, Jin is a beast, if he did manage to survive on floating debris he would be unable to contact sun or anyone else because he will blow the 6's cover and get killed by whidmore. im giving it a 75% chance he is alive, i mean, where did all the life vest guys on the boat go? they had to have had a boat or something, even with the shockwave and the time between when it exploded and when we saw them running, they could have gotten a boat far enough to not die, Jin may have been able to get on their raft. Or the shockwave tore them all apart and Jin is next in line for some ghost scenes.

I think Sun will be all into her revenge plans and seeing them through when surprise! Jin
is alive after all, and she will have to face the things she did thinking he wasn't.

Woman on Fire?

I wish it wasn't so, but I think Jin is dead. It sucks because, there goes my favorite character. Again. They love to kill them off.

I'm saying this not based on the trends and history of the show, but on the idea that the writers cannot take a moment with such a cathartic effect (two times, one tonight, and the second time when sun said goodbye at his grave). sure, i can believe that jin wil come back, but that to me would spell out COP OUT. What's the point of Jin coming back? Really? I could see Sun reuniting with him and feeling horrible about the things she's done for revenge, but is that really all that compelling? I feel watching Sun become the new Beatrice Kiddo to be FAR MORE interesting than seeing a cop-out ending with her reuniting with a dead Jin.

I'm saying this not based on the trends and history of the show, but on the idea that the writers cannot take a moment with such a cathartic effect (two times, one tonight, and the second time when sun said goodbye at his grave). sure, i can believe that jin wil come back, but that to me would spell out COP OUT. What's the point of Jin coming back? Really? I could see Sun reuniting with him and feeling horrible about the things she's done for revenge, but is that really all that compelling? I feel watching Sun become the new Beatrice Kiddo to be FAR MORE interesting than seeing a cop-out ending with her reuniting with a dead Jin.

I COMPLETELY agree, & I thought this as I was reading some of these responses. People want a happy ending, even at the sacrifice of any integrity the show's writing has left. Sure, it might make us FEEL better that Jin is alive, but what would that say about the show? It would be terrible writing, period. It would make Lost a bad soap opera.

Jin is alive,,and Locke has told Sun.

I COMPLETELY agree, & I thought this as I was reading some of these responses. People want a happy ending, even at the sacrifice of any integrity the show's writing has left. Sure, it might make us FEEL better that Jin is alive, but what would that say about the show? It would be terrible writing, period. It would make Lost a bad soap opera.

Lost is already a soap opera and has sacrificed integrity with the whole Sawyer and Kate mess. This show needs some characters that are genuinely happy. I would love it if Jin were alive and eventually reunited with Sun. :biggrin:

Maybe Frank "thought" all the land was gone but his radar was off. ;)

They could see the original island when they were at Othersville. They saw the island disappear meaning they would have also been able to see the other island, either way there wasn't enough gas to get to the other island since it was most likely farther away than the original island.

They could see the original island when they were at Othersville. They saw the island disappear meaning they would have also been able to see the other island, either way there wasn't enough gas to get to the other island since it was most likely farther away than the original island.

I know. :) I'm just grasping at straws, because I really don't want Jin to be dead.

Lost is already a soap opera and has sacrificed integrity with the whole Sawyer and Kate mess. This show needs some characters that are genuinely happy. I would love it if Jin were alive and eventually reunited with Sun. :biggrin:

What about Bernard and Rose? They may be old but they make my heart all warm when they had their own episodes.:)

What about Bernard and Rose? They may be old but they make my heart all warm when they had their own episodes.:)

Hey, Bernard and Rose works for me ;). I love those two. :biggrin:

The real question is whether or not Michael is dead... The island won't let him die, I'm thinking it's similar to Jin, considering neither are one of the six. Dead? no, Stuck in island time? yes

The real question is whether or not Michael is dead... The island won't let him die, I'm thinking it's similar to Jin, considering neither are one of the six. Dead? no, Stuck in island time? yes

Christian Shepherd "let him go"..
I think it's official that Mike's gone Boom...

I hope Jin went with him. If not he'll get eaten by sharks.
Then again....

Isnt Daniel Faraday out there on a raft? Maybe he finds him
and the float to safety. (Liked them both and I still feel
Farady's story has lots to be told. Dont think they'll let his
plot drop dead just like that.)

**

Christian Shepherd "let him go"..
I think it's official that Mike's gone Boom...

I hope Jin went with him. If not he'll get eaten by sharks.
Then again....

Isnt Daniel Faraday out there on a raft? Maybe he finds him
and the float to safety. (Liked them both and I still feel
Farady's story has lots to be told. Dont think they'll let his
plot drop dead just like that.)

**

Agreed.
And it depends on how the story ultimately ends once the O6 make their way back to the island. Something has to be completed or fulfilled if it's necessary for all of them to go back, including Locke. Maybe time will reset or something will happen so that the whole thing gets a big do-over and all of the dead are alive again. We don't know. . . . yet.

I'm hoping that he jumped off the boat before it blew and somehow made it to Daniel on the zodiac and they got transported with the island.

Lost is a bad soap opera and Jin is alive.

Does everyone remember Doc Ray? Alive on the freighter, washed up dead on shore? I do think Jin died in that explosion, or drowned, but his body then floated into the bubble containing the two islands and Dan's raft, still out there with a bunch of redshirts on it (for an obvious plot reason). Next season will show Dan finding Jin alive in the ocean after they have all moved with the island and he will be alive. The island moves through both time and space. Dan will rescue Jin and they will all return to shore. Predicable yes, a cheat of the emotion we saw, you bet, but there it is. Jin's alive.

I honestly think he is alive. They still left way too in the air. And if he isn't I think he would be at the top of the list for a ghost that would visit Sun.

I really hope Jin isn't dead.

They really went to great lengths, though to make the explosion look huge... and it even rocked the heli. Soooo, we see Jin waving on the deck...then we see boat go boom merely a short time later...he probably is dead. BUT I HOPE HE'S NOT!

I'm going to have to go with Jin is Dead...
Because even if he survived the explosion..
Where could he go?
The island disappeared.. Where is he swimming to?
I think he is a goner .. Including the People on on Daniel's life boat..
They are stranded in the middle of the ocean..
They are all Dead...

As i said in another post, those peoeple either HAVE to be dead OR they got taken when the island left. Remember the sat phones? things traveling above the influence of distortions weren't really affected (save Desmond of course). What if the copter was too high to be affected and thus they stayed and all else got sucked away? Hell... i sure as hell didnt see any wreckage of the boat still smoking, nor daniel's boat which couldnt have been THAT far since Juliet could see the boat from the mainland by then...

I think they all got taken wherever the island went... Dan will find some survivors (a bunch of dead redhsirts and Jin hangin on) and probably get back to the island. If they were not taken w/the island, why didnt Penny's boat find them? They could have searched... wouldnt they? I would think Dan woulda also seen Pennys' boat too if Jack & Co did. ANd if they are alive, they cant stay for long bc if they get home too, well there goes the O6 coverup right out the window... hehe.

I expect Season 5 will be quite interesting, to say the least....

I won't give up hope that Jin is alive. Perhaps Christian intervened and somehow evacuated Jin to safety before the explosion. *hopes*

I'm hoping that he jumped off the boat before it blew and somehow made it to Daniel on the zodiac and they got transported with the island.

I hope so too. Or maybe Dan has some ideas about how to join the disappeared island by using some weird bearing to get to where it used to be or something. He does seem to know more about the workings of the island than just about anyone but Ben and Richard.

I have hope for Jin. He was running toward the chopper pad when the ship blew, so almost off the freighter -- he could have jumped or been blown clear. It is conceivable he could make it to Dan's boat, and I would be really really surprised if they wrote out Dan at this point. So if Dan can make it to next season, so could Jin.

Lost is a bad soap opera and Jin is alive.

Does everyone remember Doc Ray? Alive on the freighter, washed up dead on shore? I do think Jin died in that explosion, or drowned, but his body then floated into the bubble containing the two islands and Dan's raft, still out there with a bunch of redshirts on it (for an obvious plot reason). Next season will show Dan finding Jin alive in the ocean after they have all moved with the island and he will be alive. The island moves through both time and space. Dan will rescue Jin and they will all return to shore. Predicable yes, a cheat of the emotion we saw, you bet, but there it is. Jin's alive.

Not a cheat, it would be sweet!

