Does anyone else feel completely robbed by the series finale of Angel? I know it was awhile ago, but I saw someones picture and it just made me mad all over again. That was horrible. Sorry needed to vent before i leave and start driving home...road rage is bad :P

robbed by the network? yes. I still loved that final episode though(loved all the last 10 episodes actually, last season of Angel was better than buffy's last!)

I can't wait to get the DVD later this month.

I liked the ending of Angel. I'm pissed that it was cancelled. I wish it hadn't been cancelled, but I found the ending quite enjoyable. I love season five as a whole, especially the Fred/Illyria arc. That Amy Acker is one talented lady.

OMG!!!! I'm STILL mourning the death of that show! I loved "Angel" almost as much as "Farscape". I definitely liked it better than BtVS - it was written for adults, not high schoolers. While I'm happy that David Fury is on "Lost", I'd much rather have "Lost" on at 8 and "Angel" on at 9.

FWIW, I did post a message to David Fury on the VIP section that I missed the Fang Gang, and he replied.

I loved that show. I used to look forward to it just like I do Lost, and endured years of flack from friends because I like the "karate vampire".

I was VERY disappointed with the ending. I could see what they were going for, kind of a "riding off into the sunset" ending. Our characters (hopefully) went on to conquer this apocolypse as they did all the others. But it seemed like a rush job.

I couldn't help thinking when I watched the scene where Lorne shot Lindsey, that Lorne's attitude was that of the writers -- Lorne said he was tired of it all.

I'm a high schooler *:(

I liked both BtVS and Angel. *They are completely different shows. *You can't really compare them fairly. *They exist within the same world, but have a different message they tried to convey. *

And BtVS isn't a show for the stereotypical high schooler. *The O.C. is that kind of show. *Most of my peers can't appreciate the show. *I've tried converting many of them, and it doesn't work.

TRoss, of course it was a rush job. The ratings were doubled. They didn't expect to be cancelled.

I LOVED Angel. I miss it so much. I need my weekly Angel fixes. I thought the last episode was good overall. I definitely cried in the last couple of episodes. I missed Fred, and when Illyria changed to please Wesley, :'( *tear*
I only own the first two seasons on DVD though, those were my favorites. I did like the second half of season 5 too.

I loved Angel! I loved Buffy! I loved Firefly! And I love LOST! Series finales always make me sad. I don't like them. Cause you know, in an hour, it's all over. Forever. Done. But take heart! There are rumors of a Spike-centric TV movie series (maybe 4 or 5 movies)! Yay!
I took some internet quiz thing once and it said I was the most like Fred (crazy scientist Fred, not elder gawd Fred). OK. I can see that.

I was (still am ) a hugh BTVS and Angel fan. Lost has helped me get over my bitterness for Angel being canceled. It's cool to have another show to look foreward to and to get excited about spoilers again =) Marion :) :lol2:

I guess I was mad because it was abruptly cancelled and the last show was so rushed or that's the way it came off. It was cool to see Wesley go out the way he did, but all that build up and we just see them fade to black as they go into the battle???? AHHHHHHHHH, that was anti climatic in my opinion.......I can't really fault the writers though, the show just didn't pull the ratings once it switched networks.

Buffy's was unspeakable. Disappointing is an understatement when talking about that series finale. I guess I was thinking he would be "walking towards the light" after his final fight. Closure.

Buffy's was unspeakable. Disappointing is an understatement when talking about that series finale. I guess I was thinking he would be "walking towards the light" after his final fight. Closure.


Angel ended how it did for a good reason. The fight never ends. There is no closure. That is what Joss was trying to convey. It wasn't rushed. It was very deliberate.

I will look at it that way from now on. I didn't know that was the ending Joss always had in mind. I figured they threw it together since they were cancelled abruptly.

I will look at it that way from now on. I didn't know that was the ending Joss always had in mind. I figured they threw it together since they were cancelled abruptly.


The WB actually gave Joss several months notice on the cancellation. It wasn't abrupt at all. And since it barely got renewed for a fifth season, Joss had to be prepared for the eventuality. Not that he had to like it but, I am sure he was prepared.

For the record. I loved Angel and miss it desperately. I just get tired of seeing Internet rumor and whining spread around as facts.

I am here
Loved Angel - I understood the ending, but wished it could go on, Wesley dying made sense after all he had been through I don't think he could ever really recover anymore. I missed Fred, didn't like her dying or becoming the god, the actress did a great job, but I missed Fred.

Loved Buffy - Neat idea about sharing the "slayer" with all the potentials, I did love that Angel addressed what happens when a "potential" was a damaged individual with no help to deal with the sudden power.

Am very thankful for Lost, I was feeling the loss.

I guess I was mad because it was abruptly cancelled and the last show was so rushed or that's the way it came off....all that build up and we just see them fade to black as they go into the battle? AHHHHHHHHH, that was anti climatic in my opinion
.......I can't really fault the writers though, the show just didn't pull the ratings once it switched networks.

Angel never switched networks.

The WB actually gave Joss several months notice on the cancellation. It wasn't abrupt at all.

They have to write each episode months before it airs.

There is usually a lag of at least a month between the filming of an episode and the broadcast.* And I think the episode has to be written at least a week before they start shooting.

The Angel staff had written about 17 episodes already when the network cancelled the show.* That left only 5 episodes to wrap up not just the fifth season but the entire series.* I consider that abrupt.


And since it barely got renewed for a fifth season, Joss had to be prepared for the eventuality.

The network execs praised the show quite a bit after the 100th episode.* I could understand if the staff was surprised that those same executives cancelled the show only a month later.

After everything that had happened in the preceding year with Firefly, don't you think Joss was in some way prepared for what WB did?

I am not defending the decision. I adored the fifth season and wanted much more. I just can't quite think that Joss wasn't in some way prepared for it.

Well, when you're ratings double (or so James Marsters claimed at a con) I don't think you expect to be cancelled. I mean, I wouldn't but I've never worked on a television show before.

Well, when you're ratings double (or so James Marsters claimed at a con) I don't think you expect to be cancelled. I mean, I wouldn't but I've never worked on a television show before.


The final season of Angel had National Rating that ranged from 3.6 to 2.2
The previous season had National ratings that ranged from 2.8 to 2.2
The third season ranged from 3.2 to 2.5
The second season 3.9 to 2.5 and
The first season 4.8 to 2.9

repeats were lower but I excluded them.

So, season 5 definitely did better than the previous year but, not that much better.

I don't think JM's comment really holds up under scrutiny. I know I continued to watch because of James, though. ;D

Season IV was the best arc IMO.

I'm a huge Angel/Buffy fan. I think Angel ended great, going out fighting is the way it should have been IMO.
I used to say certain episodes or season's were better than others, but once it got cancelled I quit.
I love Angel, I miss Angel. I love every episode and every season especially now that its gone. :(

From what Joss and Fury have said, the 6th season sounds like it would've been incredible. Here are some quotes from them on the finale and what would've come next:

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|88269|1|,00.html

Whedon's 'Angel' Goes Down Fighting
(Tuesday, May 18 03:21 PM)
By Rick Porter
Here's a one-line summary for Season 6 of "Angel," courtesy of series co-creator Joss Whedon:
"If you buck the system and do your best to make it collapse, what if it does?"

. . . . . . . . . .

*
It won't necessarily be pretty. "The pain of loss I felt when they cancelled the show, I'm going to share," Whedon says.
That seems fitting for "Angel," which has always proceeded from a murkier emotional place than "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," from which the show spun off in 1999. As Whedon puts it, where "Buffy" was about "the getting of strength ... the acceptance of strength," "Angel" deals with atonement and the possibility of redemption.

. . . . . . . . .

"If Angel had come back next year,it would have been post-apocalyptic" says David Fury of the producers plans for season six. "I don't mean like Dark Angel with just a bunch of industrial buildings,I mean Mad Max Road Warrior.Season six would have been hugely post-apocalyptic with Angel as the Road Warrior. That was our idea for the next season, so with that in mind we knew the end of season five was leading into something huge and global and monumental.

"In the finale[Not Fade Away],they basically start a war and it's a war that will have huge good and evil implications of almost Biblical proportions. It would have been very different next year and a little more sci-fi,I guess. It was something we knew we could never show because we would never have the money to show it,so we figured,"Let's lead us into it". We knew we would end this thing with our guys about to jump into the breach of a giant apocalypse."


Thanks for that vos, it helps me understand, and therefore deal with, the ending a little better!* *:'( ;)

Am I the only one that thinks Season Six would've been cool... but sounds kinda dumb?

Angel as a Mad Max type character. What the Hell? Post-apocalyptic wasteland?

