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I'm enjoying this thread, and everyone here seems to be posting intelligently, so let me throw this out there. Feel free to tear it apart, because I've only just come up with it.
What if the MIB is the island? The voice/eye/persona of the island. John Locke saw the monster in "Walkabout," lied about it to Michael, told Jack he'd looked into the "eye of the island," kept wanting to talk "to the island," etc. Smokey-Locke told Ben that "the island told" him exactly when to take Richard to extract the bullet from Locke's leg after he'd been shot by Ethan. He knew when to appear standing in the water in a suit so that the Ajira people would find him.
Maybe the ash at the temple is to keep Jacob out? We all assumed it meant the MIB, but I looked back at the transcript and all Lennon says is the ash is to "keep him out." Hurley asks who, but of course Lennon doesn't answer!
So, Smokey hangs out underneath the temple and possibly guards it. Jacob recognized him instantly as not-Locke; maybe when we saw the MIB on the beach, it was Smokey appearing as someone else. So really, that scene at the start of "The Incident" could have been Jacob talking to the island! Jacob keeps bringing people to the island; the island is displeased. The island keeps moving through time and/or space. And all it wants to do is go home. Where does it belong? At the bottom of the ocean? Is Jacob enslaving it somehow? "Only fools are enslaved by time and space."
Okay, chop away, because the more I type, the more I'm starting to think it might be true.
Flocke said he was not a what, but a who... and TPTB said Smokey was as old as the Island. Jacob said he's [MIB is] an old friend who got tired of Jacob's company...
Why does he have this Smokey ability? If he did return home would it be to his past?
TPTB also said Smokey couldn't cross the smoke barrier because it can't detach itself completely from the ground. But then how did Smokey cross from Hydra to the main island in the boat with Ben?
I keep thinking of the first Star Trek: The Next Generation episode, about a very large alien entity that was trapped on a planet. It was disguised as "Farpoint Station." It just wanted to leave and rejoin its family in space. Its captors were draining its energy or something so that it couldn't leave. That would explain the distinction between a what and a who, and the unique properties of the island.
Why did the island flash Locke around in time the way it did? Flashed to before Locke's birth to plant the notion in Richard's mind that Locke was the future leader with no other qualifications or evidence? Flashed to a time after Locke's death so that "the island/MIB" could tell Locke he had to die? If the MIB is not the island, they are certainly working in harmony.
I believe that every time John Locke said "the island" he actually meant "the monster" - though he didn't know it. That is sometimes true for Ben, too -- but at other times Ben just lies. Ben and John are the favorite tools of the monster.
Smokey minus MIB's soul was formal Christian. Smokey went into the Cabin, merged with MIB's soul, and emerged as casual Christian.
Okay, I have to admit that this is a pretty cool idea. Even if it turns out not to be true, I think it's one of those ideas that is cool whether the show ends up agreeing with it or not. Good stuff, bigmouth!
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Originally Posted by bigmouth
Hurley happened on the Cabin just before MIB's soul merged with his body. As we now know, MIB/Smokey didn't stay in the Cabin. In fact, I believe he needed Claire to break the ash circle so he could reenter the Cabin and impersonate Jacob when Locke came calling.
I remember hearing this theory from Thunderstorm, who I believe got the idea from you. This is another one of those ideas that I totally love and will be absolutely surprised if it's not the case. The timing is right, the motive is right, and the stars are in alignment. Who the heck else could have done it?!? More good stuff, man!
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetsong
What if the MIB is the island? The voice/eye/persona of the island.
This could very well be the case, because if you think about it, we don't even know what the ISLAND is, let alone the Smoke Monster. Is the Island just a hunk of dirt with cool ancient (yet extremely advanced) technology embedded in it? Or is it a giant supercomputer from the past that has become self-aware and manifests itself as the Smoke Monster? And what if Jacob is indeed a usurper who came to the Island to try to use its technology for what he believes is a good cause? Maybe he befriended the computer a long time ago (hence Jacob's comment that they're old friends), but eventually showed his true colors when he kicked the Smoke Monster out of the Temple and began bringing people to the Island to try cause his grand plan to come to fruition? I believe that when all is said and done, people will disagree about who the "bad guy" is, based on their own personal opinions about "the end justifies the means".
Last edited by Jonathan Gaskill; 02-09-2010 at 04:56 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Yes, but what about when Smokey-Locke says it? Is he telling himself? And how does he know?