(*sorry, couldn't resist)

Though I did wonder if once the O6 return (what? season 6, you don't say?!?!) with dead Locke, if Locke would be reanimated a la Christian.

So...reanimated Christian- dead body landed on island. Could be a reanimated Jin. Though, also, seeing as how Sawyer once made it back to the island with a bullet wound, floating on debris- and Jin also somehow swam back to the island- and also because Jin was probably the one person on the freighter far enough away from the blast (he was nearest the copter), he would be the most likely to survive, and could be alive in the water, still able to swim back.

Though...that last shot of the oil swirling in the ocean...looks kinda bleak. Sun believes he's dead.

Well...since Hurley seems to be the one O6er on good terms with Sun, maybe the next time he talks to Charlie or Mr. Eko he can ask about Jin and relay the message? :biggrin:

I definitely see it being possible that he was able to jump overboard when the explosion happened. He was extremely close to the edge and the blast came from that central location. I think he has a good chance of surviving the explosion but hopefully he can find Daniel and the raft of somehow swim all the way to shore. It will be a mystery until next season.

I thought the scene in helicoptor with Sun screaming was one of the most dramatic and gut wrenching moments I have ever seen on a television show. Excellent acting! She made us truely believe she had just lost the love of her life and soul mate. I cried and cried watching that scene. Jin just has to be alive!:redface:

As "crystal clear" as it was that Jin died after the raft explosion? Or that Charlie died after being hung by Ethan? Or that Shannon was killed by the smoke monster in Boone's hallucination? Or that Keamy was killed by Alpert?

It's not "crystal clear." Even SEEING the deaths isn't crystal clear on this show. So why be so adamant when we didn't even get that?

I saw it. The Losties saw it. I'm sorry you didn't see it.
100%
I think he has a good chance of surviving the explosion but hopefully he can find Daniel and the raft of somehow swim all the way to shore. It will be a mystery until next season.

The shore is gone. And if Jin happened to be alive, and Daniel is alive in the raft, and they are still in the vicinity of where the island was, how come Penny's boat didn't come to rescue them?

I am not insensitive at all, but I just didn't feel that sad during that scene. I don't know why, maybe because I was prepared for the worst with him already since Sun believes him to be dead. I sure hope he isn't.

C'mon... Jin's alive. He's totally got experience at surviving nautical explosions (season 1 finale, the raft!?!?)

Not dead!!

I say Jin is alive. It's not confirmed that he died, and wouldn't it be great, the moment when Sun and Jin are reunited. That will be wonderful.

Sun has given us every indication in her flashforwards that she believes Jin is dead, adn she would be the last one to give up hope.
Sun doesn't know anything more about Jin's fate than the audience at this point. My gut tells me he's alive. He'll probably float ashore like he did at the start of S2, or be picked up by Daniel.

On another thread, a theory began with someone other than myself, I wish I could remember who, then I continued with it, and any of you are invited to help bring it to its conclusion.

Remember Dr Ray showed up on shore a day or so before he died?

Jin jumps or gets blown off the boat. he survives the blast, and makes it to shore a day or so before the boat explodes. Doc Ray did it, why not Jin?

I'm just saying///

Jack did look down and told Sun that he saw no one alive.

I agree. I watched that scene again and when Sun is looking down onto the freighter as it begins to blow, I don't see Jin where he had been, right at the edge of it yelling for them to come back. I'm hoping that he jumped into the water as he had fallen into the water in the 1st season finale and survived. I know it was a big blast, but I'm just hoping.

He could be alive.

But Sun certainly doesn't believe it when she is home in Korea. Hence the grave crying.

Although... what else would she want to go back for?


Sun is hellbent on revenge, and I believe she has Ben in her sights. In all of her flashforwards she has shown us that she believes Jin is dead. She has also shown us how determined she is to get revenge on those responsible for his death.

On another thread, a theory began with someone other than myself, I wish I could remember who, then I continued with it, and any of you are invited to help bring it to its conclusion.

Remember Dr Ray showed up on shore a day or so before he died?

Jin jumps or gets blown off the boat. he survives the blast, and makes it to shore a day or so before the boat explodes. Doc Ray did it, why not Jin?

I'm just saying///

That's a fantastic idea!!! SO he could have gotten there BEFORE the island warped away!

Sun doesn't know anything more about Jin's fate than the audience at this point.

I think a certain portion of the audience is in pretty severe denial of the fact that they saw everyone on the freighter get killed last night.

The shore is gone. And if Jin happened to be alive, and Daniel is alive in the raft, and they are still in the vicinity of where the island was, how come Penny's boat didn't come to rescue them?
I already told you why Penny's boat didn't rescue them - from a storytelling perspective - and you failed to respond. If you want another reason, we don't know for how long the O6, Frank, and Desmond floated (or how far off-coarse they floated) in that life raft. Ok?!?! It's ambiguous and ambiguous for a reason. Like I said before, I don't have a real opinion yet.

I already told you why Penny's boat didn't rescue them - from a storytelling perspective - and you failed to respond. If you want another reason, we don't know for how long the O6, Frank, and Desmond floated (or how far off-coarse they floated) in that life raft. Ok?!?! It's ambiguous and ambiguous for a reason. Like I said before, I don't have a real opinion yet.

Didn't see your earlier thing, but I'll explain it to ya. If Jin was bobbing in the water near where the freighter went down, Penny's boat would've been there right away to pick him up. Penny knew where the freighter was, remember? That's why her boat was there, because she got the coordinates from Desmond's phone call. And even though the freighter had moved a ways from where it was, she still had Desmond on board to explain that they needed to head out on a bearing of 305 to find the freighter's remains, as well as the island. If Frank's raft had actually floated a long distance away, then I guess the amazing thing would be that Penny found them at all.

Love it Lost Ed, that would make so much sense. This could also explain that Michael is probably alive too...Hurley to Walt: We are lying to protect the one that stayed behing, like your father. Maybe Jeremy Bentham visited Sun and told her about Jin...that's why she wants to go back. Maybe she gets in touch with Widmore to see if he knows where the island is...he found it before, he can find it again.

I feel the same way. I keep hoping that he'll show up next season and say he jumped off the boat before it exploded. :)
An explosion that powerful, Jin couldn't survive even if he had jumped. He would have also had to swim far enough away from the boat. Otherwise that explosion would have knocked him unconscious (at least) and he would drown. Desmond said there was enough explosive to blow up an aircraft carrier. Jin couldn't survive a nearby explosion like that, even if he had jumped. And he didn't have enough time to swim far away.

We've read too much about the sinkings of big ships. When they explode and sink, it can be fatal even for those folks who had already jumped overboard into the water without life vests. Go read about some of the action in the Atlantic during World War II.

Well, we left Michael in the bomb room with Christian's death blessing. So he'll wash up in itty bitty pieces...(eeeww)

Call me stubborn, but I'm thinking that the writers would give us a better "goodbye" to this character that they've took so long to develop and give a back story to, rather than just seeing the boat explode and leaving us to assume he's dead. The writers have been pretty good about including a death scene for most characters (Mr. Ecko, Libby and Ana Lucia, Charlie, Boone, Shannon, etc.). I'm hoping that if Sun does ever make it back to the island, we'll get a Sun/Jin reunion. But then again, I'm still in denial about Charlie. I mean, we never did actually see his dead body. . . Right? RIGHT?! :rolleyes:

Btw, excellent acting by Yunjin.

There was a shot of the freighter just before it exploded and Jin was nowhere to be seen. Remember he was on deck running toward the helicopter a moment before.

Now this was probably a practical matter to protect the actors and stunt people from the explosion (why have risk someone for an instantaneous glimpse before an explosion?) but it could be that Jin somehow manages to escape the explosion.

I also thought Christian's cryptic comment to Michael was curious, was he relieving Michael of his guilt or helping him escape the explosion?

I love the theories Lost Ed and NateTut--I guess we will have to wait it out to see what happens next season. He knew the boat was going to blow, so he could have jumped at the last second. He just swam back to shore when the raft exploded in the first season. I think also that Daniel's boat could have picked him out of the water. If "Alcatraz" vanished along with the main island, then it is reasonable to say whatever boats/people within close range to the shore could have gone too. They love to leave things pretty wide open in the finale, you know? Who would have thought that Des and John would have survived the hatch detination, but they did. I am going to have hope that Jin will be okay with so many possible scenarios and so little concrete fact.