:(

IA

I think that "Angel" ended perfectly, except for one thing. I would have like to see if Angel had found the redemption that he sought, and if he or Spike became the Shanshu. Wouldn't it have been ironic if Angel did finally become human, only to be killed immediately by the nasties that the Senior Partners sent after him?

I think that "Angel" ended perfectly, except for one thing. I would have like to see if Angel had found the redemption that he sought, and if he or Spike became the Shanshu.* Wouldn't it have been ironic if Angel did finally become human, only to be killed immediately by the nasties that the Senior Partners sent after him?


The point of the show was redemption... and Angel found his in Connor.

Spike's redemption was that he had no reason to fight alongside Angel... except for the fact that he finally realised he could do things for himself. The nagging issue I have with "Chosen" is that Spike puts on the amulet for Buffy... but in "Not Fade Away" he does it for himself.

The ratings for the show went up a bit (even though the budget went down), and the writers made more stand-alone episodes, just as the WB asked.

The WB had recently ordered another 9 episodes. (They had ordered only 13 episodes at the end of the previous season.) Also, Firefly got axed by Fox, not by the WB; Whedon was used to better treatment by the WB.

The ratings for repeats were never going to improve much, though, and that was a problem according to the WB execs.* I'm guessing that they also didn't want the hassle of negotiating with David Boreanaz. His five-year contract was about to expire.
(Also, there was a severe shortage of T&A on the show.* *:angel: )

This is to all of those Angel fans who also tune into LOST.

I love Angel!! Also, I love Buffy!!

*sobs* I never liked Angel. So I can't post here. Booooo hoooooo :'(

We were talking about the whole Fred/Illyria thing in the other thread. I don't remember what I was going to say, but I'm sure it'll come to me...it was in regard to something in season five.

Well someone said that they enjoyed the episode where Illyria assumed the guise of Fred for Fred's parents..

And I agree...the was incredibly heartbreaking...and it started the whole Wes/IIlyria discussion about 'pretending', which was later used in possibly the most heartbreaking death scene on television ever...

Anyone have the season five boxset? I've only seen "A Hole in the World" with the "commentary" (you understand the quotation marks if you've heard it). Any commentaries you recommend?

I have Season 5, but I haven't gotten around to watching the commentaries yet...I went on a TV show on DVD shopping binge on boxing day...and I'm still recovering from that...meaning I'm backlogged with stuff to watch...

I only opened the boxset so I could watch "Smile Time" again...that never gets old! ;)

There's no commentary for "Smile Time". I was very upset when I found this out...

Yeah I know!!! I just watched the actual episode several times...but I was very dissapointed that we didn't get some insight into the making of it and stuff..

It's really a PERFECT esisode for commentary...

I think there's supposed to be a featurette called "Hey Kids, It's Smile Time!" or something of that nature. I can't find it, though.

Maybe they're mean and have it as an Easter Egg of some sort!

Season 5 was when I first started watching the new episodes (I started watching because of Spike and soon realized I better start watching the re-runs so I can understand what the heck is going on!) but I loved how Joss Whedon and Co. tied in all of those standalone episodes into something that made a lot of sense, something they failed to do on Buffy.


*sobs* I never liked Angel. So I can't post here. Booooo hoooooo :'(


Ophelia! NEVER FEAR!!!! I will make a Buffy thread also!

I figured it might be an Easter egg, but it says that the feature is there right on the back!* I know there was a website that told you how to find Easter eggs...

To all of the Buffy fans who LURVE in capital letters Buffy and her Scooby Gang!

I call Anya Christina Emanuella Jenkins if we're assigning Scooby roles on the board!

I call Willow Rosenburg!

That's not how you spell Willow's last name.* It's spelled "Rosenberg".* See?* I have finesse!

Are you sure? Don't Jewish people spell it with a u?

That's how it's spelled.

Well SORRY!!! :lol2: Typical, G! Always correcting me. ::)

I call Willow Rosenberg!

People should probably be correcting me all the time.* I mean, I did call Anya Christina Emanuella Jenkins.

I was too lazy... :lol2:

I'm in Business Class.* I think Anya would have liked that *sniffle* *tear*.

I'm in Premuim Economy. I think she likes those two words put together in the same sentence! :lol2:

Economy *swoon** Money *swoon** Capitalism* *swoon** Sex *swoon** Xander *swoon*

I SO call Cordelia!

Seriously, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly are all serious staples of my TV diet. My (not so) secret vice is reading Buffy and Angel novels. So far, my favorite is the Spike/Dru novel Pretty Maids All in a Row. I recommend it highly!

Actually, I'll take anyone but Kennedy.

I SO call Cordelia!

Seriously, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly are all serious staples of my TV diet. My (not so) secret vice is reading Buffy and Angel novels. So far, my favorite is the Spike/Dru novel Pretty Maids All in a Row. I recommend it highly!


I've only read a couple of them, including Pretty Maids All in a Row. Very good. So good that Joss used the "kill all the potential slayers and then kill the Slayer" last plot for season 7 :)

Templeton

I read The Lost Slayer series (it was one book that included all 3 stories) in one day! That was my favorite!!! I cried so hard when Xander died in the book.Then I was bawling when they killed Wesley. And it didn't clear up when Angel and Giles died :'( :'( :'( Such a good series!

Okay...it turns out that the "Hey Kids: It's Smile Time!" featurette is on the first disc of Season 5...just under special features...which frankly makes no sense....but oh well ;)

It's really not that informative though...it would have been nice if they'd gone into more detail about the making of the episode.

Thank you muchly ;D

I'm here. I love my Angel. I haven't bought Season 5 yet. But I have all 5 seasons on VHS so I can watch to my little hearts desire. I also have all seasons of Buff on VHS also. So basically I live in fantasyland.

But, my PA, you need the commentaries and special features!

The commentary for "Conviction" isn't the best.* There were some good parts and a few bits of trivia, but nothing too interesting.* I wish Drew had done some commentary.* That man is brilliant! *swoon*

Well hubby is on a mission to transfer all VHS stuff to DVD and I told him don't bother with my Angel and Buffy stuff, that I would buy those. He just smiled, he understands my obsession with Mr. Boreanaz and Mr Redford and Mr Selleck and Mr Clooney and Mr Pitt and Mr Bloom and Mr Costner.

Lucky...no one understands my obsession with Mr.Monaghan. :lol2:

Except the hundreds of Dom Fangirls on the 'net* ::)

I meant my parents and friends, silly. ::) Besides, it's not hundreds, it thousands!

:P* I know what you meant.* I was being a smart aleck.

:P I know what you meant. I was being a smart aleck.


I like smart alecks. Going to get dinner, brb

Have a nice dinner, PA o' mine! May thoughts of Angel be with you!

But it's usually my job to be the smart aleck...oh whatever. You can be the smart aleck today since I'm not in the mood to be smart alecky. ::) :lol2:

Have any of you read any of the Buffy/Angel novels by either Chris Golden or Ray Garton. Both are friends of mine Chris actually gets to write the novelization for the King Kong movie the lucky bastige.

I've heard of Chris Golden...

I haven't read any BtVS/Angel novels.

Ray Garton wrote one of the best vampire novels ever Live Girls.

I loved The Lost Slayer trilogy. I read the whole trilogy in one day (I got all three books so that they were like three books in one) and I cried really hard at the end. :'( Poor Wesley...

I have not read them but I've heard other Buffy/Angel sites talk about how great they are.

How many ties do we have from LOST to Angel?

1) Daniel Dae Kim as "Gavin Parks"
2) Josh Holloway was in the first episode of Angel. I believe he was credited as "Good Looking Boy".
3) Drew Goddard--writer *swoon* *swoon* *swoon*
4) David Fury--writer *swoon*
5) Marita Grabiak--director

...That's all I got...

Okay, here's kind of long stretch but Sean Astin directed an episode and he worked with Dom on LotR. But I don't think that counts... :lol2:

Brent Fletcher! He wrote "Soul Purpose" in Angel Season 5...and he co-wrote "Numbers" with David Fury for Lost!

Also some directors in common:

Tucker Gates - Directed "Hero" on Angel...and "Confidence Man" on Lost
Marita Grabiak - Directed 5 episodes of Angel...and "Raised by Another"
David Grossman - Directed 4 episodes of Angel...and the upcoming "The Greater Good" for Lost

But TV directors bounce all around, so that's not that uncommon...still...