Hmm, the easy answer would be to say that the Smoke Monster is either lying, or telling the truth as the others perceive it, i.e. if Richard tells Widmore that "the island chooses who the island chooses" when Kate delivers the bleeding Ben to him, then Richard equates the island and the monster because the monster appeared to Ben as his mother and told him that he could be with the Others some day which leads to Ben's care for Sayid and gets Ben shot, so Smokey-Locke is basically just saying: The island knows it because I know it because I am the Island and I was there when Richard gave the compass to Locke (that is as paradoxical as the compass itself, lol)
There might also be a more complicated answer: I remember TPTB saying that each of these flashes occured at important times in the island's history, which leads me to believe that these flashes must happen because during each of these flashes something happens that forms the future in the way it has to be to make the past happen. Or in other words, the universe uses the time flashes to course-correct. The universe of the island and its inhabitants and visitors, is cyclical, which means that at the end of each loop it all begins again. I think it was Faraday who said that you have to throw a really big rock into the stream to change its course. And the time-travelling abilities of the island make it extremely hard to change things for good, because the island, by some kind of weird chance, might always jump through time to cause exactly what is needed to happen to keep up the loop.
Maybe the Smoke Monster and Jacob lived through this loop several times already (this already-having-lived-through-this could explain young John Locke's smoke monster picture). They know what happens in this loop without their interference, they know how the characters will react, who they are, and how their own meddling changes the events of this loop. So the Smoke Monster knows that it has to give the compass to John because it has read John's mind when it took his appearance, and it knows that the island has flashed to this time for a reason - not because the island itself knows that, but because the existence of this universe requires the characters to act in a certain way.
(Something really big has to happen to break the loop - that might be what happens in the finale.)
What if the MIB is the island? The voice/eye/persona of the island.
Pretty cool idea, although Smokey/MiB was identified as a "security system" for the island, which suggests he is separate. There are a number of mythologies that use the idea of a tree guarded by a serpent, which I suspect was the inspiration for Smokey.
The serpent/Smokey may not have taken on this duty willingly. I'm guessing right now that the "loophole" that has been talked about in the show is that the gift of choice or free will is a double-edged sword. That is, sure, man has free will, but you can distort his perceptions with what you tell him to influence his choices. That's how Ben works. That's how Widmore got Keamy to influence Ben. That's how MiB/Smokey finally got Jacob (talking Ben into it.)
The question of good vs evil is, how do you choose to use the gift of free will? Will you use it to make choices for yourself, or will you use the knowledge that you have to manipulate the choices of others (the loophole)?
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1) And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2) He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3) He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. -- Revelation 20:1-3
Only new misleadings rescue us from despair after loss of old ones -- Felix Hvalibug (1866 -1930), Polish writer
I will always love you, no matter what you do. In my eyes you can never fail. I just wanna be a part of your life. -- Jack Shephard, in Lighthouse
There are a number of mythologies that use the idea of a tree guarded by a serpent, which I suspect was the inspiration for Smokey.
Very interesting link. When I was doing research on what was up with the banyan trees on the Island and their apparent ability to protect people from the Smoke Monster, I came across the concept of World Trees in various types of mythology. And in Norse mythology, the tree Yggdrasil is not only a World Tree but is also a banyan tree. And as the link you provided states, the dragon Nidhogg Nagar eats from the roots of this banyan tree. Although this doesn't explain the Smoke Monster's dislike of banyan trees (since apparently the Norse dragon likes his banyan World Tree enough to eat its roots), it does at least hint at a connection.
Perhaps whatever Jacob did to take over the Island and kick MiB out of his normal place also caused MiB to be unable to stand the banyan tree anymore. In this sense, it could be likened to the story of Adam and Eve, who, after being banished from the Garden of Eden, were thereby prevented from eating from the Tree of Life. Banishment from paradise leads to death--and the human condition is to strive to find a way to return to that paradise that we all instinctively recall from our generational memories. This striving can be seen in almost every character in Lost in one way or another, and in MiB's case, it is seen in his desire to return home--wherever that might be.
FWIW, I have some scribbled and very disorganized notes that seem to link a supporting character playing a role once played by Abaddon [and maybe performing the functions better, since he's still with us]: Frank Lapidus.
I'm connecting dots from Lapidus to ferryman to the Greek psi to the caduceus [snakes] to medicine and fertility & will try to organize the mess soon. I am watching Frank Lapidus very closely.