I'm with Jin being alive and picked off by Daniel in the Zodiac, to where, well the Hydra looks good. Whichs brings another point, was that sub-island that Jack mentioned really part of the island?. Remember the polar bear at the desert, that could have been an Island appendix of the "last move". November looks far now.

There was a shot of the freighter just before it exploded and Jin was nowhere to be seen. Remember he was on deck running toward the helicopter a moment before.

Now this was probably a practical matter to protect the actors and stunt people from the explosion (why have risk someone for an instantaneous glimpse before an explosion?) but it could be that Jin somehow manages to escape the explosion.


That shot of the freighter was computer-generated, and it was odd that there was NOONE on deck.

I love the theories Lost Ed and NateTut--I guess we will have to wait it out to see what happens next season. He knew the boat was going to blow, so he could have jumped at the last second. He just swam back to shore when the raft exploded in the first season. I think also that Daniel's boat could have picked him out of the water. If "Alcatraz" vanished along with the main island, then it is reasonable to say whatever boats/people within close range to the shore could have gone too. They love to leave things pretty wide open in the finale, you know? Who would have thought that Des and John would have survived the hatch detination, but they did. I am going to have hope that Jin will be okay with so many possible scenarios and so little concrete fact.

I think that Jin is still alive. At least I'm really hoping that he is alive. I mean it is possible that he could have jumped off the freighter before it exploded. And then he could have been picked up by Daniel in the zodiac. I also think that whatever was in the vicinity of the Island also moved with the Island.

that's a really good idea ed. i hope it pans out too. i really like Jin and he'd be a big asset on the island.

also, where was Faraday and the Zodiac by the time the ship blew? could Jin have dived off the ship and Daniel find him..they are both on the way to the island when the 'incident' happened? Close enough to go with it?

I really think Jin, who was at the end of the ship, went into the water, either by the force of the explosion or he jumped into the water... Daniel will probably find him and together, they will search for the mobile island...

Did anyone notice Jack saying, 'Sun blames me...' but then trailing off into something about Kate? Sun blames Jack for... telling her Jin was gone? Not somehow forcing Frank to fly back and check?

Anyway, I'm on the denial boat as well. I really hope Jin survived somehow. I took his grave to be an official sign that he died, but I have some hope after last night. I agree that if he really did die, it should've been more obvious than a distant shot of an explosion. I think they want us to assume he didn't make it, while leaving open the possibility that he did... or, I hope at least. :undecide:

Well, it was Jack yelling to her that they couldn't go back. Jack is the leader and she blames him.

Didn't see your earlier thing, but I'll explain it to ya. If Jin was bobbing in the water near where the freighter went down, Penny's boat would've been there right away to pick him up. Penny knew where the freighter was, remember? That's why her boat was there, because she got the coordinates from Desmond's phone call. And even though the freighter had moved a ways from where it was, she still had Desmond on board to explain that they needed to head out on a bearing of 305 to find the freighter's remains, as well as the island. If Frank's raft had actually floated a long distance away, then I guess the amazing thing would be that Penny found them at all.

The freighter, debris and possible bodies could have moved with the island so Penny wouldn't be able to find it or anyone near it even if she stayed on the 305 bearing. There is support for the proposition that the freighter would have moved with the island- the freighter was at a different time when the doctor died and when it was farther off from shore. If the freighter was at a different time when Keamy's died off isn't it possible/probable that there would have been a delay or something between Keamy's death and the freighter exploding? But the freighter was much closer to shore. So, if the freighter were in the "island zone" that moved, the freighter would have been on the same timeline as the island and the freighter would have exploded when Keamy died on the island, just like it appeared to. Which means Daniels raft probably would have been on that timeline too. The helicopter may not have moved with everything because it was already flying at that point. And I didn't see the freighter wreckage anywhere when the helicopter was crashing and they were panning out ocean views all around.

I'm not saying Jin's alive- I'm just saying I don't think that the theory that Penny would have found them and she didn't means that he's dead.

On another thread, a theory began with someone other than myself, I wish I could remember who, then I continued with it, and any of you are invited to help bring it to its conclusion.

Remember Dr Ray showed up on shore a day or so before he died?

Jin jumps or gets blown off the boat. he survives the blast, and makes it to shore a day or so before the boat explodes. Doc Ray did it, why not Jin?

I'm just saying///

I don't know if that would work out though. I think that the boat was close enough to the island that the time lapse was gone. The only reason I think this is because when Keamy died that same moment the bomb light turned red.

I am 99% sure that Jin is not dead.

I saw it. The Losties saw it. I'm sorry you didn't see it.


Unless you stopped the show and magnified the image of the freighter to the point where you could see Jin dead, you didn't see it, either. You're making an assumption.


I think a certain portion of the audience is in pretty severe denial of the fact that they saw everyone on the freighter get killed last night.


And I think a certain member of the audience is in pretty severe denial of the fact that we didn't see anyone get killed, we only saw the freighter explode. Obviously people died, but that's only an inference. And assigning the deaths, as you're doing, is even more of an inference.


Didn't see your earlier thing, but I'll explain it to ya. If Jin was bobbing in the water near where the freighter went down, Penny's boat would've been there right away to pick him up. Penny knew where the freighter was, remember?


Maybe in a world where "right away" means "much much later that night."


Jin couldn't survive a nearby explosion like that, even if he had jumped.


Two words: Swan Station.

I'm going to have to go with Jin is Dead...
Because even if he survived the explosion..
Where could he go?
The island disappeared.. Where is he swimming to?
I think he is a goner .. Including the People on on Daniel's life boat..
They are stranded in the middle of the ocean..
They are all Dead...

The people on Daniel's boat went with the island. We saw and heard the "electromagnetic exotic matter space-time event" emanating from within the island enveloping Locke and the Others first, enveloping Sawyer and Juliette right after, then a good several seconds later enveloping Daniel and his passengers, then stopping just short of the helicopter. It didn't show where the freighter debris was in relation to that, but we certainly got the impression that there was nothing left around them afterwards. Neither they, nor Penny's boat ever tried looking back through the wreckage, as it wasn't there. So I if there were any survivors of the explosion, I think they went with the island.

If there were survivors then Penny's boat would've picked them up. Period.

See above.

Just the one island was moved correct? Isn't othersville still there? Is it possible he could have swam there?

No, they specifically pointed out that the smaller islands were gone too. But if he's alive, he's wherever they are.

Isnt Daniel Faraday out there on a raft? Maybe he finds him
and the float to safety. (Liked them both and I still feel
Farady's story has lots to be told. Dont think they'll let his
plot drop dead just like that.)

Yeah, I'm glad that Dan isn't going to be stuck off the island and separated from Charlotte. I think they both have a lot of story to tell.

The shore is gone. And if Jin happened to be alive, and Daniel is alive in the raft, and they are still in the vicinity of where the island was, how come Penny's boat didn't come to rescue them?
Because Penny's boat was never in the vicinity of where the island was. If she had gotten there sooner, should would have been. "Vicinity" is a relative term, you know.

I think a certain portion of the audience is in pretty severe denial of the fact that they saw everyone on the freighter get killed last night.

My denial must be stronger than average, because I didn't see a single person on the freighter get killed. I'm assuming that the vast majority of people still on board were killed, and I think it would be preposterous if the vast majority were not killed -- but the way I understand it, seeing and assuming are vastly different processes.

Penny knew where the freighter was, remember? That's why her boat was there, because she got the coordinates from Desmond's phone call. And even though the freighter had moved a ways from where it was, she still had Desmond on board to explain that they needed to head out on a bearing of 305 to find the freighter's remains, as well as the island. If Frank's raft had actually floated a long distance away, then I guess the amazing thing would be that Penny found them at all.

The ship's original coordinates, which Penny was tracking, was 40+ miles off the island. The ship then moved into the distorted space-time surrounding the island, along the 305 degree bearing. The helmsman was intending to get within 5 miles of it. By the time Penny got there, that space-time was distorting in a completely different direction. 305 degrees would have been completely meaningless then. There was nothing there but empty ocean that was nowhere with any kind of spatial relationship to the island or any of the things around it.
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I wouldn't see why we wouldn't think he was dead. I mean it couldn't get any more clear cut than that I think. We didn't see any after scene of him in the water or anything. So I surely got the impression that he is dead.