I already said Marita Grabiak ::)

lol...yes you did...my bad...didn't catch it at the end there... :)

Exactly what the title says. Can anybody tell me what the chances are, really, of seeing another show based in the Buffyverse. A show focusing on Spike or Faith or someone but a new show at least! Anyone? I was hoping that after Angel was cancelled this kind of thing would spring into action straight away but I guess not!

I always hoped there was going to be a spin off show about Spike, or at least with Dru, Angel and Darla when they were terrorising London.
I read somewhere that it was quite unlikely that there would be a spin-off, but if one ever did come about, it would be about Spike...

[quote=Daniel;689272]Exactly what the title says. Can anybody tell me what the chances are, really, of seeing another show based in the Buffyverse.... [quote]

The answer to your question is none and none. Any hope of a spin-off based on Buffyverse was squashed a long time ago.

Many of the actors have moved on. You might enjoy seeing David Boreanz, formerly Angel, in his new show, Bones. It is very good. James Marsters aka Spike is guest starring in Smallville. Allyson Hanigan aka Willow is in a new comedy, How I Met Your Mother. Charisma Carpenter guest stars on Veronica Mars and was in a few episodes of Charmed. Sarah aka Buffy is doing movies and is up for consideration for the title role of Wonder Woman (2007). The screenplay for Wonder Women is being written by Joss Whedon and he will direct the film. You might want to buy the DVD of Buffy and Angel. You can purchase all the seasons of each show. :smile:

eyh not much chance but we can still have hope!!

I can tell you that there is zero chance of Joss having time to do a spin off with him writing + directing Wonder Woman, Goner and hopefully Serenity sequel. So if something was to be continued it would be with Tim Minear and possibly other Buffy writers that aren't busy. The obvious choices for main characters are Spike or Faith, some talk of Willow but I think that would be a bad idea.

Personally I'd love a Faith spin off but if it happens its going to be a long time coming. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm just going to have to write my own fanfic to continue my Buffy obsession!

[quote=Hooked on Numbers;691051]......I can tell you that there is zero chance of Joss having time to do a spin off with him writing + directing Wonder Woman, Goner and hopefully Serenity sequel. .....quote]

There is going to be a Serenity sequel? :confused: Why would they do it since Serenity did so badly at the box office. It only made $25 million and cost $80 million to make.

I doubt there'd be a new Buffy spinoff; it's been so long since BtVS ended, and just like with Friends and Joey, a spinoff wouldn't be as popular as the original.

There is going to be a Serenity sequel? :confused: Why would they do it since Serenity did so badly at the box office. It only made $25 million and cost $80 million to make.

Its only a possibility at the moment but it did make around $40 million worldwide, its won a number of 'film of 2005' awards, plus the dvd has been selling really well in the US. Never under estimate the Browncoats, we got a blockbuster through buying everything Firefly so why can't we get a sequel the same way?

For awhile there was supposed to be "Ripper" which was a Giles spinoff, but that never happened. (My favourite character too, lol).

At a convention I was at, James Marsters mentioned that there was apparently a chance for a Spike spinoff but that has never happened either.

Everyone's moved onto other things now.

I don't think there would would be much of chance of anything ever happening now. Pity. Especially with the way that "Angel" ended... am I the only one who was pi$%^# off by that ending???


Kitten.

Its only a possibility at the moment but it did make around $40 million worldwide, its won a number of 'film of 2005' awards, plus the dvd has been selling really well in the US. Never under estimate the Browncoats, we got a blockbuster through buying everything Firefly so why can't we get a sequel the same way?

According to boxofficemojo here: http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=serenity.htm Serenity had a production budget of $39 million and it made $38,647,730 worldwide. It appears the $39 million does not include the money spent for marketing. So it did not break even.

With regard to a Serenity sequel, it appears there are a number of things going against it which include:

1. The original Serenity did not make enough money;
2. Joss Whedon is busy writing a screenplay for Wonder Woman (2007) which he will also direct;
3. Joss is also directing another movie before he directs Wonder Woman.

I just don't see it happening but time will tell.

Is anyone else here a fan of the TV shows Buffy the Vampire Slayer and/or Angel?

Fan would be an understatement. I love those shows, especially Buffy. Entertainment Weekly just named it the best TV show that came from a movie and one of the best TV shows of all time. I loved reading that since I'm fairly obsessed with it.

I used to be a big fan of both the shows, but now i've outgrown them. Despite that, it is hard not to admit that Spike and Angel were two of the best characters on television. I love David Boreanaz! ;)

Fan would be an understatement. I love those shows, especially Buffy. Entertainment Weekly just named it the best TV show that came from a movie and one of the best TV shows of all time. I loved reading that since I'm fairly obsessed with it.
I'm not sure that what they said in EW is that much of a compliment considering how many other shows have come from movies, but it's still good to be recognized, you know? About "fan would be an understatement": I'm with you there. I'm pretty obsessed with those shows. I don't even want to think about how much money I've spent on merchandise! :smile: I definitely agree that Buffy is one of the best TV shows. You can enjoy it on a surface level as entertainment, but if you look deeper, you can see the depth of the writing--metaphors, double meanings, foreshadowing, themes, etc.
Who is/are your favorite character(s) from either show?

I'm not sure that what they said in EW is that much of a compliment considering how many other shows have come from movies, but it's still good to be recognized, you know? About "fan would be an understatement": I'm with you there. I'm pretty obsessed with those shows. I don't even want to think about how much money I've spent on merchandise! :smile: I definitely agree that Buffy is one of the best TV shows. You can enjoy it on a surface level as entertainment, but if you look deeper, you can see the depth of the writing--metaphors, double meanings, foreshadowing, themes, etc.
Who is/are your favorite character(s) from either show?

Fan would be an understatement. I love those shows, especially Buffy. Entertainment Weekly just named it the best TV show that came from a movie and one of the best TV shows of all time. I loved reading that since I'm fairly obsessed with it.

I'm with you guys... my favorite character was Mr. Trick, I'm sad that more didn't happen wi th him. he really turned the vampire thing on it's ear. Other than that I liked Xander.

Gawsh I used to LOVE Buffy. My favorite character was actually Cordelia. She was so stuck up and snobby...loved it. Angel, of course, was awesome. I loved when they went out. Faith...eh...she was alright. Of course she could kick bootay. I liked Xander and Willow, they were great sidekicks. Anya grew on me. Loved Spike of course and I love the fact that she had a thing with him too, lol.

But after Buffy died and then rose again...I didn't really like it anymore. It lost something, I don't know, it seemed sort of depressing in a way. I'm really sad the series ended a few years ago. I really do miss it.

I used to be completly obsessed with Both Buffy and Angel.
I'm not as much now prob cause it has ended but i still watch it now and then.
I can't pic a fav Buffy eppi, i do love the musical one though
My fav Angel eppi is ''Smile time'' so funny couldn't stop laughing at it:biggrin:

I'm with you guys... my favorite character was Mr. Trick, I'm sad that more didn't happen wi th him. he really turned the vampire thing on it's ear. Other than that I liked Xander.
Do you mean because Mr. Trick was more of a modern vampire? For example, talking about ordering up someone on the internet that he could eat and the way he dressed. Yeah, he wasn't your typical vampire. Do you have any idea how old he was supposed to be? Perhaps he was turned in the 90s, and so he had a different attitude to being a vampire?
I like Xander as well. Xander and Anya are my fave characters, because I love their humor. Xander tried to be funny in that "class clown" kind of way, whereas Anya was funny because she was so brutally honest and just didn't really know any better.

Do you mean because Mr. Trick was more of a modern vampire?

Yes, that's what I mean. He was technologically proficient and dressed in suits, which I hadn't seen from a vamp before or since. And he thought outside the box...

And I have no clue how old he was... but I bet he was sired well before the 90's if he made friends with Alfalfa or whatever that demon's name was. So, he somehow got into computers while he was a vamp... he was very interesting.

And I loved Anya also... my favorite episode is still the Musical episode, I watch it once a year or so. I miss that show.

I'm not sure that what they said in EW is that much of a compliment considering how many other shows have come from movies, but it's still good to be recognized, you know? About "fan would be an understatement": I'm with you there. I'm pretty obsessed with those shows. I don't even want to think about how much money I've spent on merchandise! :smile: I definitely agree that Buffy is one of the best TV shows. You can enjoy it on a surface level as entertainment, but if you look deeper, you can see the depth of the writing--metaphors, double meanings, foreshadowing, themes, etc.
Who is/are your favorite character(s) from either show?

Actually, more than you might think, or at least more than I thought. Here's their top 5 list:

1. Buffy
2. The Odd Couple
3. M*A*S*H
4. Topper (really old)
5. Parenthood

"Blade" is going to be the newest addition to the "movies that went to television" genre, which is what prompted the list.