That was so extremely sad. I don't blame them for not gong back for JIn, it was the right thing to do. Sun sure was screaming her heart or for him thought, that was tragic beyond a doubt.

With all the emotional investment in Jin being dead, I do hope he is dead from a storytelling point of view. However, I think it is completely ambiguous if he is or not. He was standing out on the helipad, and the explosion we saw didn't reach that far. It probably killed him, but we don't really know.

I don't quite agree that because we didn't see him alive in the water, it couldn't get any more clear cut that he is dead. I think, for example, it would be more clear cut if they had shown his charred body floating in the water. ;)

I guess were gonna have to wait till S5 to find out. Michael sadly died, but besides him and Jin there was no prominent characters, exept for minor freighties (Jeff and Hendrics) and minor survivors. Daniel's fate isn't too clear for me too, but I'm pretty sure he's alive.

I think Jin is alive, based on the premise that we didn't see him dead, and that TPTB want us to think he is dead so he prob isn't.

Oh and Dan is alive, YAY, he watched the purple sky island vanishing ocean ripple.

Although Locke is dead in the future, I think he will be in the show until the S6 finale, where we will get to see how he dies.

Based on Lapidus' statement that there was nothing around for the helicopter to land on - just nothing but ocean - then I think it stands to reason that the other island was also affected by the frozen donkey wheel event as it too has disappeared. Extrapolating from that, if an object such as the other island could also get 'sucked in' with The Island, then so too might other objects in the immediate vicinity 'of influence' - this would include Daniel and the Zodiac speedboat as well as the freighter ... or at least what still remained of it at the time of event.

That's just my speculation as to what I think actually happened to the surrounding areas after the Island disappeared. I don't think that Faraday and the remains of the freighter would have been left behind - because if that were the case, then the other island should also have remained behind and the helicopter would have another option at where to land. Another possibility is that if Daniel in particular were also left behind, it would be plausible that they would have witnessed the helicopter crashing into the ocean the way it did. They were in the general vicinity - so I imagine that Daniel could have swung the Zodiac around and at least investigate the crash site to see if there were any survivors. But as it panned out, Dan doesn't show up to assist Frank, Des, and the Oceanic 6.

Hence, I'm siding with the notion that this most recent Island event affected all things on the ocean - the Island itself, the other island, Dan and the Zodiac, and perhaps anything having to do with what remained of the freighter. This would also plausibly explain why Penny only came to find just the helicopter group in their raft. She may not have seen anything of the freighter, but just as significantly, she also doesn't encounter some Zodiac boat aimlessly speeding about in the same general area. It also goes to follow that with all the time elapsed drifting around on the raft, the helicopter group never did find that other island. Based on these basic observations, maybe it is just the logical conclusion that all these things disappeared right along with the island.

Now, having said that, I think acceptance of these parameters at least leaves open the possibility that Jin could have survived the freighter explosion. As powerful an explosion it was, it's not beyond TPTB to use dramatic license in later portraying Jin miraculously jumping overboard in the nick of time and perhaps being submerged underwater at a time he would have avoided the most intense heat of the blast. Improbable? Perhaps, but again we are just dealing with a fictional show that can use a bit of dramatic license here and there to help suspend disbelief. In any event, Jin could have either had a life vest already handy or pulled a Rose from the Titanic and survived on some floating freighter debris out on the open ocean for some time. After that, his method of survival could have played out in a number of different ways. He could have remained afloat until the tide brought him close enough to the island where he could pull a Sawyer and manage to swim his way back; or, and more probably, Dan and the Zodiac would sweep on by and pick him up. They were on their way to the freighter in the first place, remember? So it stands to reason that even with such a dramatic explosion, Dan would still proceed towards the smoke in the off-chance that there could be survivors. Besides, given his current frame of mind, Dan had no intention of turning back to the Island he was so desperately wanting to get away from. Unfortunately, I'm thinking that he wasn't able to get away far enough.

Of course, this entire scenario above is predicated on the speculation that all things Island and nearby were all affected by Ben's frozen donkey wheel stunt.

ETA:
Another thing to also consider - if Jin is dead, the helicopter group initially believed that Jin is dead, and Sun has later grown to accept it begrudgingly ....then why the motivation by Sun to first take over daddy's company - and then moreover, seek out Widmore and hint at working with him in trying to find the Island? If her motives were purely out of revenge, certainly there would be other ways for her to act out her retribution than to manifest it in needing to go back and find the Island. Certainly, something along the way tipped her off about something and it was that something which was compelling enough for her to methodically amass wealth and power to have the means in mounting a search for the island. I'm thinking that her motivation is the notion that Jin is somehow still alive and well on the Island. If not for this sole reason, can there be any other more compelling reason specifically affecting Sun that would see her so motivated in finding the Island again?

The helicopter was clearly significantly closer to the island than the freighter who was 5 miles out, probably only 2 minutes from it, when it disapeered right before it!

I don't think the freighter was in that bubble at all.
If they wanted to imply that it was, then they'd make it clear on screen.
Right now, we don't even have this ambiguity, the way this has been set up
even if Jin survived the blast (highly unlikely), he'd still be stuck in the middle
of nowhere.

The helicopter may have been to high to be affected. I don't necessarily believe that, but it's not impossible. Maybe the area of effect is hemispherical.

I think there's at least some possibility he's alive. I hope so, at least. I'm with those who're hoping that he got picked up by Dan's boat and they all somehow get to safety.

I'm saying this not based on the trends and history of the show, but on the idea that the writers cannot take a moment with such a cathartic effect (two times, one tonight, and the second time when sun said goodbye at his grave). sure, i can believe that jin wil come back, but that to me would spell out COP OUT. What's the point of Jin coming back? Really? I could see Sun reuniting with him and feeling horrible about the things she's done for revenge, but is that really all that compelling? I feel watching Sun become the new Beatrice Kiddo to be FAR MORE interesting than seeing a cop-out ending with her reuniting with a dead Jin.

As much as I'll miss Jin if he's dead, these are my thoughts as well. I want those heart-breaking scenes to remain poignant, and not just because she *thinks* he's dead. For me, right now it seems 50-50.

Mental Hospital Hurley hasn't talked to him, so we don't know if he's dead. People we know for sure that are dead, Charlie and Mr. Eko.

I think hes still alive purely based on the fact that he wasnt clearly to shown to have died.

The writers would have made his death as dramatic as possible if it were to happen, they want us to think hes dead in order for it to be a shock the next time we see him alive.

I think hes still alive purely based on the fact that he wasnt clearly to shown to have died.

The writers would have made his death as dramatic as possible if it were to happen, they want us to think hes dead in order for it to be a shock the next time we see him alive.

Uh...that was a pretty dramatic scene if you ask me. It's not like anyone wants to see a person being blown up.

I think with the writers clear message that sometimes a Frozen Donkey Wheel actually IS a Frozen Donkey Wheel that sometimes the people we love and care about actually DO die. Accidents happen and things go wrong. That's LIFE.

So I was going to make a post on the exclusion of Jin's FF from e407, but upon researching a bit more I'm finding that the consensus is that that was a FB, not a FF... If that's the case, then logic suggests that Jin is dead, which is very disappointing.

However... I Really thought that was a FF when I watched the original airing. In fact, going back and watching it again I'm still not seeing what the indication is that it's supposed to be a FB...

I'm just having a hard time accepting this death. There wasn't any nobility to it like there was with Michael's. Instead we're left with him helplessly waiving his arms on the deck of the ship. We don't even see his face before the explosion as acknowledgment that he died. Even Nikki and Paulo were written off in a more interesting way than this supposed death... It was completely needless, entirely uncreative, and was a serious disservice to Jin's character. He deserves better than that...

Which still really makes me think that he's still alive, and that either his e407 sequence was a FF, or that he somehow made it back to the island. I dunno.

i initially thought Jin would swim to the island and would require a constant as he swam on the wrong bearings. Then i realised the island isn't there anymore!!! (unless it's cloaked)

didn't the actor get in trouble for drink driving anyway?

I'm pretty sure the Dharma Shark got him.

Uh...that was a pretty dramatic scene if you ask me. It's not like anyone wants to see a person being blown up.


We saw Charlie drown, we saw Eko get smashed to smithereens, we saw the women get shot, all were much more dramatic than the send off Jin got, he could have been any red shirt.

All of those were confirmed dead too, Jin hasnt been confirmed dead.

So I was going to make a post on the exclusion of Jin's FF from e407, but upon researching a bit more I'm finding that the consensus is that that was a FB, not a FF... If that's the case, then logic suggests that Jin is dead, which is very disappointing.

However... I Really thought that was a FF when I watched the original airing. In fact, going back and watching it again I'm still not seeing what the indication is that it's supposed to be a FB...


It was a FB, we have been told it's a FB and the clues where in the episode.:) The size of Jin's mobile, the mention that it was the year of the Dragon (the last one being in 2000, the next in 2012), the fact that Jin wasn't going to see Sun at the hospital and he had only just got married (when we know Sun and Jin had been married longer that the time given) and also, the fact that Sun visited Jin's graveside with Hurley was probably the biggest giveaway :) They tried to trick us, using both a FF and a FB, and it worked, the buggers.

I think Jin is dead though I hope not, maybe the Island isn't finished with him yet...
.

I am still not convinced either way on FB or FF even with the evidence. However, if he died in the ocean away from the island, it could explain a recoverable/buriable body in the ocean provided they recovered it before the sharks. Sun seems to want to get back to the island though, and I would guess the only reason is she thinks Jin is on it.

I'm sorry, but Darlton confirmed it was a FB and was there to mess with your mind. Remember, this episode was at the time when there were supposed to be 2 members of the O6 left but there was only really one as Aaron was counted in the final tally. It was a mind-game, that is all :)

I Think That Jin Is Going To Be Reunited With Sun When Whitmore And Sun Arrive Back On The Island.

I Want To Say I Saw A Figure Jumping Off The Boat Just As The First Explosion Occured. If Anyone Can Look At This Close? He Was Running And Nearly To The Heli-pad. He Could Have Dove Off....

Definately Going To Be On The Daniel Boat Or The Island

^^^ yeah but the point is the Island moved so if he jumped off the freighter he'd be in middle of nowhere

It was a FB, we have been told it's a FB and the clues where in the episode.:) The size of Jin's mobile, the mention that it was the year of the Dragon (the last one being in 2000, the next in 2012), the fact that Jin wasn't going to see Sun at the hospital and he had only just got married (when we know Sun and Jin had been married longer that the time given) and also, the fact that Sun visited Jin's graveside with Hurley was probably the biggest giveaway :) They tried to trick us, using both a FF and a FB, and it worked, the buggers.

I know it's been confirmed as a flashback, but like the other poster, I didn't get that. I thought Jin was back on the mainland, unknown to Sun, and Jin remarried and continued to work for Paik. A gravestone doesn't mean anything. . .I thought she thought Jin was dead, but we knew he wasn't. In other words. . .the writers failed to convey that point well. Something they've been having a lot of problems with, recently. . . .

I wonder if there's more to their "survivor" story. Jack mentioned a few that died after the initial crash. They could have mentioned Jin, giving a better timeline for Sun's pregnancy/due date. But they didn't.
Obviously, they don't name all the ones they know are dead, but they don't name any of the living as having died after the crash.
During the press conference, Sun pauses, then says he never made it off the plane. I wonder if they say all those people died, leaving hope for them being found later.

I have heard

Jin is still alive

Part of me thinks otherwise though.

he's definitely not dead. as a rule; if they're not shown dieing on screen, then they are not dead. just like when sayid, jin, and bernard were "shot" by tom in the season three finale. that was not shown on screen, and they turned out to be very much alive. and yes, we did see the explosion, but we did not see it's effect on jin.

I sure hope you're right!
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Aaaaand...

Harold Perrineau was interviewed when he left LOST but I didn't see any interviews with Daniel Dae Kim..

... I could be wrong though ...

.

If Jin is axed off this show in addition to Michael then the writers can sure as hell forget about the fans giving a damn anymore. Michael's return was something I was excited about more than anything all season and they completely dropped the ball. His return to Lost was nothing more than a "Cameo Appearance". If Jin dies it was nothing more than an afterthought.

I think Sun will be all into her revenge plans and seeing them through when surprise! Jin
is alive after all, and she will have to face the things she did thinking he wasn't.
My thoughts as well!

One thing that makes me think Jin is still alive is that a few episodes back it was revealed that Charlotte speaks Korean. Why bring that up at all if Jin is dead? Or it was just a red herring. Who knows? I don't think we'll find out either way until next season. 8 months from now! Argh!

I don't know if that would work out though. I think that the boat was close enough to the island that the time lapse was gone. The only reason I think this is because when Keamy died that same moment the bomb light turned red.

The bomb light works off of radio transmission. We still haven't figured out the timing on those. Voice communications, right away. Morse code, delayed. Destroy the boat frequency, unknown.

I'm stickin with Jin swimming to shore prior to the boat blowing up. Since it was closer, probably not as big a time lapse as the doctor. I'm with Daniel getting pulled along with the island. He'll return the zodiac with the remaining redshirts so that he can explain to Jin what happened in his own relataive manner.

Really got to hand it to Yunjin Kim for the excellent performance... I really felt the pain Sun must have felt at that point. Beautiful - sad.



im with you. this was an intense moment for her career. it was moving and powerful.

I'm staying in the Jin's not dead camp, unless proven otherwise. I agree that he should have been within the, "event horizon," of the disapearing island, along with Dan, and that it is possible that both reached the island safely.

I think the writers certainly have some explaining to do, regardless of whether Jin is dead or alive. He was a well-liked character and I think the biggest problem with his supposed death is that no one wants to believe it, especially on a show where finality is anything but and we're forced to believe only what can be completely undisputed.

I personally think he has to be alive. The writers certainly left the door open for that possibility. Maybe Season 5 starts with the explosion on the boat, a subsequent shot of the wreckage at water level and Jin resurfacing with a deep breath. We weren't shown him dying. If he's going do die, he deserves a much nobler death than the one we're speculating about.

Also, while the writers "confirmed" that the FB was indeed an FB, did they ever confirm that Jin's body was actually in that grave? Sometimes people erect tombstones in the memory of a loved one, or even bury a coffin with prized belongings in lieu of a body. That's the sense I got when I saw that gravestone, especially after seeing the finale... That Sun thought Jin was dead and had a grave marked in his memory.

Anyway, like I said, the writers have some explaining to do. Part of this show's allure was it's very good writing, it's deliberate pace and planning, and the fact that almost nothing is as it seems unless we're expressly told so (with a dead body, for instance). We've already seen departures from that formula, but this death would represent one of the laziest and worst story developments they've come up with in recent memory. There was nothing noble, nothing crazy, nothing shocking about Jin's "death". That in itself just doesn't fit with Lost's style. If we're supposed to believe that this was Jin's true end, then I know for sure that the passengers of Flight 815 aren't the only ones lost anymore.

Well, I say, "watch it again". It was crystal clear to me and everyone on that helicopter except for Sun, who was grasping at hope, that everyone on that boat perished.

Lest you forget, the island can keep people alive if it chooses.

Jin is alive. I have no proof, of course, no one here does in either case, but I'd be willing to bet money on it. ALL OF THEM need to go back, and how else would Sun EVER be convinced to return? I maintain the only way is that she discovers he is still alive.

Or, if the Island did keep him alive, and say we ignore the theories involve him ending up with the Island, what if he were to be rescued elsewhere? And he returns home to Sun of his own will? THAT would be an incredible moment for the viewers.
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Also, while the writers "confirmed" that the FB was indeed an FB, did they ever confirm that Jin's body was actually in that grave?

We know he was not in the grave, because they only rescued the 6 of them and did not recover any bodies anyway.

he's definitely not dead. as a rule; if they're not shown dieing on screen, then they are not dead. just like when sayid, jin, and bernard were "shot" by tom in the season three finale. that was not shown on screen, and they turned out to be very much alive. and yes, we did see the explosion, but we did not see it's effect on jin.

Exactly. Sun is the one who's going to die out of that couple in some redemptive way in season six. Mark my words. She's one of the few characters that hasn't really changed. She's come more out of her shell, but she's always been tough.

Jin swims to Daniel's boat or wrestles Ezra J. Sharkington to give him a ride back to the island.

not sure of the science involved but could it be possible that the boat people
and jin were sucked up with the island because they were at ground / sea level. thus jin could of gone because even if he was further away than the helicopter as he was at the right level. probably crap but havent seen it mentioned so thought i would :)

I believe Jin is alive for one reason and one reason only.