My favorite character is Spike, followed by Buffy, Willow, Anya, Cordelia in the early years, Angel, Xander, Giles. Unlike a lot of fans, I liked the darkness of Season 6. Season 7 was my least favorite.

Angel Season 5 would be my favorite because of the addition of Spike. I pretty much hate Connor (and don't get me started on the icky Connor-Cordelia relationship), so Season 4 that featured him was my least favorite. I like Wesley more in Angel than in Buffy because he was too buffoonish in Buffy.

I can (and do) watch the shows over and over. I actually just finished watching Season 6 and am trying to decide if I want to put up with the annoying Potentials and watch Season 7 also.

Actually, more than you might think, or at least more than I thought. Here's their top 5 list:

1. Buffy
2. The Odd Couple
3. M*A*S*H
4. Topper (really old)
5. Parenthood

"Blade" is going to be the newest addition to the "movies that went to television" genre, which is what prompted the list.

My favorite character is Spike, followed by Buffy, Willow, Anya, Cordelia in the early years, Angel, Xander, Giles. Unlike a lot of fans, I liked the darkness of Season 6. Season 7 was my least favorite.

Angel Season 5 would be my favorite because of the addition of Spike. I pretty much hate Connor (and don't get me started on the icky Connor-Cordelia relationship), so Season 4 that featured him was my least favorite. I like Wesley more in Angel than in Buffy because he was too buffoonish in Buffy.

I can (and do) watch the shows over and over. I actually just finished watching Season 6 and am trying to decide if I want to put up with the annoying Potentials and watch Season 7 also.

Season 7 is my fave, and I didn't mind the darkness of 6 either. The finale for 6 was brilliant.

Xander, Giles, Spike, Angel, Tara, Buffy, Dawn and then Willow are my list of favorites.
The Mayor was a very interesting villain also (before he turned into the giant snake).

I am the biggest Giles fan... :biggrin: I can even jump up and down and scream "I MET ANTHONY STEWART HEAD!!!" The guy is hilarious, lol.

I must be the only person ever who says that they loved the show "Buffy", but I absolutely hated the character of Buffy :24:

I am a fan of the earlier series. The later ones annoyed me.

I did like Angel. I lost interest during "Connor Time". But once he went, I was right back into it. Wesley was my favourite :)

Did anyone else REALLY hate the way that Angel ended??? I am talking about screaming at your TV kind of hate. Still makes me mad, LOL.


Kitten.

I am the biggest Giles fan... :biggrin: I can even jump up and down and scream "I MET ANTHONY STEWART HEAD!!!" The guy is hilarious, lol.

I must be the only person ever who says that they loved the show "Buffy", but I absolutely hated the character of Buffy :24:

I am a fan of the earlier series. The later ones annoyed me.

I did like Angel. I lost interest during "Connor Time". But once he went, I was right back into it. Wesley was my favourite :)

Did anyone else REALLY hate the way that Angel ended??? I am talking about screaming at your TV kind of hate. Still makes me mad, LOL.


Kitten.

Yes, I agree. The Angel ending was bad (except I did get a kick out of Spike's poetry reading). I don't think I screamed at my TV (I usually save that outburst for politicians), but I was disappointed.

You're not alone in your dislike of Buffy, as evidenced by many posts on the Buffyworld message board. Sometimes I like her, and sometimes I don't. I really didn't like the way she treated Spike in the later seasons, but I did like her in the earlier ones.

I didn't think the ending for Angel was bad, although it was incredibly sad. It's all about Angel and Co. continuing to fight the good fight because it's the right thing to do no matter whether they survive or not. It's pretty much what the whole show was about as well as being about redemption. I don't think it would have been a good idea for the show to have wrapped up everything just in case there would be comics, a spin-off show or TV movies. Also, it makes for a lot of opportunity to write some interesting fanfics.


Actually, more than you might think, or at least more than I thought. Here's their top 5 list:

1. Buffy
2. The Odd Couple
3. M*A*S*H
4. Topper (really old)
5. Parenthood

I've never heard of a few of those being movies. I was thinking more along the lines of stuff like Clueless.

Did anyone else REALLY hate the way that Angel ended???

I loved Everything about the finale except for the final few seconds... I wanted some type of closure to everything.

As time has passed I have come to understand why that ending happened and it's message and all, but I would still consider it to be the weakest closing to any other Angel or Buffy finale.

Longtime fan of both shows.

I actually liked the way Angel ended... I thought it was perfectly in tune with the theme of the show... that there is no "happy ending," no light at the end of the tunnel, no big reward... but we still fight for what's right, simply because it's the right thing to do.
So, not seeing what happened to them wasn't as important... The fact that the gang had been backsliding and compromising all season, and finally stood up to fight... that's what really mattered.

I really thought that Angel was the better of the two shows, although it was a very close race.

You know, I didn't like Dawn very much. She was just a whiny brat imo. Although the sister bond was definitely there...even though it was fake...? That stuff always confuzzled me.

I did like Willow and when her girlfriend was sadly killed and she went awol. Man, did she kick some tailfeathers!!

You know, I didn't like Dawn very much. She was just a whiny brat imo. Although the sister bond was definitely there...even though it was fake...? That stuff always confuzzled me.

I did like Willow and when her girlfriend was sadly killed and she went awol. Man, did she kick some tailfeathers!!

I'm a huge Buffy and Angel fan! I never liked Dawn either - it would have been a much better story if Dawn was killed by Glory in season 5. And I actually liked the Buffy/Spike sex relationship - it was pretty hot.

But Buffy and Angel were the best couple. When Buffy visited the Angel show and they slept together again, it was like they were made for each other. I always thought a movie would have been a good ending - Angel survives his last battle and he becomes human again and the live happily ever after, have kids, and grow old together. Ahhhhh.

Awww just like how Alias ended! And I agree...that Spike/Buffy fling was really hot. I liked Spike. He was eeeevil.

You know, I didn't like Dawn very much. She was just a whiny brat imo. Although the sister bond was definitely there...even though it was fake...? That stuff always confuzzled me.
Dawn is definitely my least favorite character on the show for the reason you mentioned, but I think she got a lot better in season 7. As for the second part, what exactly were you confused about? In the show, it was mentioned that the monks hid The Key in the form of a human sister and sent it to Buffy, because they knew she would protect her with her life. The monks also created memories in the people associated with Dawn as if she had always been there. In the episode Blood Ties, Buffy says something about them sharing Summers' blood, but I don't believe it was ever explained exactly how the monks were able to make Dawn from Summers' or Buffy's DNA. Then again, maybe we're just supposed to assume that since the monks were able to use major mojo to pull off other things regarding Dawn, they were able to use it to do this as well.
I did like Willow and when her girlfriend was sadly killed and she went awol. Man, did she kick some tailfeathers!!
No kidding. If you like Dark Willow, you might be interested in the Buffy series The Wicked Willow Trilogy.

Dawn is definitely my least favorite character on the show for the reason you mentioned, but I think she got a lot better in season 7. As for the second part, what exactly were you confused about? In the show, it was mentioned that the monks hid The Key in the form of a human sister and sent it to Buffy, because they knew she would protect her with her life. The monks also created memories in the people associated with Dawn as if she had always been there. In the episode Blood Ties, Buffy says something about them sharing Summers' blood, but I don't believe it was ever explained exactly how the monks were able to make Dawn from Summers' or Buffy's DNA. Then again, maybe we're just supposed to assume that since the monks were able to use major mojo to pull off other things regarding Dawn, they were able to use it to do this as well.

No kidding. If you like Dark Willow, you might be interested in the Buffy series The Wicked Willow Trilogy.

I think I used the wrong word. It didn't confuse me...it astonished me...there ya go! It's just if you get into the story and relate it to real life...that's just some freaky stuff! Going all through life being an only child and then the next moment having a sister and having memories of having a sister on top of that. I did like how Dawn was introduced...and they acted like it had always been that way!

The Wicked Willow Trilogy? Never heard of it...I should check it out.:)

I think I used the wrong word. It didn't confuse me...it astonished me...there ya go! It's just if you get into the story and relate it to real life...that's just some freaky stuff! Going all through life being an only child and then the next moment having a sister and having memories of having a sister on top of that. I did like how Dawn was introduced...and they acted like it had always been that way!
Yeah, ok, I get you now. Of course that would be weird to be an only child for 19 years of your life and then all of a sudden you've got this 14 year old sister.
The Wicked Willow Trilogy? Never heard of it...I should check it out.:)
The series came out in 2004 and was written by Yvonne Navarro who is a pretty good writer. The titles of the books are: The Darkening, Shattered Twilight and Broken Sunrise. It's called an alternate-history trilogy, which essentially means that it's a "What if?" storyline that doesn't alter the course of the show's actual storyline, if that makes sense? In any case, I thought it was pretty good.