Jin's death was revealed several episodes before the finale. TPTB obviously want us to think he is dead. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered with the Sun flash forward.

I really do hope Jin is still alive but I guess we'll all have to keep our minds open until we find out for definite!

However - just a word of warning. Daniel Dae Kim was arrested for a driving offence a while back. And we all know what has happened to the other actors that committed driving offences don't we?
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Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere in this thread. I'm a bit behind time as I'm in England & only got to see the finale this week!

According to Kristin (eonline), she says she has it on good authority that Jin is NOT dead and will return next season. The difference between Jin & Michael is that Jin was at the back of the boat but Michael was in the room with the explosives.

I really do hope Jin is still alive but I guess we'll all have to keep our minds open until we find out for definite!

However - just a word of warning. Daniel Dae Kim was arrested for a driving offence a while back. And we all know what has happened to the other actors that committed driving offences don't we?
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Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere in this thread. I'm a bit behind time as I'm in England & only got to see the finale this week!

According to Kristin (eonline), she says she has it on good authority that Jin is NOT dead and will return next season. The difference between Jin & Michael is that Jin was at the back of the boat but Michael was in the room with the explosives.
i have watched the scene and slowed motioned it when the helicopter is looking down at the freighter right before it blows and jin is NOT standing in the position where he was when he was yelling for them to pick him up. Also, when des came running out he went directly for the life jackets before he saw the helicopter. totally foreshadowing for jin!

I believe that Jin is alive and does make it back to the island before it moves. I also believe that he will have more of a impact on the show when they return to the island because he should be speaking fluent english after 3 years surrounded by english speaking characters.

I had gotten a spoiler from a Entertainment email It said 3 Original cast members would be killed off in the finale. Micheal is one, Jin would be two and I sat there wondering who three was until they showed Locke at the very end. I'm not sure if he counts as the 3rd one, since I'm pretty sure he will show up alive on the island next season. Anyway I hope my email was wrong. I really like Jin. Unless I missed another original member getting killed. If I did please fill me in.

he's definitely not dead. as a rule; if they're not shown dieing on screen, then they are not dead. just like when sayid, jin, and bernard were "shot" by tom in the season three finale. that was not shown on screen, and they turned out to be very much alive. and yes, we did see the explosion, but we did not see it's effect on jin.

If he is not dead I will be disappointed. I like Jin, but you can't explain away him surviving that. Grabbing a life jacket and making it to Danny's boat where would he sit since the boat was filled? You didn't see him run to the edge there is no reason to expect him to be alive. Plus one last important thing the last two actors on Lost with a DUI were killed off that year Libby and Ana Lucia and Kim got one before the season started?

I'm going with Jin not being dead.

Our dear, old stamped-with-a-Dharma-logo shark hasn't left the waters surrounding our mystery Island, so the "snow globe" effect of the Island extends to the water surrounding it. The "snow globe" effect also accounts for the time discrepency of the freighter's doctor's body arriving on the Island out of synch with when he was killed on the freigher. When the chopper occupants look to where the Island should have been, they see a ripple effect.

All of those things put together may mean that we shouldn't assume that our Island moved without the water surrounding it. The Island moves the water within the "snow globe" with it when the jump occurs.

If that's the case, then Jin could be alive. Just suppose the following:
1. Jin gets thrown from the freighter in the blast wave instead of dying from the blast.

Since the Island controls when (and where?) a person dies, Jin could survive the blast. Locke's legs regained complete function, Rose's cancer goes away, Jin's sterility is reversed, etc., so it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Island "protects" Jin from death via the C-4's big boom. So, it's possible that Jin is thrown into the water and is unconscious. (And being unconscious may be important. Or not.)

2. Dan and his raft are in the "snow globe" section of the Island's perimeter.

Jin, who before slipping into unconciousness grabs hold of a piece of wreckage and gets caught in the current that pulls him into the "snow globe" effect. Dan, who's role on the show cannot be over since the whole "science" of LOST still needs his character in order to explain various "mysteries" of the Island, sees Jin floating on the water and pulls him into the raft.

3. When the Island moves, the water in the "snow globe" goes with it.

Dan and company are moved with the rest of the people on the Island, and if Jin is in Dan's boat at that point, then Jin will show up next season as a living person.

If we want to use logic only and assume that the size of the blast means all are dead, we've failed to factor in the fact that our Island seems quite capable of operating outside the known laws of science and logic. It doesn't seem to be bound by the same "realism" we are bound by. In the "real" world, sure, Jin would have died from the C-4 explosion, but this is the LOST world where miracles happen. A lot. That the unimaginable happens, a lot, is part of the story the writers are telling.

So, I'm going with a badly injured but alive Jin. A Jin who will be doctored back to health via Juliet. A Jin who will communicate with Charlotte and continue teaching Jin English. And with a Sun who is "working" Widmore rather than "working with" Widmore since it was Widmore's boat and Widmore's C-4, so Widmore is responsible for Jin's "death" and the Island will use Sun's anger to fulfill Destiny.

I believe that Jin is alive and does make it back to the island before it moves. I also believe that he will have more of a impact on the show when they return to the island because he should be speaking fluent english after 3 years surrounded by english speaking characters.
Or, as a goof - when season six comes and we get the presumed 'reunion' scene where the Oceanic 6 re-joins the other survivors - all the remaining Losties now speak fluent Korean. And instead of the Others picking on defenseless plane survivors, Jin will instead have shaped everyone up with the fighting prowess and mentality of Korean gangsters.

:rolleyes:

Is Jin Dead or Not?

Not...and I won't hear another word about it.

Jin is dead! Sun visited his grave stone (even if the date was wrong). Sun also blames her father and Jack for his death. Finally jack feels bad about Jin's death.

Jin's story was done, and now so is he.

Jin is dead! Sun visited his grave stone (even if the date was wrong). Sun also blames her father and Jack for his death. Finally jack feels bad about Jin's death.

Jin's story was done, and now so is he.

Not a very convincing argument, to be honest.

As far as Sun knows (at that point), Jin IS dead. It's also so we, the viewer, would be waiting for his "death" to happen.

Sun blaming her father and Jack has nothing to do with it, really. They think he's dead but they have no way of knowing what he did before the freighter blew up- they were in a helicopter!

Also, with Entertainment's report (wasn't it Ausiello?) that said "3 cast members would die"... I dunno, but those reports really have no merit to them. Those people have gossip pages that posts the first thing they hear from one of their "sources". If someone on the set was apart of Jin being on the freighter, then he'd report to Ausiello that Jin's dead. Only DARLTON really knows at this point.

I hope he's alive...

One reason that I think he is alive is, cos if he dies, then it will take something away from Michael redeeming himself...

But a reason for him to be dead is that, he's story is kind of closed...

I could have baked a cake and eaten it in the amount of time Jin had to get off that boat. I don't see any reason at all why he shouldn't have lived...he knew the bomb was going off, he could see the chopper leaving without him, he was close enough to jump into the water...why on earth would he just wait around to be blown up instead of saving his skin? No, I'm convinced we'll see him back again next season. Besides, it would be cool to see Sun turn "bad", consumed by her grief and anger, then finding her husband alive upon her return to the island...only now they're batting for opposite sides in the game of light and dark!

I'm going to argue not dead. I think he's floating in the water. I think Dan will cruise the wreckage looking for survivors, and pick Jin up (and I think Dan didn't get transported with the island because I believe it will be his mission next season to get back to Charlotte). Christen Sheppard appeared to Michael to tell him he was dead. "You can go now Micheal." With Jin, we just know that he was standing on the deck, and there was some distance between him and the blast. Sun and Jin will reunite in the future.

In my opinion, Jin is alive. It's not just the hopeless romantic in me saying that either, it makes sense in a storytelling aspect.

As far as Sun knows, she watched her husband die. When she returns to Korea and visits Jin's "grave" she is beginning to accept his death. As she begins living her life without him, anger begins to set in and she blames her father and possibly Jack for Jin's death and in an act of revenge takes her father's company. Then at some point she is either visited by Bentham, CS, or gets a mysterious phone call (this seems to be the case with all of the O6) telling her that she needs to go back and that Jin is alive. She then becomes determined to find the island again which we see with her visit to Widmore. I cannot fathom why she would want to find the island again if not for Jin.

Also, I wholeheartedly disagree with what some posters have said in regards to Jin still being alive as a cop out or cheapening the emotions that Sun and the viewers felt after the explosion. Whether Jin is alive or not Sun still lost her husband. She was torn from him in a brutal fashion and forced to face the uncertainty and loneliness of life without him all while raising their child. To a certain extent it is more tragic for Sun to know that Jin is alive and that she cannot be with him. There can be no closure that way. Her longing to be with him can only be worse knowing that he is there but impossible to reach.

Here's a wacky thought (excuse me if it's already been suggested by anyone else)

In Ji Yeon, we watched what we assumed was an FF of Sun and Jin, with Sun ready to deliver their baby, and Jin running around to buy a Panda. Now, I'm sure some viewers thought he was buying the thing for his wife and almost born child. Later, we discovered we were watching her FF, and supposedly his FB (since he's single and the panda clearly isn't for anyone he loves, but rather a business gesture from his boss).

But here's my question: what if they were both FFs? What if Jin (through Christian, or through the Island's own movement) had been transported back in time and through space, to the past? What if he's alive somewhere in Korea, oblivious to who Sun is, living his life happily? If this is confusing, I'll allude to the movie, 'The Lakehouse', where the 2 main characters coexist in a time warp in the same place. Perhaps Jin was taken back through time?

I know it's probably all rot, but it struck me when he delivered the panda to the ambassador that he was already working for Mr. Paik at the time, yet he was single (he tells a nurse). But, we saw earlier, in S1 (House of Rising Sun, I think) that he only started working for Mr. Paik once the man agreed to let him marry Sun. Yet, in Ji Yeon he's working for Paik, and he's unmarried.

Thoughts? It probably is ridiculous, I know, but like many of you I don't want him dead!

I know it's probably all rot, but it struck me when he delivered the panda to the ambassador that he was already working for Mr. Paik at the time, yet he was single (he tells a nurse). But, we saw earlier, in S1 (House of Rising Sun, I think) that he only started working for Mr. Paik once the man agreed to let him marry Sun. Yet, in Ji Yeon he's working for Paik, and he's unmarried.

Thoughts? It probably is ridiculous, I know, but like many of you I don't want him dead!
I believe he told the nurse that he was only recently married, not single.
As was mentioned elsewhere, it was definitely a Jin FB. The cellphone make and the toy dragons really confirm it.
What I'm more curious about is if the nurse that asked Jin the question is in fact one of Lost's own writing staff, Christina Kim.

Please let him be alive. I am refusing to believe he is dead for the moment, it is the only way for me to make it thru!!

In my opinion, Jin is alive. It's not just the hopeless romantic in me saying that either, it makes sense in a storytelling aspect.

As far as Sun knows, she watched her husband die. When she returns to Korea and visits Jin's "grave" she is beginning to accept his death. As she begins living her life without him, anger begins to set in and she blames her father and possibly Jack for Jin's death and in an act of revenge takes her father's company. Then at some point she is either visited by Bentham, CS, or gets a mysterious phone call (this seems to be the case with all of the O6) telling her that she needs to go back and that Jin is alive. She then becomes determined to find the island again which we see with her visit to Widmore. I cannot fathom why she would want to find the island again if not for Jin.

Also, I wholeheartedly disagree with what some posters have said in regards to Jin still being alive as a cop out or cheapening the emotions that Sun and the viewers felt after the explosion. Whether Jin is alive or not Sun still lost her husband. She was torn from him in a brutal fashion and forced to face the uncertainty and loneliness of life without him all while raising their child. To a certain extent it is more tragic for Sun to know that Jin is alive and that she cannot be with him. There can be no closure that way. Her longing to be with him can only be worse knowing that he is there but impossible to reach.

I totally agree. Great post. Besides, Sun and Jin are the one true classic romantic couple on Lost, the relationship that keeps together even after all their hardships. To me, it would be a total cop-out if Jin died.

I could have baked a cake and eaten it in the amount of time Jin had to get off that boat. I don't see any reason at all why he shouldn't have lived...he knew the bomb was going off, he could see the chopper leaving without him, he was close enough to jump into the water...why on earth would he just wait around to be blown up instead of saving his skin? No, I'm convinced we'll see him back again next season. Besides, it would be cool to see Sun turn "bad", consumed by her grief and anger, then finding her husband alive upon her return to the island...only now they're batting for opposite sides in the game of light and dark!
I agree with your post. Jin knew what was going on and he was at the end of the boat - able to jump off in time. He knows how to survive; he made it safely when another boat exploded after he dove into the water. They made a point that the freighter was closer to the Island than what Lapidus was expecting, so Jin may have been close enough to get into that snowglobe effect that swallowed the Zodiac.

When a major character dies -- we get some kind of closure on that. We've seen some shot, drown, fall off a cliff in a plane, get killed by Smokey. . .and when the show left it ambiguous (as with Danielle and Karl), we were shown that they were indeed dead and buried. In this ep, we were told that Michael died: that was the whole point of Christian telling him he could go now. If Jin died in the explosion, there is no way now for them to show us that happened.

So -- I think we'll see that he really is alive. He may not make it back by S5. He may wash up somewhere else on the Island and live by his wits for 16 years before he finds another person on the Island.:) He may be a surprise for S6. But there is more depth for the story if he makes it to the Island -- Sun's story needs him, like ungreth has described.

Jin is alive. If he turns out to be dead it will have been as an afterthought on the producers/writers part. I seriously wouldn't be worried about it.

I think Jin will be just fine. Maybe a little banged up but I do believe our good friend Daniel will be conveniently passing by with the Zodiac to pick him up. He will be back on the beach taking shots of Rum with the Sawyer.

I really hope that he's alive. He wife and daughter need him!

Sure Jim could still be alive. After all 40-60(?) people and a dog in a cage survived a plane breaking into 3 pieces and crashing to the ground and ocean from thousands of feet up.

I think, for example, it would be more clear cut if they had shown his charred body floating in the water. ;)

This is my feeling too. We have always seen the characters die, or get buried. We haven't had to debate whether someone survived with no possible closure. And, if Jin is dead, there is no way now for them to show us, since the Island moved and nobody is in the region to see his dead body.

Unless they show the freighter blow up in a FB with the enhanced script saying "the explosion killed Jin" (which I suppose they could do, now that I think of it).

***Mod edited to remove quote of deleted post***

But I don't think he is dead. We didn't see him dying and I think it would be lame to kill off Jin in this manner, exploding to pieces? Even Ana-Lucia and Libby was given the chance to be buried. As for Charlie, well he was one of the main characters like Jin, so he gets a proper death but not Jin? No he can't be dead.

Here's a wacky thought (excuse me if it's already been suggested by anyone else)

In Ji Yeon, we watched what we assumed was an FF of Sun and Jin, with Sun ready to deliver their baby, and Jin running around to buy a Panda. Now, I'm sure some viewers thought he was buying the thing for his wife and almost born child. Later, we discovered we were watching her FF, and supposedly his FB (since he's single and the panda clearly isn't for anyone he loves, but rather a business gesture from his boss).

But here's my question: what if they were both FFs? What if Jin (through Christian, or through the Island's own movement) had been transported back in time and through space, to the past? What if he's alive somewhere in Korea, oblivious to who Sun is, living his life happily? If this is confusing, I'll allude to the movie, 'The Lakehouse', where the 2 main characters coexist in a time warp in the same place. Perhaps Jin was taken back through time?

I know it's probably all rot, but it struck me when he delivered the panda to the ambassador that he was already working for Mr. Paik at the time, yet he was single (he tells a nurse). But, we saw earlier, in S1 (House of Rising Sun, I think) that he only started working for Mr. Paik once the man agreed to let him marry Sun. Yet, in Ji Yeon he's working for Paik, and he's unmarried.

Thoughts? It probably is ridiculous, I know, but like many of you I don't want him dead!

I I think no thought is wacky as far as Lost is concerned.:rolleyes: However, he was not single when he bought that panda, I'm sure that he told the nurse that he had been married for only what, two months, right?, so I think he had just got married Sun at that time and we saw this -as if it were an FF right until the very end- because a) TPTB just wanted to play with us as they always do b) they wanted to show us the possible wonders of the timewarp, where two different times, past and future co-exist in the universe. c) both :drowsy:

I will take this time to remind a few of you (as I am sure they will notice their posts have been deleted) that the site rules are clear about VIP privacy issues. Discuss the show here not their personal lives....