Yeah, ok, I get you now. Of course that would be weird to be an only child for 19 years of your life and then all of a sudden you've got this 14 year old sister.

The series came out in 2004 and was written by Yvonne Navarro who is a pretty good writer. The titles of the books are: The Darkening, Shattered Twilight and Broken Sunrise. It's called an alternate-history trilogy, which essentially means that it's a "What if?" storyline that doesn't alter the course of the show's actual storyline, if that makes sense? In any case, I thought it was pretty good.

What I'm looking forward to is the "Buffy" comic book that Joss is doing... that's gonna be a lot of fun.

I want to see what Buffy has really been up to.

What I'm looking forward to is the "Buffy" comic book that Joss is doing... that's gonna be a lot of fun.

I want to see what Buffy has really been up to.
Oh yeah, that should be interesting. I'm not into comics, but I think I'd be willing to get that one. I also want to get one or two of the Angel: Spotlight comics, especially the one that's about Doyle.

Can anyone help me identify this quote? I'm reading a book that brought it to mind, and I just can't remember who said it and in what context. I'm sure it was on "Angel." I was going to pose this question on the Buffyworld site, but I couldn't get into it. Anyway, here it is:

"Never go for the kill when you can go for the pain."

This is driving me crazy, so I hope someone can help!

D'Hoffryn said that to Anya in "Selfless", the whole line was "Haven't I taught you anything, Anya? Never go for the kill when you can go for the pain.".

(Not that I could remember, I simply googled the whole sentence... :grin:)

D'Hoffryn said that to Anya in "Selfless", the whole line was "Haven't I taught you anything, Anya? Never go for the kill when you can go for the pain.".

(Not that I could remember, I simply googled the whole sentence... :grin:)

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This has been driving me crazy since Monday. I Googled it myself, but I ended up with a bunch of song lyrics about pain.

I thought it was Angel because it seemed too dark to have been a Buffy character, but now it all makes sense!

Who here reads the Buffy novels?

Who here reads the Buffy novels?

I haven't read any of them because I heard they're not kind to the Spuffy relationship. Do you read them? If so, do you enjoy all of them, or are some a lot better than others?

I've probably read most of the novels. Some of them are better than others :)


Kitten.

I haven't read any of them because I heard they're not kind to the Spuffy relationship. Do you read them? If so, do you enjoy all of them, or are some a lot better than others?
I've read about 35 or 36 of them. I think I've only come across maybe a few that aren't that great. You can't really go wrong with books by Christopher Golden either written by just himself or co-written by him. If you let something like the Spuffy relationship deter you from reading the books, you're really missing out on some good stories. I don't think that any of the books have much to do with their relationship and what there is isn't made out to be any different to how it was portrayed on TV.

Oooh... awesome thread... BtVS & Angel are two of my fave all time shows... in fact... have a look at my posting name... Drugal97 ... no it's not Drug-Al... haha... as it's often mistaken for... it's actually Dru-Gal 97... first screenname I ever had... Dru being for Drusilla...

Spike is actually my all-time favorite character... (I love the baddies w/the good side... a la Sawyer)....

If anyone is interested... there's an awesome podcast called "Buffy Buff Cast" that is rehashing the old eps... it's got quite a following...

I've read about 35 or 36 of them. I think I've only come across maybe a few that aren't that great. You can't really go wrong with books by Christopher Golden either written by just himself or co-written by him. If you let something like the Spuffy relationship deter you from reading the books, you're really missing out on some good stories. I don't think that any of the books have much to do with their relationship and what there is isn't made out to be any different to how it was portrayed on TV.

What I read was that there's one writer in particular, whose name I can't remember of course, who pretty much ignored the Spuffy relationship as if it had never happened. I just don't want to read a book that isn't faithful to the show's history.

I'll check out the Christopher Golden books first and give them a try. Thanks for the recommendation.

What I read was that there's one writer in particular, whose name I can't remember of course, who pretty much ignored the Spuffy relationship as if it had never happened. I just don't want to read a book that isn't faithful to the show's history.
I seem to recall reading that as well. I don't think there were very many books written based in seasons 5-7 anyway.
I'll check out the Christopher Golden books first and give them a try. Thanks for the recommendation.
No problem. He's a really good writer. I also quite like books written by Nancy Holder. I'll give you a list of great recommendations:
The Lost Slayer (either as a 4 part series or the all-in-one edition)
Spike and Dru: Pretty Maids All In a Row
Immortal
Tales of the Slayer Vol. 1
The Evil That Men Do
The Wicked Willow Trilogy
The Gatekeeper Trilogy
The Book of Fours

I don't know if you read Angel novels, but if you don't, I think Jeff Mariotte is another great author.

I seem to recall reading that as well. I don't think there were very many books written based in seasons 5-7 anyway.

No problem. He's a really good writer. I also quite like books written by Nancy Holder. I'll give you a list of great recommendations:
The Lost Slayer (either as a 4 part series or the all-in-one edition)
Spike and Dru: Pretty Maids All In a Row
Immortal
Tales of the Slayer Vol. 1
The Evil That Men Do
The Wicked Willow Trilogy
The Gatekeeper Trilogy
The Book of Fours

I don't know if you read Angel novels, but if you don't, I think Jeff Mariotte is another great author.

Thanks a lot. Off to Amazon to order some books (through the 'lage link, of course)! I'll let you know how I like them. :)

Thanks a lot. Off to Amazon to order some books (through the 'lage link, of course)! I'll let you know how I like them. :)
Great. :)
How did everyone here get into watching Buffy and/or Angel?

I had a few friends who watched the shows, so they pretty much encouraged me. I started watching Buffy first and liked it. With Angel, I tried watching some season 3 eps as they first aired on TV, but I didn't like the show because I didn't get what was going on and who these new characters were. Lorne especially seemed quite weird to me. In the summer of 2002, I decided that I'd give the show another chance if I could watch it from the beginning and that's what I did. I watched all 3 seasons just in time for the start of season 4 on TV.

Great. :)
How did everyone here get into watching Buffy and/or Angel?

I had a few friends who watched the shows, so they pretty much encouraged me. I started watching Buffy first and liked it. With Angel, I tried watching some season 3 eps as they first aired on TV, but I didn't like the show because I didn't get what was going on and who these new characters were. Lorne especially seemed quite weird to me. In the summer of 2002, I decided that I'd give the show another chance if I could watch it from the beginning and that's what I did. I watched all 3 seasons just in time for the start of season 4 on TV.

When I was young I liked the movie (yeah... I know) and then remembered the title when it became a television show. I watched the beginning of the first episode (enter: Darla) but it was scary and serious, so I decided that I couldn't be bothered.

A year later I heard on the radio that one of Buffy's friends would betray her and another would die. It was Rare back then for a major character to be killed off of anything, so I started watching (at "Surprise") and was a little confused but the show was funny. Then, after "Passion" I was an addict.

Still am.

Although I am a huge horror movie fan, I didn't start watching Buffy until it was in reruns on fx. I think I started viewing with Season 7 in the winter of 2004, and I loved it so much I started buying the DVDs. Then I started watching Angel, which by then was in Season 5, and got hooked on that also so bought all the Angel DVDs. I have watched them over and over since discovering them. They're addictive!

I started watching Buffy waaay back in the day, and it was good. Heck, I think I was in freakin middle school when that show began (they were showing season 6 when I was a freshman in college). I later got into Angel and it became (at the time) my favorite TV show ever. The characters are so well written, and the show has a much darker tone than Buffy did. Seasons 3 and 4 of Angel are ridiculously good. I was mad when the show got cancelled, but since then I have luckily had other shows that helped soften the blow. Lost is one of them.

What seasons of each show are your favorites?

For Buffy, my faves are seasons 3 and 4. I think they've got so many good eps and I like that season 3 introduced the characters Wesley, Anya, Faith and The Mayor. I thought The Mayor was a great villain. He could be talking about something horrible like wanting someone decpitated and then ask if Faith wanted to go for mini-golf.

For Angel, season 1 was my fave, because of Doyle.

What seasons of each show are your favorites?

For Buffy, my faves are seasons 3 and 4. I think they've got so many good eps and I like that season 3 introduced the characters Wesley, Anya, Faith and The Mayor. I thought The Mayor was a great villain. He could be talking about something horrible like wanting someone decpitated and then ask if Faith wanted to go for mini-golf.

For Angel, season 1 was my fave, because of Doyle.