The bomb light works off of radio transmission. We still haven't figured out the timing on those. Voice communications, right away. Morse code, delayed. .

The morse code was exactly the same as the voice communications. Daniel just had to use the sat phone to send morse code because the mic was broken. The morse code conversation was in real time. It was Doc's body that was affected by a time shift, not the message about him.


P.S. Jin is dead.

I'm on the "Jin is alive" side.
Either he'll swim back or the zodiac will pick him up and return to the island.

also, I'm pretty sure the ship was within the "snowglobe" of the island when it exploded. the shot of Dan coming back from the first trip after they get the engines get fixed on the freighter, they pan from the freighter to Dan coming in for a landing on the shore.
also, when Sawyer comes up on shore to Julliet, they show the smoke from the sinking freighter.

I'm on the "Jin is alive" side.
Either he'll swim back or the zodiac will pick him up and return to the island.

also, I'm pretty sure the ship was within the "snowglobe" of the island when it exploded.

Then why didnt' the chopper get sucked away with the island? It was much closer to the island than the freighter was when the island moved.

Then why didnt' the chopper get sucked away with the island? It was much closer to the island than the freighter was when the island moved.
Because Ben gave them permission to leave the island?, and Ben's a man of his word...:lipsseal:

BTW: Jin's alive, but without Sun, he'll be seriously shortchanged in terms of dialog in season 5. Unless of course, TPTB give Jin and Charlotte some kinda story arc.

Because Ben gave them permission to leave the island?, and Ben's a man of his word...:lipsseal:

But Ben doesn't set the rules for the island, in fact he is a slave to those rules. Otherwise I'm guessing he wouldn't let himself be banished from his beloved rock.

BTW: Jin's alive, but without Sun, he'll be seriously shortchanged in terms of dialog in season 5. Unless of course, TPTB give Jin and Charlotte some kinda story arc.

I will just declare right now that if in fact Jin is alive next season, it is not because TPTB ever intended for him to survive the freighter explosion, but rather it will be in response to the greater audience's inability to believe that Jin is dead, and the fact that they (the audience) will have been throwing a holy fit of disbelief for 6 months after we all saw Jin clearly go BOOM and drown in what was likely a horrible stinking burning mess of a death.

It was so sad hearing sun scream, i cried..
Poor Jin.. unless... he jumped in the water...

Yeah if they killed off Charlie and Alex to advance the story and provide motivation for other characters, Jin is a very good candidate for being dead as well since it gives Sun such a convincing motivation to do whatever she's positioning herself to do. Doesn't mean I like it, I'm still hoping he's alive but I won't be surprised if we find out he really is dead.

You know, this show is so much about redemption, right? Well, Jin redeemed himself. He got Sun on the freakin helicopter. Now that hardly makes up for all the crappy stuff he did before they go to the island, but still, he kind of came full circle during the months that we knew him. And frankly, what more did he have to add to the story? He added MUCH more to the storyline by dying and giving Sun some focus and adrenaline that should last her through the next two seasons.



Favorite Jin moment:
Telling ghost stories around the campfire.

I hope he's alive. There's a few signs pointing to him being him alive.

First, he was on the deck on the other side of the ship before the explosion, it is possible he jumped off. Second, Charlotte speaking Korean was too prominent to be a throw away scene.

As far as Sun, if Jin got stuck on the island where ever it went then she'd probably assume he was dead. So, if he is alive, he's on the island.

I'm not gonna say he's alive. I'd say it's probably 50/50,

this was heavily debated in the Goodbye Jin thread. If Mods could link the poll to the thread that would be great.

I think he's dead. Even if he didn't die in the explosion, he would be floating around in the open ocean with no land around for possibly thousands of miles. He would die of dehydration within days. :cry:

I voted that he is alive. I think he jumped from the freighter and Dan picked him up in the zodiac. Also even if Dan didn't pick him up when the Island disappeared so did the freighter and anything that was closed to the Island, so it is possible that he could have swam back to the Island.

I'm not sure. The arguments for him being dead and the arguments for him being alive are both extremely strong. I'd like to think he's alive but it's very possible he's dead. It's50/0 IMO.

I voted not sure. I really like Jin and hope he's not dead but I can see them killing him. They've killed off a load of people in the past.

Sometimes on this show, many signs point towards that a character dies, but that character survives anyway. I voted not sure.

I believe he is alive.:)

I voted that he is alive. I think he jumped from the freighter and Dan picked him up in the zodiac. Also even if Dan didn't pick him up when the Island disappeared so did the freighter and anything that was closed to the Island,.


..except for the helicopter, which was much closer to the island than the freighter ever was.

I believe he survives but swims to the island on the wrong bearing, goes crazy needs Sun

I don't think Jin is dead.

wouldn't it be awesome!

I'm really really hoping that he jumped before the bomb went off and someone survived. The whole scene was awful and made me sick to my stomach.

Same, here.
The other part of me is just thinking that he's dead. Oh, the ambiguity...

How ironic that the last English word that Jin learns is "BOOM.":)

As for the chopper vs the freighter debate of why one could be outside the frozen donkey wheel's effect while the other is not ...

Think snowglobe. Picture a globe around the Island rather than a cylinder. At a certain point, the water and the air are both outside the globe, but for some distance beyond the Island's shore the water would still be within the globe while the air above that water gradually becomes outside the globe.

The chopper may have moved outside of the frozen donkey wheel's range because it was in the air, but the freighter might still be inside the range even if the chopper was directly overhead.

As for whether or not Jin is alive or dead, Jin--if he was thrown from the freighter AND Dan picked him up--could be alive in Season 5. Sun would still believe her hubby is dead since from her perspective, Jin couldn't possibly be alive, and that means that she would still be motivated to avenge his "wrongful death" and behave in all sorts of ways based on her belief. Also, Jin has learned English--he understands more of it than he can speak--and Charlotte speaks Korean which would let her translate anything Jin couldn't convey, so the writers have given themselves options.

If the writers need Jin to be alive, they've written themselves a backdoor to let him live. If the writers don't need him to be alive, they've written themselves a watery grave for Paik's son-in-law.

The question of whether or not Jin survived has more to do with what the character can bring to the table in terms of plot, not whether or not is is logical that he could or could not have survived. So, ... the answer to Jin's fate rests with what would the Jin character be needed to do in Season 5 (and maybe 6) that could not be done by another character? What skills or traits does the character have that could be utilized?

I voted not sure, beause I am not sure, there is significant visual evidence that suggests he could have survived the explosion, he was at the end of the boat, but then would he have had time to swim back to the Island before it moved, or could Daniel have picked him up in his little boat and brought him back to the Island, so many questions so many months to wait for answers.

Its looking like more people think he's alive.. i voted that he is dead but i'm thinking differently after re watching the episode

If he is alive I wonder if anyone will find him since the island is no longer there. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out he survived later on and he surprises Sun. That would be an awesome scene!

i too hope thats the case,... and if it is,.. i hope i am equally surprised. :)
100%
As for the chopper vs the freighter debate of why one could be outside the frozen donkey wheel's effect while the other is not ...

Think snowglobe. Picture a globe around the Island rather than a cylinder. At a certain point, the water and the air are both outside the globe, but for some distance beyond the Island's shore the water would still be within the globe while the air above that water gradually becomes outside the globe.

The chopper may have moved outside of the frozen donkey wheel's range because it was in the air, but the freighter might still be inside the range even if the chopper was directly overhead.

As for whether or not Jin is alive or dead, Jin--if he was thrown from the freighter AND Dan picked him up--could be alive in Season 5. Sun would still believe her hubby is dead since from her perspective, Jin couldn't possibly be alive, and that means that she would still be motivated to avenge his "wrongful death" and behave in all sorts of ways based on her belief. Also, Jin has learned English--he understands more of it than he can speak--and Charlotte speaks Korean which would let her translate anything Jin couldn't convey, so the writers have given themselves options.

If the writers need Jin to be alive, they've written themselves a backdoor to let him live. If the writers don't need him to be alive, they've written themselves a watery grave for Paik's son-in-law.

The question of whether or not Jin survived has more to do with what the character can bring to the table in terms of plot, not whether or not is is logical that he could or could not have survived. So, ... the answer to Jin's fate rests with what would the Jin character be needed to do in Season 5 (and maybe 6) that could not be done by another character? What skills or traits does the character have that could be utilized?


hes a killer,.. an assasin, a "go to guy". he'll stop at nothing to