The last seasons were my favorite... with Buffy I felt like the quality went up each season and season 7 was like a 22 hour movie.

Angel's season 5 was brilliant because of the Angel/Spike dynamic.

My favorite season was when Faith was on and Angel and Buffy were together. They were so cute when they were finally a couple. Oh and at first, I didn't like Anya because I didn't get her humor, but then soon I realized that that's just the way Anya is and so I decided to like her. Man! I'm so mad at what happened to her in the last episode ever. Wasn't that just a horrible way to go?!!!

Man! I'm so mad at what happened to her in the last episode ever. Wasn't that just a horrible way to go?!!!
Yeah, but at least it was quick. Her character had pretty much come full-circle. At the end of season 3 when they were facing the mayor's ascension, she left town as quickly as she could, but this time she stuck around because it seemed like the right thing to do.

I have a question.

I watched seasons 1-3/4 of Buffy and I really enjoyed them but was put off to the show after Angel left for good. I'm just now starting to get back into the series to finish it out. My question is, I loved the character of Angel but was wondering if the TV show Angel was any good? Is it as good as Buffy, or possibly better?

I have a question.

I watched seasons 1-3/4 of Buffy and I really enjoyed them but was put off to the show after Angel left for good. I'm just now starting to get back into the series to finish it out. My question is, I loved the character of Angel but was wondering if the TV show Angel was any good? Is it as good as Buffy, or possibly better?

That depends on who you ask I guess. My opinion is that the first season of "Angel" is it's worst, but it's still pretty good mainly because of the several crossovers with "Buffy". After that the show keeps getting better (except for season 4) and then season 5 it was at it's best.

I don't think that it was ever as good as "Buffy" though. But there are lots who disagree.

I disliked the last season or 2 of Buffy. The storyline held very little interest for me, so in my opinion, Angel was better then.

Until it came to the whole Connor storyline... I put that on par with the last 2 seasons of Buffy... boring and pointless.

Matter of opinion I guess. If you haven't watched Angel I recommend that you do. It was a good series :)


Kitten.

Thanks guys, I'll check it out after I finish the long list of tv shows I have going for me at the moment :)

Angel is definitely worth watching. I don't think that there were any bad storylines in the series.

See, I've only seen a few Angel's. Not that many and I keep hearing great things about it. Question though, in Angel,

Did Cordelia die?

That was just something on my mind.

Cordelia was like my favorite part of Buffy in the beginning of the series. She was so snotty, I loved it.

See, I've only seen a few Angel's. Not that many and I keep hearing great things about it. Question though, in Angel,

Did Cordelia die?

That was just something on my mind.

Cordelia was like my favorite part of Buffy in the beginning of the series. She was so snotty, I loved it.
To answer your question

Yes, Cordelia died. In season 4, she "gave birth" to a former Power That Be named Jasmine, then she fell into a coma that she never woke up from.

omg....thank you for answering my question...


Poor Cordelia! That's right! I think I saw the episode where Jasmine went on a rampage or something? Poor Cordy! I really liked her character a lot and to know how their lives end is just too sad. Did she have a fling with Angel? Poor Cordy!!


I have to watch Angel.

omg....thank you for answering my question...
No problem!


Poor Cordelia! That's right! I think I saw the episode where Jasmine went on a rampage or something? Poor Cordy! I really liked her character a lot and to know how their lives end is just too sad. Did she have a fling with Angel? Poor Cordy!!


I have to watch Angel.
I'm not sure what you mean by Jasmine going on a rampage. Are you talking about when she got really ticked off that Fred had broken the spell that Jasmine had over Gunn, Wesley, Lorne and Angel and tried to get her loyal followers to chase them down? As for Cordelia having a fling with Angel: No, that didn't happen. The closest that they got was at the end of season 3 when they were going to meet and reveal that they love each other.
I agree that you've got to watch the show. There's just so much that goes on that's much better to see for yourself rather than having it be explained.

Yea you're absolutely right. Because now I just confused mysefl with that whole Jasmine thing, lol.

I have to get Angel now!

The boxsets are absolutely worth it. I love the season 3 gag reel--David B seems to love to swear a lot!

To answer your question

Yes, Cordelia died. In season 4, she "gave birth" to a former Power That Be named Jasmine, then she fell into a coma that she never woke up from.


Technically,though, she didn't die until Season 5, in the epi, "You're Welcome." (which one of my favorites through the entire run.)


I can't remember when I started watching, but I do know that I bought Season 2 of Buffy before I'd even seen any of the first season. And I was hooked. Season 3 is probably my favorite, especially the second half, with Faith going "bad girl."

Technically,though, she didn't die until Season 5, in the epi, "You're Welcome." (which one of my favorites through the entire run.)


Yeah, I know.

Another great thing about Angel the Series is the brief appearance of Sawyer the Vampire at the opening scenes of episode one. I had to go back to the beginning and watch it over when I saw Josh Holloway's name in the credits. I was like "Dude! No way!"

I'd forgotten about that! "City Of..." is one of my favourite Angel episodes and its teaser is so strong. "Girls are nice." :laugh: I remember being so excited seeing Josh Holloway in there.

And yes, Angel is awesome. I actually prefer it to Buffy, and I think it has some of the best character arcs I've ever seen. Buy it now! :)

I'm one of those probably less-critical fans who loves BtVS and AtS equally for different reasons. Of course I think Connor could have been alot less petulant/patricidal but that's just one of those "take it with a grain of salt" story-elements in the building of a classic show/cultural icon.

Has anyone ever read any of the academic books written about either show like that one Seven Seasons of Buffy?

A scholarly site called Slayage.tv can direct you to such books as those...

I'm just asking if anyone's read them to see what their opinions are on them, but thanks anyway.

I've read parts of them on the website. The topics are odd and interesting but heavy on the Proffessor-speak...

Has anyone read the latest Angel graphic novel Masks?

I didn't know there was one. Any word on the Spike and Buffy comics/graphic novels that are supposed to be coming up?

I think the Buffy "season 8" comics that Joss is doing might be coming out next year? I'm not sure which Spike comics you're thinking of, though. In the latest issues of the Buffy and Angel mags, there's an ad for some Spike series called Asylum. The Spike vs. Dracula series has also been released as a graphic novel which seems to sell for about $20.

But I don't want the Buffy/Angel thread to end!

Yes SayidSawyerFan it was the Spike Asylum mags I was thinking of. At least I believe so.

Has anyone gotten other people into either show? A few of my friends got me into Buffy and Angel and in turn, I've gotten another friend into both shows. The friend who I got into them now owns all 7 seasons of Buffy and she's borrowed all of my Angel boxsets and watched all of the eps.

Has anyone gotten other people into either show? A few of my friends got me into Buffy and Angel and in turn, I've gotten another friend into both shows. The friend who I got into them now owns all 7 seasons of Buffy and she's borrowed all of my Angel boxsets and watched all of the eps.

Of course ;)

My mom and my little brother got me into it...and then I got a couple of friends into it. My mom's now getting my dad into it...they've been watching all the DVD's for a couple of years now...and he's slowly seeing the whole thing. They're at Angel season 5 now.

I got my mom to watch the Fifth season of Angel while it was still on the air. She got to see puppet Angel vs. Spike at the same time I did.

Angel never should have been cancelled. It should have all been up to Joss to decide when the show should end. I think a sixth season would have been enough.

Hallelujah! He seemed like he was only going to extend it til then anyway. He even said so. Couldn't those idiots have waited just one more year, considering how massively popular the show still was? In this case, it was just flushing lucrative advertising/consumer dollars down the drain, from a strictly business oriented sense.

Do you remember when, I think it was, The Mountain took over Angel's spot for the 2004-2005 season and it's ratings were about half that of Angel's were the previous year? Cancelling Angel bit them on the butt and then some woman from the network even said something about it being a mistake that they cancelled it. No duh! The Mountain didn't last long, whereas Angel had a pretty good following. It seems that The WB never treated Angel as well as they should have.

Wow. That's a good point. I don't even remember the Mountain from that time. I'm sure Joss didn't fail to notice that. I'll bet it was one of the reasons, besides the loss of Firefly, that he was pissed that they cancelled his show before its time.

I think that the peeps at The WB should have bent over backwards to please Joss seeing as Buffy was such a huge show for the network and practically put it on the map as so to speak. If it wasn't for Buffy, then they probably wouldn't have had Dawson's Creek, Felicity, Charmed, Angel of course, and who knows how many other supernatural and teen-related shows.

I look at the Country and Western network the same way I do Blotime for having cancelled Dead Like Me. The shows that replaced them directly are now long gone, and the ratings have never been as high... Although I like Smallville and Supernatural, I never watch them as regularly as I once did Angel, or over on FErreT, Firefly, which I watched, along with John Doe, faithfully until both shows were cancelled.

Nice names for the networks. :biggrin:
I just finished re-reading The Wicked Willow Trilogy this morning.

I read that too. Personally, after all the things she did in those books, if I were Xander I would have lost all warm, fuzzy yellow crayon feelings toward her and would have killed her. The end.

That was so horrible what she did in the series, but he had to forgive her to bring the series back in line with what happened in the show. If things happened on the show the way they did in the books, I don't think things would have ended up so nicely for Willow. Giles may have tried to find a way to suck all of the power out of her even if it meant killing her in the process.

Yeah, I just thought the books carried it too far. Maybe one book of her carrying on, but, I would have thought, as soon as ghost Tara showed up, that would have brought it to an end, or at least speedily facilitated Xander's yellow crayon gambit...

I agree - the Willow books made me wish I hadn't read the books....just like the book that took place 'after' the finale....

Oh, and not to just jump in to all of your fine conversation but hey, huge Buffy/Angel fan here that's excited to see people still discussing this show!! :D

Oh no, the more the merrier. I'm a member of at least four other Buffy/Angel related sites. In fact I just rewatched "The Initiative" of season 4 with a friend this afternoon...

I did a complete rewatch from S1 - S7 over the summer.
What is everyone's favorite season??

I really love S2 and S3, but as a Spike/Buffy fan - obviously there are fine moments in S6 and S7 that make those seasons shine for me. S6 was too depressing overall though...

Season 3 is my favorite. I love that it has the introductions of Anya and Wesley and then there's the whole Faith/Mayor storyline. I thought The Mayor was a great villain. He could be so evil and also have this nice, fatherly side to him. He'd be saying stuff like "I want you to go and maim this guy and then I'll take you out for a root beer float." I love the To Do list that he had in one of the episodes--there was all of this normal stuff on that like "get haircut" "photo op" "become invincible" "PTA meeting"

I like seasons 5,6, and 7 the best coz they have Dawn and/or Tara in them.

What do you guys think is the most gross thing that ever happened on the show? For me, it's definitely when Xander had his eye poked out by Caleb in Dirty Girls.

I've always found vampires fascinating for supernatural reasons, sucking blood itself, say out of Drac's wrist by Buffy in Season 5, has actually always grossed me out. I don't find it the least bit erotic. Never have.

I'm reading this great Buffy novel right now called Portal Through Time that came out a few months ago. Some vampires are trying to bring back The Master and so they're trying to go back through time to kill slayers from the past so that Buffy wouldn't be the slayer in 1997 when she killed him. Buffy and the Scooby Gang go back in time to stop the vamps from killing the slayers.

That sounds pretty cool, I need to get back into reading the Buffy/Angel novels again.

I'm reading this great Buffy novel right now called Portal Through Time that came out a few months ago. Some vampires are trying to bring back The Master and so they're trying to go back through time to kill slayers from the past so that Buffy wouldn't be the slayer in 1997 when she killed him. Buffy and the Scooby Gang go back in time to stop the vamps from killing the slayers.


Ooh that sounds good - what season of the show is this one set in?

Has anyone heard about whether there would be another novel following the one that picked up after the series finale? I haven't followed my Buffy stuff in a while, regretably.

ETA: And to comment on the "grossest thing on the show" query above -- I found the eye being poked out by Caleb more heartwrenchingly disturbing than gross. That gross fat demon in "Band Candy" who was going to eat babies always had me looking away from the TV!!

Good news, according to TV Guide Online, Joss Whedon, all his writing regulars and Dark Horse comics are doing a graphic 8th season of Buffy. The first two pages are even shown at the TVGuide site...

Ooh that sounds good - what season of the show is this one set in?
Season two before Angel lost his soul and became Angelus. It's a really, really good book. I read it pretty quickly and I'd highly recommend it. It's a Buffy story mixed with a bit of a history lesson.

Is the author a familiar name from any of the other Buffy/Angel books?

Is the author a familiar name from any of the other Buffy/Angel books?
It's by Alice Henderson. I think she only wrote one other book and it was one of those Buffy 'Stake Your Destiny' books called Night Terrors.

You must be pretty thrilled about the last two epis of LOST...

I forget, was the novel in question for Alice Henderson Portal Through Time? Hey, maybe The Master is Jacob and controls the Others from an underground installation. Spike and Sawyer. Now there's an interesting combination. Angel could stare at Sawyer and say, "Haven't I seen you somewhere before?"

You must be pretty thrilled about the last two epis of LOST...
Enter 77 was awesome! The thing is, I'd love to rip Sami and the eyepatch guy a new one for how they beat the daylights out of him. No one hurts my Sayid and gets away with it! :mad:

I forget, was the novel in question for Alice Henderson Portal Through Time?
Yep.
Hey, maybe The Master is Jacob and controls the Others from an underground installation. Spike and Sawyer. Now there's an interesting combination. Angel could stare at Sawyer and say, "Haven't I seen you somewhere before?"
Ha ha! That'd be funny if there was some sort of Lost/Buffy or Lost/Angel crossover. Speaking of crossovers, I recently read a Grey's Anatomy/Angel crossover fanfic. I don't know if you're familiar with the GA characters, but in the story Alex has been keeping a secret from his boyfriend. By day, he's a doctor and by night he hunts vampires, because his family are vampire hunters and Spike ends up in Seattle and hunts vampires with him.

That's a blast as far as fanfic ideas go. I always think of an X-Files crossover with Gray's Anatomy just coz of the title. (One of the "Grays" on an autopsy table, its anatomy being examined)

I swear, some people come up with some crazy ideas. Crossovers are almost always a way for hilarity to ensue. You've got two different worlds colliding.

I'm a high schooler *:(

I liked both BtVS and Angel. *They are completely different shows. *You can't really compare them fairly. *They exist within the same world, but have a different message they tried to convey. *

And BtVS isn't a show for the stereotypical high schooler. *The O.C. is that kind of show. *Most of my peers can't appreciate the show. *I've tried converting many of them, and it doesn't work.

TRoss, of course it was a rush job. The ratings were doubled. They didn't expect to be cancelled.

I'm a high schooler, too. I started watching BtVS off DVDs, and I've seen a couple episodes of Angel. I love BtVS - my friends say I'm obbsessed.

theG - you're totally right when you say that they can't be compared. The whole mood is entirely different.

I haven't picked up the season 8 Buffy Dark Horse comic yet, but I'm going to, oh yes.

I hope that the Buffy season 8 comics will eventually be released in volumes of multiple issues. They seem to be selling out within days and not everyone has easy access to comic book stores that may sell the individual comics.

I haven't even figured out where the new comic book store in town is, the old ones all appear to have gone out of business. Maybe Anya's really fearsome Monty Python Bunny with really sharp teeth, as feared the Sorcerer Jim, has devoured them.

Last week, I went to one of the malls in town that has this huge bookstore and lo and behold, out of the handful of comic books they have there, they actually had issue #1! I'm going again tomorrow, so I hope they have issue #2.

That reminds me, need to hunt down the local comic book store and check that out. Btw, if you ever watched Dead Like Me, Ellen, who played George, and Crystal who played the creepy secretary/office Ninja of the same first name at Happy Time have both announced and shown the link to the MGM notice that a new movie, most likely direct-to-dvd, is in production now...

A Dead Like Me movie? I'll have to pass on that info to a friend who likes the show.

And behold, the DLM movie is coming to pass, put it in a thread...

I've finally caught up on the first three issues of Buffy Season 8, and overall, I'm pretty happy with the results. I'm not like some who seem to kinda get worked up if Joss changes his own canon/storyline around a bit, y'know with Warren and all that. I'm actually ok with the plot shakeup.

I've read the first four issues and it's interesting. The character introductions have been good. I thought it was hilarious in issue #3 where a dream of Buffy's is shown with her dressed up in a nurse outfit and she's lying in between naked Angel and naked Spike. Giant Dawn in issue #2 bathing herself in a huge pool by a waterfall was quite comical as well. I think the covers have been pretty good so far.

My personal top favorite, is when as you read on, you realize that Buffy's been dreaming about having sex with Xander, apparently more than once.

And when her and Ethan-in-her-dreams are watching all those memory cubes fly by, one has what appears to be Joss Whedon on it. (First Xander, then Joss? Xuffy? Joffy?)

I love those comic books. First comic books I've bought in over 10 years, but they feel like seeing old friends againa fter a long time.

Hey, I remember you from over at the "Loved It!!!" threads! Easy posting name to remember. I hope Smokey appears as Eko soon...

And I feel just the same way about "season 8" as you just posted...

Hey, I remember you from over at the "Loved It!!!" threads! Easy posting name to remember. I hope Smokey appears as Eko soon...

And I feel just the same way about "season 8" as you just posted...

Smokey as Eko... yeah, that'd be great. Or maybe even another flashback episode that includes him.

And I hope that Giles is more involved in the second Buffy arc... he's Da Man.

Dude, I've got it! The fourth season eye opens, and its Anthony Stewart Head!!!!

Dude, I've got it! The fourth season eye opens, and its Anthony Stewart Head!!!!

Anthony Stewart Head as Jocob... I'd watch that.

Oh yeah, me too. Although here's the twist. Richard and the Others make it to the temple, where, he, fully corporealized and outside of his shack, after all if that ring of powder/soot was keeping him in, Locke broke the line and Ben is too busy being a prisoner again to do anything about it at the moment, is waiting for them. ASH, from the ashes...

My personal top favorite, is when as you read on, you realize that Buffy's been dreaming about having sex with Xander, apparently more than once.

And when her and Ethan-in-her-dreams are watching all those memory cubes fly by, one has what appears to be Joss Whedon on it. (First Xander, then Joss? Xuffy? Joffy?)
I gotta try to see that.

It's kinda like where's Waldo. But he's slipped in there.

BTw. Arrgggh!! The bookstore in this one-horse city has yet to stock the 5th issue, and I've already seen a banner ad at the Bronze (Bater) hawking the 6th!

I found Joss. I didn't know who that was supposed to be when I originally read the comic.

Sweet. What'd you think of Buffy's nameless impostor and her story?

The fairies and the slug creature thing were supposed to be making her over to look like Buffy right? I wasn't sure about the part where that one fairy said something to her about eggs in her ear. The commercial with Andrew and Vi was pretty funny, though.
As for the Buffy decoy, it's kind of sad. One day, she's talking to her friends at school, then all of a sudden she's hit by the Slayer power and recruited to be a fake Buffy and killed off probably a few days or so later. What she did was for the greater good of course, but she had probably the shortest Slayer career in history. She said that she'd never been to Rome like one of the other Buffy decoys and now she'll never have the chance.

That poignancy is exactly why I liked that issue when others I know said they hated it, even when they've liked the 8th season series overall.

Vi is without a doubt my favorite of all the Slayerettes. Next to her its Kennedy. Yeah, everybody hated her in the fandom, but I was with whatever, and whoever made Willow happy. I'm sorry Iyari Limon got such a negative reaction. I think Joss is going to write her character out almost solely because of it.

I've never really had much of an opinion on the Potentials from season 7, but I also never hated Kennedy, either. I think she totally got a raw deal. I mean, Willow was with Oz for a while, then she was with Tara even longer than that and so it's hard to be the newbie because it feels like they're trying to replace whoever came before.

I thought her character even got a fair amount of development for one season, I think people just didn't like her brash, abrasively bouncy personality. And her character still could have stood alot more in the development department, but due to so many of those negative reactions, we may never find out what Joss might have planned for her. Trying to compete with a ghost might have had some interesting situation implications...:cool: (see, ghost-smiley thinks itd've been cool):biggrin:

Joss is great when it comes to character development, no doubt. Who would have thought when they first saw Cordelia, that she'd go from being such a popular, self-centered witch with a b to becoming part demon and helping so many people out because it's the right thing to do and to make the world a better place?

And now she's a Higher Power.:hypocrit:

Yeah. Wesley had quite a lot of development as well, especially for someone who was meant to be killed off at the end of Buffy's third season. It's crazy how some of these characters were originally meant to be killed off early on and then they just keep going and going like the Energizer bunny.

Gahh! The stuff I learn! I had no idea Wesley was supposed to be killed off at the end of the 3rd season! That's like just finding out the other day over at the Bronze Beta that Joss was Numfar... (*sob* Numfar, do the dance of shame!")

Wow! I've known about that stuff for ages. It's hilarious to know that Joss was actually dressed up as a demon and doing that ridiculous dance. I just found the other day that Joss was in an ep of Firefly.

What epi was he in, and what character did he play?

I haven't seen the episode for ages, but he's supposed to be in The Message. There's a funeral scene and he's part of the crowd.

Have to spy him out. Man, can't believe Firefly only had one season...

More like about half a season. Stupid Fox. They've had so many good shows and then screwed them over.

That's why some people spell FOX with a U...

I thought some of you might want to see this. If you live in LA, you can meet some of the Buffy/Angel people on the picket lines. PhillyGirl posted this at the 'lage, it is from Brian K. Vaughn's myspace page:

For those of you who live in Los Angeles (or who can drive cross-country fast), support the WGA strike this Friday morning and meet Joss Whedon, a ton of other amazing Buffy/Angel/Firefly writers, Eliza Dushku, Alexis Denisof, Nathan Fillion, Summer Glau, Amy Acker, and if you're lucky, maybe a certain bald, disgustingly bearded comic scribe/Mutant Enemy hanger-on! All of the details can be found here: http://www.fans4writers.com/forum/index.php?board=38.0 (http://www.fans4writers.com/forum/index.php?board=38.0)

That's why some people spell FOX with a U...
Ha ha!

In the last few weeks, I've finally gotten my hands on issues 6-8 of the season 8 series. It seemed like this store that carries them weren't getting them in anymore, but they still are. Looks like my friend and I weren't going there at the right times for the past few months or they stopped getting them in and started up again. In any case, we're almost caught up with the issues.

Yeah, we're a month behind, I just got issue 7 a couple of weeks ago...:drowsy:

This Faith arc is pretty good, IMO. I really need to find out how it concludes in issue 9.

Oooh, we're on page 23!

Yes, more Faith, please.

This is sort of a Nancy Holder,'s Queen of the Slayers, type storyline, eh? (haven't read alot of that one, but enough to draw the comparison) Wonder if they should have given her some credit for at least the concept.

Yeah, there is a similarity between the two.

Have you started Angel yet? Unfortunately, though Buffy shows up, they don't sell it at the stores around here...

I've never seen the season 6 comics anywhere, yet. I could always order them online, but I don't know if I want to.

Yeah, I'm gonna have a tough time when all music, movie, and tv sales go to iTunes and mp3s, as I don't give my financial information out over the internet...

I don't have a problem with that. There are lots of secure sites. I just don't get buying certain things over the internet like computers. I mean, first off, they're expensive and second, you want to see stuff like that in person and be able to ask questions to computer experts at whatever store, you know?

A friend of mine actually seems be good at finding computers on line, although I wouldn't do it either, without his advice. Unless youve got somebody who knows what to look for, there's alot of things, especially electronics-wise, I'd avoid buying online. Some websites let you mail a check or money-order... I do that.

Do you have any Buffy or Angel action figures? If so, which?

For me, dedication is having most of the books, though not all, and every single dvd set of both series. People think I'm geeky enough for all of that. Not that I wasn't tempted to buy that Swan Hatch set with Locke and I forget who else (action figures, not me having delusions and thinking I was in Locke's company at the time I walked in) when I saw it at FYE music store...

I've got tons of Buffy and Angel stuff. Calendars, t-shirts, soundtrack CDs, comics, a few action figures, trading cards, card games and stickers not to mention the myriad of books.

I have a "Spike Lives" bumper sticker, which I will of course never put on a car. (Unless I had two copies)

I wouldn't, either. I'd love to get this doll of Drusilla that costs around $45. She's wearing this dark red dress and coat with like a fur collar.

Some seem more accurately than others, sometimes even by the same companies. Personally, I want my comic book characters and action figures to look like the actors that played them...

Yeah, like the face on the Kate figure is a bit weird but some of the others have the likenesses captured really well.

I missed yet another issue of season 8, the last part of the Faith/Giles adventure. I may just simply stop trying to keep up, and just buy the omnibus books. If they can't leave the previous months issues on the shelf like every other magazine, I'll just have to wait for that. I pretty much give up.

I think that comic books should just be left on the shelves until they've sold out. Not everyone is able to get to the stores right when the things come out, you know? They should be treated sort of like regular books unless there ends up being tons of copies left and they need to make room for newer ones. Then again, they could always designate a bigger space for them or something.

It makes the simplest sort of common and good business sense. If other magazine publishers can afford to do it, like the aforementioned guitar and musician ones, then why can't they?

I don't know. Maybe there's a conspiracy.

All things are a conspiracy. Of atoms, organs, minerals, musicans...television and movie producers...